NASCAR, Michael Jordan’s Racing Team Settle Antitrust Suit

Summary

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Bloomberg Business of Sports

Episode: NASCAR, Michael Jordan’s Racing Team Settle Antitrust Suit

Date: December 12, 2025
Hosts: Michael Barr, Randall Williams, Damian Sassour
Guests: Martin Edel (Gulston & Storrs Sports Law, Columbia University), Ben Fisher (Sports Business Journal)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the high-stakes intersection of sports, law, and business, beginning with the landmark settlement between NASCAR and Michael Jordan’s 23XI Racing Team in a federal antitrust dispute. The hosts and guests analyze the legal implications, impact on teams, and what this means for the future of American motorsports.
Subsequent segments cover private equity’s historic entry into college sports through the University of Utah and Otro Capital, before shifting to a discussion with SBJ’s Ben Fisher on the new Influence 125 list, highlighting the most powerful figures shaping the business of sports.

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Major Segments & Key Discussion Points

1. NASCAR & Michael Jordan’s 23XI Settles Antitrust Suit

[03:09–14:39]

Background & Legal Issues

• Section 2 Monopolization Claim:
  Michael Jordan’s team (23XI) accused NASCAR of using monopoly power to dictate unfair team terms, such as:
  • Restricting stock car competitions
  • Limiting team operations and event participation
  • Imposing non-competes
  • Controlling access and design of race cars

Quote:

“Michael Jordan and his team 2311 ended up suing NASCAR on what's called a Section 2 claim. That's a monopolization claim…”
– Martin Edel [04:35]

Terms and Implications of Settlement

• Permanent Charters: All 36 teams receive guaranteed spots in Cup Series races
• Potential for Market Expansion:
  • “Three-strike rule” lets teams skip events, opening doors for participation in other premier racing series
• Increased Team Input & Democratization:
  • Teams will have more governance power; limits on France family’s control
  • Expected result: More events, increased team earnings, potential trickle down to drivers and crews

Quote:

“So you might see a broader democratization of how NASCAR is run, how it's going to sell itself to fans, to the media, and the number of events it will be sponsoring.”
– Martin Edel [06:37]

Impact on Team Value & Sales

• Guarantee of event participation boosts franchise value, aids recruitment, and may fuel a wave of team sales or investments.

Quote:

“I think we're going to see a dramatic increase again, because if you're a team and you have a charter, you're guaranteed to compete. So the value of your team knowing that you're going to be in all these events should go up.”
– Martin Edel [10:00]

Shift in Ownership & Private Equity

• NASCAR, historically run by the France family, will become more team-influenced, paralleling trends in other major U.S. leagues.
• Anticipated increase in private equity and public investment in teams.

Quote:

“The NFL this year announced they were allowing private equity to buy in. I think you'll see the same phenomenon now with NASCAR teams.”
– Martin Edel [12:58]

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2. Private Equity’s Breakthrough in College Sports

[18:12–29:30]

Utah & Otro Capital Deal

• Otro Capital, with deep sports industry experience, becomes the first private equity firm to land a for-profit partnership with a college athletic program (University of Utah).
  • Focus: Ticketing, sponsorships, revenue generation
• Significance: Other universities have explored but not finalized PE deals; Utah’s partnership expected to set precedent.

Quote:

“They've struck a deal with the Utah Utes... that's going to see Otro become this essential for profit arm for the university.”
– Randall Williams [19:06]

What Does Private Equity Bring to College Programs?

• Potential for capital investments (stadiums/renovations), improved sponsorships, operational expertise
• Open questions remain about direct value creation beyond revenue expansion

Quote:

“We haven't seen the sort of value that they're going to be able to provide.”
– Randall Williams [22:26]

NIL’s Role and PE’s Effect on Recruitment

• Name, Image, and Likeness (NIL) deals serve as an “equalizer,” but winning programs still hold advantage
• PE may offer tech/data for recruitment, but transformation is uncertain

Quote:

“Private equity is going to have an impact, but the idea that it's going to dramatically impact recruiting, I'm not fully convinced on.”
– Randall Williams [24:19]

Broader Implications

• Increasing privatization and commercial pressure reshaping college athletics
• Anticipated playoff expansion and major schools’ financial self-sufficiency

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3. College Football: Notre Dame & Michigan Drama

[24:59–29:49]

Notre Dame’s Playoff Snub

• Discussion on the school’s playoff exclusion despite historical strength; foreshadows likely playoff expansion

Michigan Football Coaching Scandal

• Fallout from coach Sharon Moore’s dismissal over alleged assault and inappropriate relationship
• Impact on recruiting (notably losing high-profile commit Bryce Underwood), program reputation, and future hires

Quote:

“It's a very unfortunate situation. I think that there's a lot of details that remain very murky right now. I'm sure we'll discover in the days and weeks to come.”
– Randall Williams [27:49]

The Ever-Shifting Power of Winning vs. Scandal

• Hosts reflect on how athletic success (“winning dilutes anything that goes on”) can overshadow controversy

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4. Sports Business Journal’s Influence 125

[34:09–45:23]

What is the Influence 125?

• SBJ’s annual list of the 125 most influential people in the business of sports, factoring in power across ownership, athletes, media, capital, and change-agents

Evolution of Influence in Sports

• 2000s: “Mom & Pop” era; now: dominance of private equity, foreign investors, and global media empires

Quote:

“[Now] there are private equity names and foreign government names on this list… it's just interesting to see how far we've come and how different power and influence is now versus 25 years ago.”
– Ben Fisher [34:43]

Inside the List-Making Process

• Originates from 21 years of annual “most influential” lists, whittled down after heated debates and discussions

Notable Stat:

Only four figures have made every list: Bob Kraft, Jerry Jones, Roger Goodell, and Gary Bettman. [36:35]

How Influence Is Judged: Money ≠ Everything

• True influence includes:
  • Business improvement (ex: Arthur Blank’s impact on Atlanta sports)
  • Social/cultural reach (ex: Robert Kraft’s networking)
  • Ability to alter industry direction (ex: Serena Williams and Tiger Woods’ transformative effect)

Quote:

“Money is power to a certain extent. A dollar can accomplish something that no dollars cannot. Power and influence aren't quite the same thing...”
– Ben Fisher [37:33]

The Role of Athletes, Broadcasters, and Sponsors

• Few athletes make the top 125 unless they transcend competition with major business or cultural impact (e.g., Williams, Woods); Olympians included for their advocacy and culture-changing actions
• Broadcasters discussed but generally excluded unless they drive major business change (agent Sandy Montag is an exception as a behind-the-scenes influencer)
• Major sponsors like Andrea Bremmer (Ally), Chuck Fruit (Coke, AB-InBev) included based on their industry-shaping spends

The Rise of Private Equity & Foreign Investment

• Increasingly recognized as the core of sports power; future SBJ lists expected to feature even more capital allocators

Quote:

“It seems to make or break companies. Companies that can get an investment from them or on their radar screen seem to have a trajectory that everyone else doesn't.”
– Ben Fisher [43:23]

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Memorable Quotes

• “Settlements began, and this is no small coincidence, right after Jim France got off the stand… The 2311 lawyers did a very good job cross examining him.”
  – Martin Edel [11:41]
• “NASCAR will be more inclusive of the teams in governance, which means the Franz family will have greater limitations on its ability to run NASCAR sort of as a fiefdom.”
  – Martin Edel [12:20]
• “If Utah was going to do this with someone, I think that Otro is at the top of the list.”
  – Randall Williams [19:54]
• “The idea that everybody's gonna be paid and such and such school can turn into a powerhouse tomorrow is not true.”
  – Randall Williams [24:19]
• “The amount of capital is enormous. So they're going to go to public markets or even private equity markets.”
  – Martin Edel [12:58]
• “Capital is power and influence. And there's other ways to get influence too. But showing up with a multi-billion dollar fund is a great way to get influence.”
  – Ben Fisher [43:23]

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• NASCAR Antitrust Lawsuit & Settlement: 03:09–14:39
• Private Equity & College Sports (Utah/Otro): 18:12–29:30
• Notre Dame Football Playoff Controversy: 24:59–26:33
• Michigan Football Scandal: 26:33–29:49
• Sports Business Journal Influence 125: 34:09–45:23

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Concluding Takeaways

• The settlement between NASCAR and 23XI Racing sets a precedent for increased team say and likely paves the way for a more “franchised” sports model, with higher team valuations and democratized governance.
• Private equity’s reach now extends to U.S. college sports—the start of a new investing era likely to reshape how athletic departments fund and operate programs.
• Influence in sports has diversified beyond team owners and league commissioners, now encompassing athletes making cultural shifts, huge sponsors, and especially the investors fueling modern sports business.
• The episode serves as a primer on how big money and legal power-plays are remaking the sports business landscape, from track to campus to boardroom.

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Transcript

[Randall Williams]

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Disclosures available at public.comDisclosures.

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Bloomberg Audio Studios Podcasts Radio News this is the business of sports.

[Damian Sassour]

Sports are the greatest unscripted show on earth.

[Martin Edel]

The next generation of players really grew up with tech and believe in tech.

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Your face is your ticket.

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No reason why we can't compete with the guys.

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Are people really going to tune into this?

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If you're playing Moneyball with a huge.

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BLOOMBERG BUSINESS OF Sports From Bloomberg Radio.

[Michael Barr]

This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports where we explore the big money issues in the world of sports. I'm Michael Barr.

[Randall Williams]

And I'm Bloomberg U.S. sports business reporter Randall Williams stepping in for Damien Sassour and of course Vanessa Perdomo.

[Michael Barr]

Damian and Vanessa will join us later in the show. Coming up, we'll dive in on sports business journals. The influence 125. It's SBJ's annual list of the most influential figures in sports. We'll cover that and more on the Bloomberg Business of sports. But we start with some news that broke late in the week. NASCAR and Michael Jordan just settled a federal antitrust lawsuit that could have big ramifications for how NASCAR operate.

[Randall Williams]

I mean finally it's been going on for a really long time and I'm glad that it's over with.

[Michael Barr]

Joining Randall and I to break down this story and what's next is friend of the show Martin Edel. He's the co chair of Gulston and Storrs Sports Law Practice and adjunct professor of law at Columbia University. Marty, welcome back to the Bloomberg Business of Sports.

[Martin Edel]

It's so nice to be back with you and with Randall today.

[Michael Barr]

There is a lots of legal stories in sports. Probably one of the biggest ones is that NASCAR settled with Michael Jordan in his antitrust lawsuit. Tell us more about that.

[Martin Edel]

So first let me set the table if that's okay. Michael Jordan and his team 2311 ended up suing NASCAR on what's called a Section 2 claim. That's a monopolization claim. They claim that NASCAR essentially was using its monopoly power in the market for premier stock car racing to give unfair deals to teams and therefore to fans by limiting the number of competitions, limiting the way in which teams could operate. They had to use certain cars which were only sourced by NASCAR's source and limiting the number of events you had to sign. You got a charter and you had to sign in that a non compete that you wouldn't compete in other premier stock car racing. So Michael Jordan and his team sued. After negotiations to resolve it broke down. The trial went on I think for about 10 days and then all of a sudden, they announced a settlement. Bingo. So here we are today, and that was Wednesday.

[Randall Williams]

So I guess my question is, what is the larger effect of this lawsuit going to be? How's it going to affect NASCAR and shape this for the common fan, someone who's like, oh, NASCAR's on. Let me sit down and watch. Is there anything that is going to be different from either what you're going to see on the track or the business of it?

[Martin Edel]

So the biz, nothing on the track. I don't think there will be differences in the business. For example, they're going to reinstitute something called the three strike rule, which is if a team does not want to compete in three NASCAR events, it can opt out and start to compete in other premier stock car racing events. It's pretty easy to say, I don't want to compete in event X.

[Ben Fisher]

Right.

[Martin Edel]

So that will open the market for more premier stock car racing events. I don't know if there's going, I don't have the detail, all the details yet of the settlement, but I don't know if there's going to be a limitation on the single source supply for how cars are designed. And that could, if there is, that could have a big effect on the economics for teams. And the third aspect which this will change is it's going to be a change in governance of nascar. The teams will have more input. So you might see a broader democratization of how NASCAR is run, how it's going to sell itself to fans, to the media, and the number of events it will be sponsoring. So I think the ultimate outcome is we're going to see more premier stock car racing events. You know, the media will have to decide if it wants to buy into more.

[Randall Williams]

Right.

[Martin Edel]

But fans will have lots more opportunities to see them and teams will have the opportunity to make more money now rather than the fixed amount they can get from nascar, which means it should dribble down at least to drivers and race car crews as well. So maybe everybody will benefit.

[Michael Barr]

The settlement from NASCAR means it will give all teams permanent charters. And what that means is the settlement means 36 teams will have a guaranteed spot in every top level cup series race. Which brings me to an old man observation. Back in the day, if you didn't qualify for the race, you just didn't qualify for the race. And now, you know, then they started with, you know, free passes to get in to race, certain number of free passes. Now you're going to make every race. I wonder, Marty, how that's going to impact from the old school NASCAR fans.

[Martin Edel]

Well, it will certainly change the model, Michael. What you will have now is you will have a guaranteed number of slots unless a team decides to use one of its strikes not to compete in a particular event. So you have 36 guaranteed slots and now you will open it up for whoever else is out there. But the teams can invest in their races knowing that they will be admitted to all these events. That's a big change.

[Randall Williams]

So one of my last questions is this. The overall takeaway from fans is that this seems to be good for the sport in that it resembles some of the other sporting leagues like the NFL and NBA and the MLB with their franchises that, you know, you have 32 in the NFL and 30 in the NBA. And NASCAR will seemingly have 36, which they're calling charters. I wonder how, how do you view the potential team sales side of this? I mean, we've seen some people buy in and create teams, but I wonder now that this is sort of separate, separating or looks different, do you see different teams being like, you know what? Now that I have a little bit more leverage, I kind of want out of this NASCAR thing. What's the price on this?

[Martin Edel]

So that's a great, great question. I think the answer is we saw the team value for NASCAR sanctioned teams rising during the 2010s, then they sort of came to a halt. I think we're going to see a dramatic increase again, because if you're a team and you have a charter, you're guaranteed to compete. So the value of your team knowing that you're going to be in all these events should go up. You'll be able to recruit better drivers, better pit teams, all of which should work to enhance the value of the team when you as an owner want to sell out.

[Michael Barr]

Let's go back to what really set this whole thing off in the first place. Nascar. They, you know, they're founded and privately owned by the Florida based France family. And according to the testimony that NASCAR chairman Jim France gave, he never really considered making charters permanent. But Instead, after a two plus year bitter negotiation feud, NASCAR in 2024 presented a take it or leave it final offer. And that's when it all blew up. Marty, take us now to today when we saw Michael Jordan and NASCAR chairman Jim France standing side by side at the courthouse.

[Martin Edel]

Well, litigations make strange bedfellows. The settlements began, and this is no coincidence, no small coincidence. Right after Jim France got off the standard.

[Michael Barr]

Yep.

[Martin Edel]

You know, I think the 2311 lawyers did a very good job cross examining him. That made that ought to make a lawyer go back to his client and say, look, you're not, you may not get out of this 100%. So aren't we better off trying to negotiate a resolution here? And the dynamics were that as I understand it at least the negotiations resumed over settlement almost immediately after France got off the stand and concluded. I think I said Wednesday, but it was actually yesterday morning.

[Randall Williams]

Got it.

[Martin Edel]

And he's going to have to see part of the settlement is NASCAR will be more inclusive of the teams in governance, which means the Franz family will have greater limitations on its ability to run NASCAR sort of as a fiefdom. And that's probably for the good because diversity in ownership creates different dynamics and brings different pluses economically, socially to the table than you have if you have a single owner.

[Michael Barr]

Well, what other sport could this spread into?

[Martin Edel]

Well, another great question. So if you look at and Randall, I'll go back to your example of the NFL. How many of the teams are still owned by the family? You have the marrows of now with the Tish's owning the Giants, but basically they're all corporate run because the amount of capital needed to create the stadium, refurbish the stadium, have all the training facilities and hire the coaches, trainers and of course the players, that amount of capital is enormous. So they're going to go to public markets or even private equity markets. The NFL this year announced they were allowing private equity to buy in. I think you'll see the same phenomenon now with NASCAR teams. They'll want to win. The incentive to win is greater because now they're part of the whole structure. They can control the events, they can control the purses that they get. But to get to that, they're going to have to invest in their teams. Where is that capital going to come from? So we may be looking at greater investments from public and private markets. As for other leagues where this may exist or could exist, look to tennis and golf. What are they going to be doing in the not too distant future? You know, how can a golf team, you know, even somebody as dynamic as Scotty Scheffler, how is he going to finance everything that he does?

[Michael Barr]

Well, this is definitely going to impact, forget just racing, but it's going to impact the entire sports industry. Private equity, private equity, private equity. That's all we talk about. That's all we talk about. Marty, you are so kind to join us again. We really appreciate you, man. Thanks again, sir. Our thanks to Marty Edel for joining us. He's co chair at Gilston and Storr Sports Law Practice and an adjunct professor of law at Columbia University. Up next, Randall Williams sticks with us to help us go over some of the other breaking stories this week in the world of college sports. I'm Michael Barr. You are listening to the Bloomberg Business of Sports Bloomberg Radio around the world.

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[Michael Barr]

This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports where we explore the big money issues in the world of sports. I'm Michael Barr.

[Damian Sassour]

I'm Damian Sass.

[Michael Barr]

Our still ahead, we'll talk with our partners at Sports Business journal about the Influence125. It's the annual list of the most influential figures in sports. But before we get there, we need to talk some big headlines in the college ranks. The University of Utah is on the brink of a brand new deal with a relatively new private equity firm, Otro Capital. Bloomberg US Sports business reporter Randall Williams, he's still with us because he's got a full head of knowledge and he's done reporting on this first of a kind deal. Randall, thanks for your time man.

[Randall Williams]

Thank you for having me.

[Michael Barr]

Lots to talk about. Ocho Capital becomes the first PE firm to win College Sports deal. Tell us more about that.

[Randall Williams]

Yeah, they're basically they've struck a deal with the Utah Utes, aka the University of Utah in a deal that is going to see Otro become this essential for profit arm for the university. They've talked about ticketing, they talked about sponsorship, they're talking about all sorts of ways that they're going to be able to make money. And private equity has been hovering around college sports over the last couple of over the last couple of years. And so it's no surprise that one of these deals finally was inked and signed, sealed and delivered.

[Damian Sassour]

Randall, tell us a little bit about Ocho itself. I believe it got funding from Calpers. I believe it's a bunch of ex Redbird folks. I think they made an investment in F1, maybe in Alpine. Talk to us a little bit about the firm and what we could hope to expect from them and how they can hope to expand the University of Utah.

[Randall Williams]

They are well seasoned sports executives who have experience from working in the NFL at one Team Partners, which is the joint venture between the NFL PA and the mlbpa. They are some of the best in the business and so they've made investments, as you said, in F1. Now they're the first in in college. I think the numbers that are out there are about this Utah deal are a little bit up in the air. We don't know how much is the actual deal is value. I don't know how much O is putting in and what Utah is exactly going to do with the money. But I think that they are a great firm to do a deal with because of who is is doing this. If this was one of the larger firms, I would be a little bit weary on, you know, what their intentions are. But OTRO has people that have worked in sports together. So if Utah was going to do this with someone, I think that O is at the top of the list.

[Michael Barr]

And they went to at least 60 colleges, maybe even more, before they said, okay, you're the winner.

[Randall Williams]

Yeah, they probably had a lot of conversations. And I think that there have been a lot of firms even outside of private equity. I think years ago there was the rumor that Colorado had conversations with the sovereign wealth firm and that the big ten had conversations with this California pension fund and that deal has been placed on hold. Schools have been looking for money in a multitude of ways. It's just that Utah found the right partner and hopefully this helps them win a lot more. Because in college sports, it's so much different than in the NFL, but it's becoming more similar in that, you know, winning leads to a lot of money. And if you can't make the College Football Playoff, if you can't make things like the elite eight, the sweet 16, the final four, then, you know, how are you going to pack out all of these arenas? How are you going to convince your alumni in a place like Utah? Like, this isn't Ohio or Indiana, where. Or even Illinois, where, you know, they can be. There are tourist cities. You can book venues.

[Damian Sassour]

Well, I mean, looking back, if I'm not mistaken, back in 2023, FSU, there was talks about FSU, you doing a deal with 6th street or an Arctos, and then I think just recently University of Michigan and maybe even usc, there were some talks that, you know, they were going to do something with private equity.

[Public.com Advertiser]

I guess.

[Damian Sassour]

You know, the question I have, Randall, is what is private equity going to do for these universities, right? I mean, are they really going to expand their gate receipts? Are they really going to get bigger, better corporate sponsorships that are more profitable that will flow directly to the university? And I guess more importantly, what is the premium that they're going to charge these universities for bringing those deals to bear? So, you know, just talk to us a little bit. I mean, what do you think? You know, the folks at Ocho are going to do. How are they going to, you know, how are they going to improve the management of the university and its football program?

[Randall Williams]

I think there's a couple of ways to look at it. You look at it first in the traditional aspect of what does private equity do in other sports, which is provide solutions. In the NFL, for example, it's estate planning, you know, relationships. It's getting people who want money out of that. That side is not going to be happening because no one person owns the University of Utah. However, on the stadium side of things, let's just say that they want to do a renovation, they want to redo some suites, ult can come in and pay for that. On the sponsorship side of things, I do think that again, that is linked to winning. If you are not winning, you're not on nationally televised networks, then why would a big time sponsor, let's just say State Farm, for example, want to partner with your university? I think that on the revenue generation side, we're going to have to see what sort of ways that OO is going to be able to provide experience and some value. Because it hasn't been done before. We haven't seen the sort of value that they're going to be able to provide.

[Damian Sassour]

Well, one of the big selling points that I've heard from a lot of these private equity firms is their access to data and how they want to use, I don't know, AI or just proprietary data in order to maybe, I don't know, recruit better athletes or improve their skills on the field. Is that something that some of these private equity firms are even going to get into or is it going to be strictly relegated to what you rightly point out, media deals, gate receipts, corporate sponsorships and the like.

[Randall Williams]

I think that recruiting athletes from a technological standpoint, yes, they could invest in something and maybe help them find better recruits. At the same time, there's a double sided coin to nil, which is that it is the great equalizer. And that's a school like Indiana can turn into the number one school in the nation tomorrow. But with the right coach, with the right program, with the right people and with the right athletes. This idea that everybody's gonna be paid and such and such school can turn into a powerhouse tomorrow is not true.

[Damian Sassour]

Right?

[Randall Williams]

Otherwise we would have seen it from San Jose State, we would have seen it from other smaller schools if you get the right people. And there are dozens of five star, four star, three star recruits not only coming out of high school but in a transfer portal. And we never See them play on Sundays. We don't even know some of their names because it takes a village. It isn't just a money making thing now. It's the greatest time for a college athlete ever because there are no stakes to your performance. If you go and, you know, let's just say you enter the transfer portal and someone offers you $300,000. That's life changing money whether you make it to Sundays or not. And so I think private equity is going to have an impact, but the idea that it's going to dramatically impact recruiting, I'm not fully convinced on.

[Michael Barr]

I want to go back to something you said and you said that the colleges, they make the money when they make the 12 or the final, you know, for the four and all this other stuff. Well, which brings me to Notre Dame because they had been in the top 12 all this time, and then all of a sudden the committee said, nope, you're done. And of course Notre Dame, they're upset. Yeah, we're not, we're not going to any bowl.

[Randall Williams]

I think the entire situation is funny because of the fact that Notre Dame's conference plays a little wonky. Their schedule's a little wonky.

[Damian Sassour]

That's right.

[Randall Williams]

You know, they're, they had a cake schedule. Exactly.

[Damian Sassour]

I mean, let's be clear. The one game, look, they lost two games by total of four points. Michael Barr, one of them was to. And they got the at large bid.

[Randall Williams]

Right.

[Damian Sassour]

So I mean, look, there is something to be said that when you line them up against, you know, now what I think you're probably looking at is you got to have a few more teams in the playoffs.

[Randall Williams]

I think, I think they will expand it eventually. But I think going back to the big picture conversation about private equity, let's talk about these big money schools.

[Damian Sassour]

Yeah.

[Randall Williams]

Notre Dame has no issue with nil money. Miami has no issue with nil money. And yet they're still complaining about, oh, we didn't get in, this isn't right, yada, yada, yada. And so the idea that private equity could come in and tomorrow strike a deal. Well, if Notre Dame needed money, I can guarantee you they would have it right now. They would have their choice at what private equity firm they would want to partner with. And so this temper tantrum I think is funny right now. But in a couple of years it'll be solved. It'll be 16 teams. And I really think that should be the cap. We don't need to turn college football into March madness. It just doesn't need to be that.

[Michael Barr]

Well, I tell you where there is a major problem. I'm flabbergasted. Former Michigan football coach Sharon Moore, he went to jail and they started because the university said that he was having an inappropriate relationship with a staff member and then that bled to police arresting him because of what they only said was an assault. How much does this damage the University of Michigan football program?

[Randall Williams]

It's a big hit, of course. I mean, I think we've been talking a lot about recruiting and who's been the person?

[Damian Sassour]

Bryce Underwood. I mean, where does he go?

[Michael Barr]

Who?

[Damian Sassour]

Bryce Underwood.

[Randall Williams]

Exactly. And you remember Bryce was committed to LSU for many, many months until the likes of Ellison and Tom Brady and Portnoy put together some money to go and get him. Does he leave? We don't know. I think the impact on the university is huge because one, it is a smear right now that Michigan would have something like this going on not only for the university but also for him at the same time. It is now the most highly and highly sought out job in college football by far. Yeah. So it's, it's a very unfortunate situation. I think that there's a lot of details that remain very murky right now. I'm sure we'll discover in the days and weeks to come.

[Michael Barr]

Well, I hate to put it like this. Does everybody from former head coach Jim Harbaugh and that era, do they need to clean house?

[Randall Williams]

Good question. I think that whoever comes in will need to be a general manager of the program in a better way than Harbaugh was. I mean Harbaugh is of course going to be remembered for a national championship win because the, and the scandal, the scandal. However, when I think winning just make dilutes anything that goes on. And so there will be people outside of Michigan will remember, oh, he cheated, yada yada yada. But there are people within Michigan remember we won 15 and 0, we went undefeated and won a national championship. I do think that whoever comes in needs to be a better culture setter than both of them.

[Michael Barr]

Deflategate. Who? Oh, I'm sorry. Winning does help, but I mean, I.

[Damian Sassour]

Mean if you just think about Sharon Moore, I mean I think he's getting paid something like $6.1 million a year. He just locked into a five year contract. This is big money. I think the buyout if I'm not mistaken was like double digits like 13, $14 million if he was fired. But this is obviously for cause.

[Ben Fisher]

Sure.

[Damian Sassour]

So it's just, I mean the way these coaches are getting paid, it's the Single.

[Randall Williams]

That's the single most startling thing about it, is that there are a multitude of ways you can be fired in college football nowadays. And this is just not one that you would put on the list for any coach, college football, basketball or any other sport out there because of the payouts. If you are going to be a bad football team, then guess what? Do not resign. Don't take another job. Just wait and wait and wait until they get and then they will send you away and pay you out and pay you out. And granted they're going to try to decrease that money down the same way that's happening at LSU. But we're talking about 50, 40, $30 million to go sit on a beach somewhere. And now because of this inappropriate relationship, allegedly, that he's going to get nothing.

[Damian Sassour]

Yeah, crazy.

[Michael Barr]

Okay, I know we got a rap, but now I'm just going to play that media reporter role. You ever think that Bill Belichick could be the next head coach at the University of Michigan?

[Damian Sassour]

I was thinking you'd ask Tom Brady.

[Randall Williams]

No, I mean I think that Belichick's contract and just the way that things have gone at unc, I think the perception was that because Bill Belichick is a football mastermind that he would have stepped foot in Chapel Hill and they would have at least had a winning record. And it goes to show that his first year went very similar to Coach Prime's first year. It was trials and tribulations. Now you take that and you bring him to Michigan where you have donors, you have, he's not the biggest name there anymore. There are people funding this that will be like what are you doing? And also the treatment of kids. And of course we have yet to mention Ms. Jordan Hudson. How would the university handle that? I don't think it's a headache that Michigan wants.

[Michael Barr]

Randall, you are the man. Thank you so much for joining us.

[Randall Williams]

Thank you for having me.

[Michael Barr]

Big special thank you to Bloomberg U.S. sports business reporter Randall Williams for jumping in with us this week. Coming up, our partners at Sports Business Journal are putting out its annual list of influential figures in sports. We break down this year's the Influence 125 from SBJ next for Damian Sassour and Vanessa Perdomo. I'm Michael Barr. You are listening to the Bloomberg business of sports Bloomberg Radio around the world.

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[Michael Barr]

Thanks for joining us on the Bloomberg Business of Sports where we explore the big money issues in the world of sports.

[Damian Sassour]

I'm Michael Barr, I'm Damian Sassauer, sports.

[Michael Barr]

Business journalists partner with Bloomberg through our new subscription bundle which gives readers access to both Bloomberg's business reporting and and SBJ's industry leading sports coverage.

[Damian Sassour]

That's right, Michael Barr. Our partners at Sports Business Journal just released the Influence125, its annual list of the most influential figures in the world of sports.

[Michael Barr]

And to tell us a little more about the list this year, we welcome Ben Fisher, NFL beat writer at sbj. Hey there Ben. Welcome to the Bloomberg business of sports.

[Ben Fisher]

Thanks for having me.

[Michael Barr]

We have the new influence 125 list out. Anything in that list that jumps out in front of you, Ben?

[Ben Fisher]

You know, it was, what was so useful to me in this project was looking at the last 25 years as a single entity. So much has changed in sports. You think back to what mattered in 2000, 2001, 2002, and it was a mom and pop world in some respects now and the fact that there are private equity names and foreign government names on this list today, you know, it's just interesting to see how far we've come and how different power and influence is now versus 25 years ago. Trying to have an entire list that encapsulates that entire period was a really rewarding intellectual challenge in addition to just a fun read for the end of the year too.

[Commercial Announcer]

I love the idea of looking at the room where it happened.

[Public.com Advertiser]

Right.

[Randall Williams]

Those discussions.

[Commercial Announcer]

And I feel like that that's just as interesting as who actually ended up making the list. So bring us inside that room. I mean, I know bunch of sports reporters getting together in one room can be rather loud and feisty.

[Ben Fisher]

Right? Feisty. And then, you know, some of us are, are better than others at hiding our own personal agendas. If you ask me, all 32 NFL owners should be on this list because that's good business for me personally. And then the NASCAR guy is saying the same thing. So we try to rise above that, but maybe not all the time. In terms of nuts and bolts, how we literally started this, this started from our most annual most influential list. So we've done this now for, for 21 years. And the first people that were on the whiteboard was anyone who had been on the most influential list at any point over this 20 years. That's 379 different people. Then we added 200 more names to that and started whittling down from there. It's tough. I mean, you think on one hand these lists don't change a lot from year to year and that's probably true, but they change a lot over five, 10 or 20 years. There's only four people who made this list all for all 21 years. When we did this on an annual basis.

[Commercial Announcer]

And who's that?

[Ben Fisher]

It was Bob Kraft, Jerry Jones, Roger Goodell and Gary Bettman from the NHL. Everybody else has come and gone at some point. So that's where we started and we just started whittling down from there. I think there was a dozen emails that went to the whole staff and then, you know, a dozen more in person meetings. Maybe I'm getting to the point of accurately characterizing the work there.

[Damian Sassour]

Well, you know, here's where we go, Ben, because I have looked at this list. I have been a follower of it over the years. And you know, if you just when you did use the rank it, you had, you know, Adam Silver up there, you had people like Roger Goodell up there. You have athletes, you have owners, commissioners, you have TV execs. I think Bob Iger was up there one year. Can you talk to us a little bit about this year's list? What percentage of that and you know, call it what you will, are real owners and investors relative to, I guess the athletes and the commissioners who I wouldn't say work for the teams, but yeah, you know, are more just a bit of a different breed.

[Ben Fisher]

Yeah, I have not counted, done the math, broken this down. Owners versus operators versus investors, I think. But you know, I think that's, that's a. By trying to answer that question, I'll, I'll go to the difference maybe between relevance, power and influence. And these are subtle things and these aren't necessarily dictionary definitions, but it's a lot of what we talk about around the room. Money is power to a certain extent. A dollar can accomplish something that no dollars cannot. Power and influence aren't quite the same thing when we talk about money. Arthur Blank, owner of the Atlanta Falcons, is far from the wealthiest person in sports. You know, well down that list if we're just counting dollars. But he's got such a strong track record. Everything he's touched in sports has gotten much better as a direct result of his influence. The Atlanta Falcons were a disaster on a business wise side. Before he got the ball, he Atlanta's MLS team is maybe the best expansion team launch across all sports anywhere in terms of raw dollars and brand relevance. Right out of the gate. He saved the PGA Superstore and he's part of the group that's really given the PGA fresh life during its drama the last few years. So that's an influence of one kind. And then Robert Kraft, also far from the wealthiest person in sports, but he probably has everyone on this list. Cell phone number. And that's influenced in a more subtle way too. That's not about dollars and cents. Just everybody kind of likes the guy.

[Michael Barr]

I want to give a shout out to the on air talent and my goodness, Bob Costas, Al Michaels, Jim Nance, there is nothing more you can say about those three except, wow, you talk about greatness, Ben.

[Damian Sassour]

Yeah, but they didn't make the list, Michael. I mean that's, but they were at.

[Michael Barr]

The list at one point.

[Damian Sassour]

Were they, Is that right? I think they were in years past.

[Ben Fisher]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, they were. I think, I don't know if there's, if we can say one person had the biggest fight about it. I'd say the biggest argument internally was almost philosophical about broadcasters. You know, these guys are part of our lives. We feel like we know Al Michaels and Bob Costas and, and Jim Nance and people like that. And they're so ubiquitous in sports and you think how does that not equate to influence? You know, I don't.

[Michael Barr]

Broadcasting.

[Commercial Announcer]

Yes, of course, Michael.

[Ben Fisher]

But you know, are these people making, are they making policy decisions? Are they doing, is, are there things that are happening that would, would not happen but for them, I think that's a tougher question for them. Interestingly enough, who is on the list is Sandy Montag, the agent who has represented a hugely disproportionate number of on air talents over the years. You know, he, he made John Madden what he is. You know, his clients include Costas and Tirico, Nance and Van Pelt. And our thinking was that the role those people play in our lives is a reflection of people like Sandy and others in the business of broadcasting, maybe not so much themselves, which I hate to say that because there should be a separate list for those guys. They all mean so much to us and they're so good at, and they've been doing it for so long. But we, when we decided to influence, we found the, the spots on our list were better held by others.

[Commercial Announcer]

When you're looking at the list like Damian mentioned, there's, there's all these different pockets of it and really with the athletes, there's not that many athletes. There's really like a handful of athletes maybe. And obviously it's, it's the bout sports business. So when you're looking at how they influence sports business, how did you go about choosing the athletes that are on the list?

[Ben Fisher]

Yeah, you're right. There's not as many athletes as you might think. I think SBJ readers know that, you know, we lean pretty heavily toward true business side of things. I think the question I asked in these meetings when we talked about athletes was what else do you have? No matter how many championships or individual awards or wins you had, you know, what else was there? There needed to be something above and beyond the field of play, because the field of play is sort of the product, right? I mean, when we look at the business side, we're looking for some sort of value add. And that's where names like Serena Williams and Tiger woods came to bear, where they just completely changed the economics of the entire sport because they were so disproportionately more relevant and popular than their contemporaries there. And you know, they, they, they, you know, weren't just signing checks to put their name on things too. They were doing business deals that were very substantive and meaningful and bringing, you know, they're, they're involved in equity and, and business startups and that sort of thing. Another example is we put Simone Biles, Allison Felix and Michael Phelps on there as a single entity entity. Olympians, Olympians are tough. They're the biggest thing in the world for two weeks a year. But they're in niche to be kind sports. The rest of the time we put them up because of their role in, in driving cultural conversations and Michael Phelps advocacy for mental health and Simone Biles boldness and speaking out against the sexual abuse going on at USA Gymnastics and changing things and Allison Felix for being such a force and you know, calling out Nike for its behavior toward pregnant women, that sort thing. So athletes, yes, you got to be a winner, but there's got to be more than that too.

[Damian Sassour]

Well, you know, Ben, I mean, look, the reality is this list, every year you did used to rank somebody, you did used to rank one to 125. You're not doing that anymore. But last year your number one was the private equity investor. And this year has been nothing short of pre essence in the fact that private equity in its role specifically within the NFL and the NBA has just taken off. Talk to us a little bit about what the future of this list might look like. Are you guys digging deep on Redbird and Arctos and all these private equity avenue? I mean, everyone's starting a sports related investment fund. Talk to us a little bit about the impact that's having on influence in the world of sports.

[Ben Fisher]

Yeah, happy to. And to your point about the rankings, I think in 2000. It was very possible to pick the most influential person in sports. It was just a small enough world. You could. Now there's too much. It's an asset class. Who's to say who's number one? It's too big. But to your point about private equity, you know, it's been so resilient of a trend that every day there's more mentions of the Arctosis and the Redbirds in our world. And it seems to make or break companies, companies that can get an investment from them or on their radar screen seem to have a trajectory that everyone else doesn't. And you know, like I said earlier, capital is power and influence. And there's other ways to get influence too. But showing up with a multi billion dollar fund is a great way to get influence. And number one on the list two years ago was Yasser Al Ramyan from the Saudi Public Investment.

[Damian Sassour]

That's right.

[Ben Fisher]

So that is a close cousin to private equity. And just the point there being just the extraordinary breadth of the people who are in sports now and can potentially will influence capital and wherever that comes from is just going to be a bigger and bigger part of this list.

[Michael Barr]

Did any of the sponsors, big time sponsors in sports make this list?

[Ben Fisher]

Yeah, Good question. Yes. Short answer. You're, you're, you're making me go back over my list here, but Andrea Bremmer from Ally.

[Michael Barr]

Yeah.

[Commercial Announcer]

Made the list.

[Ben Fisher]

Yeah. Andrea Bremer from Ally is a big one. Ally is one of those companies that, you know, I don't know them for much more than the fact that they are probably your biggest women's sports spender, your most, most focused women's sports spender. Chuck Fruit is a great one, you know, heading media and sports marketing at Coca Cola and Anheuser Busch for a long time. He's a bit of an older name on the list, but you talk about names that drive the industry. Those are two of the big ones. There are signs for those companies at every sporting venue in the country. Or Pepsi I guess. So there's a few of those. You know, sponsors collectively can play a big role for sure.

[Damian Sassour]

Our thanks to Sports Business Journal NFL beat writer Ben Fisher for joining us on SBJ's the Influence 125.

[Michael Barr]

And that does it for this week's edition of the Bloomberg Business of Sports. Where'd the time go for my colleagues Damien Sassour and Vanessa Perdomo? I'm Michael Barr.

[Damian Sassour]

Tune in again next week for the latest on all the stories moving big money in the world of sports and subscribe to our podcast now so you never miss an episode.

[Michael Barr]

And I'm talking big money, not that little money stuff. You're listening to the Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio around the world.

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