The Origins Foundation Podcast

Episode 618 - Calem And Ky || Australian Survival Dynamic Duo
Date: January 21, 2026
Guests: Kai Furnow and Callum McGrady
Host: The Origins Foundation (with possible input from Wild Origins Australia)

Main Theme & Purpose

This episode features an in-depth conversation with survivalists Kai Furnow—renowned for multiple appearances on Naked and Afraid—and Callum McGrady, a trained chef turned bushcraft instructor. Gathered at the Wild Deer Expo in Victoria, Australia, the discussion explores changing hunting narratives, uniting Australia’s hunting community, leveraging food to bridge perception gaps, and the ethical, practical, and philosophical dimensions of hunting and conservation Down Under.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Introducing the Duo & Wild Origins Australia

• Backgrounds:
  • Kai: Survivalist, stuntwoman, TV personality (Naked and Afraid, etc.), passionate about responsible hunting and wild food.
  • Callum: Former high-end chef, now a bushcraft/survival instructor, known for intellectual, ethical, and philosophical takes on hunting.
• Wild Origins Australia: Aims to present a new narrative around hunting and sustainable use, acting as a “foreign mediator” to unite typically divided Aussie factions.

“Callum’s a very deep, philosophical, theological thinker, somebody who we desperately need in the hunting world. We need somebody to be able to challenge rhetoric, challenge status quo, and do it in a way that’s calm but also very intelligent.”
— Host (00:37)

2. Hunting Community Dynamics in Australia

• Divisiveness: Notable rifts between bowhunters/firearms owners and rivalry among organizations.
• Advantages of Outsider Perspective: Wild Origins Australia, as ‘foreign’ observers, can bypass local ego and encourage collaborative approaches.
• Analogy: “Snakes and ladders”—one step forward, one back, reflective of slow progress in community cohesion.

“It’s like snakes and ladders. You guys are climbing the ladder, and then somebody does something stupid and you just slide back.”
— Callum McGrady (01:38)

“It’s almost like you need a third party like us to say, ‘Oh, you're doing a good job.’”
— Host (09:28)

3. Global Connections & Narrative Change

• Shared Experience: Both Kai and Callum highlight hunting’s global community and the benefits of learning from international models, such as AFWA in the US.
• Media & Storytelling: Digital platforms crucial for reframing hunting as a culturally and ecologically responsible practice.

4. Food as Bridge to Understanding and Acceptance

• Event Concept: Exclusive wild game dinners for MPs, influencers, journalists, etc., where every course sparks conversation about sustainability and hunting realities (15:47–17:06).
• Callum’s Ambition: Pairing wild foods (including bush tucker and kangaroo) in experiences run by Indigenous Australians.

“I think food is the vehicle here in Australia… it goes from backyard Barbie to Michelin star. Every course has a story.”
— Host (14:52)

“With my work with Aboriginal communities… doing an experience where we could eat traditional bush tucker, if we could work it out… hosted by them to introduce some things that aren't on the menu that I think should be more.”
— Callum McGrady (17:32)

5. Kangaroo as Food & Ongoing Taboo

• Overpopulation Issue: Property owners overwhelmed by kangaroos, yet commercial use and market acceptance lag due to stigma and regulation.
• Policy Frustration: Export bans (e.g., US & California laws), lack of commercial viability, complex bureaucracy for wild game meat prevent effective management.

“It costs him too much to work that eradication program. But they’re everywhere… an incredible source of food and nutrients.”
— Kai Furnow (19:53)

“Taking that away, taking the value—ALL value—away…”
— Callum McGrady on kangaroo leather bans (20:02)

6. Australian Regulations & Hurdles

• Complex Licenses & Logistics: Harvest and sale of wild game meat (e.g., kangaroo, venison) stifled by expensive and difficult compliance requirements.
• Missed Opportunities: Laws prevent philanthropic food sharing (e.g., Hunters for the Hungry), even between neighbors.

“Technically speaking, you’re not allowed to share deer meat with anyone outside your immediate family.”
— Callum McGrady (23:52)

7. Changing Perceptions through Story and Philosophy

• Confronting the Stigma: Hunters are unjustly maligned; the popular trope of “smiling with a kill” misses the deeper motives and skills.
• Innate Drive: Both guests describe the connection and “rightness” of hunting their own food after years of eating store-bought meat or, in Kai’s case, being vegetarian.

“When I bow hunted my first animal… everything just clicked into place. Was one of the most feeling of the most RIGHT moments in my life.”
— Kai Furnow (31:07)

“The problem is perception over perspective… All they see is a dead animal and somebody who’s joyous.”
— Callum McGrady (33:01)

8. Philosophical and Ethical Discussions

• Animal Welfare as a Core Value: Emphasizes the expectation of humane dispatch and respect for the animal.
• Direct Experience Over Abstraction: Both guests cite that hands-on hunting brings greater respect for the food, animals, and environment vs. industrial, abstracted meat consumption.
• Engagement with Opposing Views: Callum enjoys debate and would welcome reasoned, respectful conversations with animal rights advocates.

“I'd love to talk to Georgie Purcell if she would be up for a Trump chat, be amazing… a nice long form debate over the subject is what the people deserve.”
— Callum McGrady (43:33)

“Technically speaking, to be a true vegan, you have to be a carnivore hunter.”
— Callum McGrady (52:22)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On community unity:
  “We’ve all got these Lego blocks… but if we can put all those blocks together… then you’ve got a big house.”
  — Kai Furnow (09:47)

• On regulatory absurdity:
  “Even a Hunters for the Hungry program—100%. Like sometimes… we couldn’t even give some of their meat away. Our freezer got full and we were offering it to the neighbors and everyone’s like, oh, no…”
  — Host (24:36), Kai (24:39)

• On vegan vs. carnivore ethics:
  “If you are a carnivore that just eats meat and you get one sambar, that sambar can feed one person for a year. So that's one death from a hunter, as opposed to the hundreds of thousands of deaths from all the animals along the way of creating vegetables.”
  — Callum McGrady (51:34)

• On innate human nature and hunting:
  “If you leave kids on their own, they want to build shelters… shoot bows, build fires.”
  — Callum McGrady (31:07)

• On food cost and access:
  “The cost of living is atrocious… families are choosing between meat and a recreation activity. It shouldn’t be that way.”
  — Callum McGrady (26:55)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:00–05:30] — Introduction to Kai and Callum; background, aims of Wild Origins Australia
• [09:24–11:20] — Barriers to unity and Classic Australian modesty
• [14:44–17:21] — Food as outreach: wild dinners, cultural experiences
• [18:00–22:15] — Kangaroo: overabundance, food potential, and commercialization stumbling blocks
• [23:52–25:03] — Regulatory limits on wild meat sharing, Hunters for the Hungry
• [26:55–27:25] — Meat access, economic and social context
• [28:25–29:33] — Callum’s personal journey into hunting and self-sufficiency
• [31:07–33:14] — The primal, fulfilling aspect of self-sourced food
• [35:35–36:35] — Hunters’ superior connection with and understanding of wildlife
• [43:18–43:55] — Callum’s debating ethos; value of philosophical discussion in conservation
• [47:00–48:14] — Trophy hunting ethics; natural end of life for wild animals, “the old curmudgeonly male”
• [51:34–52:22] — Vegan paradox: fewer deaths, greater sustainability via hunting

Tone & Atmosphere

The conversation is candid, jovial, often playful, and anchored in a spirit of intellectual curiosity and mutual respect. Kai and Callum both balance humor with earnest insight, often poking fun at stereotypes but equally comfortable diving into philosophical topics. There’s a pervasive sense of optimism for a more unified, better-understood, and ethical hunting culture in Australia and beyond.

Closing Thoughts

This episode offers both a window into the lived realities of modern Australian hunters and the complexity of public opinion and policy around hunting and conservation. By foregrounding practical action, global examples, and deeply personal stories, the guests advocate for a more rational, humble, united, and compassionate approach to managing and celebrating Australia’s wild resources.

“Together we can make lasting change in a positive direction… It needs everybody to step up to that plate.”
— Kai Furnow (52:44)