Episode 618 - Calem And Ky || Australian Survival Dynamic Duo

Summary

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The Origins Foundation Podcast

Episode 618 - Calem And Ky || Australian Survival Dynamic Duo
Date: January 21, 2026
Guests: Kai Furnow and Callum McGrady
Host: The Origins Foundation (with possible input from Wild Origins Australia)

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Main Theme & Purpose

This episode features an in-depth conversation with survivalists Kai Furnow—renowned for multiple appearances on Naked and Afraid—and Callum McGrady, a trained chef turned bushcraft instructor. Gathered at the Wild Deer Expo in Victoria, Australia, the discussion explores changing hunting narratives, uniting Australia’s hunting community, leveraging food to bridge perception gaps, and the ethical, practical, and philosophical dimensions of hunting and conservation Down Under.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Introducing the Duo & Wild Origins Australia

• Backgrounds:
  • Kai: Survivalist, stuntwoman, TV personality (Naked and Afraid, etc.), passionate about responsible hunting and wild food.
  • Callum: Former high-end chef, now a bushcraft/survival instructor, known for intellectual, ethical, and philosophical takes on hunting.
• Wild Origins Australia: Aims to present a new narrative around hunting and sustainable use, acting as a “foreign mediator” to unite typically divided Aussie factions.

“Callum’s a very deep, philosophical, theological thinker, somebody who we desperately need in the hunting world. We need somebody to be able to challenge rhetoric, challenge status quo, and do it in a way that’s calm but also very intelligent.”
— Host (00:37)

2. Hunting Community Dynamics in Australia

• Divisiveness: Notable rifts between bowhunters/firearms owners and rivalry among organizations.
• Advantages of Outsider Perspective: Wild Origins Australia, as ‘foreign’ observers, can bypass local ego and encourage collaborative approaches.
• Analogy: “Snakes and ladders”—one step forward, one back, reflective of slow progress in community cohesion.

“It’s like snakes and ladders. You guys are climbing the ladder, and then somebody does something stupid and you just slide back.”
— Callum McGrady (01:38)

“It’s almost like you need a third party like us to say, ‘Oh, you're doing a good job.’”
— Host (09:28)

3. Global Connections & Narrative Change

• Shared Experience: Both Kai and Callum highlight hunting’s global community and the benefits of learning from international models, such as AFWA in the US.
• Media & Storytelling: Digital platforms crucial for reframing hunting as a culturally and ecologically responsible practice.

4. Food as Bridge to Understanding and Acceptance

• Event Concept: Exclusive wild game dinners for MPs, influencers, journalists, etc., where every course sparks conversation about sustainability and hunting realities (15:47–17:06).
• Callum’s Ambition: Pairing wild foods (including bush tucker and kangaroo) in experiences run by Indigenous Australians.

“I think food is the vehicle here in Australia… it goes from backyard Barbie to Michelin star. Every course has a story.”
— Host (14:52)

“With my work with Aboriginal communities… doing an experience where we could eat traditional bush tucker, if we could work it out… hosted by them to introduce some things that aren't on the menu that I think should be more.”
— Callum McGrady (17:32)

5. Kangaroo as Food & Ongoing Taboo

• Overpopulation Issue: Property owners overwhelmed by kangaroos, yet commercial use and market acceptance lag due to stigma and regulation.
• Policy Frustration: Export bans (e.g., US & California laws), lack of commercial viability, complex bureaucracy for wild game meat prevent effective management.

“It costs him too much to work that eradication program. But they’re everywhere… an incredible source of food and nutrients.”
— Kai Furnow (19:53)

“Taking that away, taking the value—ALL value—away…”
— Callum McGrady on kangaroo leather bans (20:02)

6. Australian Regulations & Hurdles

• Complex Licenses & Logistics: Harvest and sale of wild game meat (e.g., kangaroo, venison) stifled by expensive and difficult compliance requirements.
• Missed Opportunities: Laws prevent philanthropic food sharing (e.g., Hunters for the Hungry), even between neighbors.

“Technically speaking, you’re not allowed to share deer meat with anyone outside your immediate family.”
— Callum McGrady (23:52)

7. Changing Perceptions through Story and Philosophy

• Confronting the Stigma: Hunters are unjustly maligned; the popular trope of “smiling with a kill” misses the deeper motives and skills.
• Innate Drive: Both guests describe the connection and “rightness” of hunting their own food after years of eating store-bought meat or, in Kai’s case, being vegetarian.

“When I bow hunted my first animal… everything just clicked into place. Was one of the most feeling of the most RIGHT moments in my life.”
— Kai Furnow (31:07)

“The problem is perception over perspective… All they see is a dead animal and somebody who’s joyous.”
— Callum McGrady (33:01)

8. Philosophical and Ethical Discussions

• Animal Welfare as a Core Value: Emphasizes the expectation of humane dispatch and respect for the animal.
• Direct Experience Over Abstraction: Both guests cite that hands-on hunting brings greater respect for the food, animals, and environment vs. industrial, abstracted meat consumption.
• Engagement with Opposing Views: Callum enjoys debate and would welcome reasoned, respectful conversations with animal rights advocates.

“I'd love to talk to Georgie Purcell if she would be up for a Trump chat, be amazing… a nice long form debate over the subject is what the people deserve.”
— Callum McGrady (43:33)

“Technically speaking, to be a true vegan, you have to be a carnivore hunter.”
— Callum McGrady (52:22)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On community unity:
  “We’ve all got these Lego blocks… but if we can put all those blocks together… then you’ve got a big house.”
  — Kai Furnow (09:47)

• On regulatory absurdity:
  “Even a Hunters for the Hungry program—100%. Like sometimes… we couldn’t even give some of their meat away. Our freezer got full and we were offering it to the neighbors and everyone’s like, oh, no…”
  — Host (24:36), Kai (24:39)

• On vegan vs. carnivore ethics:
  “If you are a carnivore that just eats meat and you get one sambar, that sambar can feed one person for a year. So that's one death from a hunter, as opposed to the hundreds of thousands of deaths from all the animals along the way of creating vegetables.”
  — Callum McGrady (51:34)

• On innate human nature and hunting:
  “If you leave kids on their own, they want to build shelters… shoot bows, build fires.”
  — Callum McGrady (31:07)

• On food cost and access:
  “The cost of living is atrocious… families are choosing between meat and a recreation activity. It shouldn’t be that way.”
  — Callum McGrady (26:55)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:00–05:30] — Introduction to Kai and Callum; background, aims of Wild Origins Australia
• [09:24–11:20] — Barriers to unity and Classic Australian modesty
• [14:44–17:21] — Food as outreach: wild dinners, cultural experiences
• [18:00–22:15] — Kangaroo: overabundance, food potential, and commercialization stumbling blocks
• [23:52–25:03] — Regulatory limits on wild meat sharing, Hunters for the Hungry
• [26:55–27:25] — Meat access, economic and social context
• [28:25–29:33] — Callum’s personal journey into hunting and self-sufficiency
• [31:07–33:14] — The primal, fulfilling aspect of self-sourced food
• [35:35–36:35] — Hunters’ superior connection with and understanding of wildlife
• [43:18–43:55] — Callum’s debating ethos; value of philosophical discussion in conservation
• [47:00–48:14] — Trophy hunting ethics; natural end of life for wild animals, “the old curmudgeonly male”
• [51:34–52:22] — Vegan paradox: fewer deaths, greater sustainability via hunting

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Tone & Atmosphere

The conversation is candid, jovial, often playful, and anchored in a spirit of intellectual curiosity and mutual respect. Kai and Callum both balance humor with earnest insight, often poking fun at stereotypes but equally comfortable diving into philosophical topics. There’s a pervasive sense of optimism for a more unified, better-understood, and ethical hunting culture in Australia and beyond.

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Closing Thoughts

This episode offers both a window into the lived realities of modern Australian hunters and the complexity of public opinion and policy around hunting and conservation. By foregrounding practical action, global examples, and deeply personal stories, the guests advocate for a more rational, humble, united, and compassionate approach to managing and celebrating Australia’s wild resources.

“Together we can make lasting change in a positive direction… It needs everybody to step up to that plate.”
— Kai Furnow (52:44)

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Transcript

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Kai Funo and Callum o' Grady are a dynamic duo. They're both like survivalists. Callum's like almost a Michelin star chef. He might be a Michelin star chef.

[Callum McGrady]

Callum.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Sorry if I mess that up. They are partners in crime. They are partners in life. They both enjoy the outback, they both enjoy traditional hunting, and they both are on the team of Wild Origins Australia. Kai is well known for her Naked and Afraid episodes. She's been on Naked and Frayed, I think six, seven times. She may be on Naked and Afraid right now, who knows? But I sit down with both of them at the Wild Deer Expo in Victoria, Australia, and we just talk about stuff. You'll get a sense of who Kai is. You'll also get a sense of who Callum is. Callum is a very deep, philosophical, theological thinker, somebody who we desperately need in the hunting world. We need somebody to be able to challenge rhetoric, challenge status quo, and do it in a way that's calm but also very intelligent. So I hope you enjoy this podcast. It gives you an introduction to some of our team members of Wild Origins Australia and gives you a different perspective on hunting from people halfway around the world. So enjoy. So five years ago, there was a reason why I started this movement, and the truth then is the truth now that we need to champion our narrative. We need to champion the truth around what we do and who we are. There's a sweet spot with a gun, you know, too heavy and it's a burden to walk with. Too light and you whipping it. Why is the project so important to the hunting community? It's. It's a. I think it's not only important, I think it's. I think it's vital. I think it's. It's just in time.

[Callum McGrady]

It's like snakes and ladders. You guys are climbing the ladder, and then somebody does something stupid and you just slide that.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

That is such an amazing analogy. Snakes and ladders.

[Callum McGrady]

Yeah. You know, ivory in.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

In my opinion, was the plastic of its age. Okay.

[Kai Furnow]

The expensive little going up. It goes a long way with families.

[Callum McGrady]

We are families that do need it.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Let me close this door because I have a little wiener dog. What? You are. You're laughing because I said wiener.

[Kai Furnow]

I'm really glad you finished the sentence out. I'm sorry. The first happened. What are we doing here today?

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

You're telling the whole. Oh.

[Kai Furnow]

Don't ask me any hard questions. I really, you know, how pod before.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Did I have you on the podcast?

[Kai Furnow]

I don't think so. Oh, did we? No.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

You're so famous. I would think that you would have been on the podcast already. Kayla was like, I don't think famous.

[Callum McGrady]

I can't remember. No, she certainly is.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Let's get your microphone a little bit turned in closer. How's that? No, that's. That's okay. I'll just adjust your. Your body. Okay. It's fine. There we go. Is this the first time you've been at the Deer expo?

[Callum McGrady]

I think so, yes.

[Kai Furnow]

Maybe there's a few expos that come around. I don't know if I done the deer one before. No, this will be the first one. Cuz they've got the hunting expo and that I went.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

I had a stall in which hunting expo?

[Kai Furnow]

It was just called the Hunting Expo. But the year before COVID was the last year they did it. It was in like the showgrounds at Melbourne.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Yeah, but was that then the. Was it called the Duck Deer Expo?

[Kai Furnow]

No, it was called the Hunting Expo.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Hunting Expo, yeah. Interesting.

[Kai Furnow]

And I had a. And I did a talk there as well. So I had a stall and did a talk which was good. We should have a stall here. But I'm not meant to be here today. How? Smoking on a plane.

[Callum McGrady]

Like it was me until.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Yeah, yesterday it was just Callum. Callum and was going to podcast with me and we was going to shoot the breeze and now we've got a famous person with us.

[Kai Furnow]

Yeah, you. Come on now.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

It's. Look, man, it is humbling. It is absolutely humbling to stand here and these Field and Game Australia guys are talking. They're like, man, this is your community. Yeah, this is our community.

[Kai Furnow]

It is.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

And we needed to get them behind us and understand who we are. And we've used a digital media platform that is this thing that is the phone in front of us. And we've done it pretty effectively.

[Kai Furnow]

Yeah, like, I mean, I. So I'm good mates with like Soren from Sorenex and. And all of those guys and they all know you and all that community. Like it's a. It's a global, global thing, you know, and it's great that Australia is embracing it more, you know.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Well, I think when people embrace it, you realize that there's something there. There's something that's been missing for forever.

[Kai Furnow]

And I'm not sure if it's because you're not from here. Here it makes it more palatable for everyone to be able to like it. Like, are we recording?

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Of course we are.

[Callum McGrady]

Oh, we're in.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

What are you doing, girl? Just keep going. What now? Now you're all like timid and whatnot, knowing that the red light is on.

[Kai Furnow]

But it was just the fact that, you know, there's been a lot of divisiveness within the hunting communities and I can't figure it out why. Like I know that bow hunters aren't a huge fan of maybe guns and then guns and this and that, but everyone sort of has their own way of thinking that they need to move through the world and it's been hard to find a common ground. And you know, I've worked with a few organizations and I'm not sure why they fail. And I think that it could be something to do with the fact they bring in these preconceived notions or something. But, but wild origins coming from a, a different space in the world has enabled people to unite behind it.

[Callum McGrady]

I think a foreign mediator.

[Kai Furnow]

Yeah, I like that too.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

I like that. I like that. I also think that we don't have.

[Kai Furnow]

An ego to us absolutely.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Like yes, I'm the face and yes I'm the voice, but it's not about me. Like I often like even on this trip, even my mom will, I'll say, look guys, I'm a hunter, right? And when I go hunting I like to figure out how to get my trophies back home as expeditiously as possible. Well, you don't have to look much further than Safari Specialty Importers. We know that trophy importation can be quite a headache. That's why Safari Specialty Importer strives to make it as easy and hassle free as possible. They have access to a bonded warehouse. You won't be charged storage fees and you get a dedicated team that's readily available and will update you at every step in the process. They'll even go one step further. Safari Specialty importers is working with us and they are going to donate $100 from every shipment that they work with to conservation projects that include anti poaching, community development and wildlife conservation. At the end of the day, choose to spend your money with a team that's dedicated to you and is dedicated to helping show how hunting is a great conservation model. Hassle free logistics, fuel and conservation go with Safari specialty importers. It is 2026 and my friends, big changes have happened in the world of firearm suppressors. The $200 tax stamp fee is now gone. Huge win for hunters, huge win for shooters and a huge win for your wallets. If you're thinking about elevating your shooting experience and adding a suppressor, Silence essential is the best way to shop and you don't even have to get off your couch to do it. Go to silenceessential.com, browse hundreds of suppressor options. They literally have all of the popular makes and models. Then their experts will walk you through setting up your account, creating a free NFA trust, and then submitting your application to the atf. Once approved, Silencer Central ships your new suppressor directly to your door. That's when you're going to have to essentially get off the couch. It's a game changer, guys. You haven't done it yet. Do it. The old days of waiting eight to 10 months on a suppressor are gone. It's more like two weeks. Some have even gotten their suppressors in shorter timeframes. It's never been easier to start shooting suppressed. Get started today by visiting silencer central.com it's really the simplest way to get your suppressors. Bushnell is eager to help you get set up for conservation success. That's right. They want to help you. The conservation and research community is dominated by good people doing good things and investing significant time and effort for the benefit of habitat and the species. So what do you need to do? Pretty simple. Send us your conservation story and or your conservation wish. Could be managing whitetails, could be understanding your environment or species or something else related to conservation. What would you be able to do if you had a great trail camera setup? We will select the best story every other month and send you a camera bundle. Cell camera, normal SD camera, SD cards, as well as optics. Everything you need to get set up for success. I can't wait to see what you submit. You can email us, DM us, message us, whatever you want. We are not hard to find. Good luck. Yeah, we landed here and we did this. And she was like, this week I said, yeah, it's me, but it's not me. It's we. It's like that's the community that we've built is this we. And we want to champion everybody. Field and game. Doing great work. Let's celebrate. Field and Game. Ada's doing great work. We'll celebrate you. Victorian Houndsman association, doing great work. Gippsland Deer Stalkers association, doing great work. We'll celebrate you, too.

[Kai Furnow]

And everybody's doing great work. And if we pulled like they're all.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

But nobody's saying, then they're doing good work. It's almost like you need a third party like us to say, oh, you're doing a good job.

[Kai Furnow]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Hey, you're doing a good job.

[Callum McGrady]

That's Classic Australian modesty, though, isn't it? It's all about being the classic, the. The humble Aussie bloke and not sticking your head out too much.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

You've got to let somebody else do it.

[Callum McGrady]

That's it.

[Kai Furnow]

Yeah, but it's also like we've all got these Lego blocks and everyone's got like two blocks each and they're all just keeping their blocks. But if we can put all those blocks together, then you've got like a big house or something, you know what I mean? And we need to. We need to be able to pull everybody in and, and put those blocks.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Well, I think that's definitely going to be our place here. I think that there's a need. So in America, there's a thing called the. It's called afwa. AFWA is the association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies. And it's really this organization that takes all the game and fish agencies for the different states. They all come together and they talk about, you had an anti hunting issue, or you've got a feral pig issue, or you've got, what did you do? And it's almost like a sort of sounding board for all of these different agencies to connect and move different issues forward, policy issues, recommendations, whatnot. We can be that glue here. You can do it at the state level.

[Kai Furnow]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Convene a meeting of everybody. How can we help you?

[Callum McGrady]

Creating a cohesive base in the culture, I think is quite important because there's so much interest and it's culturally significant for so many people. But there isn't a collective culture like there is in America. I mean, that's what we're kind of missing.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

And the collective then go above at the state level, go not, wouldn't say federal level, but national level. So you bring everybody from, you know, the people out of Queensland, Victoria and Western Australia, and you bring them together and you go, okay, guys, you've never met each other. Yeah, here's the forum. Yeah. You know, how can we collectively move forward? Things that you're interested in, you're interested in, you're dealing with this, you're dealing with that. Oh, you happen to be dealing with the same issues. Talk to each other.

[Kai Furnow]

See, and I'm, I'm not a major conspiracy theorist. I am a little bit at times, I will admit. But I feel like it's this, this ploy to keep us in our lanes because if we're divided, then they only have to conquer 100 people here, 100 people there to get. To take things away. Whereas we all want the Same thing. At the end of the day, we want to be able to, you know, eat sustainably, enjoy the outdoors, bring our families out there, gain access to beautiful places. And it's like at the end of the day, we have this through thread and we've just got to recognize it and recognize that we need to. To pull together to. To be able to keep the things we love to do.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Yeah, watch my camera there, Lucas. Yeah, exactly. I know you got business to do. Well, Kai Funo, welcome to the Origins foundation podcast.

[Kai Furnow]

Thank you.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Callum McGrady, the. Get that right.

[Callum McGrady]

Kelly McGrady. Thank you very much.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

I got it correct. Part of the new Wild Origins Australia team. They haven't got your video yet, buddy.

[Callum McGrady]

It's coming.

[Kai Furnow]

I said before we walked in, like.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Robbie'S going to hammer you.

[Kai Furnow]

I was like, you need to get it to Cassie while I'm gone.

[Callum McGrady]

I'm all over it.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Perfect. Perfect. Give you background. Well, we know you're famous.

[Kai Furnow]

I'm not famous. My mom thinks I am.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Naked and afraid. Kai Furnow, but also stuntwoman extraordinaire, survivalist.

[Kai Furnow]

You know, I've worn a few hats and I've done a few things. It's been an adventurous life.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

And we live here in Victoria.

[Kai Furnow]

Yes.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Not on a cattle station or sheep station like I believed. Both of you were living on.

[Callum McGrady]

On and off, occasionally part time cattle station musterers, rustlers, ranchers.

[Kai Furnow]

So I think that misconception comes from the fact that when Covid hit.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Oh, that's right, you guys live. That's the exact. That's exactly why I have the perception that I have.

[Kai Furnow]

Yeah. So we. I was in America, Kaylin was in England, and we didn't know where to go to and Victoria was shutting down. So we came to Australia on the last planes from the States and from the uk Landed like they weren't even sure if they were going to land our planes. And then we were like, well, where do we go now? And my cousin had 36,000 acres and he was like, I'm going to need people to help me out over this little bit of time. And so we headed out there and that's. And we ended up making a TV show about it.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

How's it as you do? Of course, like, all right, what do finest people do? Oh, let's make a TV show.

[Kai Furnow]

Right, right. It was kind of a funny story, though, because I was having a meeting with a production company and we were running late because we were getting some goats for the dinner and I. And it was a zoom meeting and I Turned up for the meeting and I was like, covered in flood because I would just. And. And I'm like, I have, like, hair everywhere. I'm like, I'm so sorry. I've just been skinny a goat for dinner. And they were like, you know, Sydney types. They were city people. And they were like, you what? I was like, yeah. And then. And then they said, well, how soon can we get a camera crew there? That was it.

[Callum McGrady]

Making Covid lemonade.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

She's unbelievable. Callum, your background.

[Callum McGrady]

Background chef in top restaurants turned bushcraft and survival skills instructor.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

So my. The idea that I've been bantering around for the last two days now that I know that you're in the chef world. Okay.

[Kai Furnow]

Like Top Chef.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Okay. So here's the idea. So obviously our narrative here is changing perceptions, changing narratives, introducing people to things that they have a misunderstanding around. Sure. I think food is the vehicle here in Australia. It is the vehicle because it goes from a backyard Barbie to Michelin star restaurant. We've got some great foodies that interact with us. Joe Barrett being here, one of them, with wild pie and discovered wild foods. Amazing. Podcasted with her this morning. And I said, you've got a product that you're interested in getting in front of a lot of different people. Rally, John. Rally up in New South Wales, same situation. I said, why don't we build experiences in which we have. And Dodge has an amazing venue just down the road from him. Does he really? Amazing venue. Was built for weddings. He hate the guy who built it. Hates weddings. Hates brides. Says he hates brides.

[Callum McGrady]

I can imagine.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Yeah. So he's got this amazing venue. Let's bring 17 people to the venue and they have this top notch six course meal. And every course has a story.

[Kai Furnow]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Opening course, ducks, beautiful, whatever, you know, Braised duck with poncho sauce. I'm not a chef. Just making shit up.

[Callum McGrady]

We'll put it on the list. Choux sauce.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Right. Comes the steady. It's.

[Callum McGrady]

It's a thing. We're making it a thing.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

And then with it comes a little postcard about ducks in Victoria, how there's plenty of them, here's how it works, kind of deal issues. And then you have, say, Lucas Cook from Field and Game Australia.

[Kai Furnow]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Five minute, impassioned, passionate, like, boom. Ducks eat it. Everyone loves it.

[Kai Furnow]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Samba course, wild pig course, pie, whatever. Right.

[Kai Furnow]

And those 17 full just listening to it.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Yeah. And those 17 people are, you know, influencers, opinion article writers, journalists, MPs, models, whatever you want to call it. Surfers. And then you Just let them go.

[Kai Furnow]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

And do their thing in their communities and they're going to be like, man, this thing that we just did. And it gets written up here, it gets written up there. And then we do another experience in Victoria. We do another. And it just goes.

[Kai Furnow]

You were talking about how you wanted to.

[Callum McGrady]

I did. I had an experience. I wanted to do some stuff like that on. Along similar lines. Having beautiful shots of the animals being harvested like ducks, you know, on the moors on the estuaries.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Yep. Yep.

[Callum McGrady]

Somewhere on the walls. No moors here. But where I'm from, we love a.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Moor source in a moor here in Australia.

[Kai Furnow]

Going to call it Poncho sauce in a moor.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

I love it.

[Callum McGrady]

Beautiful. Yeah. So what I wanted to do was with my working with Aboriginal communities. I've also done quite a bit of work with remote indigenous communities and doing an experience where we could eat traditional bush tuckers. If we could work it out with the whole. I don't know what the system would be like.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Yep.

[Callum McGrady]

If it was harvested by Aboriginal people and put on an experience where it was hosted by them to introduce some things that aren't on the menu that I think should be more kangaroo, for instance. Terrible pest species. Well, that's the.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Joe was talking about how the. Why are we not eating kangaroo? Joe. While Wall beach goes. Kangaroo goes down like bucket of shit. Nobody wants it.

[Kai Furnow]

We were sitting next to. At the Chaser dinner. We were sitting next to a man who runs the wild foods there. Like he does.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Macro meats.

[Kai Furnow]

Was it Mac?

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Was it macro meats? They're big in South Australia. Maybe.

[Callum McGrady]

I can't remember his name.

[Kai Furnow]

He doesn't sound like the name.

[Callum McGrady]

He said he has 400 hunters that go out every night to supply his company and they hunt ferals.

[Kai Furnow]

But he said that. Actually getting more requests. A kangaroo now, so different.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

So macro meats is. Macro parts. Is all. Is all kangaroos.

[Callum McGrady]

No, it's all ferals.

[Kai Furnow]

This.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Yes, it is. Name.

[Kai Furnow]

Yeah.

[Callum McGrady]

For sure. I should have taken apart.

[Kai Furnow]

Really should have my name too.

[Callum McGrady]

We'll find it and we'll flitter through the.

[Kai Furnow]

Yeah.

[Callum McGrady]

The couple of people that follow you and find our ears.

[Kai Furnow]

Nicola would know.

[Callum McGrady]

Nicholas and Nicola.

[Kai Furnow]

But. Yeah. And he is saying that there are now kangaroos getting in demand. Like before it was simply pet foods and now they're moving into the finer foods and they said the mince is going down a tree and the sausages are going down a tree and they're just sort of moving into the stakes. But it. And then I saw an article recently Saying they're just considering putting kangaroo as a wild edible species. But I mean it's a no brainer where we're from in South Australia. So the reason that farm is so dear to my heart is that's where I grew up. So that just down the road from that, the red. And there's like millions of kangaroos on my cousin's property. Like it's like, I don't know if you've seen a mouse plague where you open the cupboard and the mice go everywhere. If you drive in his paddocks, he's like that with kangaroos and they just can't, they can't control them. He has a thousand tags a year to get the kangaroos. It costs him, cost him too much to work that eradication program. But they're everywhere and they're such an incredible source of food and nutrients.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Unbelievable.

[Kai Furnow]

I don't.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Yeah, well then you've also got the silliness of know we fight bans all over the world. You've got this, you know the state of California banning the use of kangaroo.

[Callum McGrady]

Leather for soccer Adidas of making the boots. It's a byproduct from the harvesting of feral kangaroos. We're not going out and shooting them for the exclusive purposes of creating boots. It's an emergency and it encourages people. People don't want to cull kangaroos anymore because there's not a lot of money in it. Taking that away, taking the value, all value.

[Kai Furnow]

And I sat next to for a second this lady and I was like, oh, what are you doing? She said I'm in charge of kangaroo, the commercial use of kangaroo. And I said, well how do you feel about the fact that this kangaroo leather has been taken off the market? I said there's going to be a lot of farmers and people who lose an income as a result. And she's like, oh, she was at like the greenies table and she was like, I mean they're still selling the meat. I'm like, give it. They're killing the kangaroos. They've got the meat they use. Shouldn't we use it all? And she is the lady in charge of using kangaroos in commercial purposes. And she had never even thought about the fact that it's now waste that.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

We had Georgie Purcell go to Washington D.C. advocating for the banning of kangaroo leather in America.

[Kai Furnow]

She's claiming that she's the one that single handedly got rid of it.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

It's ridiculous. Yeah. And it's the same narrative all over the world. Take kangaroos out Replace it with elephants, take elephants out, replace it with wolves. Take wolves out, replace it with grizzlies. Take grizzlies out, replace it with polar bears. It's the same situation all over the world. Everyone needed, we needed to save wildlife in the 70s, 80s, 90s, early 2000s. You're absolutely right. We did. Now we're not in a save the wildlife system anymore. We're in a sustain the wildlife, manage the wildlife system. And how do you bring value to your point, Callum, how do you bring value to that wildlife more so that it's actually valued more? So the farmer who's got a thousand tags of kangaroo, if he could get money from the leather, if he could get money from the meat, do you think he will value kangaroos more or less in the future?

[Callum McGrady]

Yeah.

[Kai Furnow]

And they make it really hard to get them harvest the meat as well. Like, we looked.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Oh, my gosh.

[Kai Furnow]

And it's like, you have to.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

It's Australia, right? It's the rules and regulations, the bureaucracy and hurdles of just doing anything. I told Anthony Roe, who lives an hour and a half away from you, Dharma. Dharma Free Range Venison.

[Kai Furnow]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

I asked him, like, what does. Tell me the process? He told me his license. But then there's a butcher component to it, so there's a government vet that does all the stamping. And then the butcher has to be able to be wild game certified, too.

[Kai Furnow]

And it has to be kitchen safe. Like, so if you're out there and you have a. Like you shooting kangaroos, it needs to be this. Then it needs to be taken straight to a kitchen safe area, Whether it's like a van that you drive around.

[Callum McGrady]

Trey has to be compliant with their standards.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Oh. He said, like, the hand washing and the water and everything had to be within a meter of him doing whatever he was doing.

[Kai Furnow]

And it was like 20,000 or something to set it up. And then another extra. You had to have it certified every year. And you break it down and it makes it not cost effective at the end of the day.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

No, it's crazy. I thought about. I told Anthony, I said, if the stumbling block is like the butchers saying, well, we don't really want to get the license because, yeah, we've got everything other. Everything else is other squared away. But the license is something we just don't want to pay for. But there's hunters like you guys around that would be like, oh, if my butcher is wild game certified, I'd take wild game to them. Yeah. I was like, well, why don't we Build a subsidy program. We'll pay for it, we'll go raise the money, and we get, you know, double the amount of wild game butchers in Victoria.

[Callum McGrady]

Well, technically speaking, you're not allowed to share deer meat with anyone outside of your immediate family.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Hell no. Just crazy rules.

[Callum McGrady]

The reason that comes into being, I don't know. But the problem is, is everyone will say that deer are pest species. But also we've got on the other hand, that saba deer are endangered everywhere in the world but here. So eradication is against the best intentions for the species.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Right.

[Callum McGrady]

And also people aren't going in to hunt them. People are hunting on the fringes. People aren't encouraged to go deeper in to do a better job because we do need to control them slightly better.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Right.

[Callum McGrady]

Being able to share it, being able to do more with it. I don't believe how you would want that rule to be in place.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Dude, even a Hunters for the hungry program, 100%.

[Kai Furnow]

Like there's one up in Queensland that does it. I don't know how they manage it, but I know there is people in Queensland that do hunt and ring it to the homeless shelter. Genius. Like, like sometimes we, like, we couldn't even give some of their meat away. Like our freezer got full and we were offering it to the neighbors and everyone's like, oh, know, you know, like there's this stigma of.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Kayla was like hitting you saying, stop talking about this on global podcast.

[Callum McGrady]

Not by neighbors we're talking about or immediate family.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Immediate family that live next door that.

[Callum McGrady]

Live in the same house, actually.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kai Furnow]

It's the truth.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

No, look, I think that there's. Again we talk about our strategy for Wild Origins Australia. Yeah, that whole what we just outlined other things we should be focusing on. Like there is a sustainable use component to resources here in Australia.

[Kai Furnow]

Right.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

How can we help that happen more? Yeah, how can we empower, you know, and we're not a business. We're a non profit. We will be a nonprofit here. Yeah, but you know, like a Macro Meats, that is a business. A venison business or a wild pie. Discovered wild foods. Hey, discovered wild foods. How. How good PR would it be if you had a side component to your business that was hunters for the hungries?

[Kai Furnow]

Right.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Great pr. Yeah. There should be. I was saying this earlier. Again, this is logistically impossible. I know. But there should be freezers all over Australia full of venison, kangaroo everywhere, and it should be free. It should be like these. This is part and parcel of like almost like the, you know, the little libraries that you people put up and you can get a free book and you put a book back freezes everywhere. Just come get, come get meat.

[Callum McGrady]

How spectacular would that be? A fundamental. What should be a fundamental.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Human rights, which is another thing, another piece of the narrative to play, right? This is basic human rights that we're advocating for here. Like who's going to say no to you standing up in parliament in Victoria saying we would like a Hunters for the Hungry program. And one of the reasons we want it is that as a basic human right, nobody in Victoria should be hungry. So tell me why this is a bad thing.

[Callum McGrady]

The cost of living is atrocious. Buying meat, I mean I don't go to the supermarket and spend less than $100 when I just want mints. And to buy meat is crazy. And there are lots of families out there that are choosing between meat and a recreation activity. It shouldn't be that way. It should be just a fundamental normality that everyone gets to eat meat. It sounds crazy to talk about. So these are the realities that we're talking about at the moment.

[Kai Furnow]

Yes, I agree.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

No, look, I think that the.

[Kai Furnow]

Sorry, I just went off onto that whole thing about in my head about the fact that they're trying to get us to not eat meat anymore and the meat ticks in America and the um, that's what terrifies me the most is I actually last time was in Africa.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Imagine getting that, that Lone Star tick. Lone Star tick. Being allergic to freaking red meat.

[Kai Furnow]

I got bit by a Lone Star tick in Africa because they have them there now. And it, I didn't know if it had latched on or not, but it was on my hip and I was terrified. Like, never mind the, the lions, never mind the leopards, never mind the rhinos. I was like, oh my gosh, I'm not going to be able to eat me anymore.

[Callum McGrady]

Well, it would just mean 100 birds for every one deer that would normally get.

[Kai Furnow]

No, I couldn't imagine. So when you're talking about the red meat, that's where my brain went. It's like, oh.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

So growing up, did you, I'll ask you first, did you hunt grow up?

[Callum McGrady]

We did grow up. I was from a family that didn't hunt. I actually had to train myself to be able to.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Not only you, were you doing this in England?

[Callum McGrady]

In England, yeah. So I couldn't actually, I mean the 15 year old me couldn't imagine killing an animal. I was like super, I would say soft for lack of a better Word soft. And I had to.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

But you ate meat.

[Callum McGrady]

But I ate meat. So I had to make my actions match my ethos rather than reverse engineering my morality to fit my character flow.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Were you talking like this as a 14 year old?

[Callum McGrady]

Yeah, yeah, I was, yeah.

[Kai Furnow]

He wakes up talking like this, right?

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

I love it.

[Callum McGrady]

So, yeah, so I embarked on a four year mission. I started shooting guns, I started shooting bows, but I wasn't allowed to bow hunt. But it was all encompassing. I wanted to make sure I mastered the tools in order to harvest. And then I went from there and became familiar with dispatch. Learning how to best kill an animal, best do it as humanely as possible. And yeah, then I started with small game and worked my way up.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

So let me ask this as maybe a little bit of a philosophical question. Why was it important for you to understand dispatch?

[Callum McGrady]

Because I think people don't actually realize how they would kill an animal. And when I talk to people who eat meat, who don't hunt, I say, well, what would you do if you were in a survival situation? Being resigned to survival. And they always say, well, if I had to, then I would. And my response is always, if you had to, you couldn't. Because where would you start? What would you do? Knowing whether. Where's the heart inside of the.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

You don't think that somebody would just figure it out primarily, it should be natural.

[Callum McGrady]

It is if you're a snake. But most people, I think you've been.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

In the environment probably better than anybody. I was having this conversation with somebody today that, you know, when somebody hunts for the very first time and kills an animal, there's something just like, you can't really put your finger on it. Like there's something like, whoa. And I think it's the primal, like something in our DNA, you're called in the blood. Blood origin, for sure. Yeah. Something innately in us, which to me is instinct.

[Callum McGrady]

Let me just reiterate when I said that they couldn't, I mean, they couldn't in the sense of knowing how to, say, sever the spinal column to kill a rabbit. How to. If they were given a gun or a bow, where they would aim. Where's the vitals inside of the chest cavity? When I talk about knowing how to. In that regard, I think there's something natural. I mean, if you leave kids on their own, they want to build shelters, they want to go out and they want to do things that are very humanistic, naturalistic. Missing spears, shooting boats, build fires.

[Kai Furnow]

Yeah, See, and in answer to your question, like when I Try and explain to people that moment when I, When I bow. Hunted my first animal, and it's like I was a little bit out of alignment and I got my own meat and everything just clicked into place. Like, was one of the most feeling of the most right moments in my life. And it wasn't the killing, it was the providing for myself, the sustenance I needed to move forward. And so it was such a primal thing in that moment. Like, it was just like, this is the way I should be living. This is the way we should be living. This is the way I should be getting my food. And, you know, I know quite often people talk about the photos they see on the Internet with someone going like, oh, I got, you know, with their animal. And it's not a. A celebration that something's died. It's this, like, moment of.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

So that's the problem, right? That's the. Everyone. This world is about perception, right?

[Kai Furnow]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

And the perception of hunting is the photo. That's it.

[Callum McGrady]

It's a smile, isn't it?

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

And. And it's the smile. It's the smile. Like, these people are happy that they killed an animal, that it's dead, that they did that thing.

[Kai Furnow]

They. They're killers.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

But that's the comm again. It's all tied to communication today, right? So that's how we communicated as hunters before the social media world was invented. That's how you communicate. I'm a hunter, You're a hunter. Let me show you my animal that I hunted. Here it is.

[Kai Furnow]

And the celebration of it. Because you're like, yes, look at this thing that we did. Like, there's this joy of getting skilled enough to be able to, like, provide for yourself in that moment, enjoying.

[Callum McGrady]

When it came to crunch time, you. You did it.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

You did it.

[Callum McGrady]

And I think the problem is perception over perspective, because from their perception, they don't have a perspective on how the person feels. All they know is that all I.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

See is a dead animal and somebody who's joyous.

[Callum McGrady]

Who's joyous. And for me to be able to do that, I would have to be what I'm not. And that's a bad person, because I'm a good person. And I see anyone who can do that as a bad person because it would make me feel bad. So all they can see is that you're obviously a bad person. And it's funny, I had a misconception when I first started hunting that there were some people who were nefarious in the community. And what I did is I Went on to forums to find those people. And what I found is those people care more about animals than the anti hunters. I find is really the case.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

No, I think that one, a feather that we should be, you know, waving constantly. That's why I was asking about the sort of philosophically tied to the dispatch is I think the biggest feather in our cap is animal welfare all the time. Like why do we practice? Why do we increase our recruitment? Why do we constantly like do this thing? Because we hunt. Because the ultimate component of hunting is killing something and you want to kill that thing. Okay. That's why you practice. Like, I want that thing, I want it, I want it, I want it. I want to be as effective as possible to get that thing and sometimes directly. In your case, I would say it would be directly most often for the 99% of people walking around here. Be indirectly, you're actually being more humane in your dispatch. You're thinking how efficient you are in taking the animal's life. You're reducing pain, you're reducing everything, all the elements of animal welfare and animal ethics. Indirectly because I've been practicing shooting my bow 30 times a day for the last hundred days for this one hunt. Why do you do that? Oh, because I want to get that animal. Yeah. Great. But actually you, you are making yourself more efficient, more humane really trying to get that animal down as quickly as possible. You should be celebrating that. Like the Georgie Purcell's, like we're more animal welfare than you.

[Kai Furnow]

I'm more in touch with the environment and the outdoors. You know, like she is the rural representative and she has a little bit of property and she was like, I love going outside. This is me on my lawn. And I.

[Callum McGrady]

That was. Somebody said that she doesn't even go outside and they were obviously referring to out in nature. So in retort she put up a picture of herself on a ride on mower in her front garden.

[Kai Furnow]

Like Ms.

[Callum McGrady]

The, Ms. The mark there on that one.

[Kai Furnow]

It's the connection that people don't see with it as well. Like every time we're out walking, it's more than just I'm walking in the path. Like there's the sights, the sounds, the smells, the, the looking at the ground. You're always looking for tracks. Like so different.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

You're exactly right.

[Kai Furnow]

Like, and you're smell like you, you're smelling the wind, you're looking at the direction. Like so every time we go into the environment, we're not doing it for the Instagram story. We're. We're feeling it and seeing it, absorbing it in such another level that people don't even comprehend, then you go to.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Go ahead.

[Callum McGrady]

So I was just going to say the understanding as well. When someone goes into the bush, they don't actually realize. They don't see 90% of the animals. And the birds aren't singing like the kookaburra isn't singing because it's having a joyous day. I can tell the kookaburra singing because it's territorial. There could be a sambo over there. It could be something. It could be because of me, what's going on? You can read nature so much better when you have an intrinsic link to it. And that's what hunting provides. It's a true link to nature.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

When you go to Africa, have you been there before?

[Callum McGrady]

I haven't and I cannot wait.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

So in Kruger national park, you're not going to get to Kruger, but you'll see the same thing, okay. When you're in, wherever you go, there's going to be a certain species of animal that's abundant. The one in Kruger national park is an impala. Okay? There are a million impala in Kruger National Park. So when you drive into Kruger national park for the very first time, you see your first hero impala, you stop. You're like, oh, man, look at that. You drive on another kilometer, two kilometers, another herd of impala, you stop. Oh, look, there's more impala. And that's probably the last time you stopped for an impala.

[Kai Furnow]

Yeah, okay. Yeah.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

I wasn't a hunter until the last. Like, really, I only started when I'm 26. I'm 46, 47 now. So 20 years in America, but really only in this space properly understanding what's a big animal, what's a small animal kind of thing. Lost 10 years and I hadn't been back to Krueger. And last November I got to go into Kruger for the first time and I stopped. And every time I stopped it, I would stop at every impala impala and the first thing I'd look for I would be like, where's the male? Oh, he's a big male. Oh, he's a small male. Oh, it's a bachelor hurt. Let me look at the males. And you honestly have a greater appreciation of the animal, the animal welfare, like feather. I guarantee you I appreciate impala more than the average tourist because I hunt.

[Kai Furnow]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

It was mind blowing and to your point, like, you're a part of it, right? You're constantly thinking, even if you're just going for A walk. Oh, what's the wind doing right now?

[Kai Furnow]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Oh, what's that track? Oh, what's that scat?

[Kai Furnow]

Like, even the clouds in the sky, you know, like, I just don't comprehend how people walk through nature and don't see it all, you know, but it. It is different when the direction the wind is. Can decide whether you eat tonight or not. And so you do tend to pay attention to those things.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Did you. How did you grow up?

[Kai Furnow]

Same, really. Like, none of my family hunts. I was a vegetarian for 20 years, so doctor's orders. I had some genetic condition that meant I take too much iron out of food. And. And at that stage, the understanding was you either donated blood or you. You just avoided me. So I just avoided meat. And then I was getting sick.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Would fish have iron and stuff like that or you just cold turkey? Everything.

[Kai Furnow]

It was just. There wasn't really much choice. They were just like, you don't eat meat or you. You know, I mean, I would eat a little bit of fish every now and then, but then I did my first Naked and Afraid as a vegetarian. And I remember we got a nutria, which is like, oh, my gosh.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Yeah, nutria out of Louis. Wet meat.

[Kai Furnow]

Yeah, yeah. And my body, when I ate that, I could feel it just creating change within my body. And it was like, wow. You know, you don't get that feeling.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Because you hadn't explored it. I assume you just, well, that's it. Like, I'm done. 20 years veg. Never thought about, like, oh, let me try it again, just to.

[Kai Furnow]

And you don't get that feeling from broccoli. Like, you don't get that feeling of like, whoa. And it hits you and it's like a sugar rush, but it's like, from the. The nutrients in the meat. And. And then I read an article saying that that condition could actually be cured by going carnivore. And I went the next day and ate like three steaks. So I was just like, went from nothing to everything. And my. And I felt amazing. And I've never looked back. And I've been so fit and strong and healthy as a result. And then even as a kid, if I was going to eat, like, going fishing, if I was going to eat the fish I caught, I wanted to kill it myself. Like, I just had this sense of responsibility to the animal. So I decided if I was going to eat animals, I was going to hunt them myself and just went out and. And then I was like, well, I grew up using guns on the property, but it Never felt quite right. And even as a stunt performer, like, the weapons I loved were the older style weapons. Like, I love a good sword rather than a gun, you know, And I was like, well, maybe I'll go back with the. And I picked up a compound. I'm like, oh, like too many moving parts. And the thing that felt best in my hands was the recurve bow. So I just really. I went from there. But my family still look at me like I'm a bit strange, you know, like, if we're staying with them and we're butchering a deer in the backyard, my mum's horrified. Like, it's just. And. And even as we said before, she eats meat, right? Yeah. But it's like she gets. She now eats Caleb's mince. Loves the mints because he adds a few spices and stuff. But we, you know, it's just really hard to get. Get them to even eat it, even though they enjoy it just because of the thought of it. So everyone. Yeah.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Never again love these conversations because have they just never thought about how that steak ended up on their plate?

[Callum McGrady]

I think it's.

[Kai Furnow]

But they just would.

[Callum McGrady]

You don't. You don't have to think about when it's in the packet.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

It's fine.

[Callum McGrady]

And it's something we're conditioned to, like, you know, if it's a pig, it's a cow, it's a chicken, it's on the table, everything else isn't. And then you just move the line as you start exploring.

[Kai Furnow]

So I think it's just. And my mom is a very genteel English lady and I think, you know, she can't even in her world comprehend the blood on the hands or the, you know, the dirt under the nails. And so it's the whole lifestyle of it all, I think is confronting for her because she wouldn't choose it.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Yeah.

[Callum McGrady]

I think the social stigma is another.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Yeah. What about your family?

[Callum McGrady]

Yeah, I mean, stopped eating lamb because we moved house to the country and we had to drive past some lambs every day. So the lamb was off the table. It was like that. You know, if it's in a packet, it's okay. Cut the head.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Even today.

[Callum McGrady]

Even today. I mean, my mum passed away, unfortunately.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Oh, I'm sorry.

[Callum McGrady]

But up until recently.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Yeah.

[Callum McGrady]

Even to this day, almost, you don't.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Have these philosophical conversations. The way that you're talking to me.

[Callum McGrady]

Right now, always with everybody. Yeah, I like to like to keep it philosophical, for sure.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Well, you should definitely. When we get the podcast up and running in Wild Origins Australia. You should definitely make it like a regular appearance and talk about ethos and philosophy and stuff like that because again that's again things that people don't do in the Australian market. Like there's no Australian podcast that's thinking podcasts, talking hard conversation kind of podcasts.

[Kai Furnow]

And he's very, very good at that. Like he's got this brain that just remembers the facts and figures and you made it not. Not a game. But you really enjoyed debating a lot of non meat eaters online for quite a while.

[Callum McGrady]

I would love to. I think I have a few flexed my philosophical muscles enough that I could go up against. I'd love to talk to Georgie Purcell if she would be up for a Trump chat, be amazing and talk to the people on the opposing side because we can either meet in the middle or they can convince me or I can convince them. Like a nice long form debate over the subject is what the people deserve.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

I love it. Like I'm telling you my best podcasts when people ask like give me a podcast that you should, that I should listen to. It is my Q&As with people that I just say I've met them online. There's like episode number six, we've done 600 and something. Number six was with Mimo Somme 18 year old Kenyan environmental activist who slid into my DMs and said I do not get. What did she say? I do not get the premise of your Instagram. And I explained it. Nope, still don't get it. I said come on my podcast don't know me from a virus. So you can ask me anything you want and I'll answer it. And it was an hour and a half that 45 minutes. You can hear her just go. Jan Wiederstrom, you know Jen Weiderstrom.

[Kai Furnow]

Yeah, I love Jen.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

So Jen and I same circles Sorenex, Bert, Soren circles, Jen Wiederstrom whenever we get tagged into posts. Yeah I will say what we have to say and then I'll look to see is anybody I know anybody famous that we can talk to. Yeah, there's a big crocodile post. A big guy shot a monster croc. It was strung up in the tree, not a great photo and was picked up by a big anti hunting group called Kamigawa. We've gone head to head with Kamagawa. I've gone head to head with Tim Sykes and so we were tagged in. I said my piece about the crocodile, so scroll down. Jen Wiederstrom. How disgusting. Da da da. So I DM Her. And I said, jen, you don't know me. I don't know you, but I know Bert. You know Bert. Bum, bum, bum. I said, what this picture doesn't show are the six pairs of shoes that came out of its stomach. It was a man eating croc. She was like, oh, my God. How do you know that? I said, well, here, let me show you the other photos that I have. Yeah, same for crocodile. She was like, why aren't they saying that? And I said, jim, they don't want to say that. It's against what they want, their narrative. So then we met in person. We started talking about trophy hunting.

[Kai Furnow]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

And I said, why don't we just do a podcast, Jen? She was like, I'd love that. And that was awesome. Just a Q and A. Yeah. Jen asking like, I don't get people trophy hunting. I said, well, let me break it down to you. Who should we hunt if we were. If you are okay with hunting, Jen, are you okay with hunting? She said, yes, I'm okay with hunting. Okay. And you want the population to grow, right? Yes, but I don't get that. I said, okay, I'll explain that later. But you want a population to grow. What do you hunt in that population? Who do you hunt in that population to make it grow? Do you hunt the females? Oh, no, no, no, no, no. That's your reproductive engine. I agree. Yes, you're right. Do we hunt the young? No, that's disgusting. Agreed. You don't hunt the young.

[Kai Furnow]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

What about the young breeding males? The fit males? Maybe, but that doesn't sound right. I agree. So who should we hunt? Jen should hunt me, the old curmudgeonly male, right? Yes. Okay, we agree. It just so happens I have big horns. Yeah, that's it. If I didn't have big horns, we'd still be hunting that portion of the population because we want more wildlife.

[Callum McGrady]

Yeah, 100%. And also, if I was that big male, I'd rather be hunted. You know, he's got something like, what, a 10% chance he's going to die during the rut? He's not going to get to breed. What is he going to die of? He's going to die of freezing to death, starving to death, being killed by being impaled by another antler. He's got, like. It's not a nice way to go for anybody. I mean, no animals die in their beds surrounded by their families. If I had the choice, I'd rather be on the wall than in a pit, because I can't Properly.

[Kai Furnow]

We learned about this tribe when we were listening to a podcast where when the older people start lagging behind, like it was a nomadic tribe, someone just comes up behind them and bops them on the head. And I was like. I was like, that's how I want to go. Like, when I start holding my tribe back, if someone could come and just bop me on the head and then they'll be perfect. I just think we just bop the things on the head that are.

[Callum McGrady]

You just give me the nod.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Just make sure it's in writing, too.

[Kai Furnow]

When I have to do the nod, Like, I have to be totally unaware of it. Like, just. I'm feeling all right, but, you know, I'm just starting much rather.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Oh, you definitely need to have those conversations and be a part of it, because you'd get as much out of it as the person does and the community does. Right. I love those. It's just. It's just, again, you. You flexing that knowledge that you have in your brain, and you're not doing it in a pretentious way. It's like, well, ask me the questions. I've read the answers.

[Callum McGrady]

I'd like to be convinced. I'm not here to just dictate to people. I did a few vegan podcasts found incredibly interesting. There was a couple that were not having it. It didn't go particularly well, at least for them, I don't think. And there was a couple of guys, though, that we had a conversation. In the end, it was wonderful. A guy from Africa who used to hunt and then one day had this epiphany while looking into the eyes of the duck and felt like it was this big criminal event that he'd been a part of. And we talked about it, and it got to the point where I think if I would have really gone at it, I could have talked him around. Such a nice guy. But now his entire life was basically surrounded by the fact that he was a vegan. So I didn't want to, like, destroy his sphere of.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

No, but even vegans, man, you have rational vegans and you have the extreme vegan, right? Extreme vegan, you're not going to change their mind. But the rational vegan, you say to them, how if. If you were to eat meat, if. How would you do it? Yeah, do it the way we do it. That's as close to your vegan lifestyle as you can get. Especially, again, waving that animal welfare feather.

[Kai Furnow]

It's one of the most sustainable ways of feeding yourself, is the way we do it. Like if you break it down at the end of the day per calories versus cropping and, and vegetables and land clearing and, you know, going out into a species that's abundant in. In the wild and taking one, you feed your family of four for three months, it's like such a minimal impact on the environment.

[Callum McGrady]

Funny. Just what popped into my head, what you said about it being innate in us. I've got a friend from England, my friend Luke, and he's got a girlfriend and she is one of those hardcore anonymous face playing saboteurs, like Ghost the Saboteur stuff. Obsessive vegan. And I think he would probably be into hunting if he could. Anyway, they've got a PlayStation and she is obsessed with hunter. Call of the Wild. She will sit there on a game in a blind waiting to shoot a trophy, but she is obsessed with it. She can't eat. She absolutely loves it. And I'm trying to explain to him that she is like naturally a hunter and she needs to get past this and. Yeah, obsessed with the game.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

That's crazy. You need to introduce her to Katie Hargreaves. Katie Hargreaves is an artist in England.

[Callum McGrady]

Oh, yeah.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

Who's a vegan, but has hunted and has eaten the animal she hunted. And the reason she said that is because she. I said, well, how does that fit? Because it fits perfectly. I took out a Chinese water deer. Was overpopulated in this area, was causing harm to the population, health harm to the population. Population. And so I was benefiting the population. Like from an animal welfare perspective, I was benefiting it by taking that life. And as such, that meat then is essentially vegan. How's that? Okay.

[Kai Furnow]

Yes. Whatever it takes to justify the.

[Callum McGrady]

Yeah, well, technically speaking, if you talk to people who insist it's not a diet, there's actually an ethos. And ethos is minimal, lives lost. If you take the dive into consideration from. I'll show you about this epiphany before, but from cropping from pesticides, from creating fertilizers. The number one organic fertilizer is crustaceans. All of these things from tillering the soil. We're talking millions of deaths. They were not even talking about the millions of insects that die from pesticides. All of these deaths. If you are a carnivore that just eats meat and you get one sambar, that sambar can feed one person for a year. So that's one death from a hunter as opposed to the hundreds of thousands of deaths from all the animals along the way of creating vegetables. So really, technically speaking, to be a true vegan, you have to be a carnivore hunter.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

I can't argue with that.

[Callum McGrady]

Sounds paradoxical, but it's a fact.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

I can't wait for you to be on the Wild Origins Australia podcast. Let's go. Look, I know that you guys have got to go. I appreciate your time.

[Kai Furnow]

Yes.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

So good meeting you for the very first time. So, a pleasure. But we're going to do a lot of good work here. We're going to take this. We have. We've taken this community by storm and we've got more to do.

[Kai Furnow]

And I'm just looking forward to being able to help you create a focal point for unity in Australia. You know, I think that's. That's the bottom line for me is together we can make lasting change in a positive direction. And. And it needs everybody to step into that plate and up to that plate.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

And it needs somebody to, you know, pick everybody by the scraps of their necks and say, come on, we're all together. Yeah, we'll do it.

[Kai Furnow]

Definitely.

[Host (possibly a representative of Wild Origins Australia)]

For sure. Cheers. Well, that's it for today. I appreciate you listening, as always. Leave a review, share it with your friends, and most importantly, do what's right to convey the truth around hunting.