Roundup 152 || Cheetah Project Update, Black Bears + Donuts, And More

Summary

Blood Origins Roundup 152: Cheetah Project Update, Black Bears + Donuts, And More

Release Date: May 21, 2025

Introduction

In the latest episode of Blood Origins Roundup, hosts Ashley and Mike Axelrod delve into significant developments in the hunting and conservation landscape. Covering updates from the Department of the Interior, black bear harvest programs, and the ongoing Mozambique Cheetah relocation project, this episode offers listeners a comprehensive overview of current initiatives aimed at balancing hunting practices with conservation efforts.

Department of the Interior Announces Expansion of Hunting and Fishing on National Wildlife Refuges

One of the episode's highlights is the announcement from the Department of the Interior regarding the major expansion of hunting and fishing opportunities on national wildlife refuges across the United States.

Ashley [15:18]: “He has announced 42 new proposed hunting opportunities across 87,000 acres within the national wildlife refuges.”

Mike Axelrod emphasizes the significance of this move, noting that it represents a substantial increase in hunting areas compared to the previous administration.

Mike Axelrod [15:19]: “That's a lot in the federal land system. It's like... Isn't that like a 1% increase?”

Ashley clarifies that while the total acreage might seem modest, the number of hunting areas will be quintupled, providing hunters with more accessible public hunting opportunities.

Ashley [15:24]: “It's going to quintuple the number of stations that will be open to hunting from the last administration.”

The hosts discuss specific states benefiting from this expansion, including Alabama, California, Idaho, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Montana, North Carolina, Texas, and Washington, fostering excitement among hunters for new public hunting grounds.

Black Bears Harvest Programs: Legislative Developments and Ethical Considerations

A substantial portion of the conversation centers on black bear hunting regulations, particularly focusing on legislative changes in Connecticut and Florida, as well as Louisiana's evolving bear management strategies.

Connecticut's Potential Bear Hunting Season

Ashley brings attention to Connecticut's Senate approval of a bill that could pave the way for a regulated black bear hunting season, contingent upon the governor's assessment of bear-related threats.

Ashley [22:26]: “So if you live in or around Connecticut and you would like to see science prevail up there because they have apparently a very healthy black bear population, then now's the time to call your members.”

Mike examines the legislative nuances, highlighting that the bill focuses on public safety rather than introducing a trophy hunt, aiming to responsibly manage bear populations.

Mike Axelrod [24:10]: “For the record, the bill was not about a trophy hunt. It was about public safety that is presently in danger because of our inaction.”

Florida's Public Listening Sessions

Florida is another focal point, with the state conducting public listening sessions to finalize its bear harvest management plan. The discussion hints at an optimistic outlook, with no major obstacles reported from these sessions.

Ashley [25:04]: “Florida's having another public listening session this week.”

Louisiana's Bear Management and Baiting Practices

Louisiana's second bear hunting season introduces a lottery system to better regulate the number of bears harvested. The state has increased the number of available tags and extended baiting periods to ensure selective hunting practices.

Mike Axelrod [27:00]: “They are increasing the number of bears allowed to be taken. They're still going to operate on the number of tags and that's it.”

Ashley raises ethical concerns about baiting practices, questioning whether attracting bears with donuts and other human foods might inadvertently increase human-wildlife conflicts.

Ashley [32:01]: “I just think that if the science shows that the data is there to support the harvest and to support hunting, I don't think you should have to lump a bunch of donuts in your backyard to draw the bears to you to have to hunt them.”

Mike defends the baiting strategy as a short-term measure to achieve specific hunting goals without long-term negative impacts.

Mike Axelrod [31:53]: “But there may be incidences where your female percentage skews out.”

The conversation underscores the balance between effective wildlife management and maintaining ethical hunting standards, reflecting the organization's commitment to responsible conservation.

Mozambique Cheetah Relocation Project: Progress and Challenges

Shifting focus to international conservation efforts, Mike provides an update on the Mozambique Cheetah relocation project. The initiative aims to bolster cheetah populations in Africa through strategic relocations, despite facing logistical and financial hurdles.

Mike Axelrod [04:45]: “For the final move of the year for our cheetahs... we have to get another import permit issued from Mozambique to Royburg.”

Ashley expresses concern over the costs associated with relocating injured cheetahs, highlighting the financial commitment required to ensure their successful transfer and integration into new habitats.

Ashley [05:49]: “Good grief. But, yeah, almost to the end.”

The hosts discuss the importance of ensuring that relocated cheetahs can establish stable home ranges and contribute to population growth, emphasizing the project's long-term conservation goals.

Mike Axelrod [07:23]: “Hopefully they establish home ranges very quickly... and make some cheetah cubs.”

Listener Engagement and Conservation Initiatives

Throughout the episode, Blood Origins encourages listener participation in conservation efforts. The organization seeks conservation stories and wishes from the community, offering support through equipment donations to enhance research and habitat management.

Ashley [11:59]: “Bushnell is eager to help you get set up for conservation success. Send us your conservation story...”

Closing Remarks

In wrapping up the episode, Ashley and Mike reiterate their commitment to conveying the truth about hunting and its role in conservation. They invite listeners to engage with Blood Origins, support ongoing projects, and contribute to shaping future conservation policies.

Mike Axelrod [49:37]: “We appreciate you listening. Leave a review, share it with your friends, and most importantly, do what's right to convey the truth around.”

Conclusion

Blood Origins Roundup 152 effectively bridges the gap between hunting and conservation, providing insightful updates on legislative changes, ethical hunting practices, and international conservation projects. Through engaging discussions and actionable insights, the episode underscores the organization's mission to foster a more informed and responsible hunting community committed to global conservation efforts.

Transcript

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[Ashley]

Hi guys, Ashley here. Thanks for joining us on this week's Blood Origins Roundup where Robbie and I discuss news of the week in the hunting world. This week we talk about some exciting news out of the Department of Interior where they announced major expansion of Hun hunting and fishing opportunities on national wildlife refuges across the United States. We also talk all things bears and which states are likely to have a harvest program and which states are not going to see one. And we give an update on the Mozambique Cheetah relocation project going on in Africa. So thanks for tuning in. We sure appreciate it.

[Mike Axelrod]

So there's a reason why I started Blood Origins and that reason is simple is that I wanted to convey the truth about hunting.

[Robert Arrington]

It brings awareness to non hunters that.

[Mike Axelrod]

It'S more than just killing animals.

[Ashley]

How do I start it? Brittany My name. Does my hair look okay?

[Mike Axelrod]

My name is Mike Axelrod. Start again. Yeah, I hated it too. Braxton, you said something in the car to me. You said that you were living on borrowed time. There's a perception around who hunters are, what we're supposed to be. And a feminist that works for a non profit that is a hunter that has only eaten wild game for the last 20 years is likely not the thing that people think about when to comes it comes to a hunter.

[Ashley]

You have been sniffing a lot.

[Mike Axelrod]

I have been sniveling for five Days. I've got to figure out what this is. I don't think it's a cold. I don't think it's a flu virus. I think it's just a little bit of too much allergies. It was just pumping wind in Colorado, pumping pollen everywhere. So a lot of people were sniffling where I was.

[Ashley]

So sniveling is usually like a crybaby kind of thing versus sniffing is like, you know, sniffing like you did you.

[Mike Axelrod]

Say I was sniveling?

[Ashley]

You said you were sniveling.

[Mike Axelrod]

Okay, I have a runny nose. Let's call it that. A runny nose. So I need to get my typical injection infusion this week. I'm not going to get my B12 this week. Do you want to know why?

[Ashley]

Why?

[Mike Axelrod]

I got my blood work done, and my B12 came back at 2,000 nanograms per milliliter or liter, whatever it is. Extremely high.

[Ashley]

Can you have too much B. Can you have too much B12?

[Mike Axelrod]

It's supposedly you can.

[Ashley]

Well, I think you actually can. And this may be a little bit TMI. You know, I started getting the B12 shots, and my TC turned bright fluorescent yellow. Well, mine does not do that, being too much.

[Mike Axelrod]

Mine does. Mine does not do that. But I had my infusion, like, three weeks before I did my blood test. So this week I will not be doing B12. I'll be doing the typical glutathione, zinc, vitamin C, zinc before traveling. And zinc.

[Ashley]

Yeah, it's hard to get enough zinc without eating red meat.

[Mike Axelrod]

So I'm doing that, and then I'll fly to South Africa on Saturday.

[Ashley]

All right.

[Mike Axelrod]

For the final, final, final move of the year for our cheetahs. So we've got. We've got five more cheetahs to move, which will take us to 17. We are only going to move four. The fifth one is. It's just a lot of. It's not a problem child. Well, he is my problem child because he broke his leg in the Boma, and we had to put a plate and screws into a cheetah's leg. It's part of the story, though. So we have to move him. We're going to move him, but we just don't have him on one of the export permits out of. Out of Gauteng, which is a province in South Africa. And so we have to get another import permit issued from Mozambique to Royburg, which is where he is, to then get him exported.

[Ashley]

So he's going to be the last one all by himself.

[Mike Axelrod]

Probably like in three months time.

[Ashley]

Sounds expensive.

[Mike Axelrod]

Very expensive, yeah. Feeding one cheetah. And I think he's already cost me four and a half thousand dollars in terms of just surgery on the cheetah.

[Ashley]

Good grief. But, yeah, almost to the end.

[Mike Axelrod]

Maybe he'll find his brother.

[Ashley]

How are they all doing?

[Mike Axelrod]

Keep his brother in the boma and wait for him. So we're going to move forward. We're supposed to get another. We're. The fifth one was supposed to be a female, so The Amakala male, that is, who broke his leg, is our 18th. We're supposed to get 19th. We're supposed to get three males and two females for dinner. King. They cannot locate one of the females. So we've only got three. Three males and one female. So we've got some problems. We've got a lot of males, which is also a little problematic. But it is what it is. Obviously, females are very lucrative and people want females because they make pup, they make babies.

[Ashley]

Mm.

[Mike Axelrod]

And so we've gotta make a plan in the next 18 months of how we're gonna supplement our population, where we're gonna get females. Cause we've got, I think, 60% males, 40% females, or even 70% male, 30% females.

[Ashley]

I mean, it could work if they start breeding immediately.

[Mike Axelrod]

Yeah, we'll see. Hopefully we. Hopefully they do. Right? Hopefully they release. They establish home ranges very quickly. They don't scatter amongst the landscape and we have to go collect them on a mountain range or mountaintop somewhere. And hopefully then they settle down and the males interact with the females and make some cheetah cubs and they'll be amazing.

[Ashley]

Are they collared? Is that how they're being monitored right now?

[Mike Axelrod]

We have enough collars for everybody. So we have collars on every single cheetah. What we are going to do, though, is, for instance, coalitions. So we have a male coalition of three and I think another male coalition of two. And so our collars are both satellite and VHF collars, which means you can do the traditional beeping, you know, boop, boop, boop. How Anthony catches his black bears, it's through vhf. He may have a satellite component to it, I don't know. And then the satellite will ping. You can make it ping however many times a day you can ping it. So in a coalition, we will have one male pinging daily and the two other males will ping weekly because we'll know they'll be together.

[Ashley]

Okay.

[Mike Axelrod]

And then we will. They'll obviously do some VHF tracking of all the cheaters and Then we can switch it so we can track like the mail. One week, that mail that was pinging daily can switch to the other male, and then so on and so forth. So then you're just extending the battery life of those collars as long as you possibly can. Look, guys, I'm a hunter, right? And when I go hunting, I like to figure out how to get my trophies back home as expeditiously as possible. Well, you don't have to look much further than Safari Specialty Importers. We know that trophy importation can be quite a headache. That's why Safari specialty importer strives to make it as easy and hassle free as possible. They have access to a bonded warehouse. You won't be charged storage fees and you get a dedicated team that's readily available and will update you at every step in the process. They'll even go one step further. Safari Specialty importers is working with us at Blood Origins and they are going to donate $100 from every shipment that they work with to conservation projects that include anti poaching, community development and wildlife conservation. At the end of the day, choose to spend your money with a team that's dedicated to you and is dedicated to helping show how hunting is a great conservation model. Hassle free logistics, fuel and conservation go with Safari Specialty importers. Did you know that in 42 states it is 100% legal to buy a suppressor and protect your hearing? Silencer Central pioneered the simplified silencer buying process. It allows you to buy a suppressor online or over the phone. You go through all the paperwork with a certified expert and that suppressor ships directly to your front door. I don't even believe it, but I've done it and it's come to my door. You can buy a suppressor and have it shipped to to you. They offer the best in service, a suppressor expert to make sure you get the suppressor you want. And from there they take care of everything. They take care of the paperwork, the applications to the atf. They even set up a free trust if you want one. And if you don't have the money, put down an interest free payment plan. It's incredible. You get access to your own customer portal online. It tracks your progress. So why not go get started today? Go to silence essential.com or call 866-8118 6536 and with today's fast approval times, you're actually going to be shocked at how quickly your suppressor arrives at your door. Bushnell has been a longtime supporter of blood origins. And in keeping with the spirit of our collaboration, we've come up with an amazing idea. Bushnell is eager to help you get set up for conservation success. That's right. They want to help you. The conservation and research community is dominated by good people doing good things and investing significant time and effort for the benefit of habitat and the species. So what do you need to do? Pretty simple. Send us your conservation story and. Or your conservation wish. Could be managing whitetails, could be understanding your environment or species or something else related to conservation. What would you be able to do if you had a great trail camera setup? We will select the best story every other month and send you a camera bundle. Cell camera, normal SD camera, SD cards, as well as optics. Everything you need to get set up for success. I can't wait to see what you submit. You can email [e-mail] DM US. Message us whatever you want. We are not hard to find. Good luck.

[Ashley]

Right, Right. So cool. So cool.

[Mike Axelrod]

So, yeah, exciting.

[Ashley]

Now we just need a little video cam like the eagle cam, so we can monitor.

[Mike Axelrod]

Well, it would be difficult because they don't nest like an eagle to us, but we should have like a bow.

[Ashley]

Maybe a GoPro, whatever.

[Mike Axelrod]

Yeah. You know, strapped to them with a satellite release. Yeah, no, yeah, next.

[Ashley]

Next phase, right?

[Mike Axelrod]

Yeah, next phase. Next phase. You know, maybe, I don't know, a boma cam, but that's so expensive, man. And the cheaters aren't going to be in the bomas all the time. So, um. So yeah, it's, it's exciting. It's an exciting day because I missed the first cheetah relocation. That was so crazy. And now we're doing the second one. Um, so I'll be there. It should be logistically less challenging, which is awesome. And also we've got some donors going along with us on this one.

[Ashley]

Fun, fun.

[Mike Axelrod]

They're going to get the full monty.

[Ashley]

Those are the kind of things you get to do if you become a Blood Origins donor.

[Mike Axelrod]

A big one. Not a dollar five a month. Not a five dollar a month donor.

[Ashley]

Right? Yeah. No, if you're levels. Levels of fun.

[Mike Axelrod]

If you've got 50,000 sitting aside somewhere, send us a text message 601-790-607 and go, hey, I'd love to be a part of that cheetah project. And I've got just 50,000 lying around.

[Ashley]

Rhino dehorny, any of that kind of.

[Mike Axelrod]

Stuff, pangolin tracking, whatever you want. We can accommodate you if you're willing to support Us in a big way.

[Ashley]

Yes. Yes. Okay. Last week we were very doom and gloom.

[Mike Axelrod]

Geez, I don't know.

[Ashley]

We were. There was a lot of bad news. And I feel like this week there is better news coming out.

[Mike Axelrod]

I mean, you know, did you watch that video? Just to pause you. Did you watch that video of the Department of the Interior? What's the guy? Scott Bergdam, I think is his name, getting just hazed. Hazed, Hammered. And he went to. Why would you. This is what's stupid. Like, why would you go visit a national park and then decide to take questions from a. The people? It's almost like a little press conference at the national park, and they're like, how many people are you going to fire this week? You've already fired a bunch. Do you really care about them? And the dude literally was deer in the headlights.

[Ashley]

I know. He froze. He froze. But. But here's the thing. Like, he has actually issued some really phenomenal orders for hunting and fishing, and the media is not picking up on it. And of course, that's not that surprising because bad news sells people.

[Mike Axelrod]

That's true.

[Ashley]

And you know what? We fall into the trap, too. I mean, we're like, oh, this came out. Oh, this is so bad. And we struggle to find the really good stories, too. And, you know, we just. We hear about good things and we kind of pass them over. And so I do want to highlight. And this is something that he has done, Secretary Burgum. He has announced 42 new proposed hunting opportunities across 87,000 acres within the national wildlife.

[Mike Axelrod]

How many acres?

[Ashley]

87,000. So new acres will be small. 87,000.

[Mike Axelrod]

That's a lot in the federal land system. It's like. Isn't that like a 1% increase?

[Ashley]

It's going to quintuple the number of stations that will be open to hunting from the last administration. So five times the number of hunting areas will be open areas? Yes.

[Mike Axelrod]

Not acreage.

[Ashley]

No, it's this. So the number of areas will be quintupled, and the acreage is 87,000. 87,000 is not chump change, you know, in terms of areas. I mean, there's, you know, national wildlife refuges that are not open. There are some that are open. Like, it's, you know.

[Mike Axelrod]

Is it all tied to the National Wildlife Refuge System?

[Ashley]

Well, that's what the. That's what the National Park Service manages. Yes, that's what the Department of Interior manages.

[Mike Axelrod]

And so the Park Service manages state national parks.

[Ashley]

We're not talking about state parks. We're Talking about national wildlife refugees. These are national wildlife refuges and national fish hatchery system.

[Mike Axelrod]

Ah, cool. Because those are the typically. Because the reason it's so. I think you're right. It is. That is quite good news. Because typically there's no hunting allowed at all on wildlife refuges. Typically, like in Mississippi, you don't get to hunt any of the national wildlife refuges for ducks.

[Ashley]

You do.

[Mike Axelrod]

You do.

[Ashley]

Yeah, you do in some. I mean, like, for instance, there's one down outside of Natchez that's a great hunting national wildlife refuge. St. Catharines. St. Catherine's Creek is a national wildlife refuge that has hunting access. And I mean, people line up, they camp all night long. And so, yes, there are those that are. Have public access.

[Mike Axelrod]

Okay.

[Ashley]

And so there are some that do and some that don't.

[Mike Axelrod]

Catherine Creek National Wildlife Refuge is one of the largest and most successful public hunting areas in southwest Mississippi.

[Ashley]

Yeah, I think you're thinking of national parks. You don't.

[Mike Axelrod]

No, I think I keep. No, you know what? Because this is what I. I'm. I'm thinking is every time I'm. I'm hunting on piece of private ground, and I remember going to hunt in the delta. Okay, two things here. I'll give you two examples. The first example will be the one that I introduced myself to you through, which is Mahana. Right. In which you can't hunt. Oh, no, no. Manna was the public. Sorry. Sorry. Manna was public. There's a private land. The guys couldn't hunt. The other place was. I remember hunting with Brad Young at his duck hunting place somewhere in the delta of Mississippi, and it bordered a national wildlife refuge. And there was no hunting allowed on that national wildlife refuge.

[Ashley]

Okay.

[Mike Axelrod]

It was that classic white sign that you see with the blue ducks that said Federal National Wildlife Refuge sign. You know?

[Ashley]

Right.

[Mike Axelrod]

I guess I've always assumed, okay, that's National Wildlife refuge, I. E. No hunting. But obviously, some wildlife refuges allow hunting, have hunting seasons, whether open to the public or draw hunting only.

[Ashley]

Yes, yes. And so here's the deal with the park services. Of the 423 units managed by the National Park Service, hunting is only authorized in 76 units.

[Mike Axelrod]

Oh, okay.

[Ashley]

So that's the situation with. And there's. There's kind of confusing between what's a national park and what's a national wildlife refuge.

[Mike Axelrod]

Well, the national park belongs to the Park Service.

[Ashley]

But this. They're both under the.

[Mike Axelrod]

And they're both under DOI Correct, correct. But two different systems. National Wildlife Refuge system belongs To US Fish and Wildlife Service.

[Ashley]

They run it. I mean, yeah, belongs is, you know, loose. I mean, it's all, you know, the federal government. But, you know, I just want to highlight, I mean, so these states, the stations that they're opening up under, if you're located in one of these, you can be excited because you have some new hunting opportunities coming.

[Mike Axelrod]

Did they list them out? Did they list areas out? Cool.

[Ashley]

Alabama, California, Idaho, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Montana, North Carolina, Texas and Washington. So you guys have some new public hunting opportunities coming your way. So that is exciting. That's exciting. So there are 400. As of this month, hunting is permitted on 401 national wildlife refuges and 36 wetland management districts. So 401. So let's see how. Let me wonder if.

[Mike Axelrod]

Here's a question for you, and I know you don't know the answer, so I'll put it to our audience in which you can Google if you know the answer. 601-790-0607. How many of those natural wildlife refuges can you hunt black bears on?

[Ashley]

Hmm. That's an interesting question. Okay, so I do my guts.

[Mike Axelrod]

Zero.

[Ashley]

Okay, so you can hunt on 401 out of 573 National Wildlife Refuges.

[Mike Axelrod]

Oh, okay, so like 75%. Yeah, 80%. That's awesome. Okay, so much for me thinking you got onto National Wildlife Refuge.

[Ashley]

Well, we'll give you a pass since you are foreign. Yes.

[Mike Axelrod]

Ish. Foreign. Ish.

[Ashley]

I was looking for the right word.

[Midway USA]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mike Axelrod]

Foreign, Ish. Or yeah, if you know, if you can hunt a black bear on a national wildlife refuge, I'd be super interested to know because again, if I'm so wrong on hunting a national wildlife refuge, which is clearly I was by 75%. Maybe I'm completely wrong about hunting bears on National Wildlife Refuge because I think it's zero.

[Ashley]

I think you're probably wrong.

[Mike Axelrod]

Okay, I'm going to Google it. Let's see what Google says.

[Ashley]

Okay, hold on.

[Mike Axelrod]

Can you hunt black bears on. There we go.

[Ashley]

I mean, surely, surely you can in Alaska.

[Mike Axelrod]

Okay, here it goes. Yes, you can hunt black bears on many national wildlife refuges. Whoa. But it's important to check the specific regulations for each refuge. Hunting is allowed on 400. You got that? 436 units of the National Wildlife Refuge.

[Ashley]

Okay, for details, it says to consult Fish and Wildlife Service.

[Mike Axelrod]

Okay. Huh. We'll have to look that up.

[Ashley]

In other black bear news, yes, Connecticut may be about to get a season.

[Mike Axelrod]

Could not hunt any black bears at all.

[Ashley]

They don't right now. But that I think is probably about to change because the Senate approved this past Thursday 34 to 2. So it was not a narrow margin.

[Mike Axelrod]

43 to 2.

[Ashley]

34 to 2. Jeez. They have approved this bill by co authored by the chairman of the Environment Committee to allow the governor in the deep to determine whether bear encounters with humans, livestock and pets have reached the point of a threat and then they can develop plans for a hunting season. So apparently there has been a big push for this and then these outside organizations have come in and really pressure lawmakers and they're just at the point where they're done. So it goes to the House of Representatives now. And so if you live in or around Connecticut and you would like to see science prevail up there because they have apparently a very healthy black bear population, then now's the time to call your members.

[Mike Axelrod]

So I'm looking at an article here by the CT Mirror, which is, I guess the Connecticut Mirror, published March 28th of 2025. So a month and a half ago, lawmakers pull back proposal to allow bear hunting in Connecticut. New version of SB 1523. That's the Senate bill you've been looking at. Right. Strips out language establishing a regulated seasonal bear hunt. So I guess they tried to push a hunt to start with, but now it is, to your point, tied to understanding conflict and whether or not a hunt is needed for that conflict is what you said. Right.

[Ashley]

Basically, this makes it a lot easier.

[Mike Axelrod]

Yeah. For the record, the bill was not about a trophy hunt. It was about public safety that is presently in danger because of our inaction. Last time, legislation was seriously considered to allow a hunt in 2023. Serious. It was similarly amended by the Environment Committee to remove hunting provisions. So Those rules in 2023 allowed farmers to kill 15 bears last year, according to the Department of Environment and Protection. What's the DEEP stand for? Interesting. Department of Energy and Environmental Protection.

[Ashley]

It is. This bill will allow deep. It's basically their version of the state EPA and the governor to establish the bear hunting season.

[Mike Axelrod]

Okay, well, good stuff. So Connecticut's moving forward. Florida.

[Ashley]

Florida's having another public listening session this week.

[Mike Axelrod]

Actually, I think one of those public listings that's. Anybody in the. Anybody can chime in.

[Ashley]

Yeah. They've put forward their proposal, which I believe would start in December for their new harvest season. And this is just them presenting the plan to the public. So.

[Mike Axelrod]

Oh, because the commission to. As a reminder to everyone, the commission told the fwc, go back and build a management plan that Includes hunting for us. And now they're presenting that out to everyone.

[Ashley]

Yeah. So they came out with their plan and now they're in these public sessions. And so I mean right now it looks like all systems are a go. So that's some good news.

[Mike Axelrod]

Have we heard anything that has come out of the public sessions? Because I haven't seen any like terrible news.

[Ashley]

I mean I haven't seen any pictures that are people protesting them a few years ago. I'm sure they have them. Yeah, it's just not. They haven't made the news quite as much as they did a few years ago, so.

[Mike Axelrod]

Oh. And so keeping on the bear theme, I was, where I was in Colorado, I listened to John Hanks from the state of Louisiana give a bear presentation. And the state of Louisiana is increasing. This is the second season for bears. They've now got the lottery system in place so they don't have much. They don't have to worry about time windows or whatnot. They are increasing the number of bears allowed to be taken. They're still going to operate on the. We're issuing this many tags and that's it. It's not a quota based system which I hope Florida does by the way, when they do put their management plan out. Have we seen it by the way? Sorry to go back to Florida.

[Ashley]

We have, we have. We, we talked about it on one of the roundups where we had guests.

[Mike Axelrod]

I wish, I hope they. And does it. Are they doing a quota based system or they're doing a tag based system?

[Ashley]

I think they're doing a tag based system.

[Mike Axelrod]

Okay, that's to me that's the way to go. Especially if you're going to have a learn, you know, small number of bears to be taken. But Louisiana, second season, 24 tags available. If you remember last year they only had 10 tags plus one which was the governor's tag. This year it's 24 tags plus the governor's tag. So I think 25 tags, 15 tags in zone one, which is the tensile parish area which is up at the top or I think it's zone four. One of it's the, it's the Mississippi Delta tensile.

[Ashley]

Is that by the river?

[Mike Axelrod]

Yeah, I can't remember the actual number. I think it's zone four actually. And then they're actually opening two other zones. Zone one which is on the coast, huge zone on the coast and zone two which is up. I think it's the, they call it the, the Rippery or something like that. It's the the connecting population, I think those two will have five bears each or four bears each, respectively. They will also, because they've got more time, they will allow baiting of bears starting in November now running through the end of bear season, not just a week before the bear season starts. So people can. And they do what? The other thing that they do is they do a hunter education workshop. So everybody who pulls a tag in Louisiana has to go through a hunter education course before they get their tag given to them.

[Ashley]

Okay.

[Mike Axelrod]

And the hunter education course is run by John Hanks and Maria Davidson, who used to be the black bear carnivore ecologist of Louisiana is now with scif. And yeah, they harvested. John gave us the data. John said eight males and two females of their 10. And he said they never expected to have such a high proportion of males. That's why they did the hunter education course. Most often across the states. You're looking at 50, 50 or 60, 40 from a harvest perspective. But the hunters did very, very well and just were very super selective as best they can. And the two females that were taken were non lactating old females.

[Ashley]

Okay. So when you say they're going to allow baiting of bears, they're just, just like the same as every other animal. I mean, they're going to allow feeding stations.

[Mike Axelrod]

Yeah. So last year they allowed baiting, however, because. And this is actually very smart of them, because zone four, which is where the season one, that's where all the tensile wildlife, the Mississippi Delta zone where all the tags were last year, now 15 of the tags are in, is also a CWZD zone, which you're not allowed to bait in.

[Ashley]

Right.

[Mike Axelrod]

So you have to bait with things that deer will not eat. So it's donuts.

[Ashley]

So what I was gonna say, so what? Tin babies had several positives in tinsaw. Tinsel's right across the river from near where we went.

[Mike Axelrod]

Yeah.

[Ashley]

I'm like, what are they baiting with?

[Mike Axelrod]

Like donuts.

[Ashley]

But I was gonna say like a junk food.

[Mike Axelrod]

Yeah, donuts and chocolates and, you know, gummy bears and the stuff that you typically get, trail mix kind of stuff.

[Ashley]

Okay.

[Mike Axelrod]

Um, and, and the baiting, really, I.

[Ashley]

Mean, to me that's like doing everything we're not supposed to do with bears, like don't feed the wildlife. And we're literally like putting out human. Isn't that going to almost intentionally create human wildlife conflict?

[Mike Axelrod]

I would say yes. If it was a year long baiting season or three months or six months, it's very, very, very limited in terms of its time frame. And the whole reason for the baiting is to hit the tag targets, number one, in a very short period of time. So if you took the bait away, then your bear hunting season could be well, well extended for two, three months.

[Ashley]

What's wrong with that though? I mean, why not just have a non baited, just a longer bear season?

[Mike Axelrod]

There's lots of reasons. Hyperphasia is something that, you know is, is something a time of the year that you typically do want to hunt bears in, which is the time where they're gathering as many resources they possibly can. The problem is there's lots of bears at that time. The other thing is these guys really, really want you to take a male bear. They don't want females taken. And so when you've got a non baiting, if you, if you don't have baiting, you're going to be more opportunistic to the bear that comes in. So you're going to be less likely to be selective on the bear that you take. And so there may be incidences where your female percentage skews out.

[Ashley]

Basically the hunter's going to be so desperate to take a bear, he's going to take whatever he gets. But to me, that's hunting. I mean like, you got to be a smart hunter.

[Mike Axelrod]

Yes, I agree. If your population is big enough, if, if you fast forward the clock in Louisiana 10 years, that's exactly the scenario you want to be in. But right now, to have a hunting opportunity, baiting is a logical solution to taking the right bear out of the population that doesn't detrimentally affect hunter opportunity in the future.

[Ashley]

So basically they're allowing donut baiting right now, but hopefully they can phase that out. I just don't see that happening. But that's just my, you know, I have a lot of respect for those guys down there. I love them. But just personal philosophy is so what.

[Mike Axelrod]

Let me ask this question.

[Ashley]

Going up to the bear, just go out and hunt.

[Mike Axelrod]

Like what, what is the personal philosophy against baiting?

[Ashley]

I just think that if, if the science shows that the data is there to support the harvest and to support hunting, I don't think you should have to lump a bunch of donuts in your backyard to draw the bears to you to have to hunt them. Like I think that if it's there, look, we can either support it or we can't. And we're in a CWD zone up there. And so like if we can go out there and have a hunting season with bears and we've set the tags at the right limit, then the hunters, and especially, especially hunters who want to go hunt. Bears are sophisticated enough to be able to go hunt when and what they're supposed to hunt without having to pile up donuts and gummy bears.

[Mike Axelrod]

So if you were the, if you were the tag drawer, no baiting allowed, you had 10 days to hunt a bear. Well, one bear comes in.

[Ashley]

Look, I made the comment like, let's extend the season.

[Mike Axelrod]

Yeah, but then you've got, you've got issues with overlap with whitetail season and duck season, all kinds of things.

[Ashley]

All of our hunting seasons overlap. I mean, they almost all overlap each other. What's the problem with that?

[Mike Axelrod]

Well, okay, let's take overlap out then. How are you as the one that the person who drew out of 1 in 30,000 people, one bear comes in through your area that you've decided you think a bear is going to walk through and it's a small bear, you don't know if it's a male or a female because you don't have time to shoot it. You don't have time. You're just gonna, you know what, are you gonna pass on a beer or are you gonna shoot it?

[Ashley]

I mean, they're probably gonna shoot it. Me personally, I don't know. I mean, I'm, I'm probably not gonna be out there doing it. But like, that's my point.

[Mike Axelrod]

Like, but okay, okay, but that's my point. That's my point.

[Ashley]

But you're excusing stupidity.

[Mike Axelrod]

No, it's not stupidity. How's that stupidity? I mean, I've got my opportunity, I've got it.

[Ashley]

You can't tell. You're like, well, I don't know. It's a so tight. Maybe, maybe it's full grown, maybe it's not. That's like saying, oh, well, you know, I'm a turkey hunter and I can't tell whether it's a Jake or not.

[Mike Axelrod]

No, it's. See, this is why baiting is incredibly important. To tell the difference between a male and a female bear is very, very difficult.

[Ashley]

How are they going to tell? What, what's the difference between them being able to tell whether it's a male or a female or full grown or not, whether they've baited or not.

[Mike Axelrod]

I mean, like they are size differentials, there are head differences. And that all comes in the hunter education class.

[Ashley]

You can, they have to take that no matter what, right?

[Mike Axelrod]

Yes. But if you've got a fleeting chance of a bear coming across the meadow and it's walking. You're like, I don't. I can't really determine right now if it's a male or female. I don't know if I should pull the trigger. It's my only opportunity. I've been hunting for seven days. I pulled the trigger. It's a young female. And that happens eight times out of 10. That data that gets put into the model that predicts hunter opportunity next year and hunter opportunity will go down because you took too many bears and you took too many young bears.

[Ashley]

Well, they're not going to get in trouble for doing that. But also, I just don't understand.

[Mike Axelrod]

No, they're not going to get into trouble. It's, it's a.

[Ashley]

But how are they going to know it over a pile of donuts if they don't know it? Not over a pile of donuts, because.

[Mike Axelrod]

You have time on a pile of donuts to look through your binoculars and say, is this a big bear or not a big bear? Because you've got references. You've got a barrel, potentially.

[Ashley]

And you're saying that they're going to sit there and eat the donuts.

[Mike Axelrod]

100%. 100%. If you ask, if. I guarantee, if we ask the guys that took the bears in Louisiana, 10 of them, how many bears did they pass up? Number one, I think all of them passed up bears. Number two, how long did it take for them to decide that that was the bear that they were going to take? I guarantee you more than five seconds. Two minutes to five minutes.

[Ashley]

Not all pass up bears.

[Mike Axelrod]

I guarantee you they all passed up bears.

[Ashley]

I'm going to be down there next week and I will ask that question.

[Mike Axelrod]

Ask the question. Because to me, again, I hear you from your ethical stance about baiting and whatnot, but if you're being, if you need your hunters to be extremely selective on an animal that they are not very used to hunting. People have been hunting turkeys for 40 years, 50 years. This is the first season for black bears. This is the second season for black bears in Louisiana. You want them to have as much time as they possibly can to identify the bear, to say, okay, that is a big male bear. I'm gonna shoot it.

[Ashley]

Well, eastern turkeys are very elusive. They're hard to hunt and hard, I think, sometimes from far away to identify. That's just me. And plus, there's new hunters all the time. So look, you're thinking of it from a scientific perspective, Dr. Kroger, because you want there to be the right bears and the right statistics to support a Larger harvest the next year.

[Mike Axelrod]

Correct.

[Ashley]

I'm thinking at it from a purely just like ethical, free chase hunting standpoint.

[Mike Axelrod]

Both are.

[Ashley]

And you're a male and I'm a female.

[Mike Axelrod]

And I will say this, both viewpoints are extremely valid.

[Ashley]

Right. I look, I see yours. I see yours.

[Mike Axelrod]

I see yours too. Good.

[Ashley]

And I want full footage of you hunting a bear over a pile of donuts. Never.

[Mike Axelrod]

Then I will do it. I will do it.

[Ashley]

I know you will do it.

[Mike Axelrod]

And here's what I will do. I. Because Maine. I've hunted in Maine over a bait bag.

[Ashley]

What was in your bag?

[Mike Axelrod]

Trail mix and one of those Sour Patch Kids. And I actually ate some of it. Like I took a bit in the stand with me. But I'll tell you this. I sat there for 80 hours. I've sat two seasons for 80 hours. I've seen two bears. Okay. And you would have thought in just seeing two bears, I would have shot one because I'd been there for so long. And if it wasn't for the bait bag and how it was tied, because this, the way they do it in Maine is they put a string and a bait bag. And so if your bag can just barely stand up and reach the bait bag, it's like a 90 pound cub.

[Ashley]

Yeah.

[Mike Axelrod]

And because of that fact, both of those bears were not shot by me.

[Ashley]

Right. Oh, well, look at you. Look at your ethics kicking in on a payback. Love it. Well, I will say this. I have no desire to shoot a bear. I just don't personally. But I like to eat it. It's delicious. And George is dying to shoot a bear. He wants to hunt a bear so bad. So I will take him at some point and yeah, so we'll. We'll see.

[Mike Axelrod]

I'm gonna.

[Ashley]

We may go somewhere where he doesn't have to do it over donuts. But I'd like to get Pacific Northwest.

[Mike Axelrod]

Free chase in Montana, tree chase in Idaho. You know, as they come out of the spring and you walk your butt off. And I'm gonna go up to Alberta. I'll do that eventually, but I'm going up to Alberta. I don't know when I'm gonna do it. 26, maybe 27. And going to hunt over bait. And I'm going to see. Because I've seen two cubs in 80 hours. I want to see 30 bears and I want to be very selective on taking a very big bear.

[Ashley]

I'd like to go in wash to Washington or Oregon. I'd like to go out there.

[Mike Axelrod]

That'd be cool.

[Ashley]

Take him. Yeah. So speaking of that area, I mean there have to be just a gabillion bears out there because they think There are now 60,000 in California. 60,000 bears in one state. Can you imagine? And they don't have hunting. They don't know.

[Mike Axelrod]

Well, we need to. I need to talk to Arjun again. Aun is the black bear coordinator of California. He's promised me to come on the podcast. But the black bear management plan was, hadn't been released yet. And then AB 1038 came in. What happened with 10 AB 1038? Like what was the end result there?

[Ashley]

Well, it has not advanced and just to remind everyone that.

[Mike Axelrod]

Why didn't it advance?

[Ashley]

It's.

[Mike Axelrod]

Well, it needed everybody to vote. Right. Or how many.

[Ashley]

We were one vote short. This is the hounding bill that would basically allow bears to be scared off and run away with hounds, not hunted yet. Sort of the precursor to hunting with dogs, or to allow hunting, if you will. But anyway, after the poor lady was mauled to death by a bear and then there was all this controversy about whether or not she was actually killed by the bear. Turned out she had been feeding the bears, I mean, for a long time. And all his friends came out and they were like, no, she wasn't killed by the bear. Well, and they, there was a big fight between the public authorities, between like the sheriff's office and the, the criminal lab. I mean the people that did the autopsy back and forth and like they weren't sharing their reports. And I'm totally bungling this. I apologize to the, the officials in California. I'm not getting any of your titles right, but essentially they were not sharing their information back and forth. They got in this huge fight, they sat on it forever. They, they found the bear, they found her DNA and parts in it, but they did her autopsy. Long story short, it took a long, long time for all of this to be publicly released. But she was in fact killed by the bear and her wounds. Because there was this big theory by the anti hunting groups that no, no, she wasn't actually killed by the bear. She must have had a heart attack in her house and then a bear broke in and then ate her. What are you taking, what are you doing?

[Mike Axelrod]

I'm taking a picture.

[Ashley]

Okay, so she was, must have been, you know, eaten by this bear after she had a heart attack and died. And there were all these like fights back and forth from people and Anyway, no, the autopsy showed that she, her death was consistent with being attacked and mauled by a bear. Um, and, and she cared greatly about wildlife and was feeding them and all sorts of things. So they found the bear, they put the bear down. And this has now been publicly released. And so this bill was, you know, in response to one, both that, but then also the over 7,000 bear human conflict reports that have come out in the last few years have been reported in California. So it's this. The bill is not dead. California is on a two year calendar.

[Mike Axelrod]

Okay.

[Ashley]

So there's still a possibility that it could move forward. But I'm not going to go through all of the. I think it would take. I think it's, there's a series of things that have to happen. I think it's just, it's sort of tabled for now.

[Mike Axelrod]

Okay. So it's only going to move forward next year essentially, if it does believe so. Okay. Okay.

[Ashley]

But yeah, I, you know, I think that it's getting to the point out there where people are tired of it and unfortunately it's probably going to take more people being hurt and more animals and more pets and livestock being killed for something to happen. I mean, all the surrounding states have bear hunting because they have almost as many bears. But California has what, more bears than any state except for Alaska. So.

[Mike Axelrod]

Wow.

[Ashley]

It's kind of crazy to me that they aren't allowing measures to be taken. Plus they feed them out. I mean, they feed them out there a lot.

[Mike Axelrod]

Well, I'm sure, I'm sure you Lake.

[Ashley]

Tahoe area has more incidents than anywhere else in the country.

[Mike Axelrod]

Oh, Lake Tahoe is like that in New Jersey, I think. Are this like ground zeros for black bear human wildlife conflict in America? Yeah.

[Ashley]

Well, don't feed the bears.

[Mike Axelrod]

What'd you send me? You send me black bear populations, but in every state. Interesting. Unknown. Mississippi unknown.

[Ashley]

Yeah. Texas is unknown. Like so.

[Mike Axelrod]

But is black, Black bears in Texas are still. Are considered like, are they vermin? Come on.

[Ashley]

I mean, I, they're. We. They don't have a season in Texas.

[Mike Axelrod]

No. So they're considered vermin. You can, you can hunt them in Texas.

[Ashley]

You cannot hunt them in Texas right now.

[Mike Axelrod]

Okay. It's not like mountain lions in Texas, I. E. You can kill them however you want whenever you want.

[Ashley]

Right. I mean if you're being attacked by a bear, you can kill a bear. But I'm, I mean, I'm pretty sure.

[Mike Axelrod]

That you can't trap a bear. You can't hunt a bear in Texas right now.

[Ashley]

Right. There is no open season.

[Mike Axelrod]

Okay, what's that state that's above next to. Is that Nebraska hold on. Come on, Miss America.

[Ashley]

You're gonna ask me geography on my podcast?

[Mike Axelrod]

Texas. Oklahoma, Kansas. It must be.

[Ashley]

Is it Iowa?

[Mike Axelrod]

I even know it's not Iowa. Come on, girl. I was on the Mississippi River.

[Ashley]

South Dakota.

[Mike Axelrod]

Negative. It's not South Dakota either. I'm about to school you. American in.

[Ashley]

Where are you?

[Mike Axelrod]

I say it is Nebraska.

[Ashley]

You already said Nebraska. You said, what's above? You said, what's above Nebraska.

[Mike Axelrod]

It's Wyoming. It's Wyoming. It's Wyoming.

[Ashley]

Wait, you said, what is above Nebraska?

[Mike Axelrod]

I probably did say that. You're right. South Dakota is above Nebraska. What I meant was, what was the state next to Idaho that has the big blue blob?

[Ashley]

Oh, well, that is not even remotely what you said.

[Mike Axelrod]

Okay. Why does Wyoming have an unknown black bear population?

[Ashley]

Well, I don't know the answer to that.

[Mike Axelrod]

Anybody who has the answer. Google us. Text us. Of Google us. Text us.

[Ashley]

I also don't know how old this map is.

[Mike Axelrod]

6017-9006-0760-1790-0607. Why doesn't Wyoming have a black bear population estimate? Unless Ashley's map is absolutely ancient.

[Ashley]

I don't think it's that ancient. I really don't. I mean, it may be a couple years old, unless it's from the Fish and Wildlife Service, and then it could be like a decade old. But that is one of the barriers to states having harvest programs for species population estimates.

[Mike Axelrod]

Correct.

[Ashley]

And so that is one of our goals in Blood Origins is to help states reach these populations estimates. And we will be rolling some of that out and working on that. We don't have to talk about that today, but hopefully in the future we will be unrolling some ways that you guys can help us help states and that you can be a part of that.

[Mike Axelrod]

Exactly. Exactly. Awesome source. Anything else, Ashley? I won't tell you nickname Smith.

[Ashley]

Oh, no. Nor comment on my nails. Everyone. Robbie is very excited that this week they're done. Apparently he was not excited that they were not last night.

[Mike Axelrod]

I don't say anything about it last night. I didn't say anything about them last week. What? You told them.

[Ashley]

No. You said something this week about them.

[Mike Axelrod]

I didn't say nothing about them publicly this week. Nothing.

[Ashley]

Not publicly. We hope everyone is surviving. May or has survived May.

[Mike Axelrod]

Yeah, it's been a good month. Finish it strong. Move some cheetahs.

[Ashley]

Move some cheetahs. Thanks for tuning in.

[Mike Axelrod]

Let us know if we can do anything for you. Reach out to us. Infoloodorigins.com DM US. Text us 601-790607 let us know what we need to talk about. Ciao.

[Ashley]

Bye.

[Mike Axelrod]

Well, that's it for today. I appreciate you listening. As always, leave a review, share it with your friends, and most importantly, do what's right to convey the truth around.

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