The Origins Foundation Podcast

Episode 592 – Charles Cagnat || French Whiskey And Deer

Release Date: September 11, 2025
Host: The Origins Foundation (Robbie)
Guest: Charles Cagnat, French whiskey distiller & fallow deer farmer, Domaine Dola Pez

Episode Overview

This episode explores the unique intersection of French whiskey production and fallow deer farming with guest Charles Cagnat, proprietor of Domaine Dola Pez in southeast France. The conversation delves into France’s growing whiskey industry, the history and specifics of fallow deer farming, and the intricacies of how deer meat integrates into French food systems and culture. With personal anecdotes, historical context, and a frank discussion of conservation and changing consumer attitudes, the episode offers a rare perspective on sustainable agriculture, culinary traditions, and the perceptions surrounding game meat in France.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Charles Cagnat’s Background & Domaine Dola Pez

• Charles’ Story ([12:20–14:09])
  • 35 years old; from rural southwest France (“the empty diagonal”)
  • Family castle/estate since the 13th century, still in family for 450 years; Charles is 14th generation
  • Left for international business (Cambodia; wine & spirits), then returned to establish a distillery and modernize the family farm

2. The Rise of French Whiskey

• Misconceptions & Expansion ([04:29–12:01])
  • Contrary to stereotype, France now has over 200 whiskey distilleries
  • France is the world’s largest consumer of whiskey per capita
  • Much of the world’s whiskey barley originates in France, even for Scotch
  • Historical note: Louis XIV forbade distillation of barley, shaping regional traditions

Notable Quote:

"In France, we are not drinking cognac nor Armagnac. We're drinking whiskey." – Charles Cagnat [05:08]

• Whiskey distillation is now widespread—major regions: Alsace (east) and Brittany (west, with Celtic roots)

Fun Fact:

"One beer out of four in the world is made out of French barley." – Charles Cagnat [10:44]

3. Fallow Deer Farming at Domaine Dola Pez

• The Setup ([14:47–15:09])

  • 160 hectares (approx. 400 acres); 100 hectares (250 acres) are high-fenced for fallow deer
  • Largest fallow deer farm in France: about 1,000 animals

• Farming Practices ([15:33–16:46])

  • Deer fed hay and barley grown on the estate
  • “Spent grain” from whiskey distilling is given to deer as winter supplement

• Why Fallow Deer? ([16:54–18:41])

  • Mother switched from cows, then sheep (too time-consuming, not profitable), to fallow deer: less labor-intensive, niche market, allows price-setting, and suits family life balance

4. Market and Culinary Aspects of Fallow Deer

• Market Structure ([18:41–20:49])
  • Majority of deer are sold for meat, with a small live market for other producers and hunting estates
  • 200–250 fallow deer slaughtered per year, mostly at 18 months old
  • Meat is highly tender, mild-flavored (“optimum of tenderness; you don't have any taste of venison”), can be eaten close to raw

Notable Quote:

"For the meat we sell about 200 to 250deers per year, 18 months old. ...the optimum of the tenderness of the meat." – Charles Cagnat [19:06]

• French Game Meat Regulations & History ([20:49–29:57])
  • Fallow deer are non-native; originally brought by Romans, always raised in enclosed estates for nobility
  • Selling wild game is regulated but possible: slaughterhouses with veterinary controls stamp carcasses for sale, including occasionally from hunters (regional, limited)
  • Domaine Dola Pez processes deer in-house with a government exemption and supplies supermarkets mainly at Christmas/New Year, selling cuts as “kits”—the full breakdown of one animal at a time

Notable Quote:

"We sell everything to supermarkets in whole France... It's a very small amount, of course, because the animals are small when they're killed." – Charles Cagnat [30:00]

• Cuts & Gastronomy ([30:36–33:57])
  • French butchery and preferred cuts differ from U.S. approaches; includes steak, roasts, and “civet” for slow cooking
  • Liver is a popular specialty; little is ground into mince
  • Historically exported to Japan before mad cow restrictions; now exploring more restaurant partnerships as attitudes shift—chefs are interested in whole-animal, local sourcing

Notable Quote:

"The mindset of the restaurateurs is really changing in France... we can try different dishes with the less noble parts." – Charles Cagnat [33:57]

5. Changing Attitudes: Food, Conservation, and Anti-Hunting Sentiments

• Local & Sustainable Ethos ([35:03–36:21])
  • Transparency and animal welfare increasingly matter to French consumers
  • On-farm slaughter now a selling point: “...the animals are slaughtered on the estate in the place they always know is a positive point for people...”

Notable Quote:

"The point of that we were killing them into the estate was something we were absolutely not speaking about I think maybe five years ago. But now... it's starting to be a saves point to meat consumer." – Charles Cagnat [35:57]

• Dealing with Animal Rights Activism ([36:21–37:59])
  • Occasional critical emails or vandalism (cut fences), but less severe than in UK
  • Fallow deer tend to stay in herds and rarely leave even if fences are breached

6. Charcuterie & Additional Uses ([37:59–39:15])

• Venison charcuterie exists in France (sausages, pâtés), though always mixed with pork for texture
• Common at countryside markets; more products possible if business grows

7. Whiskey Production Philosophy ([40:13–40:46])

• Focuses on single-barley, single-terroir whiskey—one vintage per year
• “With a wine approach, you do one barley per year, so it’s the taste of the terroir and the vintage. And done. Finished.”

Notable Quote:

"I’m making, with a wine approach, you do one barley per year and so it's the taste of the terroir and the taste of the vintage." – Charles Cagnat [40:22]

Notable Quotes

• On French whiskey culture:

  "Whiskey has been introduced in France after the Second World War, of course. ... In France, we are not drinking cognac nor Armagnac. We're drinking whiskey." – Charles Cagnat [05:45, 06:08]

• On genetic diversity of fallow deer:

  "All the population that you have in Europe is coming from this population. ... The genetic diversity of the deer is very, very, very small. But you don't have any mutations caused by that. ... So, it's interesting also to see why it's not a problem." – Charles Cagnat [21:44]

• On consumer trends:

  "Now, when you start to speak about the fact that the animals are slaughtered on the estate in the place they always know is a positive point for people to hear." – Charles Cagnat [35:57]

Memorable Moments

• The host’s reaction to French whiskey drinkers outpacing even the Scots and Indians ([05:39–06:08])
• Anecdote about importing French fallow deer meat to Japan before the mad cow crisis ([32:34–33:17])
• Describing how escaped fallow deer tend to return, preferring safety in their herd ([37:22])

Useful Information & Links

• Domain Dola Pez (Domaine de la Pez): Website (correct spelling and pronunciation provided in-episode)
• Find Charles: Google “peze whiskey” or visit domain website

Suggested Sections to Listen To

• French whiskey and barley: [04:29–12:01]
• Introduction & design of the fallow deer farm: [14:09–16:46]
• The French legal landscape and history of game meat sales: [20:49–29:57]
• Changing consumer attitudes and anti-hunting pressures: [35:03–37:59]
• Gastronomy and shifting restaurant interest in game: [33:32–34:50]

Overall Tone & Takeaway

In an open and inquisitive conversation, this episode spotlights two niche but growing French specialties—whiskey and deer farming—while highlighting broader shifts in sustainable food, conservation funding, and rural enterprise. Charles’ candid perspective bridges ancient aristocratic traditions with modern, transparent agriculture, providing not just practical insights but a thoughtful case for embracing transparency, sustainability, and localism in the future of food and wildlife management.