Episode 620 - Marilyn Vetter || Marilyn’s P.A.T.H.

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Origins Foundation Podcast – Episode 620
Title: Marilyn Vetter || Marilyn’s P.A.T.H.
Date: January 27, 2026
Host: The Origins Foundation (Robbie)
Guest: Marilyn Vetter, CEO of Pheasants Forever & Quail Forever

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the work and philosophy of Marilyn Vetter, CEO of Pheasants Forever and Quail Forever. Marilyn shares her journey into conservation leadership, the critical role of hunting communities in habitat preservation, and innovative access-incentive programs like PATH (Public Access To Habitat). The conversation presents a candid, behind-the-scenes look at conservation, private landowner partnerships, and how rural American towns are revitalized by hunting and habitat access programs—all while showcasing the personal passions that drive Marilyn’s conservation ethic.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Marilyn’s Background and Path to Leadership

• Marilyn's unconventional path: She spent 20 years in the biopharmaceutical industry, primarily as a lobbyist, while dog training was her central hobby. Her deep involvement in the North American Versatile Hunting Dog Association led her to Pheasants Forever’s board, and later, to becoming CEO.
  • “My career, most of my life, was in the biopharmaceutical space... As my hobby I was a German short hair pointer dog training trialing enthusiast... That was my hobby since, well, since high school when I met my husband and we got our first short hair.” (05:04)
• The unique, blind hiring process for the CEO role at PF/QF, which Marilyn describes as daunting but ultimately rewarding.
  • “It was a cruel process because it was 100% blinded to the nominating committee... I feel absolutely blessed that they had the faith in me.” (11:07)

Women, Dogs, & Upland Hunting

• The dog connection as a gateway for women:
  • “It has just absolutely blossomed in the community for particularly for women. The dog gets them here, the birds keep them, and the experience keeps them.” (09:33)

The Role of Private Landowners in Conservation

• Deep respect for private land stewards and the love of the land as central to effective conservation.
  • “This country’s commitment to the hunting heritage... is rooted in that. Our public lands are incredible... but what I think is going to be even stronger in the future is creating that mosaic where you have public and private lands.” (14:22)
• Need for incentive and liability protections to encourage landowners to open lands for public hunting.
  • “If we need to find ways to incentivize and reward those private landowners to open their lands to others, we have to. ...there’s a ton of work that’s put into it. There’s a lot of liability.” (15:21)
  • Montana’s block management cited as a working example (16:50).

PATH: Public Access to Habitat

• Origins: Inspired by Aberdeen, SD, business owners incentivizing local landowners for public access.
• Rapid growth: Over 133,000 acres opened through programs in South Dakota, Nebraska, Oklahoma, and more in just 2.5 years.
  • “The first year, our goal was... 10,000 acres... In a little over two years, almost 72,000 acres in [South Dakota]... Nebraska there’s 51,000 acres... 133,000 acres in a little over two years.” (20:24; 21:32)
• Process: 5-year contracts, biologist verification for habitat quality, average payout ~$25/acre.
• Expansion: Other states and even Canadian provinces are looking to replicate the model.
  • “Nebraska said, hey, what about us?... Oklahoma... North Dakota is going to be... So, you know, we would love to be able to say we could do it in 48 states.” (20:24)
• Economic impact on rural communities and businesses identified as a key secondary benefit.
  • “The hotel owner in Patagonia, [AZ], said that 40% of their sales came in during merns hunting season.” (27:15)

Broader Conservation & Economic Themes

• The value of hunting for community economic health, especially for small, rural towns.
• “You pull in, there's this giant stone arch that says, welcome, hunters. Those communities are the ones that are really the targets.” (28:14)
• The non-native status of pheasants acknowledged, but their role as a “catalyst for all of this biodiversity, all this habitat preservation” underlined.
  • “The reason why there's a Pheasants Forever is that it's almost like a catalyst for all of this biodiversity... And it came from an animal that doesn't live here.” (31:04)

Permanent vs. Temporary Protection & Habitat Work

• PF and QF as “intermediaries” in permanent habitat protection, but focus remains primarily on access and temporary conservation due to the high cost of land acquisition.
  • “We've done 232,000 of permanent protection acres since we started in 1983... but... it is so expensive.” (22:56)
• 2 million acres a year are supported through technical assistance programs with landowners (most not open to the public).
  • “We work with about 38,000 landowners a year to tackle over 2 million acres a year of their private land and their conservation dreams.” (40:26)
• Federal and State grant backing makes these services free for landowners (41:29).

Legislative & Policy Context

• Current landscape for conservation programs (CRP, EQIP, WRP) described as stable for the moment, with the recent Senate funding bill reinstating support.
  • “The funding bill... does include CRP. We're excited about that. It's a bridge. It's a one year... We're excited to see that back.” (42:30)
  • “Farm the best, conserve the rest, as we like to say.” (44:57)

Getting Involved

• Encouragement for listeners to join as Pheasants Forever/Quail Forever members, support state and federal habitat stamps, and get active with local chapters.
  • “The best way to get involved... become a member... get involved in a chapter and you’ll learn a ton... Those chapters are just the lifeblood of the organization.” (45:34)
  • “We have 165,000 members and about a half a million supporters and partners.” (45:36)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Marilyn Vetter on the Hiring Process:
  “It was a cruel process because it was 100% blinded to the nominating committee... And it was just phenomenal. And I feel absolutely blessed that they had the faith in me.” (11:07)

• On PATH’s Explosive Growth:
  “Every year we create a goal and we get twice as many applicants to want to be in it. So... we just keep blowing the doors off.” (20:24)

• Community Impact – Patagonia, AZ:
  “Hotel owner... said that 40% of their sales came in during merns hunting season.” (27:15)

• The Role of Non-Native Species in Conservation:
  “It almost... Pheasants are a catalyst for all of this biodiversity, all this habitat preservation, all of the stuff. And it came from an animal that doesn’t live here.” (31:04)

• Heritage and Tradition:
  “The sense of tradition, I think, in Bob White country is stronger than almost anything... to hear the whistle of a bobwhite is just incredible.” (35:15)

• On Big Conservation Numbers:
  “We work with about 38,000 landowners a year to tackle over 2 million acres a year of their private land and their conservation dreams.” (40:26)

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Important Timestamps

• Marilyn’s Background & Entry Into PF/QF: 05:00 – 12:00
• Role of Private Landowners & Access: 14:22 – 16:17
• Incentive Programs & Liability Issues: 16:50 – 20:22
• PATH Program Deep Dive: 20:22 – 25:19
• Community Impact & Expansion: 25:19 – 29:49
• Non-Native Species as Conservation Anchors: 30:14 – 33:04
• Permanent vs. Temporary Habitat Models: 22:31 – 24:16, 39:26 – 41:26
• Working with 38,000 Landowners Annually: 40:26
• Conservation Policy & Program Updates: 42:13 – 44:57
• Getting Involved/Call to Action: 45:12 – 47:25

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Tone & Style

• The conversation is celebratory, authentic, and occasionally playful, with a mutual appreciation for hunting culture, dogs, and rural tradition.
• Emphasis on partnership, gratitude, and community empowerment.
• Marilyn is passionate, practical, and forward-thinking; the host is genuinely curious, supportive, and draws out stories with warmth and humor.

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How to Get Involved

• Join: pheasantsforever.org | quailforever.org
• Follow: PF/QF on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn
• Local Chapters: Find one of 790 chapters across the U.S.
• Support Conservation: Buy state/federal stamps, volunteer on habitat projects, share stories, and become advocates for local and national programs.

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Closing Reflection

This episode is a heartfelt exploration of how a love for the outdoors and dogs can translate into national impact, economic revitalization for rural America, and a new model for conservation partnerships. Marilyn Vetter exemplifies the energy, vision, and grounded leadership driving habitat conservation into the future.

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Transcript

[A]

Marilyn Vetter is the CEO of Pheasants Forever and Quail Forever. She is a dynamo. I met her at the Silence Essential event a couple of weeks ago, and we got on like a house on fire. Talked to her about the Living Legacy project that we had done in Aberdeen for this pheasant sandwich. And I just was. I was inspired chatting to her. And so I was like, man, we need to get you on the podcast. I want to learn more about Pheasants Forever and Quail Forever and that everyone that listens to this learn more about what they do, how Maryland thinks, and some of the exciting things that they have coming, which is actually quite exciting. So I want you to enjoy the podcast if you're interested in getting more information about Pheasants Forever or Quail Forever. It's just pheasants forever.org or quailforever.org so enjoy. So five years ago, there was a reason why I started this movement. And the truth then is the truth now that we need to champion our narrative. We need to champion the truth around what we do and who we are. There's a sweet spot with a gun, you know, too heavy and it's a burden to walk with. Too light and you whipping it. Why is the project so important to the hunting community? It's. It's a. I think it's not only important. I think it's. I think it's vital. I think it's. It's just in time. It's like snakes and ladders. You guys a climbing the ladder and then somebody does something stupid and you just slide down. That is such an amazing analogy. Snakes and ladders. Yeah. You know, ivory. In. In my opinion, was the plastic of its age. Okay.

[B]

The expenses of going up. It goes a long way with families. We have families that do need it.

[A]

Let me close this door because I have a little wiener dog. What you. Are you laughing because I said wiener?

[B]

I'm really glad you finished this.

[A]

And it's out.

[B]

I'm sorry.

[A]

The first happen.

[B]

What are we doing here today?

[A]

You're telling the whole world. So you don't know this, but in this next room behind me have like a hundred hats. Okay. And I like to pick hats for, like the people that I work with. So I have a quail.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

On my corduroy hat. This is a hat by Pladra. I don't know if they've.

[B]

That's a cool hat.

[A]

No, they've got a. They got like a little. Can you see that? It's like a yeah. Can't really see it. It's a pine. Like a pine forest green interior. Yeah. So, yeah, let me do this quickly.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'll turn it inside out because then you can see the actual material.

[B]

So you're like all of us. Oh, I. That is super cool.

[A]

Yeah. So big shout out to. To Plaidra. I don't know if you've heard of them before. So they just make plaid clothing. And what they're known for is the inside of their collars and the inside of their cuffs. They put different scenes.

[B]

Very cool.

[A]

I don't know if they've got a quail and pheasant themed. They've got a quail hat. It's a beautiful hat. It's a corduroy hat.

[B]

It's a beautiful hat. Do they make women's clothing? That's always the difference.

[A]

Yes, they do.

[B]

Excellent. I will be checking them out after we get off of it.

[A]

Yeah. Pladra P L A D R A. Jeff Ladra is the owner. And I said, how'd you come up with Pladra? And he goes like, I used to wear plaid all the time. And because my last name was Ladra, they just said Pladra.

[B]

Basic exercise and rhyming. I love it.

[A]

Marilyn. Veta, I am so excited to have you on this podcast. I'm so excited. You were early, too. My kind of lady.

[B]

Always.

[A]

Yeah, my. My dad was. If you. You are late. If you are not five minutes early to a meeting.

[B]

Smart guy.

[A]

Marilyn, I know that there are not many women in positions that you hold in our community space, so number one, well done. Super proud of somebody like you in the space that you are, and you're like a little dynamo, man. I met you at Silencer Central and I was like, I don't know who this lady is. Hey, I'm Robbie. Oh, hey. I'm the new under CEO of Pheasants Forever and Quail Forever. It was like, whoa.

[B]

That was a fun night with a great, great partner.

[A]

Yeah. Great partner, Brandon. And what he does for. And what Silence Essential does for conservation is. It's pretty amazing. Yeah. Pretty amazing. I don't know anything about your history, Marilyn. I'll be honest. I haven't done any Google stalking. Normally I do, but I was like, nah, you know, I think, you know, we hit it off when I told you about the Aberdeen pheasant sandwich story, which we'll get into a little bit today, but how long have you been the CEO?

[B]

It'll be three years in February.

[A]

Three. And before that, were you in the organization. Did you come up through the organization?

[B]

I didn't. I was on the board for just about eight years.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I came into it through a hobby, quite honestly. So my career, most of my life was in the biopharmaceutical space and for the last 20 of it I was a lobbyist and I got to know.

[A]

Working for yourself or some or another company?

[B]

No, I was working for a pharmaceutical, a couple different pharmaceutical companies and but as my hobby I was a German short hair pointer dog training trialing enthusiast. My husband is a professional dog trainer and so that was my hobby since, well, since high school when I met my husband and we got our first short hair in.

[A]

Oh, so this wasn't something that your husband did and you're like, I don't know if I'm going to like this or not. It was both of your passions.

[B]

Yeah, we were pretty much hook, line and sinker. So there was a person on the PF board that was very involved in the dog organization that I'm involved in that we are both involved in. And she came to me and said, hey, I'd love to consider you for a board position on Pheasants Forever and Quail Forever's board because they were really trying to expand their audiences. And the dog organization that I was a volunteer with and still am, the North American Versatile Hunting Dog association is almost entirely volunteer based.

[A]

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[B]

And it has just absolutely blossomed in the community for particularly for women. Because that, as we know in my community, particularly in the upland bird community, a, you have to have a good dog to hunt anyway. But it is absolutely the addiction factor for most people in this community. And it is really what gets women involved.

[A]

Is the dog.

[B]

Is the dog okay? The dog gets them here. The birds keep them.

[A]

Gotcha.

[B]

And the experience keeps them. So I interviewed with the board, I had felt and I had been a member for 20 years before that, obviously very passionate about all the work that's done in the upland community. And felt it was my responsibility to be a member, as we should in any community that we're part of, whether you're a Duck Hunter and Ducks Unlimited or Turkey and Wild Turkey Federation, I believe very strongly in that. And so I interviewed at the board, fell in love with the team. I was on the board for seven and a half years, and the CEO announced his retirement. I had also left my career in pharmaceuticals. It just seemed like the right time. And I was on a bit of a hiatus, and a couple people came up to me and said, you know, you know the organization so well. Why don't you throw your name in the hat? And I very, very quietly, like, two people knew, my husband and myself. And it was a cruel process because it was 100% blinded to the nominating committee.

[A]

There were no way, no way, really.

[B]

Until the final 12. So nobody knew until the final 12. And then it was just the nominating committee until the final two. And I'll never forget when it was a virtual interview, because, of course, it was kind of in the end of the COVID rush, and people opened their browser, and there I was. And they're like, oh, she's on the other side this time. And it was just phenomenal. And I feel absolutely blessed that they had the faith in me. And I every day feel even luckier. And I know so much more about it now that I've worked with this team. And they're extraordinary. Just the best people in the whole world to work with. I love them. I really.

[A]

No, that's amazing. That's amazing. So growing up as a kid, hunted or just dogs. How did. How did that situation come about?

[B]

So my dad really wasn't much of a hunter. He. My. My dad hunted when. Out of necessity. So he was a cattle rancher. So we. He did not like venison anyway. He would. He would shoot it every now and then. My brothers were really big deer hunters. They were waterfowl hunters. We didn't have a lot of upland game around our farm. And because for waterfowling, you need to be quiet. And I'm a bit of a talker. My brothers took me a couple of times, and they were like, no way. You can. You can come when we come home. You can clean my birds, but you can't come with. So I didn't get to really go hunting until my husband when I was 18, and he was an avid outdoorsman. And. And that just. For me, it was like, wow, what I've been missing out for 18 years. So it. It really. Although I would say that this connection to private landowners, to ranchers is. Really takes me back to my roots. I think about how much. My mom and dad was a small farm. It was under a thousand acres, and they adored their property. And they. It was like a part of the family for them. And so this has been really a phenomenal kind of full circle moment for me.

[A]

No, it's all. It's. You mentioned your family and owning land and the love of the land. Somebody was having a conversation with me this morning, and I apologize for the rabbit hole that I'm about to swing us into, but it fits. This morning somebody was talking about. I'd love to get your thoughts on this sort of the. It's not. Misalignment is not the right term here, but I'll use it. Of the lack of appreciation of the private landowner and the amount of work and effort that private landowners are putting into wildlife conservation and habitat and the need to value wildlife out of that market. And I was thinking, like, how much money is spent just in the state of Mississippi for whitetail deer hunting, Food plots, all the things, right? You just multiply it and you ask the question, why? Because they love deer hunting.

[B]

They do. They're passionate about it. This country's commitment to the hunting heritage that exists and is deeply involved in our culture is rooted in that. Our public lands are incredible. They are. It is a natural treasure. I don't disagree with that.

[A]

But it's what makes America America right. For me, I came from another country that had no public land at all. Zero. And this country, that to me is like the most amazing thing.

[B]

And what I think is going to be even stronger in the future is creating that mosaic where you have public lands, you have private lands. And some of them will be open to the public and some won't. And that's why one of our priorities is not just establishing habitat, but creating access. We know that in this country and probably most countries, quite honestly, the number one impediment to hunting is access.

[A]

Agreed.

[B]

And if we need to find ways to incentivize and reward those private landowners to open their lands to others, we have to. We have to acknowledge that they go. There's a ton of work that's put into it. There's a lot of liability that's put into it. And so they. They deserve to be incentivized for it. And creating those voluntary programs, which I'm sure we're going to talk about later, is one of our most exciting projects that we've taken on in the last three years and one of, I think, the most exciting projects for us to. As we go forward. And one of the things that makes our volunteers so excited is about creating opportunities that are open to the public that also reward those private landowners because it is a ton of work. Think about just a prescribed fire, how much work has to go into that ahead of time. And then the liability that's taken on by, they deserve it.

[A]

And you find that you have landowners, because I'm referencing sort of an Australian I idea here. The idea behind a lack of access in Australia is because of the liability insurance that landowners have to carry. When somebody's on their property, quote, unquote free or hey, I'm allowing you access, and something happens, right? ATV turns over, somebody's paralyzed. In Australia, that landowner is liable for everything.

[B]

That would be a huge impediment. And that's what these voluntary incentive programs do, is remove that liability for them. At the same time, that gives them a financial incentive. I mean, they're not going to get rich off of it. But at the end of the day, perhaps it helps defray the cost of their conservation and all of the other things that they do a part of it. But when you think about Montana's block management program, those landowners are incentivized to open their lands, but they are not liable if you screw up and do something stupid there. And I can't imagine opening my land if I were them, if I didn't have that exemption from liability.

[A]

Yeah. Has there been some analysis done on the private land owner when it comes to that financial number, like that hurdle? What is that? Is it like, I don't know, like, I'm thinking about it from a step standpoint of say, PF builds this program and says to the private landowner, we're gonna. We'll. We'll give you a hundred bucks an acre times however many acres you have for three months of public access over the pheasant season versus a private individual who says, I'll lease your ground for 500 an acre. I don't know. Like, I'd love to figure out that. It's maybe like a philosophical ethos question people. You can't really study that. Right.

[B]

So I suppose you could. You'd have to really have some good controls on it. But I can tell you about our Public Access to Habitat program, which is funny because you wanted to talk about Aberdeen. And Aberdeen is also the home of the Aberdeen Pheasant Coalition, which was the in. Was the inspiration for path because Aberdeen business owners, they were tired of being county number two for the most pheasant hunters in the state of South Dakota.

[A]

And they said that was county number one.

[B]

I knew I should learn when I listened to that. My guess is probably close to the Mitchell area.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So the business owners got together, they pooled $100,000, so hotels, restaurants, the convention and visitors bureau, and they went out and incentivized landowners paid them an acre rate and said, would you open it up to pheasant hunting? And they were like, sure, why not? So they layered. Most oftentimes it was layered on top of CRP acres. Oh, so it was opportunity. Yeah. And you know, CRP rates, depending on the contract year, oftentimes can be pretty low. So it allowed them to keep it in crp maybe when they re enrolled. So that was super successful in Aberdeen. So we got together with South Dakota game, fish and parks and the South Dakota tourism department and said, what if the three of us tried to kick off a statewide program called path, Public access to habitat. And the first year, I think our goal was, I want to say it was like 10,000 acres. And it's only been open two and a half years, and we have almost 72,000 acres in it. Dang. And it's. And we have, every year we create a goal and we get twice as many applicants to want to be in it.

[A]

You don't have enough money.

[B]

Correct. So South Dakota tourism, game, Fish and parks, we raise money. And Onx hunt has been incredible, a partner on this. And so between that and then, our chapters raise money for it and our donors give money to it. And, you know, we just keep blowing the doors off of. Of the goals. And so then Nebraska said, hey, what about us? We'd like to do something similar. So Nebraska, there's 51,000 acres there. Oklahoma this year open 10,000 acres. And next year North Dakota is going to be. We're super excited about that one. There's about. There's a ton of investment going on there. So South Dakota, Michigan is going to start pretty soon. So, you know, we would love to be able to say we could do it in 48 states, you know, tomorrow, but we have to raise money around it. So we're trying to focus on states where a access is difficult and where we can raise dollars around it. But 133,000 acres in a little over two years at 25 bucks an acre, Most of them are around that. And we had one person sign up for a.

[A]

Is it an annual thing? Or they sign up for 3 year contracts or 5 year contracts, 5 year.

[B]

Contracts most of the time. And they have to be certified by our biologist team, which is fabulous. So they have to be good quality acres. You won't pull up and it's, you know, summer fallow field, which would not be helpful if you were driving from Georgia and wanted to go pheasant hunting. But we have these great stories where people come from Missouri or Mississippi and say, I've never gone pheasant hunting.

[A]

And I. ONX Connection has this PATH program in the ONX system.

[B]

Yeah. So there's a logo on there. And then they go in there, like find all these PATH projects and bam, they get their limit of South Dakota pheasants in a day. And that is, I think, the future. Because we can't afford to idle as much public land as people would like us to. And it's not always popular in some states to do that. And so this is a really great.

[A]

Way to buy idle public lands, Marilyn.

[B]

So to take, you know, a lot of people would say, well, why don't you just go out and buy more private land and make it idle, make it permanent. Well, a. That's really different. So in the state of Iowa, that might be 20,000 an acre instead of $25 an acre.

[A]

And then all the logistics of land acquisition, which people think it's such a simple process, but it is the hardest thing in the world.

[B]

And we, our goal is to not own it. We always are the intermediary. So, you know, and we do do it. We've done 232,000 of permanent protection acres since we started in 1983. But it is a smaller percent of our work because it is so expensive and so where it makes sense, where there are pockets in a county where you can really create a good swath of acreage in between a lot of mixed AG properties, that's a perfect, you know, perfect spot to create a permanent protection program. And then we partner with, whether it's Iowa DNR or South Dakota Game and Fish or Minnesota dnr, whoever that is, they will be the eventual owner. We don't want to be the landowner. We want this to be open to the public, and it should be owned by public agencies and entities. But oftentimes we're the intermediary. We might have a member or a volunteer as they age, say, we really want this to become a permanently protected land and they'll donate it to us. And then we work with agencies to make sure that it is protected forever. That is the forever part of our name. And we love that. But we also know that we can't solve that access problem with just permanent lands. We have to find ways to create access for people that are on. On private lands.

[A]

Yeah, I think I'm going to title this podcast Maryland's Path.

[B]

There you go.

[A]

You know, it's interesting. Have, have you. You've obviously collected all these acres now on path. Have you figured out are they are more path acres tied in with communities and townships than just randomly out in the middle? Because the reason I'm asking that question is this. I could see that if you had people in the community that were thinking differently and thinking, number one, maybe like, hey, this is like a community upliftment thing. This is good, this is something that we can celebrate. But secondly, and this is a little bit capitalistic, but hey, if we have more acres around our town, it means our hotels are fuller, it means our restaurants are fuller, it means they're buying stuff in our gas stations. I got a little shop that they want to buy stuff in.

[B]

It's a mix. So I think about there's a property in South Dakota. Our rancher came to us and said, I have 40,000 acres, a pasture CRP. I'd love to enroll it in Bath. And it was all high quality. And so that was a giant chunk in South Dakota. But then there's other pockets where like, obviously Aberdeen is a big area and we have some areas like that in Nebraska. So I would tell you it's a mix. Sometimes it is just organic and a rancher or a producer says, I want to open my lands to the, to public access. And then there's others like in Nebraska. And you're going to challenge me to think of the name of this crazy name of a lake that in Nebraska has, in the summer, it's just swamped with people. It's a giant lake and it has all kinds of opportunities. But as soon as, you know, this time of the year, there's nothing going on there. And that is almost where Nebraska. Almost all of the acres that they invested is around that area so that those business owners have a supply of people coming through, through at least January, February, as the pheasant hunt, quail hunt, sharp tail grouse hunt, and it's their first year. So it's a good test for us to see how much that adds to the community. But I can tell you in Patagonia, Arizona, the first time I went quail hunting there, I went to a coffee shop in, oh, I can't remember the name. There was other little coffee shop not far from there. And I walked in, and first thing I saw was a quail forever stick. And I hadn't started the job yet. And I said, tell me about that. And he said, oh, well, we work with the local chapter to raise dollars to try to incentivize people. And that the hotel owner in Patagonia at that Time said that 40% of their sales came in during merns hunting season.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And so for them, it's extraordinarily high. We have a program in Yuma that incentivizes people that want to come down and go dove hunting. Now, that's a little far off the spectrum for us. It's not one of the birds that we necessarily do a lot of work around, but they came to us and said, you have a model. Can we raise money around it, incentivize people to, you know, flood a little area after it's been harvested? And it's been. It's been a great opportunity for Yuma. So there are some communities. Our job now is to be able to prove that and be able to show more communities that it's valuable so that they can help us be fundraisers. Because we can't. We don't have that many people that are out in. In all these states that can be raising dollars. And this is a perfect opportunity for these rural communities that this is super important. You know, when you. When you pull into Lemon, South Dakota, in this time of the year, you know that's who they want is a bird hunter.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or you go into Ekalaka, Montana, and you pull in, there's this giant stone arch that says, welcome, hunters. Those communities are the ones that are really the targets.

[A]

So you have just. I told you this idea when we got together at Silence the Central. And I didn't know that you actually had the idea here in the lower 48, because we were thinking about it from a Canada perspective only. Right. And so I think when we get off this podcast, you and me need to figure out how we can either it won't be this year, because this year's already gone, but we need to find and decide on your Pheasant town of America 2026. And we go in and do what we do best. And to tell that story of that little town, and you hear the little bell ring as you open the gas station door, and Joe's behind the calendar talking about how important pheasant hunting is in this community. And it's. You capture the opening day, and it's really a celebration of that community because of what they've Done for pheasant habitat or quail habitat or whatever it is. Right. We decide whichever community wins. And it's almost like an incentive because then all of a sudden this community's being put on a pedestal by you, by us, by everyone. And all other communities across the west are going, I wonder if we can become Pheasant forever's town of 2026.

[B]

I love that idea. You know, and they are so the folks from the Calgary chapter were at our pheasant fest in Quail Classic last year and they saw our presentation on Path and they're trying to get the same thing generated in Alberta. So we hope that it makes it across our northern borderline too.

[A]

That's amazing. That's amazing. You know, it's funny and I don't think anybody pays attention to it because obviously pheasants are not a native bird. Okay. And like anything non native in Australia, New Zealand, it is like malaline, like, it's like get rid of it. It is terrible, eradicate. It's an invasive, it's a feral, it's a pest. And it's almost like, well one. Pheasants don't really have that much of an impact. Okay. It's not like a. I don't even know what to say, like an Arapara ram sheep that's feral in the feral.

[B]

Pig, something like that. Feral horses. Yeah, it's a little different and it almost.

[A]

And again, the reason why there's a Pheasants Forever is that it's almost like a catalyst for all of this biodiversity, all this habitat preservation, all of the stuff. And it came from an animal that doesn't live here. It comes from China. Really. At the end of the day, you're right.

[B]

Yeah. So it was first, the first successful attempt at bringing it to the states was in the Willamette Valley in Oregon in 1881. They brought in 60 birds and they took. And you know, they lasted and they brought em in because they were trying to create a huntable population of pheasants. They're beautiful birds. You know, they're. And they, you know, you know what they're like when they, when they get up, they cackle. I mean they're so much fun. They're so much fun. So they really swept across the country and they became, I mean, look at their South Dakota state bird. And they have become really inevitable economic boom to some of these rural communities. You know, pheasants are opportunistic birds. They are much more adaptable and can survive in smaller acreages. Than some of the other birds that we do work with. So our name is Pheasants Forever and Quail forever. But we also do a tremendous amount of work with sage grouse, sharp tailed grouse, prairie chickens. You know, prairie grouse for us is a huge part of our work as obviously our native quail species, bobwhite quail, and then the other five species of quail in North America as well. So we do a tremendous amount of work with those. They're really grassland birds and. But they all need a little bit different. You don't see a lot of them coexist. You will see some sharp tail and pheasants together, certainly hunger and partridge, but their habitat's a little bit different. But they are all grassland birds and they just have a little bit different need. But the good thing is that our wildlife biologists can really adjust to whatever it is that landowner wants to attract in their area or not.

[A]

Yeah, it's not like you're talking apples and oranges. You're talking about, you know, different species of apples essentially at the end of the day when it comes to habitat needs for these respective grassland birds. Right, Correct. I know. I just came back from Kevin's and the game fair down there and it was that Thomasville George is a heart. You know, tall timbres is down there. It's the heart of longleaf pine savannah work. And I met a Quail Forever guy who came up to me, Andy Edwards. And Andy was like, you remember me? And I was like, I don't.

[B]

Nope. You probably met a hundred thousand people.

[A]

Remind me. Well, Andy, this is what's funny. He came to, he reminded me that we had interacted in my past life. And my past life was I was helping the state of Mississippi from a science strategy perspective when it comes to the restoration dollars of bp. And one of the ideas that I had was, and it actually has just come to fruition. Mississippi State just got the land. We're going to do one of the largest state acquisitions that the state had ever done was like 110,000 acres of warehouse of property.

[B]

Phenomenal.

[A]

And we were going to convert it all to longleaf pine and do the whole, like it was just going to be this whole thing. And I said, okay, I need somebody from Quail Forever. And it happened to be Andy Edwards. And I connected with him. I think it got boiled down to like 18, 000 acres that they, they purchased, but still connected with Andy down there. And it was just, again, it's just, it reminded, it reminds you of again, the private land owner. You know, longleaf pine is just a different system, but it requires so much management, so much investment, so much financial input. And they, all these guys down there luckily have the financial resources to do it because they just love to hear a Bob White quail chirp in the morning and ride on a horse behind some dogs to kill two.

[B]

Yeah, it, it is probably the sense of tradition, I think, in Bob White country is stronger than almost anything. That, that's the pull of that bonding experience of it's the whole thing. It is like you described it, whether they're on a horse or they're on a buggy, it is the entire experience. And to hear the whistle of a bobwhite is. It's just incredible. And the investments that they make is amazing. I mean, Tall Timbers is an absolutely extraordinary expert in the space of how to care for those lands. And they've helped our team a lot. They've allowed our team to come out to some of their training courses over the years or even hold some of our own at their properties. They're an incredible partner. They've worked with us really well as we were trying to create some regulatory processes in the last few years with EPS to allow for prescribed fire. Because when you talk about what's done down there, I mean prescribed fire, you know, there's so much rainfall down there that there's so much vegetation. There's no way that you can chop it all down, there's no way you can herbicide it. All that fire is, is really probably the, the best way to control a lot of that invasive species. And it's. So they've been really great partners too.

[A]

Yeah, it's, you know, we've been circling around and it's, it's this idea, I think pheasants and quail more than anything, or maybe not more than anything, but it just embodies the sort of heritage and tradition of hunting and the people that just love it. Right. And for the. Not to, not to devalue a pheasant or a quail in comparison to an elk. But, you know, the value of a pheasant and a quail is small in comparison to the financial input that's going on to protect that, that, that, that small bird. And it's just, again, it just speaks to this idea that, you know, again, I, I live in a world of rhetoric. In the world of protecting hunting, people are like, oh, you guys are just a bunch of killers. Right? That's all you're interested in. But what's the limit on, like, what's your pheasant limit for a male pheasant on wild pheasants?

[B]

It depends on the states. Most of them in The Midwest are two or three. Like Minnesota, two a day. Minnesota is two until December 1st, and then it goes to three. South Dakota's is three, North Dakota's is, you know, I think three. You know, I think back in the 80s they were. It was higher, but it. In some places, it can take you all day to find that. And you know what? It. Even if it does, that's. That's okay. It is the experience. The one thing about bird hunting, I think, is it's so much more approachable than big game hunting. And I think it oftentimes leads to other hunting interests. But it is. It is more of a. It's an easier way to get into the. What their interests are in hunting, to come in through upland hunting than it is in a lot of others. Particularly if you have a friend with a dog, you don't have to have your own, you know, and that makes it a little easier, too.

[A]

Yeah, I have a very close friend. You might have interacted. Have you interact. Have you heard of Rebecca Jones?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

She's a very good friend of mine in Texas. And you're describing her to the T when you started talking about dogs and how that sort of brought you in. I think she fell in love with the idea of having dogs. And she's just fallen head over heels for upland bird hunting. Yeah. Loves it. Like, I'm, as I said, I'm flying to New Mexico on Thursday. And she's like, oh, you're gonna be like three hours from me. Come and hunt. And I was like, rebecca, I've got like 24 hours on the ground in New Mexico for a business meeting. I can't.

[B]

You'd need a driver so you can sleep.

[A]

That's right. Exactly. So if we, if you, like, put a dartboard in front of you in Maryland, you've already said 133,000 acres have been enrolled in PATH. That is your focus. One of the big focuses for. For PF. What's the number? Like, if you're. You're throwing, like. Have you had these conversations?

[B]

Well, you know, kind of new into it. I'd say, boy, if I could, I would love to double that in the next two years. It took us two years to get there. I know that that's. It's going to be a little harder to get the next 133, but.

[A]

Why do you say that? Just because the low hanging fruit is gone?

[B]

Yeah, I think so. And we don't, you know, we have some states that are coming in like a thousand acres here, maybe 10,000 acres there. But I do think that once you can show the benefit to some of those communities, that's where we're going to make a big difference. And why not shoot big. In my mind, let's double it in the next two years and, and just keep doubling it.

[A]

No, you double it. You add that to your already permanent program. That's over half a million acres that are now, you know, somewhat permanent in public access.

[B]

And the other. So the big part of our work is, quite honestly is, you know, we do over 2 million acres a year of working with landowners on their private lands. And most of those are not open to the public. But if you can create a mosaic, a landscape that has permanent protection, that it has access protection, but it has these egg producers in the middle of that, that they're still nesting grounds, they're thermal grounds, they might even be their own family's hunting grounds, but they are producing birds. And that we have to understand that when there's CRP acres or equip acres, all of the other programs that our wildlife biologists are working with landowners, you know, there's. We work with about 38,000 landowners a year to tackle over 2 million acres a year of their private land and their conservation dreams on their own properties that still contributes.

[A]

And you don't charge for that or do you?

[B]

That is because we fulfill grants usually with state and federal agencies. It is billed back to those agencies and those programs.

[A]

Okay, okay.

[B]

So most the landowners don't have a cost for that. It's absorbed by, either by nrcs or the state Game and Fish or DNR department because they see the inherent value in it. And it's not just producing game, it's also filtering water quality, a bunch of ecosystem services. Oh my God, it's amazing. It's, you know, those kinds of riparian zone work that are, filter all the stuff that comes off our fields before it gets into streams is phenomenal and then it creates phenomenal habitat, particularly for pheasants.

[A]

Yeah. What's the outlook looking like for crp, equip, wrp? Are we in this current administration, Are we looking at a bright future? Are we looking at a troubled future?

[B]

So the funding bill that was passed by the Senate yesterday does include crp. So we were excited about that. It's a bridge. It's a one year. So USDA agriculture is funded through September of 2026, if the House signs off on it. We're excited to see that originally CRP was not included in the original budget. So we're excited to see that back.

[A]

Is the budget about the same as.

[B]

It'S about the same? Yes, it is. And the Senate Majority Leader, John Thune, is obviously from South Dakota, a big proponent of CRP and has done a lot of work in the policy space on making sure that crp, you know, CRP started out with giant swaths of acres that were idled and in some areas that was challenging. And what we're finding is, you know, that isn't necessary. You don't have to do that. You can do smaller acreages that are really the worst acres on a farmer's land. So instead of them, maybe, maybe they wouldn't have to tile a slough, they could put it in habitat. And that allows them to just farm.

[A]

Around those and the edges that they're losing money on. Right. The ones that don't make the bill.

[B]

So we're pretty excited about the administration's Make America Beautiful Again executive order focuses on really a lot of the same priorities we have. It focuses on access restoring America's populations for wildlife and fisheries. It also has an incentive based access program. And what I really love is that it aligns perfectly well with regenerative ag practices. And we have several of our employees that are focused in precision ag. And not to mention, so when you have a precision ag specialist working with a wildlife biologist that's working on conservation, they sit down and plot out. I mean, it's gotten so technical, but it's wonderful because it's efficient and it helps them identify where should they put their conservation and also where is it a good investment for taxpayers that is a perfect use of taxpayer dollars to put incentivize a landowner to farm the best and conserve the rest, as we like to say. And that strikes, I think, a better balance for a lot of folks. And it is also really doing the right thing with the resources.

[A]

No, I like that. Farm the best, conserve the rest. What can people do to people listening to you? They've never heard of you, Marilyn. Or they're like, oh, pheasants forever. This is the first time, not the first time, first time I've heard about it, but maybe I'm more intrigued. Like where can people find more information?

[B]

Boy, pheasants forever.org is certainly where they can join. Follow our social media channels. We're really active on Facebook and Instagram, even on LinkedIn a little bit, you know, and quailforever.org definitely follow those channels and get involved with the local chapter. If they go on our websites, we have 790 chapters across the country and.

[A]

790.

[B]

Yeah. Well, we have 165,000 members and about a half a million supporters and partners. So they can get involved. And the best way to get involved in conservation is, yes, you should be a member of all of the organizations, whether it's the Elk foundation, it's, you know, I encourage birdwatchers like, you should buy your state's pheasant stamp. You should buy a federal waterfall stamp. Because those investments are investments not just in ducks and infeasins, they are investments in all species. So people should be involved in. I mean, I probably like your house. I get a deluge every month of magazines from all of the organizations I'm part of. But I feel like it's our job and our duty to do that. So I'd say that's the first point of entry, is become a member. But get involved in a chapter and you'll learn a ton. You'll get to get involved with planning habitat and caring for habitat, working on some. A lot of times we're volunteers for state properties that states don't have enough time and enough resources to take care of a lot of their properties. So they do a lot of that volunteer work. And then I think about Nobles County, Minnesota. You know, we have a chapter there that it's some of just the strongest volunteers in the country, and they have protected over 50 pieces of property for permanent protection. Because that chapter, they just wake up every day and says, we're going to raise money and we're going to find a piece of property that we can save. And so it really kind of depends on the chapter and the geography you're in. But those chapters are just the lifeblood of the organization. They inspire us that are part of the organization to just stay invested in the work.

[A]

Amazing. Amazing. Well, check it out. Pheasants forever.org or quailforever.org whatever tickles your fancy in terms of whichever bird fits more with your Persona. By the way, fabulous shirt. I didn't mention that in the beginning, Kevin. By the way, I was about to say it has. It's. I feel like it has to be.

[B]

A. Kevin, I have a quail one.

[A]

Too, but need to tell them I need a pheasant and quail one together because gotta mix both together.

[B]

They don't have one of those. They might have to invest in that design.

[A]

Yeah. Maybe. You know, you probably have enough influence down there, Marilyn, that you can say, hey, a one off, you know?

[B]

Yeah, maybe so.

[A]

Yeah. Marilyn, thank you so much. It was such a pleasure meeting you at Silencer Central. And thank you so much for coming on this podcast. If there's anything we can do to help you, you know where to find me.

[B]

All right, thank you, Robbie.

[A]

Well, that's it for today. I appreciate you listening. As always, leave a review, share it with your friends, and most importantly, do what's right to convey the truth around hunting.