Episode 596 - Sean Kilkenny || Big Wins For Australian Hunting

Summary

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The Origins Foundation Podcast

Episode 596 - Sean Kilkenny || Big Wins For Australian Hunting

Date: September 25, 2025
Host: Robbie (The Origins Foundation)
Guest: Sean Kilkenny (Lead, Advocacy and Deer Management, Australian Deer Association)

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Episode Overview

This episode explores a watershed moment for Australian hunting—specifically the historic reopening of two major Victorian national parks (Snowy River and Errinundra) to public deer hunting. Host Robbie welcomes back Sean Kilkenny to unpack how the hunting community in Australia, often on the defensive in a challenging cultural landscape, has managed to secure landmark wins after decades of advocacy. The conversation dives into the significance of public land access, the long timeline and political strategies behind these achievements, the future of sustainable hunting in Australia, and hopes for further expansion.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Setting the Scene: The State of Hunting in Australia

• Regulatory Structure

  • Hunting is highly regulated; each state/territory sets its own rules ([04:37]).
  • Public land is “our lifeblood”—providing access regardless of wealth or connections.
  • National parks are typically not hunter-accessible, making progress rare and significant ([05:38], [06:16]).

• Victorian Context ([09:49])

  • Prior to this win, hunters could access state forests and some national parks (esp. Alpine National Park—600,000 hectares).
  • Smaller national parks open to hunting exist, but only those with significant deer populations attract hunting advocacy.

The Big Win: Opening Snowy River and Errinundra National Parks

• Historic Expansion

  • Pending legislation will open two large and previously inaccessible public lands: Snowy River and Errinundra National Parks—“130,000 hectares” or roughly “320,000 acres” ([14:58]-[15:20]).
  • This marks an increase comparable to 50% of previous public hunting area ([15:20]).

• Decades of Advocacy ([13:53])

  • These parks have housed wild deer for “well over half a century,” but have been closed to legal hunting since becoming national parks in the late 1970s and 1980s.
  • “Back in the early 1980s...the genesis of people having the desire to hunt in Snowy River was there, but it just wasn’t legal” ([15:17]).

• Process and Political Breakthrough

  • Advocacy efforts intensified in the past five years, coinciding with a push to preserve duck hunting ([19:49]).
  • “One of the challenges is...you got to be able to get in front of politicians, you got to be a credible voice, establish yourself as...trusted and respected...” ([20:35])
  • Key: A new premier and environment minister “with a new attitude towards outdoor recreation”—creating the right timing for progress ([21:54]).

Navigating the Political Process

• Legislative Pathway
  • As of recording, the Victorian government (already supportive) will table the bill to update the National Parks Act.
  • Expected to pass by August for a February 2026 effective date—“effective February 2026, people are going to have access...that they’ve never had...whilst it’s been a national park” ([26:04]-[26:58]).
  • Political risks remain, but strong upper house support among outdoor recreation advocates ([27:25]-[29:00]).

Arguments and Advocacy Strategies

• Public Safety and Coexistence

  • The parks are “quite remote...not exactly brimming with people”—main visitors at holiday periods ([23:15]).
  • “Whilst they’re there, we won’t hunt...Just like in the Alpine National Park, we have seasonal arrangements” ([23:38]).
  • Decades of proven coexistence between hunters and other users in Alpine National Park were critical in persuasion ([24:50]).

• Economic, Social, and Conservation Rationale

  • No significant cost to the state—just a legislative amendment ([25:17]).
  • Hunting community argued for multi-use public lands, post-pandemic outdoor engagement, and hunter-funded conservation ([23:15]-[25:17]).

Broadening Horizons: What’s Next?

• Momentum in Other States

  • New South Wales pushing for new state forests; Northern Territory’s Litchfield National Park recently opened ([29:55]).
  • Expansion in Queensland faces huge hurdles—minimal existing public land access or supportive government ([30:49]-[31:58]).

• Long-Term Culture Shift

  • Advocacy aims to move beyond “shooting culture” to a “celebrated hunting culture...tied to the sustainable use of wild, wildly sourced protein” ([31:58]-[34:30]).
  • Robbie observes: “I think the narrative that hunting culture in Australia should champion is...It’s a food culture. It’s a sustainable use of the resource culture” ([34:30]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Landmark Progress

  • “It’s been one of the better months to understate it. It’s been a lot of hard work that led to this culmination of an outcome...You really need to step back and enjoy them when they do happen.”
    — Sean Kilkenny ([03:55])

• On the Importance of Public Land

  • “Public land, that’s our lifeblood. Public land is everything. If you have access to public land...how much money you’ve got, you have the ability to hunt on the same land that anybody else does in Australia.”
    — Sean Kilkenny ([04:37])

• On Advocacy Realism

  • “The default position for all this stuff is always a no. So you have to work hard to get a yes.”
    — Sean Kilkenny ([09:49])

• On the Outcome

  • “Opening up 130,000 hectares, 320,000 acres to new hunting opportunities. Huge. Massive.”
    — Robbie ([35:49])
  • “Once it’s done, I’ll believe it...you don’t believe anything until the proof’s in the pudding. But we are really, really, really close.”
    — Sean Kilkenny ([36:18])

• On Culture Building

  • “We want...a more embraced and celebrated hunting culture in Australia that ties back into the sustainable use of wild, wildly sourced protein.”
    — Sean Kilkenny ([31:58])

• On Generational Impact

  • “This win isn’t about us, it’s about—it’s a generational thing...my kids...now they’re going to grow up...their norm will be...access to this public land. Whereas I grew up and the norm was you didn’t.”
    — Sean Kilkenny ([36:18])

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Important Timestamps

• Victorian public land regulations explained: [04:37]-[06:16]
• Alpine National Park's unique status: [09:49]-[11:41]
• History of Snowy River & Errinundra parks: [13:32]-[15:17]
• Personal story—the “Sambar stag” cover photo: [15:20]
• Consequences of illegal hunting in parks: [16:31]
• Government deer control measures: [17:51]-[18:36]
• The five-year push, political change and approach: [19:49]-[22:53]
• Addressing concerns about public safety: [23:15]-[24:50]
• The legislative path and what’s next: [26:04]-[29:09]
• Long-term strategy & cultural aspirations: [31:58]-[34:30]
• Personal reflections and generational impact: [36:18]-[37:21]

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Summary and Takeaway

This episode is a deep-dive into a pivotal victory for Australian hunting—a territory where progress is hard-won and cultural change is gradual. Through Sean Kilkenny’s candid and knowledgeable commentary, listeners learn about the persistent, strategic advocacy that made possible the opening of 320,000 new acres for hunting. The discussion highlights how this “run on the board” is rooted in decades of effort, strategic partnership with policymakers, and an evolving vision for a hunting culture centered on sustainability, food, and responsible community stewardship.

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For those passionate about hunting, conservation, or outdoor policy worldwide, this landmark episode illustrates not just a proud milestone, but a playbook for succeeding against the odds—and lays out the road ahead for further progress.

Transcript

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[Robbie (Podcast Host)]

FishingBooker Fishing trips made easy Sean Kilkenny is the lead for advocacy and deer management with the Australian Deer Association. We've heard Sean Kilkenny on the podcast before, but I specifically wanted him back on the podcast because Australia is, is a, is a culture typically that is anti hunting and you're typically very much on your back foot, even more on the back foot than say America or Europe. But the Australian hunting community is starting to put some massive wins on the board. Massive runs on the board and they have literally just opened massive hunter opportunity. It hasn't passed the legislator. You'll hear about this in the podcast. But there's two massive national parks in Victoria that are about to be reopened to hunting. It's about 320,000 acres of prime hunting for sambar. And so I wanted to have Sean Kilkenny on here to just talk about the process, talk about the history, talk about what's how do, how is this getting over the finish line and then what's next. So enjoy. So there's a reason why I started Blood Origins and that reason is simple, is that I wanted to convey the truth about hunting.

[Sean Kilkenny]

It brings awareness to non hunters that it's more than just killing animals.

[Robbie (Podcast Host)]

How do I start it?

[Sean Kilkenny]

Brittany?

[Robbie (Podcast Host)]

My name.

[Sean Kilkenny]

Does my hair look okay?

[Robbie (Podcast Host)]

It's fantastic.

[Sean Kilkenny]

My name is. Is my Axelrod.

[Robbie (Podcast Host)]

Start again. Yeah, I hated it too. Braxton, you said something in the car to me. You said that you were living on borrowed time. There's a perception around who hunters are, what we're supposed to be, and A A feminist that works for a nonprofit that is a hunter that has only eaten wild game for the last 20 years is likely not the thing that people think about when it comes to a hunter. Returning guest Sean Kill. Kenny, Australian Deer Association. I can't remember what your. Your past title. You might have increased your title since last we spoke. Welcome back to the Blood Origins podcast, my man.

[Sean Kilkenny]

No worries. Glad to be on here, Robbie. It's always a pleasure.

[Robbie (Podcast Host)]

Current title at Australian Deer Association. The same as before?

[Sean Kilkenny]

Yeah, it's still the lead of advocacy and deer management.

[Robbie (Podcast Host)]

Lead of advocacy and deer management. I'll just jump straight into it, man. You know, one of the reasons. The reason I wanted to have you on so we've had a couple of fucking big wins on the board in Australia. Excuse my language. You guys have put some runs on the board.

[Sean Kilkenny]

Yeah, yeah, look, it's been. It's been one of the better months to understate it. It's been really good. It's been a lot of hard work that sort of led to this culmination of an outcome. You know, it doesn't take a day to achieve these things, but we really need to step back and enjoy them when they do happen.

[Robbie (Podcast Host)]

Okay, so let's set the scene. For those that may not understand hunting in. In Australia, deer hunting specifically. Can you give us just a brief overview of what that looks like? Is it a free for all? Is it a permitting system, is it a licensing system? Where can you hunt? That kind of stuff?

[Sean Kilkenny]

Yeah, so the general answer is that it's not a free for all, and it's pretty heavily regulated. And each state slash territory has their own set of regulations. The reality is, the most popular states, you know, Victoria, New South Wales and Tasmania, there are also states that do have access or provide access to deer hunters on public land. There are other states that do have deer hunting, such as, say, Queensland and also South Australia and to a lesser extent, Western Australia. But all of that is then dependent on a deer hunter being able to get access through an arrangement with a private property. So obviously that in itself is quite prohibitive. Whereas public land, that's our. Our lifeblood. Public land is everything. So if you can have access to public land, it means no matter who you are, how much money you've got, you have the ability to hunt on the same land that anybody else does in Australia, then we generally have falling underneath that. The public land is what type of tenure does that public land fall on, fall under? And you generally have two types where they're sort of Effectively a state forest or a national park. And national parks, like national parks around the world generally have that through at least name or features a bit more prestigious. They're in more iconic areas generally probably more popular because you know, they do also sort of attract tourists in that sense. But then that also has implications on their management and what use they can be used for by the public.

[Robbie (Podcast Host)]

So let's talk about Victoria specifically because this is where the winds came on the board. In Victoria you can hunt, obviously you can hunt private, but what can you hunt publicly before this win? And how much area do you know how much area you could have hunted publicly in Victoria? Look guys, I'm a hunter, right? And when I go hunting, I like to figure out how to get my trophies back home as expeditiously as possible. Well, you don't have to look much further than Safari Specialty importers. We know that trophy importation can be quite a headache. That's why Safari Specialty Importers strives to make it as easy and hassle free as possible. They have access to a bonded warehouse, you won't be charged storage fees and you get a dedicated team that's readily available and will update you at every step in the process. They'll even go one step further. Safari Specialty Importers is working with us and they are going to donate $100 from every shipment that they work with to conservation projects that include anti poaching, community development and wildlife conservation. At the end of the day, choose to spend your money with a team that's dedicated to you and is dedicated to helping show how hunting is a great conservation model. Hassle free logistics, fuel and conservation go with Safari Specialty importers. Hunting and shooting suppressed have become the norm in over 42 states where suppressors are legal. The growing popularity of suppressors has even led to legislative changes. You might have heard some things around the big beautiful bill, right? Including the reduction of the NFA mandated tax stamp. Before you used to pay 200 bucks and now starting January 1st of 2026, the tax stamp is going to zero. However, why wait until January 1st? Our partners, Silence Essential, great friends of ours, they're going to pay your tax stamp right now. So if you buy a banished suppressor or other popular brands that essentially are qualifying purchases, Silence Essential is going to cover the cost of the tax stamp. They're going to save you 200 bucks right now. So make sure you don't miss out. Shooting suppressed if you're in the market for a new suppressor, whether it's your first or your next one, visit silenceesscentral.com or call them 866-811-6536. Silence Essential is going to cover your tax stamp right now. They're going to simplify the submission process and deliver your suppressor right to your door. Don't wait. Get your suppressor right now and start shooting. Suppress this season. Bushnell is eager to help you get set up for conservation success. That's right. They want to help you. The conservation and research community is dominated by good people doing good things and investing significant time and effort for the benefit of habitat and the species. So what do you need to do? Pretty simple. Send us your conservation story and or your conservation wish. Could be managing whitetails, could be understanding your environment or species or something else related to conservation. What would you be able to do if you had a great trail camera setup? We will select the best story every other month and send you a camera bundle. Cell camera, normal SD camera, SD cards, as well as optics. Everything you need to get set up for success. I can't wait to see what you submit. You can email us, DM us, message us whatever you want. We are not hard to find. Good luck.

[Sean Kilkenny]

Yeah. So the reality was 20 so before this, the two main land tenures in Victoria were state forest and national parks. Victoria is quite progressive in that it does enable you to have access to certain national parks, not all of them, but a significant amount of them. And that also is a result of your advocacy work that, you know, particularly the ADA has led the fight on to open up. Because the reality is the default position for all this stuff is always a no. So you have to work hard to get a yes. And up until this point, sort of the jewels in the crown for the national park access were the Alpine National Park. That's kind of the one that's up high. It's got the breathtaking landscape, the scenery. That's where a lot of the guys do their remote backpack hunts, where they'll go in there for a week, then come back out. It's heavily featured on the YouTube videos of guys that get up and out about. So that's kind of been the headline there that everyone sort of aspired to have. And that in itself, the total park is about 600,000 hectares. So it's a very big park. It covers a significant part of Invictoria. It's called the high country. So for those playing at home, you know, if you look at Australia, down the whole eastern seaboard, there's called the Great Dividing Range. That's probably similar to like what you'd have in the west coast, the Rockies that goes down the coast there. We've got an equivalent per se. And that mountain range in Victoria obviously affects the eastern part of the state. And that's where our generally, particularly our Samadhir population is found. So that's where the de. Hunting occurs.

[Robbie (Podcast Host)]

And that's where you could, before this decision, you could hunt alpine.

[Sean Kilkenny]

Yes, that's right. Yeah. So in the early 1980s, when that was declared a national park, the ADA worked quite tirelessly to help ensure that recreational dehunning could continue in that area.

[Robbie (Podcast Host)]

Okay. So that was the only national park in Victoria you could hunt.

[Sean Kilkenny]

There's quite a few others. There's like the Lake Yilda national park, there's the Mitchell River National Park. There's quite a few other smaller ones that are around, but they're not seen as popular or as a destination. You know, the reality is you can't sort of unlock a national park that has no deer in it. Yeah. It's not really attractive to many people.

[Robbie (Podcast Host)]

Yeah. So. So. And state forests and stuff. All state forests are open in Victoria for hunting.

[Sean Kilkenny]

Yes. As a general rule of thumb, your state forests will be available to recreational hunting there. Some. Quite a few state forests do adjoin national parks. And so you have areas that are quite desirable as that to. To attend for a deer hunter, but then you also have ones that just have no deer or anything in them. So they're not really a. Attractive for that purpose.

[Robbie (Podcast Host)]

Yeah, sure. And not somewhere that you're going to invest your advocacy efforts to increase hunter opportunity.

[Sean Kilkenny]

No, that's right. It's. You have to be very measured about where you put your efforts because you can only do so much.

[Robbie (Podcast Host)]

Yeah, a hundred percent. So talk me through, because I think a lot of people, again, don't really understand process.

[Sean Kilkenny]

Right.

[Robbie (Podcast Host)]

They don't understand politics and they think like runs on the board, as you said, just came out of, you know, hey, we, we asked the, we asked the government yesterday and today they said, sure, no problems. Let's. We'll open up hunting. So what led to maybe take us back to how this whole, this whole thing started. Had you guys already identified, like we want to, you know, we potentially want to open up hunting in Snowy River. What's the other national park that you got access to?

[Sean Kilkenny]

And. And the Iranundra National Park.

[Robbie (Podcast Host)]

Iranundra, yeah.

[Sean Kilkenny]

So, yeah, so both of those parks are in the eastern part of the state, so less populated areas, but still they've. They've held wild deer for you Know, well over half a century at least. You know, the reality is.

[Robbie (Podcast Host)]

And were these national parks established the same time as the Alpine national park was very similar.

[Sean Kilkenny]

So there's quite a bit of a, a spree on creating national parks in like the late 70s, into the early to mid-80s. That was kind of when there was a bit of a national park sort of revolution where these were declared. And that's where we were fortunate enough to get the access at the time or the continued access to the Alpine. And at the same time we still wanted to maintain access or create access to these new areas. But as you said before, it's not always a case of just asking and you will receive. And we, we did want access originally in the 80s, but we weren't able to get it. So was there a reason why you.

[Robbie (Podcast Host)]

Didn'T get the access or was it just purely politics?

[Sean Kilkenny]

Look, I, I think it's partly politics, like obviously I wasn't there, so I can't, I'm not gonna pretend that I'm the authority voice on it. I know that people did push for it, but sometimes if it's not a yes, you just can't turn it into a yes. Sure. And at that time the case was probably stronger to get the alpine access. So you sort of had to take what you could get, you know, end.

[Robbie (Podcast Host)]

Of the day, size wise, between Alpine, Snowy river and Iranundra.

[Sean Kilkenny]

Yeah. So look, between the Snowy river and Iranundra, we're talking about another 130,000 hectares to attach on. So quite significant, but obviously not quite the size of the Alpine, but obviously a huge increase. 130,000 more hectares.

[Robbie (Podcast Host)]

Huge.

[Sean Kilkenny]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Robbie (Podcast Host)]

And so it's like 250,000 acres.

[Sean Kilkenny]

Yeah, it's, it's 320. I did the maths, sorry, Google did the maths for me, I won't lie. So, you know, I'm not going to pretend I'm a farmer that can just sort of go back and forth between hectares and acres. So yeah, it's huge. So back in the early 1980s, life member of the Australian Deer Association, Ken Slee was in the Snowy river exploring, looking for deer sign and just getting an understanding of the land. And he was carrying a, I suppose you call it now, an antique camera, those old microfilm processing style ones. And as he crossed the river behind him, he heard a great splashing, turned around and was fortunate enough to get his camera up in time and took a photo of a majestic mature samba stag that was crossing the river. And that was back in the, you know, the early 1980s and that actually featured on a cover of one of our magazines back then. And so we can trace the genesis of people having the desire to hunt in the Snowy river area back to the 1980s because everyone knew what that it was populated with wild deer, it was accessible, but it just wasn't legal. So the desire to change that law or the regulation was back then.

[Robbie (Podcast Host)]

Sean, the what would, what have, what would be the fine if somebody did hunt in the Snowy River National Park?

[Sean Kilkenny]

Oh, that's a good question. I couldn't say what the penalty units themselves are. Generally what happens if you hunt somewhere. It's calculated by penalty units. So it would probably be in the thousands of dollars. But beyond that, you'd probably also lose your firearms license. Depending on also what you're doing, you can also lose, probably have your car or vehicle confiscated. So for doing something so silly, you could lose a lot. And in Australia, where, you know, you're.

[Robbie (Podcast Host)]

You know, we're licenses, everything, firearms license is everything in Australia, you don't want to do anything to mess that up.

[Sean Kilkenny]

You don't risk losing it. And so doing something like that would, you know, I mean, people sometimes play silly games and win silly prizes. We don't encourage it. But the reality is, you know, for something so stupid, it's just not worth the risk.

[Robbie (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Sean Kilkenny]

And that's why it places that greater value on the advocacy work to, to unlock these places, even if it can take 45 years in the meantime before.

[Robbie (Podcast Host)]

We get these two runs on the board. Is the Victorian government controlling deer numbers in Snowy river in an underra.

[Sean Kilkenny]

Yes. So they, they do the majority or probably the headline stuff would occur in the Snowy River national park where there's probably some more open, higher up areas. And at the moment there are aerial culls that do occur within the Snowy River National Park. And there is also some control programs that do occur also in the Ira Nundra.

[Robbie (Podcast Host)]

When you, when you say control programs, you mean beyond helicopter culling?

[Sean Kilkenny]

Yeah. So sometimes they can have a blend of. If they're not necessarily helicopter calling, they can have on ground colors. Oh, shooting deer. Yeah.

[Robbie (Podcast Host)]

Okay. 1080 drops in snowy river in Andhra. Not, not something that they do any longer.

[Sean Kilkenny]

No, no. So the reality is 1080 is not legal to be used in Australia on wild deer. It's not an approved poison or bait. And that's something that we wish to keep that way. You know, the reality is the rest of the world has banned the use of 1080. Even we call it the RS, except New Zealand. Yes. Yeah. So it's Australia and New Zealand that.

[Robbie (Podcast Host)]

It's so crazy.

[Sean Kilkenny]

Yeah. It's insane. It's so unfortunately, Australia and New Zealand, the only two that I'm aware of that use it for different applications. And it's quite sad because the reality is that it is inhumane, and everybody agrees that it's inhumane, yet people weasel their way through and find an excuse to use it. Look, weasel is probably a bit of a strong word. And look, I understand that horses for courses, but quite often carnage or the impact that are left by some of these baiting programs is. Yeah, it can be quite indiscriminate and confronting.

[Robbie (Podcast Host)]

Sure.

[Sean Kilkenny]

Yeah.

[Robbie (Podcast Host)]

So. So, Sean, when did this idea of like, hey, let's try and get Hunter Access opened in Snowy river in an under start?

[Sean Kilkenny]

Yeah. So look, the reality was we've probably pushed for it, ADA's probably pushed relatively hard for it over the last five years where we started to float the idea a bit more. And then when I came into the role, it would have been three years ago now, not long into that role, we had the crisis, the existential crisis that was facing duck hunting. So while we had to obviously lead into that and try and help, it then also gave us an opportunity to prosecute broader policy positions that we would like to achieve. And so while we're doing the work on that, we're actually able to get some legwork done on this concept of opening up the two national parks.

[Robbie (Podcast Host)]

And when you mean legwork, you mean talking to politicians and making them understand the opportunity.

[Sean Kilkenny]

Yes, exactly that. So, you know, one of the challenges is, you know, you got to be able to get in front of politicians, you got to be a credible voice, establish yourself as, you know, an entity that is trusted and respected in a game where, you know, trust is very hard to earn and very easy to lose, you know, and you work fiercely to ensure that you are trustworthy and a solid contributor to the, to the conversation. And we're quite fortunate where we had engagements with, with government early days on regarding this and frankly, they, they were quite open to the idea. They came into it with like, as I. I could still remember some of the meetings I had where I talked through the points and they were quite well received and it was nearly quite surreal because quite often you might or expect to get a fair bit of resistance or degrees of interrogation because someone might not like something, so they're looking to shoot it down. But it's kind of like, you know, when you do, sometimes you might do a test and you do well on the test or you think you've done well, but then mentally you sort of question yourself whether, oh, did that actually go that well? Like, you sort of can't reconcile it. That was a bit like this when we first floated it, and it went quite well. And since then, we just kept engaging, prosecuting the case, talking to every single person that we needed to talk to about the merit of this, you know, and look, part of it besides, we also think it's a great idea. There's also timing. The. The reality was, same with the ducks, where, you know, we had a new premier, we had a new environment minister, who was also the minister for outdoor recreation. So Premier Allen and Minister Tomopolis, they came in with a new attitude towards outdoor recreation and our industry as a whole. So the reality is without that change in government also, yeah, the. I suppose the premier within the government and the ministry, this opportunity wouldn't have been presented to us. And it goes to show that, hey, you could be working on something for 45 years, but there are always things beyond your control that you can't have a handle on, but you just need to be there ready to pounce on an opportunity and hope that goes your way. At the time, what did you expect?

[Robbie (Podcast Host)]

You said, you know, it was a fairly easy road, but what did you expect them to say? As a negative in my brain, one of the things that they could say is, you know, there's a lot of people that recreate, you know, publicly in these national parks. We don't want them, you know, walking around with deer hunters potentially slinging bullets at them.

[Sean Kilkenny]

Yeah. And I suppose, look, politicians have to make political decisions and it's all about the fallout or calculated fallout, or the price of doing something. And, you know, we were able to convince them that actually, look, this benefits everybody. So the reality is these two national parks are quite remote. So from. From Melbourne, they're five and a half hours. So they're not exactly brimming with people. But there are visitors during season, like Christmas, New Year's, you know, sort of when everyone's off school and the weather's nice, you'll have people visit these remote areas and they'll spend time there on school holidays. And we're like, well, that's fine. Whilst they're there, we won't hunt. Just like in the Alpine national park, we can have seasonal arrangements. So in the middle of summer, when it's too hot to hunt anyway, we'll go fish. That's okay. So we've sort of accommodate that multi use of these areas. And also one of the big leaning points that we had was 40 years of proof that you can hunt national parks, because we've been doing it in the Alpine national park next door. But it's a working example of hunters being a harmonious, harmonious user group which with others. And so as we started to talk through that, they understood that, okay, well, people might culturally not like firearms, but that doesn't necessarily give weight to their argument of saying no to this. There's the government wanting people to use public land and by using it they're going to value it more. We also had, I suppose you could call it the COVID hangover where, you know, people, governments want people to get back outside. They want to create those opportunities for people to be out and about in nature. So this is one way of helping to deliver that to a cohort of at least 50,000 people. It was also something that didn't realistically cost them any money. So for this to happen, all they all. I'll say that as if it's easy, but all they have to do effectively is just update legislation in Parliament. So they just need to decide, okay, the National Parks Act 1975, we will pass these amendments which then say in the Iranundra and Snorri river, you can then hunt under these conditions, you know, you're licensed and seasonal arrangements, et cetera. So that apparatus was what needed to change and you just needed the government to have the political will and the desire to do that. And we'll able to convince them of the merit of the idea and right place, right time. And that's where we've gone to now.

[Robbie (Podcast Host)]

And that's what happened. Right. The, essentially the, the government has said yes to this and have said, yep, we're going to put into law.

[Sean Kilkenny]

Yeah, exactly. So on early July, it was the 4th of July that the press, press release came out that announced that the government was going to do that. Prior to that, the Premier also made public comments that that's what they were going to do. And now we're working through. Well, not me, because I'm not doing it, but the government's working through their legislative agenda. Obviously they've got other things they need to do, such as running the state and what they need to do before Parliament. But I'm optimistic that in the month of August that this legislation will be put before the House or the Houses and passed. So that would then mean effective February 2026, people are going to have access to this, some 130,000 hectares of brand New public land that they've never had access to whilst it's been a national park.

[Robbie (Podcast Host)]

Okay, so the process is. The minister's indicated, yes, he wants this to happen. So in the August time frame, the legislature is going to come back into session, both houses. Hopefully this will be a. How does it work in Australia? Is this a separate bill? Is this something that's tied in with everything else? Does it have to go through a bunch of discussion or is it just going to be put up for votes? Essentially?

[Sean Kilkenny]

Well, and look, and that, that part of the sausage, how it gets made is we're about to discover. But the reality is it depends on what else they do with the bill. So they've obviously got, with the National Parks act, we want them to just change a couple of lines on it to reflect our desires. If they then have other things that they want to do at that time, they might make changes reflecting that in the bill as well. So that would then get introduced in the lower house. The government have the numbers in the lower house that'll, whatever they put in there is going to pass. It then goes up to the upper house. The reality is, depending on what they've put in it, I know if they just put our stuff in it, I would suggest it's going to be quite agreeable to most people in the upper house in the past have shown great support for outdoor recreation, so that on its own should pass relatively okay. But it's politics. So, you know, until it's done, nothing's done. But we also don't know if the government put anything else within that bill that might be disagreeable to others. So that could then cause delays or.

[Robbie (Podcast Host)]

Further amendments, changes, that kind of stuff.

[Sean Kilkenny]

Yep, yep, yep. So depending on how that all unfolds, it could drag it out another couple of days, etc. But the reality is, I think that it should be relatively smooth sailing. But do we think Georgie is going.

[Robbie (Podcast Host)]

To vote for it?

[Sean Kilkenny]

Yeah, look, not to speak on Georgie's behalf, but I, I, she, she may well not, but I don't know, I don't know.

[Robbie (Podcast Host)]

You just, when that, when that happens, Sean, you're just gonna go into your office the next day and go, I'm retiring. I'm hanging up my hats. I have done something nobody else could have done.

[Sean Kilkenny]

We can't do anymore. No. And look, that's, that's the beauty of, particularly in the upper houses where, you know, you do get a diversity of, you know, views and people from different walks of life. Obviously we've got some very pro Firearm and hunting people in there. But then you also have people that don't necessarily view animals as a source of protein. And so the beauty of democracy is these ideas and thoughts and opinions get thrashed out in a public space and with a bit of luck, we come out on the right side of it.

[Robbie (Podcast Host)]

Yeah, 100%, Sean. You know, obviously, you know, cross fingers. We've done all. You've done all the legwork to get this over the finish line. What's next are there. I know that Borsak is obviously working on some increased hunter opportunities in New South Wales that didn't quite time out exactly the way that he was looking for. There are a couple of amendments thrown in there that sort of delayed things, but he's still very confident that he has the politics in place to get that moving forward. So increasing hunter opportunities in New South Wales with new state forests coming online, which is amazing. You've got Litchfield national park in Northern Territory that's come on board, government board, and said, yep, you guys can hunt this, which is amazing. You know, what's next? Like Queensland. You're going to open public land hunting on state forest in Queensland. Come on, Sean.

[Sean Kilkenny]

Abracadabra. Look, there's plenty of people that would. Would like that to be the case, and I am one of them. Um, the reality is that, you know, like, the success that we've had in Victoria was built upon success that we've had 40 years ago, et cetera. So we're. We're fortunate enough to build upon a foundation that's existed and those before us that were fortunate enough to create that in New South Wales, obviously they've got that. The new conservation hunting bill that's before the House and that's building on the success of the early 2000s, where the first conservation hunting bill was successfully put through. So you sort of always need these kernels or small wins to help build a bigger win down the road in Queensland. Some of these challenges there is that the reality is we're sort of working from a lower starting point.

[Robbie (Podcast Host)]

Yeah, yeah. We really have nothing.

[Sean Kilkenny]

Yeah, it's. And how do you then go from.

[Robbie (Podcast Host)]

You know, one of the governments and governments that, as I understand it, governments that are almost impossible to get anything through. That's pro sustainable use.

[Sean Kilkenny]

Yeah. And this is one of the broader challenges that we have with our suppose, engagement with wildlife in Australia. And also I think there's a deeper dive there where, aspirationally, we want to create a hunting culture that is based around the sustainable use of wild animals and, and how that's formed. And that's also. And this is where I suppose we get into the weeds a little bit. But it's quite different to what we'd call a shooting culture where people are just happy to shoot something. Where a shooter and a hunter, there's nothing wrong with being a shooter, but a shooter is different to a hunter. And, you know, you, you both own firearms, obviously, that's, that's fair enough. But your, what you do with the firearms or your motivations behind it vary. And so because those values will change slightly, what you want to see achieved or flourish may be different. And we want, and this is what we hope we can start to help build out with some and an announcement such as, this is a more embraced and celebrated hunting culture in Australia that ties back into the sustainable use of wild, wildly sourced protein. The reality is that Australia is a country that has, you know, varying degrees of introduced animals and they're not going anywhere, but they've formed a part of a lot of people's lives and a lot of people spend a lot of time and money harvesting these animals, but they're sort of not, not necessarily celebrated, but not necessarily embraced and not necessarily valued within, you know, regulations or policy settings. And that's something that we're sort of looking to, to build upon and one day have that, hey, you know, everyone virtually nearly knows a hunter, but we don't, we don't talk about it. You know, like, always have a joke where, you know, unless you recognize a bit of clothing that someone's wearing, like, oh, it's a Swarovski hat or it's a, you know, a Winchester T shirt or something, then you realize, oh, that person's someone I can talk to because I know who they are. Yeah, otherwise you would never know. And that's generally how it works in Australia. So building a platform so that, yeah, we've got this sustainable use that's ongoing and it's a mature conversation about managing animals, and we're a big part of that is kind of like an aspiration that it's going to take, you know, decades to achieve, but if you don't work on it, it won't happen either.

[Robbie (Podcast Host)]

Yeah, I totally agree with you. I think the, I think the narrative that hunting culture in Australia should champion is exactly what you just said. It's a food. It's a food culture. It's a sustainable use of the resource culture. And, you know, what's beautiful about Australia is you've got just like many parts of the world, you've got a food culture that will span from feeding the hungry to backyard barbecues that Aussies are famous for, to Michelin star chefs outside of Melbourne wanting good venison.

[Sean Kilkenny]

Yeah, exactly. And also demographically, where we're a country that was built on, the modern country that we have was largely built on the back of post World War II migration. So we have this diverse range of cultures from Europe that have all these different viewpoints on food. So it's like if you're a foodie, you're in a very fortunate place cause you've got so many ideas and so many resources to celebrate. And that's a part of our culture too. And that is in alignment with, well, we got this beautiful free range, sustainable protein. Why aren't we making the most of it? Like, what's the mature conversation to this?

[Robbie (Podcast Host)]

Yeah, 100%. 100% totally agree with you. Well, look, man, you know, Short Shop to the point is what we wanted, right? Snowy River National Park. Good. Big run on the board. Iranundra National Park. Big run on the board. Hopefully it gets voted on. Should get voted on. Should pass through the Victoria State government, opening up 130,000 hectares, 320,000 acres to new hunting opportunities. Huge, massive.

[Sean Kilkenny]

Yeah, it is fantastic. And look, I'm still beside myself one. Once it's done, I'll believe it. Like, it's kind of weird in this game. You don't believe anything until it's the proofs in the pudding. But we are, we are really, really, really, really, really, really, really close. It's literally just around the corner. The government's committed to doing it. And look, I also want to say thank you to people that support us and like, such as yourself, Robbie. By having me on the podcast, you help boost the profile of, you know, what we try and undertake in Australia. People that follow us on our socials or engage members, people that buy tickets or raffles, whatever it is. The reality is we can't do that without people's support and we're privileged to be able to do it. But we also want to acknowledge that without that support, we wouldn't be here. And yeah, yeah, this, this win isn't about us, it's about. It's a generational thing, you know, like I've got some young kids and now they're going to be able to grow up and their norm for them will be they'll have access to this public land. Whereas I grew up and the norm was you didn't.

[Robbie (Podcast Host)]

Yeah, that's awesome. Huge.

[Sean Kilkenny]

Yeah, that's the takeaway for me.

[Robbie (Podcast Host)]

And especially again. And it's huge because of the culture in Australia. You know, hunting is on the defensive, like really on the defensive in Australia. And the winds that are coming on the board is like, whoa, this is happening in Australia. Geez, we're not even. We're not losing ground. We're actually gaining ground.

[Sean Kilkenny]

That's right. And that just comes about from like, lots of hard work over many years and you never know when you're going to get your lucky break. But the reality is if you're not there chipping away, you won't get it. So that's the value of supporting people that, you know, have the nose to the stone for you.

[Robbie (Podcast Host)]

Yeah, that's it. Well, good job, Sean. Good job, Ada. And all the people that support you. And we'll be the first people that, you know, sing from the top of our social media soapbox when you let me know that, hey, it passed and we'll cheers a bourbon to you guys down there.

[Sean Kilkenny]

No worries. I'll be sure to let you know. Robbie, thanks once again, mate.

[Robbie (Podcast Host)]

No worries. Well, that's it for today. I appreciate you listening as always. Leave a review, share it with your friends and most importantly, do what's right to convey the truth around hunting.

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