Helix Program #5 || Danene Van Der Westhuizen

Summary

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Podcast Summary

The Origins Foundation Podcast

Episode: Helix Program #5 || Danene Van Der Westhuizen
Date: June 9, 2026
Guest: Danene Van Der Westhuizen (Owner, ARU Game Lodge, Namibia)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the holistic impacts of hunting on wildlife conservation, sustainable land management, and community upliftment in Namibia, as exemplified by ARU Game Lodges. Host Dani (with input from Rob and Chase) leads an in-depth conversation with Danene Van Der Westhuizen about the realities, benefits, and challenges of the sustainable use model, the economic and social role hunting plays, and the multiple layers of community-driven impact made possible by responsible hunting operations.

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Key Topics & Insights

1. Danene’s Background and ARU’s Philosophy

• Danene shares her path from studying optometry to joining her family’s wildlife operation ([03:38], [04:15]):
  • "You never think of yourself as a, as a hunter. And because I'm a hunter, I do… we’re good human beings that also hunt." — Danene ([06:15])
  • Emphasizes love for the land, the animals, and people who help protect it ([06:32])
• Background of the ARU Game Lodge and its expansion into diverse conservation initiatives.

2. Community and Worker Empowerment

• ARU employs ~65 people full time, supporting about 300 individuals with housing and resources ([11:31]):
  • "All in all, look at about 300 people that stay, that are born and are supported… on our areas." — Danene ([11:48])
• Danene underscores the importance of uplifting workers, supporting education, and creating avenues for professional advancement ([27:12]):
  • "To see people better themselves, empowering people… Instead of just being a somebody that works the fences. Now he’s a professional hunter…" — Danene ([27:12])

3. Healthcare for Staff and Community

• ARU leverages Danene’s optometry background and her brother-in-law’s dentistry expertise ([06:12]):
  • "My brother-in-law comes out regularly just for teeth… And I do the same with the optometry." — Danene ([06:32])
• These services address the major rural challenge of logistics, eliminating the need to transport workers to distant towns for basic care ([06:12]).

4. Land Management and Game Meat Utilization

• ARU manages 31,000 hectares of deeded land plus large concessions, totaling up to 138,000 acres of hunting ground ([10:03]).
• Game meat distribution:
  • Large-scale butchery operates year-round, supplying clients, staff, local pensioner homes, and schools ([14:10]).
  • Excess meat triggers collaboration with neighboring landowners, boosting broader community benefits ([14:44]).
  • "Our workers get 1 1/2 kgs of meat per day per person. So that's a lot of meat that you kind of give out…" — Danene ([14:48])

5. Wildlife Management & Ecological Balance

• Population control is essential in the arid, drought-prone Kalahari ([15:36]):
  • "You’ve got certain levels that you want to keep your animals at, otherwise they’ll just degrade the felt…" — Dani ([15:40])
• ARU actively purchases surplus game from livestock farmers, providing economic incentives to maintain wildlife ([16:16]):
  • This reduces indiscriminate culling and encourages coexistence between livestock agriculture and wildlife.

6. Economic Insights

• Economic contrast between sheep/livestock farming and wildlife:
  • Wildlife management is labor-intensive and less predictable, but creates unique value with hunters, tourism, and meat sales ([16:35]).
• Trophy fees and government roles:
  • In Namibia, significant eco-tourism/conservancy areas remit funds to communities, not directly to the government ([18:16]).
  • Big-game hunts (such as black rhino) generate critical funding, though conservation challenges persist, such as poaching and the impacts of dehorning ([19:10]):
    • "With the poaching being so high, the government decided to dehorn all the rhino..." — Danene ([19:27])

7. Conservation Science, Monitoring, and Tech

• Translocation and collaring of rhinos to reduce poaching risk ([21:13]):
  • "We collared some rhino that we now use with Earth Ranger… a system where you can preempt a poaching incident." — Danene ([22:04])
• ARU supports scientific research, hosting studies on giraffe DNA, cheetah relocation, and regular wildlife monitoring ([23:09], [23:59]).
  • "Hunters are the first line in defense when it comes to science…" — Danene ([23:09])

8. Professional Development and Gender Milestones

• ARU fosters internal promotion: staff rise from farm and kitchen work to positions as PHs, chefs, and managers ([27:09]).
• Danene was the first female professional hunter in Namibia and today there are two ([29:25]):
  • "Are you still the only female professional hunter in Namibia? … I was the first and now there’s two." — Danene ([29:31])

9. The Meaning behind “ARU”

• ARU is named for the abundance of worm cure ("Aru") trees on the original lodge site ([29:55]):
  • "The Bushmen take the bark and they make a teas… But it’s also a sign of water." — Danene ([29:55])

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Notable Quotes

• Danene:

  • "You love the land, you love the people that come with it… that help protect." ([06:32])
  • "We’re good human beings that also hunt." ([06:15])
  • "Wildlife doesn’t mean anything if you can’t sell it. Same with sheep." ([16:35])
  • "To see people better themselves, empowering people… That makes me happy…" ([27:12])
  • "That empowerment, but also becoming a protector of the land." ([27:16])
  • "There’s value in each of those lives… I don't believe in [indiscriminate killing of problem animals]." ([24:34])

• Dani:

  • "You can't put a price on… that anecdotal evidence of just being in the field constantly." ([26:02])
  • "You’ve figured out the whole value chain." ([14:44])
  • "The rain gives us hope. So if it rains, everybody’s happy." ([26:37])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:43] — Danene’s unlikely path from optometry to conservation
• [06:12] — ARU’s community health and well-being model
• [10:03] — The vastness of ARU’s landholdings and hunting concessions
• [14:10] — Butchery operations, logistics, and meat distribution
• [15:36] — Wildlife numbers management and ecological balance
• [19:01] — Rhino conservation, poaching, and Namibia’s trust fund mechanism
• [21:13] — Rhino relocation, collaring, and use of real-time monitoring tech
• [23:09] — ARU’s role in conservation science and collaborations
• [27:12] — Worker training, empowerment, and career progression
• [29:55] — The origin and meaning of "ARU"

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Memorable Moments

• Danene’s story of standing in line for dental care at ARU—highlighting rural healthcare challenges ([06:32])
• The story of the “snakes and ladders” analogy—progress and setbacks in conservation ([02:33])
• The candid contrast between managing wildlife and livestock, and the economic gymnastics required to make wildlife management sustainable ([16:35])
• The emotional importance of rain as a literal and figurative symbol for the entire community ([26:37])
• The family legacy and pride in seeing farm workers become professional hunters and skilled staff ([27:16])

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Further Information

• Learn more about ARU Game Lodges: arugamelodges.com
• Instagram: @arusafaris
• Facebook: ARU Game Lodges

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This episode is a comprehensive look at why sustainable use hunting, when done thoughtfully within the Namibian context, is not just about wildlife, but about people, heritage, and genuine care for the land and its future. It’s also a deeply human story of legacy, innovation, and pride.

Transcript

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[Rob]

Deneen van der Westhausen is the owner of ARU Game Lodge in Namibia. Her and her husband are considered dear friends. But more importantly, these guys live, breathe and their hearts belong in wildlife conservation. They are one of the outstanding models when it comes to showing the true benefits, impacts and consequences of what hunting can do for people for wildlife and community upliftment all throughout Namibia. They have an amazing lodge. I've yet to see it. I apologize, Deneen. I will see it hopefully in 2026 or 2027. I just wanted to have this conversation with Deneen. It's tied to our Helix program. Arya Lodge is a member of our Helix program to really give her an opportunity to voice the things that she does for all those elements that we know hunting benefits. So enjoy this podcast live from Vienna, Austria, where Deneen and I were attending the general assembly of cic.

[Chase]

So five years ago there was a reason why I started this movement. And the truth then is the truth now that we need to champion our narrative. We need to champion the truth around what we do and who we are.

[Dani]

There's a sweet spot with a gun,

[Chase]

you know, too heavy and it's a

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

burden to walk with.

[Dani]

Too light and you whipping it. Why is the project so important to the hunting community? I think it's not only important, I think it's vital. I think it's just in time.

[Rob]

It's like snakes and ladders.

[Dani]

You guys are climbing the ladder and

[Rob]

then somebody does something stupid and you just slide that.

[Chase]

That is such an amazing analogy.

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

Snakes and ladders.

[Chase]

Yeah. You know, ivory in, in my opinion was the plastic of its age.

[Dani]

Okay.

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

The expenses were Going up. It goes a long way with families. We have families that do need it.

[Chase]

Let me close this door because I have a little weiner dog.

[Dani]

What you are.

[Chase]

You're laughing because I said wiener.

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

I'm really glad you finished the sentence out. I'm sorry the first happened. We doing here today.

[Chase]

You're telling the whole world.

[Dani]

So we're going to talk about all of the benefits that you. That you guys do in Namibia. In Vienna, Austria together.

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

Okay.

[Dani]

Look at that. Oh, you gave me a glass. I'll take. Yeah, for sure. Dun. Van de Westasen Aru. Namibia Famous Aru.

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

Don't know about that.

[Dani]

I found that you told me something yesterday I didn't know about you. You're an optometrist. Yep.

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

Yeah, I'm an optometrist. I studied first in selling Bosch a year and then it was funny because Stellenbosch is the thing to do when you're in Namibian, right? You move. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't go to Transvaal or it's just a no go.

[Dani]

But at the time they go to Vitsu. Go to Steli.

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

No, no, you go to Stellenbos. Otherwise might as well move out of Africa. But I studied for a year in Salem Bos. And then I decided okay, want to do optometry. But at the time you could only study it in Ra. Johannesburg. Oh yeah.

[Dani]

That's even worse.

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

Yes. My dad. Oh, I'll never forget when I told him I'm moving to Joburg, he said it's like in Afrikaans they say it's like Blut.

[Dani]

Like a blood scandal.

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

Yeah. It's the worst thing ever.

[Dani]

My daughter can't be going to Johannesburg University. Are you crazy?

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

But it was the best four years of my life. It was an amazing career.

[Dani]

So there was of our. Of our friends, my guy friends. There's five of us. Four of us went to wits, one went to rao.

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

Yes.

[Dani]

And the stuff that he said that happened at rao.

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

I was. It was the best four years of my. It took me six months to get into that community because everything's enclosed, right. With rao and I was. You never went outside. And they were super serious with their first year orientation was much worse than in Stellenbosch. Luckily I was a. What they called it. Well, I had to apply for to become a Jingo, which was a first year with second year rights. But I could only apply for that in six months in. So yeah, I cried every single day. And I was caught on drums terrace and I was showered in the showers and Oh, I just hated it. And then when that six months was over, my life changed and it became, I was in Squinfeld. It became some of the best years of my life, honestly.

[Dani]

So the reason, the reason I bring it up is we've already talked about sort of the benefits that come from hunting with you. Okay. And clearly you didn't tell me all the benefits then because you do offer optometry services.

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

Yeah, but it's funny, you know, it's like I told you yesterday, it's stuff

[Dani]

you don't think about.

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

Yeah, it's stuff you don't think about because it's a lifestyle. You, you live with people, you live with animals. You, it's, it's a normality. It's normal to help, it's normal to provide. It's normal to ask also and to, to receive.

[Dani]

Yeah. But I would say that people don't think it's normal for hunters to do it.

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

I don't know why, maybe, but we, we, we're good human beings that also hunt. We. You know, you never think of yourself as a, as a hunter. And because I'm a hunter, I do

[Dani]

this or because you're a hunter, you're a bad person.

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

Yeah, it is just we Namibians, we, we patriots, we. And the crux of it all is you love the land. That's what it is. You love the land, you love the people that come with it because the ones that protect, that help protect. So yeah, we do. My brother in law comes out regularly just for teeth. He's a dentist, for example. And the biggest problem usually is logistics. So it's very difficult to take 50 people into town to see a doctor. Then you have to also pay for it. You know, you have to wait. If you go to the state hospitals, you, you have to wait a week sometimes just to get service, unfortunately. So we just turn it around. He comes out to the lodges and everybody stands in line. They wait half an hour and he pulls teeth or gives whatever is necessary. And I do the same with the optometry.

[Chase]

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[Rob]

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[Chase]

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[Dani]

So what do you need to do?

[Chase]

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[Dani]

You guys own Veronica and Collaqua. How big is the. The two properties together?

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

Veronica is 19,000 hectares. Kaqua is 12,000 hectares.

[Dani]

So 31,000 hectares. So about 70,000 acres around there.

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

Yeah. And then we've got a soul hunting concession right next doors to Kalakwa, which is another 23,000 hectares. So all in all is about 130 to 140,000 acres.

[Chase]

Jeez.

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

And we manage that area, which we like because it's a. We've got soil, hunting rights. So the whole management of that area, the quota that we decide on, we kind of manage that for the owner as well. So hunting ground is about 138,000 hectares acres.

[Dani]

And then you also did. Didn't you say you do something Caprivi as well? Did you get that concession? Did you get that bid? No, you didn't?

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

We did and then they took it away.

[Dani]

Okay.

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

Yeah. Funny stories, that being the Caprivi, but we share A concession with Talbert Miller in Buparu. So we still have that. Yeah, so we do that a lot. And this was a great option or opportunity because it was right next doors. The thing in the Caprivi, especially in the conservancy areas, is that areas are too small to track a proper elephant. You find a good track, it gets

[Dani]

out of your concession quick. Yeah.

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

Two days and it's gone. So if it doesn't stay there, you. And that was the optimal thing for us. We wanted to part and bilateral right next doors to each other, which made it a huge area. And we wanted to hunt and operate that together. To have. To have habitat, so to say, instead of coming to a line and saying, okay, now it's gone and you have to hunt five elephant and you have to shoot 12 buffalo. Yeah, you know, it's just not fair.

[Dani]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

It was a wildlife ultimately.

[Dani]

Yeah. In terms of Veronica and Collacqua, how many people do you employ?

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

We've got about now 65 people working for us, permanently employed, without my managers. And then all of them, their wives, their children, all of them live with us. So all in all, look at about 300 people that stay, that are born and are supported. That supported on our areas.

[Dani]

You have a big meat component to what you do, right?

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

Yes. Well, not a funny story, but a maybe. It's a sad story, but during COVID when we had no clients at all, you know, I started to think of ways to attract especially local people. Because that's just one sad thing about Namibia is your most beautiful areas are private land. Everybody travels to Etosha and saucers flay. And it is beautiful. But there's some secrecy. So there's some secret beauty that really lies on private land. So I decided, I said, I said let's, let's get local people in here. They never see this beauty. But then also the other things. We've always had a butchery, very nice, but tre that we used for South African meat hunters that came in each year. We had about four to six groups maximum each year that would come for them.

[Dani]

You process the meats, the whole kitten, we'll package it up, vacuum seal it,

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

put in their coolers, everything, process everything and we ship it down, couriered, organize all the permits for them up to their address. So we always had the butchery, but we only used it for these four or five groups a year. And then obviously for the both of the lodges. But we had all this meat, we had no clients. All these animals walking around. We had to Call. We had to manage, as I understand

[Dani]

Veronica and Clark, where you don't really have a community that is associated with it. It's not like you. All the excess meat is going into a community area. That's not what your system is.

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

We've got a. We've got a few schools and we've got a lot of old pensioner homes in Vintuk that we support with meat. But we almost have too much meat for that.

[Dani]

Right.

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

And then also again we've got 300 people that work for us or 65, but with their families it's about 300. And that's my community. That was my first priority.

[Dani]

Excess meat beyond. We still have excess giving everybody what they need.

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

Exactly.

[Dani]

Yeah.

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

So and we sit with that resource. We never use it optimally. It's a. It's stupid and it's sad and it's. And it's, you know, unacceptable to a certain point. And it had to take covert to convince us or to make us see that we sit with this incredible resource. So we started a full blown butchery. We had the ministry come out. It was a registered as a internationally standard butchery. And now it's. We deliver every Thursday in town and courier all over Namibia.

[Dani]

You say in town in Vinto account.

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

So every Thursday we'll drive in the 200Ks. We've got a little store in Ventuk and a storage room where everything is being delivered and people can either come and pick it up or it gets distributed through the various shops in Winto. But anything from schnitzels, game meat pies, hamburger patties, TR boltong sausages, everything all the way down to pet food. And that's probably one of my best things that I'm selling at the moment is the raw pet food.

[Dani]

Sort of figured out the whole value chain, right? Yeah, yeah.

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

So there is quite a lot of value. And then we've got a lot of. Obviously a lot of people. Our workers get 1 1/2 kgs of meat per day per person. So that's a lot of meat that you kind of give out. The lodges use a lot. So we're at a stage now where we kind of have to hunt extra or buy in meat from neighboring areas. And that's another great way how we support our community within that area.

[Dani]

You're asking them, hey, we'll give you more value for your wildlife.

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

Exactly. So a lot of people now will phone me on Monday mornings and say can we hunt or can we shoot 20 springbok this week? Will you?

[Dani]

Will let me Treat you somebody because somebody may be listening to this and going, man, you're just killing all your wildlife. But you need to, you need to manage your wildlife. It's not like your springboks reach a thousand springbok and they're like, okay, we're cool, we'll just stay at a thousand.

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

No, they go up to 4, 5, 6,000 in some instances.

[Dani]

And you've got certain levels that you want to keep your animals at, otherwise they'll just degrade the felt. And obviously Namibia being a drought drone area, definitely, and we'll lose animals.

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

And that is that community with, you know, surrounding us as well. Most of the people there, well, not most, but a lot of them are livestock farmers. So. So especially in that area that Veronica is in, in the Kalahari, there's a lot of sheep farming. So for those farmers see wildlife as a direct competition, but now they know that we constantly will buy meat from them. So they don't eradicate it just randomly.

[Dani]

What is the, have you looked at, especially with those sheep farmers, where, what are the, what's the economics now, given that you're buying their meat just like their sheep? Right. They would be selling sheep for meat. How close is it? Is it close? Is it even close?

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

Yeah, it's an easier life farming with sheep, in my opinion. Some people might kill me for it, but it is an easier life. You, you wait it out and you sell your sheep and you buy new sheep. And wildlife is much more practically driven and you need to have hunters. Wildlife doesn't mean anything if you, if you, if you can't sell it. Same with sheep. But I think it's an easier life and I think the cash flow is much better in agricultural farming, especially when it comes to sheep. Cattle is different, which is more northern Namibia. But all of a sudden people aren't just shooting out all of their springbuck and oryx and hartebeest that are moving within those areas. And kudu even, I mean those farmers used to hunt kudu for meat for their workers. Huge beautiful kudu trophy bulls which are

[Dani]

what, worth what in the million?

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

Which is worth

[Dani]

8,000?

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

Well, we sell it for almost US$4,000, but that's only the kudu. Then you still have to pay a daily rate of 10 days. So you, it's easily on, you know, 15, 20,000 US dollars worth. They would, they would shoot it for, for meat for their workers. Yeah, no they don't because they know that, you know, we've got hunters around, we all go and hunt and we, we pay them 50 of our trophy fee plus they keep the meat or we buy the meat from them.

[Dani]

In the private land system in Namibia, you don't have any government fees or trophy fees or anything like that to the government. Right. But you do have the game 8 game animal products trust fund or something like that.

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

What is trust fund?

[Dani]

Trust fund, that is money that's derived from operators and outfitters in conservancy areas. Right.

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

And it's 100 model, but that's only from national parks, government owned land. So if you're in a concession area, all of that money goes towards the concession or the community. Nothing goes to the 100, nothing goes to the government. Ah, nothing. So the only revenue that goes towards government is if you have a national park area like Bobwata national park or Bushmanland Nakasanga. So those there's a percentage that goes to for the government, but most of it goes towards the community that lives.

[Dani]

The big black rhino fee that Corey Knowlton did back in the day, that all went straight into that game product.

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

That's why the gaming product trust fund doesn't have enough money. You know, if you look at the rhino, I mean last year when they delivered rhino at Galaqua, they asked me whether I would pay the transport for

[Dani]

it because they don't have the money.

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

They still not the money with. They're super reliant on that, on that hunting of the four or five black rhino each year.

[Dani]

And they still do it this year they still do it. They've still got four tags.

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

Every year they have the tags but this year they're not hunting any.

[Dani]

Why is that?

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

It's a conundrum. With the poaching being so high, the government decided to dehorn all the rhino. Now we've gotten to a point where those rhino that's gotten to the age where they can be hunted, that start to get aggressive, they don't have horns so they have to wait it out another 10 years. Yeah. So do you Dion, don't you Dion, do you keep five rhino per year's horns intact? You know, how do you do that? So, but not only that, the government in Namibia is really very good at making sure that the right animal is being ear tagged to be hunted. And if they're not there, they're not going to sell it.

[Dani]

Yeah.

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

And they don't just give out five random black rhinos.

[Dani]

What else goes into the game products trust fund in terms of money? Are the ecotourism operators paying into it that are in the national parks?

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

I don't know. I must look at it. I can't answer you Moxie Louis know a lot about that. She sent me the books of it one year. The financials and exactly how it's being. You know. Yeah. And what goes towards which species and why. So. But obviously the biggest income that goes into it is the sale of those black rhinos.

[Dani]

Oh, 100. 100.

[Chase]

So at

[Dani]

what. Talk to me. Think about other things that you guys are doing at Veronica and Collaqua for. Do you have anything else from a community perspective and human person perspective or. I know you. You do about like. Let's just talk about the wildlife. Let's just start there. We just finished talking about rhinos. You just moved.

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

Yeah, we just.

[Dani]

How many rhinos?

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

We moved eight rhinos to Veronica. We, we colored, I think 16, 14 or 16. And we did that because we've gotten to a point where our ratio of rhino was, was just getting too high. The, the risk for poaching was just too high. It's just too easy. You'll find rhino quite regularly when you walk around.

[Dani]

Gotcha.

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

And there's a. There's white and black rhino different habitats. The black rhino only moves in the thick bushed areas. White rhino everywhere. And we just knew that if we didn't do something now to move some of the white rhino to Veronica and Veronica is huge. There's no white rhino. There's only black rhino at Veronica. So we just wanted to reduce the risk. We collared some rhino that we now use with Earth Ranger. I must say they really.

[Dani]

System. Right.

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

Lorawan system and Earth Ranger support. So we can, we can at least monitor whether. And it's a nice system. We're still developing it. But you can, you can see when a rhino starts to run, the heart rate goes up very high, very quickly. So the tracking is never a thing for us. We don't want to collar the rhinos because we want to track them. It's a preemptive. Firstly, the community knows these rhinos are being monitored much more seriously than just an APU team. So it's a message that you send out, but it's also a system where you can preempt a poaching incident.

[Dani]

And that rhino moving, that, you know, it increasing its speed for a long period of time is almost like, oh, something's pushing it.

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

Oh, exactly. And all of a sudden movement or a heart rate going up, you know that these poachers in the area. So you can just be much more proactive in that type of monitoring than

[Dani]

you got any Other conservation science projects that you're working on?

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

Not necessarily. When I was involved in narfa, we did a lot of, you know, I tried to push a lot of the economy. We did a lot of the leopard and cheetah enforcing, you know, skin samples, because I really believe that hunters are the first line in defense when it comes to science. We've got all of that knowledge, so there's not a national specific scientific study that's going on. But we work a lot with Julius Finessy from the Giraffe Foundation. He will come and monitor and do DNA testing on giraffe. We'll always be the ones putting up our hand for any scientific studies or conservation things. We have a lot of people that will come and deliver cheetah with us in our areas, because cheetahs are one thing that gets eradicated very fast by

[Dani]

livestock farmers, big human wildlife conflict, type of cheater. How many cheetahs do you think are taken in Namibia annually? 200, 300?

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

More. More.

[Rob]

Wow.

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

And then added on to that, your leopard population in Namibia is really going up very, very fast. And unfortunately, that's a conflict for cheetah as well.

[Dani]

For sure.

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

So I can see it. I mean, 10 years ago, we would see cheetah at least once every two weeks. Herds or groups of cheetah. Now every three, four months, if you're lucky.

[Dani]

Oh, really?

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

Yeah. So, you know, the Cheetah Foundation, Nanku said there's a lot of people that would phone us and say, can we come and relocate? There was farmers that caught cheetah or they killed the mother, blah, blah, blah. Can they relocate it to our area? So we, we. I like doing that because, yeah, we're not going to that. But value is important. You know, a lot of people will hunt jackal because it's an automatic problem animal. You know, I don't believe in that. There's value in each of those lives. So we part of that. And then obviously we monitor a lot. So we've got a lot of camera traps on our leopard. It's nice to see when females are coming in, how many cubs were born, which areas they walk. And again, it's those. It's like we said yesterday, you don't realize what you're actually doing contributes towards science or economy or the community that you feed or it's such a normal thing to do, you know, but monitoring wildlife, you know, on a continuous basis, it's very important, but you don't realize that you're actually doing it. So if you put all of that through to signs and put it on paper. There's a lot of signs that goes into it. It's chase. But my husband's incredible with, with putting numbers together and, and planning and managing areas in the beginning of the year, purely because he's in the felt every single day. He sees what's going on around him.

[Dani]

Yeah, you can't. You can't put a price on, like, that anecdotal evidence. Right. Of just being in the field constantly. You may not have the exact numbers, but you're like, hey, we've got too many springbok you might do. You do surveys every year?

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

Yes, we do. But also it's one thing of doing a study for a month or for six months versus 20 years or being on the ground. Yeah, being on the ground.

[Dani]

Amazing. Yeah, amazing. Anything else that you've missed that you do, you must do a lot. And you've obviously missed a bunch of.

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

No, I obviously missed a bunch. And we, you know, for me, it's about the community. It's about the people around us, you know, first and foremost. Then it's because of that the business is working and it's going well and we've got these beautiful areas and the animals are healthy and obviously that. And the rain. The rain gives us hope. So if it rains, everybody's happy. Yeah, we had some good rains. So the community that we serve, you know, the people that I grew up with on the farm are still there and work for us.

[Dani]

And so did your parents own this farm before you?

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

Yes. Ah. And to see people better themselves, empowering people, you know, instead of just being a somebody that works the fences. Now he's a professional hunter, one of the best in Namibia. Gets the same salary as any other professional hunter. That makes me happy, know that. That empowerment, but also becoming a protectorant of the land.

[Dani]

And this is a local Namibian professional hunter.

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

We've got four of them now. Amazing.

[Dani]

Cool.

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

And it's not easy in Namibia to become a professional hunter, especially for the previously disadvantaged communities. You know, they usually, they stop at master hunting guide or. Or hunting guide, but they are all professional hunters, you know, and they started as farm workers, but they are exceptional skill level. They. So to see that. Then some of my other workers, Natasha, Anna, Marcus, Samuel, so many people that started also as cleaners, now they're head chefs. And everybody wants to steal them because Aru makes the best food in the world, you know, and they've been trained for so many years. They've got all those recipes. They. And I work very Closely with them in the, in the food sector. But they, you know, they get massively paid salaries if you compare it to anybody else, especially farm workers. And I love that. I love people working towards something like that. Give them the opportunity and they make it happen.

[Dani]

Yeah. Empowering them and giving them a future and sort of a lane like, hey, this. You can go there if you want.

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

Yeah. Owning a house, sending their children to university, being able to get a loan from the bank. I mean, those things are. For us it's simple, normal things. For them it isn't. And it's not fair. They should be able to walk into a bank and get a loan because they've got a profession. So to us, that community thing is quite important. And that is one thing that I'm very proud of at Aru is having that big family where you can see moving forward instead of just stagnating.

[Dani]

Does Chasebert still let you hunt? You're one. You're the only. Are you still the only female professional hunter in Namibia?

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

No, there's two, but I was the first and now there's two. Isabelle, but she doesn't hunt anymore. Yeah, she's.

[Dani]

Do they. Does casebirds still let you hunt?

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

He does. Okay. I'm so lucky.

[Dani]

Last question. What does Aru stand for? I don't think I've ever asked you. Like, why. Why is it Aru? Why is it called Aru?

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

When we built the first lodge at Veronica, it's right on top of a dune. And it's such a beautiful area because you've got a 360 degree view from the dune. And we used to do picnics up there at the dune. And we decided we're going to build a lodge right there. And at that spot there's this massive amount of Aru trees, which is weird, but it's only there on that dune, this incredible amount of Aru trees. And we decided we're going to build the lodge right in between all those Aru trees. And Aru is in English, it's a worm cure tree. It's the Wyrm Rindenbaum. So the Bushmen take the bark and they make a tease. They use it against worms. But it's also a sign of water. And it's just a beautiful tree, the Aru tree. And that's branching out.

[Dani]

Branching out. Cool story. Well, thank you, man. I appreciate you taking some time out of your day telling us a little bit more about you and Aru and the benefits that come from hunting with you guys and. Yeah, where can they find more information. Aru aru gamelodgers.com arugamelodges.com and you've got Instagram, obviously.

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

Aru Safaris and on Facebook also Ara Game Lodges.

[Dani]

Perfect. Thanks, Dani.

[Deneen van der Westhausen]

Thanks Robs.

[Dani]

Well, that's it for today. Appreciate you listening as always. Leave a review, share it with your

[Chase]

friends, and most importantly, do what's right

[Dani]

to convey the truth around hunting.