Episode 569 - Daniel Workman || BEARDOGS

Summary

Blood Origins Podcast Summary
Episode 569: Daniel Workman || BEARDOGS
Release Date: June 19, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode 569 of the Blood Origins podcast, host Robbie delves deep into the world of bear hunting in Appalachia through an engaging conversation with filmmaker and anthropologist Daniel Workman. This episode centers around Daniel's passion project, "Bear Dogs", a documentary that explores the intricate and often misunderstood practice of bear hunting with hounds in West Virginia.

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Daniel Workman's Background (00:05 - 06:26)

Daniel Workman introduces himself as a filmmaker and anthropologist from Southeast West Virginia. With over 15 years in Colorado's vibrant film scene, Daniel shares his journey from growing up hunting with his father to pursuing higher education in cinema and anthropology. His academic background equips him with a unique lens to document and narrate cultural practices authentically.

Notable Quote:

Daniel Workman (05:34): "My background is in filmmaking and anthropology... I grew up hunting with my dad and my brothers."

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The Birth of "Bear Dogs" (06:28 - 14:28)

Daniel recounts the inception of "Bear Dogs," which began as a photography project in 2015. The project's evolution into a film was driven by his realization that photography alone couldn't capture the dynamic and raw essence of bear hunting. This led him to transition into filmmaking to better convey the story's intensity and cultural significance.

Notable Quote:

Daniel Workman (14:07): "I realized this is so crazy... I can't tell this story with photos. It's just too much."

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Filming Process and Challenges (14:28 - 29:12)

As a single cameraman, Daniel shares the logistical and emotional challenges of filming over 40 days in the field across seasons. His dedication is evident as he juggles crowdfunding efforts with hands-on post-production work. The documentary not only showcases the thrill of hunting but also delves into the hunters' relationships with their dogs, the land, and their cultural identities.

Notable Quote:

Daniel Workman (18:27): "I've shot over a hundred hours of footage... It's something bigger than just a single film."

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Cultural Context and Misconceptions (29:12 - 34:32)

Daniel addresses the prevalent stereotypes surrounding bear hunters, particularly within Appalachian culture. Contrary to common perceptions of hunters as uneducated or disrespectful, he highlights that many bear hunters, like his subject Kish Justice, are highly educated professionals who deeply respect their craft and environment. The documentary aims to dismantle these misconceptions by presenting a nuanced portrayal of bear hunting culture.

Notable Quote:

Daniel Workman (29:01): "Kish Justice is a bear hunter... he's a scientist by trade. These people are not stupid. They're highly educated."

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Impact of Bear Hunting on Participants (34:32 - 38:44)

Daniel reflects on how bear hunting serves as more than just a sport for participants, especially veterans seeking adrenaline and camaraderie reminiscent of combat experiences. He shares a heartfelt story of a veteran's transformative experience during a turkey hunt, emphasizing the therapeutic and community-building aspects of hunting.

Notable Quote:

Daniel Workman (11:13): "Veterans go to war because they love the high... hunting gives them a high they didn't think was possible sober."

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Filmmaking Vision and Ethnographic Approach (38:44 - 43:23)

Drawing inspiration from visual ethnographies of the mid-20th century, Daniel emphasizes his commitment to an unbiased and immersive storytelling approach. He strives to present bear hunting as it is, without advocacy or condemnation, allowing viewers to form their own informed opinions based on the film's authentic portrayal.

Notable Quote:

Daniel Workman (33:22): "This film is for everyone... It's about learning and looking at the nuance, not jumping into stereotypes."

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Current Status and Funding Efforts (43:23 - 46:42)

Daniel updates listeners on the project's progress, detailing the extensive footage shot and the ongoing post-production phase. Despite a successful crowdfunding campaign that reached 85% of the $38,000 goal, there remains a shortfall. He outlines plans to continue fundraising to fully realize the documentary and potentially expand into a feature-length film or a docu-series.

Notable Quote:

Daniel Workman (39:05): "Our goal was $38,000 for post-production... We didn't hit our goal, but we're finding ways to reach out."

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Future Plans and Call to Action (46:42 - 49:58)

Looking ahead, Daniel discusses the ambition to showcase "Bear Dogs" in film festivals and possibly pitch for further development into longer formats. He encourages listeners to support the project by visiting the film's official website and engaging with its social media platforms. Daniel underscores the importance of authentic storytelling in bridging cultural gaps and fostering understanding.

Notable Quote:

Daniel Workman (46:42): "BearDogsFilm.com is the best place to go to donate and to learn more about the project."

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Conclusion

Episode 569 of Blood Origins offers a compelling glimpse into Daniel Workman's "Bear Dogs", highlighting the delicate balance between cultural documentation and storytelling. Through Daniel's lens, listeners gain a deeper appreciation for the complexities of bear hunting culture in Appalachia, challenging preconceived notions and fostering a dialogue grounded in truth and understanding.

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Support Daniel Workman and "Bear Dogs":
Visit beardogsfilm.com to watch the trailer, view behind-the-scenes content, and contribute to the crowdfunding efforts.

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Transcript

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[Robbie]

Workman is a cinematographer. He's more than a cinematographer, he's a storyteller. He's a director. And this specific podcast is about a project that he's been working on for about 10 years. He's from Appalachia. He decides to go back to his roots and follow essentially a bear hunter and what the world of bear hunting looks like in Appalachia, specifically West Virginia. And when you watch the teaser, it's, it's pretty like I don't know how to put it. Obviously authentic, definitely in your face, passionate, emotional, familial, harsh, raw. All those things tied into one. So I wanted to have Daniel on the podcast. He's looking for some funding to get this project to the next level and so I wanted to have a conversation with him. He's a great dude, loves his storytelling and he loves this project called Bear Dogs. So enjoy. So there's a reason why I started Blood Origins and that reason is simple, is that I wanted to convey the truth about hunting.

[Daniel Workman]

It brings awareness to non hunters that it's more than just killing animals. How do I start it? Brittany?

[Robbie]

My name.

[Daniel Workman]

Does my hair look okay?

[Robbie]

My name is Mike Axelrod. Start again. Yeah, I hated it too. Braxton, you said something in the car to me. You said that you were living on borrowed time. There's a perception around who hunters are, what we're supposed to be. And a feminist that works for a non profit that is a hunter that has only eaten wild game from the last 20 years is likely not the thing that people think about when it comes to hunter. So you look like a. And I hate Calling people this because you're not. And I don't call my guys this any longer. And to be clear, I am not a cameraman. I'm not a cinematographer. I have a vision. That is where I have, that has got to me, got me where I am today. I have an idea of what I want. I've got an idea of a story, and I hire the best to do it. So based on your background of your image that I see you are a storyteller, a cinematographer, you're not just a cameraman, correct?

[Daniel Workman]

Yeah, I would say that's pretty accurate.

[Robbie]

Why are you being so. Don't be so humble, man. If you're a storyteller, you're a storyteller, man.

[Daniel Workman]

Yeah, I mean, I, I, I guess I don't really worry too much about whether or not I'm a cinematographer, but I'm a storyteller for sure. I'm definitely, I'm like, like you. I like cameras. I really like getting, oh, don't look.

[Robbie]

Don'T put me on a camera. I'm absolutely, I don't even know, like. And all the team that works with me all around the world are going to shake their heads that I've been around them for five, six years. I still get confused. Like, what is an aperture again? And, like, I know what ISO is.

[Daniel Workman]

Sure.

[Robbie]

Shutter speed and aperture, aren't they the same thing? And you're going to be like, robbie, they're not. Okay, I know. I get it.

[Daniel Workman]

Yeah. Yeah. I definitely am a storyteller. You know, I think it, for me, I, I just want to use whatever tools I have available to tell the story that I'm trying to tell. So if that's, if somebody else can do it better, great. You know, I've had other people help me on projects and I work on other people's projects, and sometimes I'm not the best guy for the shot, but, you know, I'm gonna find them if, if there's somebody else, you know.

[Robbie]

Sure, sure, sure. Well, Daniel Workman, welcome to the Blood Origins Podcast. I know that we have interacted back and forth on a number of different things and super excited to have you here on the Blood Origins podcast. Why don't you introduce yourself, who you are, what you do.

[Daniel Workman]

Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. It's, I've been really excited to talk to you, been following along since we connected. So my background is in filmmaking and anthropology, so I'm from southeast West Virginia. I grew up hunting with my dad and my brothers.

[Robbie]

You don't look like an individual that is from southeast Virginia, by the way.

[Daniel Workman]

Southeast West Virginia.

[Robbie]

Southeast West Virginia, yeah. How is that possible? Southeast West. Oh, oh, West Virginia. The actual. Okay, sorry.

[Daniel Workman]

Yeah, the state.

[Robbie]

Okay, okay.

[Daniel Workman]

People from the states miss that. So yeah, I'm from southeast West Virginia. I'm an Appalachian. I've been out here in Denver, Colorado for 15 or I've been in Colorado for 15 years. In Denver for a few.

[Robbie]

Dude, I just flew out of Denver. I was in Denver like Monday through Wednesday last week.

[Daniel Workman]

Oh great. What? How did you, what, What'd you do?

[Robbie]

I took two veterans hunting. I took them turkey hunting. And I know this is one of the first rabbit holes that we'll go down, but I'm telling you now, it is the coolest experience. Like I don't get to hunt very much anymore. I get to go with people hunting and there is no better satisfaction. And I love turkey hunting. Don't get me. I love it. It's. I'm, I'm disease afflicted when it comes to turkey hunting. And we had this veteran who's never turkey hunted before, never really been in the woods turkey hunting. So he doesn't actually know what's happening, right. And we got up early morning, we drove this truck up into this sort of draw. I said turn the truck off. And I yelped out the back of the T. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And halfway through the Y. Look guys, I'm a hunter, right? And when I go hunting, I like to figure out how to get my trophies back home as expeditiously as possible. Well, you don't have to look much further than Safari specialty importers. 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You can email [e-mail] DM US, message us whatever you want. We are not hard to find. Good luck. And I literally put my head in that little back window of a truck and I, excuse my language, I said everybody get the fuck out the truck right now. And people are bailing out the truck. We we position. And it was the classic, classic turkey hunt. The turkey responded, came in, hung up at 90 yards, strutted, gobbled, strutted, gobbled, then disappeared. So then we moved off and we went down to the next draw and then we got in. I was like, all right, the put that turkey's just here. It's like over this ridge. Yelped again, and he's 40 yards behind us. So everyone's, like, scrambling, like, finding a space to, to, to hide, and did the same thing. Went on the ridge, gobbled at everything. Every crow call, he hammered. Crow call, hammered. Not me. I wasn't crow calling. It was the crows. And he then just decided, okay, I'll just. There's a hen over there. And there was truly a hen over there. He just came down silently off the hill, was within, like, 90 yards of me, and he came within, like, I don't know, 50, 50 to 60 of my veteran hunter. And I just soft purred and yelped to just stop him and made a look around, and the veteran shot him. And the coolest part about the whole thing is, again, from a, a storytelling perspective, right? The veteran, we sat him on a rock and we asked him, like, what the experience was like, and he's like, you know, veterans go to war because they, they go and they love it because of the high that they get, this contact high of somebody shooting at them and them shooting back and actually, you know, taking life. There's just this high tie to it. And so when veterans come home, they have to find that high somewhere, and they are getting into drugs to get that high or alcoholism or adulterous relationships and whatnot. And he said, robbie, you gave me a high this morning that I didn't think was possible outside of combat, and I didn't think was possible sober. Wow. And I was just like, wow. And the dude was, like, crying, and obviously he's a veteran, so every second word is an F bomb. And as the camera crew, as cinematography crew, we were laughing because we'll just put, instead of a bleep, we'll put like a turkey gobble as he's like, oh, that's great.

[Daniel Workman]

Amazing. Yeah.

[Robbie]

So, yeah, Denver, Colorado, is where you based. How long have you been in Denver?

[Daniel Workman]

I've been in Denver for a few years, maybe 20, 22. I, I, I've been bopping around Colorado for the last 15 years. But just with, you know, video work, it's just Denver is the place to be. I, I've, I can't leave Colorado. It's just too great. So, you know, this is, yeah, it.

[Robbie]

Does seem like there's a lot of video production you, there's a lot of you guys in, in Denver. Is that because production studios are coming to Denver? What, what's going on There.

[Daniel Workman]

Yeah, we don't have any sound stages here, but we do, you know, a lot of car commercials come through. There's a lot of software commercials and stuff like that. So there is a good commercial scene happening here. And, and so, yeah, we've got a, we've got a tight crew. You know, the, the, the film industry here is just really, it's just like an amazing community. I've never really worked outside of the Denver scene, but from everybody I know who's, who's worked in LA or Atlanta or wherever else, New York, you know, they rave about, you know, how great this community is. And I, I feel at home and, you know.

[Robbie]

Did you move to Denver to do this work? Were you already doing this work in West Virginia?

[Daniel Workman]

Sure. So I could. Yeah, like, maybe I'll give you a little background on how I got into this, so. Because it all involves the film that I'm making, which we're going to talk about today, called Bear Dogs. So I moved out to Colorado when I was 18 in 2009, and I came out here to ski and snowboard. And so I, I moved right outside of Aspen.

[Robbie]

I was gonna say, you probably moved there to be a ski bum.

[Daniel Workman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Robbie]

You got the ponytail for it already. Did you have a ponytail in.

[Daniel Workman]

Yeah, it's come and gone. It's coming gone right now. Not right now. It's here. It's just after I get a few too many bad haircuts, I go, that's the last haircut. I'm growing it out, you know. So, yeah, I moved to Colorado in 2009 to ski, and I kind of was going to community colleges in and out and studying anthropology. I was really into anthropology. The school that I was going to didn't offer a full program, so I just took all the anth classes that I could and jetted from there and then did a bunch of traveling around the world and trying to tell stories and hadn't really developed, you know, like, the visual. My, my visual style as a storyteller yet. And so I went back to school and yeah, I studied cinema and anthropology, got my degrees in those finally. And yeah, moved to the Front Range. Moved from mountains to the Front Range so that I could start working in film and start, you know, I, I'd been working as a photographer for a long time, like around eight years. But whenever I discovered the film that I'm making right now, Bear Dogs, it started as a, as a photo project, and it's kind of what led me into filmmaking and to the film World in general, because I was happy with photography until I ran into this project and I go, this is, you can't tell this story with photos. It's just too much, you know, so it was too loud, it was too fast, it was too exciting. And yeah, so I was just, you know, I sat on it for a long time, put it on the back burner and said, I need to figure out how to tell stories with motion. And I'll be back.

[Robbie]

So did you have to work, did you work in the cinematography field in, in Colorado? Just to make ends meet, obviously. That's how we all typically do it, right? Make ends meet whilst you're doing your passion project on the side. Really? Right.

[Daniel Workman]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's all for the, it's all, you know, it's like you don't end up in this crazy field if you don't want, if you don't have something to say. I don't think, you know, it's like we, we, we do what we got to do to make ends meet. And you know, I love my work. I love, I love running cameras, I love being on sets. I love all of that kind of stuff. You know, it's really chaotic in terms of, you know, being a freelancer. It, it's, you never know what you're in for. It's project based, so that can be really exciting and really stressful at different times. But it's all, you know, it's like I couldn't have this film without having that free time. Anytime my work slows down, I, I get even busier with my own work.

[Robbie]

Yeah. That's awesome, man. That's awesome. So tell me, how did. Obviously you reached out to me. You had heard about me, you've watched Lionheart.

[Daniel Workman]

I, I assume I've watched pieces of it. So I'll tell you something, dude.

[Robbie]

Like, I would stop the podcast right here. That's it, like, done time out. Like you ever watch.

[Daniel Workman]

I had my producer watch it because I, I, you know, there, there are similar subjects.

[Robbie]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Daniel Workman]

And I'm still in the middle of making my film and I've been, I've been having this in my world, telling the story about bear hunting with hounds for, you know, this starting.

[Robbie]

I don't think there is a film. Is there a film out there with bears and dogs?

[Daniel Workman]

No, I don't think so. So that, that was the thing is, you know, I've been working, I've had this, I've been mulling this over for almost 10 years, since 2015 when I started the photo project and in 2023, I started shooting the film and then recently.

[Robbie]

Shooting it by yourself, right?

[Daniel Workman]

That's right. So I. I'm single cameraman. Single cameraman except for a few days where I'm doing interviews and stuff like that.

[Robbie]

Okay.

[Daniel Workman]

So. So I've got a friend in West Virginia who, Who has some equipment.

[Robbie]

Southeast West Virginia.

[Daniel Workman]

Southeast West Virginia, yeah. Did find. Figure out a way to put north in there. So north, like the northern part of southeast West Virginia. Then we'll have all of them. Yeah. So we. We're shooting most of it by myself. Almost all of it. 40 days in the field over an entire year.

[Robbie]

And are you done shooting now or are you still shooting?

[Daniel Workman]

I'm. I'll, you know, until. Until I will keep shooting because this is a passion of mine. This is something. I think it's bigger than just a single film or a single thing. You know, it's like, for me, we can get into this in a little bit. But, you know, this way of hunting is, you know, at risk of going away so.

[Robbie]

Well, it's the most vilified. That's why we built Lionheart. Right. It's the most, arguably the most vilified. Hard to understand, hard to explain hunting practice that there is, which is using a dog, and I'll break this down. Using a dog that everyone perceives as a very domesticated animal that sits on the couch to chase a predator regardless of what that predator is.

[Daniel Workman]

Right.

[Robbie]

And to them, it's just like there's all sorts of elements of fair chase. There's all sorts of elements of it's not fair on the dog, the dog doesn't want to do. Makes it easy. All those things, all those connotations are wrapped up into this practice.

[Daniel Workman]

Totally. There. There's so many complicated aspects to it. But I think, just so I can get back to the. The Lionheart thing, you know, I really did not want. I really didn't want to because I felt like I was. I was the only one doing this for so long with hounds. And, you know, to be honest, only in the last five years was I aware that this was being done for cats as well. Like, I just. In. In my little part of the US where I came from, in. In Appalachia, and all I see is the. The houndsman with hunting bears. But I just, I. I said whenever I finish my edit, I am very excited to watch Lionheart because I don't want it to impact me in my head.

[Robbie]

That's what I was going to say. Either Number one, you're not watching it because you don't want it to influence what it looks like and how it feels, but you also don't want it to. You've got to stick to your own narrative and your own subject matter.

[Daniel Workman]

Yeah, right. But I'm. I. I'm dying to watch it. I'm excited to watch it. My producer said it was awesome, but she also Tell me, she assured me that they're very different.

[Robbie]

Very different.

[Daniel Workman]

So, yeah, that's really great, but I've heard nothing but great things. Every time. When I started pushing out bear dogs, I'll tell you, probably a hundred different people were sending me links to Lionheart, and I was like, all right, I know this. I know what's going on here now. And so. And a lot of people recommended I reach out to you, and. Yeah, so that's why we're here. You know, it's like we both have an interest in this right here. For me, like you said, there's so many. There's a lot of politics involved with hound hunting, and this is something that I think maybe you spent time on and your film. But my film is more. It's. It's yours.

[Robbie]

Yours. Based on what I've seen. Right. I've only seen the. Your teaser trailer. Yours seems a lot raw. Is that a word? Rora. Yeah. And a South African and a southeast West Virginia. I'm trying to say Roro, man. We'll just blend them together. It just seems raw. It seems like very, like, hectic also. Raw. Hectic. And I'll say this, and it was one of the things that I felt when I watched the teaser trailer that I was like, that's an element that I didn't have to deal with, is a perception of ruralness, redneckness, that is Appalachia. That is the culture of Appalachia. And then add on top of that perceptions, culture, ideologies of, this guy's dumb, this guy's uneducated, this guy doesn't understand how to treat animals, has no respect for animals, that kind of thing. Almost amplified because of the Appalachia redneck culture.

[Daniel Workman]

Yeah, I think that's. I think, you know, whenever I started this film or started exploring this project in 2015, I was just getting really involved with photography and wanted to tell stories. I was really in photojournalism and. And wanted to just documentary photography in general, and I wanted to tell stories visually, but using sensibilities from what I learned in anthropology. So, you know, I kind of, you know, view myself as maybe like, A gonzo anthropologist, somebody who's like, you know, just like, I'm not doing necessarily academic field work here, but it's absolutely influenced like my ethics and my sensibilities are, are totally informed by the anthropological lens. And so yeah, I started with, with just my curiosity. I just said this is so crazy. You know, I, I, I grew up around these bear hunters. I grew up around people like this. But even within Appalachian culture, it's like, you know, there's, you can go on down the line of subcultures. You know, we've got our American culture at large and then, you know, Eastern culture, the east coast that Appalachia is kind of a part of, and then you go in further and further and further. And you know, even within Appalachia, bear hunters are, are really not accepted in a lot of even that culture. So I, you know, I, I knew that, that there was, it was only after I had like gone out.

[Robbie]

Why, why are bear hunters not accepted in that Appalachian culture?

[Daniel Workman]

So there's a lot of, there's a lot of reasons that people dislike bear hunters. Hunters probably are their biggest, Other hunters are their bigger, probably their biggest critics. Just with the practices of chasing bears and just having dogs run around all the time. You know, in West Virginia, West Virginia is one of the only states that allows year round training. So it's just like, you know, it's pretty loud in the woods a lot with dogs running around all the time. Because some people have, you know, four to 12 dogs and so there's a lot. And no, almost nobody hunts alone. They all. This is a social thing. You know, this is one of the things that I was trying to focus on in the film that this is like, this is cultural identity. It's not, it's not just people want to focus on the practice and I want people to focus on, on the culture and the meaning. So it's, it's something that people really, that even because having grown up there, I actually had no idea what bear hunting was. I just knew that like, you know, my parents and everyone that I know are just like, those are just rednecks. Those guys are, you know, rowdy and they're knuckleheads. And we don't mess with bear hunters, you know, because they're, you know, it's like it is, West Virginia is really rural. There's not a lot of, like, there's not a lot of. The law isn't around in every nook and cranny of all the hollers. So like, you know, there have been Problems with bear hunters where, you know, they. They're getting. That the dogs are getting into people's properties and bear hunters are cutting down the fences and they're breaking through stuff, and if you piss the wrong one off, they might burn down your cabin. Like, it's all kinds of stuff, you know, that people just have these bad opinions, but, you know, it's. I don't know. I never saw that, but I. I understand that. I. That. That was my understanding that the. That these people just have no. Have. Have absolutely no respect for anyone or anything around them. And that's kind of like what I understood of 100.

[Robbie]

That would be a general perception, right? Sure.

[Daniel Workman]

That's what that was, what I kind of perceived them as my whole life. And I had friends growing up in high school who were bear hunters, and I, you know, I just didn't really press that far into it. But when I was at a bar one night, you know, this is how I started on the photo project. And one. I ran into one of my old friends who's a bear hunter, and he goes. He goes, I'm going in the morning. You coming with me? And I'm like. I'm like, well, you know what? Like, I actually. Because I told him no my whole life, you know, like through high school, but I was like, you know what? I actually, like, if I can bring my camera, like, I'll go. And that's how I. I went out there and just kind of like your veteran friend just being totally flushed with adrenaline and like, wow, I didn't know you could feel this much from being sober and just doing something. And I just had that. I went out there and I go, oh, my. Like, this is. This is insane. You know, like, running, like, driving around fast and chasing dogs and seeing bears jump out in front of the. The. The truck. It's really exciting. It's really, really hard to deny how exciting it is. But it was only that. That's what hooked me. And then what kept me there was the culture and, you know, trying to understand, because I understood that. I understood the adrenaline of it, but I. I wanted to understand everything else. I wanted to understand the relationships with the dogs, the relationships to the land, the relationship, you know, the cultural, social ideologies that come with this and all that kind of stuff. So there was a lot to unpack, and luckily I had just been trained. You know, I'm, like, fresh out of school for studying culture and that kind of stuff, so I was. I was ready to put. To. To use that, you know, and jump in there.

[Robbie]

Yeah, the. It's funny. You, you did the accent. Because that again, just. The accent itself has a perception of redneckness. Dumb, uneducated, you know, disrespectful. Right. Don't. I don't care about anybody. I don't care about anybody's property. I'm gonna do what I do that.

[Daniel Workman]

It's, you know, like, this is the reason why I chose my subject. Kish justice is a bear hunter. He's, he's a, you know, he's a scientist. He's a, he's, he, he works in.

[Robbie]

There's no way he's a scientist. Dude. From that trailer, the way that, that trailer was like, I was like, this.

[Daniel Workman]

Guy is like, yeah, he's a scientist by trade. He works for like a biochem company up in northern West Virginia.

[Robbie]

Wow.

[Daniel Workman]

And yeah, he's highly educated. These people are not stupid. It's, it's like, I love it. I, you know, and, and, and he'll tell you, he's just like, he, he loves being a hillbilly, you know, like. And, and this is kind of, this is the thing about West Virginians. I think a lot of them, not, not I, I can't speak for all West Virginians, but you know, they, they like that, this is. That, that they're misunderstood sometimes, you know, that, that, that it doesn't bother them, you know, because they just are. They, they have their, their culture and you know, like West Virginians are often the butt of a lot of jokes in this, in the, in this country. But yeah, these aren't, these aren't ignorant people. These are highly educated people. They're intelligent. And I think that's what is so exciting about the character that I've chosen is that he's, he's gentle, he's ferocious. You know, he's a father. We're following for the short film we're following, I'm mostly sticking to Kish justice and his 78 year old daughter. And that relationship is just so relation relatable to everyone. And this is how we show the humanity. And one of the things is about this is I'm, I'm not trying to advocate for or against bear hunting like this. That's not, and that's not my job, you know, like my job. I'm not a bear hunter. I do care about hunting, but this, this isn't about my opinions or my agenda on bear hunting. You know, like, I have a responsibility. The way that I'm telling the story, I think to, to, to Give a fair portrayal of. This is like. This is what I've decided that I think should happen because I think so many people would come out of here, you, you'd get somebody who's not from the area, come here and try to. I just don't think they could accurately tell the story. You know, I don't think they would be fair enough. I don't think. And so, yeah, this is, It's. It's really important to me to catch everything and be honest about the, the, the good and the bad and the hard and, you know, the, the truth matters to me. And I think, you know, people have a lot of opinions I've learned on bear hunters, people who are. People who are in. You know, this is the biggest thing is that like, bear hunters have opinions on other bear hunters, big ones, and deer hunters. Every other hunter has big opinions on houndsmen. And then the general public, most of them don't know anything about it. And then they learn and they used. Use a very small amount of information to make sweeping judgments. And then there are people who think they know a lot about it, but they actually probably don't have as much information as you think. And so this film wants. This film is for everyone. It's for everyone on every side of all of the aisle. You know, it's like, it's, it's, it's. It should be inclusive in the, in the sense that it will. People will learn what this is and how it's important as a culture to these people. It's, it's about learning and, and, and looking at the nuance and not just jumping into a, to a radical, you know, generalization or stereotype or, or, you know, opinion. I'm not trying to get anyone to land anywhere. I'm just trying to get people to have the information they would need to make an educated decision. You know, like, I, I'm okay with.

[Robbie]

People, but you're not asking them to make an educated decision on whether bear hunting is good or bad. I think based on what you've just said and what I saw, just very briefly, it sounds like you're wanting people to have more information to make a better judgment around who these hillbilly Appalachian bear hunters are.

[Daniel Workman]

Sure, yeah. I mean, it really is just. It's. This isn't representative of hounds hound hunting culture at all. You know, it's like, this isn't. This is a very, you know, like, the reason why I'm interested in this is because this is not something. This is like. It's a. It's a. It's a. It's one extreme of American culture that most people have no idea that exists. But it's also. I. And I think it's interesting and it's. It's a risk it going away. And whether that's good or bad, it's not. I'm not trying to make that call. I'm just trying to capture it for what it is and. And do that authentically. And yeah, it's. It's really. It's. But I think, you know, whenever I went in, I. I was turn. I was uprooting all of my. My preconceived notions and all of these things that I had beliefs about these people. And it took a. You know, it took a long time. I was changing as a person when you spend this much time with. With people. And I'm not. Of course, I'm not sure that I was. I was convinced. I was trying not to pass judgment, but I was. You know, there was some stuff that.

[Robbie]

Just going, well, it could have gone both ways, right? It could have been like, you actually developed or more of a. Like a, oh, I understand why these guys are hated so much because I've just. I've gotten an inside look and this is not good. Or it's the opposite. Like, oh, wow, just like you said, like going that first time, going with your buddy.

[Daniel Workman]

Right?

[Robbie]

Oh, man, I had no idea, right, about the adrenaline, the insanity, the craziness, the rush, you know?

[Daniel Workman]

Yeah, it's. It's. It's really important, I think, for me to be honest about how it's impacted me. But that's not what I'm trying to, you know, like, the film is. I'm a part of it. I'm obvious. You know, it's like, you know how it is when you're making a film, You. It's. It's a big piece of you, no matter how objective you're trying to be. But, you know, it's a task that I'm willing to take on to try to be as fair as I possibly can. But it. Yeah, it. This is. It's really. Okay. So my idea was. Have you ever. Have you ever spent any time watching any ethnographies? Like, especially anyone's from.

[Robbie]

You're gonna have to dumb that.

[Daniel Workman]

Okay.

[Robbie]

What's an ethnography? Is that an autobiography?

[Daniel Workman]

So. So an ethnography is. Is a. Is a data collection practice for anthropologists. You know, it's like archaeologists are coming up with ideas about dead people, dead civilizations, and ethnographers are in the field, studying alive cultures. And so, like, you're. You're. There's a lot of different mediums. Some of them are books, some of them are. But it's. It's a lot of just collecting information. But there, you know, I. I really have an affinity for ethnographies that I've seen that were made mostly around the 40s, 50s and 60s, when anthropology was really. Visual anthropology and visual ethnographies were getting pretty big or. Yeah. Western people were going into all parts of the world and just With a camera or whatever else and just filming people's practices without. Without telling them it was good or bad. Just showing it.

[Robbie]

This is what.

[Daniel Workman]

This is what they're doing and education, you know, like. So, yeah, there. There's a lot of. I was used to watching ethnographies of, like, these people who seemed. And the way they're shot, like, kind of really is shot in a way that doesn't focus a lot on what they're saying because you can't really understand them anyways. It's just like these. You know, it's not cinema, you know, it's like cameras.

[Robbie]

Yeah, you're looking. It's almost like you're looking through a window into what they do. Every single. In the hut or going through the forest or.

[Daniel Workman]

Yeah, I mean, like, some of them, you know, are as much as just like audio recordings of people chopping wood and chatting. And it's like. That's a very valuable piece of anthropological data if you're trying to understand a certain thing about a culture. But I just had this idea, you know, whenever I was shooting, and I just. I. I was so in love with ethnography and just capturing the rawness and the realness. I thought it was so poetic and beautiful. And, you know, the ones that really left an impression on me were ones that are in South Africa, Botswana, those places where the. Where the native African people, they were like, you know, it shows the whole process of them hunting and killing a giraffe, and it's brutal to watch. You know, it's like watching. Watching that kind of stuff can be difficult, but it's. You know, that's real. That's real. It's like, that's how we learn. So my idea is just like, why can't we do this with our own. You know, why can't I do this within my own culture and just show what it is and without trying to just put out these.

[Robbie]

And then the. In the here and now, like in 2020.

[Daniel Workman]

Yeah. Absolutely. Because it is valuable. But I think there's so much noise happening right now that like these. I. It's just blown my mind that nobody's made anything of significance on the culture that I'm covering. It's so vibrant, it's so big, it's so loud. And whether it's good or bad is not really up to me. It's like. It's just. It's there and I'm there to capture it, you know.

[Robbie]

So let's talk about where you're at right now with the making of be. Are you finished? Are you. I know you're looking for funding. You're in a fundraising sort of. Hey, I've put all this time and effort. I have to eat every other day. So I'm looking to help finish this project.

[Daniel Workman]

Yeah. So right now I've shot over a hundred hours of footage over 40 days. I've got a ton of footage that I shot in 2023 and. And I've been filling in interviews over 2024 and every time I go back, I want to shoot more. It's just, you know, like, I just love going out there and shooting and. But right now we are in post production for the short. And so our, our goal is we. We actually just finished our crowdfunding campaign. It ended, it was a month long, it ended yesterday. But we will have another way for people to donate because we didn't. We hit 85% of our goal. So we've got.

[Robbie]

What was your goal?

[Daniel Workman]

Our goal was $38,000 for post and that includes festival travels, all that kind of stuff, you know, like submissions and traveling and all that kind of stuff. So. And then, you know, just color, legal fees and everything that goes into a big film. So this is a short as 20:15 to 20 minutes. I put around $20,000, traveling back and forth over a year and a half of my own money. And then we wanted to raise money for post production. And so I've been working on the edit. I'm in there. I've been in inside the edit for the last, you know, since we started. So I, I do have an editor now and we're getting started on it. He's made a couple of cuts and we're cutting it down. But the film is coming to life and we've got enough and we've got visions for the docu series and. Or a feature length film. And so the short is really a jumping off point. We wanted to make it as good as we can. You know, I could edit it. I Could color it, I could do the sound. But it'll be a lot better to get like real professionals in there doing that kind of stuff. So we're just getting the best people that we can to make the best story that we can so that we have a good shot during. While we go on the festival circuit to.

[Robbie]

So the short will go into the film festival circuit.

[Daniel Workman]

That's the, that's the goal is we're going to put the short into film festivals and with the intention of pitching to after we get attention with that. And you know we're expecting a successful circuit because the, the amount of attention that we've gotten so far has been pretty incredible. So yeah, we're expecting to do well there and we're expecting to tell an amazing story that's different and, and once.

[Robbie]

You get attention, is that when you decide okay, we now need to build out an hour long hour 15 full length documentary or a docu series. Does a docu series? What is that? Like four 20 minute pieces that all blend into each other?

[Daniel Workman]

Yeah, like for us we would. I like I have. With the footage that we've had, we've organized it a lot and it can be organized in a lot of different ways. But um, we. I've narrowed it down to we. I know that we could make six 45 minute pieces that folk have different focuses for each one on different aspects of it. And if we would do that we would have to shoot. We'd have to raise a little bit more money for production but not much, you know, like. And then. But otherwise I've got everything that we need for a feature and we're working. We're simultaneously preparing for a feature while we're making the short. Just. We're just doing stepping stones here. And so yeah, we're really just hoping to find partners at some point who, who, who have good ideas for where this goes, where the ceiling is for it and distribution plans. This is like my, my job. I keep telling myself. People keep asking me what, what we're doing and all that stuff and this is my, my baby. But I keep going like, like I need to be focused on make, finishing the story. You know, it's like this is where I need to be. So I've got a lot of talent, I've got some talented people on my team who, who are working with me to come up with that trajectory for us. But my goal is to just be as in the story and in the edit as I can. Nobody else can tell this for me. You know, it's like this?

[Robbie]

Sure, of course. All right, so let's, let's people. If people are like, listening, they've listened to you. They're like, man, it's a cool film. I want to see it. I want to get involved. So the crowdfunding efforts has finished right now. You wanted 38,000. How much did you raise?

[Daniel Workman]

We got 32. Five.

[Robbie]

Okay, so you're missing six and a half, Right. All right, so that's what you're looking to raise right now is the six and a half to finish that out or, and. Or plus more?

[Daniel Workman]

Yeah, I mean, like, you know how it is. Like, you can always find ways to, to improve. You know, we, we just said, you know, how we came up with our budget is. We said, okay, if we could make the best short that we possibly could, what would we need? And that's what we came up with. And, and anything above that, just either, either, you know, like, we. If, if we go much above that, then then we're just. Then we're maybe skipping the short and going into. Just going straight into the feature territory, you know, so it just depends on, like, if, if.

[Robbie]

And what's the timeline right now, Daniel? On that? Yeah, like, if. So how much? Answer two questions, timeline. And. Okay, what, what is the number that you're looking for to go, okay, man, we've raised enough money. Let's just go straight in one hour feature film and do it?

[Daniel Workman]

Yeah, the, the feature, it wouldn't be that much more. You know, we, we could do a feature. I think we've calculated just under 60,000. But our timeline right now is we're going to work. If we don't raise any more funds, you know, it's. We're going to work with what we have. We're going to have to make some sacrifices on, on some things. But, you know, this is what filmmaking is, is making sacrifices all the time. So we, we want to get that goal. We want to reach our goal. But right now, next week, I'm meeting with the editor again. We're going to start. We, you know, we're starting our. We're getting into our editing timeline from there, and we'll be picture locked, hopefully by midsummer, and then we will be applying to festivals in the fall. And so anybody who supported the film, who. Who supports the film will get a link to the film before, you know, it's like, that's one of the ways that we'll be able to. We have all kinds of tiers.

[Robbie]

Yeah. Little tears.

[Daniel Workman]

Right. So, you know, once we get into film Festivals, you know, it's like we're in pitch mode and we're trying to. We're trying to get this in front of as many people as possible. We think it's worth doing with this film. So, yeah, we're excited about a possible feature and a possible docu series, but the only thing that really is holding us back from that is funding and distribution. So those are things that we're trying to get to.

[Robbie]

Okay. If people want more information on the film, see the trailer, understand where they could potentially, you know, send a couple of bucks your way. Like, where can people do that?

[Daniel Workman]

Yeah, people can go to bear dogs film.com and there you can find all the information about the film. You can see a gallery of photos I've taken from the beginning of the project till now. You'll see trailers, you'll see all kinds of stuff. You'll. You can learn about, you know, the goal of the film and what we're doing and its history and all that stuff. So there's a lot of great stuff on there. That's where I'd go. You can also follow bear dogs on TikTok and that. I'd have to actually think of that. But on. On Instagram, we're. We're pretty active. On Instagram, it is Bear Dogs underscore film. And then that's. Those are great places. I'm always putting out information on those platforms. But beardogsfilm.com is the best place to go to to donate and to learn more about the project.

[Robbie]

We got some crazy photos on this website that have nothing to do with Bear Dogs.

[Daniel Workman]

Oh, yeah.

[Robbie]

Concept works, apparitions. Geez.

[Daniel Workman]

Yeah, there's.

[Robbie]

That crazy fool.

[Daniel Workman]

Yeah, that's. It's kind of linked up with my personal site right now, but nobody has to go visit my work stuff. That's. That's just work stuff.

[Robbie]

And there's. Well, that's Bear Dogs, interestingly enough. That's where it took me. I took. I. If you don't know that or not, I typed in beardogsfilm.com and it took me to the modern negative dot com, FYI.

[Daniel Workman]

Yeah, it's definitely. That's the. That's the main site that. Because that's. My production company is the Modern Negative llc. So, yeah, I'll have to check on that to make sure it's all linked up and running properly. We did have. Because we were redirecting people to the crowdfunding campaign, and that just ended yesterday.

[Robbie]

I might have Seed and Spock. Yep, yep.

[Daniel Workman]

Have to tweak things back to yeah.

[Robbie]

Well you'll also see Daniel with a beautiful mustache and no beard.

[Daniel Workman]

Yeah, it. I'm always changing it up.

[Robbie]

Well dude, I I hope we can figure out a way to help you. That's the point of this podcast. And if anybody needs more information, Again, bear dogs, film.com and watch the trailer. The trailer's badass. And then reach out to Daniel and see if you can help him.

[Daniel Workman]

Awesome.

[Robbie]

Succeed. So looking forward to doing.

[Daniel Workman]

Yeah. Thanks so much Robbie. I really appreciate you having me on here. It's been fun.

[Robbie]

Well, that's it for today. I appreciate you listening. As always, leave a review, share it with your friends, and most importantly, do what's right to convey the truth around.

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[Daniel Workman]

For the hunt and learn from the best with deer and deer hunting Wednesdays at 10pm Eastern on Waypoint TV. Tune in every week for expert hunting tips and unforgettable moments in the field. Waypoint tv, your destination for outdoor entertainment.