The Origins Foundation Podcast – Episode 623

Leon Kachelhoffer || Unpacking The NG13 Elephant Issues

Date: February 5, 2026
Host: The Origins Foundation (A, often called "Robbie")
Guest: Leon Kachelhoffer (B)

Episode Overview

This episode centers on an in-depth discussion with Leon Kachelhoffer, operator of NG13—Botswana’s most controversial elephant hunting block. The conversation serves two main purposes:

1. To explore the conservation and community benefits (and controversies) around hunting in this remote area, especially in the face of ongoing anti-hunting rhetoric and calls for a ban.
2. To untangle the complex timeline of community conflict, legal disputes, and operator changes that have shaped NG13 since 2024, culminating in recent court cases and the future outlook.

The episode aims to set the record straight, giving Leon space to elaborate on NG13’s story, conservation realities, and operating challenges, while responding to high-profile criticism from the media and NGOs.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Background & Importance of NG13 (00:00–05:41)

• NG13 Overview: Remote, harsh, not viable for photographic tourism. Central to pro/anti-hunting debates in Botswana.
• Why Hunting Matters:
  • “It's not only important, I think it's vital. I think it's just in time.” – Leon (01:48)
  • Hunting provides a conservation presence, economic opportunity, and helps prevent poaching in areas unsuitable for classic tourism.
• Media & Controversy: Article "When Political Power Enters the Hunting Fields" set the stage for discussion around corruption, rivalry, and community turmoil.

2. Botswana Context & Lifting the Hunting Moratorium (05:41–10:04)

• National Decision-making:
  • Moratorium on hunting lifted through “kotla by kotla,” village-level democratic dialogue.
  • Host clarifies: Kotla is the village meeting place and democratic decision forum.
• Enduring Rhetoric: Despite broad consultation and democratic process, anti-hunting campaigns persist and generate significant NGO fundraising.

3. NG13 Before and After the Ban (11:07–14:40)

• Timeline:
  • 2003: Chekhu Trust (community trust) established, but hunting quota only awarded in 2021.
  • 2014–2019: National hunting ban; NG13 lay unused—no ecotourism, only one cattle post, which left due to cross-border cattle rustling.
• Security Issues:
  • Frequent cattle theft by groups from Angola and Zambia.
  • (13:02) “The old man there lost 87, 87 head of cattle in maybe a 10 month [period].”
  • Calls for infrastructure to curb cross-border rustling.

4. Why There’s No Photographic Tourism (15:41–19:49)

• Landscape & Seasonality:
  • NG13 is “marginal”—no permanent water; wildlife is transient.
  • Ecotourism unviable: animal encounters are extremely rare (one every 45–60 minutes vs. industry target of every 6 minutes).
  • “If they had five years of opportunity to tender on the place, nobody went in there... decades prior to that and nobody has shown.” – Robbie (17:31)
• No Livestock Potential:
  • NG13’s environment and water scarcity also make it unsuitable for sustained livestock farming.

5. Poaching, Presence, and Hunting as Conservation (19:49–25:07)

• Poaching Trends:
  • Elephants Without Borders reporting rising elephant carcass counts in northern concessions, including NG13.
  • Leon: “Where poaching occurs is where you don’t have presence.” (21:01)
  • BDF (Botswana Defense Force) camps are too few and ineffectively patrol ~200 km of near-unmanned international border (22:13–22:51).
• Hunting Operator as Deterrent:
  • Road building, staff presence, and regular activity reduce poacher access and benefit wildlife monitoring.

6. The Scale of Hunting and Elephant Populations (24:04–35:17)

• Quota Scale & Selectivity:
  • Since 2021, only 15 elephants hunted in NG13—out of an estimated 30,000 in the corridor (24:47).
  • Annual quota: 5–10 elephants on ~280,000 hectares (over 600,000 acres).
  • “It’s not like we’re running around 365 days a year and we’re shooting 50 elephant.” – Leon (25:45)
• Meat Recovery & Community Benefit:
  • “We recover the entire elephant carcass…put the whole thing on a specialized trailer and get it to the village as soon as possible.” (25:45)
• Hunting as Presence vs. Poaching:
  • Discussed as a “lesser of two evils” compared to unchecked poaching.

7. Debate on Trophy vs. Management Hunts (31:12–35:17)

• Proposal for ‘Management Bulls’:
  • Suggestion to diversify hunting to include non-trophy “management” elephants to address both social and scientific concerns.
  • Proposal: 50/50 split between exportable trophies and management animals, with adjusted license fees.
  • Leon: “What we do is controlled hunting…It was never envisaged as a population management tool. It was a socioeconomic tool.” (34:21)

8. Community Trusts & Persistent Challenges (35:17–40:10)

• Structure:
  • NG13 revenue flows through the Chekhu Trust, covering ~2,000 people in mostly two villages.
• Common Issues:
  • Newly formed Trusts, lack of experience, temptation around sudden cash influx.
  • “It’s par for the course… community members are now starting to understand what it’s all about.” (37:39)
  • Legacy of corruption and lack of accountability (e.g., chairpersons running off with funds).

9. The Legal Saga: Operator Dispute & Community Struggles (40:10–58:09)

• Timeline:
  • 2018–2022: Leon builds relationship and invests in Chekhu Trust.
  • 2024: Trust board disputes payments, attempts to double trophy fees, bypass community decision (“kotla”), leading to legal battles.
  • Court Milestones:
    • Leon forced out, but agreement not legally terminated.
    • Aug 15, 2025: Leon wins Court of Appeal—agreement recognized, hunting interdicted pending arbitration on trophy fee pricing.
    • Sept 2025: After multiple attempts, entire Trust board replaced by court order with a new board after sustained community effort (47:16–48:57).
• Rival Operator Saga:
  • Allegations of improper, backdoor deal with South African operator Darvi Grunewald. Court sets aside their contract.
  • As of January 2026, only Leon’s agreement with Chekhu Trust is recognized, pending arbitration on price (50:56–53:47).

Key Quotes: Dispute Overview

• Leon: “We got into a dispute with... an unconstitutional trust of where community funds actually go.” (40:26)
• “You will not get a hunting license... unless you have paid according to your agreement with the trust.” (41:08)
• “The community... has got three legal options. They can either do a direct appointment, they can do a tender or they can do an auction.” (54:46)

10. Financial Realities & Response to Media Critique (62:30–67:01)

• Africa Geographic article cited misleading revenue/expenditure figures.
• Leon breaks down real costs:
  • VAT, agent commissions, setup/infrastructure, operating/maintenance costs.
  • NG13 is “probably the most expensive concession to operate by 20% just because of where it is.”
• “All of these things… I just wish these kind of things were more balanced and they're not because these guys are against hunting again.” (65:44)
• Calls for a future episode to line up detailed financials for full transparency.

11. Path Forward: Arbitration, Trust Reform, Ongoing Watchpoints (53:05–69:02)

• Arbitration Outcomes Pending:
  • Leon's operator role in NG13 depends on the pending arbitration to set fair trophy fees.
  • Community may re-tender if fees are too high for Leon, with explicit compensation for investments if he leaves.
• Trust Teething and Government Intervention:
  • New CBNR Act will increase oversight and accountability for community funds (60:16).
• Big Picture:
  • Hunting in marginal, unused areas like NG13 provides the only feasible conservation-based land use and significant community benefit—when done transparently and accountably.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the reality of NG13’s remoteness:

  • “I’ve been there. Took me two days to get there. It’s desolate, it's magnificent. You will understand that there is no interest from a photographic perspective to go in there.” – Robbie (00:00)

• On community benefit from hunting:

  • “The meat gets delivered to the community... we recover the entire elephant carcass...and get it to the village as soon as possible.” – Leon (25:07)

• On legal turmoil:

  • “There have been so many [cases]... [the Trust board] tried to terminate our agreement, which is against the laws of Botswana… what ensued is our agreement wasn’t terminated...” – Leon (44:10)

• On presence and poaching:

  • “Where poaching occurs is where you don’t have presence.” – Leon (21:01)
  • “Hunting as presence vs. poaching… a ‘lesser of two evils’ compared to unchecked poaching.” — Discussion thread (28:05)

• On media criticism:

  • “I just wish these kind of things were more balanced... they’re not because these guys are against hunting again.” – Leon (65:44)

Timeline of Key Segments (Timestamps)

• 00:00–05:41: Setting up the issues: NG13, hunting controversy, episode goals
• 09:18–11:07: National consultation and lifting of the hunting ban; why anti-hunting pressure continues
• 11:07–14:40: NG13 pre-hunting, no ecotourism or livestock potential, cattle rustling crisis
• 15:41–19:49: Why eco-tourism doesn’t work here, land use realities explained
• 19:49–25:07: Poaching problem, the value of hunting operator presence, BDF border issues
• 24:39–35:17: Scale of hunting, quotas, community benefit, and the myth of hunting impacting elephant populations
• 35:17–40:10: Community trust formation, typical development/teething issues
• 40:10–58:09: Deep dive: the legal standoff, financial challenges, community representation, and rival operator drama
• 62:30–67:01: Detailed breakdown of actual financials, misrepresentations in media, operational challenges in remote concessions
• 53:05–69:02: Path forward, arbitration, future transparency, and tough realities of conservation/hunting in Botswana

Tone and Style

The tone is frank, sometimes defensive, but always deeply invested in factual accuracy, transparency, and a passion for fair conservation outcomes. Robbie acts as a candid but balanced moderator, while Leon is forthright and, at times, exasperated by persistent misinformation and logistical hurdles.

Final Summary

This episode provides a detailed, no-nonsense account of the practical, economic, and ethical challenges facing hunting operations in marginal areas like Botswana’s NG13. It demystifies the persistent controversies, lays bare the complex legal and community issues, and calls for a more honest reckoning with what conservation and community benefit genuinely require in such unglamorous, high-stakes landscapes. The episode calls for nuance, context, and transparency, and promises continued public disclosure as the NG13 saga unfolds.