The Origins Foundation Podcast: Roundup 161

Weekly Roundup with Ashlee Smith and CSF's Fred Bird
Date: October 8, 2025
Hosts: Ashlee Smith (The Origins Foundation), Fred Bird (Congressional Sportsmen’s Foundation/Congressional Sportsman’s Podcast)
Note: Robbie Kroger, usual host, was traveling in Australia during this episode.

Episode Overview

This week’s episode is a dynamic roundup featuring Ashlee Smith and guest co-host Fred Bird from the Congressional Sportsmen’s Foundation. The pair cover a broad spectrum of pressing topics for the conservation and hunting community in the US, ranging from fall turkey seasons and the Maine turkey population explosion, to the ongoing federal government shutdown's ripple effects on conservation, to how hunters are voluntarily stepping up in Ohio amid a deer EHD crisis. They wrap with legislative watch notes and the critical role of experience-based management in today's wildlife agencies.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Catching Up: Life Updates, Loss, and New Beginnings

[02:10 – 05:00]

• Ashlee introduces Fred and shares a personal story about losing her beloved English bulldog, Winston, due to an anaphylactic reaction after swallowing a bee.
• Ashlee welcomes a new English bulldog puppy to her home and warns listeners about the risks of bee-chasing for dogs—insight from her vet: "The vet says he sees it all the time. Happen to dogs all the time."
• Light banter about the importance of pets and transitioning the show due to usual host Robbie’s travels.

2. Fall Hunting in New England: A Turkey Boom

[06:09 – 15:40]

• Fred shares updates from New Hampshire and Maine. Warm weather is delaying deer hunts; he's looking forward to colder mornings for whitetail and excited for Maine's lenient fall turkey regulations.
  • "Maine is generous, maybe to a fault with how many turkeys you're allowed to take in the fall. It's a five bird season. Either sex, any age class.” (Fred Bird, 06:46)
• Discussion on the politics and controversy surrounding such liberal bag limits and the rationale from the agricultural sector about turkeys as “problem animals,” though Fred pushes back.
  • “It was basically a murder mission, treating them as, as vermin, which they're not... The wild turkey ... is the number one success story [in] conservation, reintroduction.” (Fred Bird, 11:36)
• The value of leaving mature hens to preserve future turkey generations, and Fred’s culinary motivations for targeting smaller birds.
• Contrast with Mississippi, where the fall turkey season was eliminated due to population concerns, leading to debate among hunters.
  • “Fall turkey hunting is kind of controversial ... people talk about the lack of maybe the same kind of fair chase and being able to go after hens ... that's when the poults are learning survival skills.” (Ashley, 15:06)
• The importance of historic perspective: fall hunts were the original norm in North America.

3. Federal Government Shutdown: Causes, Effects, and Conservation Impact

[16:06 – 28:04]

• Ashlee provides a concise breakdown of why the government is in shutdown (failure to pass appropriations bills) and laments the lack of real progress in Congress.
  • “They have kicked the can down the road for almost my entire adult life, it seems, and they continue to do it.” (Fred Bird, 19:13)
• Fred takes off his “CSF hat” and provides a candid, personal take on Congressional dysfunction and its tangible consequences, particularly regarding matching funds for conservation projects dependent on PR/DJ/Wallop-Breaux excise tax disbursements.
• Detailed rundown of which public lands and services are considered "essential” versus “non-essential” during a shutdown, with real-world impacts on maintenance, staff, and public access.
  • “While the national parks and national wildlife refuges keep roads open ... there is not a lot of staffing ... This has been a big, big problem in the past as far as vandalism, poaching—people know that there’s nobody there.” (Ashley, 23:33)
• Example: BLM wild horse facilities and how the shutdown stalls adoptions, creating inefficiencies and increased taxpayer costs.
• Reflection on how people react only when directly affected, citing TSA agents as a recent example, and speculation about the possible intent of such governance failures (privatization, forced layoffs).
  • “You don’t really get called to action until it personally affects you. You know, your wallet takes a hit, or something you care or love is all of a sudden inaccessible or taken away from you.” (Fred Bird, 26:37)

4. Hunter-Led Conservation: EHD Crisis in Ohio

[28:04 – 34:06]

• Highlight of hunter initiative in Ohio, where EHD decimated local deer populations. Instead of agency-mandated closures, hunters are voluntarily reducing their take to help the herd recover.
  • "Hunters themselves are voluntarily not shooting as many deer in those counties because they've said, look, we know what needs to happen." (Ashley, 29:43)
• Fred emphasizes the growing culture of responsible, science-minded hunters working alongside agencies, contrasting entitlement vs. stewardship mindsets.
  • "That's that culture, you know, we've been working through for the last couple decades instead of this entitlement mindset. ... the science and the numbers be damned, I want my deer, I want my turkey.” (Fred Bird, 31:02)
• Discussion of challenges in real-time management responses, noting how state agency structure (commission vs. legislative management) can facilitate or hinder timely reactions to crises.
  • “Not every state agency ... have[s] the ability to close seasons in real time ... wildlife management through legislation ... is far more bureaucratic, it takes way too long.” (Fred Bird, 32:38)
• Concerns that some legislatures are moving to reclaim authority from commissions, occasionally hindering science-based management for political reasons.
  • “These decisions need to be science based ... legislators have no business as a body doing this.” (Fred Bird, 36:15)

5. Legislative & Policy Watch: The Good, the Bad, and the Unfinished

[39:29 – 49:31]

• Despite budget inaction, progress is noted on some conservation-related bills, including an act to create the Mississippi River Basin Fishery Commission—a bipartisan move to fight invasive carp and boost native fisheries.
  • “These states have finally banded together ... All of these states have come together [in] a joint strategic plan recommending the commission be formed.” (Ashley, 41:15)
• Fred previews CSF’s proactive 2026 policy priorities:
  • Hunter education in schools
  • "No net loss" public lands access
  • College license residency fixes—a fiscal bridge for out-of-state college students so they don't lapse as hunters:

    "Our policy and our language allows for these out of staters ... to have that in state resident license fee so they can continue ... on their career ... being a sportsman or women so that they're not getting lapsed.” (Fred Bird, 44:24)

  • Ballot initiative reforms: Raising thresholds for wildlife management changes to 2/3 majorities to check the influence of outside, anti-hunting groups.

    "If it's not just a simple majority and you're really dedicated to whatever anti position you have, you get to come correct. So it may ... stop some people ... not just throwing that money around." (Fred Bird, 45:54)

• Warnings about legislative efforts in some states to increase excise taxes on firearms/ammo or mandate high insurance for hunters (notably California), which effectively price out responsible shooters/hunters but don’t address actual crime.

6. The Gap in Agency Management: Experience Matters

[49:31 – 54:21]

• Fred describes his recent experience at Furtakers of America Trappers College—an intensive training for trappers in partnership with Purdue and Indiana DNR. Notably, many agency staff/biologists are attending because they lack real-world hunting/trapping experience.

  “What we've identified ... a lot of this new generation ... are coming to work without hands on experience. They've never hunted, they've never fished, never mind never trapped. ... And if you've never touched it, it's really hard ... to manage and why we have these prescriptive management tools.” (Fred Bird, 50:45)

• Ashlee highlights complementary programs that introduce wildlife science students to hunting and fieldwork, like NIFWITH’s Academics Afield, making sure tomorrow’s wildlife professionals have firsthand experience.
• Fred closes:

  “Maybe hunting is not for them, and that's fine. But also understanding what true conservation is ... they come out ... being labeled as conservationists when really they've been indoctrinated with this preservationist mindset." (Fred Bird, 53:24)

• Ashlee adds:

  “We're not preservationists.” (Ashley, 54:16)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Responsible Modern Hunting:

  “Responsible, conservation-minded hunters ... recognize a problem and step up. And that's what we want. That's that culture ... instead of this entitlement mindset.”
  – Fred Bird [31:02]

• On Government Dysfunction:

  “They have kicked the can down the road for almost my entire adult life, it seems ... Both sides are doing it constantly. It's ... a nonpartisan issue.”
  – Fred Bird [19:13]

• On Agency Authority and Science:

  “These decisions need to be science based ... legislators have no business as a body doing this.”
  – Fred Bird [36:15]

• On Integrating Field Skills for Biologists:

  “If you've never touched [hunting/trapping], it's really hard to have a complete holistic picture of how to manage ... our wildlife.”
  – Fred Bird [50:45]

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:10 – Ashlee's bulldog story and pet safety warning
• 06:09 – Fred’s fall hunting update; Maine's wild turkey bag limits
• 10:27 – Behind Maine’s “hidden” turkey abundance, agricultural politics
• 13:17 – Ashlee asks about selecting which turkeys to hunt (hens or toms)
• 15:40 – The controversy around fall turkey seasons in the US South
• 16:06 – US Government shutdown overview
• 18:51 – Fred's candid take on Congress and conservation funding
• 24:02 – Shutdown practical impact: parks, poaching, BLM, public access
• 28:04 – EHD in Ohio: hunter-led conservation, voluntary restraint
• 32:38 – Real-time crisis response: legislative vs. commission management
• 39:29 – Legislative wins: Mississippi River Basin Fisheries Commission
• 44:24 – New CSF priorities for upcoming state legislative sessions
• 49:31 – Agency employee training deficit; trappers college
• 53:24 – Preservationist vs. conservationist mindset in wildlife management

Tone and Takeaways

Laid-back but frank, this episode deftly blends personal anecdotes, conservation policy, cultural shifts in hunting, and real-world management challenges. Ashlee and Fred’s rapport is collegial and sincere—full of mutual respect, humor, and a shared commitment to science-based conservation. Listeners gain both a macro and micro understanding of hunting’s evolving role in conservation, the perils of poor governance, and the importance of maintaining hunter-education pipelines—for professionals and the public alike.

For those passionate about the future of conservation, hunting, and wildlife policy in America, this episode is a must-listen.