Blood Origins Podcast Episode 563: Dr. H. S. Pabla || Killing People to Save Wildlife

Release Date: May 29, 2025

In Episode 563 of the Blood Origins podcast, Blood Origins Inc. hosts an insightful conversation with Dr. Harbhajan Singh Pabla, a retired Chief Wildlife Warden from Madhya Pradesh, India. This episode delves deep into the intricate relationship between hunting and wildlife conservation, exploring historical contexts, current challenges, and innovative solutions to foster a symbiotic coexistence between humans and wildlife.

1. Introducing Dr. Harbhajan Singh Pabla

Timestamp [01:05 - 02:16]

The episode begins with the host, Mike Axelrod, introducing Dr. Pabla, highlighting his distinguished 35-year career in the Indian Forest Service. Dr. Pabla served as the Chief Wildlife Warden of Madhya Pradesh until his retirement in 2012, where he was instrumental in managing iconic species such as tigers and elephants and spearheading various ecosystem restoration projects. Despite multiple attempts, Dr. Pabla was unable to push through resource utilization initiatives at both the regional and federal levels, including proposals to open up regulated hunting.

Dr. Pabla ([02:16]): "So there's a reason why I started Blood Origins and that reason is simple, is that I wanted to convey the truth about hunting."

2. Historical Overview of Wildlife Management in India

Timestamp [10:09 - 14:34]

Dr. Pabla provides a comprehensive history of wildlife management in India, tracing back to the Indian Forest Act of 1865. This foundational legislation declared all wildlife and forest products as the property of the government, prohibiting hunting without explicit permission. Over the years, various laws were enacted, including the Elephant Protection Act (1879) and the Wild Birds and Animals Protection Act (1912), which primarily focused on regulating the use and managing human-wildlife conflicts.

Despite these regulations, pre-independence laws had provisions for protected areas and hunting reserves for the elite, leading to inconsistent enforcement and varying regulations across different regions.

Brittany ([10:09]): "Modern or pre-modern wildlife management started with the coming of the Indian forest Act in 1865."

3. The Impact of the 1972 Wildlife Protection Act and Project Tiger

Timestamp [12:46 - 18:23]

By the 1970s, wildlife populations in India were in significant decline due to rampant poaching and habitat destruction. The Wildlife Protection Act of 1972 was introduced to consolidate various existing laws into a single, more stringent framework. Modeled after international conservation laws, the 1972 Act marked a shift towards a more protectionist approach, although it initially still allowed limited hunting of problem animals.

Simultaneously, Project Tiger was initiated, focusing specifically on tiger conservation. This project led to the establishment of numerous tiger reserves, promoting a holistic conservation philosophy that emphasized minimal human interference, allowing nature to flourish autonomously.

Brittany ([17:24]): "Definitely, definitely at that time there was no other way."

4. Challenges in Wildlife Management and Law Enforcement

Timestamp [28:11 - 35:00]

Post the 1972 Act, although there were initial improvements in tiger populations, the lack of systematic, country-wide monitoring led to a resurgence of poaching and habitat loss, particularly around the year 2000. Further amendments in 2005 strengthened conservation laws, closing loopholes that previously permitted limited hunting.

Dr. Pabla critiques the centralization of wildlife management powers, arguing that it has marginalized state-level authorities. Decisions that once resided with state Chief Wildlife Wardens are now predominantly made by the National Tiger Conservation Authority, reducing the flexibility and responsiveness of local management efforts.

Brittany ([28:46]): "Most of the decision making except in the case of dangerous animals is and the policy formulation happens at the government of India level."

5. Hunting Regulations and the Permit System

Timestamp [35:00 - 38:43]

Under the Wildlife Protection Act, hunting is strictly regulated. Permits can be issued for hunting problem animals, but the process is cumbersome, often requiring approval from administrative officers rather than the forest department itself. This bureaucratic hurdle has resulted in limited actual hunting activities, despite ongoing human-wildlife conflicts.

Dr. Pabla highlights that while some states like Bihar and Kerala have implemented more aggressive culling programs, utilizing local village heads to coordinate hunting efforts, these actions remain controversial and are often met with legal and ethical challenges.

Brittany ([36:23]): "Many states allow hunting except of species like wild boar."

6. Proposal for Utilizing Hunting to Benefit Communities and Conservation

Timestamp [38:43 - 47:33]

Dr. Pabla advocates for a paradigm shift in wildlife management by proposing the controlled utilization of hunted animals to generate tangible benefits for local communities and fund conservation efforts. He argues that by allowing regulated hunting, states can transform problematic wildlife from burdens into valuable resources.

In his book, "Wardens and Shackles", Dr. Pabla outlines potential financial gains from hunting, estimating that Madhya Pradesh alone could earn approximately 530 crore rupees annually from hunting permits, which could be reinvested into village communities and governmental conservation programs.

Brittany ([43:05]): "Now start benefiting from it rather than spending money on hiring the hunters and bearing the carcasses underground."

7. Legal and Policy Reforms Needed for Sustainable Conservation

Timestamp [47:33 - 56:32]

For Dr. Pabla's vision to materialize, significant legal reforms are necessary. The current Wildlife Protection Act focuses predominantly on protection, lacking comprehensive provisions for the sustainable utilization and management of wildlife. Dr. Pabla calls for amendments that incorporate conservation and management into the legal framework, enabling states to exercise greater autonomy in wildlife management.

He emphasizes the importance of fostering a symbiotic relationship between humans and wildlife, where both can coexist beneficially. This involves not only regulating hunting but also ensuring that communities directly benefit from wildlife, thereby fostering a sense of ownership and responsibility towards conservation.

Brittany ([56:32]): "Symbiosis is something in which you welcome conflict. Everybody knows conflict coexistence is a very uneasy assembly."

8. Vision for a Symbiotic Coexistence Between Humans and Wildlife

Timestamp [56:32 - 58:16]

In the concluding segments, Dr. Pabla envisions a future where wildlife is an asset rather than a problem. By enabling communities to derive economic benefits from regulated hunting, local populations can become active participants in conservation efforts. This approach aims to reduce human-wildlife conflicts by providing alternative sources of income and protein, thereby aligning the interests of both humans and wildlife.

He stresses the need for innovative solutions like fencing and active protection measures to safeguard both human lives and wildlife, advocating for a balanced approach that respects both ecological integrity and human livelihoods.

Brittany ([53:56]): "Animals are welcome. At the same time, people kind of try to create systems in which animals don't have to suffer and people benefit from the animals."

Conclusion

Dr. Harbhajan Singh Pabla's insights offer a compelling argument for re-evaluating traditional conservation models in India. By integrating regulated hunting into conservation strategies, there lies potential to bridge the gap between human communities and wildlife, ensuring sustainable coexistence and enhanced conservation outcomes. This episode of Blood Origins underscores the importance of innovative, community-centered approaches in modern conservation efforts.

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. Pabla ([02:16]): "I wanted to convey the truth about hunting."

• Brittany ([10:09]): "Modern or pre-modern wildlife management started with the Indian Forest Act in 1865."

• Brittany ([43:05]): "Start benefiting from it rather than spending money on hiring the hunters and bearing the carcasses underground."

• Brittany ([56:32]): "Symbiosis is something in which you welcome conflict."

For more insightful discussions on conservation and hunting, subscribe to the Blood Origins podcast and stay updated with episodes that challenge conventional perspectives to foster a sustainable future for wildlife and humanity.