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Bloomberg Business of Sports
MLB Pitchers Charged in a New Betting Scheme; Serena Williams at the American Business Forum
00:39:04
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- [00:00]
Michael Barr
The FIFA World Cup 26 is coming to North America. Get closer to where business meets the beautiful game with a hospitality package featuring premium seats and entertainment. Get closer to wins on and off the pitch. Register interest@hospitality.com Interest support for the show.
- [00:20]
Public.com Advertiser
Comes from public.com you're thoughtful about where your money goes. You've got your core holdings, some recurring crypto buys, maybe even a few strategic option plays on the side. The point is, you're engaged with your investments and Public gets that. That's why they built an investing platform for those who take it seriously. On public you can put together a multi asset portfolio for the long haul. Stocks, bonds, options, crypto. It's all there plus an industry leading 3.6% APY high yield cash account. Switch to the platform built for those who take investing seriously. Go to public.com market and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com market paid for by Public Investing. All investing involves the risk of loss, including loss of principal brokerage services for U.S. listed registered securities options and bonds in a self directed account are offered by Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC. Crypto trading provided by ZeroHash Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures Introducing the all.
- [01:20]
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- [02:00]
Randall Williams
Sports are the greatest unscripted show on earth.
- [02:04]
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- [02:06]
Randall Williams
Up with tech and believe in tech.
- [02:07]
Vanessa Perdomo
Your face is your ticket.
- [02:08]
Danny Berger
Your face is your wallet. Your face is your access to a club.
- [02:12]
Gianluca Passi de Preposolo
These are such iconic and important buildings for businesses.
- [02:15]
Randall Williams
For fans, Covid was one of the.
- [02:17]
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Best things that ever happened to golf.
- [02:19]
Randall Williams
The NFL is a bulletproof business.
- [02:21]
Danny Berger
Racing's unique because there is absolutely no reason why we can't compete with the guys.
- [02:25]
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Come on, is pro pickleball real? Are people really going to tune into this?
- [02:28]
Randall Williams
If you're playing Moneyball with a huge bag of money, you're gonna be really, really good.
- [02:32]
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Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio Hello.
- [02:37]
Michael Barr
This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports where we explore the big money issues in the world of sports. I'm Michael Barr.
- [02:44]
Damian Sassenhower
I'm Damian Sassenhower.
- [02:45]
Vanessa Perdomo
And I'm Vanessa Perdomo.
- [02:47]
Michael Barr
Coming up on the show, we'll hear from tennis superstar Serena Williams. She was speaking with Bloomberg TV anchor Danny Berger at the American Business Forum in Miami recently about her business interests off the court.
- [03:02]
Serena Williams
The new modern athlete. If you think about it, the modern athlete, if they're only playing their sport, then now that's frowned upon.
- [03:10]
Michael Barr
True.
- [03:10]
Serena Williams
So I love seeing the difference of how it started versus how, you know, people look at sport as an athlete.
- [03:17]
Vanessa Perdomo
Now we'll hear a little bit of their conversation about how Serena is channeling her competitive spirit into investing.
- [03:23]
Michael Barr
All that and more is on the way on the Bloomberg Business of Sports. But first, we've got another big betting scandal, this time involving two big league pitchers.
- [03:34]
Vanessa Perdomo
Joining us to discuss the latest is Bloomberg US Sports business reporter Randall Williams. Randall, welcome to the Bloomberg Business of Sports.
- [03:41]
Randall Williams
Thank you for having me, man.
- [03:43]
Michael Barr
There's a lot of topics to talk about, but let's start with the elephant in the room, and that involves the MLB pitchers, and they've been charged in a gambling probe. Let's start off with that. This is very severe.
- [03:57]
Randall Williams
Yeah, it's, I mean, the criminal sin, the cardinal sin of all the sports now is betting on it. And the fact that these guys are millionaires betting for thousands, it just never ceases to amaze me the, the fact that they're willing to sacrifice their entire careers and relatively young guys as well. It isn't something where it's like, you know, these are failed careers. They had their entire careers ahead of them. And now it doesn't look like it anymore.
- [04:22]
Michael Barr
To Cleveland guardian pitchers Luis Ortiz and Emmanuel Classe. They were charged with fraud for allegedly manipulating their pitches in Major League baseball games.
- [04:33]
Vanessa Perdomo
Vanessa, it's just, it's really obviously crazy because after we just saw the NBA scandal just happen and this, they're so close together, these two indictments. Randall, what does that say? I mean, does that then put now a lot more pressure that these two things happen so close together?
- [04:48]
Randall Williams
I think it puts both leagues under the microscope, I think, of the sports that you can bet on, baseball and basketball are the ones that you can manipulate the most easy. Just because of the fact that, I mean, in John Tay Porter's case, you remember he was like a 10th to 15th man on the, on the bench. And so the lines that he was being bet on were very easily. He could just check in and check out of the game. The same thing with some of the allegations with Terry Rozier and others as well. And in baseball, like, they're literally betting on balls and strikes. And so you would think if you're watching the game, like, you don't think anything of it, but the fact that they made allegedly $450,000 off of these things and, and in the NBA case was. Was millions of dollars that that was going on and around. It's crazy.
- [05:33]
Damian Sassenhower
Randall, I mean, really, what could go. What worse could go wrong for Cleveland fans? I mean, the Browns just lost to the jets. You know, I mean, we know the Guardians, formerly the Indians, were the butt of Major League Baseball. Bob Euchre, Lauren, you know, the Cavaliers aren't getting by the Knicks. And here's my question for you. Rosier and Phillips, Chauncey Billups, who were also accused from the NBA, they denied wrongdoing. Now you've got Classe and Ortiz also denying wrongdoing. Have we seen any of the government's evidence to support their case against these players? Or I mean, speculating here, but perhaps they're relying on some false testimony from some Costa Nostra representative. I'm just speculating here, but I mean, how reliable is all this?
- [06:11]
Randall Williams
Let's start with the NBA. There's 30 plus people involved. And so we'll see what happens when this, when it occurs in court. On the MLB side, I read the entire case and they have text, they have exchanges from when the pitchers were on the mound and off the mound. And so if you're asking me my opinion, the pictures are done. I mean, it's very damning evidence that is in the federal indictment. And with that in mind, I think the NBA one, I think we'll have to see a little bit more. But I mean, the way that FBI director Cash Patel came to the podium and all of these little catchphrases that they're using in celebration of this, I mean, I think you don't really roll out the red carpet that way unless you ready for a show. And so who knows when all of these cases will hit the courts, but when they do, we'll be reporting on.
- [06:59]
Vanessa Perdomo
It during the game. That's the craziest.
- [07:02]
Randall Williams
Right after. Right after. So he. There's a portion in the indictment where he attempted to throw a ball. It went straight into the dirt. And if you're hearing this, I'm laughing because of the fact that when he threw the ball straight into the dirt, the batter swung at it. And so the person that he was communicating with, texted him. And I think they said like, maybe it was like a cat gif. That was him crying, a cat gif of crying emoji or something like that. But with that in mind, he went to the locker room and texted him. And they were both sort of sad about the fact that they did not cash in. So those sort of that communication there. I don't know how these pictures can beat it.
- [07:39]
Vanessa Perdomo
I mean, doesn't this just say that prop bets need to be really regulated? Like Adam Silver said after the NBA scandal had happened, we need to regulate prop bets in general. Should prop bets just go away?
- [07:53]
Randall Williams
I think it depends on the prop bets. Like in college football in New York, you can't bet on players at all in this. And like, if you wanted to bet on yards for Arch Manning, it does not exist. In the NBA and the NFL, you can bet on. In the mlb, you can bet on a wide portion of things. I don't know how the leagues are going to talk to the sports gambling, the sports books and say, hey, this needs to go away. That needs to go away because the sports books are in the business of making money too. And nine times out of 10, they would. They want people to gamble.
- [08:25]
Damian Sassenhower
Randall, A house committee says that it is going to bring in commissioner Adam Silver about the league's kind of, you know, the prolific proliferation of sports betting, how the league's handling it. And I think what they're. They're trying to do is to get the NBA code of conduct modified. And my question for you is, what the heck is that going to do? I mean, how would they modify the code of conduct? Do players even listen to the code of conduct? And will it deter future infractions?
- [08:50]
Randall Williams
I'm not so sure. I think that all of the agencies, the nbpa, the NBA, they discourage betting amongst the players. I'm sure that there are courses that they take or lectures that they sit through. And yet it still happens, probably because they think they can get away with it. Now, like I said when I started this, which is that these guys make millions and millions and millions of dollars. You think about it from like, let's just say Victor Wembanyama was involved in one of these. He is not, but his rookie contract is like $56 million. There's no amount of money that he's going to make on betting that would not get flagged. So what? Any additional cash that they make is just sort of silly.
- [09:29]
Damian Sassenhower
Well, Randall, let me ask you this. I mean, what if they do find Chauncey Billups guilty. If they find Ortiz and Kase guilty, I mean, can the NBA or in the Major League Baseball, can they reclaim some of their contract that's already been paid? Can they countersue them and get some sort of monetary benefit from that? I mean, is there any risk there?
- [09:51]
Randall Williams
I'd be interested to see if they would take that approach. But my gut tells me that if they were convicted of this, then the NBA would just let the NBA and MLB would just let the feds deal with it and then just push it away. Because the more that you try to recoup some of this, I'm not sure what they have to gain from these things. Like you would rather just push both of all of the people who are allegedly involved as far into the corner so that they're out of sight rather than being like, no, we want our thousands of dollars back when you have billions coming in from a media deal. You see what I'm saying?
- [10:23]
Vanessa Perdomo
They want to wash their hands.
- [10:24]
Randall Williams
Yeah, right, exactly.
- [10:25]
Damian Sassenhower
I mean, I guess we'll know if Classe doesn't come back from his vacation in the Dominican Republic.
- [10:30]
Serena Williams
Right.
- [10:30]
Damian Sassenhower
I mean, men will know what he would know.
- [10:32]
Danny Berger
But.
- [10:32]
Damian Sassenhower
I'm just kidding. I mean, but like that isn't that a real risk that some of these players are going to say, oh, I was wrongfully accused and you know, I'm not coming back to the United States because you know, they're going to take my. I mean, you know, how are they going to get any sort of, you know, I guess, I guess how are you going to kind of find enough evidence to really hold these players feet to the fire?
- [10:51]
Randall Williams
I think there's more than enough evidence in the indictment.
- [10:54]
Damian Sassenhower
Yeah.
- [10:55]
Michael Barr
On.
- [10:55]
Randall Williams
For both of the pitchers. I think the text exchanges that are in there are just damning.
- [11:01]
Vanessa Perdomo
I think that's more of a question. Right. It's more of a question like if it was just the NBA and MLB investigations and then they were banned, that would be one thing. And then the players would be able to say more on it. But then the federal government gets involved in an entirely different exact story.
- [11:16]
Michael Barr
By the way, this blew me away. If you want an idea on how college sports has changed juju Watkins, she's with the University of Southern California women's basketball superstar. She has bought a minority stake in the NWSL's Boston legacy. That you would never hear anything like that years ago, back when Woody Hayes or whoever was coaching football or any kind of sports. Yeah.
- [11:50]
Randall Williams
It doesn't necessarily surprise me because juju Watkins has a great team in clutch sports surrounding her. But I believe that she's the first college athlete to ever have a sports team ownership. And with that in mind, I mean, look, this is all powered by endorsements and she's managed her money very well so that this opportunity could come about. And it's crazy. I mean people were really interested in this story. I think it's one of the most read stories I've ever had at Bloomberg.
- [12:15]
Vanessa Perdomo
That's the interesting thing that I remember you saying about. Why do you think it was? Is it the juju of it all? Is it the fact that it is, like Michael said, this unbelievable thought that a college player could own a team?
- [12:27]
Randall Williams
Yes. And I think I have fabulous editors. No, I think that there is an interest in college sports ownership, period. I mean, if you can have enough money to invest in a sports franchise, people don't think of it that way. Like, oh yeah, they're in college, they're kids. But then when you talk about how much money that some of these people are making, especially on like the women's basketball side of things, I think that it's shocking that the first person wasn't Caitlin Clark. And if it was not a woman at all, then you would have, your first guess probably would have been Shador Sanders or Arch Manning or any of the college football players who have been incredibly popular. Your last guess, or maybe not last guess, but you would not have guessed juju Watkins first. And with that in mind, I mean she's done, like I said, incredibly well. She has multiple brand deals with Nike and so many others that are within the story. I mean she has so many that I can't remember them all off the top of my head. And now she is an NWSL Boston Legacy FC owner. So congrats to Juju.
- [13:25]
Damian Sassenhower
Yeah, I mean it's pretty unbelievable. I'm sure we're going to hear, you know, you know, more examples of this happening, right? Michael Barr. I mean college players, I mean they are deep pocketed now for sure.
- [13:34]
Randall Williams
Oh yeah, I think potentially. But it depends on, you have to have an ownership group that wants to do this to begin with. And with that in mind, like you look at how much WNBA teams are going for and will. I don't even know if the rules will allow that. Like let's say you're a basketball player, you're a WNBA player and you want to, or excuse me, a college basketball player, the rules might not allow that. This is a very specific case of NWSL that would allow it. And from the college football side of things. It would be the exact same things. What actually can you buy with your money in college that is not going to violate any of the leagues that you're trying to get into their rules.
- [14:13]
Vanessa Perdomo
So the reality is what should be bought into in the assets that are going to be valuable are the NWSL and maybe women's volleyball. And they wouldn't really.
- [14:23]
Randall Williams
You have to have the right college.
- [14:25]
Vanessa Perdomo
Football players as an owner.
- [14:26]
Randall Williams
Exactly. Exactly. So congrats to Juju again.
- [14:30]
Michael Barr
Our thanks to Bloomberg US Sports Business reporter Randall Williams for joining us again. Up next, we turn to sailing and talk to Red Bull Italy Sail GP team chairman and co owner Gianluca Passi? D Preposal For Damian Sassauer and Vanessa Perdomo, I'm Michael Barr. You're listening to the Bloomberg Business of Sports Bloomberg Radio around the World The FIFA World Cup 26 is coming to North America next summer. It's the ultimate celebration of sports and culture and an opportunity to elevate your company. Get closer to where business meets the beautiful game with a premium hospitality package. Build partnerships in the best seats and suites. Achieve goals over world class food and beverage. Get closer to wins on and off the pitch. Register interest@hospitality.FIFA.com interest support for the show.
- [15:30]
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- [16:28]
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- [17:45]
Michael Barr
Is the Bloomberg Business of Sports where we explore the big money issues in the world of sports. I'm Michael Barr.
- [17:51]
Vanessa Perdomo
Damian Sassnauer and I'm Vanessa Perdomo.
- [17:53]
Michael Barr
Let's talk sailing. The Sail GP season is winding down this month and joining us now to talk about the sport and the big money going into it to Red Bull Italy Sail GP team chairman and co owner Gianluca Pazzi Dill Preposalo and his team is just wrapping up its first season. Gianluca, hello my man. Welcome to the Bloomberg Business of Sports.
- [18:20]
Gianluca Passi de Preposolo
Thank you so much for having me here today.
- [18:23]
Michael Barr
This is, I love this man. This is here's why Larry Ellison co founded the latest which you guys are with with Sail GP because the America's cup only goes every four years. This is every year, correct.
- [18:44]
Gianluca Passi de Preposolo
So like obviously we've been like very lucky to have to be in a sport that has such a deep history. You have to consider that Americans cup is the third oldest sport competition in the world after the Olympics and Royal Ascot. 176 years of age history. But the issue there and what Larry Elizon understood and capitalized on was that the Americans cup is every four years in the middle. There was nothing else in terms of sailing competition. And so there were like millions of people across the world incredibly passionate about sailing that were left basically orphan after each American's cup. And was not only that what Mr. Ellison understood, it was also the fact that he could start a new league getting the best ideas from all the sports league out there. And that's how the project started in 2019 with together with Russell Coutts and now we're only in the fifth season, but we're very excited for the future of this league.
- [20:18]
Michael Barr
And Vanessa, you know, you got a name like Larry Ellison, co founder of Oracle. You know, this is going to be a success.
- [20:24]
Vanessa Perdomo
Oh, you know, you know, and he, he's put a lot of passion and a lot of money into this because he, like you said, he knows that there, there's this audience there that's fervent for something every year. So you said this is the fifth season, but you guys are in your first season, the Italian team. Tell me how it's been coming into this, how you're working with Jimmy and how you really got into this sailing venture for yourself.
- [20:48]
Gianluca Passi de Preposolo
Absolutely. So, dear friend of mine for 20 years, Asia Grazioli, reach out to me. Both Asi and I, we are investor which have our own fund. But she had amazing background in sports. She's been on the board of Juventus for nine years. And when she started her fund, Muse Capital, she started investing in women sports. And she reached out to me. This was about two years ago. She told me about this league and there is a background story between us because we've been friends, as I said, many, many years. But only about three years ago, she was visiting my hometown, Treviso in Italy. I was not there, but it was like saying hi to my parents. And the office of my father was a picture on the wall with him on. On a sailing boat, black and white picture from many years before. And she asked, what's this picture about? Well, my father goes, well, this picture, it's me in the first wheatbread race, race around the World, 1973. And she look at him and said, well, my father also did the first wheatbread race in 1971. It ended up that our two father were on the same boat, but in two different legs of the race.
- [22:33]
Serena Williams
Wow.
- [22:33]
Michael Barr
Wow.
- [22:34]
Gianluca Passi de Preposolo
So my father did port move to Cape Town just to give a context. It was like 43 days of sailing without touching lens. It was like unthinkable right now nowadays and without many instruments. Her father, if I'm not wrong, she did like Rio de Janeiro to Sydney. And so we. They never met. We basically have them meet last year at SailGP where we didn't have yet the team, but it was incredible connection.
- [23:16]
Serena Williams
Yeah.
- [23:16]
Gianluca Passi de Preposolo
And so that was the first spark. She called me to invest in the US team. When Marc Lazari with Avenue Capital decided to buy the team. My comment was that I was interested in the league at the same time. I would have loved to see if Larry Ellison and Russell Coutts, basically we're going to launch an Italian team.
- [23:49]
Damian Sassenhower
Well, Gianluca, let me just chime in here. We keep mentioning Larry Ellison and we keep mentioning people like Mark Lasry, but I'm going to go even further. I mean the Bonds flying ruse, Hugh Jackman and Ryan Reynolds. Kylian Mbappe I believe is an owner of the French team, Sebastian Vettel, the German team. I think Anne Hathaway is somehow involved with you and the Italian team. I mean these aren't just nobodies. Right. So it's commanding the attention of real investors and real people alike. And I just have to ask your question. You know, when you, when you're thinking about the growth of the league, right. And the league right now has 12 teams, you know, 12 countries effectively represented and I don't know how many races there are but I mean it's pretty much, you know, been going on all year. We're building to Abu Dhabi at the end of November. Talk to us about the excitement around this final match. I mean how many teams are left in it? Who are you, you know, who do you think is going to win the league this year? I mean it's pretty unbelievable.
- [24:41]
Gianluca Passi de Preposolo
Yeah, it's pretty tight. There are like three teams. UK team, New Zealand team and Australia team. The Black Foils. Yeah, they are like the Spanish team are just a little bit behind but it's going to be a tight like finish like last race of the year.
- [25:05]
Damian Sassenhower
So what happens, you have the Saturday where all 12 teams participate but then only three teams.
- [25:10]
Gianluca Passi de Preposolo
Well basically there are like four race on Saturday and then for race Sunday also very important to say is a very short format. So it's 15 minutes per race back to back. And then on Sunday there is the final in particular in Abu Dhabi is going to be the season final for with the last three teams and they're going to compete for the big prize that is $2 million.
- [25:39]
Serena Williams
Wow.
- [25:40]
Damian Sassenhower
So that grand final race is a winner take all between three teams if I'm not mistaken. I mean that is exciting stuff. Yeah, I mean unbelievable.
- [25:47]
Gianluca Passi de Preposolo
And yeah, to basically add what you just said that the, these concentration also of talents from ad, from entertainment, from sports. Again it was because when you look at this league there are few characteristics that make it very unique and first of all very center on make the team profitable in the short term, which you guys know very well. It's a very, it's a big challenge for sports team to, to create that.
- [26:20]
Michael Barr
Now I want to explain very quickly the teams that are in the lead, the emirates there at 85. The black foils at 82. The bonds flying roos at 80.
- [26:34]
Damian Sassenhower
Love that name.
- [26:35]
Michael Barr
And I love. That is pretty good. But now, unfortunately, you guys are out of it because you guys are in 10th place. But I have to ask, and I'm not trying to embarrass the United States team, how do you get negative four on the board? I mean, what did they like go backwards or something or what happened? How do you score negative 4?
- [26:58]
Gianluca Passi de Preposolo
We're negative because you can get a lot of the penalties during the race for many different reasons. And well, the US Team, you know, is, you know, the, the ownership of Mark Lazar is also pretty recent to two and a half years. And it takes time. Like people don't realize from outside these are the most difficult sailing boats to drive in the world. And you know, for it, it takes like at least two or three season especially for a new team to perform. At best, because you need, you have six people on the boat and everyone needs to be very coordinated at the same time. You're flying on the water at, you know, 60 miles an hour.
- [27:51]
Michael Barr
And I'm not trying to embarrass the United States team, but it just did.
- [27:54]
Damian Sassenhower
A great job of it.
- [27:55]
Randall Williams
Michael Blanchard.
- [27:55]
Michael Barr
But I saw the scoring and I'm like, and you have to understand I'm a big auto racing nut. I have never seen a negative for any driver when you're coming to the show. But because of the scoring system, like you said, that's the way it is. But it's, but it's going to be exciting.
- [28:14]
Vanessa Perdomo
I mean, it's definitely really exciting. Also, like you were mentioning how fast the boats go, but how big the boats are. I mean you really, you can't really see it until you're actually there in person. And the in person experience is really amazing. But one of the things I wanted to ask you about is when we're talking about the different teams is like you had mentioned, usa, Italy, Australia as a team, New Zealand has a team. There are all these different countries that are represented, but each team isn't necessarily only represented by athletes from that country. How do you think that is an advantage? Disadvantage when you have teams that are representing a country, but sometimes the drivers or people on the team aren't necessarily from there. Why isn't it not just, you know, team names, sponsors or whatever. Why is it important to have the nation represented?
- [28:58]
Gianluca Passi de Preposolo
Do you think There was one of the characteristics you can have obviously people from other nation, but you need to have at least like half of the team on board that is represent the country of the nationality of of the team the five characteristics that that's I want to talk about that that are the made unique the league are men and women on the same team. There are very few leagues that men and women compete in the same teams only one boat per nation. So that creates scarcity but also make the halo effect where you have all the people from the country like supporting their own team. Every boat is exactly the same by the millimeter like weight and all carbon fiber it's they're built in Southampton in England spectacular location around the world San Troperio de Janeiro, Abu Dhabi, Cadiz hopefully very soon in Italy and cap expense. That's the other the other characteristic.
- [30:16]
Vanessa Perdomo
Our thanks to Gianluca Passi de Proposolo for joining us. He's chairman and co owner of the Red Bull Italy SailGP team.
- [30:23]
Michael Barr
Up next we hear from tennis legend Serena Williams for Damien Sassour and Vanessa Perdomo. I'm Michael Barr. You are listening to the Bloomberg Business of Sports Bloomberg Radio around the world.
- [30:39]
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Damian Sassenhower
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- [33:19]
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This is Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio.
- [33:25]
Michael Barr
Thanks for joining us on the Bloomberg Business of Sports, where we explore the big money issues in the world of sports. I'm Michael Barr.
- [33:32]
Vanessa Perdomo
And I'm Vanessa Perdomo.
- [33:33]
Michael Barr
Nearly a decade after launching Serena Ventures, Serena Williams is channeling her competitive spirit into investing.
- [33:41]
Vanessa Perdomo
Bloomberg TV anchor Danny Berger recently got a chance to sit down with Serena at the American Business Forum in Miami. Let's take a listen to a little bit of their conversation.
- [33:50]
Serena Williams
I feel like I've always thought of me as a businesswoman. I think when it came to sport and when it came to things that I did in sport in particular, listen, my job was a business. You know, it wasn't for me just about going out there and hitting tennis balls and winning. Obviously, that was the biggest part of it. But it was also really about being a business, being an entrepreneur. And at the time when I was doing all this, there was lots of things and lots of people saying that you have to focus only on tennis, that you can't do other things. You can't have this other stuff. You can't, you can't be an entrepreneur. You can't think about other businesses. You really just have to do tennis. And I pushed that envelope and I said, you know what? That's not me. I am a kind of person. I was taught from an early age, actually from my father, that it was really important to have a plan B. I don't know if he thought that I would do decent in tennis or not. Maybe that's why he told me I needed a plan B. But that's something that kind of always stuck with me. And so when it came to what I wanted to do in sport, whether it was fashion or whether it was design or whether it was investing, it was something that was always going to be this entrepreneur and now the new modern athlete. If you think about it, the modern athlete, if they're only playing their sport, then now that's frowned upon.
- [35:10]
Damian Sassenhower
True.
- [35:11]
Serena Williams
So I love seeing the difference of how it started versus how, you know, people look at sport as an athlete now.
- [35:18]
Danny Berger
I mean, what a plan B? A lot of people spend all their lives even having that as their plan A. But when you decided to make it your plan A, when you announced in 2022 that you'd be stepping off the court, did you have any hesitation or any concerns about leaving tennis behind?
- [35:34]
Serena Williams
Absolutely. You know, my whole life has been tennis up until when I retired. And I always thought I actually never knew when it was going to happen. I always wanted to retire, but I actually never did it because it just wasn't realistic. Like my. Imagine growing up from as long as you can remember having a tennis racket in your hand, and then one day it's just done and it's. It's. You know, the thing is, you expect it from the moment you have that tennis racket in your hand, but you never really expect it until it's over. It's just this weird kind of weird feeling.
- [36:11]
Michael Barr
That's tennis legend Serena Williams speaking with our own Danny Burger recently in Miami at the American Business Forum.
- [36:18]
Vanessa Perdomo
For more about the event and that conversation with Serena, we welcome Bloomberg TV anchor Danny Burger.
- [36:23]
Michael Barr
Danny came back.
- [36:25]
Danny Berger
I couldn't resist.
- [36:27]
Michael Barr
Welcome back to the Bloomberg business of sports.
- [36:30]
Danny Berger
Thank you for having me, Michael.
- [36:31]
Michael Barr
You. You had Serena Williams on, and she laid some knowledge of, from playing tennis to being a very stout businesswoman. Tell us about that.
- [36:42]
Danny Berger
What an impressive person Serena Williams is. I started out by asking her this question of when did you think about yourself as a businesswoman? She was like, always, of course. I mean, this is someone who, when she was 16 years old, negotiated with her father, her own Puma sneaker endorsement deal. She started investing while she was still playing tennis. She tells this story about her walking to the center court at Wimbledon on the phone with an investor, and the investor being like, hey, hey, where Are you, by the way? And she was like, I was just about to go play at Wimbledon. But as with much of her life, a lot of it was formed and shaped by her dad. Anyone who's watched the excellent movie King Richard would know very well about this. And she said that her dad had always told her, you need a plan B. So very quickly, investing was her plan B. So she's been doing it for a while. She announced that she was stepping aside and retiring from tennis in 2022. So plan B becomes plan A, which, of course, is hilarious because people spend their entire lives hoping that investing is their plan A. And for her, it was like, kind of the backup retirement option.
- [37:46]
Michael Barr
Right.
- [37:46]
Vanessa Perdomo
Which is funny, because when you guys were talking, she kind of. You asked her about it, and you asked like, well, do people kind of say, you don't belong in this world because of. Exactly. We're saying people work their whole lives to be in it. And she just so happened to be in a position to join in this space as an athlete.
- [38:01]
Danny Berger
Yeah. And she said this thing that I thought was interesting, that athletes, maybe when she was doing it, were kind of looked down upon being like, why would you be investing? And now if you're an athlete, you got to have a side hustle. I mean, it feels like everybody does in this world, whether they're becoming investors or otherwise. I still think, though, it's become really hot for celebrities. And I should just say Serena Williams doesn't like to consider herself a celebrity, but I don't know what. Okay. Or at least she doesn't like to be called it. But let's say public figures, right? A lot of public figures are starting investment funds now. Snoop Dogg has one, Tom Brady has one, which, by the way, just bought a cleaning product from Pitbull called Clean Boss, for whatever that's worth. So there's all these things happening, and a lot of them haven't been successful. I mean, Kim Kardashian had her Sky Partners fund. They really struggled to raise money. They struggled to find anything to buy. So just by having a celebrity name on the door does not get you there. It doesn't mean that you're automatically going to get investors. And maybe even the opposite. People are skeptical of it. And I think Serena Williams is very cognizant of that and has surrounded herself with people that will lift her and help her do the work and is not just relying on her name to get things done.
- [39:14]
Michael Barr
There was a story that tickled me about Serena Williams, and of course, you know, she's Got these big old fat checks and she's going through the drive through of her bank to hand the check over to deposit. And the people at the bank are like, Mrs. Williams, you need to come in the bank. But it seems like there was a lot that you guys covered, especially about the new investments that she is getting into.
- [39:45]
Danny Berger
Yeah, she kind of talked about that. Everything she needs to feel personally passionate about. One thing that I, it did strike me is, I don't know if odds the right word, but telling of the moment. She said that all of the companies that she invests in need to have an AI plan. Which I'm going to be honest, feels odd for her VC fund because it is very kind of consumery companies. The whole idea behind it is it's investing for the 98%, so not the top 2%. So that means a lot of women, a lot of minorities, a lot of lower income people. Some of that I'm like, do these companies need an AI plan? But she said, yeah, she wants to hear an A plan from everyone coming in. And she considers herself a technophile. So she thinks about these things a lot. So that's kind of the area that she's thinking of pushing into. She's also been doing a lot of sports investing. It's something she's done for a while. She's had a stake in the Miami Dolphins for some time. She's also invested in a new Toronto WNBA team. I asked her the thesis behind it. Honestly, it kind of sounds like she was more or less just like, I know sports really well, so I know what I'm doing.
- [40:46]
Michael Barr
All right, well, I'm mad at the Miami Dolphins right now because they knocked out my Buffalo Bills in the.
- [40:50]
Danny Berger
Condolences.
- [40:51]
Michael Barr
Oh my good. My survivor pool. That. That wasn't supposedly. Okay, I'm shutting up now. Go ahead.
- [40:58]
Vanessa Perdomo
No, I think that one of the things that's interesting that you're talking about like when you talked about earlier was that she feels like everyone has to have a side hustle now. Or not her. But like in general, all athletes, they have a side hustle. But back when she started it, you didn't necessarily. It wasn't the norm. But also people weren't making as much money back then. People are making way more money now. Why do you think they need to have side hustles now or feel like they do?
- [41:21]
Danny Berger
Maybe it's just that the path has been paved for them. That there are many examples of athletes who have gone out and done this where before it wasn't really a thing. I mean, the way you made money was more the Michael Jordan model that you had endorsements and, and that's still the model, right, of, of, of, of a lot of these athletes making money. But you look, you know, at soccer and taking stakes in American soccer teams, you know, that's obviously very popular now for an emerging sport. You have Andre Agassi having a stake in pickleball everywhere you kind of look, it's not just about endorsements. It's about owning a piece of something or starting your own fund. But again, I would just say that starting funds at the moment, for these celebrities, it's a moment where private equity and private capital is really, really challenged. They're all really struggling to raise funds. So I think that is a more trying time for them. It used to be that anybody could start a fund and you have celebrity power, and that's awesome too. I think it's a little bit more difficult to do that at the moment. So a lot of people are still trying to do it because again, that path has been laid out for them. But I think it is getting more difficult for some of these celebrities to branch out into different side hustles, as it were.
- [42:30]
Michael Barr
So what I have learned from this interview is that I'm broke. And Serena Williams, and along with her husband, I mean, they, they were a dynamic duo.
- [42:42]
Danny Berger
Yeah. And maybe part of the problem is, is that one, you didn't have a father like Serena's father that made you do all these things or a mother like Serena Williams herself. One of my favorite parts of the interview I had with her that wasn't necessarily on what we just listened to. She talked about the fact that her daughter Olympia is interning for her and her father, who's the co founder of Reddit. Her daughter's 8 years old. I don't really know what an 8 year old is doing at a VC fund or at Reddit, but she was like, she's there during the year, she's interning at my fund. During the summer, she's interning with her dad. And I was like, oh, so you want her to be a businesswoman instead of tennis? And she was like, absolutely not. Tennis is so much cooler than business. I want her to be a tennis star, but she's also interning at the same time. By the way, Serena also said she still cooks for her kids, she still meal preps for them while she's away. She's also traveling to investor meetings nonstop. I don't know how anyone finds enough time in the day, but she somehow Does.
- [43:42]
Vanessa Perdomo
I don't know how anyone finds enough time in the day genuinely to do anything. Moms are the best people in the world, seriously. But the one thing that it's interesting about Alexis and Serena when they're introducing Olympia to these spaces is not now she's interning at their businesses, but she's also invested in their sports teams. She's a co owner of Angel City, I believe, and I'm assuming the WA WNBA Toronto team as well.
- [44:08]
Danny Berger
Yeah, yeah, she is. She, they have set her up to be an investor in this. I wonder how much of that is, you know, some tax benefits also to sort of set them up as an investor in that. But yeah, it's this idea of setting their children up for the long term. I mean, but just by having those two as your parents, I think you're set up for the long term whether or not you have investments in the sports teams.
- [44:27]
Michael Barr
Yeah. And what you said when you talk to Serena, it gives young women out there is like, well, hell, I want to do that. And I am so glad to hear those stories that you presented.
- [44:42]
Danny Berger
Yeah. And one of the great things she said when she talked about her daughter interning for her, she was like, I want my daughter to see impressive women doing impressive things. And I thought that was such a good message. Look, this is an industry where they're just not a lot of women. They're really not. You go to these conferences, they tend to be white men. They tend to have very similar backgrounds. And you can't think of a more different background than Serena Williams. I mean, she is so impressive and speaks so eloquently. She even said, very self deprecating. She said during the interview, I'm super low energy. And I'm like, I have seen you smash a tennis ball. What are you talking about? Low energy? But just her existing and investing, especially in this idea that she's Investing for the 98%, I think is really important at a time when again, it's still an industry really dominated by men. But you do have increasingly women and people of color trying to make inroads.
- [45:35]
Michael Barr
Aha. Danny Burger, you're an old friend of the show now. Thank you so much for joining us.
- [45:41]
Danny Berger
Thank you so much.
- [45:42]
Michael Barr
And that does it for this edition of the Bloomberg Business of Sports. What happened, Vanessa? The show just like, poof.
- [45:49]
Vanessa Perdomo
It was a fun one.
- [45:49]
Michael Barr
It was.
- [45:50]
Vanessa Perdomo
It goes by quick.
- [45:51]
Michael Barr
I know. Next thing you know, it's like I'm saying, for Damien Sass Sauer and you, Vanessa Perdomo, I'm Michael Barr. Tune in again next week for the latest on the stories Moving Big Old money in the world of sports. And don't forget to catch our podcast on all your podcast platforms. You are listening to the Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio around the world.
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Information you should read and consider carefully before investing. Risk includes principal laws prepared by BlackRock.
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