The Origins Foundation Podcast: Roundup 162

Warning Not To Eat Maine Wild Deer/Turkey, Ostrich Cull in Canada, and an LA Menhaden Ruling

Date: November 12, 2025
Hosts: The Origins Foundation team (speakers: "A" and "B")

Episode Overview

This episode of The Origins Foundation Podcast, "Roundup 162," navigates several urgent conservation and wildlife management stories: a state-issued warning about consuming wild game in Maine due to PFAS contamination, a controversial mass ostrich cull in Canada related to avian flu control policies, and recent disappointing policy news for menhaden fisheries in Louisiana. The hosts dissect these issues with their trademark blend of humor, lived experience, and insightful critique—highlighting failures and wins in wildlife policy, the importance of sustainable use, and the real human and ecological stakes at play.

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Community, Conservation, and Hunting Culture (00:02–09:46)

• Reaffirming the Podcast’s Mission:

  • The hosts revisit the founding purpose of The Origins Foundation: “We need to champion the truth around what we do and who we are.” (A, 00:02)
  • Emphasis on narrative control and the social role of hunting in funding and implementing effective conservation.

• Personal Detours & Humor:

  • Anecdotes about home cooking (brisket and seafood feasts), field gear, and coffee preferences add authenticity, camaraderie, and entertainment value (especially, playful confessions about Starbucks orders, 10:06–10:55).

2. Maine’s “Do Not Eat” Advisory for Wild Game (14:19–21:15)

• PFAS Contamination and Health Risks:

  • Maine expands its “do not eat” advisory for deer and turkey due to “forever chemicals,” namely PFAS. PFAS can cause immune issues, cancer, and more (B, 14:47–15:14).
  • Bioaccumulation and industrial legacy pollution—particularly in areas with historic manufacturing—are major underlying causes.

• Discussion and Speculation:

  • Is Maine uniquely at risk, or simply uniquely proactive in monitoring/testing?
  • Widespread presence of PFAS makes isolation difficult: “These things are everywhere... literally just about anything that we touch now.” (B, 15:14)
  • PR concern: Could advisories undermine public/hunter perceptions of wild game as a healthy, sustainable protein source?
  • “Still probably safer than farmed animals shot through with hormones...” (B, 19:36)

• Call to Action: Listeners invited to weigh in and share local perspectives, especially those with relevant experience (20:47–20:54).

Notable Quote:
“I don’t think it’s widespread at levels that are dangerous to humans.” (A, 18:47)

3. Bear Conflicts in Japan and North America (21:15–27:00)

• Japanese Bear Management:

  • Spike in human-bear conflicts. Japanese bear control is hampered by an aging hunter population and cumbersome procedures: “The guy that shot the bear was 78 years old.” (A, 23:06)
  • Japanese law mandates survival testing before euthanizing trapped bears—inefficient and stressful for all involved.

• Sustainable Use Model Discussion:

  • Japan’s situation showcases the need for more sustainable use strategies and generational succession in wildlife management.

• North American Context:

  • Recent grizzly attacks in Canada and Montana, with increasing human–wildlife conflict as wild biomass shrinks and human populations expand.
  • Reference to Don Pinnock’s opinion piece and the landmark “Global biomass of mammals since 1850” paper.

Notable Moment:
“No young people want to come into this... It’s dangerous, it’s hard.” (A, 23:54)

4. Decline of Global Wild Mammal Biomass & Conservation Efforts (27:00–36:29)

• Key Stats from the Nature Communications study:

  • In 1850, wild mammals’ global biomass was roughly equal to that of humans and domesticated mammals.
  • Today, humans and their animals outweigh wild mammals 10:1.
  • Dramatic declines in marine mammal biomass (70% since 1850) and mixed results for terrestrial wildlife—some species (like whitetail deer and alligator in North America) are rebounding, unlike large species (bison, elephants, big cats).

• Role of Conservation Models:

  • North American conservation and sustainable hunting approaches credited for bouncing back certain populations.
  • Success stories: Bison recovery, modeled in part on what hosts compare to alligator management policies.

Memorable Analogy:
“It’s like snakes and ladders. You guys are climbing the ladder, and then somebody does something stupid and you just slide down.” (A, 00:31)

5. The Bison Comeback and Challenges (36:29–40:43)

• Bison Recovery Updates:

  • More than 2,300 bison reintroduced to tribal lands since 2020; over 500,000 in N. America (80% privately managed).
  • Desirability of bison meat, limitations of reproductive biology, and tension between private production and wild-nature goals.
  • Calls for bison repopulation on public and tribal lands, but logistical and economic hurdles remain.

• Farm Model Comparisons:

  • Alligator population management cited as a template for balancing farm and wild populations (B, 39:18–40:01).

6. Louisiana Menhaden Buffer Zone Ruling (40:43–47:03)

• Menhaden (Pogie) Fishery Conflict:
  • Recent Louisiana Wildlife Commission vote reduces protective “buffer zones” for commercial menhaden harvest, against widespread conservationist opposition.
  • Bycatch (accidental catch of non-target species) and ecosystem impacts spotlighted—“they suck in everything...sport fish...dolphins...tarpon.” (B, 42:19).
  • Conservation community feels outgunned by industry influence and political pressure.
  • Next steps: 35-day public comment period, with hope that listener action can help influence final outcome.

Notable Quote:
“It’s a loss for conservationists… There's a large coalition that has been fighting this, fighting this, fighting this.” (B, 43:22)

7. Canadian Ostrich Cull Controversy (47:03–53:33)

• Avian Influenza Outbreak and Government Response:

  • Two ostriches tested positive for H1N1; government invoked “stamp out” protocol, killing almost 400 ostriches, despite only a handful testing positive and legal opposition from the farm.
  • Policy designed for poultry, indiscriminately applied to ostrich operation.
  • Legal appeals failed; harrowing culling footage galvanized public protest, politicians condemned “a poorly executed operation.”

• Policy Critique:

  • Lack of case-by-case, evidence-based management underscored: “Following a policy for the sake of following the policy is the overriding theme.” (A, 49:57)
  • International (WHO) pandemic protocols influenced domestic action, limiting flexibility.

Powerful Moment:
“...a policy is blindly followed without the need for evidence-based decision making...300 ostriches, more than a thousand rounds of ammunition was used.” (A, 49:57 & 51:52)

8. Listener Engagement and Closing (53:33–54:29)

• Future Episodes: Next roundup expected from South Africa.
• Invitation for Feedback: Listeners encouraged to text thoughts or news to 601-790-0607.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the challenge of conservation narrative:

  “We need to champion the truth around what we do and who we are.”
  (A, 00:02)

• Analogy for the state of wildlife management:

  “It's like snakes and ladders. You guys are climbing the ladder, and then somebody does something stupid and you just slide down.”
  (A, 00:31)

• On the impact of PFAS:

  “These things are everywhere... literally just about anything that we touch now.”
  (B, 15:14)

• Sustainable use in Japan:

  “No young people want to come into this... It's dangerous, it's hard.”
  (A, 23:54)

• Biomass shift since 1850:

  “Today, the human population is more than 8 billion, which is crazy.”
  (B, 28:31)

• Menhaden ruling frustration:

  “It’s a loss for conservationists... there's a large coalition that has been fighting this, fighting this, fighting this.”
  (B, 43:22)

• On the ostrich cull:

  “Following a policy for the sake of following the policy is the overriding theme…300 ostriches, more than a thousand rounds of ammunition was used.”
  (A, 49:57, 51:52)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Why We Started (Championing Hunting’s Narrative): 00:02–00:45
• Maine PFAS Advisory and Wild Meat Safety: 14:19–21:15
• Bear Attacks and Problem Bear Management in Japan/Canada: 21:15–27:00
• Biomass Study Discussion & Conservation Models: 27:00–36:29
• Bison Recovery and Farming Challenges: 36:29–40:43
• Louisiana Menhaden Ruling Explained: 40:43–47:03
• Canada Ostrich Cull Story and Policy Critique: 47:03–53:33
• Listener Callouts & Episode Wrap-Up: 53:33–end

Episode Tone

Relaxed, conversational, and at times irreverent, but also deeply committed to science-based conservation and the real-world impacts of wildlife policy. The hosts balance humor, outrage, and expertise, inviting listener participation and critical thinking.

For Further Engagement

• Feedback & News: Text or message the show at 601-790-0607
• Podcast references: Details and links to specific research articles, reports, and related podcasts are posted on The Origins Foundation’s social media channels.