The Origins Foundation Podcast

Episode: Roundup 164 - NFWS's Wildlife Refuge Review, Colorado Wolves Showdown W/The Feds, And More!

Date: January 7, 2026
Host(s): The Origins Foundation (Robbie, Ashley)

Episode Overview

This first Roundup of 2026 delivers a fast-paced, detailed conversation between the hosts, centering on major conservation developments, public land policy, and topical debates in hunting and wildlife management. Main themes include:

• A looming nationwide review of the National Wildlife Refuge System and fears about its future,
• A federal versus state clash over Colorado's wolf reintroduction,
• The ongoing debate over the terminology and ethics in hunting (harvest vs. kill),
• Updates on documentary projects, film festivals, and current events in hunting/conservation,
• Pressing listener questions about Missouri's CWD (Chronic Wasting Disease) management policy changes.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Opening & Podcast Reflections

• The hosts exchange holiday stories and emphasize the importance of championing hunter narratives and authenticity in conservation conversations.
• Robbie and Ashley reminisce about memorable past podcast episodes, highlighting #5 with Kenyan activist Mimo Somay (11:03), which forcibly addressed misconceptions about American hunting in Africa:
  • “She had all these questions, and I was like, I cannot answer these... But I have a podcast… I'll answer every single question you have, honestly.” — Robbie [11:08]

2. Origins Foundation Project & Film Festival Updates

• Origins’ elephant documentary (A Fine Balance) is officially selected for Nairobi’s Pridelands Film Festival (13:29), with hopes of capturing both the audience’s reaction and Q&A in Nairobi.
• Tides of Change, a sea turtle film, wins an award and is pending selection at the Atlanta Short Film Documentary Festival (15:35), public release hoped for June 2026.
• Ongoing bear documentary work in Mississippi (16:32).
• Notable Quote:
  • “People’s stories, people's lives changing, people's attitudes changing.” — Robbie on Tides of Change’s focus [16:08]

3. Florida Black Bear Hunt—Controversy and Outcomes

• Only 52 bears harvested out of a quota of 172, after a long hiatus; significant funds raised for bear conservation (17:14 – 22:58).
  • Comparison to the 2015 season, in which 3,700 permits were issued and 349 bears taken (23:31).
• Discussion on anti-hunting actions such as buying out hunting tags to prevent bear harvest (20:00).
• The hosts critically analyze social media impact—highlighting how bad hunting images and videos can damage public trust and “social license” (24:00).
  • “We work so hard day in and day out on our social license tied to hunting, and you get one video like that…” — Robbie [26:12]

4. Harvest vs. Kill: Language Wars in Hunting

• Upcoming podcast with James Nash and Charles Whitwam on semantics (17:14).
• Robbie and Ashley debate whether controversy over the term “harvest” originates primarily within or outside the hunting community:
  • "It's only controversial inside the hunting space." — Robbie [17:59]
  • "See, I disagree. I think that the anti hunters are the ones that are saying don't say harvest. It's just killing." — Ashley [17:52]
• “Harvest” as conveying broader respect and utilization, vs. “kill” as blunt/unapologetic.

5. National Wildlife Refuge System Funding Crisis & Federal Review (27:26–39:24)

• Background: Declining federal support has left refuges horrifically understaffed and unmanaged, with poaching and habitat degradation rising (27:41).
• Director Brian Nesvik’s December 15 order for a rapid nationwide review—analysis covers 573 refuges, marine parks (almost a billion acres!), and all national fish hatcheries (32:54).
  • "They have not even three weeks over Christmas and New Years to do a full review!” — Ashley [34:00]
• Concerns: The timeline, ambiguous end goal, and “alignment with mission” language prompt deep fears:
  • "My fear is that they're lining up to firing the refuge itself..." — Robbie [36:27]
  • Ashley speculates the review may lay groundwork to decommission or privatize refuges in the name of fiscal conservatism (36:34).
• The unique importance of friends’ groups—local citizens stepping in where federal staff have dwindled.
• The hosts urge listeners to speak up in defense of public lands as the review proceeds:
  • "We need to speak up about this... The people who voted for the administration don't want that, I can tell you." — Ashley [38:00]
• [See more on this starting at 27:30 – policy implications at 35:45.]

6. Colorado’s Wolf Saga: State vs. Federal Showdown (39:27–48:22)

• Robbie describes recent federal (NFWS/Nesvik) intervention:
  • Colorado barred from further sourcing Canadian wolves for reintroduction due to ESA compliance and 10(j) rule loopholes (39:52).
  • Multiple U.S. states and even tribal nations refuse to supply wolves; only Oregon and Washington considered, complications with tribal opposition.
• The Copper Creek Pack exemplifies management chaos—wolves wander into New Mexico, requiring repatriation (40:58).
• Feds escalate: Demand full transparency on all wolf actions since 2023 and threaten to strip Colorado’s authority if non-compliance continues (43:18).
  • “Shit is hitting the ceiling fan.” — Ashley [43:53]
• The hosts express frustration at the politically-driven process, with questions about the real drivers behind reintroduction and the ballooning costs for Coloradoans:
  • “It's just the classic, how many stupid bureaucratic decisions can we make?” — Ashley [47:32]

7. Missouri CWD Management Program Cancellation (48:29–55:56)

• Context: Missouri recently revoked its voluntary post-season deer management (DMAP) program in CWD-affected regions after political backlash (49:29).
• “CWD is a political disease”—the phrase emerges to spotlight growing science denial and rural mistrust around the fatal deer illness.
  • "So like essentially saying CWD is a hoax and the scientific community knows that it's not. It's a real disease. There is very, very ample evidence of. And it's 100 fatal.” — Ashley [50:00]
• Ashley previews an upcoming interview with Jason Sumners, director of Missouri Department of Conservation, about the policy decision.
• Devil’s advocate questions: What happens if CWD isn’t controlled? Will the deer population collapse?
  • “The worst possible outcome is that CWD just continues to spread like wildfire and wipes out their deer population.” — Ashley [52:11]
• Robbie suggests perhaps the only way some will believe is to “see” the devastation—using voluntary programs as a “natural experiment” (53:10).
  • “Maybe we need to see that in the natural system for somebody to take it seriously or not take it seriously.” — Robbie [54:00]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "She had all these questions, and I was like, I cannot answer these... But I have a podcast… I'll answer every single question you have, honestly.” — Robbie [11:08]
• "We work so hard day in and day out on our social license tied to hunting, and you get one video like that…” — Robbie [26:12]
• “My fear is that they're lining up to firing the refuge itself…” — Robbie [36:27]
• “The people who voted for the administration don't want that, I can tell you.” — Ashley [38:00]
• “Shit is hitting the ceiling fan.” — Ashley [43:53]
• "CWD is a political disease... saying CWD is a hoax and the scientific community knows that it's not.” — Ashley [50:00]
• “Maybe we need to see that in the natural system for somebody to take it seriously or not take it seriously.” — Robbie [54:00]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [11:03] – Kenyan activist Mimo Somay episode reflection
• [13:29] – Pridelands Film Festival selection
• [15:35] – Tides of Change award and upcoming release
• [17:14] – Florida black bear hunt analysis, “harvest vs. kill” language
• [24:00] – Social license and viral media’s harm to hunting
• [27:26] – National Wildlife Refuge System funding crisis and review details
• [36:27–38:23] – Fears for the future of public lands raised
• [39:27–48:22] – Colorado wolf reintroduction and federal conflict
• [48:29–55:56] – Missouri CWD program discussion, “political disease”
• [56:54] – Invitation for listener feedback and topic suggestions

Closing & Listener Call-to-Action

• Listeners are encouraged to participate: text, DM, or leave voice notes with their thoughts and topic requests ([56:54] and [57:01]).
• Closing notes feature a tongue-in-cheek campaign to send Ashley to Kenya for the film festival, linking donation support to continued podcast storytelling and fieldwork.

Summary

Roundup 164 presents a comprehensive, sometimes irreverent, but always insightful sweep of current conservation issues across the U.S. The blend of reporting, analysis, lively debate, and storytelling makes this episode a goldmine for anyone invested in the dynamic—and often contentious—interface of hunting, conservation policy, and wildlife management. With humor and depth, the hosts effectively champion transparency, science, and the power of public engagement in defending North America’s wild heritage.