The Origins Foundation Podcast Episode 595 - Richard York || Delisting Bontebok At CITES
Date: September 23, 2025
Host: The Origins Foundation
Guest: Richard York, CEO of Wildlife Ranching South Africa (WRSA)
Topic: Proposal to delist Bontebok from CITES Appendix II
Overview
In this episode, the Origins Foundation speaks with Richard York, CEO of Wildlife Ranching South Africa (WRSA), about the proposal to delist the bontebok, an antelope endemic to South Africa, from Appendix II of the CITES treaty. This is framed as a landmark case for conservation success through science-based wildlife management, sustainable use, and hunting in South Africa. The conversation addresses the science behind the proposal, CITES process and politics, private sector leadership, and broader implications for conservation policy.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Richard York’s Background & South African Wildlife Conservation
- Introduction of Richard York and his role as CEO of WRSA, representing South Africa's private wildlife ranching sector.
- Emphasis on South Africa's biodiversity: “We are the third most biodiverse country in the world…” (04:48).
- Historical context: South Africa nearly wiped out its wildlife in the 1950s due to disease and policies; the Game Theft Act (1991) allowed private citizens to own and manage wildlife, catalyzing population recovery (05:00–06:14).
- 17% of South Africa’s landmass is under some form of wildlife management thanks to the private sector.
2. Game Theft Act & The Role of Fencing
- Fencing as a necessity for private wildlife ownership in South Africa; without fences, ownership and management are impossible (09:57).
- Private land under wildlife management is much greater than state/national parks (205,000 vs. 78,000 sq.km, respectively) (11:00).
- Economic incentives and private management are drivers of conservation success.
3. The Value of Wildlife and Dangers of Trade Bans
- Three key messages:
- Wildlife must outperform alternative land uses to remain viable.
- The wildlife economy is South Africa's "renewable and sustainable gold."
- Trade bans render wildlife valueless to rural people, posing the greatest risk (12:18–14:07).
- Bontebok: 75% conserved on private land; financial models based on sustainable trade and hunting underpin their recovery.
4. CITES and the Case for Delisting Bontebok
- CITES: international convention that lists species on appendices regulating trade. Delisting requires strong science, public participation, and international politics (14:07–15:36).
- Bontebok population recovery: From 17 individuals in 1930 to over 9,800–11,000 today (17:40).
- “We’ve got the evidence that we’ve grown the population, we’ve got the evidence that the population’s biggest threats... is not trade. Trade is not a threat.” (17:56)
- No evidence of illegal trade; hunting seen as part of the solution by providing value and driving habitat expansion.
5. Political Hurdles at CITES
- Required: 2/3 majority (120/180 votes) for delisting (20:54).
- Europe votes as a bloc, heavily influencing outcomes.
- Unique position: Bontebok are only found in South Africa; South African government’s voice should be primary (21:24).
- "If the other countries turn against it and say, no, sorry, we're not going to delist it, well then they're actually proving to us and they're showing to us that CITES is broken." (21:24)
6. Scientific Safeguards & Population Management
- Four main threats (none related to trade or hunting):
- Limited optimal habitat in the Western Cape.
- Small, fragmented populations (mitigated by a biodiversity management plan).
- Low genetic variation in the natural range (but higher on private lands).
- Hybridization with blesbok—strict regulations, DNA testing, and culling of hybrids (24:40–26:16).
- Ongoing cooperation with the US Fish & Wildlife Service and others for transparency and best practices (27:07).
7. Data, Transparency, and Technology in Wildlife Management
- Two major population-monitoring databases under development: one by government (SANBI), one by WRSA.
- Electronic hunting registers and traceability for trophy exports; digitalization to replace outdated paper systems (32:11–36:17).
- Disease control and traceability systems in wildlife movement—now matching or exceeding those in livestock.
8. Arguments For and Against Delisting
- Main pushback: concern that hunting-driven value is not a legitimate conservation tool, emotional vs. scientific reasoning (29:26).
- Economic reality: “If a proposal like this goes to CITES and I’m a Bontebok breeder and it gets shot down… I’d rather just keep blesbok then because a blesbok I can export without any paperwork…” (29:35)
- Delisting reduces administrative burden and boosts private investment in conservation.
- Modern population monitoring and management plans are in place.
9. Implications for Conservation Policy and CITES System
- “The day CITES succeeds is not by uplifting more species onto CITES, it’s the day we have no species listed on CITES. That’s the day CITES succeeds and that’s the message that we must carry across.” (41:18)
- Richard York calls Bontebok the CITES "success story" and argues that failure to delist undercuts the purpose and credibility of CITES.
- Coalition building: The SUKA coalition (Sustainable Use Coalition—11 membership organizations) is working with government to present unified positions and evidence for CITES.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On Ownership and Fencing:
“Without fences in South Africa, you can't own the wildlife. So the Game Theft act is basically written that as soon as you put a fence around your property, you are then entitled and in charge of those animals…” — Richard York, (09:57) -
On Trade Bans and Community Value:
“The biggest threat to wildlife is when it becomes valueless to rural people… And trade bans do nothing except that they make it valueless to rural people.” — Richard York, (12:18) -
Bontebok Population Recovery:
“Bontebok now is sitting at between 9,819 to 11,000 individuals. So there's been a remarkable growth…” — Richard York, (17:56) -
On the Integrity of CITES:
“If the other countries turn against it and say, no, sorry, we're not going to delist it, well then they're actually proving to us and they're showing to us that CITES is broken.” — Richard York, (21:24) -
On CITES’ True Mission:
“The day CITES succeeds is not by uplifting more species onto CITES, it’s the day we have no species listed on CITES.” — Richard York, (41:18) -
Tied to Local, Not International, Interests:
“The Bontebok is only endemic to South Africa. So it is a species that we should be the only country that really has a say.” — Richard York, (21:24) -
On Science versus Emotion:
“I've still got confidence in cites. I've still got confidence in the science. Not the emotion, the science.” — Richard York, (37:20)
Timestamps for Important Segments
- South African Conservation History / Game Theft Act: 04:48–06:14, 09:57
- SA Private Land Under Conservation vs. Public Parks: 10:59–12:18
- Discussion of Bontebok CITES Listing / Delisting Science: 15:36–20:43
- Overview of CITES Process & Politics: 20:54–22:35
- Main Threats to Bontebok: 22:40–24:51
- Blesbok/Bontebok Crossbreeding and DNA Protocols: 25:50–27:07
- Challenges for Delisting & Impact if Denied: 29:26–32:11
- Digital Population Management Systems: 32:11–36:17
- Implications for CITES if Delisting Fails: 36:17–41:40
Closing Thoughts
- The episode frames Bontebok management as a model for modern conservation—combining private economic incentives, scientific monitoring, and strong regulatory frameworks.
- Richard York and WRSA contend that delisting is merited on scientific and management grounds, and that failure to do so would highlight fundamental flaws in the CITES system.
- The discussion concludes with optimism about the science-driven proposal and a call to use this story to correct misconceptions and advance the narrative that sustainable hunting supports conservation.
For listeners interested in international conservation policy, wildlife management, and the intersection of economics and environmental protection, this episode provides a clear, science-based case study in the power—and complications—of sustainable use.