Roundup 156 || Rewinding, Blondie The Lion, and More

Summary

The Origins Foundation Podcast: Roundup 156 || Rewinding, Blondie The Lion, and More

Release Date: August 8, 2025
Host: The Origins Foundation

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Introduction

In Episode Roundup 156 of The Origins Foundation Podcast, hosts Mike Axelrod and Brittany delve into a range of pressing topics in the realms of hunting, conservation, and wildlife management. The conversation intertwines personal anecdotes with critical discussions on recent legislative developments and controversial wildlife incidents, providing listeners with a comprehensive overview of current issues affecting the hunting and conservation communities.

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Ducks Unlimited Expo Recap

Event Highlights
Mike and Brittany discuss their recent attendance at the Ducks Unlimited Expo held at the Memphis Convention Center. They recount the event's packed schedule, featuring national leadership academy sessions and board meetings that brought together state chapter presidents and key conservation directors.

Notable Quotes:

• Brittany: "The DU show was fantastic. Tons of free parking and a completely redone convention center made it a great venue." [05:15]
• Mike Axelrod: "We appropriately themed our shirts for the Ducks Unlimited Expo, which got a lot of positive attention on our Insta stories." [02:50]

Key Takeaways:

• The expo was well-attended, with strategic planning to accommodate state leadership.
• Brittany noted the absence of interactive activities for children, suggesting future events could incorporate family-friendly features.

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Colorado Sport Houndsman's Association Banquet

Event Overview
Mike shares his experience at the Colorado Sport Houndsman's Association banquet, where he and Pat Dorsey, NWTF Director of Conservation of the West, presented a keynote featuring their documentary on wolves in Colorado and insights into conservation efforts in India.

Notable Quotes:

• Mike Axelrod: "Everyone was super happy about what we're doing and thanked us for our work in Colorado last year." [12:15]

Key Takeaways:

• Positive reception of their conservation initiatives.
• Ongoing projects include filming events in Windsor, Colorado, aimed at raising awareness and funds for conservation.

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Illinois Rewilding Bill

Legislative Breakdown
The hosts delve into Illinois House Bill 2726, known as the Rewilding Bill, which was recently signed into law. This bill empowers the Illinois Department of Natural Resources (DNR) to reintroduce native species, particularly apex predators, without the usual bureaucratic hurdles.

Notable Quotes:

• Brittany: "This amends Illinois DNR to explicitly authorize rewilding, making Illinois the first state to formally define and enshrine rewilding in its statutes." [17:43]
• Mike Axelrod: "The governor can now direct the agency to reintroduce wolves without going through any process." [19:09]

Concerns Raised:

• Hunters express outrage over potential impacts on hunting practices and wildlife management.
• The urban-rural political divide in Illinois may influence the implementation and reception of the bill.
• Comparisons drawn to Colorado's rewilding efforts highlight potential conflicts between conservation goals and hunting interests.

Key Takeaways:

• The bill bypasses traditional conservation processes, leading to fears of unregulated species reintroduction.
• While the Illinois DNR has a strong reputation, stakeholders remain vigilant about the bill's long-term effects on conservation and hunting.

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Florida’s Black Bear Legislation

Current Status
Brittany updates listeners on Florida's pending legislation concerning black bears. The bill, titled the "Don't Feed the Bears Act" (HR 4422), aims to federally ban all bear baiting across national lands.

Notable Quotes:

• Brittany: "The final vote on the bear bill is scheduled for the 14th, with public comments open until the 8th." [23:53]
• Mike Axelrod: "This bill would restrict science-based wildlife management by limiting baiting practices essential for certain research and management activities." [25:12]

Implications:

• The bill poses challenges for state wildlife agencies that rely on baiting for research and population management.
• Conservation and hunting groups are mobilizing against the bill, emphasizing its potential to disrupt established management practices.

Key Takeaways:

• Public input remains crucial as the bill progresses to a final vote.
• The debate centers around balancing wildlife protection with effective management strategies.

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The "Don't Feed the Bears" Federal Bill

Bill Overview
Mike and Brittany discuss the federal "Don't Feed the Bears Act" (HR 4422), which proposes a nationwide ban on bear baiting on all federal lands, including national parks and wildlife refuges.

Key Points:

• Conservation Impact: Baiting is a critical tool for wildlife agencies in monitoring bear populations and managing human-wildlife conflicts.
• Hunting Regulations: Varies significantly across states, with some allowing baiting under strict controls to ensure selective harvesting.
• Opposition: Strong resistance from conservation, hunting, and sportsmen groups who argue the bill undermines scientific management.

Notable Quotes:

• Mike Axelrod: "This would cause chaos in wildlife management by restricting state agencies' ability to conduct necessary research and management." [25:12]
• Brittany: "We're encouraged to submit public comments supporting science-based wildlife management and bear harvests." [23:53]

Key Takeaways:

• The bill faces significant opposition and is considered unlikely to pass due to widespread resistance.
• Emphasis on the need for state-level autonomy in wildlife management practices.

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Controversy Surrounding Blondie the Lion

Incident Summary
One of the most heated topics discussed is the killing of a lion named Blondie in the Wangi Ecosystem. The incident has sparked intense debate over hunting ethics and wildlife conservation.

Key Points:

• Background: Blondie, a five-year-old lion supposedly collared by Africa Geographic, was killed under controversial circumstances.
• Discrepancies: Conflicting reports about Blondie's age and identity have raised questions about the validity of Africa Geographic's claims.
• Ethical Concerns: Debate over the practice of coloring animals to deter hunting, with implications for scientific research and conservation.

Notable Quotes:

• Brittany: "There's so much confused information out there about Blondie. Did he get lured out, or was he naturally roaming?" [38:39]
• Mike Axelrod: "Africa Geographic's lack of transparency regarding the collar data raises serious doubts about the incident." [41:00]

Issues Highlighted:

• Transparency: Africa Geographic has not released satellite collar data or clear evidence linking the collar to the killed lion.
• Legality vs. Ethics: While no laws were broken, the ethical implications of hunting a collared, named lion have ignited controversy.
• Public Perception: The incident has polarized opinions, with some viewing it as a deliberate attempt to tarnish hunting reputation, while others see it as a justified conservation effort.

Key Takeaways:

• The Blondie case underscores the complexities and ethical dilemmas in wildlife management and hunting practices.
• Calls for greater transparency and accountability in conservation organizations to maintain trust within the community.

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Discussion on Animal Coloring in Conservation

Debate Overview
The hosts explore the contentious issue of coloring wildlife as a means to protect them from hunters. This practice aims to create "named" or recognizable animals to discourage hunting through public awareness and ethical considerations.

Key Arguments:

• Pros:
  • Potential deterrent against hunting certain animals.
  • Enhances public connection and accountability towards conservation efforts.
• Cons:
  • May introduce biases in scientific data regarding population dynamics and mortality rates.
  • Ethical concerns about manipulating wildlife for human purposes.

Notable Quotes:

• Mike Axelrod: "Collaring for habitat and movement data is essential, but adding coloration to protect animals can skew scientific research." [48:31]
• Brittany: "If there's no law against hunting a colored animal, it doesn't deter responsible hunters and only creates additional controversy." [47:34]

Key Takeaways:

• While animal coloring could offer protection benefits, it risks compromising the integrity of wildlife research and management.
• The practice requires thorough ethical consideration and potentially new guidelines to balance protection with scientific accuracy.

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Closing Remarks and Future Outlook

Host Reflections
Mike and Brittany conclude the episode by reflecting on their efforts to maintain transparency and open dialogue within the conservation and hunting communities. They emphasize the importance of questioning information, encouraging listeners to conduct their own research, and staying informed about ongoing controversies and legislative changes.

Notable Quotes:

• Brittany: "We need to highlight and explain why certain conservation ideas, like the 'Don't Feed the Bears' Act, are problematic." [50:57]
• Mike Axelrod: "Ask hard questions of what we say and how we say it. It's the only way to ensure we're conveying the truth." [53:19]

Key Takeaways:

• Commitment to truth and transparency remains a cornerstone of their mission.
• Listeners are encouraged to engage actively with conservation issues and legislative processes to support effective and ethical wildlife management.

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Conclusion

Episode Roundup 156 of The Origins Foundation Podcast provides an in-depth look into the intersecting worlds of hunting and conservation. Through candid discussions and critical analysis of recent events and legislation, Mike Axelrod and Brittany offer valuable insights and foster a space for informed dialogue. This episode serves as a crucial resource for those invested in understanding and navigating the complexities of wildlife management and conservation efforts.

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Notable Quotes Compilation:

• Mike Axelrod: "The governor can now direct the agency to reintroduce wolves without going through any process." [19:09]
• Brittany: "If there's no law against hunting a colored animal, it doesn't deter responsible hunters and only creates additional controversy." [47:34]
• Mike Axelrod: "Ask hard questions of what we say and how we say it. It's the only way to ensure we're conveying the truth." [53:19]

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For more insights and updates, connect with The Origins Foundation through their official channels.

Transcript

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[Mike Axelrod]

So there's a reason why I started Blood Origins, and that reason is simple, is that I wanted to convey the truth about hunting.

[Blinds.com]

It brings awareness to non hunters that.

[Mike Axelrod]

It'S more than just killing animals.

[Brittany]

How do I start it? Brittany?

[Mike Axelrod]

My name.

[Brittany]

Does my hair look okay?

[Mike Axelrod]

My name is Mike Axelrod. Start again. Yeah, I hated it too. Braxton, you said something in the car to me. You said that you were living on borrowed time. There's a perception around who hunters are, what we're supposed to be. And a feminist that works for a non profit that is a hunter that has only eaten wild game for the last 20 years is likely not the thing that people think about when it comes to hunter.

[Brittany]

Do I look a little. Do I look a little white again?

[Mike Axelrod]

Yeah, you're still white. Coming through. You want to turn the shit down?

[Brittany]

Hold on.

[Mike Axelrod]

Sh, sh. There we go.

[Brittany]

Little more normal.

[Mike Axelrod]

A little normal. Little more normal.

[Brittany]

I am.

[Mike Axelrod]

Congrats.

[Brittany]

How was ducks?

[Mike Axelrod]

You went to the limited expo this weekend?

[Brittany]

It was good. It was good.

[Mike Axelrod]

Everybody cracked up on our insta stories about, you know. You did one that was like, hey, look, a nice selfie video. Hey, guys, we're here. And by the way, you got a lot of compliments on your shirt. Oh, you got little ducks on your shirt.

[Brittany]

Yes, I actually several people asked me where I got that shirt and I have had it so long that I don't remember where I got it. I've had that shirt forever.

[Mike Axelrod]

You appropriately Themed for the Ducks Unlimited Expo.

[Brittany]

I was.

[Mike Axelrod]

And then you couldn't help yourself. But then start becoming a fashionista and taking photos of you wearing Tom the.

[Brittany]

Tomb Beck mean Becky drew me in and then the, the prices spit me back out.

[Mike Axelrod]

You didn't work on a partnership with.

[Brittany]

Tom Beckby to get beautiful. I love their stuff. Those, the oil jackets and the oil vests are so pretty, but heavy, really heavy. I like an old vest. I love an oil jacket. And do you like the smell of them? Yeah. So I was joking. So my husband is a lawyer who would rather be outside hunting or cow farming or something like that. And so he dresses for the job he wants, not the job he has. And basically every single day of the winter.

[Mike Axelrod]

Does he wear duck boots?

[Brittany]

Does Filson oiled vest? I'm like, where, where are you going? To the office? Bilson oiled vest?

[Mike Axelrod]

No, it's. I don't own anything. Waxed canvas. You know, I lie. I lie. The only wax canvas thing I own is a honeybreak hat. And we've got a lot of wax.

[Brittany]

Canvas around our house and it does start to stink.

[Mike Axelrod]

Well, I told my wife told me I need to put that in the attic.

[Brittany]

Well, imagine, Imagine the coat closet.

[Mike Axelrod]

Yeah, the coat. It doesn't. It. The whole coat closet smells of wax canvas.

[Brittany]

Yeah. There's got to be some sort of way that you take care of them so that they don't start smelling. There has to be. And the baby smells.

[Mike Axelrod]

When they've got a. When they're brand new, though, they have a smell to them.

[Brittany]

Well, maybe somebody can give us some tips on our Google voice number. 601-00-607.

[Mike Axelrod]

Nice.

[Brittany]

You got any tips on how to keep our waxed canvas from smelling up the rest of the house? Send them to us and we'll shout them out.

[Mike Axelrod]

Don't send tips. Like put them in a bag, black plastic bag or.

[Brittany]

Right, right.

[Mike Axelrod]

Vacuum seal them into a bag or something like that.

[Brittany]

There's got to be some sort of rub or oil or something that you can put on them. But I mean, there is one jacket that I really told him, you've got. You just need to throw it away. So terrible.

[Mike Axelrod]

So how was ducks? Was it, was it packed?

[Brittany]

It was packed. It was packed. Now we went on Saturday. It was a Friday, Saturday, Sunday show. We went on Saturday and it was wall to wall. They had their national leadership.

[Mike Axelrod]

They wanted a big crowd.

[Brittany]

Yeah, yeah, of course. You always want a big crowd. They were very smart in that. They had their national leadership academy at the same Time and a number of other board meetings. And so it was at the convention center in downtown Memphis attached to the Sheraton. And so they had all of the state leadership from all of the different states, the different state chapters. So your state chapter president and development director and policy director and all, you.

[Mike Axelrod]

Know, four or five limits that have a conservation and policy person for every state.

[Brittany]

They've got a chapter for every state. Yeah. And so they have this, they used to have this national to run the.

[Mike Axelrod]

Chapter in every state.

[Brittany]

Say that again.

[Mike Axelrod]

Ducks limited has an individual or multiple individuals on salary in the states.

[Brittany]

These are volunteer.

[Mike Axelrod]

Oh, volunteers. Okay, okay.

[Brittany]

Yeah, yeah, volunteer chapters.

[Mike Axelrod]

Okay, okay.

[Brittany]

Yeah. So they come and go to this national. It used to be every two years. I assume it's still the same, I'm not sure. And they do sort of a training, you know how to helping help, helping them run their chapters.

[Mike Axelrod]

Oh, okay.

[Brittany]

Now the Delta Waterfowl Expo was the.

[Mike Axelrod]

Weekend before in Oklahoma City.

[Brittany]

Yep, in Oklahoma City. Yeah.

[Mike Axelrod]

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[Brittany]

Look, I would love to see, I doubt it will ever happen but I would love to see those two groups combine their show and just have one giant waterfowl wetlands conservation oriented show for the public. Because I think, you know, people have to choose a doubt. There are too many people that can go now. They were in different parts of the country so I know that that fed a different audience but you know, vendors having to go to.

[Mike Axelrod]

Oh, it could be so simple. Split the costs 5050 or the profits and the cost and profits 50, 50. You'd have to figure out the events. That's the only thing like the events. But again if everybody's on the same page, do the same thing. Yeah.

[Brittany]

And I mean it could be a mega show. I mean just think how big NWTF has turned into is monstrous. Monstrous and continuing to grow. I mean they've got like a three year waiting list to get a booth there. The DU show and the Delta show could both be, I think so much bigger. So the DU show was fantastic.

[Mike Axelrod]

So is the DU show.

[Brittany]

My only feedback was there wasn't really much for the kids to do. You know, there weren't any like hands on kids things like some shows have. But then there also wasn't a place to have anything outside there. They may be able to figure out some space to do something like that in the future.

[Mike Axelrod]

But is Duck staying in Memphis?

[Brittany]

Oh yeah. Oh, you mean the show? Yeah, I don't, I don't know. I hope they do. I mean I thought it was.

[Mike Axelrod]

Has it not been in Memphis before? This is brand new.

[Brittany]

This is the first year to my knowledge that it has been there. They tried to do it in Texas I think a couple years ago and I'm not sure, I'm not sure if they even had it last year. But I look, I thought it was a great venue. The convention center has been completely redone. It's huge. It's new feeling. It's very, very nice. There was tons of free parking. We had no problem finding a place to park prime time on Saturday. So I hope and I think it makes sense since they're headquartered in Memphis, I think it makes sense for them. And it's right across the street from.

[Mike Axelrod]

The pyramid with logistically so super easy.

[Brittany]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. How was the Colorado?

[Mike Axelrod]

Colorado was awesome. Colorado Sport Houndsman's association banquet. We went out there, we gave a little keynote with Pat Dorsey, NWTF Director of Conservation of the west, was my partner in crime essentially. For as the keynote we gave them a little video about wolves in Denver, our documentary that we're working on right now in Colorado. And then we also get a little taste of what's happening in India. And yeah, very. Everyone was super happy about it, super excited. Met some more, some new people. A lot of people came up to me and said thank you so much for what we're doing. Thanks for what you did for Colorado last year. So it was nice. It was really cool.

[Brittany]

Good.

[Mike Axelrod]

And so I flew home yesterday and had a little bit of issues with Delta and trying to get a shuttle. So the Marriott that I was staying in the night before, I said do you have a shuttle that goes to the airport? And they're like, yes, we do. But it's only for Southwest flight attendants. So if you get, if you're on the right time schedule as them, you can jump on with them. I was like, okay, what's the shuttle schedule? And my flight's departing at 5:20. They said 3:45 and 4:45 and it's 30 minutes to the airport. So I was like, well, 3:45 is too early. I said, 4:45 gets me there right around boarding time. And if there's any issues with security or anything like that, that's just cutting it too close. That's 35 minutes, 40 minutes before boarding. So I said, can a shuttle go in between? And the lady was, well, we don't typically do this, but we'll do it for you. Cool. Writes my name down. I come down. I said, between 4:15 and 4:30 would be awesome. I come down to 4:15. I said to the manager, then I said, hey, is the shuttle ready for me? Oh, there's no shuttles for, you know. I said, well, I was told last night there would be shuttle. My name. Yep, this. I see your name, sir, we can't help you. I said, so now I have to order an Uber? He's like, yeah, I'm sorry. And I said, well, if I'd known that, I would have scheduled one. Well, I looked for an Uber. Uber's 25 minutes out from arriving.

[Brittany]

Oh, no.

[Mike Axelrod]

And I said, so I order it. And I said, well, I guess I'm stuck now because I have to cancel my Uber. And I said, I'll just get on your shuttle at 4:45. And the shuttle driver drove like a bat out of hell because he knew I was on the bus. So I rolled. I rolled in at 5:25 10, 5:15, straight for security. Literally boarded the plane 10 minutes later.

[Brittany]

You got lucky.

[Mike Axelrod]

And then my flight got canceled out of Atlanta during flight. And when I landed, they're like, oh, your flight has been delayed and now you're only departing at 11:10. I was like, I was only departing at 12:40. What are you talking about? They canceled my flight and put me on an earlier flight because I had a 30 minute window. And that worked out too. So everything worked out. Got home at 12:50.

[Brittany]

Air travel has been insane lately, and it's every airline, every airline seems to be having problems.

[Mike Axelrod]

So anyway, we're home. I got to go to Denver this weekend for our filming event at Ullrs. Very excited about that. We're gonna see everybody in Windsor, Colorado. If you're in the area in Windsor, Loveland, Denver, just come up for the evening. Good meal. I think your tickets, you can get a discount right now on the tickets. Arrow 25. You add arrow 25 into the ticket code, you can get a discount. Just come out and see us. Come say hello. Watch two great films, eat some good, good food and some good drink and go on your merry way.

[Brittany]

Raise some money.

[Mike Axelrod]

Yeah, raise Some money.

[Brittany]

Awesome. So there's been a lot going on this week. I feel like.

[Mike Axelrod]

Yeah, it's a little busy.

[Brittany]

What do you want to talk about first? We've got a lot to talk about.

[Mike Axelrod]

Well, let's just get the things out of the way. Like, let's talk about this Illinois. Illinois bill that slipped under everybody's noses. And I don't think anybody knows about it.

[Brittany]

It really did. And I've done a little research in it. So this Illinois bill is what has become known as the rewilding bill. And it was House Bill 2726. It flew through around Memorial Day, which I think is how it snaps. Snuck under the radar. It passed along party lines.

[Mike Axelrod]

No sportsman's group said anything about this.

[Brittany]

I. I don't think. Apparently there was a little. So they. They framed it as a bill around this specific lake, and it was gonna, you know, hurt. Hurt hunting, duck hunting around this lake. And it has so many more wider implications than this lake. And so I think that that is maybe why it snuck through the way it did. What it really does is.

[Mike Axelrod]

And it's paused, right? It's paused. It went through the House and the Senate. The governor signed.

[Brittany]

It went through House and went through the Senate, and then it went to the governor's desk and it just sat there and. And that may have been on purpose because everything. So that's when people caught wind of it, and they were like, whoa, what's. What's happening? So April 10, it passed the House 7537. Then May 21, it passed the Senate 3916. It went to the governor's desk and nothing happened. And it sat. And it sat. And it sat through June, and it sat through July. And I think people thought maybe it would just go away and he would not sign a veto or whatever. Well, he signed it on August 1st. And so it's the law now. And it amends Illinois dnr. It amends their regulations to explicitly authorized what they are calling rewilding.

[Mike Axelrod]

Rewilding of apex predators.

[Brittany]

Well, everything is. Yeah.

[Mike Axelrod]

What? Apex predators specifically?

[Brittany]

Yes, that's in there. That's in there. So that is now their new conservation, their state conservation strategy. And it says they have all authority. All authority. They don't have to go through any hoops. And they can restore the land to its natural, uncultivated state, reintroduce native species, especially apex predators and keystone species.

[Mike Axelrod]

So the governor of Illinois can direct the agency that he is in charge of to reintroduce wolves into Illinois Just like Colorado, dude. But he doesn't have to go through any process now. The agency doesn't have to direct him.

[Brittany]

They can just do it.

[Mike Axelrod]

Yeah, but he could say, hey, do it.

[Brittany]

Yeah, he can say, do it. Or they can just.

[Mike Axelrod]

And now they can just do it.

[Brittany]

They can just do it. Yeah. And so, I mean, it's. Gosh, it's. It. So hunters are outraged. I mean, so they, they. This is, this is how they're framing it. It's designed to be a landowner, friendly and responsive to diverse ecosystems across the state. Emphasizes voluntary participation, minimal mandates. Just the way it's written. I mean, you can just kind of read between the lines. Okay, so this is how they say Illinois becomes the first U.S. state to formally define and enshrine, quote, rewilding in its statutes establishing a holistic approach to conservation and ecological restoration. When's the last time you heard holistic in the same breath as wildlife management or conservation?

[Mike Axelrod]

I cannot believe for a state like Illinois that is so big into hunting that they have a, they have now language that with the, with the right political pressure. We know how this works. With the right political pressure, has. Can just. Now, again, let's go to the ultimate rewild. A predator like a wolf. Done. Yeah, but you got public comment needed, no ballot box biology needed, no commission needed, no vote needed, no nothing.

[Brittany]

Right, right. So you've got to remember, when it comes to Illinois, even though most of the state is agricultural, Chicago, Illinois has a population of 10 million people. The entire state population is 12.5 million people. So your entire voter base is circulated. Is, is, is. Is right there in Chicago and the metropolitan Chicago area. And so as I, I reached out to Illinois DNR to, you know, this is completely unofficial, but they were like, you know, with regard to wildlife management and the votes like that, you know, not, not internally from their agency, but from, from decisions that are being passed. The tail is wagging the dog, all this, so to speak. And we've seen that before. We've seen that in. That's exactly what has happened with some of the Colorado initiatives, because the, the urban areas with condensed populations have voted. I mean, those eight or nine counties in Colorado vote opposite the way the entire rest of the state votes in those rural, rural areas where people hunt and where people live, where these apex predators are going to be reintroduced. That's the same situation.

[Mike Axelrod]

Absolutely nuts.

[Brittany]

Yeah, I. This will be very, very interesting to see how this plays out. So the bill will take effect January of 2026. And you know, the good thing, if if there is any silver lining, Illinois DNR is a fantastic game and fish agency. They do tremendous work and they've got a great director. They have great staff up there. And so I don't see them taking any drastic or crazy actions. Even though the legislature, because this was a legislatively, you know, led bill, I don't see them taking any drastic, crazy initiatives up there. Hopefully, hopefully that will be the case because I think, I think they really do have a good dnr.

[Mike Axelrod]

Well, we can only hope, right?

[Brittany]

We hope we will watch it and monitor it. Yeah. Wild, wild, wild. No pun intended.

[Mike Axelrod]

She's wild. Florida getting super close right now on black bears. Where's the timeline on that? What's the schedule on that?

[Brittany]

The vote is going to be their meetings the 13th and 14th. And so the final vote will come then. I think it'll be on the 14th. But public comments are still open. People can submit public comments through the 8th. So the 8th is the last day to submit public comment. And we would encourage you to go ahead and do that. Some of them read, some of those commissioners read every single comment that's submitted. They don't have to be long or detailed. I mean, you can just literally submit a comment that says, I support science based wildlife management and a bear harvest based on the science. You know, just something simple.

[Mike Axelrod]

Yeah, yeah. Well, that we'll keep on.

[Brittany]

We've got a podcast coming out tomorrow right about.

[Mike Axelrod]

No, it would have come out. It would have come out yesterday. Came out yesterday.

[Brittany]

Yesterday. One day we'll be live with these. One day. One day we might be live with these. And I'll get to say things like that.

[Mike Axelrod]

What else? You sent me something else.

[Brittany]

Well, we, we've been talking a lot today and yesterday there was a, there's a bear bill that was introduced. It's called the Don't Feed the Bears Act. Oh yeah, 4422.

[Mike Axelrod]

4422 hr 4422 in the House of Representatives in D.C. this is federal bill.

[Brittany]

Federal bill that proposes to ban all baiting, all baiting of bears federally. So across the entire country. And this has been proposed before and has never various forms of this bill, but this essentially so on all Forest Service land, national park land, BLM land, anything the anything owned national wildlife refuges, anything that the United States government owns, you could not bait any bears with. And the reason this is problematic is because a lot of state wildlife agencies doing research on bears, collaring them, monitoring them. States have different laws regarding their harvest seasons and how you can hunt bears, whether you can hunt bears over bait or not. But there the rules vary drastically across the country. And so it's not even from a hunting perspective. It's from a science and just wildlife management perspective. This would cause all sorts of chaos from the standpoint of you suddenly are restricting what the state wildlife agencies can do and where they can do it within the states because a lot of them have, you know, cooperative agreements between the federal government on the different pieces of land within the states. And so you're restricting, you're basically restricting science based management and the tools in the toolbox that these different agencies have. And, and also the federal government. So thankfully, this does not appear like it has any legs and I don't think it's going to move at all. There's a huge community of conservation groups and hunting groups and sportsman's groups that have jumped into this pretty fast. And so all of our intel from D.C. and we've talked to the House Natural Resources Committee and they have said, look, we have absolutely zero appetite in moving this thing. So I don't, I think it's dead on arrival. But it's worth mentioning because these kinds of ideas and crazy things come out all the time and so we at least need to highlight them and just explain why it's a bad idea.

[Mike Axelrod]

Well, Ashley.

[Brittany]

Yes.

[Mike Axelrod]

If you recall a couple of months ago we talked about bear baiting.

[Brittany]

Yeah. Look, I still don't like the idea of having to set out a pile of donuts to hunt a bear over it. I just don't. That's just me. Like, if you're gonna hunt a bear, go hunt a bear, free chase. But if you are a wildlife agency and you are trying to, and you need to collect a whole bunch of data on a whole bunch of bears and you need to use some sort of bait to do that, I mean, I have no problem with that.

[Mike Axelrod]

So you don't know.

[Brittany]

You and I have still solved the benefit of differences over baiting and free chase.

[Mike Axelrod]

So you don't see the benefit of bait from a selectivity of bear perspective? Purely from a selectivity of bear perspective.

[Brittany]

I think that if you are going to, if you are going to endeavor to hunt bears, you need to educate yourself on how to identify them and have, you know, take the opportunity to know enough about the species that you're hunting, take the time to do it. And, and if it, if it's one of those situations where you can't tell and you don't know, then, I mean, be responsible. So, I mean, look, Louisiana, while we're talking about it, they just more than doubled their tag numbers for this coming season. So for the 26th season, they can.

[Mike Axelrod]

Be selective about how they take because of baiting.

[Brittany]

It's not because of baiting.

[Mike Axelrod]

It is because of baiting.

[Brittany]

They're not doubling their tags because they can bait.

[Mike Axelrod]

I guarantee it is why I say.

[Brittany]

Their tags because their population species density shows that they have the number of bears to be able to support that number of bears.

[Mike Axelrod]

It's because the model that they're using, based on the harvest data that they inputted into it, said that they are still very conservative in their harvest. And the reason that it says that is because they didn't kill eight females and two males. They killed eight males and two females because of bait.

[Brittany]

So all these other states that allow bear harvest, that don't allow baiting, they're just gonna.

[Mike Axelrod]

No, they've got much, much, much larger populations. So maybe it's a population density thing that if you've got very large bear populations, then it's. It, it. You know, if you have the mistake. If you make the mistake of killing a sow in Idaho, say, or Oregon, is it going to affect the bear population? Probably not.

[Brittany]

It's probably not going to affect it in Louisiana either.

[Mike Axelrod]

If you do it repeatedly on a small population like they have of 1500 bears, it will.

[Brittany]

So I really like the way North Carolina does it. There is not a complete ban on baiting for their bear harvest season. There is a ban on processed, unnatural foods. So the bait has to be natural and unmodified so they can. Why is that funny? I mean, they can follow.

[Mike Axelrod]

It's funny because you're. Now you're qualifying it.

[Brittany]

Grain, fruits, nuts, vegetables, things that bears wouldn't eat.

[Mike Axelrod]

Are you okay with that baiting?

[Brittany]

I think that that's a lot better than sticking out a pile of candy and donuts.

[Mike Axelrod]

So if you. If we put out fruit and nut mix.

[Brittany]

You can't be fruit and nut mix. Like, that's. That's a modified.

[Mike Axelrod]

Why not?

[Brittany]

It's got sugar on it. No, you can't stick out trail mix that's got sugar on it.

[Mike Axelrod]

No, it's a trail mix that is unsugared.

[Brittany]

You want to plant some BlackBerry bushes out there, Go for it.

[Mike Axelrod]

If you, you know, we're throwing blackberries on the ground, not a BlackBerry bush. You know, blackberries, blueberries, strawberries.

[Brittany]

I'm happy for you. I'm happy for you to go throw out blackberries and strawberries because I don't Think they're going to go just like they're not going to be drawn from a mile away and sit there and just gorge themselves for eight hours on a pile of blackberries that you put out like they would with just this?

[Mike Axelrod]

Hell yeah, they would.

[Brittany]

Maybe. But I don't think so. Then why does North Carolina do it the way they do it differently from.

[Mike Axelrod]

Because they don't. I, as I understand it, and I don't know this for certain, but because of the potential urban rural interfaces tied in with some of these bear areas, you don't want bears getting used to eating junk bait.

[Brittany]

Oh, you don't?

[Mike Axelrod]

Donuts, crap and pizza and all that kind of stuff if you've got them in trash cans down the road of people's houses.

[Brittany]

Well, looks like Louisiana's on the way to having them in trash cans around people's houses, aren't they?

[Mike Axelrod]

Forever at the bait text us Pennsylvania.

[Brittany]

I mean, like, every state's different and that's why we live in the United States of America, because every state can be different and that's okay. And I'm good with that. So yes, I am against the don't feed the bears bill. And I still think that. I don't like it. You want it. But you know what? You can go down Louisiana and you can pile up your donuts.

[Mike Axelrod]

And in Maine. And in Maine. Google us. Google US. Google US.

[Brittany]

Texas 601-790-0607 I'm gonna get it for this again. Robbie loves. So a lot of times people agree with me this one. None of our listeners agree with me. No. But privately they do. Privately they do.

[Mike Axelrod]

601-790-607 never hunted bears.

[Brittany]

She never hunted bears.

[Mike Axelrod]

We have bear hunter.

[Brittany]

You're right. I. I've publicly said I have never hunted a bear. I haven't. And I haven't hunted them other donuts either. So I can't, you know, I don't know.

[Mike Axelrod]

All right, moving on.

[Brittany]

I'm happy that my kids are totally allowed to when they're old enough. I have told my youngest son he's. I'm happy to take him bear hunting.

[Mike Axelrod]

Move on. Moving on.

[Brittany]

You want to talk about lions? Have we finished with North America?

[Mike Axelrod]

North America's done. Let's talk about the most controversial topic probably that is causing the most ruckus in the wildlife conservation space.

[Brittany]

Blondie, which also happens to be my nickname in my family.

[Mike Axelrod]

Oh, really?

[Brittany]

Yes.

[Mike Axelrod]

Oh, that's what I'm going to call you from now on. And that's actually quite poignant. Because one of the questions we have around this line is, which Blondie?

[Brittany]

Well, and also, is it a male or female? Which I was kind of like, blondie's a male. This is not, never Blondie in America is usually not a male.

[Mike Axelrod]

Yeah. So Blondie, the male line has a supposedly a very blonde mane.

[Brittany]

Supposedly.

[Mike Axelrod]

And there, and there's a lot of supposed these in this debate. So Outdoor Life reached out to us on Friday. They asked us if we, if we could get quoted for a piece on Blondie. And I asked Outdoor Life very nicely, hey, we've got a lot of information that a lot of people don't have. Would you mind if I wrote the piece? And they said, we would love for you to write the piece. And so we wrote a piece in Outdoor Life, which is probably the first piece of content. I know there's been a couple more that have come out after this that shed light on our side of this issue. So if you're not up to speed, Blondie a named lion out of the Wangi ecosystem, the Wangi national park ecosystem.

[Brittany]

And if you want to look this up just because I needed to, it's H w. H W a N G E. Correct.

[Mike Axelrod]

H W a N G E. Just type in Blondie the lion and all the news will come up around. Also so happens to be he got killed within days. July 5th is the 10 year anniversary of Cecil the Lion. This lion was supposedly killed on the week of June 8th. June 28th. And so there's just, you know, the, the, the Africa Geographic, which is a travel agency out of South Africa that also has a journalist component, journalism component to them are very anti hunting, specifically anti hunting of named animals. And they supposedly not supposedly they paid for a collar three months ago that went on this cat. Interestingly, if you look at the, the collar brochure that they received, the collar brochure says that they will receive bi monthly reports Bob Blondie and the and his movement patterns and pictures of the collaring event and all sorts of things. Their article that went out about this travesty, according to them, didn't have any other photographs of Blondie being collared. You would have thought that would have been pretty hard evidence for them and pretty good proof. There's also no information around the monitor, the actual collar data, the tracking data on the collar. So when Africa Geographic says that this lion was lured out of Wangi, he was killed in a, in a concession called Guai Guai Environmental Community Aerial environmental conservation, about 10km away, 10km from Wangi. So the Area that he was killed didn't even border the national park. There's a, there's a piece of property, two pieces of one piece of property actually between Wangi and the Guay Eca. So he was lured out, which is, you know, big headlines. How dare the hunters lure these, these beautiful pride males out of Wangi? No, did he, did he get lured out? The satellite collar information is the only way to prove that. Nobody's seen the satellite color information except the researcher. Did he get lured out in the last 10 days into GWAI because of the bait? I don't know. Or did he, Was he nomadic? Was he roaming already? I don't know either.

[Brittany]

And there's so many questions too, about one was, was it what this, who this Blondie line was? Right? I mean, because if you Google Blondie, like pictures come up, but it seems to be different lions in the different pictures. And there are also indications that perhaps the lion that was killed was older than five. But supposedly Blondie was five.

[Mike Axelrod]

Well, the articles say five years and three months. Very specific age. Right. They knew exactly how old this lion was. So there is a lion probably called Blondie that they knew from birth that they collared. But there's also another blondie on Mvelo's. Mvelo is a photographic lodge in Wangi in the. In Southern Owengi that has a picture of lionesses and cubs and some sub adult males in it that says this is Blondie and his brother. And, and the two lionesses. And Blondie was, was born in 2017. That puts Blonde, that blondie at 8. When you look at the photo, the trophy photo of this lion and the three individuals behind it, that their faces are blurred out. Ask 10 professional hunters that lion hunt that are well educated in aging lions. 10 out of 10 will say that's much older than 5, right?

[Brittany]

So is that even Blondie or the supposed Blondie? There's just so. There's so much confused information out there.

[Mike Axelrod]

That picture doesn't show a line that has a collar on him. It doesn't show a picture of any form of collar wear. That alliance supposedly had three months of choler. Where's the flattening of the mane? Where's the, you know, maybe that they took it out in the photograph? I don't know. Did they fluff up the mane enough to take it out? I don't know.

[Brittany]

Well, and at the end of the day, no laws were broken. None, None, None.

[Mike Axelrod]

Zero.

[Brittany]

We know that they actually said, I don't want to take a famous or named lion Right. Like that was not his intention.

[Mike Axelrod]

He was named or collared.

[Brittany]

Right, right. That was not his intent. So you would think that if there was a collar on this line when they saw him, they wouldn't have shot and shot him.

[Mike Axelrod]

Yeah, but here's the thing. Even if he did, let's just play devil's advocate. Even if he did say, I don't care, I don't care if I shoot a named line or I don't care if I shoot a colored line, it's still legal.

[Brittany]

It's still legal.

[Mike Axelrod]

Okay, now you can question ethics because you have to.

[Brittany]

The only restriction over there is that the line has to be five years old. Right.

[Mike Axelrod]

That's not even a restriction to shooting it.

[Brittany]

No, it's not.

[Mike Axelrod]

No. If you want to export it.

[Brittany]

Oh, okay.

[Mike Axelrod]

The line has to be five years.

[Brittany]

Old or older, which most do. I mean, if they're going to spend the kind of money they're spending to go over there and shoot one, of course.

[Mike Axelrod]

So it's, you know, there's so many. And then you've got like we did a deep dive into all these different, like anecdotal pieces of, of information. Okay. A lioness was shot in that community in the same area where this lion was shot. Blondie was shot. It was a pac lioness, which is a problem animal control lioness. It was bothering the cattle and goats of a specific village. People had been in there for six months. People being the community guardians, the lion community guardians to a nonprofit that runs that helps communities keep lions away. And the professional hunter that was asked by the community to remove the lion all used a bunch of non lethal methods to get that lioness out for a good couple of months prior to leading up to the community saying, we are done shoot. That lioness took out the lioness. Additionally, cubs showed up on the, on the, the sort of steps of a photographic lodge. I think two cubs or three cubs. Then you've got this blog post that has subsequently been removed of Blondie getting into a fight with another rival coalition so that he was a part of the TomTom coalition, got into a fight with the Ngoma coalition. Dark main, his brother, his coalition partner, disappears because of the fight. Blondie's by himself, can't protect the pride anymore, goes off on walkabout, doesn't have a pride anymore. Lionesses fending for themselves. Again, you've got this pac lioness that got taken. So the idea that Blondie had a pride of two lionesses and 10 cubs.

[Brittany]

More conflicting information, it's just too Much.

[Mike Axelrod]

Conflicting stuff here to be just like, what's the truth here? What. What's going on here?

[Brittany]

And. And the problem is, at the end of the day, most of the people reporting don't care. No, I mean, they're just mad. They're mad that if a colored lion was shot, that it was shot and they want blood.

[Mike Axelrod]

Well, and Africa Geographic was the first people to. To as they are very proud by saying we were the first people to break the news. First people. And they are quoted. Here's why they are quoted. The CEO is quoted in every single news outlet in the world right now. Would you not want that? Somebody who is championing for tourism. So now let's play super conspiracy theorist. Africa Geographic colored this lion. Did they do it in full knowledge that this was a lion that potentially would be killed one day so that they could create the story?

[Brittany]

Surely not. Surely not. But if they did put out this story and they're the ones perpetuating it and they're putting out a story about the wrong lion, then that's a big problem.

[Mike Axelrod]

I don't think it's the wrong lion. I think a blondie got shot. But.

[Brittany]

Well, then why aren't they coming out with their. Why aren't they coming out with their coloring data? Why aren't they putting that out there? I mean, that would be so easy to release, right? I mean, look, you literally give, like, daily updates on the cheetah column colors. You're like, oh, here they are. Here. This one's moved, this one, you know, like, yeah, they should know literally day by day what that lion, where it was going, what it was doing.

[Mike Axelrod]

Or let's assume they don't. Let's assume they don't get the collar information. The researchers aren't giving it to them. Okay. If you paid for a collar to go onto a famous lion in Wangi, I would have been there to do the coloring. Would you have been there to do the coloring?

[Brittany]

Yeah, yeah. That's just. No, those colors are not cheap. We both. Those colors are not cheap.

[Mike Axelrod]

But you would want to be a part of the experience, right?

[Brittany]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I'm saying. Where's the picture of the lion Collared?

[Mike Axelrod]

Yeah. On the ground, asleep, with the collar on him and you standing. And I bet you there's a picture of everyone just like we've done for lions that we've collared. Right. I'll show you. I'm going to bring a picture up right now.

[Brittany]

If they just. If they just collared this lion Three months ago, and it's this famous blondie. There are pictures. 100%, they're pictures.

[Mike Axelrod]

Hold on, I'm picturing, I'm taking, I'm going to find you a picture of the exact thing.

[Brittany]

I've seen them. I've seen the pictures of the cheetahs collared.

[Mike Axelrod]

No, no, no, not cheetahs. A lion. A lion.

[Brittany]

Oh, a lion collar.

[Mike Axelrod]

I'm going to show you a picture.

[Brittany]

But I'm saying, you know, that there are pictures of this lion collared, if they exist.

[Mike Axelrod]

You know there's pictures like this. Right, right.

[Brittany]

Yeah.

[Mike Axelrod]

That's a picture of the guy like, hey, we just moved this lion and there's all of us with the lion. We want a picture with it. They've got a picture. And surely again, let's play conspiracy theory for a second. If that picture of them standing behind the colored lion asleep matched the picture of the dead lion that they posted, would you not have posted the picture? So if you didn't post the picture, what are you saying?

[Brittany]

So the only pictures that pull up.

[Mike Axelrod]

It wasn't the same lion.

[Brittany]

The only pictures that pull up when I try to try to for Google and ChatGPT are their pictures of the famous blondie being collared. It shows a female.

[Mike Axelrod]

That's what ChatGPT gives you. So here's the other thing that is riling everybody up a little bit is the fact that, and I'd love to get your thoughts on this because you're absolutely sort of coming in to the space without any context or perceived notions or whatnot. What do you think about the idea of people coloring animals just to ensure that they are not hunted?

[Brittany]

Well, I don't. I mean, if there's no law against hunting a colored animal like in Zimbabwe, then that's going to do nothing except.

[Mike Axelrod]

If it creates a furor like we're that. Like we're. That we're in. Embroiled in right now.

[Brittany]

Yeah, but I mean, there's already a furor out there for some species. And so it only the people that are going and paying what they're paying to hunt these species that know that the dollars are going back into the ground to help conserve the species and to support the people and all of the resources and all of the wildlife and habitat management over there, if they know that it's not illegal, I don't think it's going to deter them. They just might be much, much, much, much less likely to have their picture taken with it or to share it with certain people.

[Mike Axelrod]

Yeah. So the Controversy here is if you're coloring a piece of wildlife, the reason you're coloring that piece of wildlife is to get information from it. Scientific information, population dynamics, but typically population dynamics, habitat use and or home range, territory movements. Okay, Three things. The only one that you do not want. You want your lion or your elephant or whatever it is to live as long as it possibly can is when you start, you're trying to figure out home range and territory. Okay. The other one, population dynamics, that includes mortality. So hunting. If you, if you, if you are purposely saying do not kill that animal because of hunting, you're skewing, you're biasing the population dynamics data that you're getting out of it. I like the habitat, the habitat selection stuff. You obviously want the lion or cheetah or elephant to be alive so you can understand like what habitat it's using or vegetation it's eating. That kind of stuff.

[Brittany]

Stuff.

[Mike Axelrod]

So there is this controversy here in, in our space, in our community and also in scientific community that is, should you be collaring animals just for the sake of potentially protecting them? Because a hunter is going to think twice about shooting an animal that is collared because of the potential blowback from it.

[Brittany]

Are groups really doing that?

[Mike Axelrod]

Yeah, big life in Kenya is collaring elephants to protect them from hunters.

[Brittany]

But they can't be. They're not hunted in Kenya anyway.

[Mike Axelrod]

It doesn't matter. If they go across the border in Tanzania and they're. And they're hunted with a collar, it will. Cause it'll be bigger than Cecil.

[Brittany]

Yeah. I also think the groups just use whatever means and mechanisms they can to fundraise 1,000%. And if they're just telling people, oh, we're going to put these collars on them and we need you to help us raise the money. Oh, and we're putting 30% overhead on top of it, by the way.

[Mike Axelrod]

You're mailing it.

[Brittany]

Send us your money. And we're going to call her. This. It may or may not help, you know, but you know, there's people who are so gullible.

[Mike Axelrod]

Yeah. So this Africa geographic color, they obviously paid for it. They must have paid $5,000 or something like that for it. Okay. And the brochure that I have seen promises all these things. Right. That you're going to be protecting lions, mitigating from human wildlife conflict. We're going to give you pictures of the coloring event. We're going to give you bimonthly reports of the movement patterns, yada, yada, yada, yada. And then in the document as well, actually, I think it's an African Geographic piece because Africa Geographic is wanting to raise money so that they can buy it. Right. Africa Geographic says also these colors are going to be used as an early detection monitoring system. So why was there no communication?

[Brittany]

Are they. Is Africa Geographic affiliated with National Geographic?

[Mike Axelrod]

No, no, no.

[Brittany]

Not at all. No, no, no. But they do put out a magazine and some.

[Mike Axelrod]

No, they just put out online. Online articles. And then they're a travel agency, essentially a travel agent, photographic luxury brand. Yeah, it's the same organization. Yeah, it's the same organization that condemned what's happening in Serengeti with all the tourism stuff you saw all the tourism and the tourists jumping out of their vehicles for the wildebeest migration, then in the same breath turns around and says, that's why we vet our operators so honestly and so thoroughly so that we can give you the true wilderness experience. So book through us.

[Brittany]

I'm surprised National Geographic never pushed back against them for using that name.

[Mike Axelrod]

I don't know. Anyway, there's a lot of unknowns. I think a lot of people are. And don't even look at our OUTDOOR Life article. I don't expect you to believe everything I said. Do your own research. Don't believe. Hook, line, and sinker, what somebody writes as verbatim. Truth, please.

[Brittany]

There's a lot of. Lots of information out there, even our stuff.

[Mike Axelrod]

Question it. Ask questions. Ask hard questions of what we say and how we say it and why we say it. It's only going to make us better. And if we figured out if. If we're wrong, we'll say we're wrong.

[Brittany]

Especially when I mispronounce things.

[Mike Axelrod]

Especially then.

[Brittany]

Like. Like javelina.

[Mike Axelrod]

Oh, my God.

[Brittany]

It doesn't happen very often.

[Mike Axelrod]

It's not a javelin.

[Brittany]

It's pretty.

[Mike Axelrod]

It's not a javelin. It's not a javelin.

[Brittany]

I've read so much growing up. Just read, read, read, read, read, read, read. And I still do. And sometimes when I read things, they translate in my brain differently than how they're supposed to be pronounced. But. But it just gets stuck that way in my brain forever.

[Mike Axelrod]

Too funny. Too funny. It's good to hear. Keep everybody up to date on the lion saga. It's definitely not over. And so, yeah, lots of things happening. Lots of things.

[Brittany]

Lots of things.

[Mike Axelrod]

Anything else you can think of?

[Brittany]

Nope. I think we're good for today.

[Mike Axelrod]

Yeah. Name change went extremely well. Thank you, everybody for the kudos that we've received from all over the world. I got a funny text from one of our good friends, I won't name his name on the podcast. And the text was, please, for the love of God, don't tell me you're going green on us. And I said, no, we're going to be the same. We're going to be the same. Our voice is going to stay the same. Our heart's going to stay the same. I think we'll actually get a little louder, actually. I feel like I'm going to get a little louder because I've got a name behind me that people can't just like.

[Brittany]

You know, I agree. I'm ready. So do more stuff, bigger stuff.

[Mike Axelrod]

We're in a good spot. We've got a lot of things coming. Got lots of projects. Thanks, everybody for their support. Again. If you want to reach out to us, Please do text us. 601-7900-6076-0179-0607. You might as well put it into your phone as Blood Origins. And then when something comes across your brain, just text us.

[Brittany]

Blood Origins.

[Mike Axelrod]

Oh, sorry. The Origins Foundation. You got me. You got me.

[Brittany]

Origins Foundation.

[Mike Axelrod]

See, I'm willing. It's. I have to change it in my phone. I'm going to change it in my phone. See, I'm willing to be corrected. I'm not stubborn enough to not be corrected.

[Brittany]

Not very often. Right? Thanks, guys.

[Mike Axelrod]

Thanks, Ashley. Bye.

[Brittany]

Bye.

[Mike Axelrod]

Well, that's it for today. I appreciate you listening. As always, leave a review, share it with your friends, and most importantly, do what's right to convey the truth around hunting.