Episode 545 - Glen Thurston || Pain, Suicide, And Guns

Summary

Podcast Summary: Blood Origins – Episode 545: Glen Thurston || Pain, Suicide, And Guns

Host: Mike Axelrod
Guest: Glen Thurston
Release Date: March 18, 2025

---

Introduction

In Episode 545 of Blood Origins, host Mike Axelrod engages in a profound and heartfelt conversation with Glen Thurston. The episode delves deep into the intertwining issues of mental health, firearms ownership, and the hunting community's perception of emotional vulnerability. Glen shares his personal journey, the challenges he faced with mental health, and the impact of firearms legislation in New Zealand.

---

Glen's Personal Journey

Early Struggles with Mental Health

Glen begins by recounting his lifelong battle with depression. From an early age, Glen grappled with mental health issues, which were exacerbated by heavy alcohol consumption. At 18, while living in Australia, Glen made a "serious attempt at taking his life" and sought help, though he resisted medication due to past negative experiences with his father's treatment.

Quote:
"[02:49] Glen Thurston: It brings awareness to non hunters that it's more than just killing Animals..."

Burnout and Seeking Help

Fast forward to 2016, Glen found himself burnt out from managing a business in New Zealand. His alcohol consumption worsened, leading him to a point where he recognized the need for change. With the support of his wife, Glen sought medical assistance, resulting in him becoming "eight years sober."

Quote:
"[16:17] Mike Axelrod: None of your mates in your circles in 2016 knew this was happening with you?"
"[16:22] Glen Thurston: No, I didn't talk..."

Firearms License Revocation

In 2019, amidst his ongoing mental health journey, Glen faced an unexpected challenge. During a counseling session, he was questioned about his firearms license—a protocol introduced following the Christchurch massacre. Despite Glen's stability and clearances from his GP and psychiatrist, his firearms license was abruptly revoked, stripping him of his ability to hunt and use firearms, which were integral to his mental well-being.

Quote:
"[25:29] Mike Axelrod: So you took every bullet and every gun you had."
"[25:32] Glen Thurston: Everything, everything I had in my safe was taken..."

---

Impact of Losing Firearms License

Emotional and Social Effects

Losing his firearms license had a devastating impact on Glen's life. Hunting was not just a hobby but a crucial outlet for his mental health. The revocation severed his primary coping mechanism, leading him into deeper emotional turmoil.

Quote:
"[26:55] Mike Axelrod: So what did they say? Like, what was the..."
"[27:02] Glen Thurston: They said to me, what's going to happen is I'm going to hear from an inspector..."

Stigma and Mental Health in the Hunting Community

Glen highlights a pervasive stigma within the hunting community that discourages emotional expression. The macho culture often prevents hunters from seeking help, fearing repercussions like license revocation.

Quote:
"[37:05] Glenn Thurston: Seeking help and especially in hunting, like it's a very stoic sport and talking feelings is not really part of your hunting trip."

---

Firearms Legislation in New Zealand

Changes Post-Christchurch

Following the tragic Christchurch mosque shootings, New Zealand implemented stricter firearms regulations. Glen critiques the inconsistent and often invasive processes that have left many responsible firearm owners unjustly penalized.

Quote:
"[22:17] Mike Axelrod: So in 2019, when you're doing this, has Christchurch happened already?"
"[22:21] Glenn Thurston: Yes. There was a fella... he went and shot up two mosques..."

Firearm Safety Authority

Glen suggests that the Firearm Safety Authority (FSA) should operate independently from the police to rebuild trust among firearm owners. He emphasizes the need for fair and transparent processes that differentiate between genuine threats and responsible owners facing mental health challenges.

Quote:
"[48:16] Glenn Thurston: If no one says anything and no one says there's a Problem, they don't think there's a problem."
"[48:16] Glenn Thurston: [...] they need to be aside. A bit like our road transport."

---

Mental Hunts Organization

Purpose and Goals

Glen founded Mental Hunts in New Zealand to address the mental health crisis within the hunting community. The organization aims to destigmatize seeking help and provide support systems for firearm owners struggling with mental health issues.

Quote:
"[13:35] Glenn Thurston: That's correct, yeah."
"[38:23] Mike Axelrod: What do you say to that person? [...]"
"[38:52] Glenn Thurston: [...] if you have a friend that's not doing well, suggest storing their guns for them while they get the help."

Initiatives and Outreach

Mental Hunts conducts various initiatives, including training programs for firearms license holders, hunting trips integrated with mental health discussions, and collaborative efforts with organizations like Bushnell to support conservation and mental well-being.

Quote:
"[50:51] Glenn Thurston: [...] we've got a hunting show with people that have had stories and we're just telling their stories out on the hill..."

---

Recommendations and Solutions

Self Surrender Option

Glen advocates for the self-surrender of firearms licenses as a proactive measure for those experiencing mental health challenges. This approach allows individuals to retain some access to firearms under supervision while seeking help, reducing the fear of punitive actions.

Quote:
"[42:15] Mike Axelrod: Oh, that's the new law."
"[42:17] Glenn Thurston: Yeah, but with the self surrender you just surrender it and you reapply at any Time..."

Mental Health Training for License Holders

To prevent such crises, Glen proposes implementing mental health training programs tailored for firearm owners. These programs would educate license holders on recognizing mental health issues and encourage seeking help without fear of losing their licenses.

Quote:
"[42:15] Mike Axelrod: [...] that's the biggest, that's the biggest thing here is that people are afraid..."
"[43:42] Glenn Thurston: [...] we need to have the ability to not have anyone fearing getting help for any reason. It's borderline discrimination."

Support Systems within Hunting Community

Creating strong support networks within the hunting community is essential. Glen emphasizes the importance of open conversations and peer support to foster an environment where hunters feel safe to express vulnerability.

Quote:
"[37:01] Mike Axelrod: [...] there's a stigma tied to males..."
"[38:52] Glenn Thurston: [...] if you have a friend that's not doing well, suggest storing their guns for them while they get the help."

---

Conclusion and Resources

Glen Thurston's story sheds light on the intricate relationship between mental health and firearms ownership. His advocacy through Mental Hunts seeks to create a balanced approach that supports individuals without compromising community safety.

For those seeking more information or wishing to reach out to Glen, the following resources are available:

• Website: MentalHunts.co.nz
• YouTube Channel: Hunting show featuring real-life stories
• Social Media: Instagram and Facebook pages for updates and support
• Contact Email: Available on the Mental Hunts website

Final Quote:
"[50:51] Glenn Thurston: [...] check out the YouTube channel. And we've also got a frequently asked questions that we're going to constantly keep updated with the facts."

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

1. Glen Thurston at [09:05]:
   "Yeah, 100%. And, you know, I think the other thing is I'm one story of many people that have been through this situation..."

2. Mike Axelrod at [16:17]:
   "None of your mates in your circles in 2016 knew this was happening with you?"

3. Glen Thurston at [22:22]:
   "No, no, no. And I don't really. Yeah. I've got no fear of revocations..."

4. Glen Thurston at [26:55]:
   "Everything, everything I had in my safe was taken and was Noted on a document."

5. Glen Thurston at [34:24]:
   "Exactly. I'm jumping the gun here. But I had a meeting with the Ministerial Arms Advisory Group..."

---

Episode Takeaway:
Glen Thurston's candid discussion highlights the critical need for compassionate mental health support within the firearms-owning community. By addressing stigma and advocating for balanced legislation, Mental Hunts strives to ensure that individuals receive the help they need without undue fear of losing their livelihoods or passions.

---

For more episodes and detailed discussions, visit BloodOriginsInc.com.

Transcript

[Midway USA]

Hunting is not easy. It never has been. It takes dedication, motivation, a lot of patience and quality gear. If you manage a food plot, put up stands, or need just one more game camera, we can help. @midwayusa.com we opened our doors in 1977 and continue to put customers first by offering super fast same day shipping for just about everything. For the outdoors, go to midway USA.com.

[Glenn]

Want to plan your next fishing trip without the hassle? FishingBooker.com is the best way to find and book a fishing charter anywhere in the world. Whether you're chasing trophy fish or just looking for a family day on the water, fishingbooker makes it simple, fast and secure. With thousands of experienced guides, verified reviews and 247 customer support, FishingBooker takes the guesswork out of planning. Visit fishingbooker.com and book your trip today. Fishing Booker Fishing trips made easy Glenn.

[Mike Axelrod]

Thurston has started this organization in New Zealand called Mental Hunts. It's got nothing to do with doing absolutely crazy hunts. It's got to do with mental health. And this podcast really dives into Glenn's story. I asked him before we got on, I said, are you sure you want to tell all of it? And he said, yep, no problems, I'll tell all of it. And really it comes down to a couple of things. Number one, it comes down to being willing to admit that you have a problem and checking that box on that firearms license, specifically here in New Zealand, to say, yes, I have a problem. Well, when Glenn did, caused all sorts of strife. They took away his guns, they revoked his license, the whole kid and caboodle that you'll listen to. But it's also a much larger question really, facing the male hunting community space, which is you're not supposed to be emotional, you're not supposed to have feelings, you're not supposed to talk about your feelings, you're not supposed to be dealing with any mental health. You're supposed to be strong, right? You're supposed to be, you know, hard. You're supposed to do all these things and that's not the case. And so I wanted to have Glenn on to talk specifically about it and give his point of view. And I know that somebody that's going to be listening to this is going to see it and seek help for themselves and realize that they have to do something. So enjoy. So there's a reason why I started Blood Origins, and that reason is simple, is that I wanted to convey the truth about hunting.

[Glenn Thurston]

It brings awareness to non hunters that it's more than just killing Animals. How do I start it, Brittany? My name. Does my hair look okay?

[Mike Axelrod]

My name is Mike Axelrod. Start again. Yeah, I hated it, too. Braxton, you said something in the card of me. You said that you were living on borrowed time. There's a perception around who hunters are, what we're supposed to be. And a feminist that works for a nonprofit that is a hunter that has only eaten wild game for the last 20 years is likely not the thing that people think about when it comes to a hunter. All right, so before we get started, maybe you would agree with me, Glenn, in this statement, but if you have not listened to The Honorable Nicole McKee's podcast from New Zealand, I would pause this podcast right now and go to that podcast and I will find out exactly the number of the podcast whilst I'm talking to you, because I could multitask. And we want you to go and listen to that. That's number five. 31. 531.

[Glenn Thurston]

Jeez.

[Mike Axelrod]

Probably done like 700 of these, which is quite amazing at this point.

[Glenn Thurston]

Yeah.

[Mike Axelrod]

But go Look. Listen to Nicolema Key531. Because the topic we're going to talk about today with Glenn pertains to her podcast. Because her podcast set up, really, the situation in New Zealand. And the situation we're specifically talking about, Glenn, is firearms. Right. Okay, Glenn, listen to me. This is a audio medium. Okay. A podcast. I. You have to speak. And so one word answers are not preferred. Preferred in a podcast environment.

[Glenn Thurston]

Yeah, I totally. Yeah, totally understand. I. I didn't actually get you asking me a question. Sorry.

[Mike Axelrod]

So that's what we set up. Nicole McKee's podcast is really. I don't want to. The reason I'm sending people is I don't want to get into the background of. We can get into a little bit. I don't want to get into the in depth background on all firearms legislation and regulation changes and whatnot in New Zealand.

[Glenn Thurston]

Yeah. And. And that's fair enough. I don't. I don't know all of it either. It's too in depth for. But yeah, there's just this one particular area that's a little bit of a hurdle. Quite a delicate situation, but it's one that needs to be managed correctly.

[Mike Axelrod]

And so we wanted to have you on here because you have a very particular story tied in with this one particular area.

[Glenn Thurston]

Yeah.

[Mike Axelrod]

And I forewarned you about this podcast because I wanted the truth and I wanted the whole story and I wanted details of the story.

[Glenn Thurston]

Yeah.

[Mike Axelrod]

And I said, are you willing to do that? Glenn. Look guys, I'm a hunter and when I go hunting I like to figure out how I can get my trophies back home. Well, you don't have to look much further than Safari Specialty Importers. We know that trophy importation can be quite a headache. That's why Safari Specialty Importers strives to make it easy and hassle free as possible. They have access to a bonded warehouse. You're not going to be charged any storage fees. You get a dedicated team that's readily available and will update you at every step in the process. They'll even go one step further. Safari Specialty Importers is working with us at Blood Origins and they will donate $100 from every shipment that they work with through us to the Robin Hood Wildlife Foundation. This money is going to go towards projects including anti poaching, community development, wildlife conservation, you name it. At the end of the day, choose to spend your money with a team like Safari Specialty Importers. They're a dedicated team, but they are just as dedicated about hunting as a conservation model. Hassle free logistics, fueling conservation. Go with Safari Specialty Importers. Bushnell has been a longtime supporter of Blood Origins and in keeping with the spirit of our collaboration, we've come up with an amazing idea. Bushnell is eager to help you get set up for conservation success. That's right. They want to help you. The conservation and research community is dominated by good people doing good things and investing significant time and effort for the benefit of habitat and the species. So what do you need to do? Pretty simple. Send us your conservation story and or your conservation wish. Could be managing whitetails. Could be understanding your environment or species or something else related to conservation. What would you be able to do if you had a great trail camera setup? We will select the best story every other month and send you a camera bundle. Cell camera, normal SD camera, SD cards as well as optics. Everything you need to get set up for success. I can't wait to see what you submit. You can email [e-mail] DM US. Message us whatever you want. We are not hard to find. Good luck. Are you one of those shooters or hunters that have not yet plunged into the world of putting a silencer on your rifle? The only question I have for you is why not? Okay, okay, okay. Look, you're probably saying but Robby, it takes like 10 months to get your silencer cleared. You're living in 2022, my friend. Today applying and receiving for a silencer is down to literally weeks. Ordering one is easier than ever. As Silence essential makes it simple to apply. You go to their website, you buy a silencer, and everything is handled by them from then on. In as little as a few weeks, your silencer will show up at your door. You don't have to get off the couch. It is literally that simple. Just go to silenceessential.com today. Go get your silencer.

[Glenn Thurston]

Yeah, 100%. And, you know, I think the other thing is I'm one story of many people that have been through this situation and it's. And it's been silenced through fear of their own. For my own, for myself initially, I didn't speak about the situation, which I'll go into shortly.

[Mike Axelrod]

But do you think speaking about the situation now and getting into the details of it, would there be any repercussions now or do you think.

[Glenn Thurston]

No, no. And I don't. I don't really. Yeah. I've got no fear of revocations. I've got no fear of anything because I know where I sit. I seek help regularly these days if I need it. If things start going a bit hurdled, I'll go to the gp, I'll go to my psychiatrist if I need to, because I know the situation and I've educated myself and I listen and, and it's something that I want to portray to others, let them know what the facts are. Because there's a lot of misinformation about stories like mine which did happen but have changed and those stories are still filtering through, through social media. People are flooding the Internet with, don't go get help, you'll lose everything. They'll take everything. And it's like, well, that's such a bad message to send people that. That is a bigger problem than the problem itself because it's actually not true anymore. And yes, there's going to be cases where, you know, they may revoke your firearms license, but generally speaking, they are working more on a case by case. They are working with you. I trust what they're doing, which is the whole point. And if they're not right, the whole.

[Mike Axelrod]

Point of the question on the. Yeah, and we'll get into this, but the whole point of the question, and you know, people in America get all wrapped around the axle about potentially spending a little bit more time and a little bit. There are a couple more questions and waiting a little bit to get your firearms. There's a point to it, which is you don't want the right. The wrong people.

[Glenn Thurston]

Yeah. Getting the firearm just because I'm, you know, I know that I'm Fit and proper. I've got to prove that to someone I don't know. So I, I understand it from their point of view because there are a lot of people that probably shouldn't have a firearms license for whatever reason, but until they can decipher that and know the public is safe and you are safe as a firearms license holder, that, yeah, I totally understand there's gotta be rules. But, yeah, we've, we've got to break down this barrier. We've got to break down the myths and get the truth out of what's actually and get the good stories that are happening, which there are lots, which we're slowly getting through and finding more and more and more. But yeah.

[Mike Axelrod]

Glenn Thurston, welcome to the Blood Origins Podcast. We met each other in late October of last year in Hamilton, New Zealand. You're not sitting in Hamilton right now, though.

[Glenn Thurston]

No, no, I'm in Wanaka, down in the south island, not far from Queensland.

[Mike Axelrod]

Getting ready for the raw. Are you going out to hunt red stags?

[Glenn Thurston]

I will be. I didn't. I haven't been lucky enough to score a ballot anywhere. But, yeah, there's plenty of spots to go, so I will be out at some point.

[Mike Axelrod]

I think you need to. Do you need to score a ballot for just a good block or are they secret spots around New Zealand that are public DIY that you can sneak into?

[Glenn Thurston]

Oh, there's, there's a lot of. There's a lot of open country that you can access. Obviously there's always that fear of other hunters being in there. So there's a little bit of, more of a element of risk that you've just got to be a bit wary of what you're roaring in, but otherwise.

[Mike Axelrod]

Roaring in another hunter.

[Glenn Thurston]

Yeah, which happens. And, but no getting the raw. The raw blocks. Locally, we've got a really good ballot system and it pretty much covers a lot of the national park. So, you know, during that four week period, you can't go in there unless you had that block. So.

[Mike Axelrod]

Okay, okay, okay.

[Glenn Thurston]

Yeah.

[Mike Axelrod]

But now I think there's still some secret valleys and secret corners of New Zealand that may be holding good red stags that somebody may know about.

[Glenn Thurston]

Of course, there is plenty of spots. Yeah, yeah. And we won't talk about where they are.

[Mike Axelrod]

People are going to go. That's what we want a podcast about. That's what we want a podcast about. We don't want to be talking about what we're about to talk about, which is about to be very heavy. Glenn, maybe I can start and we'll go down several rabbit holes. You've started an organization called Mental Hunts.

[Glenn Thurston]

That's correct, yeah.

[Mike Axelrod]

And you started an organization called Mental Hunts specifically because of misnomers perceptions, this sort of masculine attitude of not needing, not willing, being looked down on if you decide to talk. Is that, does that capture that correctly?

[Glenn Thurston]

Yeah, yeah, it does. I, I guess now's probably a good time to sort of go back to where it started and how it started because I mean, depression's been something that I've battled my whole life and back. I'm now 46 years old. Back when I was 18, I was actually living in Australia. So I didn't grow up around firearms. I wasn't in a rural community like most Kiwis. Just about every New Zealand is born on a farm and just played around firearms and learned the whole thing. But back in 2000, well, back in, back in Australia, when I was 18 years old, I, I did have an attempt on taking my life and I'm very fortunate to that not have gone through. So I did seek a little bit of help then. I was 18 and I was drinking heavily at the time and probably continued drinking heavily for most of my life after that. I refused medication. It was something that I refused and there's a long story behind that with history of my dad's depression and wrong medication. So. But I thought I knew better and so I got onto, I got onto drinking alcohol and taking my own drugs rather than the medical profession. So I didn't really help myself in any way. So I. Fast forwarding a long way, I've met my wife, I've had three kids, we moved to New Zealand and I thought I'd left all that behind and I got on with my life. I, I did get my firearms license within that period. And then 2016 I had a business and I was burnt out and I was drinking heavily again and I, I hit rock bottom and I was pretty much at the end of the road again and didn't really see it, it was just creeping up on me and I was dark and I wasn't happy. I was being successful with the business, but it was just engulfing my life and I just couldn't keep up. And yeah, like I say, I burnt out. And one night, very, very drunk. It was nearly lights out again and very fortunately my wife came out and saw me and, and I managed to get out of that night and the next day I saw to myself, I'm going to get help. I need to fix this. This can't I can't live like this.

[Mike Axelrod]

None of your mates in your circles in 2016 knew this was happening with you?

[Glenn Thurston]

No, I didn't talk. I was. I was scream. It was like screaming for help with a pane of glass in front of you. You think you're asking for help, but you're really not.

[Mike Axelrod]

How would, how did you, in your brain think you were asking for help?

[Glenn Thurston]

90% of the time I was drunk, so not while I was working, obviously, but when I was asking for help.

[Mike Axelrod]

So most people, were you actually asking or just the. The idea of being drunk in your brain was the, Was the shout?

[Glenn Thurston]

Well, I didn't know. I guess I never really went up to someone, said, look, I need help. And that's something I would do now. I would say I'm having a really hard time. I just don't know where to turn. And it's easy now, but when, when it's the first time it comes around, it kicks your butt, you just don't know where to turn. But anyway, I finally, finally took that big step to go to the doctor. It was so hard. I. I don't know why it was so hard, but it was. And I got the best help ever. My gp, she was amazing. She referred me onto what we have over here as brief intervention, where they give you, I think it's six treatments for free support and they guide you through. I ended up getting on medication all at this same time. That night was the last drop of alcohol I've ever had. I'm now eight years sober and that. That alone was a really big decision for me. That, that was. That was probably what was going to kill me.

[Mike Axelrod]

What were you, if you don't mind me asking, how much were you drinking?

[Glenn Thurston]

I'd probably drink a couple of bottles of red wine a night and I'd usually have started that off with a. Either a couple of beers or a few bourbons. So, yeah, it was pretty easy to down a couple of bottles of red, especially in winter, sitting by the fire. So. But yeah, I got. I got this brief intervention and she's sort of, obviously asked me how it was and am I suicidal? And, yeah, she knew it was. I. I broke down with the, with the gp. I had to go out the back door. She helped me get back to my car because I didn't want to walk through the waiting room. And, yeah, it was a mess. It just all hit me and the help I got, like I say, I was amazing. I got on medication, life started getting good. We ended up moving out to a Farm, high country farm. And about six months later I ended up getting a job on that farm, which was awesome. It was absolutely amazing, a great experience. About 4 years working on that farm. I'm skipping through a little bit here because this is where it sort of gets interesting, because about two years on from that, I decided to go back to my GP and ask the question. I said, well, I got off alcohol and got on this medication at the same time and life's been great, but what's actually doing it? Do I actually need this medication? And I wasn't opposed to it. I just didn't really have the right answers in my head. So she said, well, it felt like.

[Mike Axelrod]

You were better, you felt like you were better, you felt like you were on a better track. You're like, maybe I don't need this anymore.

[Glenn Thurston]

Jumped out of bed with a spring of my step. Love going to work every day on the farm. Like farming's hard work, as you're aware. And yeah, I fitted in well and learned heaps and ran around the hills, mustering, pushing up sheep from hour to hour of working through to midnight, failing, no complaints, Loved it. Life was great. Had that rural living, out hunting with the kids, taking them out, rabbiting, doing all sorts of things. A lot of deer on the farm while I was working. And so we went on this journey with the doctor. She was great. She said, well, let's go off them, let's wean off them. So over a period of three months, we weaned off my medication. And so I did it all correctly. It's not like I just dropped them because I decided I got to about three months down and things started getting distorted again in my head and I just started getting dark and didn't want to go to work. I started this lot of getting grumpy at my boss for no reason and yeah, just wasn't happy. And I did start having that ideation of I'm not good enough and maybe I'm better off not here. And all this sort of feelings. I thought, nah, stuff this. I spoke to my wife, I said, right, I can see this, it's not good, I gotta go get, go back to the doctor and get back on this medication. So clearly it's something I need. So we had a good chat and she was great and she goes, well, how about I refer you through to the mental health services counselor and that can just help you get back on your feet and we'll put you back on your medications as of today.

[Mike Axelrod]

This is the original doctor, same original doctor before, knew your history, the gp, Right?

[Glenn Thurston]

Yeah. Knew I worked on a farm. She had a farming history herself, so she was great. So bear in mind now this, this point now is 2019, pre Christchurch massacre.

[Mike Axelrod]

Okay.

[Glenn Thurston]

I walked into the first meeting with this counselor and one of the first, you know, we had a quick chat and one of those first real questions was, are you suicidal? I said, well, yeah, I'm having those feelings again. I mean, I guess that's why I'm here, because. And I'd already explained what I'd done. We'd had an experiment with getting off the meds. I don't turn crazy, I just get dark on myself. And the next question followed up with, do you have a firearms license? And I was like, what? I said, what's.

[Mike Axelrod]

So is this protocol as you've, as you've been through this, have you?

[Glenn Thurston]

I never had that. I never had that in 2016. It never even, never even entered the equation and I was very, very, very suicidal back then. I was not in a good way.

[Mike Axelrod]

So did she not refer you to the Counselor Then in 2016 in that, in that six week program that you did, that little like intervention stuff? They didn't ask you the same questions?

[Glenn Thurston]

They never, never asked me that question at all. Wasn't even in the question. She just focused on me and helping me and that was what I thought was great. And, and like I say, that was 2016. That was before the big panic button got pressed with.

[Mike Axelrod]

So in 2019, when you're doing this, has Christchurch happened already?

[Glenn Thurston]

Yes.

[Mike Axelrod]

Okay, so just for everyone's edification, just give us a quick rundown of what happened in Christchurch.

[Glenn Thurston]

There was a fella, I don't even like using his name because he's an idiot. He doesn't deserve the privilege. He came over from Australia just like I did, got his firearms license, but had an agenda. And he went and shot up two mosques and shot 50, killed 50 odd people, which is horrific, it's disgusting and no one likes to see that, so.

[Mike Axelrod]

And obviously there was a bunch of firearm regulation changes that happened very quickly.

[Glenn Thurston]

In New Zealand and instantly, as happens probably in America and here and everywhere, as soon as that happens, everyone screens mental illness and totally agree there's something not right there. But the comparison between him and I. Chalk and cheese.

[Mike Axelrod]

Yeah, Talking cheese.

[Glenn Thurston]

So yeah, with, with, with this counselor then asking me for if I have a firearms license. He basically told me, I said, look, I don't even want to go into this. This has got nothing to do with it. And he said, but it's actually by law, I've got to ask you, I'm like, what, what, when did this happen? What, what, what are you talking about? Anyway, I said that I'm done, I'm over this. I'm not, I'm not continuing this conversation because I could see the rabbit hole he was taking me down. So I basically sort of got up and started walking out and I said, I'm going down to the police station and if you're going to notify them, I'm going to tell them they can get stuff too. I'm not, I'm not having my firearms taken. I need it for work and I do it for my own mental health. I go out hunting just to, to get away from everything. This is why I do it. And he goes, oh, it'll be fine, it'll be fine. He goes, I'll come down with you. So he packed up his computer and he actually ended the session. It was very bizarre. And then he come down the police station with me because I was like, I was fuming. I had steam coming out my ears that this was happening. Anyway, we sat down with the police and he's. And we had a good chat and talked about everything. And he's like, well, you know, unfortunately we've got to act on it because it's been a notification. I was like, okay. I said, well, sweet, can we do this tomorrow because the kids go back to school. No, we've got to act now. I'm like, what? None of this time have I said, I want to use my guns for anything. I was. But just what are you talking about? And he's like, no, we have to act now. I said, well, I got things to do in town. It was a 20 minute drive to my house, so they actually waited on the side of the road for me on my way to my house until I drove past and made me call them as I went past and they followed me home. I hadn't even been home to my kids. I rocked up my house with the police behind me in my driveway, my kids inside watching telly. And then I had to proceed to get my firearms out. And it was probably about an hour while they wrote all the details down, counted every single bullet. I had boxes of 22ammo which were used for rabbit shooting, counted every bullet, everything I had in that gun safe, every bolt, every code, everything, and then took it away and then just drove off down the driveway.

[Mike Axelrod]

I took every bullet and every gun you had.

[Glenn Thurston]

Everything, everything I had in my safe was taken and was Noted on a, on a document. And I felt like crap. Here I was working through a process with my gp, doing all the right things, not a threat to anybody, not a threat to myself. I had bad feelings, but I knew anyone, any doctor or psychiatrist will see I was no threat to myself or I wouldn't have been in that room asking her. And then they drove out the driveway and I honestly went darker than I've ever been before. I felt like walking straight out the front of a truck. I said to the officer, I said, you're actually probably better off taking my medicine cabinet. You're probably better off taking my car or my garden hose. Like, what? What do you think this is helping me? I said, you know, you could drive out this driveway now and I could within five minutes have a rifle in my hands if I want to. I said, so what are you proving here? What is this about? I said, now I've got to go and explain this to my kids. They're wondering what the hell's going on. That these two police officers standing at one, standing like a security guard, standing by on standing guard, and you're taking all my stuff. It was ridiculous. It was out of control for such a minor depressive disorder that I was managing. So, yeah, it really led me down a bad road for, for a week or two.

[Mike Axelrod]

So what did they say? Like, what was the. Did they explain to you the process of how you were going to get the guns back or whatnot? Or.

[Glenn Thurston]

They said to me, what's going to happen is I'm going to hear from an inspector, an officer in Queenstown. He was going to organize an appointment with me to sit with him for a 15 minute chat and then the decision will be made. Apparently he was a lovely guy and he, he will understand and everything. A few weeks later, I had that meet with this officer. I'm trying to not use his name, he's since retired anyhow. But he sat with me for 15 minutes. I explained a few things, thought we got along finally. And he rang me about a few days later. He said, look, I'm going on holidays for two weeks. When I get back, I'll let you know my decision. I was like, really? What, what are you talking about? Anyway, he went away on his holiday, come back and rang me and rang me and says, look, I've taken it all into consideration. I've thought about it a lot and I'm going to follow through with the revocation of your note of your firearms. I said, what? Why though? On what grounds? Because I had suicidal Ideation, that was it. And I was like, this is crazy. I had a clearance from a psychiatrist, I had a clearance from my gp, a letter stating that I was fit and proper and though I had absolutely no concerns about me with firearms. But he overrode that just on his own personal agenda and said no. So what people listening to this need to understand is the Firearm Safety Authority of New Zealand that we have now wasn't established back then and all this was managed by the police as a. As a. As a department. So each region of police departments had their own sort of rules. I suppose no one really knew what they'd been throwing this, you've got to do, deal this with mental health. But no one really knew what was going on. So the inconsistency around the country, so I'm discovering now, was so bad, like some of the situations I hear, like some police shouldn't have a badge, they should, should have lost it for the situations and the, and the decisions that were made. But no, no fault of their own. They weren't really given the rules properly. You know, they were just trying to figure it out themselves. And they're enforcers, so they go in and enforce. No empathy, no care for the person, no care for the fact that I was actually genuinely, you know, having a bit of a hard time and I was just getting a little bit of help. So obviously with that. I lost my firearms license. I decided not to talk to anyone. I couldn't help you.

[Mike Axelrod]

You even lost your license. They revoked your guns and everything, which.

[Glenn Thurston]

Means I can't be around firearms. Means I can't. I can't even go rabbiting and not shoot. I can't even sit in the car in the buggy with them. I couldn't even. Yeah, had nothing to do with firearms. I couldn't own one or anything. So it basically means firearms are out of your life forever. There goes all my rabbiting with my kids. There goes all my time in the hills with the kids. I was just building up to get my middle daughter her first deer. She was really getting into it. My youngest was just starting to come up with the rabbiting. So a really good bonding time that we had just got taken away and it was, it was, it was really. It was really hard to swallow, eh? And. And this is where it started evolving in my head thinking this is major, because if people start hearing about this, no one's. Because I hadn't heard of any situations at that stage. It was like no one, even my friends, everyone I know over here owns a Firearm. I thought, everyone I know, I've finally got open about my health and publicly talking to people. And now here I am, I've got to become a recluse again and not talk about it because I'm scared that they won't get help. I don't want my friends to feel like they can't get help. And it was just didn't sit well with me. I spent that period just working hard to get my license back. I didn't even get told when I could get it back, when I could reapply. There was no, like, now it's five years, whereas then it was just, your license is gone. I rang this officer over and nearly every month on the key I'd bring him, when can I get it back? When can I go back? And he ended up stop answering his phone. And I ended up ringing a psychiatrist to go in and have a chat to her and say, what? What can I do? Like, can someone give me some answers? Because I really don't know what to do. Bearing in mind there was no regulator at this stage, no one to talk to, no answers, they weren't answering the phone. And at the same time I also went down to my local police station and said, explained it and there was a different lady running the show at this stage. And she was disgusted at what had happened. She was like, this isn't right. Long story short, I ended up being allowed to just reapply. And this was a year later. So I reapplied. Went down all the usual avenues. But the police locally said, this is so bad, we're not happy with it. We're going to do all your vetting, which is not what was happening back then. So I had to least do the vetting and, and cleared me of everything. And I ended up getting my license back two years later. But the funny thing was, two years I did my course, passed everything, paid my money. A year beyond that, I got my license back. So it took me two years from two years and two months and I had my license back. It just turned up in the mail. That was it.

[Mike Axelrod]

And guns and your bullets and stuff?

[Glenn Thurston]

No. Well, at this stage, my boss had stored them because I had to nominate someone to store them.

[Mike Axelrod]

The cops didn't just take them and store them.

[Glenn Thurston]

They did originally. Then I had to nominate someone to look after them because they don't have the space. Okay, this just appears in the mail and I'm like, I looked at it and I'm like, to my wife, well, I guess this means I can use My guns. Again, no one, no one approached me, no one phoned me, no one talked to me, no one said, right, so this is the situation. We're going to go through this process. You're going to get your firearms back. If you're having any health issues, go see your gp. Nothing. No. It was the most bizarre experience of my life. It was like this was such a. Put me into a dark place for absolutely no reason at all. And I'd already had a bit of that.

[Mike Axelrod]

Do you think that the. You mentioned that it's a little different today than it was in 2019? Do you still hear of issues like this?

[Glenn Thurston]

Yes, I do. And most of them are old news. There's the odd one recently, but it's really hard to take like, like people. People tell their friends what happened, but are they telling them the whole story? Is there a background story they're not telling? So it's really hard to make judgment on those stories because, you know, not everyone's going to tell the truth to their mates. It's just going to be the bad news. So. But there are a few. But there's actually a lot of. Lot more positive ones that have come out from it. After I got my license back, I. I said to my wife originally, when I get my. I'm going to do everything I can to get my license back. And once I've got my license back, I'm going to fix this shit show because it's. It's a joke. This is. This shouldn't be like this. And by no means do I feel like every single person, regardless of your mental state, should own a firearm, but it needs to be managed better.

[Mike Axelrod]

And what do you mean by. Do you mean, do you mean, for instance, the first thing that comes to my brain is in the situation, if you are having troubles or if you are having dark thoughts or whatnot, and you know that the possibility of your license being revoked and all your guns being taken away is, Is possible. Well, then I'm just going to hide it.

[Glenn Thurston]

Exactly. I'm jumping the gun here. But I had a meeting with the Ministerial Arms Advisory Group. They invited me on. They Advised Minister Nicole McKee of this legislation change. And one thing I said to them is, okay, this is, this is a problem now. This is where they've really sparked up and realized that they do have to do something about it. Because I said, okay, I don't want to get help. He doesn't want to get help, she doesn't want to get help. That's a problem. Yes, it's bad. But I said look at it in five years time, 10 years time. So this little minor depressive disorder that these people have right now that are easily managed with a little bit of help and maybe a little bit of medication just for a short period, but a sleeping pill or something and just someone to talk to, we could fix these people, but they're not, they're not getting help. So then 5, 10 years time they renew their firearms license because it's up for a renewal because they've not long had it or 10, we've got five or 10 year expiry dates. So when they renew their license they're going to go through this process. Oh, do you have a mental health issue? And they're going to tick no where. In actual fact, they've got a massive depressive disorder that's untreated. You tell me what's better. Giving someone a firearms that's got a major depressive disorder untreated because they're too scared to get ill, or giving someone a firearms license that's on medication, gets managed regularly and is on a good road.

[Mike Axelrod]

And do you think they're too scared to get help? In two ways I'll speak one, obviously the whole scenario with losing your guns, you know, but then I'll also. Let's, let's maybe talk to sort of. I don't want to dismiss females in this conversation obviously, but no, absolutely. There is a stigma tied to males and males saying, well, I don't have a problem or I don't need to talk to anybody.

[Glenn Thurston]

You correct. It's, it's. So there's a lot more males that own a firearms license. The suicide rate in males is a lot, is a lot higher. And this is where everyone sort of becomes this male conversation. But I am bit with you. It's, it's a human problem, you know, and we all have a role to play in supporting each other, whether you.

[Mike Axelrod]

Yeah, but there's a stigma tied to males, right? There's a stigma tied to guys and.

[Glenn Thurston]

Seeking help and especially in hunting, like it's a very stoic sport and talking feelings is not really part of your hunting trip. But I think it needs to be a little bit of a, especially if you're having a hard time, if your mate's struggling. You know, we need, we need to learn to have these conversations in a, in a easier manner and a more normal in your natural environment. I mean the best place to do these things is out in the hills and I've done it many, many times. I did run a campaign to put some light on the suicide rate in the construction industry. And in doing that, I climbed a hill 50 mountain 53 times with the suicide rate in the construction industry. The conversations on the hill are more than I've ever had in my life. Just because we were out in nature, just because we were, you know, in the moment. And it was the most amazing thing that ever happened. We had about 330 odd people climb the hill with me. And just the feeling of open air and no pressures, of four walls around you and you're not sitting face to face with someone and you're just walking along and talking. The conversations you had no idea. The conversations we had, it was, it was, it was heartwarming. It was really good. And this is where it's led into more of what I'm doing now and creating more video content around people's real life stories.

[Mike Axelrod]

What do you say to that person? Because I've had it. That person who says, especially in our hunting industry space, we shouldn't be talking about emotions, we shouldn't be talking about feelings. That's, that's woke stuff. That's snowflake stuff. We're supposed to be machismo big men, hunters.

[Glenn Thurston]

Yeah, I just say crap. I just call bullshit because I think it's situations like this. There's people like yourself, you're very influential and you've, you've got a very big voice, Robbie. And there's people like you that are going to help this. I always talk about the alpha, especially in a building industry. There's a real cool guy that everyone looks up to. If he starts talking feelings, everyone else will start talking feelings. You know, that's the short and narrow of it. But if he's going on that's crap. Don't talk like that. Then the rest of the team are not going to talk like that. So I think, you know, if we can get people that people wouldn't expect and they're coming to me already. I've got, I've got high profile people that are going, we want to, we want to come on your podcast. We want to do a video podcast with you. We want to talk about how great this is and we need to do this more. I've lost a friend, Ra. So, but I mean, what's the. How does it make us less of a man talking about her feelings? You know, if your friend said to you, I'm having a crack time, you wouldn't go, oh, harden up. Like, I know this is what we've used to do and this is what's happened a lot. But you know, just going through a relationship split, the amount of people that go down a dark road because of a, you know, a split in a relationship which I totally can appreciate. I mean I personally have never been through it. But yeah, I'd be, I, I wouldn't go too well with the situation. So you know, but there's ways through it and people need to know how to answer it. And this is where I talk about getting educated and, and we are in the process of developing a training program specifically for firearms license holders. It's going to be generic mental health training with what you can do as a firearms license holder. And that will vary and change over time as legislations change and things. But hopefully in a better, you know, they've got things good now. It is a lot better. There's a, there's a, there's a really good situation now where they actually offer you a self surrender option so you can actually surrender your own firearms license with no questions asked. But the good thing about that, which I never had that option, the good thing about that is you can still go out with your mates hunting, you can still shoot a firearms under supervision. You're just a non licensed firearms owner. So you have the ability to still go do the sport you love with the great, with a good support network around you, your mates, you know, don't. What I say to people if you have a friend that's not doing well, suggest storing their guns for them while they get the help. There's every, there's every chance that they will not have their firearms revoked because you know they're ticking boxes, they've stored their guns elsewhere, they're getting help, they're fit and proper, they're doing all the right things to stay fit and proper. If they do go down that road, they're obviously not well so they need help. So, so go on the journey with them, help them. And if they self surrender, which is what I recommend anyone does, because you're in control of your own destiny then, and you can reapply at any time.

[Mike Axelrod]

They don't have you lose your license. If you self surrender.

[Glenn Thurston]

Yeah, you lose your license. So basically you're a non license holder but, but you haven't had it taken away so you can't be around license guns and if you have it revoked, you cannot go near a gun for five years, end of story.

[Mike Axelrod]

Oh, that's the new law.

[Glenn Thurston]

Yeah, but with the self surrender you just surrender it and you reapply at any Time, obviously there's going to be paperwork, they're going to ask questions and you just disclose the information. Yeah, I was having a hard time myself. Surrendered. You're being proactive in the steps that you're taking so they take that into account. They may ask for a psychiatric assessment that's going to come back clear because you've made all the right decisions and they're going to give you your firearms back. Yes, it's a little bit of paperwork, but the paperwork we've got now is big enough anyway. So what's another page or two? So I, I definitely think that's good and that's not the best, you know that that's not the answer. I think we can do more drink drivers over here. If you get done drink driving quite often, more often than not, you'll get a work license so that you can still do your job. But as a firearms license holder, you get your license revoked, end of story. So farmers, hunting guides, pest controllers, which is a massive part of the New Zealand industry and culture, they're not going to go get help for that fear, they're not going to self surrender. So we need other options like potentially a work license, potentially storing their guns somewhere else. But you can access it between hours of this and this just like your driver's license so that they can still get the help they need. We need, we need to have the ability to not have anyone fearing getting help for any reason. It's borderline discrimination.

[Mike Axelrod]

Right, well that's the biggest, that's the biggest thing here is that people are afraid and have fear of asking for help because of the potential ramifications on the things that they love to do, things that maybe they are employed through, like you said farming or pest control. Like if you're a pest controller, like firearms is your thing man, like that's your pick it up you put in your truck every single day and if you're dealing with issues or you've had a bad breakup or, I don't know, whatever, whatever it is. Yeah, yeah, it's tough man. It's tough for you to admit it. I can see it. Like I don't even work in that industry.

[Glenn Thurston]

Yeah. And I, I guess throwing a few stats out when I did talk to the Ministerial Arms Advisory Group, obviously there's, there's Anti Firearms, there's Muslim representatives, there's Fire Pro Firearms, there's all sorts of people. So it's a real balance. There's GPS and I had one of the NZ gun control ladies contact me and said well, this is the reason we're doing it and this is the reason it has to happen. Because if you look in the, in the rural community, 40% of suicides in the farming community, which is the second highest suicide rate in the country, in that community is 40% with using a firearms. But if you look at it as a country, only 10% of suicides out of the 600 a year, 10% of suicides with firearms and explosives, 60% are with hangings with rope. So why do we not have a legislation on how you can purchase rope? You know, if you're going to go down that road, the, the rural community hold this country afloat. If they're not going to have, if they're not going to get help. Yeah, they're clearly not in a good way. They get everything thrown at them from the government. You know, when it comes to water rights and the cost of meat and everyone's taking a piece of the pie left, right and center. So they got it hard, man. Like after working four years on a farm, on a high country farm, like I can, I don't know how any of them make any money. So I can totally see the pressures they got. But if they can't get help to deal with those pressures, I mean, that's a, you know, that's a, not a, not a good situation. And, and like I say, it is a, it is a very delicate situation. But I think we can find more common ground and more good stories and better boundaries. We talk mental health, but what is mental health? You know, when you look at any, any job interview or anything. Oh, do you have mental health issues? Like, what's your real question? You know, that's a massive broad statement. Yes, I have mental health issues. So does every single person on this earth. What is your question? Do I have schizophrenia? Am I, do I have an eating disorder? Do I have anxiety? Do I have ptsd? You know, they're all different illnesses that have different outcomes. So why am I going to answer this question? Because it's such a broad statement and.

[Mike Axelrod]

There'S always, it seems like a question that is a fail pass kind of question.

[Glenn Thurston]

Yeah, 100%.

[Mike Axelrod]

Which is if I answer yes, I'm likely not going to get the job.

[Glenn Thurston]

Yeah, exactly. And this happened to me very recently when I applied for Antarctica through the New Zealand Scott base. I didn't even get a look in. Within a week I had a reply because I ticked. Yes, but another one didn't have the question and I got the job. But then the question came up later. And I just had a meeting with him and said exactly this. I said, look, I can send you a whole heap of links of what I'm doing for mental health, but my answer to you is yes, but you, you, you need to ask me what the question is. And he says, well, you're probably right because everyone that goes down there ends up on medication. They said, everyone that's turning up. I said, anyone that's answering no to you is a liar. So you tell me, yeah, either a liar or exactly. Someone who's managing it. And honestly, I can determine you the truth.

[Mike Axelrod]

Exactly, exactly.

[Glenn Thurston]

Yeah, it's, it's grow, it really has grown legs, this whole mental hunts thing. And I do understand we got to have these rules and I, I, I do work closely with the Firearm Safety Authority. When I say closely, I, I'm, I'm very quickly on their phone saying, why did this happen to this guy? Why did this happen to this girl? This doesn't seem right. And, and they're answering the questions and they're saying no, they can reapply, this is wrong. They stuffed up, you know, they're, they're open to trying to make this better. When I get, I get a lot of people messaging me, but they don't message them. So I actually, I get these, I read these messages to them so that without their names, obviously.

[Mike Axelrod]

Yeah, yeah.

[Glenn Thurston]

If they don't know, they think everything's fine and nothing gets fixed. Yeah, they are really. The people I'm working with are working hard to get it out to their team, educate their team. I've, I was chatting to them yesterday to Kendra and there's a few other things we've got coming up to try and help educate their team, team around the country, hopefully. I do a lot of talks, Robbie, bit like yourself, and I'm integrating that into a training program that I want to implement around the NZDAs in New Zealand. It was a really positive talk I had with the Ministerial Arms Advisory Group. They are definitely now working to make this better. We are in a really good situation right now with the fact that we've got this legislation rewrite. So if anyone in New Zealand is watching this and has ever trolled the Internet and written crap, don't tell the Internet, tell them because you're actually creating the problem by putting your story, which is old news on the Internet, you're stopping thousands from getting help. Go tell the people that we have the ability to tell now and hopefully create change. But if no one says anything and no one says there's a Problem, they don't think there's a problem. They can talk about stats all they like and say, oh, you know, we've only had this many revocations. But that doesn't, that doesn't please me at all because that just tells me people aren't getting help. The stat's not working at the moment as far as I'm concerned until we build this trust back. And I think the best thing that could happen to the Firearm Safety Authority is they get pulled away from the police and they are their own regulatory because at the moment they're under the banner of the police. So they need to be aside. A bit like our road transport. You know, you register your cars through the agency but the police enforce it. I think a similar thing needs to happen with firearms that will be, that will help firearms owners get their trust back with the Firearm Safety Authority because, you know, like it or hate it, there's a lot of people out there that don't trust the police, you know, and don't get me wrong, I think the police do an amazing job. They've got a lot of shit to deal with over here and I just keep getting it thrown at from the previous government. So I also know police officers that have had this same situation happen to them so you know, they're not immune to their own rules. And you know, I got a, I know a guy right now is going through a big court case. This is the exact same thing trying to get his license.

[Mike Axelrod]

So Glenn, in wrap up, where can people find more information if they want to reach out to you, they want to talk to you. How, what, what, where can they go?

[Glenn Thurston]

Yeah, so if they want to talk to me and they want to find out any information, I guess the best spot to go would be to our website. We threw one together just so we had an somewhere for people to go that is going to be evolving with more resources over time. But that, that Contact us page on there will come directly to me. So.

[Mike Axelrod]

And what is that website?

[Glenn Thurston]

It's MentalHunts Co NZ.

[Mike Axelrod]

Okay. MentalHunts Co Z NZ.

[Glenn Thurston]

Yeah. And then obviously we have a YouTube channel where we're, we're going out on hunting. We're creating a hunting show with people that have had stories and we're just telling their stories out on the hill while we're hunting and taking out some couple of nice meat animals or a trophy for them. We've had a couple so far and we've got another one coming up starting next month and a few podcasts. So yeah, check out the YouTube channel. And we've also got a frequently asked questions that we're going to constantly keep updated with the facts. So if you want to know what's going on with the firearm Safety Authority and the rules, it's all on there. We've only recently put that up. And then obviously Instagram and Facebook.

[Mike Axelrod]

Yeah. Yeah, perfect. Thanks, Glenn. I appreciate you, man. And look forward to our paths crossing again one day. Okay.

[Glenn Thurston]

Yeah, absolutely. I appreciate your time, Robbie. Thank you so much.

[Mike Axelrod]

Well, that's it for today. I appreciate you listening. As always, leave a review, share it with your friends, and most importantly, do what's right to convey the truth around.