A Trip to Nike's Headquarters, Changes in College Sports and ESPN's 'Vibe Check'

Summary

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Bloomberg Business of Sports

Episode: "A Trip to Nike's Headquarters, Changes in College Sports and ESPN's 'Vibe Check'"

Date: October 31, 2025
Hosts: Michael Barr, Vanessa Perdomo, Damian Sassauer

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Overview

This episode of Bloomberg Business of Sports dives deep into three pivotal areas shaping the modern sports industry:

1. Nike’s Comeback and Innovation:
   Senior reporter Kim Basine recounts his behind-the-scenes visit to Nike's headquarters, detailing the brand’s strategies for revival, innovation in sportswear, and changes in retail and executive leadership.

2. The ESPN ‘Vibe Check’ Show:
   A robust conversation with Vibe Check hosts Elle Duncan, Chiney Ogwumike, and Ari Chambers highlights the rise of women’s sports, the evolution of media platforms, and the state and future of the WNBA.

3. College Sports at a Crossroads:
   Amy Perko, CEO of the Knight Commission on Intercollegiate Athletics, joins to discuss a new survey on how college sports leaders view NIL compensation, Olympic sports funding, transfer rules, and the need for federal oversight.

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1. Nike’s Headquarters: Innovation and Reorganization

Guest: Kim Basine, Bloomberg News Senior Reporter
Timestamps: 02:46–15:23

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Nike’s Brand Revival

• Resurgence in Performance:
  Nike is regaining market share, especially in running shoes, achieving 20% growth after losing ground to upstarts (03:24).

  “They’re starting to come up with those big product breakthroughs that they used to be so well known for... to make athletes better.” — Kim Basine [03:24]

• Cultural Cool Factor:
  Nike is working to regain its status among younger consumers while leveraging performance innovation.

  "If you develop something that makes someone win a game or a race... it creates this aura around the brand." — Kim Basine [04:31]

Organizational Rehaul

• Sport-Offense Model:
  /Instead of segmenting by gender or product type, Nike’s teams are now built around specific sports (e.g., basketball, running). This move aims to unify product, marketing, and design for each sport.

  “He reorganized his teams around sports instead of men's and women's... That way they can develop products and it's in sync with marketing...” — Kim Basine [05:28]

• Leadership Changes:
  New CEO Elliot Hill replaced most direct reports, implemented layoffs, and has initiated a complete C-suite overhaul to drive the turnaround (12:33–13:34).

On the Cutting Edge: Product Innovations

• Inflatable Jacket:
  Scheduled for a debut at the Milan Winter Olympics, the jacket uses air insulation to keep wearers warm (05:56–06:23).

• “Massaging” Shoe:
  A calming, pressure-point shoe designed for pre/post-competition relaxation (06:24–06:43).

• Aerofit Fabric:
  Promises to regulate body heat in soccer jerseys (06:55–07:07).

• Project Amplify (“E-bike for your Feet”):
  A prototype shoe that boosts your stride, offering significant assistance, though not legal for competition.

  “You put the shoe on... whenever you take a step, it boosts you forward... running next to someone who’s not wearing these things is like panting, and you’re like, I’m good.” — Kim Basine [07:54]

Retail Strategy & Challenges

• Return to Store Shelves:
  Nike is regaining presence in specialty running stores but shares space with strong competitors (09:54–10:46).

• Branded Store Concepts:
  Nike and retailers like Dick’s Sporting Goods are moving toward branded “mini-stores” within larger stores, emphasizing experiential shopping (11:15–12:33).

Financial Realities

• Tariff Pressures:
  CEO Elliot Hill signaled mounting tariff-driven costs—rising from $1B to $1.5B—forcing Nike to use “surgical price increases” while holding the line on core products (14:28–15:23).

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2. ESPN’s ‘Vibe Check’ and the State of Women’s Sports

Guests: Elle Duncan, Chiney Ogwumike, Ari Chambers
Host/Interviewer: Jason Kelly
Timestamps: 19:17–41:48

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The Birth and Ethos of 'Vibe Check'

• Origins & Authenticity:
  Conceived as a relaxed, real, women-led space, Vibe Check focuses on both women’s and men’s sports—always through a unique, often personal, POV.

  “The ability to showcase all of this incredible women talent at ESPN was probably the biggest force multiplier of wanting to do this show.” — Elle Duncan [20:52]

• Inclusive, Living Room Vibe:
  Designed as a destination for fans and fellow ESPN talent; delivers honesty, humor, and community.

  “The show is shorter than most, and so we want to give it the best punch ever... Even beyond that, us getting to know us, it’s a bigger space for you to know us as people.” — Elle Duncan [23:46]

Disruption in Sports Media

• Streaming on Disney+:
  Vibe Check is one of the few ESPN studio shows available directly on Disney+, merging the digital/linear TV divide (25:20).

• A Draw for Women at ESPN:
  The show serves as an internal hub for ESPN women—becoming both a platform and a cultural touchstone (26:22).

The Rise and Business of Women’s Sports

• New Opportunities and Confidence:
  Players and teams (e.g., Angel City FC, Golden State Valkyries) are charting new paths and generating higher valuations, with ownership and investment driving the future.

  “Players have always been the best in its kind... But now seeing the investment, that’s been the biggest disruptor in the best way. People are starting to see that you can get in on something right now that is huge for years to come. It’s a generational asset.” — Chiney Ogwumike [27:22]

• WNBA Labor Disputes and CBA Negotiations:
  The current moment is pivotal—players are more organized, outspoken, and united on demands for equitable compensation, maternity leave, and post-career benefits.

  “Numbers talk. The numbers are talking and the players are able to be louder in a way that they haven’t before.” — Ari Chambers [30:47]

  “There’s a stronger business sense and grasp for what the reality of the landscape is reflected when they’re coming to an agreement.” — Elle Duncan [33:51]

• Ownership, Investment, and Growth:
  Demand for team ownership is high; expansion fees climb. Still, "cheap owners" remain a hurdle to league-wide modernization (37:10–38:55).

• Advice for Ownership:
  “You’re going to lose money up front. You need to be okay with that. You’re going to lose money, but if you keep investing, it will come back to you.” — Ari Chambers [38:55]

The Future of ‘Vibe Check’

• Focus on Excellence Before Expansion:
  The hosts aim to perfect the show’s current formula before considering scaling up or spinoffs.

  “I care purely about making sure we do the absolute best version of the thing that we have before we talk about expanding... We are still getting our sea legs under us.” — Elle Duncan [39:59]

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3. College Sports: Changes, Challenges, and the Road Ahead

Guest: Amy Prevett Perko, CEO, Knight Commission on Intercollegiate Athletics
Timestamps: 46:10–57:51

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Context: Disruption in College Sports

• Legalized Gambling Scandals:
  Recent NBA probe highlights the impact of sports betting on game integrity—college sports face their risk (46:10–47:34).

Survey of Division I Leaders

• Knight Commission’s Survey:
  Explores university leaders’ views on NIL policies, transfer rules, revenue sharing, Olympic sports, and governance (48:02).

• NIL Institutional Compensation:
  For the first time, schools can compensate athletes directly, leading to complex debates about fairness and Title IX compliance (48:02–49:13).

Transfer Portal Impact

• Controversial Changes:
  Nine in ten D-I leaders see the current “unlimited, immediately eligible” transfer rule as negative for college sports (49:38).

  “Nine in 10 campus leaders said the transfer portal is having a negative effect on Division 1 sports and 84% strongly opposed the current rules.” — Amy Prevett Perko [49:38]

Olympic/Non-Revenue Sports: Survival and Funding

• Commitment for Inclusion:
  93% of surveyed leaders strongly back keeping Olympic sports as part of athletic offerings (51:02).

  • U.S. Olympic success depends on college sports, given no federal funding.
  • 3/4 of leaders support exploring federal funding or sports betting taxes to support non-revenue sports (53:06).

Gender Equity and Title IX

• Revenue Sharing Concerns:
  Many athletic directors favor sport-based (i.e., revenue-generating) NIL payouts, introducing new challenges for women’s and non-revenue sports equity (54:17).

  “There’s a disagreement... on whether institutional payments should be based on how much money an athlete’s sport generates or whether it should be included in the amount of institutional financial assistance...” — Amy Prevett Perko [54:17]

  • Expect legal challenges over how these payments intersect with Title IX [54:17–56:17].

Call for Federal Oversight

• Patchwork Problems:
  With NIL currently regulated at the state level, D-I leaders overwhelmingly support federal legislation to standardize and stabilize the system (56:17–56:36).

  • Multiple proposed bills (SCORE Act in the House, comparable in the Senate) aim to address these discrepancies [56:36–57:51].

  “Leaders really want to see some stability and some uniformity across the board... There’s widespread agreement that kind of legislation is needed...” — Amy Prevett Perko [56:36]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Nike’s Innovation:
  “The most ambitious thing they showed me was something called Project Amplify... it’s an E-bike for your feet. And I tried it on, and it is a surreal experience.” — Kim Basine [07:50]

• On Women’s Sports Investment:
  “With great change comes great responsibility... but the players have always been the best in its kind... now seeing the investment, that’s been the biggest disruptor in the best way.” — Chiney Ogwumike [27:22]

• On WNBA’s Historic Labor Moment:
  “The collective bargaining agreement is a bargain. It’s going to have to have a little give and take, but... the players are able to be louder in a way they haven’t before.” — Ari Chambers [31:51]

• On College Sports Revenue Sharing & Equity:
  “This is one of the most complex legal and philosophical challenges ahead for everyone...” — Amy Prevett Perko [54:17]

• On Building 'Vibe Check':
  “I am completely driven by content... until I feel like we have executed and nailed this thing... I’m far less interested in what’s next in terms of scale and much more in how we each own our little space of Vibe Check and continue to try to make it authentic and real.” — Elle Duncan [39:59]

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Key Timestamps and Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |----------------|------------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:46–15:23 | Nike Headquarters, Brand Turnaround, Product Innovations | | 19:17–41:48 | ESPN Vibe Check, State of Women’s Sports, WNBA CBA & Ownership | | 46:10–57:51 | Knight Commission Survey, NIL, Transfer Portal, Olympic Sports |

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Summary prepared for readers seeking an in-depth, accessible overview of business trends, innovation, and cultural shifts in today’s sports industry—without the need to listen to the full episode.

Transcript

[Michael Barr]

The FIFA World Cup 26 is coming to North America. Get closer to where business meets the beautiful game with a hospitality package featuring premium seats and entertainment. Get closer to wins on and off the pitch. Register [e-mail] interest so have you heard the story about the prescription plan? With savings automatically built in, it's where a family of any size can feel confident the cost of their medication won't hold them back. Go to CMK Co Stories to learn how CVS Caremark helps members save just by being members. That's CMK Co Stories. This holiday season is likely to be a roller coaster for logistics and manufacturing, but having the right staff in place can be easy. When you choose Express employment professionals, they can handle everything. To ensure you have the right size contract workforce, go to expresspros.com solve your workforce challenges when you choose Express to support your hiring in a variety of roles, including two of our biggest areas, manufacturing and logistics, visit ExpressPros.com today. That's ExpressPros.com.

[Unnamed Bloomberg Announcer]

Bloomberg Audio Studios podcasts Radio.

[Kim Basine]

News this is the Business of Sports.

[Michael Barr]

The business of sports can be intimidating.

[Kim Basine]

Or hard for a starter to break into. We really appreciate when our owners are.

[Elle Duncan Cheney Ogumike]

Actually there, you know, with us through the journey.

[Unnamed Bloomberg Announcer]

Teams, ours especially have been very intentional to diversify at all levels of the company.

[Damian Sassauer]

I think we're in the golden years.

[Unnamed Bloomberg Announcer]

For the NFL and college football.

[Kim Basine]

Our demographic reach has continued to expand.

[Ari Chambers]

This is going to be really unlocking the streaming platform for sports fans.

[Michael Barr]

Sports valuations are rising. We'll see when they peak.

[Kim Basine]

You don't have to be the best in your sport to make a whole ton of money.

[Unnamed Bloomberg Announcer]

Bloomberg Business of Sports From Bloomberg Radio.

[Michael Barr]

This is this is the Bloomberg Business of Sports where we explore the big money issues in the world of sports. I'm Michael Barr.

[Damian Sassauer]

I'm Damian Sassauer.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

And I'm Vanessa Perdomo.

[Michael Barr]

Coming up on the show, we'll talk what's next in college sports with Amy Prevett Perko.

[Damian Sassauer]

She's CEO at the Knight Commission on Intercollegiate Athletics. It just did a major survey of Division 1 leaders. Amy joins us for a pulse check on the college athlete.

[Amy Prevett Perko]

We partnered with Elon University Poll to conduct a national survey of Division 1 presidents, university presidents, athletic directors and other campus to really help inform frankly Congress and others as efforts proceed to build a new model of Division 1 sports.

[Michael Barr]

That and more is on the way on the Bloomberg business of sports. But we start with Nike.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

Now, just about a year into CEO Elliot Hill's tenure, some of his big ideas turn around the brand are starting to take shape.

[Michael Barr]

Bloomberg News senior reporter Kim Basine was able to visit Nike's headquarters in Beavertown, Oregon for an up close look at some of the sportswear company's latest innovations. And he is here now to take us through them. Kim, welcome back to the Bloomberg Business of sports.

[Kim Basine]

What is up? Happy to be here always.

[Michael Barr]

Man, you've got the Nike comeback and it is looking pretty good for the company. Tell us about it.

[Kim Basine]

Yeah, it's seems like it's finally getting some traction here. Nike posted a better than expected quarter last quarter. Part of this has to do with running shoes. They're starting to come back there. They lost market share there over the past five years or so to all these upstarts and now we're seeing 20% growth in running and they're starting to come up with those big kind of product breakthroughs that they used to be so well known for. Like, like the big, you know, breaking records kind of make athletes better sort of thing. So that's what we're seeing out of Nike right now.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

You know, we talked recently about how Nike just wasn't really the cool kid shoe anymore. Like they're not what sneakerheads are wearing, they're not what people are excited about.

[Michael Barr]

It's what I'm wearing.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

Well, it's what I always wear. And I was like, wow, I guess I'm not cool anymore. I don't know what the kids wear these days. But are, is that something that's coming back for them now? Is it, is it, are they cool again or is it all about performance?

[Kim Basine]

For sure, trying. Right? And performance is part of that. Like you saw their super bowl ad this year, their first super bowl ad in decades, right? And it was a women's sports super bowl ad. They're back to this. These like big sports anthemic advertising. They're also working on these performance products in a way that it is cool if you develop something that makes someone win a game or a race or whatever. It is something that, that, that helps them along and it creates this aura around the, around the brand that, that people want to communicate and act with, you know.

[Damian Sassauer]

So you were in Beaverton, Oregon not long ago, correct?

[Kim Basine]

Yes, that's right.

[Damian Sassauer]

That's right, that's right. So Phil McCartney, the new chief product officer for Nike, talk to us about this sport offense that CEO Elliot Hill has announced. I mean, what is the deal with that? I mean is that bringing together all of the creative talent within Jordan, Nike, Converse under one roof, is that really gonna happen?

[Kim Basine]

That's exactly right. So this is what happened after Elliot Hill, the new CEO, took over last October. He reorganized his teams around sports instead of men's and women's and however else you want to organize it. So there's like a dedicated team to basketball. Right. That's how they're looking at it. And that way they can develop products and it's in sync with marketing and everything over certain individual sports.

[Damian Sassauer]

So they have a jacket that inflates.

[Kim Basine]

They do have a jacket that inflates.

[Damian Sassauer]

Did you try it on? Did you fly away?

[Kim Basine]

Oh, yeah, I did try it on.

[Damian Sassauer]

I mean, what's up?

[Kim Basine]

It's not helium. Like, yeah, it does inflate. The concept behind that. Let me go through the things that they showed. Yeah, let's hear over at the headquarters. One is a jacket that inflates. The more air that's in it. It's supposed to keep you warmer. And it does feel really strange. Like you hook something up to it and it just puts the air in and then you push it out if you want it smaller. That's set to debut, I believe, at the Mil Olympics next year.

[Damian Sassauer]

Oh, wow.

[Kim Basine]

Some other things. They have a shoe that's supposed to make your. Make you calm, like before or after an intense athletic endeavor, like a game or a race or whatever it is. So it stimulates pressure points in the bottom of your feet in order to trigger responses in your brain.

[Damian Sassauer]

A massaging shoe.

[Kim Basine]

It felt weird. Like it really. The bottom of your feet get. It's odd.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

That sounds like something that a lot of people would jump on. Like, professional athletes would be all over that. Okay.

[Kim Basine]

A couple other things. The Aerofit fabric is supposed to help regulate your body heat. So that's gonna go in like a soccer jersey, so when you're going through, you don't feel so hot.

[Damian Sassauer]

It's a lot of stuff, right?

[Michael Barr]

What happened to the pro kids? That was my speed. And Converse All Stars and Chuck Taylors. And now, on top of all that you mentioned, they also have. Almost like a slipper is the best way I can describe it. That probably will get over just with the regular folks like me.

[Kim Basine]

Yeah, people like science, anything that can make you better. The most ambitious thing they showed me, though, was something called Project Amplify. And the way they describe it is that it's an E bike for your feet. And I tried it on, and it is a surreal experience. So you put on a shoe.

[Damian Sassauer]

Are those the sensory shoes? The ones, like, you're supposed to feel the grass, like a tickle of grass underneath.

[Kim Basine]

No, no, no, no. You put the shoe on and then it straps around your calf. And then whenever you take a step, it boosts you forward as you move and you start running in it and suddenly like the person running next to you who's not wearing these things is like panting and exhausted and you're like, I'm good.

[Damian Sassauer]

Also like running uphill, like so it makes like, like a, like an incline into a flat surface sort of in a way.

[Amy Prevett Perko]

Yeah.

[Kim Basine]

You can just go. And it just. You can feel the little boost in your.

[Damian Sassauer]

Michael Barr. Pretty soon you two will be able to slam dunk on a professional NBA rim with these, these new gaps.

[Michael Barr]

I would need that shoe and an.

[Damian Sassauer]

AI Reverse Tomahawk windmill, baby.

[Michael Barr]

That is amazing. As. As I'm. As I have more pictures of it. Can that be used in a marathon or will they call that an illegal shoe?

[Kim Basine]

I'm. That. That's an illegal.

[Unnamed Bloomberg Announcer]

Yeah, that's.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

This is clearly not something used for performance in a competition. So what's the point of having a shoe like that?

[Kim Basine]

It could be used for a few, A few Nike things in the past have been more for medical purposes like self lacing and, and the fly ease that you can just slip your shoe on. If you can't bend over to slip your shoe on that. That really helps those people. So if you want to, if you can't walk long distances and want to like this is the type of thing that would certainly help you perform at a level that you previously couldn't.

[Damian Sassauer]

I heard they also are making clothing so that it's focused on the areas where you perspire. Perspire the more the most. Right. So it gives you ventilation. So you know, maybe under your arms or.

[Kim Basine]

Cool. They talk about. I'm not a scientist, but they talk about like a, like, like the.

[Damian Sassauer]

Sounded awesome though.

[Unnamed Bloomberg Announcer]

Yeah.

[Kim Basine]

Like you have a. You have your own climate right. Between you and your clothes and how to, how to.

[Damian Sassauer]

You need a charging station. You got to like be plugged into the side of the wall for 15 minutes or something like that.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

Is that not what already like cool gear, like Under Armour stuff Already is.

[Kim Basine]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And moisture wicking fabric on Lululemon pants and everything. The whole industry is working.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

So they're just like late to the game, essentially.

[Kim Basine]

They have some already.

[Michael Barr]

Well, one of the biggest problems that Nike had was that their shoes were not getting into the shoe stores and you know, in that five year period where they were slumping. But now that has turned around, especially.

[Kim Basine]

On the performance side, like I had a jarring experience out in Portland. I was writing a story about Nike last year and I went to Fleet Feet. That's a specialty running company. It sells running shoes and running gear for runners. And you go in and you see the Mizunos and you see the Ons, and you see the Hokas, and you see every brand in the world and you ask them, hey, y' all have any Nikes here? No, not right now.

[Damian Sassauer]

They have to earn back that shelf space, huh?

[Kim Basine]

Yeah, and they have to earn that shelf space. They're back in Fleet Feet now, but again like now they're just alongside everyone who had taken their place before. And all these brands that, that shoppers have been looking at and trying out over the last five years.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

Was it also something that we saw from the professional athlete side, professional runners not wanting to be sponsored by them?

[Kim Basine]

Well, it depends. They're all, everyone wants a sponsorship, right? In, in some ways. But a common gripe from athletes at Nike is that you're just one of many, many, many, many, many people within their portfolio. So some of them like to sign with smaller brands, even if they don't pay as well or whatever the situation is, because they get to be like a bigger star at that smaller brand.

[Damian Sassauer]

Well, for our audience, let's just like clarify here. Under former CEO John Donahoe, Nike began prioritizing direct to consumer sales over its partnerships with Foot Locker and Dick's, et cetera. But now Foot Locker and Dick's are one in the same, right? So the challenge must be that much harder. But you know, we recently had a great interview on the show and they were talking about the Dick superstores. And within those superstores, what my understanding is, is that Nike's going to have its own almost like mini store or mini section. Is that really the future of, of, of bricks and mortar retail in the sports industry?

[Kim Basine]

I think with, with, with Nike in particular, as it's looking back at rebuilding its relationship with these wholesalers, they're looking for like the, a nice presentation. It was a common gripe from 10 years ago. If you're sold in like a lower end shoe store or even a Foot Locker, if you're on a wall with every other shoe, you don't stand out at all. Right? So all these brands, they want their own spaces in stores. They want like more experiential things where you enter an area and it's all about Nike. And you can learn about the shoes and you can try things on, you can jump in them and test how high you Just leaped in that thing. The new footlockers have those built into their basketball sections. Like that's, that's what retail is becoming and Nike wants as big a part of that as it now.

[Michael Barr]

The new CEO, when I use the phrase new I put it in quotes, but he has fired about a percent of the executive staff and he brought in new voices and new faces. How is that working out so far?

[Kim Basine]

Yeah, everything's very new at Nike right now. He replaced most of his direct reports. So lots of oustings, promotions, new hires and everything just in the C suite alone. And there were limited layoffs at Nike also recently as they restructured around these sports based teams. So it's an all new group up there at the top of Nike making these decisions. And so far the turnaround seems to have just gotten into its very earliest stages. They've cleared out much of the old inventory that they need to clear out to replace it with all this new stuff. And now from here the executives keep saying this recovery will not be linear, but it certainly has to be linear over a long term.

[Amy Prevett Perko]

Right.

[Kim Basine]

Just to keep that arrow going up.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

Kim, you mentioned that the jacket that they're creating and debuting at the Milan Olympics, the Milan Winter Olympics next year, but they have the Olympics and then the World cup shortly after. How much of their focus is going to those two major events?

[Kim Basine]

I expect it'll be a big, big focus for not just Nike but all these athletic brands, Nike in particular, now that it's back to this big these instead of like these little Internet clicky ads, they're, they're going big with this stuff. And especially now that they've reorganized around sports, these big sporting events will be Nike's big sporting events as well. So the Olympics, the World cup, the World cup in particular because Elliot Hill, the CEO has stated that global football will be one of Nike's five big categories going forward and they will be investing in, in that category. And that's where you go one on one directly with Adidas. That is that smash mouth fight that you want to see.

[Damian Sassauer]

Well Kim, the reason we're talking about Nike, not only the fact that you were there, but they had a great earnings quarter and the stock is up on the back of news as is Adidas. But I'm curious, on that earnings call, did CEO Elliot Hill at all discuss the impact of tariffs and on their business and how that's impacting input, prices and margins and that sort of thing? Is that going to be a big topic?

[Kim Basine]

He did and it's getting worse. So they said that it was going to be about a billion in costs before. Now that number is up to 1.5. Nike has said it will be using targeted or what's, what's their, what's their jargon for this? Surgical surgical price increases across their, across their product lines. I expect them to defend the or protect the prices of the the biggest products right like the, the white Air Force One and and and these really core products. They'll work as much as they can to keep them where they are. But yeah, you'll continue to rise at Nike going forward.

[Damian Sassauer]

Our thanks to Bloomberg News senior reporter Kim Basine for joining us.

[Michael Barr]

Up next, we turn to the WNBA and a brand new show from ESPN with a focus on women's sports for my colleagues Damian Sassauer and Vanessa Perdomo, I'm Michael Barr. You are listening to the Bloomberg Business of Sports Bloomberg Radio around the World The FIFA World Cup 26 is coming to North America next summer. It's the ultimate celebration of sports and culture and an opportunity to elevate your company. Get closer to where business meets the beautiful game with a premium hospitality package. Build partnerships in the best seats and suites. Achieve goals over world class food and beverage. Get closer to wins on and off the pitch. Register [e-mail] Interest when you own your.

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[Ari Chambers]

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[Michael Barr]

Radio, this is the Bloomberg Business of Sports where we explore the big money issues in the world of sports. I'm Michael Barr.

[Damian Sassauer]

I'm Damian Sassauer.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

And I'm Vanessa Perdomo.

[Michael Barr]

ESPN has a new show streaming on Disney called Vibe Check, hosted by Elle Duncan Cheney, Ogumike and Ari Chambers.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

Bloomberg Original's chief correspondent Jason Kelly got a chance to sit down with El Chenay and Ari from the sidelines of the USC Next Level Sports Conference in la. And they spoke about their new show, the WNBA and more. Let's listen to a portion of their conversation.

[Jason Kelly]

So Ella, I'll start with you. Like, tell us about this show. Like what is it? Like what, what did you conceive of it and how's it going?

[Ari Chambers]

Yeah, so I think that the conception of the show was a space where like we could talk about women's sports but talk about them from our own perspective. And I think, you know, the goal in putting Vibe Check together was not that like we wanted to be super overly intentional about like let's get the female perspective. We are women and so our perspective on sports, whether that be a women's sport or a male sport will skew women and female, because that's what we are. So for us, it was just more about being able to unpack more stories, bringing in amazing people like Ari, who has such a temperature on the women's sports culture and has for so many years, like, giving her a place where she could cook and have all of this information that she's got about whatever it is from gymnastics to women's basketball. And I think that's, you know, the ability to showcase all of this incredible women talent at ESPN was really probably the force multiplier of wanting to do this show. Because in their respective roles, we're all sort of limited to the time that we have and the role that we have.

[Amy Prevett Perko]

But this is.

[Ari Chambers]

This is a place where everybody can come and unpack everything that they know in an environment that's super warm. And I think it's going pretty well.

[Jason Kelly]

Brent, what do you think?

[Kim Basine]

Shanay?

[Elle Duncan Cheney Ogumike]

I think the vibes are high. I would say the vibes are. The vibes are immaculate.

[Unnamed Bloomberg Announcer]

Yeah.

[Elle Duncan Cheney Ogumike]

You asked about the inception or conception of it. It came from authenticity.

[Michael Barr]

Yeah.

[Elle Duncan Cheney Ogumike]

So what girl were we working the tournament. We're working the NCAA tournament, and they give us so much content. And obviously, working with Andrea, it's like you're going into this basketball matrix. So Elle needed an easy way to get our thoughts because we're going to break. We're cutting through so many different games. And so she's like, let's just do something like a vibe check where I give out two answers and you pick from them and see if you two are on the same vibe. Oh, so that was the start of vibe check because both of us just can go to these basketball crazy dark corners. But, yeah, I remember the first one, too.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

Do you remember what it was?

[Elle Duncan Cheney Ogumike]

No, what was it?

[Ari Chambers]

It was, yes, the refs. Ari knows.

[Amy Prevett Perko]

I asked them.

[Ari Chambers]

I go, what's gonna be the second half storyline? 3, 2, 1.

[Amy Prevett Perko]

And they both said, the refs.

[Elle Duncan Cheney Ogumike]

I think Drea said the refs, and I said the referee. We gotta work on our mind. Yeah, just shorten it. But that's where it started, just seeing if we're on the same page. And from there, it was like the most authentic thing. It created a greater space for more voices, more sports, and just for us to be ourselves.

[Michael Barr]

Yeah.

[Elle Duncan Cheney Ogumike]

Because oftentimes at ESPN, she's working SportsCenter, you're working 100 zillion different events. I'm working NBA. But this was a space for us to be ourselves.

[Jason Kelly]

So I come in here to tell us about that exact Point. Because, you know, obviously, women's sports, we're going to talk a lot about that, are rising in popularity, in viewership, in attention at ESPN and elsewhere. What are you. How is that manifesting in your work, and how do you see it showing up?

[Elle Duncan Cheney Ogumike]

Well, because it's increasingly popular, I can change or transform, transfer my energy from advocacy to storytelling. All I ever wanted to do is amplify in storytelling around women's sports. Women athletes and Vibe Chat gives me the opportunity to do that. We have this big, comfy couch that Elle typically sits on with their feet up, and we bring in guests and get to just be the voice for them or help relay whatever they want to relay. And then we can share our perspectives, and I can focus on with my great teammates, sharing instead of breaking down these doors. Yes, it exists to be the standard, be an innovative space, but it also exists as another megaphone for what we're already doing.

[Jason Kelly]

Right. It's interesting that you frame it like that, because it does feel like they're in the best possible way. When you turn on the show, everybody's sort of in. You know, there's not sort of a like, okay, we're gonna explain to you what's going on. It's like, welcome in. This is happening. So just like. And we've been felt that on stage. I mean, that feels very intentional.

[Amy Prevett Perko]

Cheney.

[Elle Duncan Cheney Ogumike]

Yeah, it absolutely is. Because, one, we understand that every second is an opportunity for us to talk about what we love. We don't take this for granted because it doesn't happen often. We're always a mix of people because we have so many amazing voices at espn. And beyond that, you. So the moment we say, show's on, we're in it. Elle always has something cooked up. Some joke, some scheme, some skit. I am already prepping for how I'm gonna take down Draya in an argument. Ari is telling us what is the most important thing that happens in women's sports this day. And communicating with guests she's known her whole life, basically. So I think we understand that the show is shorter than most, and so we want to give it the best punch ever. And that's why I think it's always. But even beyond that, us getting to know us. It's a bigger or a better space for you to know us as people. I see. I look on the wall and I see a Stanford flag. I see Tennessee flag. I see all of Elle's ATL trinkets.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

Bobblehead, literally.

[Elle Duncan Cheney Ogumike]

There are bobbleheads of outcasts right there. Andrew 3000 is right there. But it helps you get to know us better so that they have great platforms that they're going to continue to build. I'm still building mine. So it kind of as to our credibility when we storytell around other ESPN entities.

[Jason Kelly]

And so how does it fit in your mind? You know, you work across all of these different aspects of espn. How does it fit into the ESPN ecosystem which is feels like it's changing every day. The media landscape is changing every day. Like, how do you see it sort of like fitting in or maybe defining where it's going?

[Ari Chambers]

Yeah, it's actually a bit a of by nature a bit of a disruptor because it is one of the only studio shows that we put on Disney plus along with SC plus, which premiered, you know, a little bit before ours did as well. So I think that gives you like an ability to sort of merge the worlds of linear TV and digital. You know, Ari is like a monster in the digital space. I've done more linear, although I've also, I've also dabbled in digital. You've done like, she's fantastic on social media and those things as well. But mostly her day job is social media. It's been really cool to see the different groups sort of come together and conceive what this would look like, knowing that it's on a streaming platform, but also like understanding that it is still TV and we still want to have the same goals, which is to educate, to entertain, to be fast paced, to get big interviews, to talk about what's happening. So I would say in the space at espn, it's looked at incredibly favorably. And also it's become a bit of a destination for the women that work there. Like the ones that haven't been on the show or hosted yet are like, when do I get my vibe check invite?

[Amy Prevett Perko]

Right?

[Ari Chambers]

And I'm like, bring some stories. Like tell them that you are interested and that you want to bring it to the table.

[Elle Duncan Cheney Ogumike]

Also for the women talent, they sit down and watch it with their families. Jess Mendoza was telling me she watches it with her family and because they can't watch it live often, they can just turn it on Disney and stream it after.

[Unnamed Bloomberg Announcer]

Right?

[Jason Kelly]

All right, so let's talk about the state of women's sports if we can. Fascinating moment. You know, today we heard a lot of what was going on. You know, you guys had Ally Reilly on, you know, literally days after her retirement from the NWSL with local team Angel City. We had just Smith from the Valkyries. It feels exciting, but Also, like, a little bit precarious, given everything that's going on with the W, especially. I mean, Janay, maybe start with you. The W. What should we be thinking right now? I mean, we're talking a week before the CBA is up.

[Michael Barr]

Wow.

[Jason Kelly]

Yes.

[Elle Duncan Cheney Ogumike]

You know, I have plenty of experience with the WNBA with change, considering that I'm, you know, I was a member of the wnbpa. My older sister is currently the president of the Players Association. But with. With great change comes great responsibility. But also it comes with disruption. You used the perfect word, Elle. I look at Angel City, and that was the blueprint for its time and considerably for the future with what is possible. I played in the WNBA when I went to my first Amdel City game. I was still playing, and I was like, whoa. I'm literally across the street, and I'm like, what they have going with the business, the infrastructure, the support, the impact influencers, the investors. I brought some of my family to that game, and they're like, I didn't know this was possible. In women's sports, then you take that blueprint, literally, shout out to Jess Smith and take it over to the Golden State Valkyries and build something that shocks a lot of people in its valuation. So, one, the players have always been the best in its kind. Right. Always going to put out the best product. But now seeing the investment, that's been the biggest disruptor in the best way, because people are starting to see that you can get in on something right now that is huge for years to come. It's a generational asset, and I do believe that's transforming above all sports, the future of the industry. NFL's at its peak. NBA is at its peak. You know, NHL at its peak. Women's sports is rising. And we're seeing that generational change through disruption, positive disruption, good leadership. I'm excited. And it's wild because the headlines are wild.

[Jason Kelly]

Yeah.

[Elle Duncan Cheney Ogumike]

Women are owning their own narratives and statements. I often say that, like women's athletes, they tend to have multiple degrees. They know what they're doing. They understand that their power is in the collective. It's unlike anything we've ever witnessed before. We're glad to be storytellers of it, but I do think that we will continue. And I say we because I can never say, like, I'm on the other side, you know, Jeremy, you earned that.

[Ari Chambers]

Right to say we, girl.

[Elle Duncan Cheney Ogumike]

Oh, some people don't know how it is, but I'm excited for the future because the business is booming. The players are becoming worldwide stars. And the sky is truly the limit, and we'll see where it goes.

[Jason Kelly]

How worried are you about this?

[Elle Duncan Cheney Ogumike]

I knew you were gonna come back to me on that. I'll say this every day, things change. But one thing I do know for sure is that everyone wants to keep the product on the floor. We just. And I say we. Again, languages have to be spoken that are the same. I think that there was a huge moment, obviously, with Nafeesa Collier putting out her statements. While that was quite a bit to process, particularly from the league standpoint, it did create an opportunity to reset. And right now it's crunch time. And hopefully all parties, which I believe they are, are working towards reconciliation and moving forward because this is the momentum that women's sports has been dreaming of. And it's not just basketball. This is a moment that will define women's sports by the cba. Bigger paid maternity leave opportunities for veterans when they're done playing. There are so many intricacies that touch the workplace overall, not just sports. So the time is now. Every day, it's like a coin flip. But I do think they have the same goal. Now. It's time for them to speak the same language.

[Jason Kelly]

Ari, what do you think? I mean, you understand sort of the landscape of women's sports as well as anyone, and she can be way more real than me. What do you think as far as revenue?

[Elle Duncan Cheney Ogumike]

I remember having conversations with people in 2018 saying the cost of inaction is greater than the risk. Right. And you see the return on investment. And people like Mark Davis, who bought what, the aces for 2 million 20, 21 million dollars, 200 plus million. It's. It's a ridiculously great investment to have. Now, as far as the cba, I am not as close as Cheney is in it. I will say historically, they have not met the deadline, but they have come into a consensus before the season starts. Knowing what they're up against, between expansion, draft, free agency, and the trajectory that women's sports is right now, they want a common goal to keep the product on the floor. To reiterate. But what's the vibes from the players? No one's closer to more players than you. The players. I'll quote neca. NECA told me that for the first time, they have a real strong foundation that they're unwilling to waver in their foundational requests. Right. But the players, who can't be as neck as a president for a reason. Right. So the players are feeling like, okay, no, we're worth this. We're not going to Stop until we get the demands. Like we're going to demand this. But the collective bargaining agreement is a bargain. Bargain. It's going to have to have a little give and take, but the value is there. Numbers talk. The numbers are talking and the players are able to be louder in a way that they haven't before. Swin Cash, when she renegotiated in 2016, said, we had to know when to walk away from things. We had to know what to ask for so that the league can sustain. And I think that there's apprehension on the league side with sustainability if you fulfill all the requests right now with the trajectory and the way it's be to going, growing. But the reality is, how long do you lean on skepticism before you completely make your product that's so great feel less than what they deserve?

[Jason Kelly]

Yeah.

[Ari Chambers]

To echo what they're saying, I did talk to Sue Bird recently on her podcast and I thought one of the things that she said that stood out to her about this negotiation and she couldn't get much into it. She is part owner.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

Right.

[Ari Chambers]

But she was just really inspired by the interest from the players. She's like, I remember past CBAs, like.

[Elle Duncan Cheney Ogumike]

They wouldn't even answer the phone for the little me.

[Ari Chambers]

She was like, they wouldn't answer the phone. They wouldn't show up to meetings.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

They didn't.

[Ari Chambers]

She's like, I don't even know if I knew who my team rep was for the first part of my career. She was like, just. Because there was just almost this hopelessness of like, well, they're not gonna give.

[Elle Duncan Cheney Ogumike]

Us anything or we're at the mercy.

[Ari Chambers]

Of, yes, like, we, like, we can't be audacious enough to ask for anything. So what's the fricking point? And so for her to see the engagement from the players and to see the confidence to stand up there and say, like, this is what we deserve. These are the non negotiables. This is what we want to see. The bold, like, you know, movement of the T shirts and the speaking.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

She's.

[Ari Chambers]

She said that. And I think that's probably what's been the biggest difference. Cheney is the engagement from the players who are standing in purpose and saying, like, we know what our values and we are going to speak for what's right. Because to her point, this has the potential to really be a defining, seminal moment in women's sports.

[Elle Duncan Cheney Ogumike]

And there's a. Players are now having ownership positions, whether that's within, you know, being a retired player, having a team of their own, or creating their Own leagues or owning their own businesses. Like Janae said, they have multiple degrees. They're challenging because they. The league is the mouthpiece for the owners, so they're challenging. The conventional thought of, we cannot accommodate this because this is not how the business model is when you have them running businesses now. So it's just a stronger business sense and grasp for what the reality of the landscape is reflected when they're coming to an agreement.

[Jason Kelly]

Yeah, it's such an interesting point, because in sports writ large, not just women's sports, you now have athletes with economic interests and economic power that literally they've never had before. You know, whether, you know, today, Chris Paul, Maria Sharapova, you know, the three of you, you know, I mean, it's an entirely different landscape when it comes to athletes and the business of sports.

[Elle Duncan Cheney Ogumike]

You have players that are multimillion dollar brands that understand their worth. You have players that are launching their own own leagues and finding creative ways to be sustainable, but also go beyond that, create new partnerships, and then you have players that still do. The traditional mode of going and playing overseas, the options are much different than where they were in the past. And I do think that this is a good sign, you know, when players can feel like they stand with a individual or collective value, that's a good sign for business. But what they want is to be able to share in the growth of that.

[Jason Kelly]

Yeah.

[Elle Duncan Cheney Ogumike]

Not saying that it has to be equal to what we compare to in other sports leagues, but something that is proportional for what they reflect and where the business is today. And these players, that's what I loved about what Ali said. They talk to each other. Yeah. I'll never forget in the last cba, sue was on. So, you know, who else was listening in the background? I don't know if that was fair. I don't know if I was going to my seat. Megan was in the bath.

[Jason Kelly]

Megan Rapina, her partner.

[Elle Duncan Cheney Ogumike]

And they just accomplished. Going to Capitol Hill and fighting Parade was crazy. I remember. Then they take that institutional knowledge and say, hey, wnba, what do you need to know? And they're like, oh, this is how we're going to help our league grow. We're going to take this and build our own leagues, you know, so they're problem solving on the fly, but you don't want the problem to be with an institution that you love and adore you dreamt of since you were a kid. You want to be partners in that. Oh, and then lastly, the valuation of teams and what the owners are willing to pay. Now, that There's a higher demand for. When you bring in a team, you have to meet a certain standard of economic stability. That makes a difference, too, because there's an inequity of ownership willingness to compensate the players. And I think that if all ownership groups were able to come to a consensus of what it looks like to be a successful team and what the ownership groups are willing to put in the. Into the players, it wouldn't be so back and forth again. I think the league is the mouthpiece for the owners to help bridge the gap between the seven wealthiest versus the rest.

[Ari Chambers]

My sources tell me that's not a problem. My sources that have negotiated the last few expansion. Expansion teams have told me that in terms of that valuation, that they. They had three teams that were willing to pay that $250 million expansion fee and that if they wanted to, they could have had 12.

[Elle Duncan Cheney Ogumike]

Right. Yeah, exactly.

[Ari Chambers]

The new ones, but the existing ones.

[Elle Duncan Cheney Ogumike]

Is what I'm saying.

[Ari Chambers]

Yes, absolutely. Yeah. And I think they're going to have to force.

[Elle Duncan Cheney Ogumike]

They're going to have to force them.

[Ari Chambers]

In for the ones that they're going to have to.

[Jason Kelly]

And that is the ownership side. We've seen this in soccer and now we're seeing it in basketball just as much that, you know, this is. This is the evolution of a league. Right. In the sense that, like, it's no longer, you know, you guys have heard this as much as I have. It's no longer a charity. You're not doing it out of your foundation. This is a business. You know, when Willoughby and Bob Iger bought Angel city at a $250 million valuation, that was the business decision franchise.

[Elle Duncan Cheney Ogumike]

So now sitting in 2025, about 3. 2026. That looks like a steal. Yeah, absolutely. Where that's trending.

[Jason Kelly]

Right.

[Ari Chambers]

But, you know, I do also think, like, Ari, to your point, there is always going to be cheap owners. Like, it's across. It just is.

[Amy Prevett Perko]

There are.

[Ari Chambers]

I mean, how many times do you see the NFLPA warn their players, don't.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

Go play for them?

[Ari Chambers]

Like. Like, this is just a reality of it. You're going to have huge investment from some owners and you're going to have some owners who are cheap and like, the. But to her point, it's the few and far between those cheap ones that don't want to spend any money, don't want to upgrade to facilities, don't want to do any of those things that need to be, you know, continue to weed out by making sure that there is a huge investment in these people and I think my sources are telling me that one of the biggest, like, sort of tipping points and selling points to these prospective new owners is, like, just like any other business. As an entrepreneur that you have started, you are going to lose money up front.

[Damian Sassauer]

Right.

[Ari Chambers]

You need to be okay with that. You're going to lose money, but if you keep investing, it will come back to you. 10. And I think to your point, like, Mark Davis is a huge symbol for that you buy. He lost money until he didn't, and now he's got the most important franchise in the W. So I think multiple.

[Jason Kelly]

Rings, I was going to say.

[Unnamed Bloomberg Announcer]

That'S.

[Ari Chambers]

Why they're the most important franchise.

[Elle Duncan Cheney Ogumike]

And that's it.

[Michael Barr]

Yeah.

[Jason Kelly]

All right, so. So to wrap it up, it feels like just based on this discussion, vibes are good. Like, and sit on top of the world. And so what's next for a vibe Check? Like, how do you guys think about, you know, the next year or two, you know, looking out? Does the show grow? Does it spin off? Like, what's. What is the grand vibe check plan?

[Michael Barr]

Elle?

[Elle Duncan Cheney Ogumike]

Oh, man.

[Jason Kelly]

You're sitting right there in the middle.

[Ari Chambers]

Gave me the middle seat.

[Amy Prevett Perko]

Yeah.

[Ari Chambers]

I mean, I think, you know, the goal is always to at least from this side and, like, that question may be better answered by a marketing executive or one of our executives, but what.

[Jason Kelly]

Do you want it to be?

[Ari Chambers]

For me, I care purely about making sure we do the absolute best version of the thing that we have before we talk about expanding and spinning. And I am completely driven by content. And I am also a bit of a perfectionist in that until I feel like we have executed and nailed this thing. And we're still figuring it out. I mean, vibe check premiered in May. Like, it's just been around for a few months. We are still getting our sea legs under us. We're still figuring out combinations because, again, we do have so many. We're still figuring out audience metrics. I mean, you know, something can be sold, and that's amazing. Like, we want it to be sold, but it takes some time to get research, to figure out what people are resonating with, like, what topics they're interested in. And so for me, I'm far less interested in, like, what's next for vibe Check in terms of scale and much more in, like, how we each own our little space of vibe Check and continue to try to make it authentic and real and a place that's a destination for families to come and learning over the last few months what our demos are, what our audience looks like. That to me is information that we'll use moving forward.

[Jason Kelly]

Can you add to that mic drop? That's my sis. Well, I appreciate all three of you spending some time. This is really fun to chop it up. Vibes are great.

[Elle Duncan Cheney Ogumike]

Vibes are great. Wait, I feel like we should have done a vibe check.

[Amy Prevett Perko]

We should.

[Ari Chambers]

I know.

[Amy Prevett Perko]

Yeah. Wait, why not? Oh, okay.

[Ari Chambers]

I got one.

[Jason Kelly]

Okay.

[Ari Chambers]

Georgia or Georgia Tech?

[Jason Kelly]

Georgia Tech.

[Kim Basine]

Sorry.

[Ari Chambers]

You went to Georgia though?

[Jason Kelly]

I didn't go to Georgia, I just.

[Ari Chambers]

Oh, you're just a Georgia fan.

[Jason Kelly]

I'm a fan of like I have a lot of family from Georgia Tech, which is probably where I tend. And then I have a of lot from Georgia.

[Ari Chambers]

Ah, so you're.

[Elle Duncan Cheney Ogumike]

So you just picked one.

[Ari Chambers]

Georgia Tech, Georgia State or Georgia? I'm just kidding.

[Jason Kelly]

Georgia Southern.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

That's Elle, Duncan, Cheney Gumake and Ari Chambers speaking with our own Jason Kelly in LA at the USC Next Level Sports Conference.

[Michael Barr]

Elle Cheney and Ari have a new show from ESPN called Vibe Check. You can catch that on Disney.

[Damian Sassauer]

And if you want to hear more of their conversation with Jason, we've got it ready for you on demand on our podcast feed. Subscribe now on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

Up next, we turn to college sports and a survey of some of its top leaders across the country.

[Michael Barr]

For Damien Sassower and Vanessa Perdomo, I'm Michael Barr. You are listening to the Bloomberg Business of Sports Bloomberg Radio around the World.

[Unnamed Bloomberg Announcer]

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[Michael Barr]

Thanks for joining us on the Bloomberg Business of Sports. We explored the big money issues in the world of sports. I'm Michael Barr.

[Damian Sassauer]

I'm Damian Sonosauer.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

And I'm Vanessa Perdomo.

[Damian Sassauer]

The Knight Commission on Intercollegiate Athletics is an independent group of thought leaders that have played an active role in shaping collegiate sports.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

Recently, the Commission did a survey of Division one leaders nationwide to take their temperature on all the big changes in college sports over the last few years.

[Michael Barr]

Hell around the set gang. Joining us now to discuss some key takeaways from the survey and more is Night Commission and intercollegiate athletic CEO Amy Prevett. And that perk out in a major story that broke involving an NBA probe into illegal gambling and poker games that were rigged, rigged prop bets. NBA commissioner Adam Silver has a very big headache to deal with. Amy?

[Amy Prevett Perko]

Well, you know, sports gambling certainly is an issue that's impacting the entire ecosystem of sports in America. So is certainly terrible when we hear about scandals. And I think, you know, our country, as sports gambling has become, you know, more, more widespread, we're going to have a lot of issues that we're going to have to wrestle with. And even in college sports, just last month, 13 Division 1 players were ruled ineligible due to issues related to gambling. But then at the same time, the NCAA just changed really historic rules that prohibited college athletes from gambling on professional sports. And so that's been lifted. So, you know, there's a lot of bumpy roads ahead, I think, as it relates to sports gambling and how it's going to impact the integrity of games.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

It's a bumpy road ahead, everything that's going on with sports gambling and, and we'll take a deeper look at that later on. But, but right now we're here to talk to you about how college athletics is working and the bumpy road ahead for them. Cuz quite frankly, there's a lot going on in college athletics as well. The Knight Commission had a survey went out, you know, surveying athletic directors and team presidents and, you know, athletic presidents. Can you tell us more about the commission and what you're looking to find in that?

[Amy Prevett Perko]

The Knight Commission is an independent, really think tank that focuses on college sports policies with a priority on policies that really are directed toward athletes, education, health, safety and their success. We partnered with Elon University Poll to conduct a national survey of Division 1 presidents, university presidents, athletic directors and other campus leaders to really help inform, frankly, Congress and others as efforts proceed to build a new model of Division 1 sports. There have been, you know, historic changes in college sports. This year is the first year ever in its history that schools, Division 1 schools can provide direct nil compensation compensation to athletes directly for the, for their name, image and likeness. So athletes are receiving, you know, compensation well in excess of, you know, the traditional athletic scholarship. And so that's been a big change. And we've also seen lots of changes around transfer rules. And now, you know, you see more movement and more transfers. We were assessing how leaders feel about all these changes.

[Damian Sassauer]

There were a lot of questions that you asked during the national survey of Div.1 leaders. There were things ranging from The Olympics, to the House vs NCAA settlement terms and all that good stuff. But I do want to ask you about the transfer portal because as a spectator of college sports, there's a case to be made that it's not necessarily a bad thing. But it seems like the results overwhelmingly say that the transfer portal has had a negative impact on DIV. 1. Talk to us a little bit about what's driving that.

[Amy Prevett Perko]

Our survey was conducted after these new rules went into Place on July 1, and we also earlier conducted a public opinion poll. And there's a difference between how the public views the differences in transfer rates and transfer rules and the Division 1 leaders. But overwhelmingly Division 1 leaders identified the transfer rules as a big problem. Nine in 10 campus leaders said the transfer portal is having a negative effect on Division 1 sports and 84% strongly opposed the current rules. Now, the current rules allow athletes to transfer and be immediately eligible an unlimited number of times. Of course, those transfer athletes still have to meet eligibility rules, so they still have to show their own progress to achieve their degree. But one of the other issues that's not captured in those questions is how nil compensation and the continuing recruitment of athletes using nil compensation is factored into that.

[Michael Barr]

One thing about the study that I really like, and a huge majority, 93%, believe that universities must continue offering Olympic sports such as gymnastics, swimming, track and field and others not associated with generating revenue. Can you expand more on that?

[Amy Prevett Perko]

The impact of kind of the new rules and allowing institutions to provide nil compensation to athletes has raised some questions about the long term impact on non revenue sports or as we refer to them as the collegiate Olympic sports. You know, as institutions put more money into football and basketball, there's concern about what's in place to make sure that we still have a broad based opportunities for all athletes. And so from the Night Commission's perspective, you know, the opportunity is a core value, but there's also an impact on the Olympic success of the U.S. you know, the U.S. is incredibly and has been incredibly successful at the Olympics. One of the most kind of misunderstood facts in sports is that our country is unique in the world in that our Olympic development system does not receive any federal funding. And so the Olympic success has really been dependent on our collegiate sports system. And so there's a potential impact on number one opportunity, but then also podium success at the top level of the Olympics. You know, that's part of this survey looked at how did Division 1 leaders feel about the importance of the collegiate Olympic sports. And then secondly, are there kind of new funding mechanisms that should be pursued. And on that point, with regard to the funding, nearly three quarters of leaders favor using some type of federal funds to help finance the collegiate Olympic sports and the development of future U.S. olympians. And as it relates to sports gambling, kind of an interesting finding as well was that more than 80% of Division 1 leaders supported the use of some kind of federal tax on sport gambling operators to also, you know, provide a new fund funding mechanism for collegiate Olympic sports.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

I think it's interesting though that you brought that up because obviously you had said that we don't get federal funding from, for our NGOs of Olympic sports for them to really. So they're really relying on corporate sponsorship and things like that. So I'm assuming that college athletics are going to have to start doing that specifically for Olympic sports. They're going to have to start getting specific corporate sponsorship because those are also not the sports that are getting nil deals that we're seeing. But also I'm interested to another point that that brings me to is how it impacts women's sports because that's also on the Olympics. You know, I was a women's soccer player, a college women's soccer player, and all of this just really comes to fruition for me, which quite frankly, one of the points that struck me was how I believe it was 3/4 of college athletic directors said that they believe that revenue sharing should basically go to the sports that make money, which obviously makes sense because that's what revenue sharing means. But that's not really the majority of Olympic sports or women's sports really. So how does that impact Title 9 and gender equity on college campuses now?

[Amy Prevett Perko]

It's a great question and I think, you know, this era and what's now being allowed with the nil compensation. And again, this is institutional nil compensation that I'm speaking about. Of course, athletes can also still receive the third party nil compensation from the traditional endorsement agreements that they might have with companies. But with regard to the institutional athlete nil payments that are now allowed, it really does raise one of the most complex legal and philosophical challenges ahead for, for everyone because there's a, you know, there's a mix, there's a disagreement frankly on whether institutional payments should be based on how much money an athlete sports generates or whether it should be included in the amount of institutional financial assistance that's provided to athletes. Which, you know, the latter is subject to kind of the Title 9 guidance on, on how to how that money, institutional money should be awarded. And as you know, right now, the Division 1 athletic programs operate as a part of the nonprofit educational mission of the university. You know, the answer to your question is not clear at all. Our survey showed that, you know, leaders, presidents, ads, faculty, athletic representatives, senior woman administrators. When you group all their responses, it's really mixed views. But when you look at just the athletic directors, more than three quarters said, you know, this new, these new institutional payments should just be based on how much money the athlete, sport generates. I do expect that there will be significant litigation on this issue moving forward.

[Damian Sassauer]

I'm curious, what did the commission find as it relates to, you know, federal oversight, you know, some sweeping law? Because right now nil is really governed at the state level. Yeah. And so what's the consensus there? Should some of the rules governing pay for play be coming from the state level or should there be some sweeping federal legislation?

[Amy Prevett Perko]

At this point, the survey of Division 1 campus leaders showed overwhelming support for some type of federal legislation that would help regulate nil compensation. There currently does exist a patchwork of different state laws about nil compensation. So leaders really want to see some stability and some uniformity across the board. And so trying to achieve federal legislation has certainly been something that the NCAA and its institutions, member institutions, have worked very hard on. There are two different pieces of legislation, one in the House of Representatives and one in the Senate that have been introduced. The bill in the House is referenced as the SCORE act, and that does try to achieve some national standards on regulating nil as well as the bill that was introduced in the Senate would do something similar regarding nil compensation. So there's widespread agreement that kind of legislation is needed and then to allow the national rules to supersede any conflicting state laws.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

Our thanks to Amy for joining us. She's CEO at the Knight Commission on Intercollegiate Athletics.

[Damian Sassauer]

And that does it for this week's edition of the Bloomberg Business of Sports.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

What I know. If you missed anything, check it out on On Demand on the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast. Find that on your favorite podcast platform and subscribe.

[Michael Barr]

For my colleagues, Damien Sassower and Vanessa Perdomo, I'm Michael Barr.

[Damian Sassauer]

Tune in again next week for the latest on the stories moving big money in the world of sports.

[Michael Barr]

Hey, now, you're listening to the Blue Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio around the world.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

Stay with us. Today's top stories and global business headlines are coming up.

[Amy Prevett Perko]

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