Episode 645 - Michael Butler || Wildlife Conservation Champion of Tennessee

Summary

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The Origins Foundation Podcast

Episode 645 – Michael Butler: Wildlife Conservation Champion of Tennessee

Date: May 19, 2026
Host: Robbie (The Origins Foundation)
Guest: Michael Butler, Co-Executive Director, Tennessee Wildlife Federation (TWF)

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Episode Overview

This episode provides an in-depth look into the evolution, mission, and current activities of the Tennessee Wildlife Federation under Michael Butler's 30-year leadership. The host, Robbie, engages Michael in a candid and comprehensive discussion about the Federation’s history, its funding and governance models, the relationship with the National Wildlife Federation, and flagship community programs like Hunters for the Hungry. The episode is rich with personal stories, historical context, and thoughtful commentary on the challenges and importance of leading conservation in Tennessee and beyond.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Michael Butler’s Beginnings and Role at TWF

• Michael Butler’s Background:

  • Joined TWF after grad school at Montana State, originally called Tennessee Conservation League
  • Over 30 years of service, with 22+ years in executive leadership
  • Butler emphasizes teamwork: “I haven’t done it in any stretch by myself.” (13:37)

• Organizational Growth:

  • Began with a staff of four; dwindled to just Michael and a half-time assistant in 2002
  • Now grown to 35+ employees, with plans to hire more (12:30)
  • Strategic rebranding in 2004 to focus on “wildlife” and bring clarity to mission (04:37)

2. Tennessee’s Unique Conservation History

• Founding Roots:

  • TWF founded in response to national calls for wildlife conservation (06:08–07:17)
  • Heavy influence from historic national events and alliances inspired by Roosevelt and 'Ding' Darling

• Post-WWII Rebirth:

  • After WWII, conservation leadership rebirthed in Tennessee (09:32)
  • Political savvy led to the creation of a professional, non-partisan wildlife agency (10:33)

3. Governance & Relationship with National Wildlife Federation (NWF)

• Affiliation Structure Explained:

  • TWF is an independent, chartered nonprofit, renewing affiliation annually with NWF (11:02)
  • State affiliates like TWF are “shareholders” in the NWF, influencing governance, board elections, and policy via resolutions (22:38–24:20)

• Diversity Within Federation:

  • Affiliates vary in mission—some are hunter-focused (like Tennessee), others focus on broader conservation or specialty areas (30:17–31:35)
  • Disagreements are handled like family differences: “That’s part of being in a family at Thanksgiving…” (33:24)

• Collective Impact:

  • When united, the federation wields significant influence at both the state and federal level, especially on issues like dedicated conservation funding (34:29–34:45)

4. Funding Wildlife Conservation: Facts and Myths

• State Funding Model:

  • Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency (TWRA) is not funded by the TN legislature—all operational funds come from license sales and federal excise taxes (15:41, 18:09)
  • “Right now sportsmen in Tennessee are funding about 81 to 82% of the wildlife agency's entire budget through license sales and Pittman-Robertson…as a result…no direct appropriations of general tax funds to the agency.” – Michael Butler (17:54)

• Independence and Autonomy:

  • State agencies like TWRA are standalone—not part of a larger Department of Natural Resources, which keeps focus sharp and prevents bureaucratic dilution (16:45)

• Contrast with Other States:

  • Some states, like Missouri and Arkansas, use sales tax or fuel tax to fund agencies; but across the Southeast, Tennessee’s user-pay model is common (19:30–20:14)

• Risks of Narrow Funding:

  • Butler warns that relying solely on sportsmen’s dollars could risk losing leadership to other interests: “If we don’t stand up and say we’re for all wildlife…we abdicate that leadership throne.” (20:14–21:54)

5. TWF’s Leadership Model & Strategic Growth

• Dual Leadership Approach:

  • Michael Butler shares the co-executive model with Kendall McCarter, who handles fundraising/communications, while Butler leads policy/programs.
  • “One plus one…equals about six.” (13:59)
  • Described as a “secret weapon” for organizational effectiveness (14:10–14:14)

• Building Conservation Communities:

  • TWF is spearheading initiatives like the Outdoor Business Roundtable and the Institute for Conservation to connect industry, business, and conservation interests (24:45–27:46)

6. Community-Focused Programs

Hunters for the Hungry

• Overview:

  • Provides venison from hunters to food banks and soup kitchens across Tennessee
  • In 2025: over 163,000 lbs of venison donated, creating ~650,000 servings—a program record (41:18–42:54)

• Operation:

  • Hunters drop deer at approved processors at no cost; processors are paid a discounted rate by TWF
  • Strategic partnerships with large food banks streamline distribution—even into rural and high-need areas (43:18–47:59)

• Impact:

  • Since 1998: over 10 million pounds (or servings) delivered to those in need (47:59)
  • Program growth requires dependable funding and adaptability—e.g., managing processor shortages during the pandemic (45:43)

• How to Participate:

  • Hunters: Use TWF’s website to find participating processors easily (43:00)
  • Supporters: Donations accepted online for both recurring and one-time gifts (49:55)

Other Programs Mentioned

• Youth Clay Shooting Sports
• Hunting and Fishing Academy: Directly introducing thousands to the outdoors each year with the focus on supporting participants until they self-identify as hunters or anglers (37:16)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “April 1st marked my 30th year here…they call me the old man now.” – Michael Butler (03:16)
• “Conservation has become kind of this ubiquitous word that has…thousands of different meanings to different people.” – Michael Butler (04:04)
• “If you have representatives in 50 states saying this is something that's good for the country, then the probability of that happening is much higher at the federal level.” – Michael Butler (34:45)
• “A lot of people talk about this and philosophize about this, but it’s very true that there is something deeply genetic about our connection to the outdoors…there is something deeply human in how hunting changes lives.” – Michael Butler (37:16)
• “That’s part of being in a family at Thanksgiving…looking for those things of common agreement so our collective impact is big.” – Michael Butler (33:24)

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Important Timestamps

• Early career & TWF background: 03:16–05:36
• Founding history and rebranding: 05:36–07:26
• Role and structure of National Wildlife Federation: 22:38–24:20
• Funding model for Tennessee conservation agencies: 15:41–18:09
• Hunters for the Hungry (impact, operations): 41:18–49:47
• Closing, getting involved, and final reflections: 49:55–50:35

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Tone & Speaker Style

• Michael Butler: Warm, knowledgeable, occasionally self-deprecating (“they call me the old man”), pragmatic, consistently highlights collective effort.
• Robbie: Curious, sometimes playful, direct, brings a global perspective, asks “sticky questions,” and amplifies the human side of conservation.

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How to Get Involved

• Donate/Volunteer with TWF:
  • Website: tnwf.org
  • Hunters for the Hungry: Easy-to-use online map and donation system

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For listeners new to Tennessee wildlife conservation or seeking actionable inspiration, this episode is a goldmine of historical lessons, practical models, and heartfelt calls for unity and leadership in protecting both wild places and communities.

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Transcript

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[Robbie]

Michael Butler is the co executive director of the Tennessee Wildlife Federation. I say co because he's essentially figured out how to clone himself. Him and his partner in crime do a yeoman's job when it comes to wildlife conservation issues in the state of Tennessee. Tennessee Wildlife Federation has been under his guidance and these co directors guidance since 2003 where they went from one individual to a now a staff of almost 38 individuals. I wanted to have Michael on. He's just a wealth of knowledge when it comes to conservation. There may be some questions in the, in the conservation sphere around the Wildlife Federation, who they are, their affiliate programs and also what is going on in the state of Tennessee. So this is essentially a behind the curtains look at the wildlife Federation, Tennessee Wildlife Federation and having a really good solid conversation with Michael Butler. If you've never heard of Michael Butler, you, you need to know about who he is because he is an absolute legend. Enjoy. So five years ago there was a reason why I started this movement. And the truth then is the truth now that we need to champion our narrative. We need to champion the truth around what we do and who we are. There's a sweet spot with a gun, you know, too heavy and it's a

[Michael Butler]

burden to walk with. Too light and you whipping it.

[Robbie]

Why is the project so important to the hunting community?

[Michael Butler]

It's. It's a. I think it's not only important, I think it's. I think it's vital. I think it's, it's just in time. It's like snakes and ladders. You guys are climbing the ladder and then somebody does something stupid and you just slide Down.

[Robbie]

That is such an amazing analogy. Snakes and ladders.

[Michael Butler]

Yeah.

[Robbie]

You know, ivory, in my opinion, was the plastic of its age.

[Michael Butler]

Okay. The expenses are going up. It goes a long way with families. We have families that do need it.

[Robbie]

Let me close this door because I have a little wiener dog. What?

[Michael Butler]

You are.

[Robbie]

You're laughing because I said wiener.

[FishingBooker Announcer]

I'm really glad you finished the sentence out.

[Robbie]

I'm sorry. The first half.

[Michael Butler]

What are we doing here today?

[Robbie]

You're telling the whole world. The man, the myth, the legend, Michael Butler. Is that how they refer to you in the Wildlife Federation corridors?

[Michael Butler]

No, they call me the old man now. April 1st marked my 30th year here.

[Robbie]

That is unbelievable.

[Michael Butler]

Yeah.

[Robbie]

With Tennessee Wildlife Federation.

[Michael Butler]

Yep. I came. I finished up graduate school at Montana State in Bozeman, and then I left there to come home and was publishing in the Journal of Wildlife Management, doing some other work, and then got a call to come interview for a position here. Back then we were called the Tennessee Conservation League. And I started. I interviewed. They offered me the job on the spot. I needed a job. And I said, all right. So I was a wildlife biologist and advisor to the executive director on staff here, and then stuck around and how many stuff.

[Robbie]

At that point, Mike, you know, we.

[Michael Butler]

We had probably a core staff of four with maybe two on so off money. And then it kind of dwindled down. In 2002, they handed me the keys to the car, so to speak, and said, see if you can get the engine running. We were down to me and about a halftime person.

[Robbie]

So 30 years ago, four of you, five of you, 2002, you assumed the reigns as the executive director of the Tennessee Wildlife Federation. And there's half a person working with you.

[Michael Butler]

Well, that. Yes, that's. That's pretty much it. I mean, in 2002, we were still the Conservation League, but one of the big changes that we made was we. We changed. We had a lot of new people come on our board, get some fresh ideas and fresh blood onto the board. And then we. We looked around and we said, you know, our history is in sporting, conservation, and. And the hunting and angling aspect of the conservation movement. And unfortunately, conservation has become kind of this ubiquitous word that has different. Thousands of different meanings to different people, depending on who you're talking to. And so we thought really long and hard and said, if we. We really are about wildlife. And then from there, from that lens of wildlife, comes the entire conservation spectrum we engage through. And I include fish, and when I say wildlife. And so we really did that and rebranded the organization completely in 2004.

[Robbie]

And did you rebrand it to the National Federation?

[Michael Butler]

No, no. We've always. Here's the funny thing. You're familiar with the big Mayflower Hotel historic meeting that was under the F. Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

[Robbie]

Of course not. I'm a foreigner. I do not sound like I'm from Tennessee like you, Michael.

[Michael Butler]

No, you don't. So tell me a little US history. Franklin Delano Roosevelt, who. Who was, I think the nephew of Teddy Roosevelt.

[Robbie]

Okay.

[Michael Butler]

Teddy Roosevelt was one of his heroes. And so when Franklin Dono came president, there was this cartoonist named Ding Darling that is famous for designing the first duck stamp at part of the original conservation movement in the late 30s, 1930s, 20th century. And so Ding and some others convinced President Roosevelt to hold a, a, a conference about wildlife and the plight of wildlife in decline across the United States. And there was this massive conference in D.C. at the Mayflower Hotel. Out of that meeting, I think that was 1937, if I remember correctly, maybe 38. Out of that meeting came the American Wildlife Federation, which in another year would change its name to the National Wildlife Federation. It was also the birthplace of Ducks Unlimited. And it was also the birthplace of state based conservation organizations like ours that created the movement to bring science and professionalism into wildlife management across the country. And so around, if you go look around like my friend Jesse Dubel over in New Mexico.

[Robbie]

New Mexico, Yeah.

[Michael Butler]

You look at when they were founded, it was in the late 30s. Well, the Tennessee Wildlife Federation, interestingly enough, was founded in 1930. 37 if you look. Or 38.

[Robbie]

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[Michael Butler]

And then the war started and all the folks being we're in the Tennessee, we're in the Volunteer State here in Tennessee. Everybody went off to fight the Germans and the Japanese and the story, everybody knows how that story goes. They come back from the war in 45, 46 and they're like, hey, you remember that thing we started? Well, it's time to rebirth that. And it's been long enough. We're going to call it the Tennessee Conservation League. It's going to be a broad conservation based interest. And the first thing we're going to do is we're going to take the politics out of wildlife management and create a professional wildlife agency. And so the founders of our organization met to create the organization in Chattanooga in 1946 on February 12th. And then they, they cut a deal with the incoming governor, the guy running for governor, Gordon Browning. And the governor said, you help me and I'll help you. And voila. We had a professional wildlife agency that he protected politically that is now twra. Wow.

[Robbie]

Yeah.

[Michael Butler]

A little bit of history for you.

[Robbie]

Wow. And I'm just curious when you converted your name in 2003.

[Michael Butler]

4. 4, I think. 2004, I think was the year.

[Robbie]

Did you, are you asking permission to the National Wildlife Federation? Like, hey, we're going to be like, we're going to name ourselves after you. Or it was just like, we're Just changing our name. And we're under your umbrella now, correct?

[Michael Butler]

We just changed our name.

[Robbie]

Were you always under the umbrella technically?

[Michael Butler]

Well, you have, you affiliate and you real, you reaffiliate with NWF on an annual basis.

[Robbie]

Okay.

[Michael Butler]

And so if you look across the national wildlife federation, about 20, about half, maybe more than half are kind of these historic 1930s roots, 1940s roots conservation organization like the Wisconsin Wildlife Federation, the Michigan United Conservation Clubs, the New Mexico Wildlife Federation, Alabama, Mississippi, South Carolina, North Carolina, they're all wildlife federations. Florida, take your pick, Arkansas. And that's all back from that history that took place in the 30s that's still alive today. And so what, what my focus and what Kendall McCarter, my, my, my one of my good buddies growing up who is a co executive. We have two executives in our organization. Yeah.

[Robbie]

So before you get there, let's go back to 2002. It's you plus a half.

[Michael Butler]

Yep, yep.

[Robbie]

You took the helm. You take the reins within you.

[Michael Butler]

They said I had six months because we were, we had a quarter million dollar budget and we were $125,000 in debt.

[Robbie]

So 24 years later, you're still here.

[Michael Butler]

Yep.

[Robbie]

And how many stuff do you have now?

[Michael Butler]

35. And we've got advertising for probably four or five more.

[Robbie]

Wow. What an amazing.

[Michael Butler]

It's been a good ride and it's amazing and it's not been. It's in. And it's been fun and it's been hard, but it, I haven't done it in any stretch by myself. I was just mentioning Kendall McCarter, my partner in crime, chief development officer for our work here. And he and I grew up together and, and I chased after him because he's a fantastic fundraiser. And for years, you know, we would stay in touch and he was working for the Nature Conservancy or he's working for a university. He was doing this, doing that. And finally we had a time and a point in time where I was like, look, I really need to go to the next level. Strategically, we'd already identified. We need somebody that could help us do the development work. And so being that we're right at the same age and grew up together, we were both like, neither one of us is going to work for the other one. So the only way this is going to work is if we're held accountable by the board of directors. And so we split the company down the middle. His expertise is fundraising and communications. So he has development and communications and I have policy and programming and we Share administrative duties. And it's really been a great model because one plus one in this case doesn't equal two. It equals about six. Because we can be in multiple places in multiple times and get a lot

[Robbie]

more face as the same face, essentially.

[Michael Butler]

Exactly, exactly. So that's been a little bit of a secret weapon. It's a little bit of a secret weapon we've had for the last 17 years.

[Robbie]

It's a cloning weapon. Everyone says you need to clone yourself. Well, you've done it.

[Michael Butler]

And our skills complement each other. You know, our personalities are different, our skill sets are different. And that's been a real benefit to the organization in that time frame.

[Robbie]

One of the things that we talked about over the show season, you know, I know that you had a little bit of a. You. You've obviously been at the legislator for quite legislature for quite some time. You guys. Not, not just you guys. Twr there is no money coming from the legislature. Right. In terms of funding wildlife work in Tennessee. And that's very common for those that maybe don't know. That's pretty common that a lot of people, you know, we, we tout ourselves, hunters, hunters and fishermen, you know, our dollars go to work every day funding the wildlife conservation work of the, of. Of essentially the states. And, and we've had people push back on us and the people that push back and also the people that say we don't believe in hunting. And number two, actually, that's false. Non hunters are paying for conservation in this country because they believe in the. The idea that the tax model is actually paying for BLM and USDA and equal funding, which is true, but at a state level. Mississippi Department of Wildlife issues and parks is one. TWRA is another. Don't actually get any money from the government.

[Michael Butler]

So let's start kind of at the. The basement on this and build up the foundation under the basement. Maybe if you look at the federal budget, I think it's less than 1% of the federal budget is spent on natural resources. Last time I looked, when I did the math a few years ago, think about that. There is no human being in this country, no business, no interest that exists without relying upon a natural resource of one type or the other. It's impossible. Whether you're making electrons, cars, food, it doesn't matter. It's so. So when you start from that perspective and then you get into what makes our country so different from a lot of countries is that public. The public in our country owns the air, owns the water. It's a little different from west to east, but where I'm at, the public owns the water, and that's stated in statute at the state level. Same thing with fish and Wildlife. You know, we, we talk about the North American model of wildlife conservation, and that's one of the primary tenants of that model. So then when you start to look at funding around wildlife, fish and wildlife and, and other things, I mean, in Tennessee, we're like a lot of states. We have a state park system, we have a. A wildlife agency in our state. Our wildlife agency is standalone. It is not part of the Department of Natural Resources. And we believe that is a great thing because it elevates the mission around fish and Wildlife, and it doesn't get watered down as part of this giant bureaucracy. And so state parks has their own place and they have a more visible mission, and TWRA has its own place and it has a visual mission. And it really helps push forward this idea that this stuff is important enough to be paid attention to at a high level. So getting back to your point about the funding model, right now sportsmen in Tennessee are funding about 81 to 82% of the wildlife agency's entire budget through license sales and Pittman, Robertson, Dingell, Johnson, Wallop funding from the sale of hunting and fishing equipment and boating equipment, things like that. And as a result of that,

[Robbie]

what

[Michael Butler]

goes on is that that 19% is made up of things like dedicated restricted special funds. Like in Tennessee, we have something called the Wetlands Acquisition Fund that we helped ride and pass in the late 80s. That fund is specifically built to help purchase from willing landowners wetlands that they don't feel they can do anything with. And so. And we've used that to make some exceptions for the acquisition of upland lands in East Tennessee. So it's, it's helped us conserve well north of 100,000 acres in Tennessee since its conception. And there's also a state parks fund. And so those things make up. And things like that make up the balance of that funding that you get. But there are no. To your point, there are no direct appropriations of general tax funds to the wildlife agency, even though their mandate is to manage for all fish and wildlife, not just game fish and wildlife in the state of Tennessee.

[Robbie]

Right.

[Michael Butler]

And so go ahead.

[Robbie]

What about the. How common is that? I know Mississippi does it that way, Tennessee does it that way. Are they. Is it, Is it a. Is it for the majority of game and fish agencies across the country that that's the prevailing model?

[Michael Butler]

Yeah, I think it's. That's a good question. I I don't know that I can speak that it's a majority. I'd say it's the. A large part of the Southeast. There are a handful of states that have dedicated funding models. Now, some states may have annual appropriation battles over monies. Like, I think Georgia may go through that occasionally. But like Missouri has a dedicated portion of sales tax that goes to fund their wildlife agency and their state parks agency. Two different constitutional amendments. Arkansas has something similar for the Game and Fish Commission in Arkansas. Yeah.

[Robbie]

Like their conservation tax on fuel. It's like, you know, eighth of a cent or something like that. Yeah, correct.

[Michael Butler]

But I think for a lot of the state wildlife agencies where, especially where you have an agency that is fairly independent, it is. It is being funded high, largely by sportsmen. And so, you know, you've got you. And to your point, you've got different opinions around, well, we don't need to get funding from non sportsmen because it's not really going to be helpful in the long run around how the agency is managed. And I'll say this, I mean, if we want to protect hunting and fishing and we want to protect wildlife conservation, the only way to truly do that, and we're in a state where we passed, we helped write and push forward and campaign for the constitutional right to hunt and fish as a personal right in Tennessee's constitution, which it is. But the only true protection for all of these things is. Is just leadership from the sporting community. If we don't stand up and say we're for all wildlife, not just the things that we chase, we really need to be supportive of the things that are hunted and the things that aren't because they all use connected habitats, then what's going to happen is we're going to abdicate that leadership throne to somebody else that's not going to have our interest at heart. Right. And so the way to the way forward, in my opinion, is you have to lead, and you have to lead with a voice that says, hey, it's our job to make sure all this stuff is taken care of and that that creates a great energy around making sure that hunting and fishing are acceptable, like hiking and camping, which is one of my personal primary goals.

[Robbie]

Yeah, 100. That's one of our primary goals, too. Very well said. In terms of, you know, us taking the leadership role in showing the world that it's not just about everything that we chase and hunt, but everything collectively in the ecosystem and those habitats being connected and whatnot. Mike, a lot of people don't understand the Wildlife Federation model. And it's really. You can explain it better than I do. But you guys are separate and essentially an autonomous entity to the National Wildlife Federation. And when you guys come together, it's almost like a convention of the parties, right? You're a country to yourself that attends this convention, right?

[Michael Butler]

That's right. And so that's a great question to get into. We are a separate, chartered, state, nonprofit organization. Now, we are affiliated with the National Wildlife Federation. Which means we, I think, send them a very small dues fee. I think it's $37 or something ridiculous like that. And then we turn around and we. We have a set of affiliate standards. That we agree to abide by. Which are pretty commonsensical. And we did. We disagree with what we call the mothership, the big nwf. On a lot of different things. But we agree on a lot of things. And even more importantly. And this is really this. I did a deep dive on their bylaws and their charter few years back. And here's how I would describe it to you in terms of an organizational structure. The National Wildlife Federation is a national corporation. And the state wildlife federations and affiliates are the shareholders in that corporation. We elect a majority of that board at the annual meeting. So we're just like a shareholder in a publicly traded company almost. We have the ability to influence who's on the board. We have an ability to influence policy through the resolutions process. We set policy for the national organization. Through the policy process. Of the resolutions at the annual meeting. And those are voted on. And when you go in to an annual meeting at the National Wildlife Federation. It looks like a little version of the unit, but it's not. It's not. It's not countries, it's states.

[Robbie]

Do people walk in with their flags, their state flags?

[Michael Butler]

No. But you have a placard with your name on it. If you're a delegate. And it has your state flag right there, as you see. So it's like Congress a little bit. You know, it's a. It's a democratic process. And so, you know, we have a lot of different resolutions that come through on an annual basis. And really, what I see happening right now with nwf. I've been, you know, working with him for a long time. We do a lot of good work. They support a lot of our work. We've also had strong disagreements in the past on priorities and things like that. But I'll tell you that the ability to bring together, like my buddy Howard Penn. That runs the affiliate out in California. Very different organization from mine. But when you can collectively bring together 52 affiliates, or 51, whatever the number is right now, because we have Puerto Rico and I think the US Virgin Islands. Think about the impact you can have in Congress if everybody's singing off the same sheet of music back in the districts of all the different congressional delegations. Right. And so we always say that conservation and Fish and Wildlife are nonpartisan because they have to be. I mean, we see great bipartisan support for, in Tennessee, public lands, fish and wildlife, all these different things. And so I would argue to you that a big role of all of these state organizations and the national is. There's a big disconnect right now today between the elected and the electorate as it relates to conservation. There's no reason why we should have to be eating table scraps and budgets around fish and wildlife management. It is the economic numbers. And you see these put out all the time by folks like the different groups that do the research around the economics of hunting and fishing and wildlife watching. I mean, they're billions and billions and billions. And it kind of becomes kind of a trite kind of discussion. But it's, it's real and it's, and it's, and it's really meaningful when you get to deal with folks like we've just. As a little sidebar, we've started something called the Outdoor Business Roundtable. In our new initiative, we have a new initiative called the Institute for Conservation, which is a real next level kind of approach to conservation policy that we've put out there as a new, as a program, Outdoor Business Roundtable. We're talking to everybody that make goes from manufacturing to retail to guide services. The one thing they all have in common is their customers. For them to be in business, their customers have to have healthy fish and wildlife and natural resources to go pursue and play to afford or need or want the things that they're selling. And so bringing them together as a voice to say, look, and we've got a lot of these companies that are now saying we need dedicated funding from the wildlife age, from the General assembly in Tennessee to fund wildlife. And that's from people that are manufacturing stuff, like I said, all the way to folks that are just, hey, I'm a hunting and fishing guide and my livelihood depends on the health of these resources.

[Robbie]

Do you feel like they didn't have in conversations with them, are they saying they didn't have a voice or they didn't know where to go to express their, their voice in terms of like, yes, this is the Kind of stuff that we need. Are you. Is that now almost like internal to Tennessee, you're building this, this essentially conglomerate?

[Michael Butler]

Yeah, I think it's, it's kind of like if you look at private business in general, I, I get it, Robbie. I think of it this way. If you're a bigger company, you have trade organizations. Like if you're a big, if you're Beretta or Smith and Wesson, you're going to join the National Shooting Sports foundation, which is a trade organization representing your interests. Right. So if you. But, but a lot of these companies are small and their mom and pops. And when you're running a small business, as you know, as you do, the amount of time you have to pay attention to things that aren't the main thing that you've got to get done every day is really difficult. It may be important, but being able to set aside capacity is really tough. So what we're trying to do is to make it easy for them and say, hey, we're going to provide you the capacity. We're going to organize this. It doesn't cost anything, but you need to be aware of what's going on. And in return, when we make you aware of something that we think is a good thing and you agree, we need you to help us make sure that the elected officials that pay attention to you because you create jobs in the community hear that and act on that.

[Robbie]

Cool. I like that a lot. I like that a lot. Mike, One of the things that I'm curious about, again, the reason I asked about all the history of the federation and whatnot, you know, in, in my past dealings, if there's a sentiment that NWF as a national and certain chapters are very much like anti hunting antique sustainable use, and that's the prerogative of those chapters and obviously the prerogative of the national. Yet there's certain chapters, affiliates of the Wildlife Federation, like Tennessee, like Wyoming, that are very much hunter focused, sustainable use driven, sort of mission focused chapters. Is there any like. And again, I guess this is where it's sort of the UN comes in, right? Like, we're not going to talk to you. You don't have the same philosophy as us.

[Michael Butler]

Not really. And I'll tell you, this is how I would describe it. The Baltimore Aquarium is an affiliate of the National Wildlife Federation. They're not a sporting conservation organization, but they have a mission that is compatible across the line around conservation. They're just not going to engage on sporting stuff. Right. So if I look at different organizations, I don't know that there's an organization that I've seen that has brought forth any policy suggestion or really carries a banner of anti hunting within the family of affiliates. Now I can promise you there are ones that. That's not part of their book of business. They're just not. That's not what they're interested in. I mean, like in Kentucky you've got the Kentucky Waterways Alliance. The guy that runs that. I don't believe he's an anti hunter at all or an anti angler. I think he might engage anglers in that. But they're a waterways alliance. They're not a general sporting conservation organization like we are. So that's the. That's really how I would describe the difference along that way. Now to that point. I mean, there's a hunter and angler working group that meets on a monthly basis within the Federation.

[Robbie]

Federation.

[Michael Butler]

And you probably know Lou Carpenter. Yeah. That works for nwf. He kind of runs that on a regular basis. In fact, I think looking at my schedule, there is one today at 3pm actually that I'll probably hop on when I'm driving to West Tennessee after this. And. And we really talk about those national things that you need to coordinate on like. Well, I mean, the CWD research and management bill that passed a few years back, we were all working on that together.

[Robbie]

More of a collective of voices versus the national taking a position. Because can national take a position if there's affiliates that are not on the same ilk?

[Michael Butler]

That's an interesting point. And there have been issues that have come up where the state organization took a very different position than the national organization. And at certain times it created real problems. And they. What happened is they had to sit down and work that out. And I will say that in the end, I believe the states typically are respected in their approach. Depending on what the issue is. I mean, it's not going to be a situation where the national runs roughshod over the state organization. There may be a situation where people aren't communicating and something comes up and something goes down. That's pretty upsetting and you end up. But, but in the end, what I have seen is they all sit down at the table and they hash it out. Now they may have tough conversations and they may be very candid conversations. But you know, that's even happened in Tennessee. We had folks come in here and say we're involved in this particular initiative that's going underway and we had no idea about it. When I found out about it, I call up there, I'M like, what in the heck's going on? You know, we're all in the same family. Why aren't you let me know? And so, and, and, and I'm sure there's some of that vice versa, you know, where some of the states have done things like that and it ends up, you know, creating some challenges. But I'll say this. That's part of being in a family at Thanksgiving when everybody comes in and you're sitting around the table, I may not require you to support my position, but I also may not be interested in supporting your position. And so what we try to look for are those things of common areas of agreement to where our collective impact was really big. And so funding for Fish and Wildlife is usually one of those, like Recovering America's Wildlife act was one that we had almost complete solidarity on across the board within the federation family. And, you know, that idea has been out there for 20 something years, maybe 30 years.

[Robbie]

Right.

[Michael Butler]

And we eventually are going to need to make that happen. But that's a good example of something that everybody came around. And then it's kind of like you familiar with the American Wildlife Conservation Partners, you know, their model is really a coalition of the willingness. And on a lot of things that are important to states, you get a coalition of the willing. And so it's not, I'll say this, I'll kind of close it out with this. NWF's ability to make an impact is significant. I think the future is bright for it to become much more significant. And how it becomes much more significant is they invest in organizations at the state level, because that is the differentiator in the debate between Washington and the rest of the country. That's going to be what separates things moving forward in my mind. Because if you have representatives in 50 states saying this is something that's good for the country, then the probability of that happening is much higher at the federal level. For sure. Yeah, for sure. Well, let's.

[Robbie]

Let's spin to what you guys are doing at the state level. You guys, I know you're involved in a lot of really amazing things. And the reason I reached out to you for this podcast is that I got an email from you. Well, not actually from you, but from your team from the Tennessee Wildlife Federation. I quickly looked through it and it had some of your accomplishments that happened in 2025, and one of the ones that stuck out to me specifically. And I see this all over the world. A lot of people, I'm very privileged at the sort of perspective that I get nowadays. And that perspective is how hunting sustainable use of wildlife is a deeply human activity. And deeply human in which it is impacting people's lives. It's not that when I say somebody's going to say deeply human. Oh, Robbie. It's because you guys get a thrill of killing something. That's not it. It's the fact that the result of the activity changes people's lives in many, many, many different ways. If it's from education and medical clinics in the middle of some South Africa and Pakistan to venison distribution programs that happen all across the world. And it's not just happening in New Zealand or in Africa, but it's actually happening here at home at your back door in a state like Tennessee.

[Michael Butler]

It is. It's funny you mention it that way because I told our staff, we had an all staff meeting last week and I looked at the group and I said, you know, first thing, I would never have imagined we would have a team of 35 people. But second thing is recognize that you are each leaders in your own right. Because all of the different programs that we are doing are changing lives. Whether it's helping to feed people with venison through Hunters for the Hungry, whether it's getting kids into the clay shooting sports where we're teaching them leadership and accountability and safety and all these great things, and getting them as a gateway, teaching them a skill that gets them into the gateway of hunting through shotgun sports, or whether it's through Hunting and Fishing Academy, which we're reaching around 7,000 people a year who are asking themselves, saying, hey, I'm kind of interested in learning more about this. And Robbie, we have one metrics of success for that program. It is literally when they go through the program, when they're done, do they say, I am a hunter or I am a fisherman or an angler. And if they say that we win, right, we win because we've converted somebody that says, I'm just interested to. I self identify as this. And it goes back to what you said about the deep human experience. I mean, all the research points to the fact that people are looking for community. And this is a community that frankly is pretty intimidating to try to break into if you're an outsider wanting to learn. And so our programming is really built around this entire idea of how do we make this easy for people. So we do online webinars where people can do it at the safety of their own home, watching it on YouTube or however we're broadcasting that. And then we do skills workshops and then we take them and we put them in the woods for a weekend and say, all right, we're going to go do this. And so I think your point is, well, well taken, is that there is. And a lot of people talk about this and they philosophize about this, but it is very true that there is something deeply genetic about our connection to the outdoors. You know, a lot of, for a lot of people like me, it's a faith question. My personal faith is that, like, hey, I really, I can enjoy visiting the city, but I don't really like being surrounded by things man has created, because the thing that man has created are things that reflect man. When I'm in the woods or in the outdoors, I'm looking at what I believe is God's creation and that reflects him. And so it is a life giving experience. And a lot of people have different versions of that same experience and they attribute it to different things. That's my personal approach to it and it's what makes the most sense to me. But that being said, there's no denying that people get, they're changed when they get exposed to the outdoors and for the better. You know, Plato wrote about the fall of Greece and he said that Greece fell because the people lacked virtue. And he said they lost virtue when they left the land and they urbanized, they loft. I'm paraphrasing, but that's essentially what the thesis was. But that's.

[Robbie]

Think of what time, you know, when was Plato around?

[Michael Butler]

That's a good question. I don't, I don't know. Have that timeline.

[Robbie]

Long time ago. Long time ago.

[Michael Butler]

Yeah.

[Robbie]

Are we seeing the exact same thing happening today?

[Michael Butler]

Oh, I think so. Absolutely.

[Robbie]

100% same. Same. You know, it's crazy. I just did a podcast series. It's funny how that those kinds of things come up. I just did a podcast series with a fantastic individual out of Zimbabwe. He's an anthropologist, archaeologist, knower of all things. He's this like a book nerd. He's surrounded by books, right? His whole office is books and he's got piles of books on his desk that he's working his way through. And he's just a lover of history, a lover of people, of things. Anyway, we did a podcast series between understanding Frederick Courtney Salou and how Frederick Courtney Salus friendship developed with Teddy Roosevelt and how that matured and what that looked like. And at the same time, Frederick Courtney Salou was lamenting about habitat loss and wildlife conservation issues in the 1880s, 1890s, and he's pen Palling with Teddy Roosevelt. And Teddy Roosevelt's lamenting about habitat issues and wildlife issues and whatnot. And those guys are talking about it then, we're talking about it now still. Like, these are the issues. Like people need to be involved in wildlife management decisions and how can we do that and how can we protect things and whatnot. Tell me a little bit more about your Hunters for the Hungry program. I love, I love the idea of Hunters for the Hungry. I think it's a fantastic, you know, PR program program. I think it's a showing of our hearts. It's the most giving component of what we can do. The meat is landing up in people's freezes that desperately need it. I'm just looking at some of your statistics here. Over 163,000 pounds of venison, a program record in 2025 that resulted in just over 650,000 servings of food that went to food banks and soup kitchens. Another program record. And you've obviously have processes that are all the way through the state. Looks like 67 processes are there.

[Michael Butler]

More and more.

[Robbie]

How do, how does. Well, before. If somebody's listening to this in Tennessee, how can they be involved in Hunters for the Hungry?

[Michael Butler]

Well, it's really pretty simple. If you go, you can pull it up on your phone or go to our website on a computer. If you're a deer hunter and you shoot a deer and you want to make a donation, we have a find a processor near you function on the Hunters for the Hungry page of that site. And you can just type in.

[Robbie]

It'll.

[Michael Butler]

It'll geolocate where you are on a Google map and say, hey, you're this far from the nearest person. And it gives you their address and their phone number. So it's really that simple@tn wf.org and so, you know, that idea really was started by a board member of ours back in the 1980s, and it kind of bumped along as one of these feel good programs. And then somebody came to us right around the time I started in 96 and said, hey, we want to take this and make it its own nonprofit. And so we begrudgingly agreed to let them try to do that. And then after two years, they promptly ran it into the ground and we came back and picked up the pieces and officially we relaunched it in 1998. And in 1998, we started and we ran it on basically baling wire and twine. It was not well funded. It was. It was really tough. And we learned some hard lessons, like, you know, these Guys that are, that are in the processing business, a lot of them are super generous, but they're still running a business and they have to have predictability of funds. So one year we got a lot of money and we did a lot of deer. The next year we didn't have the money and they couldn't do as many deer. And you don't, you can't. That doesn't, that's not a good way to make it work. So we began staffing that program about 17, 18 years ago. Hired a guy by the name of Matt Simcox. It looks like he ought to be on one of the Duck Dynasty shows. He's a fantastic guy. And he travels the state in a, in a pickup truck that we got a big wrap on for, for Faunus for the hungry. But the long and short of it is this. I mean, you've mentioned, you summarized it really well. It's leveraging the generosity of sportsmen to help the needy across the state of Tennessee. And it has some very basic components. Now it takes money to make the whole thing work. But when we have the money, you have the processors that process the deer at no charge to the sportsman you've identified. You drop it off and they process it. Now most of our processors, if you bring them a nasty looking deer that's been gut shot and left for a day before you brought it over and you didn't field dress it, they're going to tell you, nope, not taking it. They kind of look out. They've really taken pride and they're kind of the quality control of this whole thing. And then what we've also done is developed relate. So we've got 70. See, I think you said 67. I think we're up above 70 for this coming year. I think, I think we picked up three new processors and we've been as high as 80 processors. And that kind of ebbs and flows. You know, when the pandemic hit. When the pandemic hit, it was hard to get people to process deer because they were processing beef. Yeah. And custom slaughterhouses. So once you get the processors in place, then you need to distribute this stuff. And let me tell you, distribution is a, is a big job. And we didn't used to have what we have now. We used to kind of do it on our own. You know, somebody had a hunger relief charity, they sent us a letter requesting venison and we would figure out some way to get them what was coming from that processor. And it was a nightmare all over the state. But Matt Simcox, our program manager, came up with the idea of creating strategic partnerships with the biggest of the big food banks and using their distribution network to push this back into rural Tennessee. Because one of the big themes that we wanted to follow was a rural hunter takes the deer in rural Tennessee and wants to see it help a rural community.

[Robbie]

Right.

[Michael Butler]

Well, like Second Harvest Food bank here in Nashville is a massive organization. I mean, they're a 20 plus million dollar company and they do a ton of business. Now it's illegal to sell venison, so they get all the venison for free from us through this, through the processors. But we have situations now to where their teams are picking up the venison from the processors, which allows us to have a checks and balance on weighing the venison to make sure that what's being donated by the hunters is actually hitting the target. And then through their distribution system, they're networked with all these different rural hunger relief efforts already. So we just feed product through their pipeline. And now some of it will go to a place like Room in the Inn downtown here in Nashville to make chili for homeless people. A lot of it will go into rural ministries that help feed people back home. But since 1998, I think we passed last year. I think we passed 10 million servings, if I remember right. Or maybe 10 million pounds. I can't remember the exact stat. That's amazing.

[Robbie]

I've been cranked down. And it's a clever mechanism. The pipeline of the. That's already there. From a food distribution perspective, man, that's

[Michael Butler]

all you needed to do and a need for. It helps people that want to manage deer populations on their farms. It gives them an outlet to. To go do that. Because, you know, in. In some cases you just. It's hard to harvest enough deer to. To really meet your objectives.

[Robbie]

Yeah, no. And it becomes hard work. Right. You don't. Taking one or two deer is fine, but needing to take eight to 10

[Michael Butler]

deer, it becomes a lot. And you know, we've got landowners. I've got wasted one landowner just north of you in Haywood county, good friend of ours, former board member, had a goal one year and he hit the goal he had hit. He took 40. Wow. And it didn't dent the population, but it was, to your point, a whole different level of work to be that intensive about trying to harvest that in one year.

[Robbie]

Yeah, it's a different level, man. I'm so glad that there are programs like that do the. If you. If you don't mind me, Asking about a little bit of the inside baseball in terms of funding. Do the processors get something for their. Their time and effort, or is it purely volunteer on the processor's perspective?

[Michael Butler]

No, in fact, that's a really important point. They. They allow us to pay them a discounted rate. So we do pay them a certain amount of money per deer that they process. And, you know, like with everything else, the cost of business has been going up, so we've been working hard to try to find extra funding to help them out more. But again, it has to be sustainable because we can't go move it up one year and not the other. We have to be. We have to. We have to. Basically, they're one of the most, if not the most important link in the whole program, so we got to take care of them and make sure that they're. They're healthy.

[Robbie]

So if people are listening to this podcast, they're like, man, I want to throw a couple of bucks, recurring money to you to the Hunters for the Hungry program. How can they do that? They go to your website.

[Michael Butler]

Go to our website? Yep. Big donate button, easy to click, and say, here's what I want to do, and follow the following. The instructions. It's really pretty. Pretty straightforward.

[Robbie]

Fantastic. Well, Mike, thank you, man. I know that you're about to get on the road. You've got a long evening in front of you.

[Michael Butler]

So do I. But anything.

[Robbie]

Anything that you want to talk about in the future, anything pops up, you know, you've got an outlet through us here.

[Michael Butler]

That's great, Robbie. I appreciate it. And there are some things coming up that I think maybe you and your. Your audience would be interested in hearing about that we're looking at on a. On a bigger scale. And I'll catch up with you on the flip side and kind of talk about that.

[Robbie]

Let's do it. Thanks, Mike.

[Michael Butler]

Thank you.

[Robbie]

Well, that's it for today. I appreciate you listening. As always, leave a review, share it with your friends, and most importantly, do what's right to convey the truth around hunting.