The Origins Foundation Podcast
Episode 626 - Carel Verhoef || Fighting Elephants With Drones
Date: March 3, 2026
Host: Robbie (The Origins Foundation)
Guest: Carel Verhoef, photographic tourism operator and conservation innovator, Serengeti, Tanzania
Episode Overview
This engaging episode explores the innovative use of thermal drones in resolving human-elephant conflict in Tanzania. Host Robbie speaks with Carel Verhoef, who has developed and deployed nighttime drone operations to protect both elephants and agricultural communities. The discussion delves into the challenges of conservation, the pragmatic intersections of hunting, ecotourism, and community needs, and the critical role that connectivity and active management play in Africa’s protected landscapes. The episode is filled with practical wisdom, on-the-ground anecdotes, and an unvarnished look at the realities of African wildlife stewardship.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Carel Verhoef’s Background and Conservation Trajectory
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Raised in Kruger National Park, South Africa, in a family deeply entrenched in conservation.
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Early exposure to the realities of wildlife management, including elephant and buffalo population control.
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Moved to Tanzania, starting out in the photographic tourism sector but always maintaining a research and conservation foundation.
- “The base has always been research and, and knowledge and what's going on.” (16:44)
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Early experiences in remote, poacher-dominated Serengeti lands shaped his passion for stabilizing and generating value in wild areas.
2. The Value of Protected Areas and Why Value Creation Matters
- Areas need to generate value to attract resources for protection—whether through tourism, hunting, or other sustainable use.
- Not all land is suitable for mainstream tourism; hunting and buffer zone protection are critical for less accessible or desirable areas.
- “You can't just duplicate things and assume that if they work here that they will work everywhere.” (24:19)
3. Hunting, Ecotourism, and Habitat Protection
- Pragmatic discussion on why multiple conservation tools—including hunting—are essential.
- Buffer zones protected by hunting often later become viable for tourism, ultimately benefiting all forms of conservation.
- "The work I'm doing now used to be done by hunting and hunters... Now I have to do it without hunting, which is a lot harder.” (79:43)
4. Human-Elephant Conflict: The Need for Innovation
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Conflict intensity has increased as both people and elephants compete for diminishing resources (notably water, especially during dry seasons).
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Real-life consequences: a Maasai herdsman recently injured in an elephant encounter when herding cattle after dark.
- "Luckily he survived, was not too much damage...but this is competition for water... primary driver is water for, for elephants and cattle.” (05:42)
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Traditional conflict measures (e.g., chili fences, guarding) often fail due to elephants’ intelligence and persistence.
5. The Genesis and Impact of Drone-Based Elephant Management
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Inspiration sparked by a drone incident where elephants reacted strongly—idea simmered until thermal technology became affordable.
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Launch of a true pilot project in Umkumazi National Park, where drones equipped with thermal imaging map and move elephant herds by night, safeguarding crops and communities.
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“It worked...90% of deaths are probably killed done by breeding herds and breeding herd management with drones... it’s not even hard.” (42:12)
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Data shows dramatic reductions in both crop losses and human injury/fatalities in areas under active drone management.
Technical and Logistical Details
- Each drone team manages roughly 25-50 km of corridor, moving with mobile camps equipped for night operations.
- Scaling up: now operating 8-10 drones across more than 500 km of Tanzanian corridors and buffer zones.
- Models refined for government partnership, with rangers trained to operate drones, increasing buy-in and community trust.
- "Rangers that are now in our Kazia Tembo projects are heroes in the community... it just makes such a massive difference if you have the right model." (59:31)
6. Corridor and Connectivity Conservation
- Elephant migration and genetic flow depend upon protected, connected corridors—often only viable because of hunting-managed areas.
- Drones now allow for strategic nocturnal movements, reducing conflict and facilitating elephant passage through human-dominated landscapes.
- "For the first time... we've managed... to move big herds of hundred elephants over a 10 day period...120km. From substantial safe zone to substantial safe zone." (53:13)
7. Behavioral Insights from Drone Monitoring
- Monitoring thermal signatures: unique patterns (e.g., cold ears, footprints visible on thermal camera) provide scientific and practical movement data.
- Elephants can be guided using sound, scent, and novel stimuli—some even ‘understand’ shouted Swahili commands over drone speakers (71:07).
8. Scaling and Sustainability: Funding, Partnerships, and Community Buy-In
- Conservation models are self-financed via tourism business and commercial sector support; drone units are in high demand and short supply.
- Appeals for support highlight a pragmatic “wedding registry” approach—every contribution (drones, equipment, logistics) helps.
- "It's okay. You know, we still need the cutting board...the quicker we get the drones, the more we can kind of COVID the whole area.” (70:17)
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
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On Conservation Pragmatism:
"The underlying purpose of what we have done is always to stabilize areas and always to bring in a certain amount of tourism. There's value. And, and when we talk about value...it doesn't just fall out of the sky." (20:10) -
On the Role of Hunting:
"So for me, there's very much...We have to say thank you for hunters sitting in in areas that no one else ever wanted to go. You know, we should be grateful for. For hunters protecting buffer zones and, and doing. The work I'm doing now used to be done by by hunting and hunters." (80:00) -
On Human-Elephant Conflict Reality:
“The world of elephant, human, elephant conflict is unfortunately very unforgiving because your success rate is measured by whether people can harvest or not.” (44:26) -
On Elephant Corridors and Subspecies Risk:
"If we don't have that connectivity, we will slowly develop an East African elephant subspecies and a southern African elephant subspecies, which I'm sure everyone would agree we don't want to create." (50:09) -
On the Immense Scale of the Challenge:
“If you look at the conflict map of Tanzania, it’s every block, you know, of the country has human-elephant conflict. And we are working in three. Three dots, you know?” (78:21) -
On Technology and Local Talent:
“We have incredibly skilled pilots, you know, that far better than, than myself or, or pro pilots that have come from the outside... Tanzanians... it's always all in." (57:32)
Important Timestamps
- [05:42] – Story of Maasai herder’s elephant encounter highlights stakes of conflict
- [16:44] – Carel’s background; transition into research and guiding in Tanzania
- [20:10] – The necessity of value creation for conservation success
- [33:58] – Birth of the drone elephant project: pilot in war-zone conditions
- [42:12] – First breakthrough: drone herding works, especially with breeding herds
- [45:51] – Technical context; scaling operations to 500+ km of conflict zones
- [53:13] – Facilitating large-scale elephant movements safely with drones
- [70:17] – Funding challenges and the ‘wedding registry’ approach
- [79:43] – Reflection: innovations replacing what hunting once did
- [80:00] – Deep gratitude and respect for hunters as conservation allies
- [84:22] – The mathematical impossibility of replacing hunting with mass tourism
How to Help
Carel’s organization is constantly seeking support: drones, equipment, funding, or even small operational items. Individuals or donors providing crucial gear are kept up to date with regular field reports and footage of their contributions at work.
- “Really, anything helps right now. But we have a whole list of stuff… it doesn’t matter if you can only do the cutting board. You know, it’s okay. You know, we still need the cutting board.” (70:17)
Closing Reflections
The podcast closes with gratitude for Carel’s groundbreaking work and an open invitation for future updates. The conversation ends with a call to recognize the pragmatic, sometimes uncomfortable realities of conservation, the interconnected role of various stakeholders, and an insistence on ground-truth storytelling to build more effective, nuanced conservation narratives.