Commissioner Walter Rabon || Georgia DNR Field Leaders #6

Summary

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The Origins Foundation Podcast – Episode Summary

Episode: Commissioner Walter Rabon || Georgia DNR Field Leaders #6
Date: June 25, 2026
Host: The Origins Foundation
Guest: Commissioner Walter Rabon, Georgia Department of Natural Resources (DNR)

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Episode Overview

In this engaging episode, the host sits down in Atlanta with Commissioner Walter Rabon, who leads Georgia's powerful and diverse Department of Natural Resources—often called a “super agency.” The conversation spans the agency’s unique structure, conservation funding, wildlife management, access initiatives, public engagement, future leadership, CWD management, and the daily challenges of running one of the nation’s most dynamic DNRs.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Structure and Scope of Georgia DNR

[02:56–05:41]

• Georgia’s DNR is a "super agency" created in 1973 under then-Governor Jimmy Carter.
• Five Divisions:
  • Environmental Protection
  • Wildlife Resources (includes both game and non-game species)
  • Coastal Resources
  • Law Enforcement (approx. 200 game wardens)
  • Parks and Historic Sites
• The agency is among the most diverse in any state, managing everything from barrier islands to conservation law enforcement.

Quote:

“We tout that we're probably one of the most diverse agencies in any state government with the missions that we tackle each and every day.”
— Commissioner Walter Rabon [03:28]

2. Leadership and Team Approach

[05:17–06:07]

• Rabon started his career as a game warden and emphasizes the importance of team culture.
• Division directors and “boots on the ground” staff drive DNR’s success.

Quote:

“It's having a great team. The people, the boots on the ground...They're the ones that really make it work.”
— Commissioner Rabon [05:17]

3. Commissioner Rabon’s Outdoor Roots

[09:38–10:17]

• Grew up in Conyers, Georgia, deeply connected to hunting and fishing.
• Most time spent hunting whitetail deer; proud of personal and state trophies.

4. Public Lands and Access

[10:29–11:26]

• Georgia boasts 1.2 million acres of public Wildlife Management Areas (WMAs), with near-universal hunting access and diverse game species statewide.
• Public land is broadly accessible—“within hours’ drive wherever you live.”

5. Quail Initiative and Non-Resident Hunting

[12:07–13:14]

• Strong focus on bobwhite quail conservation, working closely with passionate private landowners.
• Georgia is “the number one non-resident hunting state” for quail.

6. Conservation Funding – Georgia Outdoor Stewardship Program

[13:50–17:37]

• The Outdoor Stewardship Program (passed in 2018, active 2019):
  • 40% of sales tax from outdoor recreation equipment dedicated to conservation.
  • 83% public approval at the ballot, showing broad cross-partisan support.
  • Over $370 million invested in conservation via state and matching funds.
• Funds are used for trails, parks, habitat, benefiting both sportsmen and non-consumptive users.

Quote:

“I would challenge you to find anything on any ballot that has 83% funding on it.”
— Commissioner Rabon [15:10]

7. Access for All: Georgia Outdoor Beyond Barriers

[17:47–20:58]

• Inspired by a conversation with disabled outdoorsman Chip Madron, DNR overhauled “leftover” hunting opportunities for mobility impaired hunters.
• Program expanded to inner city youth and single-parent families, providing skills, mentorship, and opportunities to experience the outdoors.
• Includes accessible state park trails (e.g., action track chairs), “Gateway to Fishing” events, fishing rodeos even in Atlanta city parks.

Quote:

“It's more than just providing opportunities for mobility impaired individuals. Maybe it’s inner city kids... single parent families... So we're reaching out to all of those communities to make the outdoors accessible.”
— Commissioner Rabon [18:52]

8. Leadership Development and Retention

[22:48–24:48]

• DNR Leadership Academy: 10 years running, identifies and mentors future agency leaders—90% of program alumni have advanced to management roles.
• DNR Career Academy: Weeklong immersive program (rising juniors/seniors) to expose youth to conservation careers—very competitive (24 selected from 300–400+ applicants yearly).

Quote:

“We bring those rising juniors and seniors in, and we expose them to law enforcement... what a wildlife technician or fisheries technician does... We actually work them for a full week.”
— Commissioner Rabon [38:46]

9. Science-Based Management and Legislative Support

[26:14–28:10]

• Despite national “attacks” on science, DNR balances biological expertise with public expectation and strong legislative communication.
• Governor Kemp is a committed supporter—a participant and advocate for DNR’s mission.

10. Hunter Education in Georgia Schools

[29:29–30:58]

• New legislation incorporates hunter education—and broader conservation principles—into statewide school curricula.
• DNR trains teachers, offers a 10-hour course, and provides direct access for youth.

11. Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD) Response

[31:02–34:32]

• Georgia’s DNR was prepared; first CWD case in whitetail deer detected in south-central Georgia.
• Quick, transparent response: Public education, extensive sampling, and cooperation with landowners and processors.
• Containment: Only 3 of 159 counties affected, 16 cases tracked, dense local sampling, no ban on supplemental feeding.

Quote:

“It's not the end of deer hunting in Georgia... We want to sample as many as we can in a five mile radius. That's the goal.”
— Commissioner Rabon [32:40–33:04]

12. Public Engagement, Parks, and Favorite Destinations

[34:42–36:03]

• Personal favorites: Cloudland Canyon State Park (north, mountains) and Fort McAllister (coast, south of Savannah).
• State parks offer diverse and scenic outdoor experiences, from Blue Ridge to St. Simons.

13. Recruiting the Next Generation

[36:26–41:12]

• Retaining and recruiting passionate staff is universal challenge (not unique to Georgia DNR).
• Young people often unaware of conservation, law enforcement, and biology career options—more exposure is needed.

14. Misconceptions and Limitations

[41:25–43:17]

• Public often assumes DNR can “solve” invasive species issues (hogs, coyotes) or control federal duck season dates—reminder of jurisdictional limits.
• Every hunter and angler is “an expert”—divergent opinions sometimes complicate management.

15. Legacy and Leadership Vision

[43:44–44:53]

• Rabon wants his legacy to be a pipeline for strong future leadership and continued public access—"grandchildren have a place to go hunt and fish."
• Emphasizes the shared goal of sustaining Georgia’s natural resources and culture for generations.

Quote:

“I play a very small part in that in this state, but it's cool to be able to play a part of it.”
— Commissioner Rabon [44:17]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote / Context | |------------|-----------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:28 | Rabon | “We tout that we're probably one of the most diverse agencies in any state government...” | | 13:10 | Rabon | “...we had [a license fee increase] probably 10 years ago now, but before that it had been 26 years…” | | 15:10 | Rabon | “I would challenge you to find anything on any ballot that has 83% funding on it.” | | 18:52 | Rabon | “...it's more than just providing opportunities for mobility impaired...” | | 24:33 | Rabon | “Most of [the leadership academy alumni] come to us with a biological background or law enforcement. But then to watch them grow as managers... it's incredible.” | | 32:40 | Rabon | “It's not the end of deer hunting in Georgia... We want to sample as many as we can in a five mile radius.” | | 38:46 | Rabon | “We bring those rising juniors and seniors in, and we expose them to law enforcement... We actually work them for a full week.” | | 43:44 | Rabon | “It's probably the future leadership of this agency and seeing the initiatives... carried on to the next generations...” |

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Timestamps for Critical Segments

• 03:28 – DNR Structure and Divisions Explained
• 10:29 – Georgia’s Whitetail Deer & WMA Discussion
• 12:07 – Bobwhite Quail Success and Non-Resident Hunting
• 13:50 – Dedicated Conservation Funding: History & Impact
• 17:47 – Outdoor Beyond Barriers: Access for Disabled & Underrepresented Youth
• 22:48 – DNR Leadership Academy: Building Future Leaders
• 26:14 – Science Management & Legislative Partnership
• 29:29 – Hunter Ed in Georgia Schools
• 31:02 – Managing Chronic Wasting Disease
• 34:42 – Rabon’s Favorite Georgia State Parks
• 36:26 – The Challenge of Recruiting New Conservation Staff

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Tone and Atmosphere

The conversation is candid, energetic, and sometimes lighthearted, but always passionate about conservation and public service. Both host and guest reflect a deep appreciation for Georgia’s outdoors, the people who protect and steward it, and the importance of expanding access for future generations.

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Summary

This episode provides an in-depth look at the scope, challenges, and wins of Georgia DNR under Commissioner Walter Rabon: from sweeping conservation funding reforms to quail boom, CWD containment, inclusive public access, youth career programs, and the daily realities of building an effective, team-oriented agency. Rabon’s leadership style is grounded in first-hand field experience and a long-term vision—prioritizing both the land and the next generation of stewards. This conversation is both a case study and source of inspiration for anyone invested in conservation’s future.

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Transcript

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

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[Podcast Host]

Hi everyone. Today I have the great pleasure of being joined by Commissioner Walter Raybon, who is the head of Georgia's Department of Natural Resources, which is actually a super agency created by former president Jimmy Carter when he was governor of the state of Georgia and manages five different agencies, the Coastal Resources Division, Environmental Protection Division, Law Enforcement Division, Parks and Historic Site Division, and Wildlife Resources Division. So he has a tremendous amount of responsibility for all things outdoors essentially in Georgia. And I think you're going to very much enjoy the conservation discussion with this great field leader from Georgia. Thanks for joining us.

[Sponsor/Advertiser]

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[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

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[Sponsor/Advertiser]

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[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

burden to walk with. Too light and you whipping it.

[Sponsor/Advertiser]

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[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

It's, it's a. I think it's not only important, I think it's, I think it's vital. I think it's, it's just in time.

[Sponsor/Advertiser]

It's like snakes and ladders.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

You guys a climbing the ladder and

[Sponsor/Advertiser]

then somebody does something stupid and you just slide that. That is such an amazing analogy. Snakes and ladders.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

Yeah.

[Sponsor/Advertiser]

You know, ivory in, in my opinion was the plastic of its age. Okay.

[Podcast Host]

The expenses were going up.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

It goes a long way with families.

[Podcast Host]

We have families that do need it.

[Sponsor/Advertiser]

Let me close this door because I have a little wiener dog. What you. Are you laughing because I said wiener?

[Podcast Host]

I'm really glad you finished this sentence out. I'm sorry, the first. What are we doing here today?

[Sponsor/Advertiser]

You're telling the whole world.

[Podcast Host]

Okay. I am here in Atlanta, Georgia, which is one of my favorite states, I have to say. And I am in the Department of Natural Resources with the man himself, the top dog. And I'm so happy to have you on Commissioner. I'm here with Commissioner Walter Raybon who runs this what we call super agency in Georgia. And I'm happy to have you.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

We are pleased to be here. It's an honor to be here and talk about the Georgia Department of Natural Resources.

[Podcast Host]

Okay. I want to talk about your background, but before we do that, I would love for you to explain to everybody because it's a little bit different here in Georgia how the Department of Natural Resources works. People always say, oh, well, you know, it's. It's not just wildlife. There's a lot of things under DNR here. And that's back from Jimmy Carter.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

Yes, 1973.

[Podcast Host]

Okay, can you walk us through exactly what this super agency, so to speak, encompasses?

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

Sure. So we tout that we're probably one of the most diverse agencies in any state government with the missions that we tackle each and every day. So we've got five divisions within our department. We've got our Environmental Protection Division that's kind of run autonomously through another governor appointed director. But we have our Wildlife Resources Division. And that's what you mentioned as far as the hook and bullet crowd. But within that division as well, we also manage our wildlife conservation section. So all the species that we don't hunt is managed within Wildlife Resources Division.

[Podcast Host]

Okay.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

We have a Coastal Resources division. And as you would imagine, anything coastal, that's the, the barrier islands, the marshlands, the fish species inshore and offshore, the beaches and the water quality, the commercial and recreational fishing as well. We have a law enforcement division of about 200 strong of game wardens in our state. Very proud of them, probably the most versatile law enforcement officers in the nation. And then we have our state Parks and Historic sites division as well. And we manage a lot of properties throughout the state of Georgia. Very proud of them.

[Podcast Host]

That is a lot.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

That's a lot.

[Podcast Host]

I mean, that's huge. Many states, all of those different sort of agencies or departments underneath your giant agency are their own agency. I mean, how in the world do you keep up and oversee with all of that?

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

It's a. It's having a great team. We have a great team here at the commissioner's office, but we have some very, very good, best in the nation, as far as I'm concerned, of our division directors and then the people. The people, the boots on the ground that accomplish all of those missions that I mentioned. They're very passionate and dedicated to their jobs and they're the ones that really make it work.

[Podcast Host]

And you know this agency inside and out because you came up through the ranks, which is, I think, great. I love it when a director has been been there. He's been one of the Troops. And you've learned the different aspects of agency. You actually have a law enforcement background, correct?

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

I do. I started back in 1993, so almost three and a half decades ago. But I was in uniform for about 23 years in the law enforcement division.

[Podcast Host]

Okay. And. And so do you have a special affinity for.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

Absolutely not. Absolutely not.

[Podcast Host]

Is that a true answer?

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

You cannot have a favorite child. No.

[Podcast Host]

Okay, well, let's say you don't have a favorite child. I also know that you are a hunter and an angler. Let's talk about it. What'd you grow up? Where did you grow up? And when'd you grow up?

[Sponsor/Advertiser]

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[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

I grew up in Conyers, Georgia, just east tier of Atlanta. But yes, almost every waking moment, if I wasn't in school, was in the woods or on the water and wouldn't trade it for anything, and to be able to marry my passion for the outdoors with a career, it's just been a true blessing.

[Podcast Host]

What is your favorite thing to hunt?

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

Wow. I probably spend more time chasing the deer. White tail deer.

[Podcast Host]

I see those sheds up there.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

There. There are a few antlers in here that I could take credit for. Not all of them, but. Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Are those Georgia?

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

Everyone in here is George.

[Podcast Host]

Really?

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

So people cannot see this, but there are actually beautiful, beautiful mounts all the way across the. This, this office. So that's, that's pretty impressive. And you guys have an impressive deer program here.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

We do very, very proud of the, the management of the whitetail deer. And, you know, it, it's. It's all encompassing. We do have a private lands program where we assist private landowners with managing their deer populations, whatever their goals may be, if that's, you know, lots of deer or trophy deer. So we help with that. We also are very proud of our 1.2 million acres of wildlife management areas around this.

[Podcast Host]

That's a lot.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

That's a lot of property and that's

[Podcast Host]

a huge blessing to the citizens living in the state to have that much public access.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

Yeah, you have to travel outside of Georgia before you really appreciate and realize the blessing that we do have in our state. You know, every single Georgian and of course we have a lot of non resident hunters as well. But you know, you have public land accessible to you within hours drive wherever you live in our state.

[Podcast Host]

Are all of the WMAs open to hunting?

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

They are.

[Podcast Host]

Okay, are different ones, different species? Are they all open to all the species in the areas? How does it work in Georgia?

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

Of course, you know, as we were talking earlier, a huge geographic spans. When you look from the mountains to the sea, almost all of our management areas have a really good deer population. A number of them have great turkey populations as well. You get into southwest Georgia and some of the middle Georgia and you, you know, quail is king.

[Podcast Host]

Well, that's my favorite to come over and hunt.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

So we, we have a, a broad range of game species.

[Podcast Host]

Do you guys manage for quail here?

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

We do. We have a bobwhite quail initiative where we work with private landowners as well as those adjacent to some of our public lands.

[Podcast Host]

Because Georgia seems to have had a lot more success at. I don't know if the word protecting is the right word, but at ensuring you have continuous quail populations than some of the other states. I grew up hunting quail in Oklahoma and I mean, it's all but disappeared in so many states. And yet you guys still have a really strong quail population here.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

We do. And that's, you know, a partnership again with the private landowners. A lot of our private landowners have a passion for the quail. They don't even care about the deer and the turkeys. Of course the deer and the turkeys benefit from managing fork well in that early succession habitat. But no, it, it's, it's incredible to see what that little bird brings to Georgia. We tout that we're the, the number one non resident hunting state. So lots of people come from all over the country.

[Podcast Host]

I'm one of them.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

To chase those quail birds.

[Podcast Host]

Yes, I'm one of them and I apprec opportunity and I appreciate the fact that you haven't raised the non resident license fee so high that it's prohibitive to those of us who want to come over.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

And that's something that we struggle with every day. The cost of management has gone up so much exponentially over the last decade and we're very proud that our license fees have not. We did have an increase of probably 10 years ago now, but before that it had been 26 years before we had gone up on our hunting license. So.

[Podcast Host]

So speaking of funding management within the state, there was an initiative that, that took a lot of years to get it across the finish line and finally got the dedicated conservation funding passed here in Georgia. And it is an incredible, incredible program that has already seen a lot of successes. Can you just talk generally about that and what that enables the state to do?

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

Yes, the Georgia Outdoor Stewardship Program is a great program for all things conservation, not just hunting or fishing, but anything outdoor recreation wise. So it was passed in 2018, but was enacted in 2019. And since that date, I've got some numbers that are really incredible that I want to share with you on that. So Anyway, we get 40% of the sales and use tax from outdoor recreation equipment.

[Podcast Host]

40%?

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

40%.

[Podcast Host]

Okay.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

That's high dedicated funding to conservation.

[Podcast Host]

And I bet not a single person buying that equipment has a problem with where that funding is going.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

So that was put on a referendum and in 2018, it passed with 83% approval rating.

[Podcast Host]

So that's how it finally got across the finish line.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

It is. I would challenge you to find anything on any ballot that has 83% funding on it. But we had. Let me find these numbers because you need to know this. Since. Since 2019, the state has invested 142 million state dollars with those. Those tax funds.

[Podcast Host]

142 million.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

142 million. The matching funds that came to that

[Podcast Host]

were

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

237 million in match. So if you add that together, we're over $370 million that has gone to conservation needs in our state.

[Podcast Host]

No wonder you have so many quail. Yeah, that's right. And turkeys. Yes. And all the. And beautiful parts and trails and blue

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

water trails and green spaces and all the things that. That goes to fund.

[Podcast Host]

So there are some other states right now trying to pass similar models, and there's pushback and from not necessarily the general public, but from legislators. What would you tell legislators in other states that are maybe on the fence about whether this would be a good program to pass in the form of dedicated funding? And why does it need to be dedicated?

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

Without the dedicated funding, we rely solely on, you know, hunters and anglers dollars and their license fees to pay for conservation needs and in any state. So it's critical to have that, particularly with all the growth and Georgia's growing like wildfire. And that's good.

[Podcast Host]

You're one of the, if not the fastest growing state in the country. Right.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

We could be, yeah, we could be

[Podcast Host]

up at the top for sure.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

So what's really cool about conservation to me is it crosses the aisle. I don't care which party you, you lean towards. All of our users appreciate the conservation investment that we make.

[Podcast Host]

Well, and because you don't restrict those funds only to hunters, you also spread them out across conservation projects that people pro, the people who are recreators, bird watchers, hikers can use. I can imagine that it's just an insanely popular program around here.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

It's very popular. And again, the people are putting their money where they want to recreate as well. So we're using their tax dollars for projects that directly benefit them and provide access to them.

[Podcast Host]

And that funding has only increased. Right. Because people are buying more and more and more.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

That is correct. That is correct.

[Podcast Host]

That sounds like an amazing win for the state and I hope other states follow suit and pass something similar.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

I would love to meet with them and talk with them.

[Podcast Host]

So you have another program that is a major priority for you. And I love this program, Georgia Outdoor Beyond Barriers. Yes, talk to me about this because this is kind of novel.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

So it's a pretty cool program the way that it came about. And you know, we, one of our strategic goals in the agency is to provide access to all Georgians. Not, not just, you know, those of us that can walk through that door, but the people that wheel through that door. So a young man named Chip Madron, who was a cancer survivor, caught me one day on his farm and he said, commissioner, you know, we, we get the leftovers. And I said, what do you mean, Chip? And we've always provided outdoor activities for those with disabilities. But he said we can do better. And he was right. So came back to this office, pulled out our hunting regs and if you looked, all of the hunts were after the Ruth or after the peak times to be hunting whatever species it was

[Podcast Host]

for those like special and disability.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

That's right, for the disability hunts. And I couldn't have agreed with Chip any more than, than what he had told me. So we created that and it, it's more than just providing opportunities for mobility impaired individuals. It's, you know, maybe it's inner city kids that don't know how to tie a fish hook on a line. So we provide them the training that they need to be able to fish or hunt. If you think about single parent families and how strapped they are a lot of times for the resources that it takes to get outdoors or the opportunities. So we're reaching out to all of those communities to make the outdoors accessible.

[Podcast Host]

I mean, okay, I just got goosebumps because that is such a barrier for children, especially entering any outdoor pursuits if they are not born into a family that has parents who hunt, grandparents who hunt people to take them. I mean, our inner city youth are, are. There are so many problems that they encounter on a day to day basis, and they don't have these opportunities to get out. So how are you connecting your agency with those? Like, can you give us some specifics? How does that work?

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

So we do programming, um, and it's, you know, it's not just hunting and fishing, it's the hiking as well. So me on many of our state parks, we've purchased the action track chairs with some partnerships like the Amy Copeland foundation to just get people out on our hiking trails and to make those trails available to accommodate those track chairs. You know, hunting and fishing, if you've never done it, like you said, can be intimidating. Where do I start? What. What gun do I buy? What kind of fishing pole do I need? What bait do I use? So we've got programming from our staff that go around and hold events, fishing events or hunting events, that teach people how to do that. More times than not, when people leave, they have a mentor that wears a DNR uniform that they can call and ask questions later. But it's just been incredible to watch this program grow.

[Podcast Host]

I love that so much. What do you call your fishing events? Do you have, Is it a specific, like kids fishing event or does it.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

We have kids fishing events and I should be able to call it off the top of my head, but I cannot.

[Podcast Host]

If people want to find out about gateway to fishing. Gateway to fishing.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

Gateway to fishing.

[Podcast Host]

Okay, I love that. Can they go to the website to sign up for news or find out where?

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

Absolutely.

[Podcast Host]

Okay.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

The Georgia DNR website, All of our divisions have their own website. And then go outdoorsgeorgia.com will also get them there.

[Podcast Host]

Okay. Okay, perfect. Because so many people don't even realize that they have fishing access as close to them as they do all of these State Parks and WMAs and places to go fish are, I mean, can literally be within 15 minutes and they don't know what's available.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

Exactly. You know, even in Atlanta, where. Where most of the parks have some kind of water feature, and I'm talking of city parks, right. You know, we, we provide those fishing rodeos and gateways to fishing events in those parks. So yeah, it's literally in their backyard.

[Podcast Host]

The fishing rodeos in the city have Got to be very popular.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

Very, very popular.

[Podcast Host]

I know they are done in other states. I have actually helped participate with some on the Gulf coast and one of the first ones I did, we literally had thousands more kids show up than we were expecting.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

That's usually what happens with.

[Podcast Host]

They were so excited.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

That's a lot of worms and crickets.

[Podcast Host]

A lot of worms and crickets. And a lot of single parents, like you said, mama is coming out and bringing their kids that say, look, I. I don't know how to fish. And so, so happy to have the help from somebody that can help teach their kid, you know, how to thread hook.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

Absolutely. And it's rewarding for us. Again, our people are passionate about passing that on to the next generation.

[Podcast Host]

Well, and you're making future sportsmen.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

Absolutely.

[Podcast Host]

State.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

So there's a selfish reason.

[Podcast Host]

It'll. It'll pay off in spades. Speaking of training future sportsmen and leaders, you have started a leadership academy.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

Yes.

[Podcast Host]

Can you talk, talk to me about that.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

We're in our 10th year.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, it's 10 years.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

10 years. Our DNR leadership academy where we take the future leaders of this agency and other agencies as well. But we, we provide them some kind of behind the doors training on stuff like budget administration, that kind of thing, as well as leadership theories and how to get to that next step in their leadership journeys.

[Podcast Host]

So is the goal of that to take these rising stars, so to speak, or people that you look and you say look, that these people have a lot of potential and ultimately keep them in Georgia rather than maybe losing them to another state's wildlife agency?

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

Absolutely.

[Podcast Host]

Because we know that happens all the time.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

Yes, it does. And hey, we're very proud if any of our employees and our team members, if they find themselves in leadership role in another state, we're happy for them.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

Because they're carrying our culture with them and the lessons that they've learned over the years with them. But it's very, very rewarding to see young supervisors and young managers grow in their leadership abilities. Most of them come to us, you know, with a biological background or training in law enforcement. But then to watch them grow as managers and able to manage the people under them, it's incredible.

[Podcast Host]

So is it working? I mean, you started it 10 years ago. Have you seen some of these people that started out in the leadership academy a decade ago? Are they in leadership now?

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

Yes, most are. Okay. You see, I think we did a little assessment a couple of years ago and at that time, I think 90% of the attendance had been Promoted to mid level managers or higher.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

So no, it's working. We're seeing the dividends at this point in time. And look, it's, you know, 10 years in, there's no telling what it looks like 20 years from now and how those, those people grow.

[Podcast Host]

How given the different. Do you call them agencies under your agency Divisions? Divisions. Given the, the breadth of the issues facing the different divisions, how do you ensure good interagency coordination and that everybody kind of keeps their eye on the same prize? Like do you, what do you guys do to.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

It's, it's a team approach.

[Podcast Host]

Okay.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

So they've got very diverse missions day in and day out, but through copious amounts of communication. And that's from the commissioner's office but the, the rewarding part to us is to see the divisions communicating amongst themselves while when they leave us out of it. And the silos, there was once a time where there were silos for each division. They pretty much been broken down. So you we see now is the division directors looking for other support from their other, their sister divisions and how they can support each other. And so many good stories of, you know, things that are accomplished without having to tell people. And it's just through communication and that team building.

[Podcast Host]

Right. So it seems like across the country in general science has been under attack and science based management decisions. And sometimes you guys take a lot of criticism for making really good conservation decisions because maybe the public doesn't understand why do you find that a challenge? How do you handle it? How do you keep, especially from the wildlife division perspective, how do you keep science as a big part of the component? Do you.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

It is a challenge. Again, we've got the subject matter experts in our state of you know, what is the best way to manage a quail population. But then you get the social science into it as well. As far as, you know, what do our customers expect? What do they want to see from those, that scientific approach to management. So it's a balance day in and day out. And I think that we accomplish that also through great communication with our partners, with the General assembly, through the governor's office as well. It's a holistic approach to managing any, any of our natural resources.

[Podcast Host]

And thankfully you have a very strong sportsman right now in, in the governor. Yes, Governor Kemp is, I think he was just named Governor of the Year by Congressional Sportsman's foundation, amongst other organizations. We've gotten a lot of accolades lately. Is that so beneficial to have that support from the governor's office, from someone who understands this natural resource management, it's invaluable.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

Again, Governor Kemp has been a great governor for the state of Georgia in general, but when it comes to the sportsmen, sportswomen of Georgia, he's an advocate. He's a participant, more so than anything, which again, he, he understands and appreciates the work that this agency does.

[Podcast Host]

You are in the middle of a really, I'm going to call it a hot legislative session. They're all hot. They're. They're all hectic. And we've been down at the Capitol for a couple days now and seen just the flurry of activity bills flow. And one of them, of course, is your budget. But aside from just you and you guys have to pass it year in, year out to keep things going and keep things fund. Are there any bills right now that you think are especially great wildlife bills or maybe some you think are maybe not so great?

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

They're all great bills.

[Podcast Host]

Well, now, I know you're fibbing. No, you do not have to answer the not great bills if you don't want to. But, but yeah. Is there anything like that the public should just have on their radar, good or bad?

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

This is a rare session where we didn't have any administrative bills this year, but there are a number of bills that affect sportsmen and sportswomen, and we've got a team that tracks those bills day in and day out. But it goes back to those partners, and I would certainly consider the members of the Georgia General Assembly a partner to dnr because in large part, they all support this mission in some shape, form or fashion, whether that's on the park side or just the trail side or, you know, the sportsman as well.

[Podcast Host]

So they just passed the hunter education curriculum. Yes, in schools. That's a huge one. Speaking of supporting dnr, because you guys will be the ones going in and offering those courses, right?

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

We, we. In certain instances, it gives us the ability. We would be the ones that could go in there and train teachers so that teachers would be hunter education instructors.

[Podcast Host]

Okay, so they can do it that way as well.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

That's exactly right. No, it's a. It's a whole host of opportunities to put that back in the curriculum in our school systems.

[Podcast Host]

Do you think that you are going to have a large number of schools sign up for this option?

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

I certainly hope so. I mean, you know, not. Not only with the hunter education side of it, but stuff like gun safety and conservation and how to be a good steward and just to appreciate the natural resources that are around you. You know, whether you use them or not.

[Podcast Host]

So all of that is going to be rolled into this curriculum. It's not just straight up hunter safety.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

That's correct.

[Podcast Host]

Okay, so it's total conservation. Other things. Do you guys envision it being a semester course or a year course? Are you still working on all that right now?

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

I'd say we'd probably right now in Georgia it's a 10 hour course. So whether that's done over a quarter, if they do it in just a couple of days, either way. But, but again, it gets us in the school system to educate on what we do. Gets us in the school system to educate about our resources and, and how they can enjoy them.

[Podcast Host]

Well, congratulations on that.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

That's a huge one.

[Podcast Host]

That.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

Yes.

[Podcast Host]

You know, we've, we've talked about different species, we've talked about quail, we mentioned deer a little bit. Unfortunately, you guys have had that. And I just discovered recently have had some positive CWDs in the case. But you already had a management plan in place. Ready. Right. Because you had seen what was happening in neighboring states. And so can you tell me about how that has been implementing that management plan?

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

And surely, you know, we were holding our breath for a number of years and kind of thought that it wasn't an if, but when. And our team within the Wildlife Resources division for the last several years have been educating our hunters that, you know, this isn't the end of deer hunting if or when it hits our state. And once it did, once we did get the first confirmed case in south central Georgia, we, we went down there, did an enormous amount of sampling using the landowners for that, so that we maintained their support. We had public, public hearings where we went in and educated people. What is cwd? What you can expect great turnouts for that. And the support that they've given our technicians and biologists in managing this has been great. We have, I think we're up to 16 cases. Confirmed cases. They're still fairly localized in a three county area.

[Podcast Host]

That's what I was going to ask. How many counties? Three. Three is not bad. I mean, how many counties total are

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

159 counties in Georgia and we've got three counties with confirmed cases in them.

[Podcast Host]

So the containment rate at this point is really good.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

It seems to be. It seems to be. And we're hopeful that it'll continue to be. But if not again, it's not the end of deer hunting in Georgia.

[Podcast Host]

Right. And in fact, if anything, it means more, more deer can be taken.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

That's, that's right. That's Right.

[Podcast Host]

We need samples in terms of how the management plan works. What, what is the active sort of. Do you prohibit feeding in those counties or what is the situation?

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

No, we, we haven't cut off supplemental feeding, but basically to. For us to get the numbers in to see what the spread is, we want to sample as many as we can in a five mile radius. So that's the goal. And if that's in deer season, we're using hunter taking samples if it's outside of deer season. And again, we're using the landowners to help us get those samples. Basically, we're just trying to contain the disease. So we've put sampling sites up. I think we've got 30 something sampling sites in those three towns.

[Podcast Host]

A lot.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

It's a lot. So people can, you know, leave. Leave the sample in the freezer. We get back to them to let them know if their deer was positive or not. We've educated the taxidermist and the deer processors in those areas as well, just to make them aware. In a lot of cases, they're helping us collect samples as well.

[Podcast Host]

Are you thinking thinning the herds at all in those. Not counties yet?

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

Not really Trying to thin the herd. Of course, where the current samples are is an agricultural area. So if the deer population could probably be thin. So.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Overabundance. So maybe the farmers will take matters into their own hands.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

Absolutely.

[Podcast Host]

And you guys have a program with. A depredation program with farmers, right?

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

We do crop depredation.

[Podcast Host]

Okay. They can sign up for that.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

They can on their phones now. So we're very, we're very proud of our technological advance.

[Podcast Host]

Really.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

So a farmer, if he's having issues, can. Can get on his app.

[Podcast Host]

Okay.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

And apply for a permit. Get that permit and then go protect his crops that night.

[Podcast Host]

Okay. If anybody is coming to Georgia and has not visited one of your state parks, do you have. I actually won't even make you say one because it is such a diverse state. I love your mountains up north.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

Yes.

[Podcast Host]

And I love your coast. I mean, there's no maybe prettier place on the planet than that St. Simon's Sea island area. But I also love the Blue Ridge Mountains. So, I mean, so you kind of have it all here. If you could pick two and say, go to these.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

So.

[Podcast Host]

Or. Or even one if you've got one

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

that's your favorite in the mountains. Cloudland Canyon State Park. Cloudland, just outside of Chattanooga.

[Podcast Host]

I know exactly where that is.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

Beautiful views, great hiking trails, great cabins.

[Podcast Host]

Okay.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

New cabins up there. So you can't go for a day. We need you to stay for at least a weekend, a long weekend.

[Podcast Host]

Okay.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

And then along the coast, Fort McAllister is probably one of my favorites.

[Sponsor/Advertiser]

Okay.

[Podcast Host]

What's that near?

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

It's right outside of Richmond Hill, just south of Savannah.

[Podcast Host]

Okay.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

All of our cabins are built up on stilts. Have an incredible campground that's kind of out on a private island with a causeway to it.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, pretty great. That sounds like a five resort.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

Yes. Great access to the creeks and the sounds and the coast.

[Podcast Host]

How far away from Savannah is it, would you say?

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

It's probably 30 miles south of Savannah.

[Podcast Host]

I mean, I love going to Savannah.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

Yes.

[Podcast Host]

Might need to check that out.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

Absolutely. We encourage it.

[Podcast Host]

You really do have such a plethora of beautiful places to go in the state. What would you say the biggest challenge or maybe even the biggest surprise since you took over as commissioner? What, what. What is the biggest issue and challenge facing you?

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

Probably. Probably the recruitment and retention of staff. And that's not. That's not unique to Georgia DNR or any DNR is the same thing that people that have their own private businesses have as well.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

Getting that next generation of the workforce here is a. Is a challenge. I mean, it's no secret to anyone listening that, you know, wildlife agencies typically don't pay the most money.

[Podcast Host]

People do it because they love it.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

They do it because they have a passion for what they're doing. And so it's identifying those individuals and bringing them to. To Georgia DNR and. And making them create a career.

[Podcast Host]

So many people do have a passion for the outdoors. And we were talking about this on another podcast a week or so ago, how so many young people aren't even aware that careers like this exist, that careers in either law enforcement or wildlife biologists, that they have that option when they grow up. So I think that that's another bonus to you guys going into schools, teaching these courses. Then, you know, if that could be a component and say, hey, look, you. You know, this could be a future career for you.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

Well, and we. We have a DNR career academy that I mentioned. Yes.

[Podcast Host]

So what?

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

Yes. So for. I think this will. This year will be our third year doing this. But we. We realized that gap and said, you know, when somebody has gone through college, they think they know what we do day in and day out, or maybe they come to us out of college and they get there and they say, you know, I wanted to work with dolphins as a marine biologist, and I hadn't even seen a dolphin. So we created a DNR career academy about three years ago where we bring incoming 11th and 12th graders to us for a week. We start at one of our management areas in middle Georgia, but it's. And it's not a summer camp. A lot of. Lot of parents think that it's a summer camp, but we bring those rising juniors and seniors in, and we expose them to law enforcement. We expose them to what a wildlife technician or a fisheries technician does. We expose them to what a park manager does. We actually work them for a full week. And then midweek we go down to the coast so that they can see the coast and, you know, the various missions that we carry out down there as well, whether that's working with sea turtles or whether that's saltwater patrols on a law enforcement boat.

[Podcast Host]

Okay, that is so cool. And I cannot imagine that most people in Georgia know that they can send their 11th and 12th graders. I mean, what 11th and 12th grader would not want to do that?

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

Exactly.

[Podcast Host]

That likes the outdoors.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

And we look at it as a

[Podcast Host]

win week or multiple weeks.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

It's one week.

[Podcast Host]

One week. That's all we have to get in.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

You apply, we actually interview them. We want it to be like a job interview. Much like when they come to work for us, what that would look like

[Podcast Host]

then do they pay or is it free?

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

It's funded through our foundation.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, nice.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

So it's. It's a great opportunity. Again, we want to catch them before they say, you know, I want to be this when I grow up.

[Podcast Host]

And before they go to college and get sucked into just a general finance

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

degree and they go home with mentors that, you know, they can. We trade phone numbers with them. We help. We have a college night so that they can. We help them figure out their educational path to get to be a marine biologist.

[Podcast Host]

So hypothetically, if somebody lived in Mississippi and had a couple of signs.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

Yeah. Hypothetically.

[Podcast Host]

Hypothetically, they should apply to the Georgia program.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

Yes. Question. Is their mom going to be able to come to Georgia?

[Podcast Host]

I mean, mom. Mom may have to come with them, but. But that is so fantastic that you guys are doing that. I mean, I think that that should be done in every state and probably expanded. So, I mean, I. Do you have to turn people away?

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

Oh, we do. You know, we. I think we take. Bring in 24 young men and young women each summer. We probably have three to 400 people that apply for.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, my gosh. Okay, so how can we get this expanded for you guys?

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

We need money. Money and time.

[Podcast Host]

Need to get the legislature to put some money in for make this permanent.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

The. The foundation, again, is very supportive of this agency day in and day out. But the staff time is the challenge for us.

[Podcast Host]

Right. Having people that can actually take the time off from their regular jobs.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

Exactly. They all have full time jobs. So to be able to. To stop what they're doing for a week is a challenge that is such.

[Podcast Host]

And that's. I had no idea that you guys had that. And I really think that's pretty phenomenal. So.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

Wow. It's a win, win for us. But either either we get great employees from that or we help young men and women decide, hey, I don't want to be a wildlife technician.

[Podcast Host]

Right, Right.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

Maybe they want to be an accountant.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

And that's better than them coming and us training them for three or four years and then they make that decision.

[Podcast Host]

Right. My husband thought he wanted to be a veterinarian until he went and served as a vet tech one summer. Right. Got that out of his system real fast, I imagine. Okay. What is the biggest misconception about dnr? That people think you guys can control, that you're in charge of, that maybe you're not, and that you're like,

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

yeah, well, when it comes to invasive species, a lot of times they think that, you know, we can create a program or do something that gets rid of coyotes or armadillos or feral hogs, as we've been talking about in depth. We have the same challenges that any private landowner has with that. So there's not a magic wand to wildlife populations. So that. That's a misconception that, you know, maybe we need a longer hunting season. The. One of the challenges is every hunter and every angler is an expert, right?

[Podcast Host]

Yes.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

And may not see all sides of any coin. So that. That's always a challenge is how often

[Podcast Host]

do you get asked to move the duck season dates regular?

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

Especially. Especially we're sitting here at the end of February and all the ducks are showing up in Georgia now.

[Podcast Host]

Here they come.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

Yes.

[Podcast Host]

Right. But that's not you guys. Let's just put a reminder out once again. That would be the Fish and Wildlife Service.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

That's correct.

[Podcast Host]

And you have no control over the season dates.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

They give us a season window.

[Podcast Host]

Right?

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

Yes.

[Podcast Host]

Right. And I assume you've probably pushed it as late as you can.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

We do push it. We do.

[Podcast Host]

How was the duck season here?

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

I'm told it was very good.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. I heard people were killing them over here.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

They did. I only got out once and had a great morning shoot, but, yeah, I have a lot of friends that. That did very well.

[Podcast Host]

Good, good. Well, we like to hear it. Well, one final question. When you look back on your career here and if you can say, I will be content that I have accomplished this, or maybe it's a few things. What. What is that? What do you want to accomplish, as in this very powerful position. Because it is a very powerful position in, in Georgia.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

It's probably the future leadership of this agency and seeing the initiatives like we've spoke about for the last few minutes, seeing those carried on to next to the next generations, it's the same things that you probably would like to see out of DNR in the future for you, and that's that your grandchildren have a place to go and hunt and fish and that the culture's carried on, that the support for the natural resources is carried on. So play. I play very small part in that in this state, but it's cool to be able to play a part of it.

[Podcast Host]

Well, I don't think your part is small, and I think you're doing a very, very good job. People just constantly are complimenting you on your leadership. Leadership. So thank you for that. Thank you for doing what is an extraordinarily difficult public service to the community and coordinating all of the different divisions, because I honestly cannot imagine how difficult that must be. And you seem to always be happy and laid back and you're congenial and your staff loves you, which, that's also another miracle.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

They might. They might not agree with you on the. The happy and congenial part, but. No, we have a good time that way.

[Podcast Host]

All the time.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

That's right. We have a good time.

[Podcast Host]

Well, good luck with everything. If there's anything we can ever do for you, please let us know. And honestly, just keep up the good work.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

Thank you so much.

[Podcast Host]

Thank you for being here today.

[Commissioner Walter Raybon]

Yes.

[Sponsor/Advertiser]

Well, that's it for today. I appreciate you listening. As always. Leave a review, share it with your friends, and most importantly, do what's right to convey the truth around hunting.