Podcast Summary: The Origins Foundation Podcast

Episode 604 – Jon Flocchini || State Of Bison

Date: November 4, 2025
Host: The Origins Foundation (Robbie)
Guest: Jon Flocchini, generational bison rancher, Durham Ranch, Wyoming

Episode Overview

In this episode, host Robbie is joined by Jon Flocchini, a third-generation bison rancher and steward of the historic Durham Ranch in Wyoming. With National Bison Day just passed, the discussion dives deep into the current state and future of bison in North America, highlighting the interplay between conservation, sustainable use, and the unique role private ownership has played in saving the species. The conversation also explores ranching practices, industry challenges, land management philosophy, and the social context of bison conservation.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Flocchini Family Legacy and History of Durham Ranch

• Durham Ranch Roots: The Durham Ranch, established in 1965, originally came into the Flocchini family through the meat business in California and Nevada. The move from cattle to bison was almost accidental but visionary, as bison meat was nearly unknown at the time.
  • "Bison was not even in their vocabulary... They came across this deal, it sort of fell into their laps and they came up to Wyoming, checked it out, and fell in love with it." (Jon, 13:13-15:00)

The Switch from Cattle to Bison

• Changing Perceptions: In the 1960s and 70s, most Americans thought bison were extinct. Only specialty restaurants occasionally offered bison meat, and the species were largely unprotected or poorly classified by law.
  • "Most people thought they were still... extinct. You know, in the 1960s and even into the 70s, we'd have people say, well, we thought these things went extinct, you know, and here we are looking at a couple thousand of them." (Jon, 16:18)
• Regulatory Gray Area: Bison often fell into legal ambiguity, sometimes treated as livestock, other times as wildlife – subject to different regulations per state.
  • "In Wyoming... if you saw a bison out somewhere just running loose, you could shoot it. It was free game." (Jon, 17:09)

Private vs. Public Bison – The North American Model

• Current Numbers: There are roughly 450,000 bison in private hands and only 20,000–30,000 in public herds.
  • "You're 4,000% more in private hands than public lands." (Robbie, 19:51)
• Why Private Ownership Works: The economic value of bison, both as a meat source and for hunting, has driven their comeback and population growth.
  • "The value is in the consumption of them. The more people eat them, the better their value is and the more they will be grown." (Jon, 20:12)
• Sustainable Use Model: The bison industry mirrors South African wildlife conservation, where privatization and consumption create incentives for species survival.
  • "It boils down to sustainable use... If you eat them, if people want to eat them, the value goes up and there'll be more people raising them." (Robbie & Jon, 20:28–20:34)
• Potential Pitfalls: If consumption or public interest wanes (due to societal shifts or anti-use sentiment), the private model is vulnerable; public herds would likely not compensate.
  • "If they fall out of favor... are they going to step up and buy 200,000 bison? No, they won't." (Robbie, 21:37)

Ecological & Land Management Impacts

• Bison as Keystone Grazers: Bison, like other large grazers, are essential for healthy grasslands, especially in arid areas. Properly managed, they benefit carbon capture, soil health, and ecosystem diversity.
  • "Science is proving this out—the impact of... the large ungulate on the land... Without that impact, the land actually goes backwards and is less healthy." (Jon, 24:16)
• Human Role as Managers: Because of habitat fragmentation and human influence, our stewardship and active management are more critical than ever.
  • "Mother Nature's a cruel bitch... she's a boom bust cycle bitch." (Robbie, 26:55)
  • "We apply holistic management... It's not hard. It's not rocket science, man. It's pretty basic." (Jon, 32:15, 36:16)

Holistic Management & Grazing Systems

• Following Alan Savory's principles (holistic management), the ranch rotates bison across land to mimic natural cycles, optimizing grass growth and soil health.
  • "What we're shooting for is kind of what the settlers saw when they first came west, which was the stirrup high grass or, you know, belly deep on a horse." (Jon, 34:41)

Bison Industry: Current Challenges and the Future

Population Fluctuations

• Impact of Drought & Disease: Recent years saw herds culled by up to 40% due to drought; disease (notably Mycoplasma bovis) can devastate herds, compounding challenges.
  • "If it's introduced, it can take up to 40 to 50% of a herd out. It's insidious." (Jon, 28:15)

Rebuilding Herds

• Repopulation Hurdles: Growing herds is slow—bison have a long reproductive cycle. Removing productive females for market impacts future expansion.
  • "It takes at least three years to get her into production, but it takes another year or more for that calf to do something for you." (Jon, 09:54)
• Land Availability: Expanding bison numbers requires more land or transitioning cattle land to bison, which is culturally and financially challenging for multigenerational ranchers.
  • "That is a limiting factor definitely is availability of land... If females are being used... then you have to pull them out of the meat equation in order to grow the herd." (Jon, 38:05, 39:55)
• Market Balancing Act: With a shortage of bison, meat prices are rising, but there’s a delicate balance before consumer pushback hits.
  • "There's going to be a point where you know it's going to stop. Because at some point... my customers aren't buying it anymore off the menu. I had to raise the prices so high..." (Jon, 41:48)

Industry Future & Conservation Opportunities

• Room for Growth: A shortage of bison represents an opportunity but also highlights the slow, complex nature of herd expansion and the need for more land and younger producers.
  • "There's a need, there's an opportunity... to grow and increase the population of bison for sure." (Jon, 37:33)
• Direct-to-Consumer Sales: Durham Ranch does not currently sell bison meat online but serves wholesale and on-site retail.
  • "We don't do any Internet based sales. It's mainly wholesale to the food service as well as some retail." (Jon, 42:07)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Private Conservation and Value:
  • “The more people eat them, the better their value is and the more they will be grown.” (Jon, 20:12)
• On Human Impact:
  • “Mother Nature's a cruel bitch... she's a boom bust cycle bitch.” (Robbie, 26:55)
• On Land Management:
  • “We apply holistic management... It's not rocket science, man. It's pretty basic.” (Jon, 32:15, 36:16)
• On Disease Threats:
  • “If it's introduced, it can take up to 40 to 50% of a herd out. It's insidious.” (Jon, 28:15)
• On the Symbolism of Bison:
  • “Free ranging bison, the symbol of the American west... Part of it's that romance.” (Jon, 24:05)
• On the Future:
  • “There's a need, there's an opportunity for people to grow and increase the population of bison for sure.” (Jon, 37:33)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Durham Ranch History & Bison Industry Origins: 13:06 – 16:54
• Private vs. Public Bison Conservation Models: 18:29 – 21:37
• Ecological Value of Bison & Land Management: 24:05 – 27:17
• Holistic Management & Savory Connection: 32:14 – 36:16
• Current Industry Issues: Drought, Disease, Market: 04:38 – 05:48, 27:55 – 31:50, 36:26 – 41:48
• Future Directions for Bison Industry: 36:26 – 41:48
• Hunting at Durham Ranch: 42:50 – 43:52

Additional Information

• Animals on Durham Ranch:
  • Bison (~2,500), pronghorn, some deer, elk (no commercial elk hunts).
• Hunting and Visits:
  • Hunts available for bison and pronghorn, info at DurhamBisonRanch.com
• Conservation Approaches Referenced:
  • North American Wildlife Model, sustainable use, South African privatization model, holistic management per Alan Savory.

Conclusion

This episode offers a comprehensive look at the present and future of North America’s bison — tracing the species' near extinction and dramatic recovery through private stewardship, innovative land management, and evolving societal values. Through Jon Flocchini’s experience, listeners gain deep insight into the practical, economic, and ecological complexities of bison ranching. The conversation balances reverence for the species, a pragmatic approach to sustainable use, and an optimistic, if complex, vision for bison’s continued place on America’s landscape.