Roundup 159 || Opening hunting season, VT black bears, USDA roadless rule, record-breaking Atlantic halibut

Summary

The Origins Foundation Podcast - Roundup 159

Episode: Opening hunting season, VT black bears, USDA roadless rule, record-breaking Atlantic halibut
Date: September 10, 2025
Hosts: The Origins Foundation team (notably Mike, Ashley, and others)
Summary Prepared by: Podcast Summarizer

---

Overview

In Episode 159, the Origins Foundation team delivers a lively roundup of hunting season news, conservation hot topics, product updates, and some fun stories from the field. The group blends personal anecdotes, conservation policy analysis, and sharp-witted banter as they discuss recent adventures, key regulatory discussions like the USDA Roadless Rule, wildlife management (including exploding Vermont black bear numbers), and a young angler's record-breaking Atlantic halibut catch. The episode is packed with engaging commentary on the intersection of hunting, conservation, and storytelling—themes at the heart of the Origins Foundation.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Podcast Updates & Collaborations (04:22 – 15:12)

• Hat & Gear Highlights:
  Mike and Ashley open by showing off their new hats—Mike’s from John Dudley (Knock On) with a green light accessory, Ashley’s from Juniper Mountain Coffee promoting a new coffee collaboration.

  "Here's a few things for you to help the season be triumphant. And also I sent you another one to raise some money with." (John Dudley's note, 06:02)

• Product Collaborations:

  • Juniper Mountain Coffee collab ("Tuska" Dark Roast)—single-origin Panamanian bean with artwork from Katie Hargreaves, emphasizing the coffee’s conservation tie-in (11:25 – 13:32).
  • Berlabeau exclusive shirt release—a camo shirt with limited run. (13:32 – 15:44)

2. Recent Adventures & Conservation Partnerships (16:17 – 21:29)

• Robbie’s South African Hunting Trip:

  • Took his hunting mentor to Africa for the first time, where they spotted 32 different mammal species.
  • Notably encountered an aardwolf, a rare sighting in the wild, and harvested record-book springboks.

  "His common springbok was the 20th largest common springbok ever taken with a rifle, according to the record books." (19:20)

• Montana Fish Chiefs Gathering:

  • Ashley attended fisheries discussions with state and federal officials on interjurisdictional management.
  • Toured lands impacted by the federal Roadless Rule debate. (21:29 – 22:07)

3. USDA Roadless Rule & Public Lands Protection (22:07 – 27:51)

• What is the Roadless Rule? (Timestamps 22:07 – 25:05):

  • Protects ~58 million acres of National Forest from new roads/commercial timber harvest.
  • Designed to preserve watersheds, endangered habitats, and public access.

  "Every conservation group that you and I know and trust is out there defending it." – Ashley (24:39)

• Debate & Polarization:

  • Highlights the financial and political stakes in land use.
  • Public comment period for proposed changes ends September 19; listeners encouraged to participate.

4. Fisheries Issues: Invasive Carp & New Initiatives (28:09 – 32:41)

• Combating Invasive Carp:

  • Shifted terminology from "Asian carp" to "invasive carp".
  • Massive ecological and economic impact throughout the Mississippi River Basin.
  • Upcoming Origins Foundation documentary to spotlight the issue and promote the Mississippi River Basin Fishery Commission.

  "Once they infiltrate a waterway and especially start reproducing, they eat everything... every other bait fish, every other sport fish, they're taking the whole thing over." – Ashley (29:30)

5. Opening of Hunting Seasons & Wildlife Management (32:41 – 39:34)

• Dove Season Traditions & Regulatory Oddities:

  • Most states open dove hunting September 1 except Louisiana, which opens on the first Saturday for tradition.
  • Connecticut’s rule: Signed-in "Sunday hunting" for deer, but not for waterfowl.

• Vermont Black Bear Population Surge:

  • Bears are booming; numbers estimated between 6,800–8,000 against a target of 3,500–5,000.
  • Despite efforts (increased tags, hunting, auto mortalities), population keeps rising.
  • Vermont allows hound hunting but no baiting for bears. (34:17 – 36:33)

  "Apparently they are somewhere between 6,800 and 8,000 bears." – Ashley (34:46)

• Long Island Deer Overpopulation:

  • Officials plead with hunters to control deer population described as causing "wrecked cars and ruined crops".
  • Media coverage sensationalizes with phrases like "help slaughter deer".
  • Anti-hunters advocate for costly, impractical solutions like fertility control and transforming vegetation; attempts largely unsuccessful (e.g., Staten Island's failed vasectomy program, East Hampton's expensive sterilization with high deer mortality).

  "It cost $1,000 per deer. So they did it with 114 deer... doesn't sound like that'd make a dent in it." – Ashley (42:15)

6. Notable Fish and Game Stories (45:01 – 47:03)

• Record-breaking Atlantic Halibut:

  • 13-year-old Jackson Dinnio in New Hampshire landed a 177-pound halibut—50 lbs heavier than himself.
  • Atlantic halibut can reach astonishing sizes (historical record: 615 lbs off Massachusetts).

• Recent Giant Alligator Gar & Alligators:

  • Record alligator catch in the South; Ashley laments never hunting alligators in Mississippi.

7. Legislative Watch & Policy Tidbits (48:29 – 49:48)

• Semi-automatic Rifles for Big Game in Pennsylvania:
  • State may soon allow semi-auto rifles (limited to three shots) for big game; currently only PA and DE prohibit.
  • Hosts unsure similar prohibitions apply to Mississippi.

8. Listener Feedback & Community Building (51:09 – 54:13)

• Audience Letters & Texts:
  • Listeners share hunting stories, advocacy for sturgeon spear fishing in Wisconsin (Lake Winnebago season highlighted as a conservation success).
  • Hosts encourage audience to email news tips and ideas ([e-mail] or [e-mail]).

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On conservation’s complexity and inclusiveness:

  "With the Origins foundation, we wade into issues. We have to make decisions on what we engage in. ...A lot of things in America, and unfortunately, conservation, wildlife, environmental issues, hunting, fishing, there's a lot of money involved in all of it on both sides." – Ashley (25:05)

• On traditional hunting stereotypes:

  "A feminist that works for a nonprofit is a hunter that has only eaten wild game for the last 20 years is likely not the thing that people think about when it comes to a hunter." – Mike (01:31)

• On management vs. animal rights ideology:

  "At the end of the day... they just don't like the idea of somebody killing a deer. That's it. They actually don't care about the deer and its well-being and its population health. They don't care about it. They just don't want somebody killing it." – Mike (44:10)

• On the success of sturgeon conservation:

  "It's a whole culture around it and it's turned everyone who participates into a conservationist for lake sturgeon." – Ashley (53:03)

• Lighthearted banter:

  "I'm really glad you finished that sentence out. ...A little wiener dog, people. Come on, Ashley, get your head out the gutter." – Exchange between Mike & Ashley (10:03–10:27)

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

| Topic | Timestamp | |---------------------------------------------------------|-----------------| | Podcast intro, new merch & gear highlights | 04:22–15:12 | | Recent field adventures, South Africa, Montana update | 16:17–21:29 | | USDA Roadless Rule explained & debated | 22:07–27:51 | | Invasive carp issues and fishery commission campaign | 28:09–32:41 | | Opening hunting seasons, dove, bear, deer discussions | 32:41–39:34 | | Animal rights vs. lethal deer control methods | 39:34–44:44 | | Record Atlantic halibut; gator season | 45:01–47:58 | | Policy tidbits: semi-auto rifles for big game | 48:29–49:48 | | Listener engagement, sturgeon spear fishing | 51:09–53:46 |

---

Final Thoughts

This episode exemplifies the Origins Foundation’s signature fusion of humor, authenticity, and education. The hosts dissect controversial conservation issues with nuance, celebrate ethical hunting, and champion the science behind modern wildlife management—all while keeping things accessible and fun for listeners. The episode wraps with an invitation to join their participatory conservation community.

Contact:
[e-mail]
[e-mail]

---

For conservationists, hunters, and curious onlookers alike, this episode is a vibrant snapshot of both the challenges and the camaraderie of North American wildlife stewardship.

Transcript

[A]

Hunting is not easy. It never has been. It takes dedication, motivation, a lot of patience, and quality gear. If you manage a food plot, put up stands, or need just one more game camera, we can help. @midwayusa.com we opened our doors in 1977 and continue to put customers first by offering super fast same day shipping for just about everything. For the outdoors, go to midwayusa.com Midway USA has ammo for your next hunt. If it quacks, honks, whistles or cackles, snorts, gobbles, grunts, bleats, or bugles, you need to shop before your season starts. At Midway usa, the right hunting ammo makes all the difference. And at Midway usa, we've got a massive selection of premium hunting ammo from top brands like Winchester, Hornady and Federal. From big game to small varmint, you'll find the perfect load for every hunt. And with fast, reliable shipping, you'll be ready when the season starts for just about everything. For hunting, shop Midway.

[B]

So there's a reason why I started Blood Origins, and that reason is simple, is that I wanted to convey the truth about hunting. It brings awareness to non hunters that it's more than just killing animals.

[C]

How do I start it? Brittany?

[B]

My name.

[C]

Does my hair look okay?

[B]

My name is Mike Axelrod. Start again. Yeah, I hated it too. Braxton, you said something in the car to me. You said that you were living on borrowed time. There's a perception around who hunters are, what we're supposed to be. And a feminist that works for a nonprofit is a hunter that has only eaten wild game for the last 20 years is likely not the thing that people think about when it comes to a hunter. You could a green room with a green smoothie.

[C]

I'm. I'm. I was. I'm not going to say I'm so green because I'm not so green today.

[B]

You are.

[C]

People may. People may get the wrong idea.

[B]

What's in the green smoothie? Is it one you buy or did you make it?

[C]

Yeah. Oh, man. Thought I turned that off. It's icloud. It is green. Lemonade, apples, cucumbers, spinach, kale, lemons. I am trying to reset. I'm trying to detox from the summer.

[B]

Summer's gonna end. The detox is ending. You have to go to D.C. this week so that detox needs to be put on hold.

[C]

I'm not. I'm not doing it. I am going to. I've got. I've got some weight. I've drunk myself plump. See these cheeks?

[B]

Yeah. What do you say, did your. Your son goes past you and pinches you and goes, mom, yes.

[C]

Yes. The other day in the car, he was like, mom. I don't know if he was trying to get on my good side or what was going on, but he said, mom, you're so scared skinny. And I was like, what? He's like, you're really skinny. And I said, actually, I'm not. I've gained some weight. And he goes, yeah, you really have. I was like, what? You little. You know what? I'm not gonna say, wow. I didn't actually call him a bad word. But children will keep you.

[B]

He's honest. I like him being honest.

[C]

They will keep you humble. And it's true. It's just very. You know, the combination of summer weather and having children makes me want to have a glass of wine at night. But. But then. Then my body thinks that it needs to hold a few extra lbs.

[B]

Well, today was the first day I woke up. When I woke up this morning and took the dog for a walk, it was still dark, but it was cool this morning. I was just like, okay, fall is here. Maybe. Maybe fall is here. Finally.

[C]

It's so nice. I hope it stays. I actually took my dogs for a walk as well. They were so excited. They haven't. They haven't gone on a. In months.

[B]

You went on. You went on a walk in the dark this morning.

[C]

No, I didn't say dark. No. You know me better than that. No, after. After I got the kids to school.

[B]

Well, we have. Before we dive into all the news this week because it seems like there's a lot of it. There's a couple of things that are big happening on our end this week. So if you're watching this on YouTube, you can see I'm wearing a knock on John Dudley hat. If you're not watching us on YouTube, then you can't see the hat that I'm. I'm wearing. But I'm wearing a very specific hat. Ashley's wearing a very specific hat. So I'm going to talk about my hat first, and then we're going to talk about Ashley's hat.

[C]

Your hat looks like it may glow in the dark.

[B]

It may. Yeah. That's. I think John does a little knock on angle. Anyway, he sent me a gift. It's a big box, a big MKC box. Okay. And in the box is this hat, is an MKC hat. He's got these cool lights that pinch on the front of the hat. They're like green lights. And, you know, to get you through the woods. I got a cool note from him that said, miss you, bro. Here's a few things for you to help the season be triumphant. And so he's obviously got, he's got a new knife dropping on Thursday with Montana Knight Co. Called the Triumph. Here's the knife.

[C]

I like that.

[B]

Make sure I don't cup myself on this.

[C]

Oh, please don't on camera. Oh, it's green too.

[B]

Real nice. NKC knock on knife.

[C]

Yeah, that's pretty. I want one of the hats. I want a hat with the.

[B]

I'll send you this one. Oh, with the lights.

[C]

Thank you.

[B]

And then there's something else he sent. He put in here, the lights. A knock on accessory. I don't know what this accessory is. I'll have to ask him. Am I tied to archery hunting? Anyway, and then a big sticker, a knock on sticker. Okay. And I'm doing this all purposely because I was very fortunate to be sent this beautiful gift box. Okay. But also on the card it says. And also I sent you another one to raise some money with.

[C]

That is nice.

[B]

Look guys, I'm a hunter, right? And when I go hunting, I like to figure out how to get my trophies back home as expeditiously as possible. Well, you don't have to look much further than Safari specialty importers. We know that trophy importation can be quite a headache. That's why Safari specialty importer strives to make it as easy as and hassle free as possible. They have access to a bonded warehouse. You won't be charged storage fees and you get a dedicated team that's readily available and will update you at every step in the process. They'll even go one step further. Safari specialty importers is working with us and they are going to donate $100 from every shipment that they work with to conservation projects that include anti poaching, community development and wildlife conservation. At the end of the day, choose to spend your money with a team that's dedicated to you and is dedicated to helping show how hunting is a great conservation model. Hassle free logistics, fuel and conservation go with safari specialty importers. Hunting and shooting suppressed have become the norm in over 42 states where suppressors are legal. The growing popularity of suppressors has even led to legislative changes. You might have heard some things around the big beautiful bill, Right? Including the reduction of the NFA mandated tax stamp. Before you used to pay 200 bucks. And now starting January 1st of 2026, the tax stamp is going to zero. However, why wait until January 1st our partners, silence Essential, great friends of ours, they're going to pay your tax stamp right now. So if you buy a banished suppressor or other popular brands that essentially are qualifying purchases, Silence Essential is going to cover the cost of the tax stand. They're going to save you 200 bucks right now, so make sure you don't miss out. Shooting suppressed. If you're in the market for a new suppressor, whether it's your first or your next one, visit silenceessential.com or call them 866-811-6536. Silence Essential is going to cover your tax stamp right now. They're going to simplify the submission process and deliver your suppressor right to your door. Don't wait. Get your suppressor right now and start shooting. Suppress. This season, Bushnell is eager to help you get set up for conservation success. That's right. They want to help you. The conservation and research community is dominated by good people doing good things and investing significant time and effort for the benefit of habitat and the species. So what do you need to do? Pretty simple. Send us your conservation story and or your conservation wish. Could be managing whitetails, could be understanding your environment or species or something else related to conservation. What would you be able to do if you had a great trail camera setup? We will select the best story every other month and send you a camera bundle. Cell camera, normal, SD camera, SD cards, as well as optics, everything you need to get set up for success. I can't wait to see what you submit. You can email us, DM us, message us, whatever you want. We are not hard to find. Good luck. So I have a full box of what this all is to give away to someone and we will figure it out on what we're doing to give this away. So let me close this door because I have a little wiener dog. Barking, barking, barking, barking, barking.

[C]

I'm really glad you finished that sentence.

[B]

She can keep barking, you deny. What are you laughing because I said wiener?

[C]

I'm really glad you finished the sentence out.

[B]

Yeah, a little weena dog, people. Come on, Ashley, get your head out the gutter. Come on.

[C]

I'm sorry.

[B]

Creepy school. You're telling the whole world.

[C]

Anymore. We changed the. We changed the time of our podcast and it's not even helping.

[B]

Okay, so that's what I'm wearing. The hat I'm wearing. You're wearing a Juniper Mountain Coffee hat. Stop laughing.

[C]

I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

[B]

So Juniper Mountain Coffee has partnered with us, collab with us on a new coffee called Tusca. It is a single origin, Panamanian dark roast bean. And it is exceptional. I say that in. In good faith. Of all the coffee I've ever drunk, dog and gun. Black Death is exceptional coffee. Dark roast. It's one of our collab. This is another dark roast. It's exceptional. 2. And I have it every single day. I was in South Africa for the last 10 days, and I had it this week. Say what? You had it?

[C]

I had it. I had it Saturday morning. I had been in Montana all week. I got home to this beautiful bag. Do you have a bag that you can show people?

[B]

I can go get one.

[C]

I would get them. Well, I could go get one too.

[B]

You go get one or I get one?

[C]

Do you want me to go get one? All right, you talk for a minute about how good this coffee is, and.

[B]

I'll go get the coffee. So Ashley's gonna go get the coffee. Doing this live. And so the coffee is a single roast, single dark roast, single source bean from Pan Panama. And I used it. And you can get it in ground and get it in single coffee bean. I used the ground in a French press, and I put four scoops of it into a French press. We made up the French press and the French press every morning was amazing. And there you see coffee without compromise is the back of the. Of the. It's got this beautiful yellow elephant. Sorry, Gold elephant. Ashley's holding it up right now again. You need to watch it on YouTube to be able to see. Smells amazing. Right?

[C]

Right. But you don't have to watch on YouTube because I just realized that everyone saw me get up and flash my exercise leggings socks to the camera. Business on the Top.

[B]

Party on the Bottom podcast is going really, really well today.

[C]

This is what happens when Robbie's been out of town for a few weeks, and we get back to one of these and haven't talked in a while. But.

[B]

So the coolest thing about that coffee is that. And I don't know if you know this or not, but the. The Tusker. It's a single Tusker. Right. It's a single elephant that's been drawn on the front. That's a Katie Hargreaves original she does specifically for our coffee.

[C]

And I love her stuff. She's so talented.

[B]

We need to actually send her some coffee.

[C]

Some stuff about Origins on the back.

[B]

Yep. And look, it even says. It says Blood Origins, but it's also the Origins Foundation. Blood Origins.

[C]

Yeah. It's very cool. Thank you. Juniper Mountain Coffee. I love your coffee. And I love your hat. We appreciate you.

[B]

Yeah, thank you so much for that. And then the last thing I'll say, and I'm not wearing it because it's. I wore it this weekend, dove hunting. Is that this podcast is dropping on Wednesday, on Thursday, tomorrow, for those of you listening to this, tomorrow we have a pre release sale of our first exclusive collab with a company. And tomorrow it's Berlabeau. And we have a pearl snap short sleeve polo shirt in deer camo. It has an orange. A burned orange helix above the left hand pocket. It's exceptional. It's a beautiful shirt. We've got a very, very limited run.

[C]

On it, so it's so good. I have to say, it is a great looking shirt. And that's not just because I love orange.

[B]

So you better buy some. You better get a pre release order in for both.

[C]

Both the shirts dropping. What? You're not doing them all at once?

[B]

No. Good one. You are just tearing this podcast apart. You're telling people about things we're not yet telling people about.

[C]

Okay, well, if you like this one, there's more to come.

[B]

There's more to come. There's more to come. As we get full weather like. You have to buy yours. I'm buying mine.

[C]

I. I helped design it. I think I should get a little sample.

[B]

You should buy one. Buy one for Brad.

[C]

I will buy mine. I will buy mine.

[B]

Buy one for Brad.

[C]

I should. I should. I don't know that. Well, he'll. He'll definitely wear this first one. Yeah, but I don't want to match my husband.

[B]

Okay, then just buy one yourself. I mean, are you gonna buy one.

[C]

For Lisa and then wear it?

[B]

Buy one for Austin. Are you crazy? Lisa wearing camo. She might want. She may buy. I may buy her the black one. The black camel maybe like, enough.

[C]

Oh, see, you just let that out of the book. You just let it out of the bag. Not me.

[B]

Black camera coming.

[C]

There's one coming. Perfect for Halloween season.

[B]

Correct. Correct. Correct. Correct.

[C]

She looked cute. She would look cute. Or not.

[B]

Yeah, so I'll get that.

[C]

So I'm gonna buy one before they sell out. Because I do think they're gonna sell like that.

[B]

They will. If. If all indications come true, we will probably announce the sale of the shirts at the same time as we announced all the shirts being sold out.

[C]

So we'll have to do more.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

But hopefully there are more clothing collabs coming soon. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, I think so. So exciting things happening in our world. Just got good conservation partners Helping us constantly. So super happy.

[C]

Yeah. And you and I have both been doing some cool stuff this past couple of weeks. You have been in South Africa.

[B]

I have been in South Africa.

[C]

Looked like a really cool, fun trip. And I'm glad that you actually got to have. For everyone listening, you probably know Robbie never, ever, ever has fun downtime for himself. And this was, I think, a little bit of work and some fun.

[B]

So I'm glad, as you, as you. I think one of the emails you sent back saying, if this is Robbie unplugged, we're in trouble.

[C]

Because he was still emailing the whole thing.

[B]

Well, here's the thing, and I'll take.

[C]

But he was making fun of us.

[B]

So I was. I did unplug. And my. I was very fortunate enough to take my. The guy who introduced me to hunting here in America, which is pretty cool, Full circle. Introduced me to hunting to South Africa to hunt out of the country for the very first time for him. He'd never been to Africa. He'd never been to South Africa. And his mind was blown. We were hunting a probably 55,000 to 60,000 low fence sheep farm in the Northern Cape. And you know, the first day he saw. Probably on the way in. Oh, I'll say this, for the entire trip, when you count up all, like the color variants of all the animals, okay, he saw 32 different wildlife mammal species.

[C]

32 the first day.

[B]

No, no, 32 total.

[C]

Oh, okay.

[B]

He saw 14 the first day. He saw 14. And one of those animals was an art wolf, which is. It's not a striped hyena, it's an art wolf in South Africa. It's a very small little hyena animal. Eats ants and little. It's almost like an omnivore. I have never seen an aardwolf in the wild.

[C]

I've never even heard of an art wolf.

[B]

Look it up. Google it.

[C]

I'm about to.

[B]

A, A, R, D, W, O, L.

[C]

F. So kind of like an aardvark, only it's an aardvolf.

[B]

Yeah. So an aardvark is an ant pig. This is an ant wolf.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

It burst out of a termite mound as we were celebrating his first impartial first springbok that he had killed just standing right there. And I'd be like, I've never seen one. And you just saw it.

[C]

That's so cool.

[B]

Yeah, we. We hunted with a little outfit called Trophy Destinations. There's two young guys, Oliver and Carl. Carl's a sheep farmer, sixth generation sheep farmer. And they just both love to hunt. They're young guys. They built this beautiful lodge on the side of the little canyon. And, yeah, the food was exceptional. The company was exceptional. The hunting was exceptional. The hunting was so good that Landon, two of his springboks. A copper springbok, which is a color variant, and a common springbok, which is your normal springbok. His common springbok was the 20th largest common springbok ever taken with a rifle, according to the record books. Really incredibly wide springbok. I'll show you a picture, because you. Even somebody who's never seen a springbok will go, oh, man, that's a big springbok. This is a picture of how wide he is.

[C]

Oh, yeah, very wide.

[B]

And his bases are huge. So you can see all my fingers, like, wrapping around the horn right there.

[C]

Mm.

[B]

It's just a thick. It's the bases of the horns was seven and a half inches around. Anyway, his copper springbok was the eighth largest on record taken by a rifle.

[C]

That's crazy.

[B]

Crazy in a low French.

[C]

It's also crazy that you knew that that quickly. That's pretty cool.

[B]

No, we just Google. You just look it up. It's online. You just look up the records.

[C]

Oh, okay.

[B]

You just look up. You do your measurements right there in the field and look up the numbers and see where you rank. So. And look, the first hunt that we did with him was an easy, typical South African hunt. You know, you saw the animals. We saw the animals from, like, three k's away. We drove around. We parked in the position below the hill. We walked up the hill maybe 200 yards, 300 yards, positioned ourselves perfectly. The animals walked right past us, selected the one we wanted to kill and killed it. Every hunt after that was four or five miles of walking up mountains, down mountains, repositioning for the wind. It was exceptional. Every hunt was amazing. Every hunt.

[C]

That's awesome. Very nice. So, and I was out in Montana. I was out with a bunch of fish chiefs from different state wildlife agencies and Fish and Wildlife Service reps, regional reps. And we were talking about all things interjurisdictional, fisheries issues. And we went hiking on some very remote US Forest Service lands, which, coincidentally, are some of the lands that would be eligible for the rescission of the roadless rule.

[B]

Isn't that happening soon? Like September 15th or September 20th?

[C]

Nine days. So public comment period ends September 19th.

[B]

19Th.

[C]

And we posted about this, but we haven't really talked about it on any of our platforms that much, but this Rule has been in effect since 2001 and so a long time. It doesn't affect all Forest Service lands. It doesn't affect all lands, but it affects about 58 million acres of national Forest Service. And basically what it does is it says, look, we've, we already have roads out there on a bunch of National Forest Service lands. And in these specific areas, which are called inventoried roadless areas, you can't build more roads and you cannot undertake commercial timber harvest projects. So no commercial logging projects or operations. Just does two things. That's what, that's all it does is restricts new roads from being built and restricts commercial timber and harvest logging.

[B]

Is there any, is there any timber harvest? Because one of the things that we talked about, we got a little bit of pushback on the roadless rule. Is there no way, is there any use of the forests from a non commercial perspective?

[C]

They have leases for farmers and grazing leases. Right, grazing leases. You can hunt on these places, you can fish. They're obviously non consumptive uses. But these lands obviously exist for, I mean, this is a conservation purpose for the American public to have these wild areas to protect these, these forest lands and to protect the species that are on them. There's a lot of endangered species, obviously to protect vital watersheds. I mean, a lot of the areas that they've protected as inventoried roadless areas have watersheds and rivers and streams that they don't want. The pollution from the construction of new roads and timber operations polluting. There's any number of reasons why we protect, and we could talk about it all day long, but you know, why do we do what we do in protecting public lands and public forests and these areas? So I think it's a good rule. And I looked into it quite extensively. I had actually never heard of this rule. I didn't know that it existed. You don't hear about it very often. And so when we saw it kind of cropping up and before we put anything out about it, I looked into it pretty extensively and every conservation group that you and I know and trust is out there defending it.

[B]

And, and when put in place, it was, there was, you know, 600 meetings.

[C]

1.2 million comments, public outreach before they put it into place, an unprecedented number of public meetings. They went through the entire EAS process and there was historic and record breaking public comment in favor of it. So they didn't undertake it lightly. Some people in different areas, and I know that we had some negative or a negative comment or reaction from someone in Colorado that felt like they lived through it and that it happened fast. And I know that, you know, maybe some people have a different perspective that. That had some interest in it not going into place at the time. But I think that for. For the better good of American conservation, it is a good rule. I think it is. Everybody doesn't agree with us on everything. That's, you know, and it's. That's gonna be the case for probably ever. With the Origins foundation, we wade into issues. We have to make decisions on what we engage in. A lot of the issues we engage in are controversial, and they're going to be. And you and I have talked a lot about the fact that a lot of things in America, and unfortunately, conservation, wildlife, environmental issues, hunting, fishing, there's a lot of money involved in all of it, all of it on both sides. And so where there's money involved and especially where things like development come into play, and when you talk about logging and those kind of commercial operations, there's a lot of money involved there. So I think those are going to be especially controversial, and I think that's what we're dealing with here. But I think the majority of Americans agree with us that these areas need to remain protected.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. You know, it's. You're right, we get into controversial topics, and we're not going to shy away from controversial topics because I think that's what makes us what we are and who we are. And, you know, we try and be measured about everything we do and explain why we believe, why we believe. And sometimes, you know, within. Within us, within the organization itself, we are, you know, divided in terms of what we think and how we think and what we say and how we say it. And. And that's okay because, you know, maybe one of us is right in circumstances. Other one. All right. In another circumstance. And there's just. Who knows.

[C]

And there are people out there with differing opinions on all sorts of things within the hunting and fishing community. And so we want to be here and reflect the views of everyone. You know, our mission is to get the story out, but we do support public lands and we'll continue to support them.

[B]

Yeah, a hundred percent.

[C]

That's that. So if you want to engage in public comment, we do have a link. You can go to the post up on Instagram and just comment, link, and we'll send it to you. And then you've got nine days left.

[B]

Are we. Are you willing to say on what we're working on with the fisheries people?

[C]

Oh, yes.

[B]

Well, I don't Know, because, like, I. I, you know, preempt, like, things that I'm allowed to say and not allowed to say, you know, unlike you, who just grab things out.

[C]

Yeah, no, we've got a few things that there's a. So now that we're allowed to talk about fish issues, which excites me, and I think a lot of our listeners and supporters out there, a lot of people hunt and fish, so that's fantastic. And we're engaging more and more in fisheries issues. We are delving into the fight against carp. The fight against. We used to say Asian carp. We don't call them that anymore. We call them invasive carp, but you still hear both terms tossed around. They have infiltrated, I think, as most people who fish know, infiltrated the waters of much of the Mississippi river basin.

[B]

Especially when you get ready to do this carp thing. We have to use Octavia's video of a carp interacting.

[C]

We'll get permission. We have to get permission from her to use it, but yes, yes. When we took Octavia alligator hunting, we had carp flying. If you've ever been out on a waterway where there are carp, you know that they are dangerous and they can wreak havoc.

[B]

What is it about carp that makes them do that?

[C]

What if they're stimulated by the motion? The motion stimulates them. Yeah. And so. But they're the only species that I.

[B]

Know that does that.

[C]

I think they're not the only one, but they're the predominant one, and they're definitely the largest one. I mean, carp get huge, and that's the biggest problem is they get so big that they can actually physically injure you. I mean, we've known people have concussions, lacerations. They'll knock you out of a boat. And so once they. Once they infiltrate a waterway and especially start reproducing, they eat everything. That's the biggest problem. They eat everything in a body of.

[B]

Water, including all of our sport. Are they omnivores?

[C]

Okay, don't.

[B]

You're a car specialist. You should know this.

[C]

They don't eat plants. They eat all of that.

[B]

Oh, they're not. They don't. They don't eat, like.

[C]

I mean, if they're, like, dying of starvation, but they're going to eat all of the other fish in the body.

[B]

Okay. They're fish eaters. They're not. They're not herbivores.

[C]

Yeah, no. They're eating the crappie. They're eating the bass. They're eating the plankton. They're eating everything, like, literally every other bait fish. Every Other sport fish, they're taking the whole thing over. So they were introduced in the seventies by the US Fish and Wildlife Service as a way they thought to keep catfish ponds clean. And instead they just ended up eating everything in them. And when it would flood down in Arkansas, then they would get into other adjacent bodies of water, and they got into the rivers and. And now they're literally all over the Mississippi River Basin. They've worked their way all the way up. They're in Illinois, and they are not yet in the Great Lakes. But millions and millions and millions of dollars are spent. I mean, like hundreds of millions of dollars are spent trying to keep them out of the Great Lakes. The problem is they're everywhere down in the southern United States. Mississippi river basin is 28 states. And so we are working on a documentary to show the extent of the problem and what the different states are doing to combat it. Primarily, commercial fishing is one of the main ways. And. And then we are trying to pass the Mississippi River Basin Fishery Commission, which is similar to the Great Lakes Fishery Commission. It's been introduced in both the Senate and the House. And it would just provide that congressionally recognized commission to provide management for all of those interjurisdictional fisheries. So not just to combat carp and other aquatic invasive species, but to help with these native fish species, you know, paddlefish, sturgeon, catfish. Help our sport fish so that we can recover all of these sport fish that we've been losing across the basin. So it's pretty cool. Pretty cool. Fisheries issues going on.

[B]

That's cool. No, I'm excited about that cop documentary. And it's funny. I got a text today from a friend of ours, Greg Adams, out of Florida. He's a big alligator guy down there. And he said, I've got an insane opportunity. I'm not going to tell people about the opportunity, but it's tied to fishing, really.

[C]

Okay, well, I think we get to say yes to those kind of things now, right?

[B]

No sustainable use of fisheries. Yeah, for sure.

[C]

Good.

[B]

Definitely.

[C]

That's fun. So we had a lot of seasons open up this past weekend. A lot of happy people.

[B]

Oh. So here's the thing that I didn't understand and didn't know, and maybe it's true, but you can help me here. I thought that doves being a federally managed species because they migrated. It was a general season. Everyone opens the same September 1st.

[C]

Well, everyone but Louisiana.

[B]

That's what I heard. Louisiana only opens on the first Saturday in September because it's a social, it's cultural event. Not like, oh, this. It's open and everyone hunts it. No, no, no, no. Everyone. Wait.

[C]

Tradition. It's a tradition. Yeah.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

And don't ask me why. I don't know. They just. Apparently they've tried to move it, they've tried to change it, but there was just a huge outcry. No, no, no. Then it may be on a weekday. People may be working. They just. They. They do it that way and they like it that way, and that's how it is.

[B]

Interesting. Very, very interesting. I was like, wow, why didn't you. This is like the fourth day you guys have hunted. He was like, no, it's the first day. I said, it's been open for five days. He's like, nope, open Saturday. So dub, open. What else? Opened.

[C]

I mean, Bear in Vermont opened September 1st. We have.

[B]

And I hear bears are going crazy in Vermont.

[C]

Apparently, whatever they are doing in Vermont to manage their bear populations, they are doing it right. So they, of course, you know, keep track with their bear population density numbers. And they were. Their goal was to have the population at about 3,500 to 5,000, and apparently they are somewhere between 6,800 and 8,000 bears.

[B]

Holy smokes.

[C]

Despite increased hunting and car auto mortalities, so.

[B]

Well, that. That you would make sense, right? Auto mortality should go up when your density increases or your population size increases.

[C]

Yeah, right. But. But I mean, they've increased their tags, they've increased the number of hunters, or killing more and more bears, and yet still they're just booming. It's like a bear factory in Vermont.

[B]

Can you bait bears in Vermont? Well, can you use dogs in Vermont?

[C]

And by the way, carp are omnivore. They are omnivore.

[B]

Omnivorous.

[C]

They just literally eat everything. When I say they eat everything, they eat everything.

[B]

Yeah, that's what I thought. I always thought that they would eat the, like, the duckweed on the top of the ponds. They would eat the hydrilla that is, you know, growing from the bottom the submerged vegetation.

[C]

I mean, they'll eat seeds, insects, crustaceans. I mean, they literally eat. Will eat it all. I feel like we've talked about whether you can bait in Vermont.

[B]

It's awesome.

[C]

By now, I mean, my gosh, have we had a podcast that we've not talked about baiting bears? I don't think so. I don't think so. No, you cannot. Bay bears in Vermont.

[B]

Maybe they should stop dating to attract.

[C]

I don't. I mean, obvious. Oh, you mean so that the numbers will come down?

[B]

Yeah, so that they get better chances of hunting a bear, killing a bear.

[C]

It doesn't sound like they've had any problems with killing the bears. I mean, they're. They've killed more than ever. They've hunted, harvested, let's say harvested more than ever.

[B]

Can you use hounds to hunt bears their.

[C]

Their 2024? Bear hunting?

[B]

Yes, you can.

[C]

Hounds in the state history.

[B]

So you can use dogs to chase bears in Vermont. Okay, hounds. Yeah. Okay, cool.

[C]

State history this past.

[B]

Yeah, for some reason.

[C]

Um, yeah, you know, it's so weather. Conditional. It seems like we've had different species open up all over. Connecticut has had some seasons open, and they, for the first time in history, have Sunday hunting. But lots of articles out reminding people that migratory waterfowl was specifically excluded from the Sunday hunting. So sorry, guys, no ducks and no geese.

[B]

That is ridiculous.

[C]

And I don't know why they did that.

[B]

I don't know why that's ridiculous.

[C]

So you can kill a deer on Sunday. You cannot kill a duck.

[B]

It must be the whole, like banging away with a shotgun on a Sunday morning or something like that, because it.

[C]

Has to be so much quieter. I don't know. Well, I mean, I know it's less.

[B]

Shots, but I just think people maybe are walking around lakes and stuff like that. I don't know.

[C]

They did give them back the three extra days in October that they took away. So you get. You get those three extra days back for waterfowl that you apparently lost. So it was like, well, we're not gonna let you do this. But here. Here's three extra days. Connecticut deer numbers down, down all around. Fewer hunters, lower deer population. They're not quite sure why they're looking into that. But Long Island. Long island apparently is the place to be a deer because they are overrun, overrun with the deer population. And they are begging people to get their hunting license, to apply for tag, and to help kill the deer in Long Island. And I shouldn't laugh about this, because it just makes me giggle when they. They quote people in this story. But they are so state officials, or the way the story is written is so funny to me. But state officials are asking. This is how the. The first sense of the story. State officials are asking Long island hunters to help slaughter deer and thin out the soaring population. I mean, maybe if you're addressing New York hunters, I would just maybe not call it help slaughter deer. Slaughter deer.

[B]

Well, it's classic journalism, right? Classic baiting, clickbaiting.

[C]

It is very. Yeah, it's very. Because the deer population is leaving a Trail. Trail of wrecked cars and ruined crocs while spreading tick borne diseases. So the department of environmental Conservation, they're trying to get locals out to hunt these deers because they're apparently everywhere. They have no known predators on Long island and ample and abundant habitat and things to eat and forage on there.

[B]

And so none of the anti hunters have come out and said, no, well, yeah, do not slaughter the deer.

[C]

Yes, they have. They're very upset. And they say, look, we don't, we do not want people to go slaughter our deer. We don't want you to use hunting as a means of deer population control. We think there are better ways to do it. And the two that they named are to replace the forage and food with planting vegetation that deer don't like and won't eat. So they want things to be planted throughout Long Island.

[B]

Everybody in Long Island's not allowed to plant a pansy or a rose anymore because deer love those things.

[C]

Yeah. No more hydrangeas, guys. Oh, sorry.

[B]

No more grass. You'll have to change from grass to.

[C]

No more fruit trees. No more fruit trees. Act like you're in the desert.

[B]

That's such a ridiculous answer. Like, why would that. That's absolutely asinine.

[C]

Well, we haven't gotten to the second one.

[B]

More asinine than replacing all the good vegetation with bad vegetation.

[C]

I mean, fertility control. Fertility control. Sterilize the deer population and plant things that they don't want to eat. So I remember we looked into this. We looked into this, right? Yeah.

[B]

So I remember a contraception program, but it was for bucks, but. So I can't find it right now. But there was a contraception program putting that was looking to castrate. Oh, here we go. I found it. Here we go. Here we go. Costing nearly $2.5 million. It wasn't long Island. It was Staten Island. New York City extends Staten Island.

[C]

Dear vasectomy program, you're way off on your budget.

[B]

No, no, no, no. No vasectomy program for five years.

[C]

Yeah, it costs $6.6 million. Yeah, that's like $6 million.

[B]

And it didn't work because initially it didn't work. It might have worked now, but initially it didn't work because deer were swimming in to deer to Staten island. And those deer that were swimming were bucks that weren't. Didn't have vasectomies. So they kept having babies and they're like, where the hell are the babies coming from?

[C]

Right.

[B]

And it was all immigration of bucks swimming across. Yeah.

[C]

Because they do that. Well, so they have tried a sterilization program on Long island before as well. In East Hampton in 2015, they conducted an experimental deer sterilization program where with does where they were darted and transported to veterinarians for ovarictomies surgical sterilization. It cost $1,000 per deer. So they did it with 114 deer. So we know it was at least $114,000 they spent to sterilize these deer. And that doesn't sound like very many deer to me. Like, as well for this island. I mean, if there's that many deer, that doesn't sound like that'd make a dent in it. But then apparently deer kept dying. They. Some went into septic shock, others got abdominal infections, which is.

[B]

Exactly. It's a perfect solution. Right. This is what we want to do from an animal rights perspective.

[C]

No, the animal rights group.

[B]

Oh my God.

[C]

Sued them, Sued the state for doing this. Unsafe conditions unless unlicensed veterinarians and multiple deer deaths.

[B]

Now look, if there were unlicensed veterinarians, unlicensed veterinarians, then you should have been sued in doing it.

[C]

I mean, that. But I mean, I wonder if that's really even true.

[B]

I don't think that's true.

[C]

But I mean, what, how so what is like, what do they want? I mean, if they're gonna like, okay, they saved. Sterilize them, which is going to cost gabillion dollars to sterilize. The deer population apparently has failed and doesn't work in the past. And then they're going to sue them when they do do it. And obviously you cannot replace all of the vegetation on Long island or Staten Island. I mean, do they just want the deer to just live forever? Multiply? I mean, I guess run the people off the island? I mean, there's. What is that?

[B]

They want the deer to live forever. They don't ever die, they don't ever multiply, they don't ever reproduce. And at the end of the day, this is what it comes down to. And we've been scenario after scenario after scenario after scenario. They just don't like the idea of somebody killing a deer. That's it. They actually don't care about the deer and its well being and its population health. They don't care about it. They just don't want somebody killing it.

[C]

Yeah, Good luck with that. Management plan.

[B]

Yep. Lethal control. Lethal.

[C]

A kid in the east coast and I should know exactly where he was, but he was.

[B]

I thought you said New Hampshire, I think.

[C]

Well, I, I don't know exactly where he was because I lost my notes. But this kid roped in, hooked and brought in what looks to be a record breaking halibut. At 177 pounds, the halibut was 50 pounds more than this 13 year old weighed. Which is okay. I mean, and they said he did it all by himself.

[B]

I was blown away that there was actually halibut in the Atlantic Ocean. Never heard of anybody catching a halibut on the east coast. But there is such a thing as an Atlantic halibut. Inhabits the temperate and arctic waters of the northern Atlantic from Labrador and Greenland down to Virginia.

[C]

It is New Hampshire.

[B]

While there were once a bunch of populations to the west and Atlantic western Atlanta have declined significantly due to intense fishing. Crazy.

[C]

I know. Jackson Dinnio is his name. New Hampshire, 177 pounds. He fought this thing for over an hour. So congratulations to this kid because that's pretty cool.

[B]

Unbelievable.

[C]

We have had some monsters.

[B]

Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.

[C]

Two seconds.

[B]

Or to this Noah's website, maybe it's not the same thing. Atlantic halibut. Atlantic halibut can reach up to 15ft in length. Here's what they say. The largest Atlantic halibut recorded was taking off. Taken off Cape Ann, Massachusetts and weighed 615 pounds.

[C]

What?

[B]

Yeah. Eviscerated with the head still attached. It likely weighed 700 pounds when it was alive.

[C]

What year was that? Like 1850?

[B]

It doesn't say. It doesn't say.

[C]

I bet that wasn't recent. So that's probably. That was probably like a deadliest catch.

[B]

But commercial landings of Atlanta halibut totaled £78,000.

[C]

Well, I bet it still.

[B]

Yeah, you did. Half a million bucks.

[C]

I love some halibut. I'd love to eat halibut.

[B]

Have you fished for halibut before?

[C]

No, I just eat it. I would love to fish for halibut. I would like to. And I used to watch that show.

[B]

Which show was it?

[C]

Deadly as catch. Weren't they fishing for halibut part of the time? I think they were.

[B]

No fish for crabs. Deadliest catch.

[C]

I don't think it was just crabs.

[B]

Maybe we send it to you.

[C]

Maybe it was. I mean I remember some king crabs coming in on those boats. But didn't they fish up for other stuff too? I don't know. We've had some humongous gators coming in down here. Including one that was, what'd I say, 14ft 4 inches.

[B]

14, 4.

[C]

I think 14. 14 and a. 14 and a quarter. Because I think our record is like 14ft and 3 inches. So it's just shy. The record was pulled in. So that season, gator season's open and I mean the pictures are everywhere and making me real jealous that haven't gone to hunting.

[B]

Have you hunted an alligator before in Mississippi?

[C]

Not in Mississippi. Not in Mississippi. I would like.

[B]

Where have you hunted one?

[C]

Only an alligator gar. I got an alligator gar. But yeah, yeah, that was the beginning.

[B]

Of your blood origins journey.

[C]

It was, it was. And we'll get that one out one day. What other news? Pennsylvania's got a bill moving through to allow them to use semiautomatic weapons for big game species, but would still have to have a plug to limit it to three. Three shots.

[B]

Crazy.

[C]

Because they don't think I'm surprised that's not in there. I know they say they're one of only two states that doesn't allow it, but I find that hard to believe. I mean I don't. Do we know if that's true?

[B]

I don't know.

[C]

I don't feel like we can do that down in Mississippi, but I need to double check. I. When I read that I thought, really.

[B]

I think it's, you know, you know, semi automatic guns. I know for like, well, well the.

[C]

Article said ARS and aks. And so that's where I'm confused whether they're differentiating between like that type of weapon or whether it's just how many shots you can take. And I think that that is maybe.

[B]

I wonder if it's semi auto, is the mechanism.

[C]

Yeah, I think that that's what we're talking about. Because if it's just semi auto, then that's probably. Yes, that is probably true. They say they're the only ones, Delaware and Pennsylvania who can't.

[B]

Interesting. Very interesting. Lots of good news. Thank you. Thank you for catching us up on the news.

[C]

Anything else wild and crazy going on?

[B]

No. Oh, everything.

[C]

Have you.

[B]

Everything.

[C]

Did you watch Honeywise?

[B]

Yes, I watched all of it. Smut. Absolute smut.

[C]

Absolute smut.

[B]

Yeah, but yeah, I sat. I sat through every single episode of it and it's gone viral.

[C]

It's crazy and it didn't get any better. We need another hunting show to watch. If anybody's out there and got a good hunting show, send it to us.

[B]

Send it to us. If you have any information, any news, anything you want us to discuss and debate, text us on our number. You've got that handy, right, Ashley?

[C]

I do, of course, as always.

[B]

No, you don't. Do not.

[C]

Hold on. Yes, I do.

[B]

60179006070607 601-790-607 I'm going to put it.

[C]

On a sticky note and put it.

[B]

You'Ve had a couple of good texts. Let's finish with the text. And you've had a couple of good ones that have come through, right?

[C]

Yes, we have.

[B]

I saw a bunch of screenshots of them coming through from you.

[C]

Let's see. Do you want to this guy said he just finished my third podcast. Introduced to you via the Shocky. You appeared and was interested in your work. I have been in the fields hunting since the 60s. Born in Pennsylvania, my father started me with woodchucks and doves and after turning 12 hunting along with him. Every animal is a trophy, he would tell me. And I believe that 60 plus years later. Your point on the podcast I listened to today applies to the world of today, not 1965. I recently returned from my first and probably only African hunt. Six coal animals and a bush buck. All trophies to me. None came back. It's too much expense, but the memories and experience will be with me forever. Said FYI. I hunted with Juliet Johnstone of Rosslyn Safaris. Heard you mention that today. Awesome place with amazing people. Thanks for what you do. Thank you.

[B]

Shout out to Roslyn Safaris. Thank you for giving him such a great, great experience.

[C]

And then someone said good roundup with Lake Pickle. Thank you. I agree with both of your thoughts about deer baiting. We used to bait when I was a kid and it was legal where we hunted in Wiscons and it seemed to feed more raccoons and squirrels than deer and they generally only hit our bait sites at night anyways. Also, I'm excited for some Origins foundation fishing work. A good story to cover would be Wisconsin's lake sturgeon spearing season on Lake Winnebago Fishing. It supported an amazing recovery or spear fishing. Spear fishing.

[B]

Oh man.

[C]

Sturgeon spearing season. Yeah, that'd be awesome.

[B]

That would be amazing.

[C]

An amazing recovery of our lake sturgeon. The best population in the world and it's helped to reintroduce sturgeon in other areas. We maybe should not tell these good ideas out loud. Nah, this is a great idea.

[B]

It's a great idea.

[C]

Nobody else go film this. It's a whole culture around it and it's turned everyone who participates into a conservationist for Lake Sturgeon. Lake sturgeon Sturgeon are some of the coolest, coolest, coolest fish out there. Yep, every fish biologist I know calls themselves a sturgeon nerd because they are so very cool and so I think that's a fantastic idea.

[B]

One of my best memories with my dad is fishing for sturgeon in the Columbia river between two locks and we hooked into probably six to ten fish and one of the fish were like five and a half feet long. It was just unbelievable.

[C]

Yeah, that's Dave from Wisconsin who is a friend of ours and has always some good ideas for us.

[B]

Email us Dave, we want to learn more about your sturgeon spear phishing.

[C]

Yeah you can Ashley A S H L e [e-mail] or robbie at the origins foundation what origins foundation.org oh.org.org sorry because we are a nonprofit. Yeah I know we are a nonprofit.org Ashley or [e-mail] Yep.

[B]

Thanks Ashley.

[C]

Thanks for listening.

[B]

Ciao ciao. Bye Chai Chai well, that's it for today. I appreciate you listening as always. Leave a review, share it with your friends, and most importantly, do what's right to convey the truth around hunting Want.

[D]

To plan your next fishing trip without the hassle? FishingBooker.com is the best way to find and book a fishing charter anywhere in the world. Whether you're chasing trophy fish or just looking for a family day on the water, fishingbooker makes it simple, fast and secure. With thousands of experienced guides, verified reviews and 247 customer support, FishingBooker takes the guesswork out of planning. Visit fishingbooker.com and book your trip today. FishingBooker Fishing trips made Easy hey guys.

[E]

This is Melissa Bachman. Are you ready to stop spooking deer before it's even time to hunt them? Then you need the new Flex S Dark cellular trail camera from spypoint. With a no glow flash option, long lasting solar power, and a ton of settings that can be changed anytime through the SpyPoint app. There are no more excuses for letting your deer get wise before the season even starts. So check it out for yourself and see why. The spypoint Flex S Dark is the unstoppable and undetectable scouting tool you need for your next hunt.