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- [00:00]
Michael Barr
The FIFA World Cup 26 is coming to North America. Get closer to where business meets the beautiful game with a hospitality package featuring premium seats and entertainment. Get closer to wins on and off the pitch. Register interest@hospitality dota.com Interest your next product.
- [00:20]
Randall Williams
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- [00:47]
Ann Liguori
That's metronome.com Hiscock Small Business Insurance Knows there is no business like your business. Across America, over 600,000 small businesses, from accountants and architects to photographers and yoga instructors, look to Hiscox Insurance for protection. Find flexible coverage that adapts to the needs of your small business with a fast, easy online'@hiscox.com that's his c o x.com there's no business like small business. Hiscox Small Business Insurance Bloomberg Audio Studios Podcasts Radio News this is the business of sports.
- [01:30]
Cole Gahagan
The business of sports can be intimidating or hard for a starter to break into.
- [01:34]
Damian Sassauer
We really appreciate when our owners are actually there, you know, with us through the journey.
- [01:39]
Ann Liguori
Teams, ours especially, have been very intentional to diversify at all levels of the company.
- [01:43]
Cole Gahagan
I think we're in the golden years for the NFL and college football. Our demographic reach has continued to expand.
- [01:50]
Ann Liguori
This is going to be really unlocking.
- [01:52]
Michael Barr
The streaming platform for sports fans.
- [01:54]
Randall Williams
Sports valuations are rising. We'll see when they peak.
- [01:57]
Cole Gahagan
You don't have to be the best in your sport to make a whole ton of money.
- [02:03]
Ann Liguori
Bloomberg Business of Sports From Bloomberg Radio.
- [02:07]
Michael Barr
This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports where we explore the big money issues in the world of sports. I'm Michael Barr along with my colleagues Damian Sassauer and Vanessa Perdomo. Scarlet Fu is on assignment coming up on the show with the Masters. Coming up next weekend, we'll talk a Little Golf with Ann Liguori. She has covered dozens of golf championships and tournaments and including 26 masters. We'll get her take on the state of the game heading into this year's Masters.
- [02:33]
Ann Liguori
It's the first time Roy McElroy is actually coming into this Masters, first time in a long time with two wins and he won at Pebble Beach a couple months ago, he won at the Players even though he was not his best off the tee get the Houston Open, he was tied for fifth. So he's playing really, really well.
- [02:52]
Michael Barr
Plus, we'll check in on a company looking to lead the way in the business of college sports in the age of nil. We' here a conversation with Learfield president and CEO Cole Gahagan. All that and more straight ahead on the Bloomberg business of sports. But first, we're a step closer to another NFL season. Believe that Bloomberg U.S. sports business reporter Randall Williams went to Florida to be our fly on the wall for this year's NFL annual meeting with league owners. He joins us now from the road to tell us a little about what he heard and saw. Randall, old friend, old buddy, old pal. Welcome back to the Bloomberg business of sports.
- [03:33]
Randall Williams
As always. Thank you for having me, Mr. Bar.
- [03:36]
Michael Barr
Oh, man, it's like, hey, could be seeing some flag football and we could see a league.
- [03:42]
Randall Williams
Absolutely. NFL is considering starting a pro flag football league, both men's and women's, as soon as next year. That's very fast.
- [03:50]
Vanessa Perdomo
As soon as next year. How is that actually possible?
- [03:54]
Randall Williams
I don't know. Transparent. I mean, I figured that they would have started this near the Olympics or around that time, but they're, I mean, if you think about the commitment from the dollars perspective of flag football, in my mind, you don't necessarily need as much as, let's say, a WNBA team because, you know, WNBA teams, you have to build a stadium, you have to have facilities, all these different things. And I think you definitely need the same thing for women's and men's flag football. But I don't know that owners would be in the business of building brand new stadiums or brand new facilities for these pro black football teams. That doesn't mean that they won't, but I don't know that it makes sense.
- [04:34]
Damian Sassauer
So Randall, talk to us a little bit. They're talking about both a men's and a women's flag football league, Right. And so, you know, I know there's a lot of big names. You've got Mark Lazarus Avenue, you've got CAA doing some partnership with an investor. You've got Serena Williams. Right. So talk to us a little bit about, you know, what you think the value of a flag football team may very well be and what comp would you use? Would you use like paddle and some of these recent prices that are going on or some of these club golf teams? I'm just curious to hear what you think is an appropriate comp for trying to value these franchises?
- [05:10]
Randall Williams
Well, it's too early to be determined in large part because you just don't know the structure of the league. These proposals from these groups all look different. And I made an attempt to pin down a lot of these things and I did find out a lot of details is like the structure of some of these proposals that the league is looking to partner with. Because the bottom line is the NFL wants to operate this with someone. They don't want to do it by themselves. They want someone to come in and help. And so you have all these groups who are like, yes, let's absolutely do business. But the exact business model, whether it's 6, 8, 10, 12 teams, is still to be determined. And from the financial side of things, you know, what does it look like for Serena Williams? Because you know, her husband, her husband has a bid, Serena wants to buy a team. And so those two things are a little separate. You have tko, who's in there, who I think could do an incredible job because of the fact that, you know, they have the ufc, they have the wwe, and if you've ever been to one of those live experiences, I can only imagine what that would be like with flag football. And then you have everybody else, of course, Ice Cube, who's the owner of the Big three. There's a lot of different groups and I, and there's four more out there, I think. But it's to be determined I, I that black football could potentially be a huge business someday for the NFL. Because if you think about it from a calendar perspective, like football ends in February and then you have March Madness and then you have the WNBA that starts. But there is for football, you have like a six month break that can be filled with these flag football leagues. Now, I don't know that it goes the whole summer or the whole spring. We'll, we'll have to see. But there's a huge business opportunity and I think the NFL is trying to capitalize on it.
- [06:42]
Damian Sassauer
Well, Randall, I understand doing a women's league, right? I mean, you've got smaller schools who have women's teams. I mean, it's being adopted by a lot of high schools, certainly in the York, sort of Long Island, New Jersey, et cetera. But here's what I don't understand. Why would the NFL want to have a men's flag football league? I mean, wouldn't that sort of creep in on its existing product? Wouldn't it? Maybe potentially, if you have people who want to play injuries, I'm just thinking out loud here. I mean, why a men's league? I mean, women's makes sense, but you.
- [07:10]
Randall Williams
Know what I mean, I hear you and I think what you're saying is funny. It's like the men should be the tougher guys that play the tackle football. But the reality is when you think about the Olympics, you know, you, the Olympics is going to be, I think it's five on five. It's not traditional seven on seven like you see at some of these high school tournaments and you do, there is a possibility that NFL players will be.
- [07:30]
Damian Sassauer
Playing in the ligament, man. I mean, you know, a hard cut the wrong way. You know, I mean, these are, that's what I'm saying. Like, it's just not making so much sense to me, at least on the.
- [07:38]
Randall Williams
Men'S side that, that's true.
- [07:40]
Michael Barr
But for.
- [07:41]
Randall Williams
If you've ever watched the flag football game, it's completely different. Like, it's, it's drastically different. And so I think the NFL does want to have an opportunity. Now, which one do I think will do better? I think the women's will do 10 times better because you're going to have fans who have that exact perspective that you just did and say, well, if you're so good at this, then you should be playing in the NFL, the actual league, the tackle league. And for the women's, like, I think there's a tremendous opportunity because you have people like Diana Flores who has been a trailblazer for the men's. You'd be hard pressed going up to someone on the street or even someone who loves the game of football through and through and is able to name a men's flag football player. It's just a little, little different.
- [08:24]
Michael Barr
Well, Roger Goodell, he is saying that the Olympics, that's a critical moment for us and they are hoping the NFL to have the Olympic debut of flag football at the Los Angeles games in 2028. Is, is that realistically possible?
- [08:40]
Randall Williams
It's, it's going to be in those games. What is still yet to be determined? And he mentioned that they're, that the NFL and the NFLPA are hoping to work out a deal to allow NFL players to play. But you know, what does it look like for some of these regular flag football players who have been training and competing for Team USA that aren't NFL players? Like, what does the selection process look, look like for the average Joes that are going to be playing against the NFL players? Like, Obviously from the NFL's perspective, this is like a dream team scenario. Where you could have someone like Lamar Jackson, Justin Jefferson, Jamar Chase, maybe Tyreek Hill, like really unguardable fantasy football level lineups on the offense and defensive side of the ball. But at the same time, do those guys understand the same. Do they understand the flag football game the same way that they understand the NFL game?
- [09:33]
Ann Liguori
I'm.
- [09:34]
Randall Williams
I'm not so sure. It's something that they're gonna have to figure out and USA Football is going to have to jump into and be a problem solver.
- [09:41]
Vanessa Perdomo
I don't really know if they need to, you know, know the rules as much because of how dominant they'd probably be against other countries. The one thing that's interesting and to Damian's point about why do a men's league, but does it then create like that problem of the ufl, of the xfl? This is like an actual viable property, maybe that people would watch if the NFL is the one putting it on instead of, you know, outside property.
- [10:07]
Randall Williams
I think that they would operate if they get the right partner, that it won't compete against itself. Because what they're attempting to do from the grassroots level, of course, you know, the NFL and college football go on at the same time. And ideally, if enough schools and the NCAA gets behind this and they back this, that, you know, in four years they're hoping to have women's flag football as a collegiate sport. And I think men's will come along someday, too. But from the women's angle, you have all the momentum building up right now from the high school level to the college level. And then of course, these pro, these pro leagues are coming from the men's angle. I'm not so sure. I'm a little cautious as to if a consumer would watch men's flag football the same way that they would watch women's flag football. Because, like, if you think about it from a position perspective, you have. I'll use the two receivers that I just named, Justin Jefferson and Jamar Chase, and let's just say a guy's name is, you know, Jerry Jackson or something, and he's a receiver that plays flag football. Well, he's going to be compared constantly to be like, oh, yeah, but you play the flag league. Whereas with women's you're starting with a clean slate.
- [11:14]
Damian Sassauer
Let's, let's shift gears here. Earlier this week, you were in Palm Beach, Florida, and it wasn't like you were at Mar a Lago talking tariffs with Trump. You were at the NFL annual meeting, and oh, my goodness, come out of there. We had the Tush push never got banned. We got some replay assist, right? The chain gangs are getting banned, or maybe they're there, you know, getting cast.
- [11:33]
Michael Barr
Off to the side. I don't know.
- [11:34]
Damian Sassauer
And then there's a change to the kickoff rule. I mean, what, what stood out for you the most? What was the vibe on the ground?
- [11:39]
Randall Williams
I was like, I'll tell you, like, there was not a lot of finance stuff happening. There were some stadium proposals. A lot of this meeting was rule changes. And the reality is, I'll start with the tush push. The tush push. Of course, they, they're trying to work out the rules, but they just did not have enough votes. Straight up, there was like, when you have to get one of these things passed, you have to have 24 votes. And that's a lot. That's a lot. And if you listen to what some of these coaches are saying, there are some coaches who aren't against it. I mean, their philosophy is that if you don't want the Eagles to run it, don't let them get to fourth and two or fourth and one or third and one like that. That's, that's what the opposition's viewpoint is. On the kickoff rule. You have the, the kickoff or the touchback moving from the 30 to the 35. I understand that they're trying to make more kickoff returns. At the same time, you're going to get to a point where, like in 15 to 20 yards, people are going to be in field goal range and I guess the NFL is 100, not in. They're not opposed to scoring, but at some point, like, it's like, geez, like there. The logo is right there. And Damien, you remember, and Michael, you remember, and I'm sure, Vanessa, you do, too. A time where the touchback was on the 20.
- [12:47]
Damian Sassauer
Yeah.
- [12:47]
Randall Williams
So now that it's 30, it's on the 35. Obviously, offenses are going to have a tremendous advantage for that and you're going to see a lot more kickoffs being returned or trying to be returned because no one wants to start on the 35. The replay assist, yes, they're, they're, they shifted that again. But they're not going to be doing, they're not going to be throwing flags from, from New York, which is a good thing. I think that that would frustrate fans if a roughing. The passer wasn't called and all of a sudden you have a flag being put down. It. It would just complicate the game a bit. And I'm kind of glad that they didn't do that one. I think I hit on everything, didn't I? Oh, the chain game.
- [13:25]
Michael Barr
Yeah, yeah, the chain game.
- [13:27]
Randall Williams
Yes. The NFL tested this during, during the preseason last year. They ultimately decided to delay it now, especially after that Josh Allen play in the AFC championship game. They're, they're going away with the chain gang. You know, it's a little prehistoric, but I do think that, you know, the chain gang is also going to be standing on the sidelines as a backup if the electronic system doesn't work. We're going to find out how it all operates in the fall.
- [13:50]
Michael Barr
Randall Williams, our very own man. Thank you so much for joining us on the Bloomberg Business of Sports. I love talking football, flag football, chain gang.
- [14:00]
Vanessa Perdomo
I'm telling you, I'm putting my, I'm gonna try out for one of these women's flag football. They have a college system built out like, why not?
- [14:09]
Randall Williams
You absolutely can. We'll put a whole Bloomberg cheerleader squad exactly right.
- [14:12]
Vanessa Perdomo
Yes.
- [14:13]
Michael Barr
Thanks again. Up next, next we turn to the world of college sports in a firm looking to the future of college sports marketing for my colleagues Damian Sassauer and Vanessa Perdomo. I'm Michael Barr. You're listening to the Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio around the world. The FIFA World Cup 26 is coming to North America next summer. It's the ultimate celebration of sports and culture and an opportunity to elevate your company. Get closer to where business meets the beautiful game with a premium hospitality package. Build partnerships in the best seats and suites. Achieve goals over world class food and beverage. Get closer to wins on and off the pitch. Register interest@hospitality.FIFA.com interest join Bloomberg in Houston or via livestream on November 4th. For the future investor finding the opportunities, this 2025 event series will examine how companies are investing in their businesses to create efficiencies, innovating their products and services and improving the customer experience. This series is Presented by Invesco. Q. Q. Q. Register@Bloomberglive.com FutureInvestorHouston that's Bloomberglive.com FutureInvestorHouston this is.
- [15:36]
Ann Liguori
Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio.
- [15:41]
Michael Barr
This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports where we explore the issues in the world of sports. I'm Michael Barr along with my colleagues Damien Sassauer and Vanessa Perdomo. Still to come, we'll talk with longtime sports journalist Ann Liguori to preview the Masters next week. But first, we wanted to check in on the world of college sports as we wrap up March Madness. Learfield is a leading sports marketing firm with a special focus on college sports. The landscape has changed a lot recently with Nil and more. Our own Vanessa Brnomo recently sat down with Learfield president and CEO Cole Gahagan. Let's take a listen to that conversation, Cole.
- [16:22]
Vanessa Perdomo
Give us a little, you know, rundown of what Learfield is. You're, you're a leader of commercial opportunities for college sports. Tell me what that means and give us some background on what it is you do for the college sports landscape.
- [16:33]
Cole Gahagan
That descriptive phrase can mean a whole lot, so I'll try and add to it a bit that helps to contextualize all that we do. First thing that I'll tell you, Vanessa, is it is that I often refer to Learfield when people ask and aren't familiar with our industry or aren't familiar with the company. I often refer to Learfield as the largest, most influential company in college athletics that you've never heard of. It's mostly because we do a good bit in the commercial space in college sports, but we're very largely behind the scenes. We're not a consumer facing brand that most people are aware of. And yet there's so much that we do and drive in and around college sports. We have five operating business units. We have the largest licensing agency in all of college athletics that oversees sort of the licensing ecosystem. So every single time a hoodie or a hat or a product that has a school's brand on it sells in the market, whether that's at a retailer, whether that's online, chances are that clc, our collegiate Licensing Corp. Licensing agency, oversees the reconciliation of that product, everybody making what they should make, and the reporting being clear. So we sort of oversee the licensing ecosystem in a big way in college athletics. Our business sidearm oversees the vast majority of official athletic sites and mobile apps in college sports. PAC Heulin, our ticketing technology company, powers the vast majority of ticketing operations in college sports. And I think the business that we're most known for is our multimedia rights operation, which is the commercialization of athletics departments. Or said differently, the majority of schools outsource the commercialization of their athletics department to companies like Learfield. And we happen to be the largest in the space, which means we work with brand partners and sponsors on their behalf to help grow the revenues at the athletics department through sponsorships, brand associations, media and content that we create, that we create on behalf of our partners and our, and our, our schools. So that's sort of the, the biggest business unit of the, of the five that we have. And the last one is our amplify business that oversees outsourced ticket sales and donor and development for a lot of our school partners. So as you can tell, we do a good bit in college athletics. We have a number of services we provide universities, and as a byproduct of that, we're sort of at the center of most things that happen commercially in the business of college sports.
- [18:46]
Vanessa Perdomo
Yeah, there's a lot there. There is a lot there which is really interesting. You know, you came into this business being CEO in 2020 and then everything changes about a year later, right, where college athletics starts allowing NIL deals. And I'm curious how that changed your business. Obviously, I'm assuming it helped and got a lot bigger. But how, how was that for you guys and how did it change everything?
- [19:11]
Cole Gahagan
Well, if you go back even further than just July 1st of 2021, which is when nil went into effect, to your point, we've in our company experienced nothing but pretty radical change over the last four or five years. There's sort of three big seminal moments that represent those periods of change. One, of course, was a seminal moment for every single human on planet Earth, which was, which was the pandemic. And when you're a sports media and technology company that operates in the rights world like we do, it was a pretty disruptive time. During COVID we had games that didn't play, we had games that played without fans, we had shortened seasons. So to your point about coming in at a pretty wild time of radical change, the first big chapter of that was certainly Covid. The second chapter, as you pointed out, was an IL going into effect on July 1st of 2021. Now what's interesting about that is that will be an evergreen chapter that will never change. The third chapter is one that perhaps is not as well known. But in 2023, we went through a pretty sizable restructuring of our balance sheet. One of the largest out of court restructurings in history was a hugely successful recapitalization for our company and has put us on a path of success since then. So we really have had, Vanessa, these three big chapters of change over the last few years. And one of the things that's interesting as you sort of look back on that journey, is that we had our own sort of self driven episode of change while all of that was playing out, which was modernization of the, of our, of our business. My remit when I came in and took over the company from our board at the time was very simple. It was integrate the business, which as Many conglomerates find themselves in this, in these types of situations. We had sort of an incongruent operation with business units that weren't talking to each other and weren't working sort of hand in glove love to drive enterprise value. And at the same time we had to modernize the business. Second remit was to take a 50 year old operation, if you will, particularly in that multimedia rights space, and to figure out how we evolve it to now power commercialization in college for the next 50 years. And that was really my remit at the time. So we had started independent of those three sort of chapters that I mentioned. We had already started this revolution of our business and that became data centric and it became media and digital product centric, particularly for our multimedia rights business. And the reason that I share that with you is because it really serves as the foundation for what we can go do now around nil. What I mean by that is when we started this journey of modernizing the business around data and media, we knew two things. We knew anything that we would do to create value for our school partners and for brands had to be rooted in the principle of fan connectivity. We had to know who our fans were, we had to have an ability to reach them and we had to have an ability to engage them once we were able to reach them. And that was what led to us building Fan Base, which is now the largest data platform in all of college Sports. We have 107 million known fans, collegiate fans, and we can now talk to those Fans on a 24 hour a day, seven day, seven day a week basis. And then we built Learfield Studios, our digital media and content organization. And to put it into context over the last several years, how quickly we've built that, in fiscal 24 or fiscal year 24 that ended last, last June 30, we delivered 1.2 billion impressions through Learfield Studios and our ability to connect with those fans. And so the reason I, I say all of that is to say we were, we were fortunate to start to build that foundation that has now served nil in a big way before July 1, 2021 happened. So that when the nil era came about, we had the infrastructure and the products in the market to now go deliver value for student athletes, for brands and for universities. Because as you know, or I'm guessing that you probably know and have maybe seen, the bulk of what we're doing in commercialization of NIL these days is social media influencing and content that we create in partnership with student athletes and brands. So I felt it was really important to kind of lay that context because that foundation is what is really going to propel this continued exponential growth of nil opportunities in the years ahead.
- [23:41]
Vanessa Perdomo
I think that's so interesting. I mean, yeah, it's like you got ahead of, of the curve before even really knowing what this landscape was going to be. And I find that to be so, so interesting. One of the things also there that you guys, you know, that I'm thinking of, you know, what you're doing in that space is a lot of these big schools that you work with and you know, they have their own, you know, nil managers, they have nil collectives and things like that. And how do you work with schools individually, programs individually, you know, players individually, with all those different facets going on?
- [24:17]
Cole Gahagan
Well, the first thing to of course keep in mind is while we do a whole heck of a lot around the business of college sports, neither Learfield nor any other company out there can do it all. And we have not only accepted that, but we, we operate with that mentality of our job is, is to stay within the businesses that, that we run today and to optimize those, those businesses and services for our school partners and to augment, to your very point, to augment what they're doing. So what does that mean in practical terms? Well, as you pointed out, most schools at this point, they have their own infrastructure and staffs that They've built since July 1st of 21 now to help support their nil efforts with their student athletes and try and maximize opportunities for those athletes. So our job is to augment that as best we can. And as I said, in practical terms, what that means is a couple of things. We are in the business of creating deals and opportunities for athletes and we're in the business of helping in the licensing space as well. Our platform, Compass, our proprietary technology is what's used by One Team partners and EA Sports and Fanatics. When they onboard student athletes who want to opt into licensing programs, they do so via our Compass platform. It's a mobile first product that allows student athletes to opt into these licensing programs. We now have over 40,000 student athletes who have done just that so that they can participate in licensed product sales, particularly with the video game, the football video game, with EA Sports and Fanatics, Jersey and Jersey T sales. So our job is to augment what happens in the licensing world and very largely do that through Compass and partnerships that we have in place with one team, EA and Fanatics. But our job is also with boots on the ground to assist our schools and our brand partners and our student athletes with deal making to create more commercial brand partnership opportunities for the athletes. And we've done that in a number of ways. But I would say the sort of prevailing method for us has been taking the resources Vanessa that we have on the ground at over 160 schools across the country and adding dedicated team members, NIL coordinators and managers and staff who help us coordinate the NIL initiatives we're putting into place. Whether that's, you know, podcasting a student athlete might do on behalf of a brand or it's a spot that a student athlete might do, or it's a social influencing campaign and content that we're going to create around it, we've now installed at our staffs around the country NIL dedicated resources who are there to facilitate those programs. Sometimes they're there to help sell specifically for NIL deals, sometimes they're on site to help facilitate the deals once they have been sold. And in some cases we have both resources on site. So really through both tech and the resources that we are adding to the staffs that we already have on campuses all over the country, our job is to augment the infrastructure that the universities are building as well to help them maximize these NIL opportunities.
- [27:35]
Michael Barr
That's Deerfield President and CEO Cole Cohagan speaking with Elmer Vanessa Perdomo now. If you missed any of that conversation, find it now on demand on the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast. Find that on Apple, Spotify and all your favorite podcast platforms. Straight ahead, we turn to golf and preview the massive for my colleagues Damien Sassour and Vanessa Perdomo. I'm Michael Barr. You're listening to the Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio. Around the world.
- [28:19]
Ann Liguori
There are two kinds of people in the world.
- [28:21]
Randall Williams
People who think about climate change and people who are doing something about it. On the Zero podcast we talk to both kinds of people. People you've heard of, like Bill Gates.
- [28:30]
Ann Liguori
I'm looking at what the world has.
- [28:32]
Cole Gahagan
To do to get to zero, not.
- [28:34]
Ann Liguori
Using climate as a moral crusade.
- [28:37]
Randall Williams
And the creative minds you haven't heard of yet. It is serious stuff, but never doom and gloom. I am Akshat Rati.
- [28:43]
Damian Sassauer
Listen to Zero every Thursday from Bloomberg.
- [28:45]
Randall Williams
Podcasts on Apple, Spotify or anywhere else.
- [28:48]
Ann Liguori
You get your podcast. You're listening to Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio.
- [28:55]
Michael Barr
Thanks for joining us on the bl. Welcome to the Bloomberg Business of Sports where we explore the big money issues in the world of sports. I'm Michael Barr along with my colleagues Damian Sassour and Vanessa Perdomo. We've got some breaking news on Friday with ESPN reporting that the PGA Tour has rejected the Saudi Arabia Public Investment Fund's most recent offer to invest $1.5 billion into PGA Tour Enterprises, which came with the caveat that the rival LIV Golf League would remain intact. The PIF has funded LIV Golf since its inception in 2022. Before that news, we got a chance to speak with sports journalist Ann Liguori. She covered dozens of pro golf championships and tournaments, including 26 different Masters. She is the author of the book Life on the Lessons and Wisdom from Legends of Golf. And since the Masters is coming up in a few days, we wanted to preview it and get a little pulse check on the world of golf. And welcome back to the Bloomberg Business of Sports.
- [29:59]
Ann Liguori
Hey, it's such a pleasure to be back. Thanks for having me.
- [30:02]
Michael Barr
Well, I guess there's some tournament that's coming up that people love. Oh, yeah, the Masters. Let me just start by the most inane statement. I missed the Eisenhower tree. I know Vanessa was like, what in the hell are you talking about? The Eisenhower tree was big on the course at the Masters and then the storms came along and took it out. And so I'm just showing my age. So now I am.
- [30:29]
Tom Keene
Yeah.
- [30:29]
Ann Liguori
No, no, no, you're right. I miss it, too. And then, you know, they had huge hurricane in the fall and it'll be interesting to see just how many trees. They surely replanted a lot of them. But Roy McElroy in some of his practice rounds there said, yeah, he can tell that there are still a lot of trees missing. So I'll walk around and see just how many more trees were out from the storm last fall.
- [30:57]
Vanessa Perdomo
You mentioned Rory McRoy there and obviously, you know, he's trying to come in and win, you know, and create the career Grand Slam. But one thing that I saw recently that I was really struck by and I didn't notice was, you know, it's been since 2014. And that gap that he hasn't won a Grand Slam is the same gap that it was when Tiger woods kind of went away from golf because of everything that was going on and then came back and won the Masters in 2019. I mean, it's that same 11 year gap. So what's that, you know, is there a lot of pressure for him, you know, going into this round? Is this just a great storyline that people are paying attention to?
- [31:35]
Ann Liguori
That's a really great stat and great that you brought that up. Look, it's the first time Roy McIlroy is actually coming into this Masters, first time in a long time with two wins. And he won at Pebble Beach a couple months ago. He wanted the players, even though he was not his best off the tee. Last week at the Houston Open, he was tied for fifth. So he's playing really, really well. So, you know, it has been a long time since he's won a major title and every year at the Masters, I mean, this is the one major that he has not won, so he hopes to win it to complete the career Grand Slam. So, yeah, there's always pressure on Rory to win a Master's title, but it just so happens that, you know, this is the best he's looked coming into the Masters in a long, long time. So, yeah, there's even more pressure on him. So never stops the pressure.
- [32:30]
Damian Sassauer
And I'd love to ask you about Augusta, but really, I mean, what's the point? I mean, now that Tigers, tomorrow's golf league is out there and you can just hit into screens, I mean, is there really any point in actually going or watching the Masters on television? I mean, let's, I'm kidding. But, you know, let's talk about Scottie Scheffler, right? I mean, it's his to lose. He's the clear cut favorite. What do you think Scotty's chances are this weekend? What are your thoughts?
- [32:52]
Ann Liguori
Well, you know, he looks really solid. I mean, he came in last week at the Houston Open and he was just not 100% himself. You know, he had that weird accident with his hand during the holidays where he needed stitches. He cut himself with glass. And so he missed a couple tournaments early in the season. And then he came in and at Pebble beach, tied for 9th, Phoenix Open, tied for 25th, Genesis tied for 3, Arnold Palmer tied for 11, the Players tied for 20th. And he just wasn't the Scottie Scheffler that, you know, we all have come to know and love right after last year's incredible season. But I have to say last week he looked a lot more like the Scottie Scheffler that we're used to seeing. He tied for second. And so, yes, he's still the favorite to win this week at Augusta National. And, you know, we'll see if he can put it all together. It would be great if he can play. Like we all know that he's capable of playing.
- [33:51]
Michael Barr
And you mentioned something, Damian, about Tiger Woods. He's not going to be there. And I know he pulled the old April Fool's Okie Doke saying that he was going to play and no, it was an April Fool's gag, but he's not there. He has a serious Achilles injury. How much of an impact will it be just simply because Tiger woods isn't there?
- [34:10]
Ann Liguori
Yeah, that April Fool's got a lot of people. I saw some people, like notable personalities, like, responding to that April Fool's joke that he would be playing by saying, oh, wow, it's always great to see you at Augusta. But no, the fact that, look, there's so many stars in the game now and there's so much coverage on social media. And the Masters, by the way, is doing so much social media coverage, you know, starting with this Augusta National Women's Am and previewing the Masters tournament that, yeah, everybody's gonna miss Tiger. But look, there's so many great storylines, you know, with Scotty and Rory and, and all the newcomers. I just interviewed Rafael Campos, who's gonna make his master's debut. He's from Puerto Rico and he's gonna have all of Puerto Rico rooting for him and talked to Joe Highsmith, who wanted the cognizant, and he's making his debut. So, I mean, there's just so many great stories. Ludwig Oberg. So, yeah, the fact that Tiger won't be playing, I mean, everybody wants to see T. But I mean, he hasn't played. He just hasn't played. He's had one thing after another. And, you know, now he's dating Donald Trump Jr's ex wife. So I think he's busy.
- [35:28]
Vanessa Perdomo
Maybe that'll help. I don't know. Let's see. So I know who I'm putting my money on. Boricua Pride, baby. Let's go. So I'd love to talk a little bit about sports gambling here because obviously sports gambling is huge. It's helped a lot of sports, you know, engage younger fans, engage other people. But with golf, it feels like it might be a little bit harder. I mean, Scottish Scheffler is the favorite, but his odds are still plus 350 Royal McElroys at second and he's plus 650 on DraftKings. Is it good for golf that it's so wide open or is it actually really, like, frustrating because you can't actually. It's really hard to pick a winner.
- [36:02]
Ann Liguori
I'm not a big, you know, sports better, but I did tell my ask my brother to put some money on some of these newbies, you know, because then the odds are seem to be worthwhile. But you know, I honestly don't bet that much on golf and I honestly can't believe that it has kind of gotten to the point where we all can bet on golf. But I know I'm from a different century and I know how adamant that, you know, opposed to betting on golf they were for so many years. But, but it's just all now about the money. And you know, these players are making so much money, the fans are getting into it. It's just become so popular in so many ways with social media and now with, with gambling. So, yeah, I mean, I would think it's, it's hard to pick a winner for sure, but if you pick somebody with those crazy odds, you could really have a great payday. So I tend to go with the players that nobody expects to win. Then you're making some serious cash.
- [37:02]
Damian Sassauer
Well, I know one gambling superfan who certainly got some money riding on FanDuel, and that's Jim Nant, who wrote the forward for Life on the Green, Lessons and Wisdom from Legends of Golf. He's a huge Houston Cougars alum, huge booster there. Houston's in the finals. I mean, he's got to be rolling high. Talk to us a little bit about Mr. Nant's latest words on retirement. And he's claiming that he's going to retire in 2036. Is he really looking at.
- [37:29]
Ann Liguori
He told me that. He told me that on my talking golf show on WFAN on Sunday morning Things. He told me that like two years ago somebody picked it up. He must have been talking, I don't know, being interviewed by somebody. And he said it again. So look, I feel bad that he's not doing the SaaS anymore, but you know, I get it. I mean, the travel schedule going from the championship game to Augusta national to do the Masters, I mean, he's been at it for so many years. So yeah, thank goodness he'll still be around for many years to come. But I have to say one of my best memories every year at Augusta Nationals is standing next to Jim on Thursday morning, very early when the honorary starters come out. There's like two lines we all line up and you know, Jack Nicklaus and Gary Player and now Tom Watson, they walk right by us and Jim and I always have a great catch up. You know, he wrote the foreword for my book Life on the Lessons and Wisdom from Legends of Golf. And I'm so very grateful to Jim, I mean, such a legend himself, to devote a couple pages about my career and my book as in the forward. So Jim's the best. And he'll always be the master's voice to me, no matter how long he continues to do it or when he decides to stop. But, yeah, it was interesting to see that he put that out there publicly.
- [38:51]
Michael Barr
I know we're getting short on time, but I want to talk about Brooks Koepka for a second. Now. He has hinted that he wants to return to the PGA from liv. Two questions. One, I thought in the Masters, that rule really didn't apply, but how can Koepka get back into the pga?
- [39:09]
Ann Liguori
That's the loaded question right now. He denies saying that Freddie Couples is the one that really put that quote out that Freddie Couples said, I've been talking to Brooks Koepka, and Brooks really wants to get back on the PJ Torrent. Brooks is under contract with liv, so Brooks can't really. He's not in a position where he can really talk about getting back on the PGA Tour until his contract with LIV is over. Right now, there is no reunification. There's no deal between PGA Tour and the public investment fund, which owns live. It seems to be at a standstill. It's been, what, couple of years now that they've been negotiating? And at the Players Championship, the PGA Tour commissioner, Jay Monahan said, listen, we will not negotiate in public. But the little information that they can divulge is, is that they want to see golf reunified, meaning PGA Tour players and live players playing together. But that's all he basically said. And it just seems to me like these talks are going nowhere. So these the top players from LIV can play at the Masters. It'll be interesting to see if they'll be allowed to rejoin the PGA Tour. Maybe they're waiting for Brooks Koepka's contract with LIV to expire, but the PJ Tour and the public investment fund have not come to any agreement. So it's still up in the air as to what's going to happen.
- [40:35]
Michael Barr
Ann Liguria, you mentioned Jim Nance had written the foreword for your book, Life on the Lessons and Wisdom from Legends of Golf. And by the way, what a fabulous book to me is one of the best golf books out there in the sport ever. And you, you really kick booty with that. That's really cool.
- [40:53]
Ann Liguori
I really appreciate that. It, you know, it's a very uplifting book. It really transcends golf. I have these 12 legends, six men, six women, everybody from Tom Watson and Jack Nicklaus and Gary Player to Annika Sorenstam and Bernard Longer and Nancy Lopez and Padre Carrington they all talk about what they bring from, you know, the golf course, from their iconic golf careers to life. And so you can be a die hard golfer and really enjoy the stories in the book or you don't even have to have an interest in golf and still be inspired by the wisdom that they share. So I'm very proud of it. All 12 legends actually thanked me for including them, which kind of shows you what amazing people they are. I'm so thrilled that we're spreading some positive, inspirational messages out there. So pretty proud of it.
- [41:44]
Michael Barr
A shout out to you because you're also the founder and president of the Ann LeGray Foundation. You raise money for cancer research and care through charity golf events and more. And that needs to be mentioned.
- [41:54]
Cole Gahagan
Also.
- [41:54]
Michael Barr
You are first rate. And thank you so much for joining us on the Bloomberg Business Sports.
- [42:00]
Ann Liguori
Always a pleasure and enjoy the Masters.
- [42:03]
Michael Barr
And thank you for joining us for my colleagues Damien Sassour and Vanessa Perdomo, I'm Michael Barr. Tune in again next week for the latest on the stories moving big old money in the world of sports. You're listening to the Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio around the world.
- [42:28]
Tom Keene
This is Tom Keene inviting you to join me for the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. It's about making you smarter each and every business day. We bring you a recap of what happened overnight in Europe and Asia, the day's economic data and complete coverage of the US Market open. We cover stocks, bonds, commodities, currencies, even crypto, all the information you need to excel. Bloomberg Surveillance also brings you the analysis behind the headlines. We do that with lengthy conversations with our expert guests, the smartest names in economics, finance, investment and international relations. We do all this live each and every weekday that bring you the best analysis in our daily podcast search for Bloomberg surveillance on YouTube, Apple, Spotify or anywhere else you listen on the East Coast. Listen at lunch and on the west coast when you wake up. That's the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast with me, Tom Keene, along with Paul Sweeney and Lisa Mateo. Subscribe today wherever you get your podcasts.