Roundup 158 || Weekly Roundup with Ashlee and Lake Pickle

Summary

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The Origins Foundation Podcast

Weekly Roundup 158 with Ashlee (Brittany) and Lake Pickle

Date: August 27, 2025
Theme: Conservation, Hunting Culture, Debunking Myths & The Latest News

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Episode Overview

This week’s “Roundup” brings together Brittany (host, Ashlee) and special guest Lake Pickle—a well-known Mississippi outdoors communicator—for an engaging, candid, and at times humorous look at hunting culture, conservation, new regulations, and hot topics across the country. They delve into everything from turkey hunting traditions and debunked Mississippi “baiting” rumors to viral hunting TV shows, wolf management controversies, and the impact of the Gulf pogie fishing industry. Listeners receive a balanced blend of news, expert opinion, and storytelling rooted deeply in southern hunting heritage and scientific conservation values.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Who is Lake Pickle? (13:03–18:59)

• Background & Career

  • Lake recounts his roots: grew up hunting and fishing in Mississippi, first turkey at age 12 thanks to a church friend.
  • Worked for Primos Hunting (9 years), starting “Speak the Language” podcast.
  • Now with OnX Hunt, co-hosts “Speak the Language,” and hosts “Backwoods University” on MeatEater’s Podcast Network.
  • Lake’s unique background: wildlife biology degree, significant industry experience, and strong communications skills.

• Podcast Direction

  • Early concept: biology-focused, shifted to always incorporate the impact of humans on wildlife.
  • Example: Lake’s episode on conservation icon Fannye Cook (Mississippi’s first professional wildlife biologist)—“I can't talk about a particular wildlife species or a process or a population without mentioning the influence that humans have on it, positive or negative” —Lake (16:13).

• Memorable Moment

  • Lake describes holding Fannye Cook’s original taxidermy displays at the Museum of Natural Science: “It was pretty wild because...it was crazy to just, like, hold one of those things that she used to do her presentation.” (19:36)

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2. Hunting Traditions, Family, and Turkey Tales (2:03–6:34)

• Southern Turkey Hunting Traditions
  • Lake’s office mural of turkey tail fans—over 50, “a result of my wife saying, make it fit in one room.”
  • Brittany: avoids turkey hunting for the sake of marital balance; her husband is “fanatical.”
  • Youth perspective: Brittany’s sons (8 & 9) are obsessed with turkeys despite never harvesting one solo. The excitement and gear (“ghillie suit for his birthday”) far outweigh the kill itself.

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3. Hunting Season Kicks Off & Social Aspects (10:01–12:24)

• Dove Season in Mississippi
  • Start date debate: always Labor Day due to tradition, regardless of biologist proposals.
  • Dove hunting is a major social event in the South: “Dove hunts in the south...are parties as much as they are hunts.” —Brittany (11:17)
  • Balancing family commitments (baseball vs. dove hunting): Brittany chooses the hunt, “I consider it work...it’s fun, but I can play the, well, that’s, you know, it’s work for me.”

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4. Hunting Culture in Media—“Hunting Wives” (20:41–23:48)

• Critique of “Hunting Wives” TV Show
  • Brittany: “It is basically smut, I'm not gonna lie...they’re normalizing hunting...but the way they're doing it is so far from reality.”
  • Lake shares his wife’s reaction: “I don’t think I should have watched that. I don’t think I should watch that at all.” (22:39)
  • Upcoming reality version recruitment; hope for a more honest portrayal.
  • Caution: “Don’t watch the show if your kids are in the room.” —Brittany (22:18)

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5. Viral News: The Mississippi Fake Baiting Post (24:03–26:59)

• A “news” post circulated saying public land baiting would be legal in MS. It was fake—poor spelling, format gave it away.
  • “The amount of people that believed that to be real...” —Lake (25:32)
  • State agency had to issue a public correction due to the frenzy, with some excited, others irate.
  • “If I want to put myself in a state of losing hope, I go read Facebook comments.” —Lake (25:44)

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6. Debate: Baiting Whitetail Deer (27:18–32:13)

• Lake’s Stance: Against Baiting
  • Not beneficial to herds, more negatives than positives.
    • “I do not like baiting for whitetail deer in any...I don't think it's beneficial in the long run.” —Lake (27:18)
  • Pushback: “Oh yeah, yeah, very much so.” (28:14)—many believe it helps deer herds or increases hunting opportunities, but science doesn’t back those claims when most feed is corn/rice bran.
  • Important insight: The tradition of hunting, fairness, and “woodsmanship” risk being lost for newer generations exposed only to hunting over feeders.
• Habitat Management
  • Brittany: “Science has shown that food plots work just as efficiently and well as feeders... put the time and effort into managing your habitat.” (30:29)
  • CWD (Chronic Wasting Disease) adds further risk; both agree the long-term health of populations matters more.

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7. Wolf Management: Science vs. Media Spin (34:39–36:24)

• Montana Wolf Hunting Quotas vs. Recent Study
  • Montana increasing wolf tags due to rising numbers; simultaneous Guardian/NPR coverage of a study asserting wolf hunting does little to prevent livestock losses.
  • Lake: “You never want to put out an article...when I can skim it in five minutes and figure out where your biases are.” (34:39)
  • Study lacks alternative solutions; the media often frames issues narrowly or with bias.

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8. Dove Population Stats & Good News (36:24–37:33)

• Texas reports strong dove populations: 5% increase over 2024, 28% above long-term average.
  • Lake (as a waterfowler): “If like the waterfowl population stats came out and we saw a 5% increase...the duck hunters would be dancing in the streets.” (37:14)

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9. Hunters as Heroes: Main Highway Incident (37:36–39:20)

• Maine: Hunting guides in a U-Haul chased down a highway shooter, exchanged gunfire, assisted police.
  • Both hosts: Applaud the positive press for hunters, saying “we need all the good news we can take.”

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10. Gulf Pogie (Menhaden) Bycatch Crisis (40:06–47:18)

• Study Reveals Massive “Bycatch” Numbers
  • 2024: 81 million croaker, 240,000 speckled trout, 22,000 adult redfish, and 25 million sand trout killed as bycatch by pogie (menhaden) boats.
  • Lake: “You can’t look at these numbers and just imagine like, okay, this has no effect on the rest of the Gulf.” (42:46)
  • Brittany: “Considering how tight the redfish seasons are and people...complaining about the numbers...to be allowing that much by catch...is shocking.” (41:58)
• Complex Industry
  • Long-running battle over regulation, buffer zones, and beach erosion claims.
  • Industry is crucial economically, but ecological concerns mount after this study.
  • Lake’s upcoming “Backwoods University” episode will cover issue in depth.

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11. Turkey Stamp News—Win for Conservation (47:59–49:54)

• Mississippi Approved Its First Turkey Stamp
  • Lake helped push for it; stamp will directly fund turkey habitat projects.
  • Brittany: “And we kept trying to tell legislators, turkey hunters want this bill, sportsmen want this bill.”
  • Lesson: Positive, vocal engagement from hunters is crucial for passing these conservation measures.

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12. Looking Ahead: Legislative Sessions & Conservation Watch (47:59+)

• Reminder for hunters to check licenses, monitor local regulations, and participate in commission meetings as legislative sessions approach.
• “We’ll start paying attention really closely...so that we can report back.” —Brittany

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the power of tradition:
  “Dove hunts in the south...are parties as much as they are hunts. It’s kind of a co sort of thing.” —Brittany (11:17)

• On authenticity in hunting culture:
  “Nobody dresses like they do. ...Most people I know don’t drink nonstop while they’re hunting. ...Like from the boat. I mean it’s just like these crazy scenarios. So I’m like, okay, can we get something real about this out here?” —Brittany on “Hunting Wives” (21:16)

• On misinformation and social media:
  “If I want to, like, put myself in a state of losing hope, I go read Facebook comments.” —Lake (25:44)
  “The actual Mississippi Department...had to come out and make a public statement and go, hey, this is fake.” —Lake (25:40)

• On feeding vs. habitat for deer:
  “You want them to have opportunity...but you don’t want to cut off your nose to spite your face…long term for the health of the species.” —Lake (28:14)

• On industry and data transparency:
  “It’s almost an out of sight, out of mind kind of thing...But if we had something that was causing this much...kill off above ground, people would be losing their minds over it.” —Lake on Pogie Bycatch (45:22)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Time | Segment | |-------------|-----------------------------------------------------| | 02:03-06:34 | Turkey hunting traditions & family stories | | 13:03-19:36 | Lake Pickle’s backstory & podcasting work | | 20:41-23:48 | “Hunting Wives” TV show: critique & pop culture | | 24:03-26:59 | Viral “baiting on public land” fake news incident | | 27:18-32:13 | Baiting whitetails: controversy & ecological cost | | 34:39-36:24 | Montana wolf hunting & media coverage review | | 36:24-37:33 | Texas dove population stats—good news | | 37:36-39:20 | Hunters as public heroes (Maine shooting story) | | 40:06-47:18 | Gulf pogie bycatch crisis explained | | 47:59-49:54 | Mississippi’s new turkey stamp | | 50:17-51:26 | Next podcast: mysteries of the Gulf Coast |

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Overall Tone & Closing

The episode is grounded and accessible, filled with humor, regional pride, and a mix of skepticism and hopefulness about the future of hunting and conservation. Both hosts encourage critical thinking, active participation in conservation measures, and authenticity in representing hunting culture.

Closing:
Lake teases his upcoming podcast on Gulf mysteries; Brittany thanks him and celebrates the Southern accents, wrapping up with reminders about conservation action and responsible storytelling in hunting.

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For More:

• Check out Lake Pickle’s podcasts: “Speak the Language” and “Backwoods University” (MeatEater Network) for deeper dives into the wildlife stories and Gulf coast issues highlighted here.
• Follow The Origins Foundation for future roundups and advocacy updates.

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Transcript

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[Mike Axelrod]

So there's a reason why I started Blood Origins, and that reason is simple, is that I wanted to convey the truth about hunting.

[Lake Pickle]

It brings awareness to non hunters that it's more than just killing animals.

[Brittany]

How do I start it? Brittany?

[Lake Pickle]

My name.

[Brittany]

Does my hair look okay?

[Mike Axelrod]

My name is Mike Axelrod. Start again.

[Brittany]

Yeah, I hated it too.

[Mike Axelrod]

Braxton, you said something in the car to me. You said that you were living on borrowed time. There's a perception around who hunters are, what we're supposed to be. And a feminist that works for a non profit that is a hunter that has only eaten wild game for the last 20 years is likely not the thing that people think about when it comes to a hunter.

[Brittany]

Okay, Good morning, everyone. I have a special guest this morning, a fellow Mississippian, which I'm very excited about. We've got Lake Pickle on our roundup this week. Robbie's in South Africa and doing a little work and I think having a lot more fun than work. So kind of jealous. Lake and I are holding the fort back down here and he's agreed to host the roundup. And, and Lake, I'm looking at your background and I'm looking at my background and I'm feeling very deficient. How many, how many turkey tails are back there?

[Lake Pickle]

Ah, it was 50 something last time I counted. I tell everyone the same thing is like all this is a result of is my wife saying, make it fit in one room. That's all.

[Brittany]

This is what's okay. So I joke and it's not Really a joke. This is actually true that I basically hunt everything except for turkeys because that's what makes our marriage work, because my husband is a fanatical turkey hunter. So what. What's the actual proper terminology? Is that the fan?

[Lake Pickle]

That's a fan, yeah. Turkey fan.

[Brittany]

Okay, Well, I really like the way that looks. That's very, very cool. And you think you have 50 back there on the wall?

[Lake Pickle]

It's a little more than 50, especially because I've got like those down there on the floor that I haven't done yet. They actually brought this in there on Saturday. But yeah, it kind of happened by accident because I was trying. I had this idea that I want to make some kind of mural, and then this all kind of started overlapping and I was like, that actually looks kind of cool. So I just kind of kept it going.

[Brittany]

It does.

[Lake Pickle]

It goes up for a ways. I mean, it goes all the way up there.

[Brittany]

Oh, wow. I mean, you really are going to have an entire mural of turkey fans.

[Lake Pickle]

Hey, you know, some people are going.

[Brittany]

To try to copy that with actual, like, wallpaper mural.

[Lake Pickle]

Oh, you know, I. I had a lot of folks when I started started doing like, some videos from inside my office here. I had a lot of people asking how I did that. And so I actually did a little video tutorial because that's like a. That's a key piece right back there, that pegboard lean up against the wall. That's how I. I do most of it. But. But yeah.

[Brittany]

Okay. So I guess my next question is, are turkeys your favorite thing to hunt?

[Lake Pickle]

Turkeys? Turkeys grabbed my heart first. They were. They were my first love in the world of hunting is that.

[Brittany]

Did you start when you were a little boy?

[Lake Pickle]

I killed my first turkey when I was 12 years old.

[Brittany]

Okay.

[Lake Pickle]

I shot some deer prior to. I'd been dove hunting a little bit, but I didn't grow up in a turkey hunting family. And so my dad was. We. We whitetail hunted a little bit and fished a lot. That's where the name lake came from. And yeah, I crossed paths with some guys at church that always were talking about spring turkey hunting. And I was very add. And so as I got older, especially sitting in a tree stand and just seeing what shook out got less enticing to me. And the thought of like moving about through the woods and, you know, just so many changing and moving variables was. Sounded pretty cool. And yeah, I had a guy named Keith Polt that. That Robbie knows as well. Take me when I was 12 years old and shot My first turkey and it was all a spiral ever since.

[Brittany]

Yeah, that's. So there must be something to it. And well, and I will say I have been, but I haven't had that adrenaline rush experience and we'll talk about my experience in a minute. But my little boys, if you ask them and you know, we take on whitetail hunting, duck hunting, turkey hunting, but if you say, what's your favorite thing to hunt? They both say turkeys. And yet neither one of them, they. One just turned eight and the other one is nine. Neither one of them has actually shot one solo. So you would think that their favorite thing to hunt would be something they've actually, you know, killed by themselves. But they've been with their father and they've both heard and seen birds and they've seen the strutting and I think they just, there's just so much excitement around it and I mean they love it. Literally. My. The one that just turned 8 asked for a ghillie suit for his birthday. That was the number one thing all year long. He wanted a ghillie suit. A ghillie suit. So the thing that came in the mail, I will have to say I think we've got a long way to go on youth. Ghillie suits is. It looks like a swamp monster outfit.

[Lake Pickle]

Hey look, save money on Halloween costumes this year.

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[Brittany]

Well, that's what he said. He's I said what do you want to give her as Halloween? This is this week because of course, you know, Halloween decor is up even though it's still August. And he said I want to wear the ghillie suit. And I said well you know what? You will definitely scare some people.

[Lake Pickle]

Nailed it.

[Brittany]

Wishes in that. Yeah. So it's fine. So we've got look, it's here. It's finally here. Hunting season at least for for us. Well everywhere, everywhere. The the northern states start even earlier on some of the bigger game. But I mean you and I have this this weekend for we start is it Sunday or Monday for doves?

[Lake Pickle]

Monday Monday, Labor Day.

[Brittany]

I know there's always a big fight over whether they're going to move it back, and. Which is so funny to me. I was talking to some of the biologists, and apparently they've tried to. They were going to move it back, but it's such a tradition to start on Labor Day that people were like, no, no, no, you can't do it. You can't do it. You can't do it. So it's always September 1st in Mississippi, right?

[Lake Pickle]

It's always September 1st. Yeah, as far as I know. But it always. It gets. I don't know, sometimes it falls. You know, folks get upset because it's on a Monday and they want to be able to hunt their field that Saturday, so.

[Brittany]

Right.

[Lake Pickle]

You probably know people as well. Like, I know folks that they're not even hunting on Monday. They're waiting until that next Saturday because they want the whole weekend experience. Because you and I both know how big of a social event dove hunting is.

[Brittany]

Oh, huge. Huge. Yeah. No, that's completely true. In fact, some people were going to have their big opening. I mean, dove hunts in. In the south, or I would say all around the south are parties as much as they are hunts. It's kind of a co. Co sort of thing. And some people were going to move their one on the first to the six. But then a baseball season has also started and football season. So there are all these things conflicting in the hunting world, which is sort of hard. In fact, one of the. We always go on this fun annual dove hunt in the Delta, and we have a baseball tournament. And so my husband and I are going to have to split up, and I'm. I'm going to the dove hunt, and he's going to man the fort with the baseball tournament. I know, I know. I feel sort of bad, but I mean, you know, I consider it work. It's fun, but I can play the. Well, that's, you know, it's work for me.

[Lake Pickle]

Yeah. Yeah. I. I just, golly, thought of missing dove hunting for baseball, but, I mean, hey, you know, I know what you got to do, I guess.

[Brittany]

I know. I know it's hard when you're on a team. You got to carry through those commitments.

[Lake Pickle]

Yeah.

[Brittany]

Okay, so tell me. Talk to me about what you're doing. I mean, I feel like you have just exploded on the scene this past year, and I feel like you've. You know, I've known of your name for several years, and you and I have just really gotten to know each other kind of this past year, running into each other, different events and things. And I've been watching you on social media and just really enjoy everything that you do and everything you put out there. And so kind of talk to me about like, what's going on. Just fill us in on like, you have a big new podcast that I think is receiving a lot of attention and congratulations on that. And so thank you. Just kind of tell me about everything.

[Lake Pickle]

Yeah. So one. Thank you. Truly. Thank you. It's been, it's been a crazy. Not like a calendar year starting honestly about from October of 24, so about a year to now. It's just been wild. We had so for just like a quick. For those that don't know, like a little bit of catch up in context here. I actually, the reason I even know Robbie is Robbie was my. Was a professor of mine when I was a freshman at Mississippi State University. And that's how him and I got to know each other was from that one class. I went on to go work for Primos Hunting for nine years. And I started doing a podcast at Primos in 2017. It's called the Speak the Language podcast. A lot of things changed at Primos. A lot of things changed with me. I started dating Lacey, who I'm married to now, and I needed to kind of back off traveling all the time because at Primos, I mean, I'd be gone for 30 plus days at a time sometimes and I just, I needed to kind of slow down.

[Brittany]

Lives don't typically enjoy that.

[Lake Pickle]

That man. But look, bless her heart though. Lacy put up. We. We dated for a couple years when I was in the throes of Primos. And so she, she tolerated it for a long time. But I got a job at Onyx Hunt, which I still currently do, and was able to. So many things changed at Primos and basically I was able to get full ownership of that podcast that I started at Primos called the Speak the Language podcast with me and Jordan Blissett still do, and we're currently doing that. And I got contacted by Clay Newcombe from Meat Eater and he was like, man, how would you feel about doing a podcast on the Meat Eater Podcast Network? And I was like, yes, I want to do that.

[Brittany]

Right, Right, Yeah. Question.

[Lake Pickle]

Yeah, it was a curveball I didn't see coming. But we, it was a long time kind of just getting everything in place and figuring out exactly what we wanted that show to be. And what we kind of landed on was when it first started out was going to be a wildlife biology podcast. Like, just wildlife biology.

[Brittany]

Because you. You do have your. Well, you have your biology degree, right? Your wildlife biology degree. Did you end up. What did you end up with?

[Lake Pickle]

Say I was the first wildlife student to ever get granted permission to finish their degree online.

[Brittany]

Okay, so that's still a degree.

[Lake Pickle]

Yeah, it is. So I got. I have the piece of paper that says I did school. I have that. I had a year. I had basically a year and a half of classes left when Primos offered me a job. And, you know, it was like one of those things, like, Brad Ferris called me and, like, would you consider taking a semester off school? Because I need someone to film at Elk Hunt in two weeks. I was like, I'm going to do that. You know. Right, right. So, yeah, I had to finish online. And so ba. I have a interdisciplinary bachelor. I have to remember it. Bachelor arts, Bachelor of the arts, and interdisciplinary studies with focus on wildlife, fisheries and aquaculture, science and communications.

[Brittany]

Sounds like you have everything you need to know for what you're doing now.

[Lake Pickle]

Yeah, something like that. Yeah. But I was. We started storyboarding some episodes out, and I was talking to Clay, and I was like, clay, I don't think this needs to be just wildlife biology. And he's like, what do you mean? I was like, man, I can't talk about a particular wildlife species or a process or a population without mentioning the influence that humans have on it, positive or negative. And that's what it kind of. Kind of is. Like. We. We do deep dives on species, we do deep dives on wildlife stories and just particular incidents. But there's always, like, there's always a callback to how humans are influencing it. And sometimes it's very negative, sometimes it's very positive. Probably the most. The. The best one to point at to. To give an example of that, and probably the most popular episode we've put out so far was about Fanny Cook.

[Brittany]

Oh, yes. Who we have a. You know, she is near and dear to our heart because she happens to be my little boy's girl, Great great, great aunt, my husband's great great aunt. But she's an icon.

[Lake Pickle]

And I didn't know that until I saw you post something about it. And I was like. And the. And the episode was like, coming out soon. And I was like, you're related to Fanny Cook.

[Brittany]

In fact, while we were at ducks. Yeah, at the weekend of the ducks expo. No, not the ducks expo. Was it dsc Dallas. The vent for her. So they got to go. The recreation. And, yeah, Kathy Shropshire dresses up as her Every year. And so I hate we missed that. Yeah, the boys were there.

[Lake Pickle]

I know.

[Brittany]

We're gonna get her name on that museum. We're gonna do it.

[Lake Pickle]

She. Man, if anyone ever deserves more credit, that's how. Like, I. I. The only reason I know about Fanny Cook is I came across her name by accident. I was doing research on turkey stuff, and I saw a name that I had not seen.

[Brittany]

Unbelievable. And if anyone wants to Google her, it's F, A, N, N, Y, E. So it's an unusual spelling, but. But she was the first wildlife biologist in Mississippi. Founded the agency. Wildlife Agency Lake. You've actually probably done more research on her than I have, but founded the Museum of Natural Science. I mean, she's just. Basically. She did all the taxidermy. Right? I mean, all the stuff. So many of the stuff. Species and birds.

[Lake Pickle]

And she would go and. And collect birds specimens herself, and then she would go and do the taxidermy herself and then put it in a. Like, she would create small little dioramas and cart them around to different fairs to show people. I mean, just like, just a level of drive that you don't see.

[Brittany]

And those are still today, many of them in the Mississippi Museum of Natural Science.

[Lake Pickle]

Yeah, I wouldn't.

[Brittany]

Yeah, they're so cool.

[Lake Pickle]

Yeah. I went up there to the museum and I told him briefly what I was doing. I was like, hey, I'm working for this. Working on this podcast for Meat Eater. And, you know, and next thing I know, they took me back there and they have. They have the stuff that you can go. Like, anybody can go in and see the Fanny Cook display. It has some of her original taxidermy. But then, like, back in, like their. Back in their archives, I mean, they had some of these still in the wooden. Like, small, tiny little dioramas they call them, that she would have put in the. In the trucks and driven them to fairs. They still have those.

[Brittany]

Okay, we're gonna have to go see if we can maybe look at those sometime.

[Lake Pickle]

I pro. They. I bet they would. It was. It was pretty because, I mean, they let me look at them, hold them, all this stuff, and it was pretty wild because at that point, I had done so much research on her and her work, it was crazy to just, like, hold one of those things that she used to do her presentation.

[Brittany]

That is fascinating. Well, I am excited for you and love listening to you and just love everything that you're doing and for conservation and hunting and. And proud that you're a fellow Mississippian. So this. There were so Many things I want to talk to you about. We Roundup is about sort of the news of the week and there's a lot going on. There's a lot going on. One with different states opening up their seasons, passing the regulations, their bag limits, all that kind of stuff. And then there's also a lot going on just randomly in entertainment and news and. All right, I'm gonna ask you this because I am literally getting asked this question just about every other day right now. Have you watched Hunting Wise?

[Lake Pickle]

I've. Short answer, no. Long answer. I've been talked about it, talked to about it so much I feel like I've watched it, I've heard some very explicit things about it.

[Brittany]

So I am going to just go right out here and put this out there. It is basically smut, I'm not gonna lie. And so I have mixed feelings about this. It's. It is. I don't understand why they had to put so much explicit sex in the show. And it is entertainment. But I would never have continued watching this show unless I wanted to be able to talk to people about this because it is bringing so much awareness to hunting. And I don't know what the point. So it's based on a book and I haven't read the book, but it is just crazy to me the things that are depicted in there. And so they, they're normalizing hunting and they're normalizing these wives hunting, which is on one hand cool and great, but the way they're doing it is so, so far from reality. At least my reality or any reality I've ever known. I mean, nobody dresses like they do. They don't. Most people I know don't drink non stop while they're hunting. They don't shoot off a boat. Let's take the pontoon boat out and go shooting. I mean like from the boat. I mean it's just like these crazy scenarios. So I'm like, okay, can we get something real about this out here? So I did see that a network is now recruiting for, for a reality version of Hunting Wives. And so if you're interested in doing that, just google reality hunting lives because they're trying to do kind of like a Housewives of Orange county, you know, one of those kind of things. Maybe we can get a little more realistic version of this out there with some, you know, normaly. Don't watch the show if your kids are in the room. I will say that.

[Lake Pickle]

Right, right. So. So my wife, like I came home when, I don't know, close to whenever the show came out, and I come home, and, like, Lacey's like, the most innocent person you'd ever meet, you know? Like, I don't think she's ever. I've never heard us. Heard her cuss in the entirety of us being together. She's just like. And I come home and she just has this, like, this. This shocked look on her face, and like, she'd done something like, what is wrong with you? And she was like, I saw this show on the Netflix menu, and. And I. And so, like, little backstory. Like, Lacy has really dove into this hunting stuff. Like, she. She hunted some with her dad growing up, but she really hunts a lot more now. Goes to me. And so she sees this show called Hunting Wives, and she's like, oh, how great, right? And she's like, I turned this show on. She was like, I. I just. I don't. I don't think I should have watched that. I don't think I should watch that at all.

[Brittany]

Look, it, I would save yourself the trouble because the ending is not any better than the beginning. And so I. I think they meant to leave it a cliffhanger, maybe for season two, I don't know. But it is just. Yeah, we. We got to do better, people. And people in Hollywood, please make us a better hunting show. That's all I'm going to say.

[Lake Pickle]

Just to acc.

[Brittany]

And maybe not quite so explicit would be appreciated. So. So what else? What? Have you seen anything pique your interest this week?

[Lake Pickle]

The most. Probably the funniest one, I guess I could call, I should say, is happened within our own state of Mississippi.

[Brittany]

I know what you're about to talk about.

[Lake Pickle]

So we all know. I mean, and this isn't even AI. It's not. But, like, in the world of. Of so many AI Quote deep fakes and people posting videos that aren't real, creating fake news posts like, that happens all the time.

[Brittany]

Right?

[Lake Pickle]

So there is this. And I have it here.

[Brittany]

I was just about to try to pull it up. I know what you're gonna talk about.

[Lake Pickle]

I've got it.

[Brittany]

Some of the Facebook comments from people.

[Lake Pickle]

I don't have the comments. No, I just. So this was a. A post. It was a. It was a screenshot that was pretending to be a news post for Mississippi Department of Wildlife, Fisheries and Parks. And I'm going to read this just as it was posted, misspellings and all. So, Mississippi Department Wildlife, Fisheries and Parks, we are excited to announce that we will allow baiting and feeders on all public hunting lands in Mississippi for The. In Mississippi, the 25, 26 hunting season, we want more people to enjoy the natural recourses of our state that our state provides at a later date, information on how to purchase your baiting permit will be sent out. I read that and immediately go. Someone figured out how to make. How to make a fake news post. The amount of people that believed that to be real.

[FishingBooker Advertiser]

Believed it, really believed it.

[Brittany]

So excited.

[Lake Pickle]

Some of them got so excited. Some of them got irate.

[Brittany]

There was arguing.

[Lake Pickle]

Uh, I mean, just some. It was. I mean, I've told people sometimes, like, if I want to, like, put myself in a state of losing hope, I go read Facebook comments. And this was a perfect example of that. I was like, guys, just the fact that some of y' all are even thinking that this is real. So much so that the actual Mississippi Department of Wildlife, Fisheries and Parks had to come out and make a public statement and go, hey, this is fake. This isn't happening.

[Brittany]

Like, in what world I know and.

[Lake Pickle]

Are people living in.

[Brittany]

Fine. They must have deleted everything, because I can't find the. The comments from these people were just. They blew my mind. They blew my mind. I mean, just. Just talking through how it would work and how. How they. But, I mean, who would do that? I would. Look, it was a really. It was a. A very creative prank that I think served its purpose in getting everyone riled up. But it sure was, I don't think, productive to the community.

[Lake Pickle]

Yeah, I mean, it was funny. Don't get me wrong. I can see the humor in it. The. The. Where I just kind of shake my head is the people that actually read that and went, yep, this is definitely true.

[Brittany]

Like, excited, because it was like, this frenzy, oh, my gosh, we're going to go be able to bait on public lands. And you and I have very, very similar thoughts about baiting. And, you know, neither one of us thinks it's doing our wildlife a whole lot of good or that it's needed or necessary.

[Lake Pickle]

But I. I make no bones about it, man. I. I mean, people. I. I tell people I have what I believe to be, at least locally, an unpopular opinion. I make. I do not like baiting for whitetail deer in any. I don't agree with the way that it's set right now. I don't think it's beneficial in the long run. I think it's shortsighted. I think it has more negative outcomes that has positive. And I say that all the say, like, let me not try and put myself on a high horse here. I have where Legal. I have deer hunted with the use of bait before, and I have formed the opinion that I have now based off of doing both. And I think that we would be more benefited going forward if we did not have baiting. That's just, that's my.

[Brittany]

No, I agree with you, but I'm just curious because you do have such a public voice now. Do you get a lot of pushback on that opinion? Yeah.

[Lake Pickle]

Oh, yeah, yeah, very much so. A lot of it has to do, like I tell you, where a lot of it is to, to May. I mean, there's several, but, like, here's the two big ones. The first one is, folks will say that, like, we do this to help our deer herd is the one that you hear a lot. And when I hear that, I, I take it at face value. I'm like, okay, if you genuinely, if that's genuinely what you. After, what you are after, trying to better your deer herd with this supplemental feeding, we'll call it, you know, use a euphemism, more or less, then basically you've been lied to by, by supplemental feeding companies because especially, like, the, the primary ones that get used are corn or rice bran. You're not helping any deer herd with that. You're not, you're not, you're not. I mean, you're just not. And the other, the other one that I hear is like, we're trying to increase opportunity. That one I, I can, I can understand. You know, they're talking about, like, hey, we're busy. You know, the kids have all these sports, and, you know, we want to be able to have opportunity. I'm like, I, I, I can understand that. And, and, but again, it's like one, you don't want to cut off your nose to spite your face in the sense of, I mean that in a couple different facets. Like, one, just long term, like, long term for the, the health, for the actual health of the species. I don't think it benefits deer herd. Two, I told this to somebody the other day when I was growing up, beer hunting, it was not, it was not legal at all. Like, supplemental feeding baiting was not legal at all. That's changed, obviously, when you heard, like, if you heard of somebody getting busted or getting a ticket for baiting. When I was growing up, deer hunting, they were like a social pariah in the hunting community. You have kids now. Talking about them. You want them to have opportunity. I understand that you have kids now that shooting a deer underneath a feeder, that's the only kind of hunting they.

[Brittany]

Know it's just so weird to me.

[Lake Pickle]

What do you like? You're not teaching woodsmanship, you're not teaching, I mean you may teach them how to hunt the wind because you still need to have the right wind to hunt the feeder. Maybe you do, but there's just so many missing steps.

[Brittany]

Managing your habitat there. I mean if it isn't already naturally there, which I would argue in Mississippi, a lot of the places it is, you know, I mean, yes, planting and science has shown that food plots work just as efficiently and well as feeders, but there's so many places in Mississippi. I mean we've got so many hardwoods and I mean so many things for them to eat throughout the state. There's a lot of areas you really don't need to do much. But, but if you do like put the time and effort into managing your habitat so that you cultivate the deer and, and then given the larger picture of the CWD situation and wanting to sustain our herd long term, I just think that we're, we are hurting ourselves. I agree with you. So I get so much pushback on that as well. People want to easy out and I do too. They want to easy out.

[Lake Pickle]

Yeah, right. And I tell folks all the time, you know, cuz cwd, everyone knows CW is controversial. And I, I tell them, I'm like, I can make my opinion, I can make my argument to you, I can state my case about baiting and I can leave CWD out of it if you want me to. Like, I, like, I think I can make a strong enough case without like if CWD didn't exist. And I, and I truly believe that the other thing is like baiting is such a self perpetuating issue. And what I mean is I know people, you probably do too, that they'll, they'll be talking to me and they're like, lake, I don't want to bait deer. I have no desire to shoot a deer at a, at a feeder. But my neighbors to the north and to the west and to the south of me are all running feeders. And I can do all they have. You know, it's, it's a self, there's folks that are running feeders, they don't want to because it does have such a vacuum.

[Brittany]

I hear that all the time. I don't want to put feeders out, but all my neighbors have them out. So if I don't, they're going to go to my neighbors. And I especially hear that down near Louisiana and our farms down south. So yeah, now I Hear it all the time. I hear it all the time. Well, talking about controversy in the, in the environmental world, we're going to switch species right now. So Montana just repassed their wool cutting season and they increased their tags because they have seen an increase in the species numbers and they've divided it up into several regions. They've got regions now. And I mean, you can, we're not going to go into the details here because people can literally, you can google Montana wolf harvest season and pull up all the specifics if you'd want the very detailed breakdown. So on one hand we've got Montana saying we've got more wolves, we need, you know, higher quota. And then we have this article from the Guardian out that just came out on Friday that says that the science has shown and the research was published in something called Science Advances and it says that wolf hunting in western US does little to prevent livestock losses. So apparently they've studied this over a number of years. Now this, we're talking the Guardian right here. So I don't even know. You know, this is a historically left leaning publication. Look, I'm not gonna lie. I sometimes read the Guardian. They have very interesting articles out about human rights all over the world, all sorts of different things. But when they wade into the hunting issues, you kind of scratch your head sometimes. And I'm just curious about this. So it says it takes, okay, 14 wolves would have to be killed in order to save one cow, which is kind of an interesting theory. They're saying the analysis showed eliminating one wolf only amounts to protecting 7% of a single cow. They're really unusual statistic. But, you know, they're saying that essentially wolf hunting was reintroduced in 2009 in Montana and Idaho. And since that time they've reviewed trends in wolf numbers, government removals, livestock depredation between 2005 and 2021, and that the hunting doesn't seem to be helping the livestock depredation situation. And I think that that could be interpreted all sorts of different ways.

[Lake Pickle]

Yeah, yeah, it's, it's a pretty ambiguous study they got going there. What's like you, you never want to put out an article that's, that's, you know, poised as publishing the results of a study when I can skim it in five minutes and figure out where your biases are, you know what I mean?

[Brittany]

Yeah. Because at the end, they say the researchers, however, are not aiming to have their findings used in the wolf hunting debate. So. Well, okay, so, but the entire article is framed around wolf hunting then There's a quote by the co author of the study. She told this to npr. This paper isn't about whether or not we should be hunting. We're talking about finding a management tool that will help ranchers manage livestock predation. So if hunting isn't the tool to manage livestock predation, hunting and trapping. And they, they group hunting and trapping in here, they kind of interchange it a lot in this article in the NPR thing. What, what, what would that management tool be? I mean.

[Lake Pickle]

Yeah. Did they pose any sort of solution or did they just kind of be like. Well, we don't know. But it's not this.

[Brittany]

No, they did not. And meanwhile, we're continuing the reintroduction efforts in a number of states all over, especially, you know, the Northern Territories. But I just thought that was a very. It's just kind of an example of what goes out into the media and it just. They send these things out. No solution. No, I mean, this random study, what does that even mean? Oh, and we don't want it to, you know, we don't want to be using the debate and honey, we're just, we're just letting you know. Okay, thanks, guys.

[Lake Pickle]

Yeah, yeah. And if people will believe a fake public land baiting post from ndwfp, then they'll believe something like that.

[Brittany]

They will, they'll believe everything. Um, yeah, so we have some really, really good dove statistics that have come out in Texas this week. Apparently a big 5% increase since last year, which is. It sounds like a. Yeah, sounds like a lot to me. Mourning doves statewide estimate, 35.9 million 5% increase from 2024, 28% above the long term average. And then white wing doves, the. That's 4% increase from 2023. So I don't know why we were looking at 2024 and then 2023, but they must only do, they must only do a survey every couple years or something like that. So Texas, you've got a lot of doves, lots of doves. So you're doing something right down there and hope you all get out there and shoot them.

[Lake Pickle]

Yeah, granted, you know, I, I don't look at dove stats as much as I do like waterfowl or something like that, but I know if like the waterfowl population stats came out and we saw a 5% increase, which the duck hunters would be dancing in the streets. So it sounds good to me.

[Brittany]

Static. Yes. And that, wouldn't that be something if we got a statistic like that for ducks?

[Lake Pickle]

Oh, yeah. I'd be Pumped.

[Brittany]

Okay, we have some hunters who were heroes this week in. I think it was Maryland. These. Maine. Sorry, it was Maine. These hunters literally saw a shooting going on on the highway next to them. And these hunting guides, they happened to be in a U Haul and chased this shooter down. Ran into him. That still didn't stop him. He kept going. They were going through apparently a Walmart parking lot, different places. He's like, bullets are flying. At one point, I think the guy's on a motorcycle. At one point, he turns around, points the gun at the hunting guides in the U Haul and they duck and ram the engine. Only somehow they. They went the wrong way when they did that. So he. He flees. He gets away. But because they, I guess, did so much damage to him, he. The police, they, you know, called it in. Police got on his tail and were able to apprehend. I say apprehend this guy. I think when the police closed in on him, he ended up taking himself out. But. But they were like the police kept telling. Apparently the police were on the. What do you call it, the radio or something saying. Or phone. I don't know what they were talking on, but they were saying, don't chase him, don't chase him, don't chase him. And these guys were going, well, if we're not going to. I mean, they literally saw him shooting people, we're not going to. Yeah, who knows what else he's going to do?

[Lake Pickle]

So, yeah, somebody's got to chase.

[Brittany]

I mean, I think that's pretty good hero. We give those heroes of the week.

[Lake Pickle]

Hey, hey. Good for them, especially if they kept anybody else from getting hurt. And I mean, heck, I mean, anytime we can get some positive light on some hunters, we don't get a lot of that in the mainstream press. So I'll take it.

[Brittany]

Exactly. We need all the good news we can take. Okay. For you. Sent me an article that I thought was very interesting, and I like that you sent it to me because the Origins foundation is starting to get into more phishing issues. We're trying to. We, in fact, if anyone's out there and would love to help us take the lead on H2 origins, that is kind of on the horizon because right now we have to. There's so, so many fish issues. So many issues, especially right now this time of year. But this was interesting. Talking about pogi slash menhaden and the not so great ramifications of the pogie fishing industry, which has been controversial for years.

[Lake Pickle]

Honestly, it man so the first time. So like. Like a little Bit of a, like a preview here. Like I'm doing a whole episode on this issue for, for Backwood University. Yeah, yeah. And so I was doing a. I was on a fishing trip. This is a year or two ago. My buddy Travis, Ontario, Louisiana, and a pokey boat, you know, went by in the distance and I just kind of acknowledged it. And my buddy Travis, that's from down there, fished on there his whole life. He's just said, yeah, that's what's destroying our fishery. And I was like, say what? You know. You know, a statement like that will catch your attention. And so basically it's all based off of this study that came out from the, just the 2024 season. These Pogi boats is a, is a, you know, the common term for them, but they're basically harvesting Gulf menhaden, I believe is the correct term. And this study just went into like a thorough examination of the amount of bycatch, which means, you know, fish other than their target species, which is pogi, that were making into those nets and were dying. We're getting killed because, you know, basically.

[Brittany]

I mean, Poggy's a bait case. It's a bait fish for people that aren't familiar.

[Lake Pickle]

Small fish. Yeah.

[Brittany]

So the nets are supposed to be small to catch these little bitty bait fish.

[Lake Pickle]

Right, right. And so it's, you know, it's called by catch, you know, because they'll say, we know we have no interest in catching bull redfish. We have no interest in ca, you know, and netting speckled trout or croaker. But like some of the numbers that came out in one season were astounding.

[Brittany]

Shocked by what you sent me.

[Lake Pickle]

81 million croaker. 81 million?

[Brittany]

Yeah.

[Lake Pickle]

That's 240,000 speckled trout, 22,000 breeding size.

[Brittany]

Redfish and that, that insane self. Considering how tight the redfish seasons are and people constantly complaining about the numbers and not enough time to fish, not a long enough season for them to be allowing that much by catch to me is shocking. But you know, I don't know that they knew before the study came out how much by catch was going on.

[Lake Pickle]

Yeah, they, they, they didn't not. I mean, I mean there was, I shouldn't say they didn't, but they didn't know. This is, like I said, this is the most thorough look into it that anyone has ever done. And so you know what, I know what the, the gentleman that I talked to, Chris from trcp, Chris Macaluso, basically what they're.

[Brittany]

Yeah, knows his stuff. He's from Louisiana originally.

[Lake Pickle]

Yeah, passionate guy on the subject. And, and basically it's like you're trying to find some sort of middle, middle ground because obviously this, this pogi boat industry serves a purpose that has jobs and employees, people just trying to find a better route with this sort of thing because you get, you can't look at these numbers and just imagine like, okay, this has no effect on the rest of the Gulf. 20. Oh, we didn't even mention this one. 25 million sand trout, which is commonly, if you go fish down that, down there, they refer to as white trout. 25 million. 25 million.

[Brittany]

And, and this is not a new debate. The very first, first Mississippi DMR meeting I ever went to, our marine resources, their commission meeting, years, years and years ago, well over a decade, there was a huge menhaden slash pogie issue on the agenda and the room was packed. I mean it was standing room only. And there's just been a constant debate about, you know, how far off the coast they have to remain, you know, the types of nets, the, you know, this just all sorts of the different regulations. And it never seems to end. There's an entire menhaden association or I don't, they have a very specific name I'd have to get my email to, but I can loop you into that. But they have regular meetings to work on this issue and it's a huge coalition of people. I mean, because there's also ongoing allegations that the way that they fish with these, these person fishing methods contributes to beach erosion and habitat loss and that they need these buffer zones which a lot of states have them, but they have different buffer zones and different, different lengths of them. And so it's just, it's just kind of this, I mean, something needs to happen eventually. But I mean they're very strong advocates on both sides. Like you say. Like you say. I mean, because I think that they supply bait fish for a lot of the industry across the country because there's so many of them down there. So I'm not an expert on this. I just kind of, I would say passively monitor it and have ever since that very first meeting. And so I kind of keep just enough on, up on the issue to be slightly dangerous.

[Lake Pickle]

Yeah, it's one of those things I've learned. It's a, it's almost an out of sight, out of mind kind of thing. And, and what I mean is, because I've just, I've done a couple of episodes I'm working on coming up out the Gulf and this is just One of them. But it's so interesting because you put something below the surface of the water, like all the life and the, you know, the go, everything that is in the Gulf, we can't see it for the most part. You know what I mean? You can't see a lot of that stuff had happened and so we don't see it as much. Like if this kind of stuff, like imagine, I don't know, I don't even know an apples to apples comparison of it. But if we had something that was causing this much, you know, bycatch kill off above ground, it, people would be losing their minds over it. Well, and so much so when I.

[Brittany]

Opened up your article, I was shocked. Shocked. I mean that will get people. So these, this study is going to people's attention.

[Lake Pickle]

These boats, they only operate during the weekdays basically because like they don't want to be out there doing what they do on weekends because it's such a gory affair. Like they don't want people seeing what's going on because I mean it's is bloody. It's not pretty.

[Brittany]

So I read some of the comments underneath the article and the allegations were pretty, pretty wild, pretty intense. I mean there were some people railing on the Gulf States Marine Commission saying that they were protecting the industry and that some of the largest commercial operators were members and stakeholders of the Gulf States Marine Commission. I don't know if any of that is true. I mean this, this was, these were comments made under an article. And so I have not had a chance to try to go run any of that down. But hopefully you can as you are coming out with this, this podcast that I'll be so interested to listen to.

[Lake Pickle]

It is a, it is a multi layered issue, as many of them are.

[Brittany]

Sounds like it. It sounds like it. I love that. Well, what else can do we have anything else news, news worthy that we can think of this week? I mean, wildness in Mississippi, lots of opening seasons around the country. Go get your licenses, get them up to date online. We'll be gearing up for legislative sessions kind of throughout the fall. People will be lining up their different bills and so we'll start paying attention really closely to commission meetings and what they have on the agendas and changes so that we can report back.

[Lake Pickle]

But yeah, ah, I got one, I got one. So, and y' all may have talked about this already, but the first like the first artwork was approved for the first ever Mississippi turkey stand just a few days ago.

[Brittany]

I saw that, I saw the pictures. It was really good. And I was happy to see that a bunch of people submitted.

[Lake Pickle]

Yeah. Yeah. I was talking to Adam Butler, who I have a lot of respect for, and he was going on and on about that. He was like, man, we just didn't know how many people were actually going to, you know, engage in doing some artwork and trying to get. And he said they were pretty blown away by the amount of people that.

[Brittany]

Yeah, I think it's great. You know, that took several years to get that. And you, I know, were helpful in that effort to get the turkey first turkey stamp for the state of Mississippi passed. And we kept trying to tell legislators, turkey hunters want this bill, sportsmen want this bill. And. And it was very hard for them to fathom. I mean, it's not very much. It's not very much money at all. Yeah, nothing. But. But cumulatively, it does a lot, and it will do a lot for turkey habitat. And so many other states already have these. And so people were already voluntarily buying the Mossy Oak turkey stamp just to help. And so this is going to go so much farther to creating turkey habitat. We hope that we see it spread even to more and more and more states around the country. But, yeah, it's just a hard concept for leg. Legislators will get, you know, one or two or three or four or five calls from somebody just raising hell about, like, I don't want to pay another, you know, fee. It's another tax, whatever. And so, you know, sometimes those voices are so loud and we don't think about. We've got to just keep encouraging hunters. You've got to make those calls, too, you know, because the four calls make as much difference as the against calls. The against just sometimes tend to be louder for whatever reason.

[Lake Pickle]

Yeah. Yeah. More impassioned sometimes. But this is nothing but a. I mean, this is all positive. This turkey stamp, it's huge. It's huge. It's a. It's a huge step in the right direction.

[Brittany]

It's going to be fantastic. Well, I appreciate you coming on today. When can we expect your next podcast to draw? Is it. Is it ever. Is it a certain day every week, or is it here and there? What's the schedule?

[Lake Pickle]

Monday? It's. It's every other week on Mondays. And so this past month. We had a pollinator episode come out last Monday, and so this next Monday will be first episode on the.

[Brittany]

Oh, good.

[Lake Pickle]

Yeah, yeah. We don't get into the. The pogy stuff in this episode. We get into a lot of other crazy stuff. Do you know we had. Did you know the do you know the only photograph of a live giant squid happened in the Gulf of 60, 60 miles off Mississippi. The only live footage of a living giant squid is in Mississippi, is in North America. In North American waters. Is right off of Mississippi's coast.

[Brittany]

I had no idea. I would have thought that would be somewh foreign but not, not Mississippi Gulf coast. So is it going to be all sorts of fun, interesting facts like that?

[Lake Pickle]

Yeah, yeah. It's like I, I'm, I'm. That's how. That's what led to eventually. Like me working on the Pog boat episode because again, it's like that's where I was like, man, we. There's just so much stuff that happens under that water that we just don't think about it because it's, it's under the water. We don't see it.

[Brittany]

Okay, I can't wait for that one. That's going to be great. You want to learn about the Gulf coast, listen to the upcoming podcast. And in the meantime, thank you for hopping on with me today. And happy opening season weekend.

[Lake Pickle]

Thoroughly enjoyed it. Thanks for having me on. Sorry my accent's not as good as Robbie's.

[Brittany]

I don't know. I appreciate the southern accent. They're both good. All right, everyone, have a good day. Thank you.

[Mike Axelrod]

Well, that's it for today. I appreciate you listening. As always, leave a review, share it with your friends and most importantly, do what's right to convey the truth. Around hunting.

[Narrator]

Bow hunting all comes down to a moment. And in the moment, you want equipment on your bow that will get the job done. Trophy Ridge products are the tools bow hunters trust. React technology sites, rests, stabilizers and quivers to help a bow hunter be successful successful in the field. And those tools are from Trophy Ridge.

[Melissa Bachman]

Hey guys, this is Melissa Bachman. Are you ready to stop spooking deer before it's even time to hunt them? Then you need the new Flex S Dark cellular trail camera from spypoint with a no glow flash option, long lasting solar power, and a ton of settings that can be changed anytime through the SpyPoint app. There are no more exceptions excuses for letting your deer get wise before the season even starts. So check it out for yourself and see why. The spypoint Flex S Dark is the unstoppable and undetectable scouting tool you need for your next hunt.