Business of Soccer Ep. 4: Soccer’s Scapegoat Or Heroic Champion; Dissecting Goalkeepers

Summary

Bloomberg Business of Sports – “Business of Soccer Ep. 4: Soccer’s Scapegoat or Heroic Champion; Dissecting Goalkeepers”

Date: November 3, 2025
Host: Vanessa Perdomo, with Michael Barr & Damian Sassower
Special Guests: Briana Scurry (legendary former USWNT goalkeeper), Martin Paas (MLS All-Star, FC Dallas)

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Episode Overview

In this special “Business of Soccer” edition, host Vanessa Perdomo explores the business, perception, and personal stories of soccer goalkeepers—often seen as either scapegoats or heroes. With the 2026 FIFA World Cup looming, the episode highlights how goalkeepers shape not just games but also markets, brands, and cultural narratives. Interviews with legendary USWNT goalkeeper Briana Scurry and MLS All-Star Martin Paas detail their career arcs, challenges with marketability, trailblazing moments, and the evolving business opportunities for players at the least glamorous, but most vital, position on the field.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The 1999 Women’s World Cup and Its Legacy (w/ Briana Scurry)

• The Shift from Obscurity to Spotlight

  • Scurry recalls how the ‘99 Women’s World Cup was originally billed for small venues, but players and organizers pushed for NFL stadiums, effectively selling soccer “door to door.”
    “We literally went door to door for two years selling our game... and so we were educating and letting people know.” (Briana Scurry, 05:16)

• Olympic Games as a Springboard

  • The 1996 Olympics, though undershown by media, was “the year of the woman,” galvanizing attention and legitimacy for women's team sports. Momentum from that win fueled belief in the standalone World Cup’s potential.
    “That Olympic Games was the year of the woman. It truly was.” (Briana Scurry, 07:30)

• Becoming an Icon (and the Aftermath)

  • Scurry describes the instant transition to fame after the ‘99 PK shootout win.
  • Yet, the victory’s impact and her role didn’t translate equally in marketability or sponsorships.

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2. Goalkeeper Marketability & Overlooked Heroes

• Why Aren’t Keepers Starred Like Scorers?

  • The conversation probes cultural and media biases against celebrating defensive feats. “America and I think the world likes goal scorers, and not too fond of those of us who try to stop goals.” (Scurry, 03:59)

• Race, Orientation, and Being “Before Her Time”

  • Scurry unpacks why her moment in the spotlight didn’t yield the same financial or branding opportunities as teammates. “I think the truth of the matter is…the media wasn’t ready for me. I was way before my time.” (Scurry, 16:06)
  • Points to intersectional challenges: being a Black, openly gay woman in the ‘90s spotlighted problems (and possibilities) of athlete marketability.

• Changing Tides

  • Scurry details how her story found new resonance and sponsorship, especially with shifts in cultural values around inclusion. “Now that has really changed the last few years... it’s actually now bigger for me now than it would have been back then.” (16:38)

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3. The Business of Goalkeeping as a Brand

• Explaining Keeper Value to Brands

  • Scurry highlights her current brand conversations: “Goalkeeping is the foundation of a team... every single team that’s won a world championship or Olympic championship—at one point in time in that run, the goalkeeper had the team on their shoulders.” (Scurry, 23:49)

• Traits for Success—On Field & in the Boardroom

  • Leadership, communication, and reliability—all keeper strengths—are invaluable in both soccer and business. “All these steps of success, these attributes of success are all the same whether you’re on the pitch or in the boardroom.” (Scurry, 25:07)

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4. Martin Paas: From Striker to Keeper, Athlete to Entrepreneur

• Late Bloomer: Striker to Goalkeeper

  • Paas didn’t become a full-time goalkeeper until age 15, after tiring of being a striker. “When offside came into the game around the age of 11, I found out that I was a bit lazy, to be honest… but once I put the gloves on...I really was very keen on learning the little details.” (Paas, 29:02)
  • Cites the thrill of watching Dutch legend Edwin van der Sar in penalty shootouts as his inspiration.

• The Unique Pressure and Allure of Penalty Kicks

  • Both guests and host bond over the adrenaline rush of PKs, where pressure uniquely flips in favor of keepers. “It’s the only moment in games where the pressure is on the kicker and not on a goalkeeper and we have everything to win.” (Paas, 32:36)

• Advice for Young Keepers

  • Paas recommends kids play multiple positions to embrace the game’s evolution: modern keepers must be deft with their feet and think like outfielders.
  • Stresses balancing exposure to social media pressures and focusing on internal growth. “Don’t put too much pressure on yourself… stick to your own path, don’t get distracted and keep going.” (Paas, 33:15)

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5. Marketability, Sponsorships, and Building a Keeper’s Brand

• Brand Disadvantage for Defenders and Keepers

  • Big brands have prioritized strikers and midfielders; defenders and keepers must be more proactive to create opportunities. “After three years...they only signed attackers and midfielders anymore and didn’t sign goalkeepers and defenders… because they weren’t marketable enough.” (Paas, 38:02)

• Paas’s Entrepreneurial Approach

  • Developed his own glove brand (Karma) with skin-in-the-game investment and input into design and sustainability, flipping the classic athlete endorsement script. “I want to have skin in the game and help grow the company… I could build my own signature glove, similar to how basketball players do it.” (Paas, 41:39)
  • Focused on ethical materials and customization.

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6. The Goalkeeper Mindset in Business and Life

• Passion-Led Investments

  • Paas invests in business sectors (gloves, padel, golf, healthy food) where he has both passion and authenticity—mirroring how he chose goalkeeping. “What are you passionate about? If you’re passionate... it’s very easy to help and grow the market because you’re super passionate about it.” (Paas, 44:44)

• Translating Skills Off the Pitch

  • Good keeper skills—resilience, communication, composure—transform into business acumen and leadership.

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7. MLS Growth, Adapting to the US Market, and the World Cup Effect

• Adjusting to MLS Culture and Demands

  • Paas shares how the travel, climate shifts, and intensity in Major League Soccer (MLS) make it an especially tough league. “If you’re not a professional here, you’re gonna struggle a lot… you really have to be adaptable to whatever climate you’re going into… or whatever fatigue you’re feeling.” (Paas, 47:39)

• MLS: From Retirement to Development League

  • Observes that the league’s evolution—bolstered by international attention and figures like Messi—has increased the caliber and youth investment. “Since I came here, from like a retirement league into development league... soccer becomes more and more one of the main sports here in the US.” (Paas, 50:40)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Briana Scurry on Cultural Readiness and Marketability

  “The media wasn’t ready for me. I was way before my time.” (16:06)

• Briana Scurry on Her PK Save’s Aftermath

  “My penalty kick save changed the course of the rules for goalkeepers of PK saves.” (13:12)

• Martin Paas on Modern Keeper’s Value

  “We have to be nearly perfect and you’re not going to be perfect all the time as a goalkeeper. For me, if nobody talks about me, probably I did a really good job.” (Paas, 35:09)

• Paas on the Business Mindset

  “I want to have skin in the game and help grow the company… similar to how basketball players do it with their Nike shoe deal.” (41:39)

• Scurry on Brand Suitability of Goalkeepers

  “Who better to have represent you? If you’re a company that wants to talk about strength or teamwork or camaraderie or leadership, goalkeepers are all those things wrapped into one.” (24:09)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Intro & Episode Theme – 02:14
• Briana Scurry Interview – 03:32 – 25:17
  • The ’99 World Cup legacy – 04:49 – 08:55
  • Marketability, sponsorship & social impact – 15:10 – 18:01
  • The evolution of women’s soccer and the NWSL – 18:01 – 19:30
  • Brand conversations & goalkeeping as a metaphor – 23:49 – 25:17
• Martin Paas Interview – 28:20 – 51:00
  • Becoming a keeper, inspiration – 28:20 – 32:12
  • Advice for young keepers – 33:15 – 34:27
  • Marketability gaps and building a brand – 38:02 – 43:16
  • Gloves business & athlete entrepreneurship – 41:17 – 44:44
  • MLS growth, investment, and World Cup impact – 47:39 – 51:00

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Conclusion

This episode of “Business of Soccer” spotlights the overlooked yet essential role of goalkeepers—on the field and in the business landscape of modern soccer. From trailblazing players like Briana Scurry, who pushed the boundaries for visibility and inclusion, to entrepreneurial current stars like Martin Paas, listeners gain behind-the-scenes insight into the challenges, rewards, and untapped opportunities for goalkeepers. Soccer’s last line of defense is finally getting its due—not only as iconic athletes but as valuable, marketable assets in the multibillion-dollar global industry.

Transcript

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[Brianna Scurry]

Podcasts Radio News this is the Business of Soccer the appetite for soccer in this country is here to stay.

[Hospitality Announcer]

The Global World cup of 26 will.

[Martin Pas]

Bring just that, the globe to the.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

United States every four years. You know, there's this moment where the world wakes up to the incredible athletes that we have on the US Women's national team.

[Martin Pas]

There are more soccer games available to watch on television in the US Than any other country in the world. Soccer, or as I would call it, living in the uk Football is the biggest sport in the world.

[Brianna Scurry]

There's a gap in the market around women's soccer, and we're here to fill that gap. Bloomberg Business of Soccer From Bloomberg Radio.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

This is a special edition of the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast, the Business of Soccer. I'm Vanessa Perdomo and I'm diving in behind the scenes of the beautiful game as we get ready for the 2026 FIFA World Cup. I am so excited for today's episode where we will be focusing all on the business of goalkeepers. As some of you may know, I was a Division 1 college goalkeeper, so this topic is near and dear to my heart. You might hear me get a little nerdy, but stick with me because we have some really great guests. Later, we will talk to MLS all star Martin Pass. But first, we are starting with legendary former U.S. women's National Team goalkeeper, Brianna Scurry. She is one of the reasons I became a goalkeeper. And we started our conversation with talking about the legendary 1999 Women's World cup and how it changed women's soccer and women's sports, as well as getting into why goalkeepers are often overlooked by marketers. Here's my conversation with legend, former US women's national team goalkeeper and 99er Brianna Scurry. So it is my absolute pleasure and dream really, to speak with you today, Brianna, US women's national team goalkeeper, 99, or Brianna Scurry. Guys, I'm fangirling over here. If you can't tell, I was a former goalkeeper. So this is really a dream for me. Brianna, thanks so much for joining the business of soccer.

[Brianna Scurry]

Oh, my pleasure. Thanks for having me. Thanks for thinking of me. So I appreciate that. Goalkeepers unite.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

Exactly. So that's exactly what I wanted to talk to you about. You know, so I think one of the things that is really interesting when we're talking about. We're obviously soccer's coming up a lot this year. That's why we have this podcast. You know, we're around the corner from the World cup. But I think in the conversation of soccer and the conversation of stars, goalkeepers get lost in this conversation. Would you agree with that?

[Brianna Scurry]

I. I do agree. It's a very interesting thing because America and I think the world likes goal scorers and not too fond of those of us who try to stop goals from being scored. So, I mean, it's so interesting because it's exciting. I mean, it's more exciting when a goal is scored, although we obviously think it's. It's better when a goal is stop.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

I love a good save.

[Brianna Scurry]

I know, right?

[Vanessa Perdomo]

We love a good save. I mean, athleticism is. Everyone should really pay attention. That's the best.

[Brianna Scurry]

Yeah, I know. Lack of appreciation, I guess. I don't know what to say.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

Yeah, absolutely. So I want to start with your journey in your career. And obviously we have to start with the 99 World cup, which, you know, I. Is the greatest performance from a team in greatest moment in American sports. But I'm not biased at all. Don't. Don't worry about that.

[Brianna Scurry]

I don't detect any bias.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

So I want to start with, you know, kind of the overall arching aspect of the tournament. It's. It's 1999. It's a World cup in the US but it's women's Soccer. So it's kind of new. I want to. What was your take? You know, throughout. How it grew? The fever grew from grew stages to the final.

[Brianna Scurry]

Well, the fact that we were even having a women's standalone event such as the World cup was interesting and had never really been done on the scale that we were doing it originally. I don't know if you know this, but originally the tournament was supposed to be played regionally in small high school stadiums, two to 5,000 people. But the committee decided to try to blow the doors off the thing and put it in football stadiums. And that was like three years, two or three years before. So we literally went door to door for two years selling our game and said, please, please come to our tournament. We're going to have it right here in the US in your backyard, and you don't want to miss it. And da, da, da. And so we were educating and letting people know. So then when we finally got to play our first game, you know, on a giant stadium in front of 76,000 people, it was truly a dream come true. I mean, it was way beyond any expectation. I mean, because there's a. There's a certain level of desire of a dream that you want to create, and then when you're actually living in it, it's very different. And so we were very emotional, that game. And of course, now that it was. It was happening, we had to get to business. We had to get to work. So we had a fantastic game that day and beat. Beat the Team Denmark, 3 to 0.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

Yeah. And obviously, I know that one of your dreams when you were younger was to be an Olympian, and you played in the Olympics. Right. A couple of years before that. And that was also in the. In 1996, which is kind of the first Olympics where we see women's sports become a big thing. Right. You guys win the gold medal, the US Women's basketball team wins the gold medal, and that spurs the wnba. And then you go into the moment of the World Cup. Did. Did that have any momentum, do you think, or was the World cup still kind of this new concept? Everybody knew what the Olympics was, but not everyone maybe knew what the world. The Women's World cup was.

[Brianna Scurry]

I think the 96 Olympic Games had a lot of momentum in it. One of the things that happened, I don't know if you recall, but they didn't show our game live at all on NBC during that 96 Olympics. They were showing all these other different sports, but they didn't show our game live, even though we had 76,000 people in the stands and were favored to win. And so what you saw, if you weren't at the stadium, you saw snippets. So by the time 99 rolled around, they decided, hey, maybe we should show the whole game once in a while. People might want to watch it. So they did. And so that was one thing that changed. But I also feel like that Olympic Games was the year of the woman. It truly was. And a lot of our collective sports teams in the United States won gold. And I think that really had a shift in how women's sports was perceived, especially team sports. And so when we were trying to do this standalone World cup tournament, a lot of people were skeptical because they were like, oh, well, yeah, the Olympics, of course. Who doesn't want to see the Olympics? And who wouldn't want to go to a game, a gold medal game? And they were saying, well, this is very different. But we believed differently from them, and we thought we could pull it off. So I feel like the two combined tournaments really had an impact on each other. And so, for me, we had great momentum going into the 99 World cup because of the 96 Olympics.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

Right. And so you win in the ultimate fashion of penalty kick shootout, which I. It's my favorite way to win. I think it's just like the. The most incredible feeling. I don't think there's anything that beats it. But did you expect what the fervor that you guys got after winning 99?

[Brianna Scurry]

I feel like we kind of thought there would be some. Some real fire in women's game, especially in women's soccer, after we won, but I don't think we truly understood the magnitude. At least I didn't. You know, it went from relative obscurity, you know, leading into the World cup start to completely everybody knowing who I was right after we won a lot of fame and a lot of, you know, notoriety and truly relief that we had won actually was very, very overwhelming. And so that that fire was lit. And of course, like you said earlier, the 96 Olympics led to the WNBA. The 99 World cup led to the WUSA, which was our first women's league here in the United States. And so there was a lot of fire. Also, I will say that the fact that we won the way we did really did play a factor. My save was one. But also, Brandi taking off her shirt after her goal showed that women could be strong and beautiful at the same time. And so I think that changed a lot of perspectives about women's athletics and especially women's soccer in their states?

[Vanessa Perdomo]

Yeah, absolutely. I, you know, watching the. The pks, I think I probably watch it maybe once a year. It's. It gives me chills to this day. And I remember watching it and the way you acted after, you know, making that save. It's the pumping of the fist, like, up and down. You're so pumped. And I feel like as a goalkeeper, you can stay pretty poised throughout a game when you make a save, you know, but there's something about, like, saving a pk, right, that is just the greatest feeling ever. Do you. Would you agree, is that, like, your favorite part of. Of a game is saving a pk or like the favorite moment, like, adrenaline moment, do you think?

[Brianna Scurry]

I really do. It's. It's an explosion of emotion. So for me, saving PK's, you know, we. We had a mandate essentially. You know, I had to save one, right? And that was the goal. And if I could save two, that would be spectacular, but one was the. Was the requirement. And so I really focused on that thing. And truth be told, PKs are hard. I mean, it is apparently the number seven hardest thing to do is to save a penalty kick in sports. And so I was happy about that. But obviously, I really had all eyes on you, right? 90,000 people holding their collective breath, waiting for you to hopefully spring forward and make a save. And I was able to do that. And I felt like I had to do my part, and I knew that number three kicker was the one. When I walked into that goal, I knew that was the one I was gonna save, and sure enough, I did.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

Was it just like the feeling you got stepping up to the line or how. Why did you know that was the one?

[Brianna Scurry]

So traditionally, my MO was to turn my back to my teammates kicking, because I had nothing to do with that. That wasn't within my power of control. And so I didn't want to put anything into my mind that I couldn't control. But my. My M.O. had been to not look at the kickers as they were approaching the spot. But for some reason, that number three kicker, something in my mind said look. And so I looked at her and I knew. I just knew she was the one I was going to save. And she didn't really look like she wanted to kick. She didn't seem like she was very confident, and I just really felt that this was the one. And sure enough, it was.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

I had to get a little nerdy about goalkeeping for a second and just, like, ask you about the style that you have when you're you know, on the line, you would take multiple steps. I mean, you wait for the whistle, wait for the. Wait for the contact, but then take multiple steps off the line. I mean, I feel like usually people have about. You can take like, one step and like, that's pretty much it. You know, I'm curious how you develop that style and, like, would you teach it to goalkeepers today?

[Brianna Scurry]

Well, today's a little bit different, obviously. Right. So back then, the, the goalkeeper on the line rule was. Was very gray. A lot of referees didn't call it. They didn't really say anything about it. It was very, very gray line. And so because of that, we trained it in practice. And so we were trying to. To get as big of an advantage as we could. And if the referee was going to call, call it back. If I save it, I was completely aware and okay with that. But as it turned out, they didn't. And so if you. Interesting thing, too, if you go back and look, the Chinese keeper was also stepping off the line, but she just, unfortunately for her, didn't get lucky enough to. To get one. So. But now you can. Now you can step off the line as long as you keep that one toe on the line. And. And I honestly believe that my penalty kick save changed the course of the rules for goalkeepers of PK saves. It's been. It's been changed over a few times over the 30 years that it's been. But, yeah, I mean, we trained it like that. We trained it like that.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

That's such another iconic thing. You know, the way I saved it, you know, they had to change it because of what I did. That's. I love it. Okay, so not to get. Okay, that was me getting a little in the weeds. Sorry, guys. I had to ask about it, but I want to go back to the point that you making about the way you guys won and how that, you know, propelled everything a little bit more. And you mentioned Brandy taking her shirt off, which is one of the most iconic photos, you know, ever cover Sports Illustrated. I think it was on the Wheaties box or something like that as well. But the goalkeeper, I mean, you. You made this save. That was the reason why you can go and. And win, right? I mean, there's no. There's no winning without, you know, them missing, missing a shot. But it doesn't happen for you the same way afterwards. I mean, you mentioned people know your name afterwards. You're. You're famous afterwards. But the marketability and the dollars aren't the same. Can you talk A little bit about that and why you think it was such.

[Brianna Scurry]

Yeah. So for the longest time, I wondered about it. I thought to myself, well, at first I was like, well, is it because I'm a goalkeeper versus a forward? You know, maybe the market isn't ready for goalkeepers to be heroes. And then I thought, well, is it because of the color of my skin? Is it because I'm black? Or is it because of my sexual orientation, because I'm gay? And all these different things I was thinking about. And as it turned out, in my. In my. Like, looking back on, unfortunately, I think was because of being out and also because being black. And so because as the years went on, other goalkeepers were given or were awarded, if you will, notoriety and appreciation, not only in their countries, but by the media. And I think the truth of the matter is, in my opinion, is the media wasn't ready for me. I was way before my time.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

And we mentioned openly gay black woman in the 90s. This was not.

[Brianna Scurry]

I was the only one. Nobody else was doing any of the sort. So I was the only one. And I think the. That, you know, the social impact, the societal impact wasn't quite ready for me yet. But now that has really changed the last few years. So I'm actually more grateful because it's actually now bigger, in my opinion, for me now than it would have been back then.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

How do you mean bigger for you now?

[Brianna Scurry]

Well, I think. Yeah, so I think when people look back on the moment, they have an appreciation for what has evolved from there. And now in society, it's not taboo to be out, and it's not taboo to be a player of color either. And also the fact that I did what I did and I became, you know, essentially an iconic person over time. Now media is appreciating me more. I have a lot more sponsorships and partnerships and companies that are wanting to align with me. And I think also because I've had a lot of integrity about, you know, appreciating my. My role and. And where we've come from and all my teammates as well, you know, we've continued to make an impact on this game even though we don't play anymore, and I feel now it's truly being appreciated.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

Yeah, absolutely. I love to hear about that, you know. Cause obviously, you know, for people who don't know your story, they can go buy your book and you have a documentary out as well. And it's a really incredible story. But there was a point where the iconicism or so was lost for the 99 team in general and your story in general. And there was really hard years. When did you start seeing that come back around?

[Brianna Scurry]

So the hard years, traditionally speaking, were the dark years, which is the time when the eye. When the eye shifts from the women's game to the men's game. And so you tend to see some difficulty financially, an ebb, if you will, in time. And for me, over the course of several years after the Women's World cup, unfortunately, the WSA and the WPS both ended up folding, literally before three seasons were played. And so there was a real question mark about whether or not this. This country could sustain a women's soccer league, a professional league. And so that was really difficult for a lot of players to deal with. It's hard to keep your skill set up and sharp if there's no league to play in. And so we all really struggled. But then finally the NWSL came along and we were able to maintain that. And now you're seeing a lot of great players come out of that league, not only from the United States side, but also from around the world, different players coming to play in it. And so I feel like now you are really seeing an evolution and an explosion of women's soccer in this country, essentially, because we continue to win on the national team side and maintaining that excitement with winning and producing and then able to parlay that into a new league which now stands on its own.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

Right, Absolutely. Even though we have to get back to winning, because 2023 wasn't our year, but 2020. The good thing about that is, actually I love to see the international game growing as well, so that there is a lot more competition that makes the. The win that more satisfying. But, yes, getting back to goalkeepers a little bit, you know, and you mentioned it, that maybe at the time, there was obviously all these other factors that led you to not be the most marketable player. But I also think it's interesting when we're looking at goalkeepers, it's a cyclical thing. I mean, there's only been really three goalkeepers of the US women's national team in the last 30 years. I mean, 30 years. That's really crazy. But I think that there's something there, too, that, yes, the other players and other goalkeepers in general and internationally have been able to find some footing, but there also has to be this other element to it, like this, this first. Right. You were the. You were this iconic first player. The 99ers and all of that Hope solo was very notorious for many things. You know, positive and negative made a lot of headlines. But I would say that a lot of my friends who are casual fans don't really know who Alyssa Dare necessarily is by name. So I think there has to be this other thing that propels people beyond for people to notice goalkeepers. Do you think that's on the media side? Do you think it's a personality thing? Like, what would you say that that is?

[Brianna Scurry]

Well, yeah, that's really fascinating point to make for. First of all, let me say that when it comes to winning with the women's side, the teams that are playing the World cup and the Olympics tend to be the same people. On the men's side, it's different. So when you talk about cycles, World cup is first and the Olympics are right. After every single cycle, Team USA has won either the Olympic gold or the World cup championship. And so I think in those few cycles where we were winning Olympic gold instead of World cup gold, it's the same team. And so you have that notoriety. I feel like what happened with Alyssa is, I think that the light shifted from goalkeepers being able to essentially take the game by the scruff of the neck and get the team to the final, and then we figure out how to win it. To the field players, you had Megan Rapinoe, you had Abby Wambach, you've had a lot of different players now. You had Kristen Press, Tobin, Heath, Lindsey Horan, all these great names. And the goalkeeper. Alyssa didn't have to do as much, I feel like, as Hope and I had to do. And so her name wasn't really in the media that much. But the truth is, in my opinion, she proved herself in 2019 because there was no way that that team would have won that World cup if it weren't for Alyssa. But she was greatly overshadowed by Alex Morgan, by Megan Rapinoe, and just by all the different things that were going on. And the first time us winning World cup in. In a long time. So there was a lot going on there, and. And that got a lot more attention than elicited, unfortunately. But she is a brilliant goalkeeper. I've met her several times, watched her play, and she's got all the goods. And we've been very blessed with great goalkeeping here for the women's side for decades.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

Yeah, absolutely. Also, she's a PK saving machine listener.

[Brianna Scurry]

Yes, I know, exactly. Yeah, you can bank it, right. Yeah. She's going to save at least one, if not two. Yes.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

I think it's interesting, you know, in your new year, like, second half career. You know, you work with brands. You said you have more partnerships now. You, you've been part of a team and things like that. Have you had conversations with brands about the power of goalkeepers and, and telling their story? And, and like we said, I mean, if I was a brand and I was going to invest in a player, I would invest in a player who's going to be in that seat for 10 years. You know, you know, I'm saying, so have you had those conversations with brands?

[Brianna Scurry]

I have had those conversations not, not only with, with goalkeepers in general. I mean, I explained to them how goalkeeping is the foundation of a team. And at one point in time, if you go back in time and look at every single team that's won a world championship or Olympic championship, at one point in time in that run, the goalkeeper had the team on their shoulders. And so if you don't have strong defensive goalkeeping, then you're not going to win. That's just how it works. And so who better to have represent you? If you're a company that wants to talk about strength or teamwork or camaraderie or leadership, goalkeepers are all those things wrapped into one. And in my case, I feel like not only am I a goalkeeper, but I was also a trailblazer. And so I understand how to, how to literally blaze trails and make something there that was not there before. And so for me, I think the important thing too with goalkeepers is we tend to be rather cerebral in our ability to decide who goes where and shift our teammates in positions to be strong as a team. I mean, I feel like one of my greatest traits was my ability to communicate to my backs and put them in the right position for them to be successful. And so all these steps of success, these attributes of success are all the same whether you're on the pitch or in the boardroom.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

That was my conversation with hall of Fame goalkeeper Brianna Scurry. This is a special edition of the Bloomberg Business of sports podcast, the Business of Soccer. Up next, we'll hear from FC Dallas goalkeeper Martin Paas. I'm Vanessa Perdomo. This is Bloomberg.

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[Vanessa Perdomo]

You're listening to a special edition of the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast, the Business of Soccer. I'm Vanessa Perdomo. My next guest is MLS All Star goalkeeper Martin Pas. He joined us to discuss how he's used his position to build a business portfolio which includes his own glove line ownership into professional Padel and other emerging sports. We also discussed the growth of the MLS and how the league is positioned to skyrocket after the World Cup. Let's listen to my conversation with FC Dallas goalkeeper Martin Paz. First and foremost I want to get from you. When did you become a goalkeeper? At what point when you were playing the sport? Because I feel like at every point it's different for everyone.

[Martin Pas]

Yeah, it's very different for me than I think the usual. I was a striker until I was 15 and I was a futsal goalkeeper, indoor football goalkeeper before that and then I was a good striker. But when, when offside came into the game around the age of 11, I found out that I was a bit lazy to be honest, and I didn't want to run that much. And I lost the fun for being striker around that age, to be honest. But I was in the highest, like, team, so I wanted to, to keep my spot there. And then at 15, I became sort of like, yeah, very lazy striker. Didn't want to go to practices anymore. Wasn't, yeah, particularly obsessed. And then my coach came to me and he said, like, Luke, every time we practice and you're put into go, I see you really enjoying it. And I, I see you not enjoying being a striker. And then I, I took like a gamble. I took a chance, like, let's do it. Let's, let's put the gloves on and let's try the year. There was an open spot at the highest team of my amateur club. And then I developed so quickly from that. And then, yeah, within two years I was playing for my national team for age group all there. So that was like, very surrealistic a little bit. And yeah, but that's the way how it started.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

That's really interesting. Do you know, it's interesting because I feel like I said like, everyone has their own sort of place with it. But I do think when I talk to a lot of people at the highest level, goalkeepers at the highest level, it's almost. Oh yeah, I kind of found it later. But the athleticism really like helped you, you know, so it helps. So you would say that it helped you love the game of soccer again, finding the position?

[Martin Pas]

Yeah, for sure, for sure. I was definitely not enjoying it anymore. And then since I put the gloves on, I was asking for practices. I went to train with under 70s on the 19th and the first team right away. I practiced four times a day almost. My body didn't like it that much because the field was artificial turf and I got like, very like much hip problems and shoulder problems. But once I got settled in and yeah, I got used to it, I, I, I started to improve very fast. So, yeah, definitely, yeah, felt like I found my passion, find my obsession and then, yeah, I really was very keen on learning the little details to become better and better.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

What was it about the position for you that you fell in love with?

[Martin Pas]

I think I very have a big memory of the first time I found the love of goalkeeping and it was when I was still very young. There was the Euros, the European championships, and Holland played at that time Sweden, and it went to pks. And Edwin Van der Sar stopped the big pk and yeah, it was kind of my first big tournament that I watched as a kid and he was the hero and I was like, oh, I want to be like, like, like that guy. And I want to fly and, and yeah, make this beautiful saves. And then I remember every time I went into a pool, I went underneath the water and tried to like simulate the saves that, that he made. And then, yeah, and then, yeah, what I said, I became like futsal goalkeeper and outside field player. And then once I could make that more and more into to my lifestyle around the age of 15, yeah, I was, yeah, I was gone. And then, yeah, there was no one stopping me.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

I love that story. I love that story because also I fell in love with goalkeeping as well. Watching the US Women's National Team 1999. You know, penalty kick shootout. There's something, something about penalty kick shootouts that I don't know if other people enjoy it maybe as much as goalkeepers do, but I love, I love watching them. I love watching keepers make the saves because it's. We're not supposed to, right? But when you do, it's. It's amazing, no?

[Martin Pas]

Yeah. I think it's the only moment in games where the pressure is on the kicker and not on a goalkeeper and we have everything to win. So. Yeah, I always love, love penalty shootouts, especially when I'm playing them myself.

[Hiscox Insurance Representative]

Right.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

Yeah, same. So I have a lot of, I have a lot of colleagues also. Like who? Their, their daughters are goalkeepers right now they're a little bit younger and they're, they're not like loving it. It's like rotation kind of a thing and they're go, you know, well, I don't love it. So when you talk to, you know, do you work with younger goalkeepers? Do you try and, you know, work with people, younger kids, to really get them passionate about being a goalkeeper?

[Martin Pas]

For sure, for sure. I think one of the most important things nowadays is that you try every position and see what you really like. I think, like, if you're young, playing outfield is very important, especially nowadays with how the position progressed, with having to play with your feet. We're almost extra central defender too, in building out from the back. So it's very important. Even doing other sports than soccer can really help you, I think, to become a better goalkeeper and just really go out there and try to enjoy, try to not put as much pressure on yourselves as possible. But yeah, make sure you enjoy and then see what position you enjoy the most. And if that's goalkeeping, then, and you have a big dream, then don't be afraid to take all the necessary steps to become professional. And yeah, don't be afraid to ask for people like me. We're always open to give advice. But I think one of the biggest things is don't put too much pressure on yourself. And especially nowadays with social media and everything, yeah, we're getting judged very easily. So yeah, stick to your own path, don't get distracted and keep going.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

It's definitely interesting. It's a hard thing obviously to not put that pressure on yourself like you said in this age of social media. But I remember when I fell in love with goalkeeper, it was because I noticed that the only people who got their names in the paper were the people who scored and the ones who saved the goals. And I was like, I kind of like that. I like having my name in the paper like that. So I think that there's still that element to it, right, that you don't want to put the pressure on yourself. But there is, there's so much pressure on, on being a goalkeeper and you're the hero or the scapegoat, you know, in, in this, this world. And it's really hard to navigate that sometimes, especially if you're younger. But how do you navigate that, you know, in your career?

[Martin Pas]

I think there's more and more appreciation nowadays for goalkeepers. It used to be not so much appreciation, but yeah, I think now with how the game progressed, we're very big part of the game now and it's not the least athletic guy going goal. Because that's how it used to be. Right. But I think now there's becoming more appreciation but there's still this stigma of like, hey, you're a goalkeeper. So we're almost like a different, like a different sport and the different people because we also practice for half of the time different from the big group and then we come together for like finishing or, or small sided games or whatever. But I think, yeah, just look, all single details matter. We have to be nearly perfect and you're not going to be perfect all the time as a goalkeeper. And like I'm not seeking highlights maybe or the headlines as a striker is for me, if nobody talks about me, probably I did a really good job. And also for me, if I put my defenders in a position to defend the goal so good that I don't need to come into action. I think that's one of the keys, right? Communication, being a leader. From the back we can see the whole field. So I think that's one of our major tasks. And I think if you let the game come to you and you didn't done all the necessary stuff, then you will be there and you also get headlines. But I think if you're looking for headlines, that's where mistakes gonna come. So I think, yeah, just try to avoid seeking for saves or looking for saves because the game's gonna come to you anyways. And when you come and look for it, that's where most of the mistakes are gonna go.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

Yeah, I love what you said there too, about what you can do when you're not even in the play. Right. It's about communication, it's about leadership, it's about all of those things. And I want to get into that a little bit more and especially when we're talking about the business side of it and we're talking the business side of being a goalkeeper. And then I want to talk about your investments and how that mindset really goes into, you know, your business mindset. Well, let's talk a little bit about the business of being a goalkeeper. You know, you had mentioned there that you think, you know, that it's gotten better maybe with, you know, over time people have more appreciation for it, but it still feels like maybe there isn't as much marketability opportunity or the leagues haven't done as much, you know, to really recognize the stars of a goalkeeper. You know, I'm interested to hear your take on that, especially as an MLS all star. You know, how you feel about the way that goalkeepers are giving marketability opportunities and things like that in, in today's game.

[Martin Pas]

Yeah, it's funny because one of the things that when I become professional or became professional was at the beginning all the big, like Adidas and Nike, they will give everyone big sponsorships. Right. And then after three years they cut some budget and then they only signed attackers and midfielders anymore and they didn't sign goalkeepers and defenders anymore because they weren't marketable enough. So I think that's a great example of, yeah, who's getting the headlines and where's the business. But I think, yeah, it also, it is, it is a responsibility that you have to take yourself nowadays because I think social media is a blessing and a curse. But you have to go out there and put some action for yourself because I think everyone loves to see beautiful saves and, and see, yeah, all that spectacular action. But if it's not put out there, then nobody's gonna see it. Right. So I think maybe we need to do a little bit more action in, in this case to become more marketable, etc. But, and luckily I've built a good team around me now that that is doing that. But yeah, I think definitely we need to grind a little bit harder because the brands first look at the striker, then look at the midfielder and probably then come to the defenders and goalkeepers.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

Right. And I feel like when it comes to that, it's because you've done something goalkeepers or defenders on the world stage, typically that really can't be ignored by, by big brands. Right. I'm thinking of Iker Casillas and Gianluigi Buffon who, like, everybody knows who they are, right. And they had glove deals and things like that. And I know you have a deal with gloves and I want to hear more about that and how that really came to be for you. But when you're playing on the international stage, do you see that difference than playing on like the league side?

[Martin Pas]

Yeah, I think like the top goalkeepers, they're always going to get their deals, right. And like with the bigger companies, it's not only a globe deal, it's a full barrel deal with boots, with, with clothes, with gloves. It's almost like a package deal. And with that comes also exclusivity. So you also can't do anything with any other clothing deal or any other shoe deal because you're committed to one side. And I think if you look at the biggest stars, they will all have the Adidas or the Nike or those deals. And then if you look at one tier below, that then becomes sort of like a free market. Right. So, yeah, it's been, it's been very interesting. I think the goalkeeper glove business has been a little bit like behind in the way how we are, how we have been looking at it. And that's why I think I'm very, yeah, I'm very enthusiastic about my new deal because we did it sort of in like a new way, I believe, which is very futuristic and I think it's the future.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

Can you elaborate on that?

[Martin Pas]

Yeah, skin in the game, like literally. So, yeah, I'm very happy with how I did it and I think I want to set an example for goalkeepers how we can do.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

Yeah. Can you elaborate a little bit on that? How the deal came together, how you feel like it's new, unique and trying to change that market a little bit.

[Martin Pas]

Yeah, for sure. So my old glove deal was expiring 1st of June this summer and me and my agent were looking and we had several offers, we were talking with it and then this company came about called Karma and they approached me and said like, hey, Martin, we want to take you in the whole process and you can build your own glove with us. And then I was like, whoa, that's super interesting. And then I said, but I want to have one. I want to have one like remark. I want to invest in the company to have skin in the game and help grow the company. So then we did a deal where it was like, yeah, also a little bit of equity extra because I have a big following, for example, and I could build my own signature glove similar to how basketball players, for example, do it with their Nike shoe deal, etc. So that was super cool. And for me, it was also really cool to see the process, how the gloves are built, what type of material are putting into the gloves, because a majority of the gloves, they are built with very chemical products, and we want to do it as clean as possible with a lot of natural products. And then. Yeah. What type of latex are you using? What type of fit are you using? What is the thumb? What is the strap? What is the design on the back? I could personalize them my own way. And that was just super, super cool.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

That's awesome. And to get a little bit into the nerdy detail for me, what are those things that you need in your gloves to, like, you feel like, help you perform the most?

[Martin Pas]

Yeah, I think first and foremost, the fit. I like kind of a tighter fit where you feel warm with the glove and then it comes with, like, the grip. Of course, that's. That's the thing, what we always struggle with, especially here in the Texas heat in the summer, it's gonna be very slippery. So you have to have a very, very good grip and a grip that can handle. Yeah. Wetness of the grass, sweat, and even the cold. Sometimes those are stuff that some people don't think about, but you have to really conscious about, especially if it gets super slippery. Right. So those things super important for me. And then I love to look good with the gloves, too. Match it with my boots, and it makes you just a little bit more confident. Maybe a little bit similar to a haircut or something like that.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

Oh, yeah, It's. It's all about the fit. It's the first thing I, you know, you. You feel. You feel real, like, good when you put it on. I was also always a person. I had to wear long sleeves no matter what. I could never. I can't do a short sleeve keeper. I can't do it. I want to talk about how your mindset as a goalkeeper has affected the way you do business and, and how those are one and the same.

[Martin Pas]

That's a good Question. I believe I. I invest in really the things that I'm passionate about. I'm passionate about goalkeeping. I'm passionate about Padel, this record sport where I'm really, really passionate about and I've really big hopes for, especially in the US because it's still early stage. I'm passionate about golf. I'm passionate about healthy food and the stuff that we put into our body. So I think I'm always. And that's what I learned from choosing to be a goalkeeper. What are you passionate about? And if you're passionate about that, it's gonna feel organic. And yeah, it's very easy to help and grow the market because you're super passionate about it and you're noticing the problems that you have in those markets. Right. So I think, yeah, go after your feeling and if you feel passionate about that subject and you can. It's in your personal values and you think, hey, this could be. Could really? Yeah. Suit with my personal brand. I think you should just go for it. And yeah, that's how I've been doing my portfolio, especially on the business side. Where am I passionate about? What is a hobby of mine where I can roll in this company very easily and make it organic and not like, hey, I'm selling you all this project in a, In a. In a video that is. Yeah. Not. Not for me. So I think that's one of the key things for me, finding stuff that I'm very passionate about and that organic. Organically grows with my brand.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

So do you play Padel?

[Martin Pas]

Yes. Yeah, in this season, it's very hard to play it because I feel it very quick on my knees. If we have three games in a week, and then in the off day, I'm gonna play Padel, so I need to take a little bit care of the body. I also just came back from. From a big muscle injury on my hamstring, so. But now the off season is approaching and the only thing I'm gonna play is Fidel in the off season. So that's great. And I think it's also great just for. For hand. Eye coordination. Yeah. I think what I told you already, also for kids to play other sports sometimes can benefit your sport a lot. I. I know Courtois played volleyball on almost a professional level. And you can see it on the way, how he's parrying ball sometimes that he played Vol. And I'm sure some goalkeepers played handball better check. Played ice hockey, which. Which benefited him. So I think those things can be. Yeah. Really beneficial too.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

Lastly, I Want to talk to you a little bit about the mls. You've played here for a while now and I want to, you know, hear about what it's been like to play here in the US and see now that the World Cup's around the corner, have you seen it grow? You know. So what has it been like playing in Dallas?

[Martin Pas]

Good question. I came here in 2022 when the end of COVID in Holland, there was still a lockdown and I came here and it was opening up, especially in Texas it was opening up. And then yeah, I kind of, I first went on a six month loan, kind of. Do I like the club? Does the club like me? Those were two major questions. And then I had a clause in my, in my agreement where if I played an X amount of games they would trigger the buy option. And then after six, seven games, but the club came to me and they said we're gonna trigger the, the option no matter what. So that gave a lot of confidence to me. And then yeah, in, in the first four years played over 150, I think around 150 games in the MLS now or in total for FC Dallas with, with all the other competitions. Became captain this year, became an MLS all star. Won the save of the season last year and yeah, just established myself here in the league as, yeah, as a good goalkeeper and then, yeah, now learning how the leadership stuff too. And I think also what, what people don't take into account that this is one of the hardest leagues in terms of travel. So yesterday I came home at 5am from Vancouver after our playoff game and then sometimes we play two days later again. And I think if you're not a professional here, you're gonna struggle a lot. So you need to dedicate everything to your, to put the right things into your body to recover as fast as possible and to also get the mind ready again because there's going to be fatigue, especially in the summer here when Texas heat is around the corner and you go to the altitude in Colorado you go to the humidity, humidness. In, in Houston or in Miami you go to the cold in March. In Toronto you play in, in the snow. So there's all these yeah facets in, in this league where, where you really have to be adaptable to whatever climate you're going into or whatever fatigue you're feeling. I also play national team for, in Southeast Asia, for Indonesia, my grandmother's from there. So that travel also comes into play with me. So for me it's a lot about healthy food, sleeping the right ways and yeah, getting a lot of treatments and stuff like that to every time get myself ready for the game. So yeah, it's not an easy league to play in a lot of and it's transitioning now a lot since I came here from like a retirement league into development league. So there's more and more young players signed here to develop them and to become a star player here instead of buying like players who are close to retirement and building them up as market value. So I think there's, it's very interesting. But now with the World cup coming, yeah, you've seen a big, big skyrocketing in attention with Messi, of course coming, it was a big, big deal for the league. So you see all this stuff and I think soccer becomes more and more one of the main sports here in the US which is a very good development.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

That was my conversation with FC Dallas and Indonesian national team goalkeeper Martin Paz and that does it for this edition of the Business of Soccer. It's part of a new series we're starting on the Bloomberg Business of Sports as we get ready for the FIFA World cup in 2026. I'm Vanessa Perdomo. Subscribe now so you never miss an episode. You're listening to the Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio around the world.

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