Ebola dodging, Being a Savant in France, and who knew Corner Crossing would be the hornets nest it is!

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Origins Foundation Podcast

Episode: Roundup with Robbie and Ashlee
Date: June 10, 2026
Hosts: Robbie & Ashlee (The Origins Foundation)

Episode Overview

This episode of The Origins Foundation Podcast, hosted by Robbie and Ashlee, functions as a wide-ranging roundup of current issues, travels, and ongoing debates in conservation, wildlife, and hunting policy. The hosts reflect on recent trips (including Kenya, Mozambique, and France), discuss the reception of their latest documentaries, dive into the complexities of wildlife management (from birding economics to legislative minutiae), and unpack hot-button legal issues like public land access and corner crossing. The tone is conversational, candid, and occasionally irreverent, true to the podcast’s ethos of not shying away from “hard conversations” in the sustainable use space.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Updates on Travels and Projects

[03:14–12:00] Robbie's African Journey and Rhino Documentary

• Robbie recounts recent travels to South Africa, Mozambique, Kenya, and France, emphasizing how heavily populated Kenya has become, with over 60 million people—almost twice Texas’s population in a space slightly smaller ([05:19]).
• Shares an anecdote about narrowly missing riots in Kenya due to Ebola-related quarantine facility plans:

  "They rioted and two people died. So luckily I didn't drive." ([06:24])

• Notes the logistical difficulties of travel in Africa, commenting on old planes, lack of radar, and harrowing flights over the Great Rift Valley ([09:01–11:38]).
• Robbie and Ashlee celebrate the successful completion of a rhino documentary, and discuss the elephant hunting documentary "The Fine Balance," which was recently screened at a wildlife conservation film festival in Kenya ([12:08–16:00]).

2. Reception and Impact of “The Fine Balance” in Kenya

[12:08–16:36]

• The documentary’s official selection was controversial; Kenya has banned hunting since 1977.
• Robbie notes the Q&A at the screening:
  • Festival jury was split 50/50 due to the film’s focus on hunting and perceived bias.
  • Robbie admits:

    "Nobody had bothered to tell this side of the story ever before. So that’s why I decided to focus on it... Yes, I'm just going to show you everything I see because I was seeing it." ([14:05–14:48])

• Memorable moment:
  • A shy audience member thanks Robbie on the mic (posted on Instagram).
  • A prepared audience member asked detailed questions, wanting to understand the value of wildlife, highlighting a gap in public understanding beyond ecotourism ([15:10–16:36]).

3. Birding, Conservation Economics, and the Birding Doc “Listers”

[17:50–23:13]

• Discussion turns to the popularity and economics of birdwatching:

  "Birdwatchers spend more money than all other hunting and fishing combined." – Ashlee ([20:25])

• Robbie describes time spent with birders in Mozambique and how hunting camps are full of birders in the offseason, supporting a diversified model for wildlife-based revenue ([21:22]).
• The hosts recommend the film "Listers" (YouTube, ~1:45), about the birding “Big Year.”

  "It is amazing… they expose the inner circle of bird watchers who like, chastise this one kid..." – Robbie ([19:42])

• Light-hearted segment on obsessiveness of birdwatchers and DIY squirrel-prevention methods for bird feeders ([22:03–22:39]).

4. Reflections on Conservation Storytelling & Audience Engagement

[25:17–27:46]

• Robbie expresses frustration that nuanced, cinematic conservation stories like “Savon Bambi”—about hunters saving deer in France—don’t get “sexy” engagement compared to high-action hunting content:

  "I just don’t think our content...gets as much engagement as we should. We don’t because it’s not sexy." ([25:41]) "We’re creating content that isn’t built for our community. So then we’re shooting ourselves in the other kneecap..." ([26:52])

• Ashlee counters that beautiful storytelling is valuable and meaningful, even if it appeals to a different or smaller audience.

5. Conservation Policy and U.S. Legislative Updates

[27:54–35:40]

• Ashlee explains the progress of the House Appropriations bill and contrasts it with the President’s budget:

  “... President’s budget came out, and we were like, it was terrible, terrible.” ([28:03])

• Cuts to Fish and Wildlife Service and BLM highlighted; Ashlee voices concern about reduced federal funding affecting management, law enforcement, and habitat ([29:08–32:29]):

  “We’ve got to start getting these members of Congress out into the field to see what’s going on... There are no law enforcement...” ([32:13])

• Discussion transitions to new hunting access openings on refuges, with Ashlee criticizing broadening ATV/UTV access:

  “I just think it’s a huge disturbance to the wildlife... and almost every single biologist that I’ve talked to, 100% agrees.” ([35:23])

6. Deep Dive: Corner Crossing and Public Land Access Law

[35:52–43:49]

• They break down the “corner crossing” issue—where the legality of moving between public lands at intersecting corners is hotly contested. Wyoming’s 10th Circuit ruling currently allows it, but Montana is pushing back.
• Ashlee explains relevant case law, including Camfield v. U.S. and Leo Sheep Co., clarifying public versus private rights at these junctures ([41:49–43:47]).

  “You cannot use private property rights to functionally monopolize public access.” – Ashlee ([41:49])

• Montana’s new lawsuit could produce a conflicting ruling, potentially pushing the issue to the Supreme Court ([43:47]).

7. The Private Land Integrity Act & the Bird Rule

[44:13–47:43]

• Ashlee details the introduction of the Private Land Integrity Act, aimed at tightening protections against the sale or disposal of public lands through changes to the Senate’s Byrd rule.

  “This legislation would amend the Senate’s bird rule... so any provision in a budget reconciliation bill that sells, transfers, or disposes federal public land would be considered extraneous.” ([45:29])

• She explains the difficulty of passing rules that change legislative procedure, but highlights its bipartisan and conservationist support ([46:13–47:43]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “There’s a sweet spot with a gun... Too heavy and it’s a burden to walk with... too light and you’re whipping it.” – Robbie ([01:02])
• "Ivory, in my opinion, was the plastic of its age." – Robbie ([01:34])
• On Kenya: “Supposedly the Great Rift Valley... was full forests and into the bottom of savannahs. It’s all gone. It’s all farmland now.” – Robbie ([04:21])
• "Birdwatchers spend more money than all other hunting and fishing combined." – Ashlee ([20:25])
• "Nobody had bothered to tell this side of the story ever before. So that’s why I decided to focus on it." – Robbie ([14:05])
• “We’re creating content that isn’t built for our community. So then we’re shooting ourselves in the other kneecap...” – Robbie ([26:52])
• “You cannot use private property rights to functionally monopolize public access.” – Ashlee ([41:49])

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Travel Stories and Setting the Stage: 03:14–12:00
• Kenya, Conservation Film Festival, and Discussion of Bias: 12:08–16:48
• Wildlife Value Gaps and Ecotourism in Kenya: 15:10–16:48
• Birding Economics, “Listers” Film, and Birding Culture: 17:50–23:13
• Reflections on Conservation Storytelling: 25:17–27:46
• Legislative/Policy Roundup (US Budget, Access, Funding): 27:54–35:40
• Corner Crossing Deep Dive: 35:52–43:49
• Private Land Integrity Act and Rule Changes: 44:13–47:43

---

Conclusion

Robbie and Ashlee wrap up with calls for listener engagement, promising more episodes soon and inviting feedback on controversial conservation and legal issues. The discussion is equal parts policy, adventure travelogue, and community introspection—highlighting the multifaceted nature of conservation, hunting, and wildlife advocacy today.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

So five years ago, there was a reason why I started this movement. And the truth then is the truth now that we need to champion our narrative. We need to champion the truth around what we do and who we are. There's a sweet spot with a gun, you know, too heavy and it's a burden to walk with to too light and you whipping it. Why is the project so important to the hunting community? It's. It's a. I think it's not only important, I think it's. I think it's vital. I think it's. It's just in time. It's like snakes and ladders. You guys are climbing the ladder and then somebody does something stupid and you just slide down. That is such an amazing analogy. Snakes and ladders. Yeah. You know, ivory, in my opinion, was the plastic of its age. Okay, okay.

[C]

The expenses are going up. It goes a long way with families. We have families that do need it.

[B]

Let me close this door because I have a little wiener dog. What? You are. You're laughing because I said wiener.

[C]

I'm really glad you finished the sentence out. I'm sorry the first happened. What are we doing here today?

[B]

You're telling the whole world. All right, we're back. We're back live, we think to our massive audience of 10,000 people listening to us live. Ashley, can you believe that? And you have no makeup on

[C]

you. You did not warn me.

[B]

Oh, man. We haven't done one of these in a while.

[C]

I know. I'm on summer schedule, so I'm in the running my kids to their various activities now. No makeup, Trying to survive and get work done.

[B]

Well, that's you've got the opportunity to work from home. I don't know how parents do America summers if both people are working in an office.

[C]

You've got to get help. Yeah, You've got to get help or send them. That's what I used to do.

[B]

Back to back to back to back to back.

[C]

Yeah. Because for years I worked in an office. But it's, you know, Or. Yeah. Camps. I had mine in camps when they were little.

[B]

Little bitty.

[C]

They get dropped off in the morning with their backpacks and their lunches and all this stuff.

[B]

There we go.

[C]

Just like school.

[B]

Well, we are back. 40 days of jaunting around the world. Not really around the world halfway.

[C]

I mean, a lot. A lot of different countries, though.

[B]

4. South Africa, Mozambique, Kenya, France. Yep. No foreign diseases, no malaria, no bulhasia, no cholera, no tick bite fever, and no Ebola.

[C]

I'm so glad because there's a lot of that going around, apparently.

[B]

Yep. I got a email from my global entry saying if you've been to the drc, Uganda or South Sudan, which is technically all around Kenya, that you have to go through these specific airports. And I am. Did not go to those countries, but I did get sort of touched by Ebola because where I was in Laikipia county, which is the center of Kenya, I drove into Lakipia county along the Great Rift Valley. Dude. Like, the road is on the escarpment that looks into the Great Rift Valley.

[C]

Is it beautiful?

[B]

No. Oh, because it's just people.

[C]

Oh.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

Like living.

[B]

Yeah. No people. Got. It's just so populated. Kenya is now 65 million people. And supposedly the Great Rift Valley, like looking down the escarpment was full forests and into the bottom of savannahs. It's all gone. It's all farmland now.

[C]

Really? 65 million people in Kenya?

[B]

Yeah. Or 60 million, I think something like that.

[C]

How big is Kenya compared to, like Texas?

[B]

Let me do some googling. Compare Texas to Kenya. Let's have a look. Kenya is about 1.2 times smaller than Texas. So about the. Roughly the same size as Texas.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

How many people live in Texas? Do we know?

[C]

I don't. Well, between Houston and Dallas, probably a lot.

[B]

60 million.

[C]

Let's just find out.

[B]

31 million.

[C]

Okay. Oh, my gosh. That is crazy. That's what I just got too. So a little bit smaller than Texas with over twice the number of people.

[B]

Yeah. And just so we drove up. What I'm trying to get at is on the way back, I was supposed to drive back through a town called Nanuki. And three days, two days before I was supposed to drive back, the Trump administration announced that they were going to build a. Not build, but house the quarantine facility for aid workers and Americans coming out of Uganda in Nanuki. And the Kenyans did not like that.

[C]

Well, I mean, it's got to be built somewhere.

[B]

So they rioted in Nanooki and they. Two people died.

[C]

Wait, why is Trump deciding where it's going to be built in Kenya?

[B]

That's what was the news. That was what is the news. So it's all I know.

[C]

Interesting, I'll have to look that up.

[B]

But they rioted and two people died. So luckily I didn't drive. I got put into a small 235 plane, which was a very like, I've, I haven't been in many dodgy planes before. And Sean Utram, I apologize for me calling your plane a dodgy plane, but it is 2026 and my friends, big changes have happened in the world of firearm suppressors. The $200 tax stamp fee is now gone. Huge win for hunters, huge win for shooters, and a huge win for your wallets. If you're thinking about elevating your shooting experience and adding a suppressor, Silence Essential is the best way to shop. And you don't even have to get off your couch to do it. Go to silenceessential.com, browse hundreds of suppressor options. They literally have all the popular makes and models. Then their experts will walk you through setting up your account, creating a free NFA trust, and then submitting your application to the atf. Once approved, Silence Essential ships your new suppressor directly to your door. That's when you're going to have to essentially get off the couch. It's a game changer, guys. You haven't done it yet. Do it. The old days of waiting eight to 10 months on a suppressor are gone. It's more like two weeks. Some have even gotten their suppressors in shorter timeframes. It's never been easier to start shooting suppressed. Get started today by visiting silencer central.com it's really the simplest way to get your suppressors. Bushnell is eager to help you get set up for conservation success. That's right. They want to help you. The conservation and research community is dominated by good people doing good things and investing significant time and effort for the benefit of habitat and the species. So what do you need to do? Pretty simple. Send us your conservation story and or your conservation wish could be managing whitetails, could be Understanding your environment or species or something else related to conservation. What would you be able to do if you had a great trail camera setup? We will select the best story every other month and send you a camera bundle. Cell camera, normal, SD camera, SD cards, as well as optics. Everything you need to get set up for success. I can't wait to see what you submit. You can email us, DM us, message us, whatever you want. We are not hard to find. Good luck. Like, it was old. It was an old school plane. It was great. They loved it. Right? That's what you need. You need a plane to get around these countries. Right?

[C]

Right.

[B]

Because the roads are horrendous, the traffic's horrendous, the trucks are horrendous. We got in this plane, there were four of us. Luckily there was another plane that landed before mine because all of the luggage went into that plane. Otherwise I don't think we would have taken off. And it's a, it's a site plane, so it doesn't have any radar controls in the plane.

[C]

No instruments?

[B]

No, it's got instruments, of course, but not radar instruments.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

And half the flight was in the clouds.

[C]

Is that the one? I saw that you sent me a video and it looked like you were kind of hanging out the side of the plane.

[B]

No, no, no, that was on the way into Mozambique. The rain followed us. The rain went. Was with us the entire time. But this one was. No, I didn't take any video because I was in the backseat and I get, I get seasick, which means I get like in little planes, like, I get air sick too. And I was stuck in the back and it was like I just had the cold vent on my head just going, please, please, please, please. Just, you know, and the planes going like this up and down in the clouds.

[C]

Did you throw up?

[B]

No, no, no, no, I didn't.

[C]

Have I told you, speaking of riding the planes and throwing up, that. Okay, we. We're filming a bear documentary and Drew, our camera guide, threw up in the plane. Yes.

[B]

Well, I can understand that because he's probably looking at a little screen. Oh, I, I did that on the way into NIAs in 2019. I was looking at a little screen of a camera. Filming was two and a half hours. The guy said I was. I literally looked green when I got out the plane and I went and took a three hour nap.

[C]

Yeah, apparently they, they found a little bag on the plane and then they had to fly around with the plane smelling like puke for the whole rest of the Bear spotting.

[B]

Drew.

[C]

So next time you talk to Drew, say, hey, buddy, or gentle reflection. Rough flight.

[B]

Holy smokes. Anyway, this is a rough flight, and you got to remember Nairobi. And we landed at the little local airport next to which is like Wilson Airport or something like that. Wilson Airport is like the most trafficked airport in Africa for, like, small planes. And then Nairobi is one of like the most hubbub airports in Africa. And here we are in a 235 flying through the clouds into a place with no radar.

[C]

Oh, gosh. You made it.

[B]

Made it.

[C]

You're home. And we're glad you're home.

[B]

Yeah, it was amazing. Amazing trip. Amazing rhino documentary. Amazing trip in Mozambique with Mark Haldane. The Kenyan elephant hunting documentary went off like a bomb between on many different ways. But I didn't expect the criticism. I expected criticism. Sorry. I expected a lot of criticism and we didn't.

[C]

I don't know that we've talked about this much on Roundup before. Tell everybody what exactly you were doing in Kenya.

[B]

Okay, so about a year ago, we released an elephant hunting documentary called the Fine Balance. Did very well, very well in Botswana. Very well received. I think it's had like 80,000 views or 85,000 views. And in that time frame, we moved our cheetahs down in South Africa. And during our. When we captured the cheetahs, there was a lady that was with Vincent, who's the guy who died, and her name was Fiona Tunda. And Fiona was a journalist, worked for the BBC in Kenya. And in that, obviously that, you know, that time frame, we were together. I always use opportunities to talk about hunting, always. And I started talking to her about hunting. She's from Kenya. And at the end of it, she said, you know what? I had no idea that hunter spoke the way that you spoke. I took that as a huge compliment. And then she reached out to me and says, hey, I've got this wildlife conservation film festival in Kenya. Do you have any films that you'd like to submit? And I submitted this elephant hunting documentary, being super controversial, to a country that has banned hunting since 1977. And it got in to be screened, not just selected, but officially to be screened. And when I was in Kenya, I obviously saw Fiona for the first time since, and she was like, you know what, it's funny. The jury was divided 50, 50. On your film. 50. 50. 50 to play it. 50. No, this is not good. And the reason why it wasn't good, number one, it's about hunting. Number two, is because it was biased and in the question and answer session of my film, they asked me those questions, like, do you realize that the film was quite biased? Yes, I know. You know, if I was, you know, a very young filmmaker at the time, we've matured in our filmmaking abilities. But nobody had bothered to tell this side of the story ever before. So that's why I decided to focus on it. I didn't ask an anti hunting person or an anti elephant hunting person in Botswana, hey, why don't you want elephant hunting in Botswana? Would I do that today? Probably to set more context. Would I show them all the proof that I found in Botswana about elephant? Yeah, of course I'd show them now. But it was, but it was, you know, me being honest, right? Of course. Like, yes, I'm just going to show you everything I see because I was seeing it.

[C]

When they say bias, they just mean you did not give an opposing point

[B]

of view as a documentarian.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

When you build a documentary, you should just.

[C]

You didn't just lay out all the facts and let the audience decide.

[B]

Correct.

[C]

Okay. Comment. Too much commentary. But I mean, the facts kind of do speak for themselves.

[B]

Well, and that's what you should do as a documentarian, just let the facts speak for themselves. But anyway, the question answer session was amazing. That was pretty much the, the only criticism I received. I had one guy talk to me about ecological and social impacts, which I could answer from a data perspective. The best one we've, we've posted the video on our Instagram was this Muslim guy stood up and he took the microphone. He said, I just want to say thank you for you creating this documentary. I know how much work goes into it. I know what it takes. I just want to say thank you. And I'm normally. And this is what he says. I'm normally a really shy guy and would never get on the microphone. But something just told me to get on the microphone and say thank you. And then this one lady was teed up. She had like a written list of questions. I was like, all right, here we go. Here come the ammunition, here comes the bullets. And she was just more interested in understanding value of wildlife. And that's the key thing there in Kenya, is that they don't understand the value of wildlife. That's why they have no wildlife. Because the government has never provided any value to the wildlife beyond ecotourism and photo tourism. And, and photo tourism is often just restricted to the national parks, which are phenomenal. Right. The Serengeti, phenomenal. Tsavo, phenomenal. The Abadez phenomenal and then you've got these community conservancies like that are phenomenal, but outside of those areas there's nothing.

[C]

Are they regulating it though, in Kenya? Because isn't it getting out of control where they. Photo safaris, because of the sheer volume of people, it's almost turning into like wildlife harassment. I mean, a lot of the videos

[B]

in the national parks. Yeah, for sure. In the national parks, for sure. But these private community conservancies, like even there's a. In La Kipia, the one next door to Socion, where I was. They're very, they're. They are infamous for the black leopard. Oh, la. There's a black leopard there that they see often. They went from one camp to now eight camps in that concession. That concession is only 20,000 hectares. And now it's just like a traffic jam of vehicles.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And the people will go to LA just to see the black leopard. So like a tourist will go. And the black leopard's in the bush, right? You can't see it. And the guards like, hey, we'll come back, let's go see some other stuff. And they're like, nope, we're going to sit here for eight hours until that thing comes out the bush.

[C]

Gosh.

[B]

But that's, you know, checking the box. Right? It's, it's a. It's like bird watching. Talking about bird watching. Do you bird watch? Have you ever like.

[C]

No, I do not. No. I mean, I feed them.

[B]

Okay. So we've started.

[C]

Squirrels get most of it.

[B]

Yeah. So for our Merlin documentary in England, we used Merlin, which is the citizen science app for birds. Right. It's amazing. If you don't know birds, you don't know what. Who's calling you. Just turn it on. It tells you. This whole trip in South Africa, the first day we arrived there, people know the crew that I run, it's Jack and Lewis, typically from a slots media perspective and then add ons. And Freddy was the add on. It's true. But Lewis was completely besotted with a film called Listers.

[C]

Listers.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

List L, I, S, T, E R

[B]

S. You need to. You, the boys and Brad need to watch it tonight.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

It's on YouTube. It's like an hour and 45 minutes. It's a long documentary and it's about a documentary about the Big Year. You know what the big year is? Every year in America, people compete to see how many birds they can check off in one year.

[C]

Oh, oh, okay. So sort of like a turkey grand slam, only they're Bird watchers trying to.

[B]

It's a big year. But then it's these two dope heads that are like 22 and 23. They rig out their Kia Sedona van with double bunks and they literally eat nothing, sleep in Walmart parking lots. Don't know the first thing about birds. And they learn.

[C]

I have heard about this. I haven't heard about this dog, dude.

[B]

It's had like 5 million views on YouTube.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's supposed to be awesome.

[B]

It is amazing.

[C]

Yeah. Like, everybody is turning into bird watchers because of it.

[B]

I'm getting goosebumps because of it. Because. But they expose like, the. The inner circle of bird watchers who like, chastise this one kid because he saw this one bird and he didn't see the bird. And they compared the bars and the. The wings to this other bar and you didn't get a. He was a blurry photograph. And they literally like excommunicated him from the bird community. Okay. And the same person, like one of the people in that community the next year saw the very same bird at the very same time. And it was accepted was very controversial.

[C]

Do you are you aware that birdw watchers spend more money.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Than all other hunting and fishing combined?

[B]

Oh, yeah. So again, to do their thing. That's why I'm talking about birding.

[C]

Because I don't even know what you need other than binoculars.

[B]

But this whole. No, this. Because this whole trip has been about birding. When we were in Mozambique with Mark, there was a birding group in camp, in a hunting camp. And they were there because they're 10 mega ticks in this place. The venga. The Malagasy pond heron. I know all this because I was listening to these birders for five days. Those guys. Mark is brilliant. Like before hunting season starts for three weeks in the spring, his. His camp is packed with burers. When it closes. Camp November 1st for six weeks. The B. The camp is packed with birders and they're paying charter flights in. They're paying big day rates just to check these boxes on these birds.

[C]

Okay. We're gonna have to watch it.

[B]

You have to. Listers. It's everyone out there watch it. It's just the way that they have edited it is amazing. It keeps you engaged. It's like old school camcorder footage with beautiful footage on top of it. They have infographics and whatnot. But the way that they're just like underbelly. The whole, like they even go like undercover and they have like somebody's voice synthesized about like, yeah, that person got excommunicated from the birding community.

[C]

This is so funny. Okay, well, I'm gonna have to watch it. I got a bird buddy or one of those camera things for Christmas, and I haven't put it up yet because

[B]

I'm like, it's obsessive. You'd be obsessed.

[C]

How do you keep the squirrels out of it? I have squirrels. You put a.

[B]

A big cone, metal cone underneath the bird feeder tube. That's what you do.

[C]

Under it or over it?

[B]

Yeah, underneath.

[C]

She went like this.

[B]

Underneath it. So your bird feeder is on the top of the pole. Okay. Underneath the pole you've got this metal cone that comes out. Squirrels will never get around it. Okay, Tell Brad to make it.

[C]

We've talked about this. Weird. Not very DIY around here.

[B]

Hilarious.

[C]

But we do have a bird. There's a whole. Maybe two bird stores here. I'm telling you, it's all about birds.

[B]

You should go into there and say, has anybody here watched Listers?

[C]

Oh, I bet they all have. Yeah.

[B]

These guys, these birders. One of them had watched it, and he was like the. The curmudgeon of the group. And as soon as we said that, he, like, list, he, like, his whole face lightened up.

[C]

That's so funny. Okay, it's on our list.

[B]

It's great. It's great. So, yeah, Kenya with the. The Q and A went really, really well. And actually, I recorded the entire Q and A. So I'm going to create a podcast with the Q and A out of. Out of Kenya. And then we left Kenya and went into France. And at the premiere of Savon Bomby in France in the hunting museum. Museum de la Chasse.

[C]

There's a hunting museum in France?

[B]

In Paris, France. In old. In the old town of Paris.

[C]

Is it cool?

[B]

It's. I didn't get to see it.

[C]

What? You just said it was in there.

[B]

I know. I did. The auditorium. It was in the auditorium downstairs. Supposedly. The museum's amazing. I didn't look at it. I know.

[C]

Is that because you had too good a time the night before?

[B]

No, I didn't. What? What are you talking about? I did partake in some Parisian. Parisian aperitifs and went to this cool restaurant called Le Bistro with an outfitter friend in Paris, and he introduced me to this liqueur called Chartreuse.

[C]

Yes, the green stuff.

[B]

It was light green, and so it was obviously a cousin of absinthe. And.

[C]

And you went blind for the night.

[B]

It was a good night. It was a good night.

[C]

I had to actually let your hair down.

[B]

I actually had to stop the Uber driver because he went past my hotel and only did like 100 yards past the hotel that I realized that he had missed my hotel and I told him to stop, luckily.

[C]

Oh, good, good. Did you miss the hunting museum in Paris where the documentary was shown? Well, so no minus on that.

[B]

It was an F minus. But the hunting museum is part of a hunting club, very prestigious hunting club in Paris that has beautiful dinners and a cigar garden and all sorts of things.

[C]

Sounds very cool. Yeah, Very bougie.

[B]

Very bougie.

[C]

Well, everyone should go watch Savant Bambi. I think that it's the coolest story and the footage is pretty and the deer are amazing and it's a good story about hunters helping save wildlife.

[B]

Yeah. You know, and I'll, I'll have one bitch about Savon Bambi is that I think it should have had way more engagement than it's had already.

[C]

And it just dropped though. Did it just drop?

[B]

But the thing is, here's the thing. It's not sexy content for hunters.

[C]

For me it is.

[B]

Yeah, for you. But for your everyday hunter who likes to watch a hunting film. I think that's why we, we don't get as much engagement as we should. I don't think that somebody's going to sit down and watch the womb because they want an in depth story, a nuanced story, a s, you know, a piece that is full of cinematography. Not like we're going to kill this ibex in the mountains, which I love, don't get me wrong, I, I love those kinds of films and I will watch them whilst I'm in the sauna and that's it. I just, I don't think our content. That's why I think maybe, you know, should we get more engagement? Yes, I believe we should given the numbers we have. But we don't because it's not sexy. Like we should have a thousand shares of Savonba and B, people are getting hooked.

[C]

We have 14 YouTube hunting go out and I mean, gosh, the things that I see my kids watching hunting wise and I'm like, this is stuff is terrible.

[B]

Yep.

[C]

And, and that's what people are getting hooked on watching.

[B]

Well and our community is that. And we, we're creating content that isn't built for our community. Right. So then we're shooting ourselves in the other kneecap because the people that are in the general public may not like what we create either.

[C]

I think it's built for our community. You just have to, you know what say watch. Watch a beautiful film about hunters doing super cool stuff and that's. Right. But can we go back to the part where you just said you watch it in the sauna?

[B]

Yeah, I watch hunting films in the sauna. That's all I do. The only time I watch.

[C]

Does your iPad not overheat?

[B]

My iPhone. My iPhone does not. I put it on the bench so it's like, not up, it's down. So the temperature around where your feet are or your knees are isn't as hot as where your head is.

[C]

Okay, this is interesting. All right, now we all have that mental image of Robbie watching hunting films in the sauna.

[B]

That's it.

[C]

We'll probably start getting stories, posting images from that soon. I'm surprised we have not already. Actually.

[B]

I doubt. I highly doubt that will ever happen. Ever happen. What's happening in the news?

[C]

Anything else? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Stuff's moving, moving and shaking. Congress is at work. The House Appropriations bill moved out of committee this week, and that is good news. The. It's really good news. On June 3, it did. The best news is because it's so much better than the president's budget. You know, the president's budget came out, and we were like, it was terrible, terrible. And so we've been having to listen to all these hearings and have the heads of the agencies testify about it and Burgam testify. And I mean, it's just. It was bad. I mean, you know, look.

[B]

Well, the biggest news around that budget in Africa was that Trump was closing. I think there's like, 26 embassies to get American visas in Africa. He's shutting all but seven down.

[C]

See, and we're not even hearing things like that. I mean, that's the kind of thing you have to go abroad to, you know, get news coverage on, because Americans don't, you know, you. I do think everybody should read at least the BBC news once or twice a week.

[B]

Oh, excuse me. There's another theme that came out of Africa. We talked about that, too. Like, we were talking about the news. I. I never watch the news. I don't like watching the news. But if I want the news. Like, for instance, I wanted. Because I was flying through Qatar to get to Paris, I was like, all right, I need to know what's happening in the American Iranian war. Like, I need to know. I only went to one place, BBC, because I knew that I was going to get, like, this is what's happening. Unbiased, unbiased. Rights. Here's the news.

[C]

I don't know about that. I don't know that they're totally unbiased. Um, I think there's a little bias against America in there. A little. Some of the stories already. But I do think you get a much more worldview, objective view. Like, this is correct. This is what's going on in these different countries. And they. They report more widely on news coming out of other countries. So, yeah, I mean, you can't. Gosh, you can't just read or read or watch CNN and Fox News. And even if you go to both of those to get. Or MSNBC and Fox News because you're like, oh, I watch both. To get both sides, you're still not. You're still not getting it. Because the media in America is controlled so tightly by the owners who have their own agenda. And I mean. Yeah, so run it out. BBC is a good source, I think. Anyway. Yeah. So interior probes came out way, way better than the president's budget. Things like NACA are 52 million versus know, being reduced by 4/5. Satan tribal Wildlife grants, which provide a lot of funding for work that states are doing at the state level. 75 million. The wild horse and burrow program is 144 million, which is what it basically needs. And, you know, regardless of the situation right now, it needs to be under control, but they also need the resources to get it under control. 8.79 billion for US Forest Service, including fire control, which I think a lot of that had been cut. So the US Fish and Wildlife Service, that's a little bit of bad news. Is cut. They cut about $82 million, a little bit more than $82 million, which is a 5% cut below fiscal year 26. They cut BLM by 59.6 million, which is 4.4%. So, I mean, even though 5%, 4%, that doesn't sound like a lot if you're talking about cutting $82.4 million. I mean, that's money that those national wildlife refuges, those fish hatcheries, those programs so desperately need right now. I mean, like, I will argue until I'm blue in the face that they have got to shore up the Fish and Wildlife Services budget because they just keep cutting it, keep cutting it, keep cutting it. There's nothing left to cut. Like, I. We've got to start getting these members of Congress out into the field to see what's going on out there. I mean, to see the fact that there are no law enforcement, so they're Opening up.

[B]

Go to one of our refuges that has nobody on the ground.

[C]

Nobody on the ground. I mean, right here in Mississippi, we've got nine refuges with one law enforcement officer, one federal officer, for over a hundred thousand acres. There's not, there's not even kind of a way to do that. And so it's just getting worse by the minute. I mean, you know, not to mention the habitat management perspective, which is super bleak. But they just opened up hunting access. And I did a story on this earlier, you know, last week, they just opened up hunting access for, like, more than 95% of previously unopened areas, which is good news. But they've got to have the resources to support it. I mean, you can't open up 95% hunting access of previously closed areas and not provide additional law enforcement officers. One thing I do not like, and this is me personally, and I've seen both sides from all of our different partners. It totally depends on the group you're with, what you feel about this. But with the increased access, they also have opened up many. So right now there's a pretty good mix of refuges that allow ATV and UTV use and those that don't. And it's been kind of up to the refuge managers and that region as to how they allocate and do that. But they just opened up practically all of it to UTV and ATV use. I mean, I've seen firsthand they can't

[B]

still close roads to UTV and ATV use.

[C]

Not there. I don't think there's going to be very many. I mean, there will hopefully still be some. But the whole purpose of this is to open up all these roads that were previously closed because there's been so many. And now, I mean, they're open, they're. They're big. They've been given edicts to, like, open all those closed roads, open up the areas that, like, would, you know, when you go into refuge, a lot of times you'll see, like, the chain and it says, you know, closed area, whatever those are.

[B]

Also, you can still walk in there.

[C]

You can still walk in there. Yes. But, um, you haven't been able to drive your atv. And apparently now they're opening up so much more. So I, I just think it's a huge disturbance to the wildlife. It's a huge disturbance to hunters trying to hunt in the area during season. I mean, they create, like, racetracks through there. And even in the areas that they're not supposed to be, you'll get zoomed by One and the ones that you know and you'll see like three chasing each other. And I mean, it's just, I don't like. And we talk about things that are affecting our wildlife numbers. To me, that's at the very top of the list. And almost every single biologist that I've talked to, 100 agrees.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So, like, I just, I don't like that at all. I don't like it. That's. That's my perspective on that. No, I'd love to hear from people out there what they. I mean, does everybody just want to go zooming their ATVs around with, like, unfettered access?

[B]

Yeah, I don't think so. Like, I. Look, I have no problems with roads being closed. Right. Drive your ATV up to the gate, park it off to the side, and then walk the rest of the way in. That's super easy. Nobody's complaining about that.

[C]

Right, right. By the way, Google number 601-790-0607 if you want to send us some comments. So another thing that has been in the news quite a bit lately, and not because there has been any, like, rule change, but the corner crossing situation.

[B]

So that was done and buried. I thought this was like, done. We are going. We can corner cross. No problems.

[C]

As of right now. The law of the land. Because of the. Wisconsin. Sorry, not Wisconsin, Wyoming.

[B]

So Wyoming is. When this whole corner crossing thing came up, I thought it went through the Wyoming Supreme Court. The Supreme Court said, yep, no problems, it's legal. You can corner cross.

[C]

Yes, yes. In the 10th Circuit. And then the appellants appealed and I mean appellees appealed that decision up to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court did not grant certificate. So as of right now, the highest decision in the land and the definitive law of the 10th Circuit. So those states that are in the 10th Circuit and that would be. Let me see if I can find exactly which states. Basically those. Those northwest ones you can corner cross, period. But all of these other circuits in the United States and other states and lands, it's. People who oppose the corner crossing rule are still trying to find a way around it and saying, well, that's the law over there. That's the law in the 10th Circuit. Oh, okay. It's Wyoming, Colorado, Utah, New Mexico, Kansas and Oklahoma.

[B]

Ah, so that's why people are saying in. You cannot corner cross in Montana.

[C]

Well, so that's how it's come up lately is because in Montana, several of the leaders out there, and it's fwp, Montana, fwp. They have Come out and said, and this is so surprising to me, the director of Fish Wildlife and Parks and some of, some of their. So she said corner crossing, this is. Christy Clark said corner crossing is illegal in Montana. She made that statement in March. And then.

[B]

Which technically it is.

[C]

Well, no, no, it's not technically illegal. I mean, unless they have a law on the books. But still, if you've got federal land. So the law is not, it is not stuff. It is not illegal in Montana. It's not illegal anywhere unless it's right. Now, the highest decision in the whole country that we have is this decision out of the 10th circuit. Other circuits can and probably will and would use that as precedent to make their own decisions. Like, even if it was a lower court. But their lieutenant governor said corner crossing without private permission is illegal because it passes through your private airspace.

[B]

That's correct.

[C]

Which is.

[B]

That's correct.

[C]

It's so dumb to me. That is so dumb to me. So we have all of these cases in America that set up the precedent and that the 10 circuit relied upon in making their decision. So I could walk through them. And, and you know what? Maybe this will be my next talking head to walk through, like why Wisconsin, why they came to the decision they made, why the 10th Circuit did why, and why right now you should feel pretty comfortable corner crossing anywhere in America. But now Montana is apparently trying to make it illegal in their state. So there's two people who have filed a lawsuit there to try to force the courts to definitively rule. And so that's how this has all come up. So there's this new lawsuit in Montana that's moving right now because they are saying, I guess they're confident that they're going to win and it's going to be different. And now look, if we have different circuits deciding different things, then you probably can look for the Supreme Court to make a ruling. Yeah, if it goes by that. Because if we have jurisdictions that have completely different federal law on the books, then it's really confusing for everyone. And they may, they, they may issue a determination to hear a case like that. But that, that Montana case has got to work its way all the way up. And until that happens, then we've got this ruling out of the 10th Circuit that says you, you can, you can corn across because there's all this precedent that says that private landowners cannot block off access to public spaces. You know, you can't pin it in on purpose like things like that.

[B]

So it's so complicated, man.

[C]

It is. It's comp it is complicated and I just, I don't think it should be.

[B]

Even though the 10th Circuit has a geography associated with it, just because of its stature in the rankings, it means that the law then is good for everyone.

[C]

Wait, say that one more time. I'm not trying to.

[B]

Even though the 10th Circuit has a geography abound to it geographically, given the states that you just described, its law when passed means the same to everyone.

[C]

Well, it's. This a very complicated.

[B]

That's why I started saying it's called.

[C]

It is. It is. It's a very complicated concept. But unless there is a case within another jurisdiction saying it's illegal, then.

[B]

Then at the same. At the same level.

[C]

But we also have. So the 10th Circuit relied upon multiple other cases and. And I just pulled them up. So like one of them is Camfield versus United States. They upheld federal authority to stop private landowners from fencing public lands in a way that effectively encloses them, even if the fences technically sat on private land. And that's like the seminal case. It's the backbone for the idea that you cannot use private property rights to functionally monopolize public access. Okay, so they relied on that case. They relied on one called McKay vs. Uinta Development Company and a sheep operator crossed checkerboard lands to reach public grazing. And the court emphasized reasonable passage and they rejected the idea that private owners could bar practical use of adjacent public public lands. Wyoming heavily lean on that case. And then there are. Okay, so in The United States versus Bergen, the 10th Circuit held fences creating an enclosing effect on public lands violated the unlawful enclosures fact. I mean, act. Sorry. So it's just all of these. Okay, so it's okay. So the, the opponents of corner crossing love to rely on this case called Leo Sheep Co. And that's where the Supreme Court rejected the federal government's claim that you automatically have an implied easement to build roads across former railroad lands to reach. So landowner said you don't have a. There's no public right to cross checkerboard private property with a road. And Leo Sheep said, you're right, but it only dealt with building per permanent roads across private land, not momentary corner crossing where you don't touch the surface. So that's a huge difference.

[B]

You just touch the air.

[C]

So that kind of tells you how weak the landowners arguments and their case law is when they're relying on that Leo Sheep case to argue their point. And that dealt with like people trying to lay down, you know, permanent roads across it. So versus just somebody trying to Walk over the checkerboard.

[B]

That's complicated.

[C]

Yeah. So we will follow Montana a little

[B]

bit clearer thanks to that explanation. Thank you.

[C]

But we'll follow the Montana situation. It'll be interesting. I mean, I. There's probably going to be landowners in every circuit that try to block this or file stuff. But, you know, I think they're going to get. I think they're going to be defeated in every circuits. Just me. So we also have, just looking at our time, the Private Land Integrity act was filed and essentially in a nutshell. So this has only been introduced so far in the Senate. Well, I probably need to double check and just make sure it hasn't. But in the House. But I haven't seen or heard that has been in the House. So Bennett, Merkley, Wieden and Heinrich introduced this bill. And do you remember last year when we were going through the budget reconciliation process and Mike Lee kept trying to put in these amendments to make it easier to sell public land and how we would have to. And then it would have to go through the rules process and pass the bird test? Do you remember all that?

[B]

Yep, yep.

[C]

Bird rule.

[B]

Yeah, the bird rule that said that you had to have. It had to have some measurable budget implications.

[C]

Well, the bird rule, yes. So. Yes, it has to. Yeah. Basically. Yeah. So look at you for remembering this. Okay. This legislation would amend the Senate's bird rule. So any provision in a budget reconciliation bill that sells, transfers, or disposes federal public land would be considered extraneous. And so any senator could raise a point of order to strike the provision unless 60 senators waive the bird rule. So this would make it.

[B]

Strengthening it. It's making it. It's strengthening it. Which is cool. I like that.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Now chances of it passing, I don't know, because it's really hard to pass bills that change rules. And this would be changing a rule. So. But it's, it's not one of the, you know, you hear a lot about, like, oh, this side is trying to change the filibuster rules or that side's trying to do that. And in, in most situations, it's the Democratic Party or the Republican Party, whoever is in power at the time, you know, they're trying to change the rules to make sure that they can pass something easier or block it easier or whatever. And so it's, it's usually used as a political party move so that, you know, you hurt the other side. And a lot of times those do not pass because most good lawmakers with integrity that believe in the Constitution, that believe in checks and balances, separation of powers, all that stuff and the political party system know that if they're the ones in power at the time and they change these rules to help them when it flips, they just shot themselves in the foot, you know, because we go back and forth all the time. You know, we flip back and forth between the party that's in control. So this is a separate situation because this is, you know, conservationists and public land advocate members, bipartisan, trying to change the rule.

[B]

Interesting.

[C]

So it is very. It's very interesting to me, at least.

[B]

Well, good stuff, man. I like it. Lots of things happening.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So yeah, if you want to reach out to us, you can reach out to us on the Google number 601790-0607. Text us, let us know what you want to talk about. If you have a question, send it to us. And you can also email us if you want infoiginsfoundation.org I feel like I

[C]

may be about to get a bunch of comments from currently practicing attorneys and legal scholars. Correct? Email my like jurisdictional. But just remember, guys, it's been a long time since I practiced.

[B]

You're recovering.

[C]

I think I got the gist of it. Just of it. Pretty correct.

[B]

Exactly. Well, thank you for that and we'll try and do this again next week since we're in. Ciao. Well, that's it for today. I appreciate you listening. As always, leave a review, share it with your friends, and most importantly, do what's right to convey the truth around hunting.