Russell De La Harpe || The Helix Program #3

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Origins Foundation Podcast – Russell De La Harpe || The Helix Program #3

Date: May 14, 2026
Host: The Origins Foundation
Guest: Russell De La Harpe (Owner, Backcountry Africa)
Theme: The realities, responsibilities, and community impact of hunting operations in Zimbabwe and Zambia, with a focus on sustainability, conservation, and transparent community benefit.

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the intersection of hunting, conservation, and community livelihood in southern Africa through the lens of a working outfitter. Host and guest dig into the intricate, often misunderstood, reality of hunting’s role in supporting local people, resolving human-wildlife conflict, and maintaining wildlife populations in Zimbabwe and Zambia. Russell De La Harpe brings an on-the-ground perspective, discussing contractual obligations, conservation work, and the challenges and opportunities in running Backcountry Africa.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Background on Backcountry Africa and Russell’s Journey

• [03:47] Russell describes his upbringing in Zimbabwe, traveling throughout wild parts of southern Africa with his father (not himself a hunter, but a legendary outdoorsman and manager).
• Backcountry Africa operates hunting safari concessions in both Zimbabwe and Zambia, focusing on conservation-aligned, ethical hunting.
  • Zimbabwe: One large concession (150,000 hectares, two “blocks” called Sangui 1 & 2), entirely community-owned.
  • Zambia: Agreements within both of the country’s primary wildlife ecosystems (the Kafue and the Luangwa), plus involvement in Kariba island wildlife management.

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2. Community-Conservation Model in Zimbabwe’s Sangwe Area

• [06:12, 08:44]
  • The concession is 100% community-owned; 80% of fees go directly to the local rural district council.
  • Area comprises communal land with extensive subsistence farming, lacking infrastructure (no electricity/running water).
  • Main challenges: Heavy human-elephant conflict due to the area’s location between two major parks.
• Community Benefits:
  • Human-wildlife conflict mitigation: Targeting problematic elephants near fields/homes ([09:51]).
    • All meat from hunted animals is donated: “The community actually come themselves and process the elephant... They keep absolutely every shred of the meat, which is very cool.” – Russell ([11:09])
  • Employment: Each guide/outfitter’s job supports an estimated 10 people in rural areas.
• Limitations:
  • Lack of long-term tenure (1-year leases) makes deeper infrastructure commitments risky, despite needs like clinic/school repairs and water/sanitation ([11:34]).

Notable Quote

“Just by employing, you know, eight or ten guys, we're already supporting close to 100 people there.”
— Russell ([10:19])

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3. Concession Structure and Obligations in Zambia

• [12:17, 14:45]
  • Zambia’s wildlife areas (Kafue, Luangwa, Zambezi) are regulated through stringent, often expensive concessions, with hunting companies contractually obligated to pay high annual fees and support community & conservation projects.
  • Example: Chiawa GMA (Game Management Area) – $60,000+ annual concession fee ([14:45]); much higher in major parks.
    • Photographic (non-hunting) camps often occupy the most prime habitats; hunting better covers and maintains the broader ecosystem ([15:24]).
• Contractual Community Benefits: ([18:10])
  • Broken into specific annual payments for:
    • Law enforcement (for scout/anti-poaching)
    • Community infrastructure (clinics, boreholes, repairs)
    • Direct quota fees (25% of tag value directly to the Community Resource Board)
    • Human-wildlife conflict, community relations.

Notable Quote

“Even the obligations... are ensuring that the land, the wildlife land use, is staying what it is.”
— Russell ([16:45])

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4. Financial Realities of Conservation Hunting

• [16:37, 19:36]
  • Myths debunked: High trophy fees (e.g., $150,000 lion hunts) must be weighed against staggering land/concession costs and regulatory fees.
  • “Whether we hunt those two elephant... or not, we are obligated to pay the 25% [of tag value]... That can hurt if you... don't fill the quota.” – Russell ([20:16])
    • This structure can pressure outfitters to fill quotas, but there is an annual review, and operators can reduce quotas sustainably ([21:07]).
• Community/Meat Obligations:
  • At least 50% of all edible meat must be donated; often closer to 85% ([22:45]).
  • Larger infrastructure/community projects are both required and often exceeded by operators.

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5. Anti-Poaching, Law Enforcement, and Science

• [23:48, 24:51]
  • Russell and partners have raised anti-poaching efforts dramatically:
    • In the Kafue concession: 65 scouts and wildlife police officers—funded at $650,000+/year, vastly exceeding minimal contractual obligation ($10k).
    • Even with this, coverage is only estimated at 55-60% due to the scale (~1.3 million acres).
• Innovative Approaches:
  • Data from collared animals has revealed hidden water springs and improved focused anti-poaching ([30:20]).
  • New science: Systematic aging and data collection on all hunted elephants and buffalo, adapting age/ivory charts to local ecology for more sustainable management ([32:08]).
  • Wildlife relocation efforts on Kariba islands have stocked depleted mainland areas (over 600 animals moved; thriving biodiversity rebounds documented) ([26:32, 28:18]).

Notable Quotes

“Even with that input, we probably still only covering 55 to 60% of it…”
— Russell ([25:36])

“The poachers know about those places, we just… don’t. So I think having that info from those collared animals just made a world of difference.”
— Russell ([30:52])

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6. Community and Ecological Outcomes

• Additional community/infrastructure successes:
  • Clinic refurbishments completed with the Origins Foundation’s support ([21:45]).
  • Local employment, skills transfer, and meat donations directly address community needs.
• Kariba islands:
  • Privately managed wildlife populations have enabled restocking of heavily depleted regions and contributed to ecosystem restoration (both herbivore density and predators like crocs and hippos) ([28:18, 29:34]).
• Scientific Collaboration:
  • Sharing data, partnering with veterinarians to improve management and transparency.
  • Plans to photo-catalog and age each buffalo and elephant, creating a valuable dataset for long-term management ([35:26]).

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7. Reflections and Broader Impacts

• Russell and the host repeatedly emphasize that the aim is not just commercial profit but sustaining wilderness for people and wildlife.
• The system is imperfect, and improvements are needed—especially around longer-term concession security and government/community transparency—but sustainable-use hunting continues to be a bulwark against land conversion, poaching, and biodiversity loss.

Notable Quote

“The primary goal is to keep the wildlife secured, to make sure that the wildlife is sustained and to potentially increase that wildlife over time.”
— Host ([36:05])

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• Snakes and Ladders Analogy:
  “It's like snakes and ladders. You guys are climbing the ladder and then somebody does something stupid and you just slide.”
  — Russell ([01:36])

• On Local Employment:
  “Just by employing, you know, eight or ten guys, we're already supporting close to 100 people...”
  — Russell ([10:19])

• Economic Realities:
  “No, the important point, they're not allowed to have livestock, they're not allowed to harvest timber.”
  — Russell ([17:42])

• On Science-Driven Conservation:
  “Having that information just made a huge difference... in an area of over a million acres, even with 65 scouts, your coverage is tiny. It has to be focused, has to be smart coverage.”
  — Russell ([31:31])

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Important Timestamps

• 00:30–03:06 – Introduction, Russell’s background, structure of Backcountry Africa
• 06:07–11:26 – Sangwe (Zimbabwe): Community ownership, benefits, elephant conflict
• 12:08–17:31 – Zambian Concessions: Obligations, costs, community payments
• 21:34–22:49 – Community infrastructure, meat provision systems
• 23:48–25:34 – Anti-poaching: Staffing, funding, challenges
• 26:32–29:34 – Kariba islands: Wildlife relocation projects
• 30:20–33:54 – Science projects: Collar data, aging/buffalo & elephant protocols
• 36:05–36:32 – Final reflections: Broader impact, closing notes

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Conclusion

Russell De La Harpe offers rare, candid insight into the operational, ethical, and conservation realities of professional hunting operations today. Through detailed discussions of contracts, science, and hands-on community work, this episode busts myths about trophy hunting, reveals its vital role in rural southern Africa, and underscores the need for long-term investment and data-driven stewardship.

In Russell’s words:
“You're most welcome.” ([36:30])

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For more, listen to the full episode or explore The Origins Foundation’s Helix Program for ongoing conversations about sustainable hunting and conservation in Africa.

Transcript

[Narrator/Advertiser]

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[Interviewer/Host]

Russell De La Harp is the owner of Backcountry Africa, an outfit and operator that's part of our Helix program. He operates in Zimbabwe and Zambia. And this series, this podcast series is tied to our Helix program so that you as an individual, a non hunting public member or a hunter can understand what these operators and outfitters are doing for people, wildlife and communities in the places that they operate. So this is a very short, sharp podcast of 30 minutes so you can understand what Russell is doing for people, for wildlife and communities in Zimbabwe and Zambia and the areas that he hunts. So enjoy. So five years ago, there was a reason why I started this movement. And the truth then is the truth now that we need to champion our narrative. We need to champion the truth around what we do and who we are. There's a sweet spot with a gun, you know, too heavy and it's a burden to walk with. Too light and you whipping it. Why is the project so important to the hunting community? It's, it's a. I think it's not

[Russell De La Harp]

only important, I think it's.

[Interviewer/Host]

I think it's vital.

[Russell De La Harp]

I think it's, it's just in time. It's like snakes and ladders. You guys are climbing the ladder and then somebody does something stupid and you just slide.

[Interviewer/Host]

That is such an amazing analogy. Snakes and ladders.

[Russell De La Harp]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

You know, ivory, in my opinion, was the plastic of its age.

[Russell De La Harp]

Okay.

[Interviewer/Host]

The expenses are going up.

[Russell De La Harp]

It goes a long way with families.

[Interviewer/Host]

We are families that do need it. Let me close this door because I have a little wiener dog. What are you laughing because I said wiener?

[Russell De La Harp]

I'm really glad you finished the sentence out.

[Interviewer/Host]

I'm sorry, the first half.

[Russell De La Harp]

What are we doing here today?

[Interviewer/Host]

You're telling the whole world. Stop clicking that pen.

[Russell De La Harp]

Sorry.

[Interviewer/Host]

Russell De La Harp coming to us out of it seems like you're obviously in a place that has technology in Zambia right now.

[Russell De La Harp]

Starlink Power.

[Interviewer/Host]

Starlink. Amazing. Look at that. Luxuries. Luxuries.

[Russell De La Harp]

Fans. All the work.

[Interviewer/Host]

Air conditioning. No, no air conditioning.

[Russell De La Harp]

I need a bedroom.

[Interviewer/Host]

Well, dude, welcome back to the. To the origins foundation podcast. I know we've had you on. I don't know. Have you ever been on? I don't think you have. Oh, you have been. You've been on a roundup before for sure. Back in the day.

[Russell De La Harp]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

But I don't think we physically have had you on to talk about all the good things that you do.

[Russell De La Harp]

Maybe not. No, I don't think.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah. So this podcast series is tied to obviously our Helix program. Our Helix program is a way for outfitters and operators to talk about the things that they do beyond hunting, the things that come as a result of people hunting with you. And obviously you are operating in some amazing landscapes in Zambia. You also operate in Zimbabwe, right?

[Russell De La Harp]

Correct. Yeah, correct.

[Interviewer/Host]

So why don't you tell people just a little bit about you and backcountry Africa, because that is the, the outfit that you run in Zambia. And then what we want to do is just get into some nitty gritty details of some of the things that happen as a result of hunting with you.

[Russell De La Harp]

Sure, Sounds good. So, quick, quick background. Born in Brayland, Zimbabwe, was very, very fortunate to grow up in a. In a wilderness area that my father was the kind of general manager of and weirdly enough, not actually a hunter

[Interviewer/Host]

but a legend to himself. Legend to himself who, who he loves to explore conversations in the hunting space. Though he's not a hunter himself, which is amazing.

[Russell De La Harp]

Exactly. Yeah, exactly. So not, not a hunter at all. You know, he's a, he's an outdoorsman but not a hunter. So he's, you know, into his fishing and he does do a little bit of bird hunting from time to time. But he's by no means a big game hunter but for fully appreciates the importance of the model and, and etc. Etc. So yeah, grew up around him. I was very fortunate to travel to a lot of, you know, wild places, mainly in Zimbabwe, but also in Botswana, Mozambique, etc. And yeah, just got the bug from an early age and there wasn't much hope of me doing anything else, to be honest, even though I tried tertiary education and all the. All those things. Yeah. So started our outfit in 2019. We started with my partner Zane and basically so we run out now. We run outfits in two countries, primarily Zimbabwe and Zambia. Zane runs the Zimbabwe inside, I run the Zambian side. We do, do we take our, you know, much valued clients to other countries from time to time, but we don't miss, we don't operate in those countries. I'm not our concessions or we don't have Any, you know, formal agreements that we basically just pick and choose some nice safaris to go on. We. We get to go and have fun as well. But yeah, many. Zimbabwe and Zambia. Zimbabwe, we have one concession of our own, which is down in the southeastern corner between Gonrajour national park on the Zimbabwean side and Kruger national park on the South African side. So we're right down there at a free. Very famous place.

[Interviewer/Host]

How big is that area?

[Russell De La Harp]

It's about 150,000 hectares.

[Interviewer/Host]

150,000 hectares, so about 300,000 acres. What's it called?

[Russell De La Harp]

It's called Sangui. And we have. But. But what it is is it's two blocks. So that's two blocks combined. So that's Sangui 1 and Sangui 2. That's the official name. So we have. Currently we have both blocks.

[Interviewer/Host]

And tell me about those blocks. Are they. There's community in those blocks?

[Russell De La Harp]

Yeah, they are. They are communal areas, so they are 100% community owned. I think it's probably about 80% of the proceeds directly to the rural district council in that area. There's a little bit of funding that has to go to government for the tags and things like that. But other than that, we basically lease the area and the hunting directly from the community.

[Interviewer/Host]

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[Russell De La Harp]

Good luck or the council.

[Interviewer/Host]

And 80% of that money goes to the community.

[Russell De La Harp]

To the. Yes, to the council, to the rural

[Interviewer/Host]

district council of our.

[Russell De La Harp]

Out of our lease fees and stuff like that. Yeah, and the fees we pay per animal etc. Etc. So we took over that two years ago. It was kind of up for grabs because a previous operator had, hadn't played his, hadn't paid his bills and stuff. So we, we ended up taking over there. And it has been. It's a community area so there's a lot of people in it. There's a lot of subsistence farming. You know, it's not. There's no major developments. It's all just subsistence living, you know, subsistence agriculture. There's no electricity, no running water, none of that sort of stuff. So there's people relying fully on their crops and with a high, with being wedged between Gonrejon and Kruger, there's a very high population of elephant. So elephant hunting is the primary function there. And then we do also hunt quite a few buffalo every year. But that's pretty. There isn't much other than elephant and buffalo.

[Interviewer/Host]

Can you tell me some of the things that you do for the community in Sangwe specifically?

[Russell De La Harp]

So at the moment, because we've only been given a very short term tenure there, we financially, it's a very difficult thing to commit to, you know, big community projects and, and things like that. Because we're basically only getting the area one year at a time which is unfortunately quite frustrating. The main, the main benefit we we're doing there now is basically human wildlife conflict mitigation. So by, by virtue of the fact of us hunting there, we choose, we really try our best to hunt the elephant that we hunt in close proximity to fields and housing Establishments and stuff like that. Especially like this time of year in the early season, this is when it's a really big problem and guys are losing their whole crops in one night to elephants. So we try and do most of our hunting in those, in those kind of parts of the area. We have employed people from the community which obviously has a, has a big effect, you know, with a. I think in rural parts of Zimbabwe and Zambia they reckon that every employed person supports at least 10 people. So just by employing, you know, eight or 10 guys, we're already supporting close to 100 people there we are. So 100% of the meat is donated. 100%. Other than maybe the odd buffalo backstrap that gets kept for camp or something, it all gets donated. So once we shoot an elephant, the community actually come themselves and come and process the elephant wherever we, wherever it happens to go down. And they keep absolutely every shred of the, every shirt of the media, which is very cool.

[Interviewer/Host]

If you had your druthers, if you got a 5 year, 10 year lease in Sangwe.

[Russell De La Harp]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

Are there things that you've heard from the community that they need?

[Russell De La Harp]

Absolutely. I mean in rural parts there's always certain things that a lot of it can be sometimes as existing facilities that need renovation. You know, there'll be say a clinic that's got a roof, that's got holes in it, for example, or a school that doesn't have running water or something along those lines or solar power, these kind of things. So if we were to get a long term lease there, those are definitely things that we would, that we would do as soon as possible. Yeah, for sure. And the requirements is there's always a lot of that stuff that needs to be done. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

So moving into Zambia, you obviously have a couple of areas in Zambia that you have worked in. What are those areas?

[Russell De La Harp]

So we're very fortunate to basically have a agreement of sorts in one of each of the primary hunting areas in Zambia. So the Zambia is the two main areas of the Kafui and the Luangwa. Those are the two primary ecosystems. Not just from a hunting point of view, but photographic tourism. They're basically the two keystone landscapes of in Zambia. And then there's also the Zambezi ecosystem which is in essence connected to the Luango, but in essence a slightly different system. So this year we'll be hunting in Chiawa GMA or just Chiawa Game Management Area which has been closed for 10 years, which is quite interesting. There was an effort to turn it into a photographic area 10 years ago. And it has sent it in wood boy. Because the community are still facing immense human wildlife conflict there, mainly from buffalo and elephant and in a limited sense lion. So the community, and the community didn't see the benefits from the photographic tourism as they had hoped. Unfortunately, the structures from a legal point of view in Zambia don't really provide for photographic camps and hunting areas contributing much. Whereas there's a very regulated and set protocols for hunting companies to contribute just by virtue of the concession agreement. Not even, not even out of their own goodwill or philanthropic, you know, methods. It's basically, it's contractual. You can't get away from it. And that's a very common misconception as a lot of these, A lot of the, a lot of sort of onlookers especially to Zambia would say that the hunting companies here maybe don't do as much over and over and above what they should. However, what, what, what is, what's a very common misconception is it actually is contractually in there in many cases and the funding is often provided by the hunting companies to the correct people to do it. And that's where the stumbling block is. So you know, Zambia has got huge concession fees in relation to all other countries. All of our hunting area contracts have got obligations built into them to the community that you simply cannot get away from it. And those obligations are all paid every year by, by the hunting companies.

[Interviewer/Host]

So it's talk through some of those obligations that you are in your, in your contract. For instance, like you just got this GMA for instance. What is the contractual obligations in that, in that news that you've done?

[Russell De La Harp]

Literally there's a, there's a concession fee which is paid to, to government in which government keep most of it. I'm not 100% sure of the breakdown, but they do keep most of that. So even just now Chiawa concession, it's north of $60,000 a year just to rep the area. And there's. I think there's seven or eight photographic camps in there that don't pay a penny to be there. So there's a good example.

[Interviewer/Host]

So is it staying photographic now that it turns over to hunting?

[Russell De La Harp]

Is it going to use the camps will still be there, yes, but not

[Interviewer/Host]

being used as photographics.

[Russell De La Harp]

But that while the more that they're just to go and hunt, they're not because the benefit from it. Yeah, obviously. And also the other thing with the photographic camps is they, they, their presence they utilize and they have presence in a very small percentage of the area because they're in the prime habitat on the river and go for a couple of hours drive every morning and kind of they cover such a tiny percentage area, whereas the hunting will cover when cover the whole thing, but it'll cover a lot more of it. So there's that big concession fee every year. Listen, some areas in Zambia, some of the big Luangwe areas are north of $300,000 a year in concession fees. With a quota value of not actually much more than that. So the conception that hunting companies are making an absolute killing by selling, you know, $150,000 line hunts. Well, if you only have one line on quota, which is the rule in Zambia, every area only has one line on quota. There's this. There is some provisions for adding a second one mid season if you tick a lot of boxes. But it's not common for that to happen. So in essence, most areas about one line in quota every year, so. Or any areas that have line only have one. There's no areas in Zambia that have more than.

[Interviewer/Host]

So the idea that you're making profit hand over fist in Zambia

[Russell De La Harp]

for sure. I mean a lot of the reality is most people, especially most people that are doing it well, are doing it because they have a passion for it and, and you know, want to look after these places and what the, what these high concession fees and even the obligations which I'll get into shortly do. They are ensuring that the land, the wildlife land uses is staying what it is. So even, even in the case of say a less than, maybe in the case of a hunting company that isn't well funded or a hunting company that doesn't have the means to, you know, employ extra scouts and do all the big community projects and etc. Etc. Etc. Even in that case, they are still doing a hell of a lot for the conservation of the area just by virtue of the agreement that they're in an amount of money that they're paying

[Interviewer/Host]

for it and that the GMA that you just got. Yeah, yeah, the GMA that you just got. Are they allowed to have livestock, cattle in the gma?

[Russell De La Harp]

No, no, the important point, they're not allowed to have livestock, they're not allowed to harvest timber. Mining is a bit of a tricky one. There's your mining is kind of a bit up in the air. Sometimes concessions are given, sometimes they aren't. The mining is a bit of a tough one. But in terms of, you know, subsistence agriculture, encroachment into the GMAs, while it happens, is at least in theory illegal because of the structure of the hunting area.

[Interviewer/Host]

So tell me about those obligations.

[Russell De La Harp]

So the obligations are basically agreed upon at the beginning of a concession agreement which is usually 7 to 10 years depending on the area and what it is. It's an annual payment to the local CRBs which stands for community resource board. And it's broken into different factions. There's a law enforcement obligation which is supposedly for employing scouts, et cetera, et cetera. There's a community obligation which is for boreholes, infrastructure, etc. Then there's infrastructure obligation which is supposed to be for infrastructure. Specifically within the GMA there's a human wildlife component, human wildlife contract component, there's a community relations component. And then a recent one which has come in is that all the kahunting companies in Zambia on the new agreements have to pay 25% of the value of their quota directly to the community resource board. So that value is calculated on the tag fees payable to government tag fees, right? Yeah, the government tag fees. You know, on your quota, let's say for example you have, let's say your quota is only obviously, which it's not. But for simple terms, let's say Your quota is 10 Buffalo and that's it.

[Interviewer/Host]

Okay?

[Russell De La Harp]

Okay. A buffalo tag is about $2,000, so you're in for $20,000. So 25% of that $5,000 payable directly

[Interviewer/Host]

to the community, above, beyond, above and

[Russell De La Harp]

beyond what you're paying above and beyond everything else, above and beyond your concession fees, above and beyond all the community obligations and above and beyond buying that we have. So we have to buy the tags. Basically there's a 25% premium on the tags and it's not. And it's not whether you buy the tags or not. That's one component of it. So if we have. So in other words, in the new, in the Zambezi area, Te awa we have duo de fonto and quota. And the elephant tags are expensive. They're I think $10,000 a pop. So whether we hunt those two elephant and whether we sell the safaris or

[Interviewer/Host]

not, you are obligated to put 20

[Russell De La Harp]

to pay the 25% whether we buy the tags or not, whether we do the hunt or not. So that one, that one is that one. That, that one can hurt if you. Which is. I'm not. It's definitely not an ideal arrangement because it may also force could guys to hunt their full quotas when maybe they shouldn't be. That's, that's the downside of it. But it also will mean that quotas will be set fairly. It also it should help in the long run for guys to set fair quotas. You know, if they, if two elephants yet then should maybe only be doing one. Right, right. Yeah. So just again like you add that all up.

[Interviewer/Host]

Do you have, do you have an opportunity. Let's just talk through that scenario. Do you have an opportunity to say, well look man, 2 is too much or 10 is too much. Hey government, can we. We would like only eight next year.

[Russell De La Harp]

Absolutely we do. Yeah. So we have a, we have an annual quota setting meeting every year or with the. Which is done in conjunction with us as the operator, the Community Resource Board and DNVW which is Department of National Parks and Wildlife. So we have an annual quota setting meeting there where we look at the quota versus the offtake and then what next year's quota is going to be. Yeah, so we do have the opportunity there to do that for sure.

[Interviewer/Host]

Obligations like schools and clinics and meet. Is that baked into the contracts too? Or is that something that you see as an added opportunity?

[Russell De La Harp]

It's in two fold. So part of the obligations is a community infrastructure obligation which we, which and which is quite extensive. I think it's, it's. I think in one of our areas it's about $20,000 a year. So you know, in Africa you can do quite a lot with $20,000. Of course a lot of outfitters go well above and beyond that and you know, do other projects and stuff like we've done, we've done, we've obviously done one of the clinics with you which was much appreciated. And then we've also done another one now in the Kafui area. We've also done a clinic refurb where we basically gutted the whole thing, took the roof off, got the water lines back in. I mean it's basically a new building. So yeah, there is a lot of that going on over and above the obligations, but there is an element of it built in and the meat side of things, it's in all of our contracts that we have to donate at the very least 50% of edible meat that is hunted. Last year we donated more than 85% of edible meat. In terms of the.

[Interviewer/Host]

In Zambia you can sell game meat, right?

[Russell De La Harp]

You can, you can. However, it's not common practice to be done from a GMA through a hunting outfit. Because meat sales is from private estates. 99% of meat sales is from private estates. The selling of meat in a, from a game management area is a little bit of a gray area. Think. I think it is actually legally possible because once you have that animal, you are actually the owner of that animal. The horns, the skull, the skin and the meat. However, 99,9% of cases, all that meat is donated. Gotcha. And the small percentage that's not donated is usually used for, you know, either in camp for, you know, cooking for guests and stuff like that. And obviously a small element of it is used for beta as well.

[Interviewer/Host]

So you managed, you mentioned already that you guys have done two clinic projects, one with us, which is the accommodations around a clinic. You built another clinic, refurbed, another clinic. In terms of anti poaching, are you guys putting people on the ground from an anti poaching perspective?

[Russell De La Harp]

Yes. So in the Zambezi area, our partners there and us have through the hunting funding and actually through the. It's not even through the money we receive from hunting, it's the money we hope to receive from hunting because we haven't actually started hunting yet. But we put two scout teams, permanently employed, armed, uniformed, rationed, etc, in the Chiawa Gmail and then in the Kafui with our partners there. We have gone well over and above the requirement there in that area. Now we have 50 community scouts and 15 WPOs, which are wildlife police officers, which is basically a government scout. So that's 65, you said.

[Interviewer/Host]

We went well above, well above the requirement. What was the requirement?

[Russell De La Harp]

So their requirement is to pay the law enforcement obligation and in which case the CRB would then do the anti poaching. That's how contractually, that's how it's set up. But the law enforcement obligation is like $10,000.

[Interviewer/Host]

So what do you think you're spending

[Russell De La Harp]

annually on law enforcement in that area? And we're very fortunate to have partners there that are helping us do it, that are passionate about conservation and stuff. It's well north of $650,000

[Interviewer/Host]

a year.

[Russell De La Harp]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

So instead of giving 10, you're obligated to do 10. They're doing 650.

[Russell De La Harp]

Yeah. At least, if not more. That's just a bit of a thumb suck figure, but it's at least that. Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

How big is this area?

[Russell De La Harp]

It's 683,000 hectares, so 1.3 million acres. Wow. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

Huge.

[Russell De La Harp]

It's a beast. Yeah. And even with that input, we probably still only covering 55 to 60% of it with that input.

[Interviewer/Host]

Sounds like we need to have a conversation about the drone AI field that we're about to dive head into, my friend.

[Russell De La Harp]

I would love to. Unfortunately, in that area there's probably no hope. We are slap Bang in the middle of a prohibited airspace or even even flying because of an Air Force base that's nearby. So we probably have. Even getting clearance to buy our guests in Air Force safaris is an absolute headstand. So. Wow, wow, wow. Getting them to operate a drone would probably be a non.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You also have some islands that we've done some previous project work on some documentaries in Kariba. Tell me a little bit about that because I know you've done some wildlife relocation work out of those islands, right?

[Russell De La Harp]

Yeah, so. So those islands are a little bit different to the other hunting areas. Other hunting areas. We all lease or at least are involved in the lease. You know, in some cases there's a. Another company that has the lease, but we run all the safaris through there, that, that sort of arrangement. Whereas on the islands here we, we own the islands. Artrack, we have types on them, have had since the early 80s or mid-80s. And so, yeah, they were at the beginning, you know, back then they were islands with virtually nothing on it. They had some bushbuck and some kudu and that was about it. And then over the years they were. The islands were restocked and they just got to a point where, because they don't have any predators, natural predators, other than crocodiles there, you know, there's no lion or leopard on the islands. They got to a point where they were really, really overpopulated and with a full spectrum of species, eland, waterbuck, wildebeest, zebra. I mean, that turned into thriving ecosystems from a wildlife point of view. And then we got to the point where we're now able to restock other areas from it. So we've now taken on, you know, this property upriver from us, which is where we did the clinic and that place was decimated again. All that was left there was basically kudu and impala. We've now put water back there, we've put pushbuck back there this year, hopefully we'll take waterbuck and eland back there. And all of that is coming from what we've done on islands, from the population growth that's. That's happened on islands. And of course there's been other areas in Zambia that have purchased wildlife from us for restocking. All over the country, Eland zebra could do all sorts of things.

[Interviewer/Host]

How many animals do you think you've moved?

[Russell De La Harp]

At least 500. Probably 500 head of game, at least. We've only done, obviously, as you remember, logistically, even just getting a human on the island as a mission Let alone a game capture container, whatever. So we usually, every couple years we do and that we only started doing it probably six or seven years ago, started doing proper captures on there. But when we do it, we do it big because of how difficult it is to get equipment out there and people and et cetera, et cetera. So yeah, we've done three big captures and we've done at least 200 animals per capture. So we probably even over 600 animals that we've moved off. Yeah. And we even had to do a cull last year of impala rams because even by, you know, we can't, you can't sell, you can't move males of any species in big volumes. It's just not feasible. They fight, they kill each other in the trucks, et cetera. So you can only do it in one compartment at a time. So sending a truck 700km with six impala rounds in it is valueless, is, you know, just doesn't make financial sense. So we've even done, we even had to do a cull last year and during one of the captures where we culled, I think 60 impala rounds, 50, 60 impala rams. And it doesn't, it hasn't even made a difference if we go out there anyhow. You still see herds of 30, 40 of the fins around every rock. So there's a lot of amicop there. Very high density of game. Yeah. Which is very cool. And with that, and with that, even other animals like the crocodile population has really bounced back out there. The hippo population has done incredibly well. I mean, 10, 15 years ago we were. There was one small pod of hippo there. Now on our last count there was more than 60 hippo around the islands and little pods and stuff, which again, 60 hippo doesn't sound like a lot, but when you've come from four or five, it's a big deal. Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

Russell, can you think of anything else that you guys have done, science projects that you might have been involved with or other community work that has come as a result of what you guys do from a hunting perspective?

[Russell De La Harp]

There's two things more ecology, sort of science based stuff that we a. Have done and are. There's a couple new things that we are starting this year which is exciting. So we have been involved in quite a few coloring initiatives of lion, elephant and even things like waterbuck and things like that which have been very interesting. They haven't given, you know, they haven't been groundbreaking studies. But what they have done is they have shown us in our areas they have taught us about our areas hugely. So for example, we found, just from the collared lion, we probably found four or five different season or permanent springs and very remote places that we had no idea were there, which we wouldn't because we could see the color data kept going back to the same place and obviously we said, well, we need to check this place out and find permanent water we didn't know about. And that, that knowledge from an anti poaching perspective is massive like those. And because the poachers know about those places, we just, we don't. So I think having that info from those colored animals just made a, made a world of difference. It showed us, it really showed us where we need to focus because in an area of over a million acres, even, even with 65 Scots, you're not having, is, your coverage is tiny. So it has to be focused, has to be smart coverage, you know, you have to be targeted where you put people and stuff. And having that information just made a huge difference. We are doing a lion and leopard survey this year in one of the areas to really assess our line of leopard population and the growth that it's had because there was a survey done, survey done by an NGO who, I won't mention their name, a couple of years ago in 2023 and they'd refused to give anyone the feedback from the survey. So we still don't know, we don't have, we don't even have a baseline to work with because a cat conservation organization refused to give the leaseholders of the area any information which I found quite strange. I asked him. Yeah, my gut feel is maybe that it was, the news was too good to publish or to share anyway, we noticed why they didn't, wouldn't share it with us, but they wouldn't. So we're going to do our own one then switch is better. We're doing that this year, which will be really interesting. Unfortunately we don't have a baseline to work with. So it's going to be a baseline. It would have been really cool if we had a baseline from three or four years ago because we just, through you know, general observation and stuff like that, we know that the leopard, especially the leopard population is bouncing back really fast and the lion population was doing exceedingly well. So that's really cool. And then this year we are in conjunction with one of our buddies who's a wildlife vet in all of our hunting areas and we are hopefully going to do it in a few of the other areas as well. Try and get other guys on board to do it. We are going to be aging and collecting data on all the elephant and buffalo hunted in the areas. So using the aging protocol from the Kruger APNR thing, we're basically using that sort of protocol and we're going to be aiding every elephant and every buffalo that we hunt in the areas. For now it's just a data collection thing, but it will hopefully, you know, in future. Hopefully we can, you know, after a couple seasons start to pick up trains or you know, outstanding issues. If issues pop up, we can see where, you know, if that data shows anything. And there's also some element of helpful professional hunters there because of the elephant thing we want to keep. We want to start picking up the data on how the elephant's age affects their tusk weight and things like that. So a, to hunt more, you know, more responsive, more responsibly and hunt better elephant, but also help the ph make judgment calls on ivory and stuff like that. Because Zambia has an ivory minimum. So we feel that there's a lot of value being left on the table because professional hunters are not confident enough to make a close ivory call, which is fair enough. I mean, I'm in the same boat. But if we can start collecting data on it specific to xambian because there's lots of tusk length and weight charts from Botswana, from Zimbabwe, but the elephant are different everywhere. So we want to start looking at the Zambian elephant and we're driving that and we've been in all our areas and hopefully a few guys will jump on the bandwagon as well too.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah.

[Russell De La Harp]

What a 3 foot, what 3ft of ivory Zambia weighs if it's 15 at the lip, for example. Yeah. I think that's critical. Data that can do is hopefully in the future is let guys that maybe don't have as many elephant or you know, as older elephant or etc, still make calls and still hunt elephant in the areas where they would benefit from it, you know, financially, their communities would benefit from it from a meat perspective, etc. We feel like there's a lot of people that could be hunting elephant in Zambia that aren't doing it.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah, yeah, no. I would also recommend putting maybe putting some photos with that data set because again, somebody is like, wow, is this a 40 year old elephant or a 49 year old elephant based on laws? And the only way you can get to laws is the jaw, right? Yeah, man. This is what this elephant looked like.

[Russell De La Harp]

Each form we've built has got photos in it as well. Yeah. So really When a buffalo will have frontal photos, side on photos, photos from the top, so that even in a field with buffalo you can even hopefully start to get to the point where you can even age, roughly age buffalo before you, before you hunt that. Yeah, yeah. Which will be very cool. We feel like Zambia has got the potential to have as good a buffalo hunting as anywhere else in the world. You know, as good as the Niasa, as good as Okavango Delta, etc. But we need to make sure the. And it. I think it does have comparable buffalo hunting with the countries where we need to keep it like that. Yeah, we don't want to show you. We don't want to shoot ourselves in the foot, literally. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

Well, Russell, thank you, dude. I appreciate you your brain dumping very quickly. Sort of the kinds of things that come as a result of hunting with you and the impact, benefits and consequences to people and communities and wildlife. And obviously in these areas, the primary goal is to keep the wildlife secured, to make sure that the wildlife is sustained and to potentially increase that wildlife over time.

[Russell De La Harp]

For sure. You're most welcome.

[Interviewer/Host]

Thanks, dude. Till the next time. Well, that's it for today. I appreciate you listening. As always, leave a review, share it with your friends and most importantly, do what's right to convey the truth around hunting.