← Bloomberg Business of Sports
Bloomberg Business of Sports
Super Agent Rich Paul's Push Into Athletic Wear; VC Firms Eye New Leagues
00:38:52
Loading summary
Transcript1 lines
- [00:00]
A
The FIFA World Cup 26 is coming to North America. Get closer to where business meets the beautiful game with a hospitality package featuring premium seats and entertainment. Get closer to wins on and off the pitch. Register interest@hospitality.FIFA.com Interest Save over $200 when you book weekly stays with VRBO this winter if you need to work, why not work from a chalet? If you haven't seen your college besties since, well college, you need a week to fully catch up in a snowy cabin. And if you have to stay in a remote place with your in laws, you should save over $200 a week. That's the least we can do. So you might as well start digging out the long johns because saving over $200 on a week long snowcation rental is in the cards book now@vrbo.com get your mother loving ears on because your big time radio DJs got news. PayPal lets you choose how you want to pay for all the stuff. With PayPal I can pay in store, pay online or pay overtime. What's that? You want this translated into song I hope you're sitting down. You can pay your own way. You keep those ears on, you hear. Don't just pay baby. PayPal. Learn more@paypal.com Bloomberg Audio Studios podcasts Radio News this is the business of sports. Sports are the greatest unscripted show on earth. The next generation of players really grew up with tech and believe in tech. Your face is your ticket. Your face is your wallet. Your face is your access to a club. These are such iconic and important buildings for businesses. For fans. Covid was one of the best things that ever happened to golf. The NFL is a bulletproof business. Racing's unique because there is absolutely no reason why we can't compete with the guys. Come on, it's pro pickleball, real. Are people really going to tune into this? If you're playing Moneyball with a huge bag of money, you're going to be really, really good. Bloomberg Business of Sports From Bloomberg Radio, this is the Bloomberg Business of Sports where we explore the big money issues in the world of sports. I'm Michael Barr. I'm Damian Sassauer. And I'm Vanessa Perdomo. Coming up, we'll hear from sports super agent and Clutch Sports founder Rich Paul for conversation about the sports apparel industry and his sportswear company's deal with Balance. The apparel business from a sports performance perspective is a very crowded space. It just is. And it's very hard to build a brand. Most companies really start to see you know, a positive impact probably in about year seven. But we have a great partner in New Balance. We have an unbelievable team in terms of our leadership group. All that is on the way on the Bloomberg business of sports. But first let's talk venture capital. That's right. Michael Barr. VC firm firms are seeing big value in sports and they're pushing into new and emerging leagues. Earlier this year, Dubai based investment firm 885 Capital took a stake in the Professional Fighters League or better known as the pfl. Here now to take us through the deal and what VC firms are doing in the sports world are Sudeep Ramnani and Don Davis. Ramnani is founder and managing partner at 885 Capital and Davis is founder and chairman of the PFL. Sudeep. Don. Whoa. Welcome to the Bloomberg business of sports. Great to be here. Hi Michael, thanks for having us. Don, I'm going to start with you. You have partnered with 885 Capital and you are the Professional Fighters League founder and chairman. And now this sport is really going to take off. Tell us more about that please. Look, we're super fortunate to partner with Sudeep and his partner Jay. There's money out there but there's not money that comes from great entrepreneurs like 8Five. They've built their own major business. They know entrepreneurial energy, entrepreneurial ideas and how to build entrepreneurial companies. Super fortunate. What do they bring to the table in terms of helping PFL in the next chapter and city? We want to hear from you on your ethos when you're going into investments like with the pfl, in other similar things like with Baller League, these, these challenger properties. I'm interested to hear what, what value you feel in those investments and what you saw in the pfl. I mean I think we're in like a very interesting period of time in the sector in general, right? I mean there's so many different trends that, that, that have, have made these leagues interesting, right? Like so many inflection points from, from a distribution standpoint of course we've seen that like YouTube is one of, you know, is in the living room. Like there's a major change, right? Cord cutting is a real thing. Like there's a major change in the way in which in terms of infrastructure, streaming platforms have become global brands. Right. So obviously there's that inflection point in distribution that we just see that the right property can scale globally very, very quickly. Right. And can reach a global audience very quickly. And then of course there's an inflection point in terms of how content is being consumed. You know, the fragmentation of the way in which content is being consumed by a short form like what is the way, you know, what is the way to sometimes monetize that fragment in the case of that fragmentation. So where there are these inflection points and changes and of course obviously the advent of AI has created a very, has created proliferation of content in general. Right? Because you know, sports is entertainment and content is. And there are other forms of entertainment other than sports. Right? But with AI and with generative AI we see so much such a huge volume of content at the base of the pyramid that suddenly I think there's this premium on live sports, on really high quality live sports content that can't be, can't be replaced or really disrupted by AI. So these different kind of inflection points are super interesting and create opportunity, right? But then of course where there's opportunity, often you see bubbles and you see this overexcitement, right? So there's obviously definitely a lot of crazy decks coming our way from all sorts of people almost that want to be entrepreneurs and let's see whether they succeed. So there's definitely going to be a lot of casualties I think in the space as people. People also say, but in the case of PFL and Boulder League, I think we've encountered really solid management teams that are building real businesses for which there's just real user demand and where they're building IP for the long term and they own that IP and they have the ability to control an ecosystem end to end, that they're building a direct relationship with their fan and their user base. And for us, coming from an Internet background, that's very valuable to us like speaking to businesses where there's a, you know, where there's an understanding of the end user and it's simply there should sounds obvious, but just people who are looking to create value for their customers. Right. And we found that with great entrepreneurs and management team at both Boulder League and pfl. Well Sudeep, there's no impact, there's no questioning the impact cord cutting has been having on media, you know, and media rights and broadcast rights writ large. And I believe that's how you and Don got to know each other a bit right by when PFL was negotiating its African broadcast rights. And I think that's what led to your investment in the league, if I'm not mistaken. Talk to us a little bit about what that experience was like now for our audience. In addition, 885, you own Africa's largest sports book, SportyBet and Sporty TV. Talk to us a little bit about your approach to investing in the world of sports and what drew you to Don. Yeah, of course, as you said, I come from more of an operator background and have built a multitude of businesses from scratch, including Sporty Group, but also numerous kind of fintechs across emerging markets including Africa and Latin America. As you said, we encountered John, I think we encountered Don because of a relatively small broadcast deal actually that brought PFL to our attention and obviously we found it fascinating that pfl, you know, an American New York headquartered company had the bravery to go to somewhere like Africa and seek to build something, a local league from scratch. Right. Because that takes long term vision. That takes, you know, really a lot of, a lot of, a lot of grit and, and kind of visionary thinking. So, so that definitely drew us to the, to us, to the project. But of course you can always partner with a project or just simply, you know, take a more short term outlook. In the case of 885 Capital, it's an independent investment firm owned, owned by us and makes independent decisions. Obviously the introduction came or the way we met PFL was, was through the fact that we own one of you know, Africa's largest free to air sports broadcaster, but then explore BFO for its own merits. Right. Not just because of its if it's Africa project, but really actually more because of its global ambition, because of, because of the category, because of the management team. And yeah, I mean it was interesting. Don Davis is an interesting character, a polarizing one. But I've really enjoyed getting to know him and I think it's going to be entertaining having this chat with him. That's a compliment from a fellow entrepreneur. I was going to ask how you liked that categorization there, Don. Don Zadip had said a lot there about how PFL is building into this global brand. And I heard you say in an interview earlier this year, I believe that you think the Big four in North America is eventually going to be the NFL, NBA, Premier League and mma. And I'm interested to hear your thoughts on when you're building out a global brand and you're having these deep roots and study in, in the Middle east and other places how you think that's going to help build the league here as well and stamp the North American, you know, platform and grow that as well when you're competing with domestic leagues here. Yeah, like Sadeep, I'm an entrepreneur but unlike Sadeep, who's young at 39. I'm 62. So I've lived through three major disruptive cycles. On the digital side, I was at AOL in the, in the formative period of Internet. 1 dago mid 90s. Money always follows consumer behavior. So money always follows eyeballs and audience. Mma has the third largest audience in the world today. 650 million fans trails only soccer and basketball. But the money hasn't followed because MMA is only a 30 year old sport. All other sports are about 100 years old. So we know that MMA will be a much bigger commercial business. It just takes time. No different from in 1997 in AOL, people are still putting money in magazines, publishing. You know that's going to change because of behavior. It just took 10 years after that period for that to happen. So this will happen. Not smart enough to know is it two years or seven years. But the money has already started to move, as evidenced by the massive UFC Paramount deal and also some of the other sponsorship that will follow. So MMA will be there. The only two MMA companies are UFC and pfl because of the athlete base. Those are the only two companies that have top athletes. And the global distribution bases. The only two companies have global distribution. So why we love partnering with Steep and others like them is they're going where the puck is going. Yes. Football, basketball, baseball, those are great investments. They'll make 4,6% a year. But how do you make 5 or 10 times your money? If you take a 20 year horizon, you have to think different. You don't make 5 or 10 times your money by not thinking differently. And all the trends tell you MMA is it. Have we hit the point, Don, where if you're in sports, a venture capital is critical to the whole thing in order to see a profit or to invest in the team itself? Yes, and I'll answer that two ways. Private equity money, or call it big traditional money, is essential for the bigger sports because they need to build bigger complexes, real estate and entertainment to support their sports. That's why you're seeing basketball sell at record numbers at 5 billion. They need broader revenue streams, but that's private equity. Emerging sports like the PFL or others need venture capital because they're not going to be profitable for a while. So they need true builders, true visionaries like Sadeep and885, like some of our other investors. Knighthead Capital. So I say yes, you need capital to build companies, but it's two very different kinds of capital. Traditional billions will go into the big four and call it those who are looking for outsized returns or builders will be the venture capitalists that go into the emerging leagues. And Sudeep, can you expand more on that? Yeah, honestly like I don't really, I don't think too much about the types of capital, you know, I guess that's. John obviously has been through an incredible journey with PFL and he's had to, you know, keep finding ways for the company to survive and raise funding. And I'm really, I really admire that, that resilience and persistence that's taken to get this far. I don't really again I just like, I like to build stuff and I like to see, I like to just think of what's focus on not thinking about the fundraising for the company. Obviously where we have capital we'd like, we just like to look at a company that's creating value for customers, right? Like as in whatever, whatever capital makes sense. Whoever's like, like is it a convenient source of capital? Is it on the right terms? And like as an investor that's, that's creating value, right? Like I don't, I don't think it matters like what does venture mean? Right? Because they're trying to, because they'll get outsized returns. I'm not even thinking, I don't think we're even thinking or trying to project specific returns. I think we're just thinking like is there demand for this? Like who are the other players? Like can this team succeed? Like it's clear that there's an opportunity. So can this team succeed? Does it have the assets and does it have the, you know, the Runway to succeed? And you know, like obviously we hope that other co investors take that, have that same mindset and are just focused on, on creating value and not being disruptive. And I think actually there are the guys that are supporting PFL today like, like Tom mentioned, like Knighthead and others are really great co investors and I think there's a bright future ahead. Our thanks to 885 Capital founder and managing partners Sudeep Ramani and PFL founder and chairman Don Davis for joining us. Coming up we turn to a management company that's a big part of NFL superstar Travis Kelce success off the field for Bloomberg business of sports Damian Sassour and Vanessa Perdomo. I'm Michael Barr. You are listening to the Bloomberg business of sports Bloomberg Radio around the world. The FIFA World Cup 26 is coming to North America next summer. It's the ultimate celebration of sports and culture and an opportunity to elevate your company. Get closer to where business meets the beautiful game with a premium hospitality package. Build partnerships in the best seats and suites. Achieve goals over world class food and beverage. Get closer to wins on and off the pitch. Register interest@hospitality.FIFA.com Interest Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder? With a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other, one for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting. Before you know it, you are drowning in software. Instead of growing your business, this is where Odoo comes in. Odoo is the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all in one fully integrated platform that handles everything CRM, accounting, inventory, e commerce, HR and more. No more app overload, no more juggling logins, just one seamless system that makes work easier. And the best part? Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. It's built to grow with your business whether you are just starting out or already scaling up. Plus it's easy to use, customizable and designed to streamline every process so you can focus on what really matters and running your business. Thousands of businesses have made the switch so why not you try Odoo for free@odoo.com that's o d o o.com get your mother loving ears on because your big time radio DJs got news. PayPal lets you choose how you want to pay for all the stuff. With PayPal I can pay in store, pay online or pay over time. What's that? You want this translated into song? I hope you're sitting down. You can pay your own way. You keep those ears on, you hear. Don't just pay baby PayPal. Learn more@paypal.com this is Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio. This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports where we explore the big money issues in the world of sports. I'm Michael Barr. I'm Damian Sassow and joining us for this conversation is friend of the show Bloomberg US Sports business reporter Randall Williams. Athletes today are going beyond endorsements and media appearances. Travis Kelce is a great example of a current NFL star that is looking to make himself into a cultural and business powerhouse beyond sports. Andre Ains is one of the guys behind the curtain helping Travis Kelce. He's co head of 3 Art Sports and joins us now to discuss the evolving business of being a multi platform superstar. Andre, welcome to the Bloomberg Business of Sports. Thank you. Thanks for having me. You are giving advice to athletes. It used to be the big thing was get an Endorsement because you're going to get some money. Now you're saying, look, it's equity over endorsements. Explain that, please. Yeah, I, I think it's, it's one of those things where this, this industry is evolving, it's changing a lot. And I think, you know, athletes are starting to recognize the value that they can bring to a lot of these consumer brands and products and things they promote and endorse. You know, so oftentimes, you know, you have to, it's a learned behavior, right? You have to go through a career where you understand what it's like to be a brand ambassador, you understand what it's like to promote products, being on set, you know, shooting commercials, doing interviews, and really being a very value add partner to the brands that you're working with. And then I think that is what gives, you know, clients the ability to own their own brands, build their own products, you know, and create their own things. You know, But I think it's something you have to go through, right? So, you know, we've worked with a lot of clients, we've been in this business for a very long time and you know, credit to the clients, you know, the guys that came before us, that, you know, the LeBron's of the world, the Kevin Durant of the world, that you really set the tone for athlete ownership and being, you know, and I quote, more than an athlete. Andres Randall Williams here. And I'll start by giving you a hard time because I have been trying to get in touch with you for a very, very long time. And I thought that, you know, because I'm from Ohio, just like you, I thought that there might be a special place for me, but you know, that's neither here nor there. Nice. What part of Ohio, I have to ask. I'm from Columbus. Okay, Very nice, very nice. You're from Cincinnati. I think I know that pretty well. Right. So from Cleveland. Okay. Went to St. Edward High School in Cleveland and went down to Cincinnati, went to school there, graduated there and spent a lot of time there for sure. So let's stay in Ohio and talk about arguably your most popular client. And maybe that isn't an argument at all, but Travis Kelce, earlier this year you negotiated a nine figure deal that is, is absolutely monumental. I mean, you don't see that from athletes too often. You see a lot of deals that are out there, but of course, with that huge number, I wonder what went into that, how much work they put in and from your vantage point, how, how easy was it? Because I imagine with all of the hype around the Kelsey's the last couple of years that maybe. Maybe this wasn't as difficult as. As it may have been. Nice. So not. You're referring to the podcast? Yep. Okay, so that was a couple years ago, but I would say it's. It's one of those things where, you know, it was when athlete podcasting was becoming a thing a couple years back. And I think one of the things that we wanted to make sure was that the brothers knew the amount of time and attention that it was going to take to be able to be successful in the space, and we didn't rush it. You know, we spent years meeting with companies, meeting with producers to understand what the landscape looks like and how we can best position our clients to be successful. And I think that was a key difference in. And why they were able to become successful. There's a lot of athlete podcasts out there, but, you know, their dynamic is insane, you know, and their brothers and their chemistry, also insane. And it also helped, you know, the year we launched the podcast, they both made it to the super bowl, so it put a lot of eyeballs on what they were doing. And the weekly banter and conversations is something that I think a lot of people can resonate with, and it worked from there. But I think it goes back to our pitch. Always having ownership, right? The brothers own new heights. That is their ip. We help them create the ip, but they own it. And I think their ability to be able to build something like that for their family is ultimately what drove us to be able to work with Wondery and be able to negotiate a deal of that magnitude. Andre, you've been representing athletes forever, right? I mean, A and A Management, recently acquired, I think earlier this year by 3 Arts Sports. You've worked with, I mean, Spotify, Hugo Boss, Louis Vuitton, EA Sports, you name it. Let's go back to growing up. Your parents owned 17 Burger King franchises in Cleveland and Cincinnati and Atlanta, I believe. And, you know, take us back, take us to those days and how that prepared you to deal with some of these, you know, large partners that, you know, you know, you guys, as a startup, have really gotten close to. And I mean, like, kudos to you all for doing it, but, I mean, what'd you learn from those early years? We come from an entrepreneur family. I think we spent a lot of time in the back of Burger Kings, you know, in the offices. Right. And watched our mom and dad, you know, manage and build the business. We were involved in their expansion to Atlanta we were involved in the expansion to Cincinnati. And when I say involved, it's we're in the back seat, you know, when they would go visit sites and meet with people to kind of build and grow the business and things like that. Right. We didn't know what was going on. We were kids, right? But what our ability to be able to be exposed to that type of lifestyle at such a young age, I think resonates with how we work now, right? We watched our parents do the work, we watched our parents walk the sites. We watched our parents go through the things they had to go through managing a franchise like Burger King in the early 90s. And one of the things that stands out to me the most is a lot of my dad's partners were Browns players, Indians players. And we got to go hang out with Indians pitchers and their families. And we would go hang out, we would go to Detroit with. So, you know, like, you know, investors play for the Pistons. Back in the day, like I was at the 04 Pistons finals, you know, when I was a child. Right. Look, you know, and it's just like looking back, it was like one of those things where I'm like, you never know, like the rooms that you're in and why you're in those rooms. But I think that was what propelled us into being like 14 years ago when athlete management wasn't a thing. It was always agents were doing this and doing everything right. Where we were like, no, let's flip that. We think we can be more managers. We can help them build businesses, we can help them, you know, create strategy around the things that they want to do. Right. And we grew up without social media. You know, we didn't even know what social media was. Right. I think Facebook was just coming into play when I was headed to college. So, you know, being able to, you know, come up with social media strategies and digital media strategies is a fairly new thing, but it still kind of fits along with, you know, owning your ip, having ownership in the things that you do, and having a strategy when it comes to doing that. And early on we learned that like agents just didn't do that. They didn't focus on that, they didn't have the capacity for that. And it's not a problem. But we saw a void and we worked for years to try to fill that void. And luckily somebody like Travis Kelsey trusted us early on to be able to build that out. And now looking at how it is today, we had a 10 year head start on the way the industry is going in my Opinion. Well, Andre, I love that analogy of you in the backseat looking at potential Burger King franchise sites. I mean, do you think that experience helped you identify, you know, some of these properties that you work with? I'm talking like, you know, Casa Azul, Garage beer, Accelerator, Active Energy. These are new properties. They're not household names, or they. They are now, but they weren't then. And, you know, take us through, you know, your ability to kind of identify these kind of new properties, these up and coming properties, to affiliate yourselves with them or rather your clients with them and take things forward and just absolutely explode. Yeah, that. That's another great question. I think the experience with burking was like, we. We got to see the things that my mom and dad didn't know, right? We got to see the things that failed and why they failed. Right? And I think a big part of what we do for our clients is creating a moat around the opportunities, right? We take a. So that's a word that's used in finance, right? You. When you do making it, do it, put together an investment strategy. You want to look at companies that have a moat around what they're building, you know, that have. Where. Warren Buffett, man, what a legend, you know, and I had been lucky enough to be able to have the right partners to show me what a moat is, you know, from. From, you know, distribution to understanding a management team and how they want to work and. And understanding marketing and strategy behind that. Right? And I think that's the kind of approach we take when it comes to things like accelerator. Right? One of accelerator. The moat we saw there was NSF certification back when we started investing. You know, energy drinks were not NSF certified. So most athletes, maybe people don't know this, but most athletes weren't able to drink energy drinks because of the ingredients that were in those products. Right? And I think garage beer is another one, right? It's one of the. It's a light beer. It's in the light beer category. And the light beer category has not been disrupted for years. Everyone's been drinking the same beer all the time, right? And I think the garage beers and it's always, you know, not to name any of the other brands, but it's one of those things where you see the boom of, like, ready to drink categories of, like, seltzers and things like that. We took that same approach with the beer. People drink beer every day. People can relate to beer also, you know, it's a great story behind garage Beer. I met, you know, we've. We invested in a company called Hilo Nutrition. And the CEO of that company is now the CEO of Garage Beer. And we had a pretty successful exit in that company early on. And when that company exited, Garage Beer was his next venture. And we've built. And we've built such a great relationship with him that when it was time for us to get involved, you know, they hit a certain inflection point. That moat that we're talking about was built, and we were able to add, you know, the brand value that the Kelsey brothers bring, and they were ready and prepared for that. Right. Because a lot of times, you know, I think where we have a lot of success is we're talking to brands. We are able to sit down with them and talk about a marketing strategy from our client standpoint. So sometimes you turn on the engine before it's even. The company's even ready. Right? And we're one of those people where we're like, we want to make sure that the company is ready for the amount of attention that they're going to get by aligning their name in their product with somebody like Travis and Jason Kelsey. And I think Garage Beer, we hit a perfect inflection point. Then it went viral, and we've been growing a great business ever since and partnered with the Rational Capital earlier this year. And now we're all about growth, you know, moving forward into the future. Back to the equity over endorsements, as one thing, if an athlete gets an endorsement because he or she knows they're going to get paid for that endorsement. When you go into your own business, yes, I hope and pray that everybody does well, but sometimes people don't. Can you expand more on that? I think we have done a very good job in creating opportunities for our clients that also we build a mode around the structure. Our job is to mitigate risk as much as possible. So when we get into an investment opportunity and we choose equity over an endorsement, we have to find ways to incentivize that company to pay our clients, even. Even though they also have equity, if that makes sense. So typically, the deals that we negotiate, there is an equity component, but there also is a cash component. And when the company hits certain metrics, that cash is paid to our clients. And in our mind, hopefully, that mitigates the dollars that they're investing. Right. Or there's a situation where sometimes that, you know, our clients are granted equity on behalf of their. On the behalf of the things that they're doing for the brand. So, you know, not everything works out perfectly. But also we've been very strategic in investing and partnering with companies that are very are well established before we insert ourselves right. I think a lot of the times athletes feel like they need to be the one right from the ground up. Right? And we're more let's meet these companies, let's meet these founders, let's meet these CEOs, let's build a relationship with them and when we find the opportunity to work with them at the right time, let's do that. Our thanks to 3 Arts Sports Co head Andre Eanes for joining us. Up next, we stick with the growing world of sports beyond the playing field with super agent Rich Paul for Damian Sassauer. I'm Michael Barr. You are listening to the Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio around the world. Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder? With a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other. One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting. Before you know it, you are drowning in software. Instead of growing your business, this is where Odoo comes in. Odoo is the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all in one fully integrated platform that handles everything CRM, accounting, inventory, E commerce, HR and more. No more app overload, no more juggling logins, just one seamless system that makes work easier. And the best part? Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. It's built to grow with your business whether you are just starting out or already scaling up. Plus it's easy to use, customizable and designed to streamline every process so you can focus on what really matters running your business. Thousands of businesses have made the switch so why not you try Odoo for free@odoo.com that's o d o o.com get your mother loving ears on because your big time radio DJs got news. PayPal lets you choose how you want to pay for all the stuff. With PayPal I can pay in store, pay online, or pay overtime. What's that? You want this translated into song? I hope you're sitting down. You can pay your own way. You keep those ears you hear. Don't just pay baby. PayPal. Learn more@paypal.com Some moments in life stay with you forever. In a special segment of On Purpose brought to you by ebay, I share a story about a book that changed my life early in my journey and how I was able to find the same exact edition on ebay. It was more than just a purchase, it was a reconnection with a memory that shaped my purpose. There are certain books that don't just give you information, they shift the way you see the world. I remember reading one when I was younger. That completely changed me. Years later, I found myself thinking about that book again. I wanted the same edition back, not a reprint, that exact one. So I started searching and that's when I found it on ebay. That's what I love about ebay, where you can rediscover the pieces of your past that still inspire your present. Shop ebay for millions of finds, each with a story. Ebay things people love. Listen to on purpose on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. This is Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio. Thanks for joining us on the Bloomberg Business of Sports. We explore the big money issues in the world of sports. I'm Michael Barr. I'm Damian Sassauer. And I'm Vanessa Pomo. We'll round out the show today by taking a listen to a special conversation with sports super agent Rich Bowl. The Clutch Sports founder and CEO is branching out into the sports apparel business with Klutch Athletics and has a new partnership with New Balance. Bloomberg TV anchor Romaine Bostick sat down with Paul for an extended conversation about the sports apparel business, his career, and how all of his various interests all tie back to his love of sports. Let's take a listen to that conversation. Well, Clutch Athletics, you know, my thought process was really just focus on community, giving that voice back to the consumer. When I was growing up, that's where I learned how to really build my confidence and style and deciding what kind of fit me and the mantra I was trying to build as a young man. And so I found that being fun, you know, going to the store and identifying the brand that, that I really align with authentically. And so when I looked at the marketplace, you know, I've seen a lot of things that was kind of taken kind of out of the, the realm of, of, of the youth and community and the voice of the athlete and the voice of the consumer. And so felt like there was a world where, you know, the next brand for kids to actually believe in could be us. So that's Clutch Athletics. I'm curious about it, too. We've talked a lot on this show about some of the bigger legacy brands like Nike and Adidas and the idea that you've had so many upstart brands really make an impact over the last few years, whether it's like Hoka and on in the running Space and other sports as well. I saw you hired a long time Nike executive, sort of helped run things there. And I am curious as to how sort of a mega brand or a mega industry like Nike translates into a smaller upstart. Are there parallels? Yeah, you know, a guy like Scott Munson, I think that's who referring to coming on. He's been a game changer right away. It's hard to, to disregard the expertise that he has and the experience that he has. And so we, we felt that from day one. Look, the apparel business from a sports performance perspective is a very crowded space. It just is. And it's very hard to build a brand. Most companies really start to see a positive impact probably in about year seven. But we have a great partner in New Balance. We have an unbelievable team in terms of our leadership group. And so, so just our focus now is just continuing to take baby steps. I think we have the right messaging in the community. I think we have the awareness in the community as well. And so now we have to make the product and we have to have optionality which we're focused on Being in the right retail doors, the doors that tell your story in a very authentic way to your targeted consumer is important. And so these are all things that you have to learn. And so I've obviously, you know, I've had some experience in this space myself, but I've surrounded myself with people that are way more experienced than I am in that space and they have the, the expertise and the years of service and so that's important. How much does this link back to your own origins? I mean, everyone knows kind of the, the legendary story, whether it's accurate or not. Have you kind of, you know, cornering LeBron when you were selling your, your throwback jerseys and that was kind of your bag at the time. Is there a parallel to that? Yeah. Look, I've always been someone as a young kid that I love sports, I love fashion. I was always someone that was really interested in that, that intersection of culture. And you know, that thing with LJ was just fate in the airport. Not much of a cornering, I know, but it was more so just like I had on something that they had saw, he had saw just a few minutes ago and it really struck his interest. And it just so happened I was in that space. But ultimately, you know, everything goes back to sport. And as you see, even when the world stopped, it was sport that kept us going. When you, when you talk about, talk about the brands that you named, that's doing a really good job. Again, their foundation is sport, whether it's running, whether it's training, whether it's basketball, what, whatever the case may be. And so I've always had a real passion for that. I've had, you know, consistency across all sports in my involvement. I played every sport there was to play and I was always a kid that really love the detail and everything. When I bought shoes, when I bought clothes, you know, I really looked at the detail, the messaging that was in it and things that when I identified with brands, a lot of it came from the stories that was told. And if I didn't like the story, I didn't, I didn't align with it or if it didn't align with me, I didn't purchase. And so my experience comes from a very authentic place. But you know, we have to go out and do the work. And so it's something that I look forward to every day. And again, it ties back into everything I do. And so when people see me do all these things, I know it's like, how does he have the time? Well, they're all inner, they're intertwined, they're all connected in a lot of ways. They're not all the same company by no stretch of the imagination. But foundation, it all leads back to, to sport. I am curious, do you plan to leverage your existing roster of athlete clients to maybe help with the build out of Clutch Clutch Athletics? No, not at all. You know, I think that when you're a company of our size, which is very small today, you have to be very strategic about how you do things. We're focused on community. We're focused on focus on that kid that is in community that identifies with us, that can grow with us, you know, and there will be times where we touch the athlete. There will be times where we do activations in community and may align the athlete of whether they're on the Clutch Sports Group roster or whether, you know, if the other competitors can, can get past the name and really do what's best for their client, it could be another athlete that's on a different representation roster. Clutch Athletics is a, is a standalone company. It's not. There's no one network at Clutch Sports Group that worked at Clutch Athletics. The name was just so good and New Balance thought the name was just really good and they, and they, they wanted to keep it as such. And so we're fine with that and, but no, we're really focused on community. Community. Yeah. And going back to that, you know, that time to where representing that that little small piece of, of grass that a kid first played his first game on or scored his first touchdown on or that little, you know, that little basketball hoop that was made out of a crate that I used to play on. And you count down to hitting those game winning shots and you know, it's really just really focusing on that community where we live and play. So that's been, been something that we've been focused on. And you know, look, I have this mentality that, and I'm living proof the best come from anywhere. I'm living proof of that. Right. And I'm not calling myself the best. What I'm saying is you don't have to come from certain places to be somebody. And so I want to make sure that, you know, our audience and our consumer understands that. And, and so I'm really vested in going back into the community and giving kids that inspiration, that motivation, that confidence to be able to persevere through whatever the challenges may be in front of you, Whatever the challenges may be within the household. As we know, the world is big in a lot of ways, but it's also so small. And we've all had some consistency in terms of terms of challenges. You know, the, the, the, the size of it could be large or small, but we all had a sample size of that. Yeah. And so being that brand that pushes. Right. What does it mean to actually be clutch thing as a teammate, as an opponent, in a competitive perspective, but also just in everyday life, you know, helping your classmate out, being, being kind to someone. Yeah. Asking someone, well, how do you feel? You know, like how many people go through the day and ask the person sitting next to them, is everything okay? Right. And so that's who we want to be. And, but we want to lead with that from a, from a sports perspective. But it's for the athlete minded as well because we're all athletes in our own right. You don't necessarily have to be on the field or on the court. Yeah. To be an athlete. You know, I not work with people every day that cover the ground. Yeah. Well, one thing I'm curious about too, with your career, Rich, I mean obviously your, you made your bread and butter is in athletics, but we've kind of seen athletics morph into just broader entertainment. Whether it's, you know, the athletes appearing in TV shows and movies or creating new lines of businesses. I'm curious about your partnership with UTA and the investment that they took in Clutch Sports, the um, umbrella company back in the day, what that relationship is like now. And Whether you have anything sort of in the pipeline that expands on that partnership. Yeah, it's great. You know, when partnering with uta, the idea that came from it was to have exactly that, have a partner, have resources that was privy to you that we didn't have at that time. And then ultimately to be able to go out and scale, we've done that. We've scaled the business way out. And, you know, as. As, you know, when you scale a business as fast as we did, you know, there's some. There's some hurdles that come with that. And so you try to smooth the pavement out from that perspective. But in addition to that, you know, we. We've. We are a different company today than we were five years ago, really, than we were yesterday. And every day we're learning a lot about our. Ourselves, and it's been a great partnership, and we'll continue to expand on that. You know, anytime you have a partner to the magnitude of a uta. And look, UTA was one of the big three in Hollywood when we got here, and it's been great. Obviously, I'm on the board and part of the leadership group even on that side as well. And so it's just great to have that. That partner that you can get in the car with and ride every day and strategize and come up with new initiatives and new verticals and things like that. And so it's been nothing but support for us from our UTA side. But we're all one. It's the way I look at it. And every day we're integrating and conversating and communicating and trying to do what's best for our clients across the board. And we've seen a lot of cross marketing. We've seen a lot of cross integration. We've got guys that come in and utilize every resource that they possibly can. But, you know, there's some guys that just want to play the sport. And so for me, in my thought process, it was just, you know, it's like any little kid, right? You don't necessarily play with every toy in your toy chest, but if you have company, you want to be able to show them that, hey, I have enough toys for all of us to play with. And. And that's how I look at it. And it's important, and it's been great, man. It really has. That's Clutch Sports Group founder and CEO Rich Paul speaking with Bloomberg Television anchor Romaine Bostick. Oh, man. That does it for this edition of the Bloomberg Business of Sports from my colleagues Damian Sassour and Vanessa Perdomo. I'm Michael Barr. Tune in again next week for the latest stories. Moving big money in the world of sports. And don't forget to subscribe to the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast on all your favorite podcast platforms. You are listening to the Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio around the world. So usually on OK Storytime, our audience will send in their relationship problems. And the OK Storytime squad gives some good advice. Advice, goofly. But today we're not giving out our usual advice. Our producer Riley says we're giving something else. So what are we doing today, Riley? Today we're playing a little game. Game, says the man. I bought special gifts for you guys from ebay. Each one picked with one of you in mind. Yeah, Dakota, if you want to guess. All right. There is a gift at my feet. Open that thing. Now it is in my hands. Oh, I feel like it's got to be. Our resident gamer kiosk. This is the rectangle of childhood. It's a portable game console. I used to have this as a kid. This game console I used to play all the time. And you know when your mom came into the room when you're a kid and like, you're pretending to sleep. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But Riley, what a thoughtful gift. Yeah, thank you so much, Riley. You're crushing it. But we have one more gift. Yeah, let's open it. Oh, camera. Yeah, an old timey camera. That's right. Classic. This is awesome. Yeah, because you know how I love to take pictures of my travels. Yeah, you're always somewhere, whether it's in Kyrgyzstan with some nomads or just New York, you know, with a nice little a piece of trash or a rat taking pictures with the birds. So, Riley, you got all this from ebay? Dude, ebay. It was really fun finding it with you guys. Like, I had very specific things for each one of you. Yeah, it was all there. Thanks, Riley. And thank you, ebay. And guys, shop ebay for millions of fines, each with a story. EBay. Things people love. This is Matt Rogers from Lost Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. Get ready for your next TV obsession. All's Fair. Starring Kim Kardashian, Naomi Watts, Niecy Nash Betts, Tiana Taylor. With Sarah Paulson and Glenn Close. A team of fierce female divorce attorneys leave a male dominated firm to start their own. Filled with scandalous secrets and shifting allegiances, both in the courtroom and within their own ranks, these ladies know that lawyers are a girl's best friend. Don't miss all's Fair now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney plus for bundle subscribers. Terms apply. Black Friday is here, and Pandora Jewelry is offering up to 40% off storewide and site wide. Now through December 2nd. Explore jewelry designed to last beyond the season, from classic charms to modern rings, bracelets, earrings and more. Whether you're holiday shopping or treating yourself, now's the perfect time to find something Special. Shop@pandora.net or your local Pandora store. Exclusions apply.