Why Prediction Markets Should Scare Sports Leagues

Summary

Bloomberg Business of Sports

Episode Summary: "Why Prediction Markets Should Scare Sports Leagues" (December 19, 2025)

Overview

This episode of Bloomberg Business of Sports, hosted by Vanessa Perdomo with co-host Randall Williams, dives into several interlinked topics at the intersection of sports, finance, and technology. The prime focus is on the rapid rise of prediction markets in sports, why these platforms are causing concern among leagues and regulators, and how this new wave of financial speculation could transform sports integrity and business models. Additional segments explore the economics of new sports developments in Oklahoma City and the growing pressures on athlete health in college sports.

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Segment 1: Oklahoma City’s New Sports District & Stadium Development

[02:56 – 14:42]

Key Points:

• Russell Westbrook’s Investment:

  • NBA star Russell Westbrook is investing in a new mixed-use entertainment district in Oklahoma City, anchored by a soccer stadium.
  • Backed by Nick Gross (son of Bill Gross) and Echo Investment Partners, with significant public funding support ($120 million).
  • Mirrors a growing national trend where cities use sports venues as anchors for urban development.

• Will Stadium Development ‘Revitalize’ the City?

  • Max Adler (Bloomberg municipal finance reporter):

    "The benefits don’t necessarily outweigh the public cost of all of this. There have even been some studies that show that like a big box retail store like a Target or a Walmart would end up producing more revenue for the city and even more full jobs." ([05:29])

  • Yet, the Thunder's impact on Oklahoma City is undeniable—since 2008, GDP and population have both surged, showing the potential indirect benefits of sports franchises.

• Cultural Expansion & Olympic Spotlight:

  • Oklahoma City will host events during the 2028 LA Olympics (softball and whitewater rafting).
  • Ratio of public investment to long-term visibility and civic pride is hard to quantify.

• Soccer Stadium & Music Venue Economics:

  • The stadium will start with 11,000 seats, expandable to 20,000.
  • Nick Gross’s background in music is expected to bring major concerts and festivals to a region underserved by current festival circuits.
  • The Oklahoma City Energy (now USL, possibly MLS ambitions) are spearheading this with the hope that USL’s upcoming relegation system will boost status.

• Local Appetite for Public Funding:

  • Oklahoma City is an anomaly, consistently approving public funding for capital and sporting projects—15 for 15 since 1993.

    "Oklahoma City really stands out as an anomaly in respect to getting its voters to approve capital projects that are municipally funded." ([13:18])

  • Contrast with taxpayers in other states who are experiencing ‘spending fatigue’ over publicly funded stadiums.

Notable Quote:

• Max Adler, on potential superstar tours:

  “If the Jonas Brothers do tour in Oklahoma City, Vanessa, we are going.” ([09:50])

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Segment 2: The Rise and Risks of Prediction Markets in Sports

[17:19 – 29:32]

Key Points:

• Explaining Prediction Markets:

  • Emerging online platforms (e.g., Kalshi, Polymarket) that allow betting on a broad range of sports-related and real-world outcomes.
  • Originated in political markets, now rapidly expanding into sports.

• Tension Between Information & Integrity:

  • Ira Budway (Bloomberg US Business reporter):

    • Shares anecdote about a trader leveraging insider information (Senate staff tip) in a political prediction market. In politics, it’s applauded; in sports, it could be a crime.

    "...as events contracts, as prediction markets get into sports could be a real problem...This is almost exactly the kind of story that you see, for instance, in the federal case against...NBA players...who had information about who was or wasn’t going to be starting and they use[d] that to bet...In the one case, nobody cared...In the other case, guy could go to jail for 20 years.” ([18:20])

  • Clear regulatory and ethical divide between financially-motivated information trading in politics vs. sports.

• How Sports Leagues View Prediction Markets:

  • Leagues (NBA, MLB, NFL) maintain that state-regulated sportsbooks provide oversight and consumer protections—something lacking in the new prediction markets.

    “The leagues were among those who submitted these letters saying, here are our concerns.” ([20:38])

  • Only the NHL has entered formal agreements with prediction market platforms, providing official data and branding in exchange for closer oversight and monetary partnership.

  • The rationale: Better to be engaged and build guardrails than ignore an emerging sector.

    “The NHL is saying, look, this is here. And so we think it’s better to be business partners...if there’s a problem...we can find out what they’re doing to put guardrails in place…But, they have been the first among...the big team sport leagues in the US to go ahead and take that step.” ([25:37])

• The Regulatory Gray Area & State Pushback:

  • Major legal battles underway: 30+ state attorneys general consider prediction markets to be unauthorized, unlicensed gambling, while platforms assert federal (CFTC) jurisdiction.

    “This is being contested in federal court right now. And that is the question, right? Are these a new kind of thing that the Commodity Futures Trading Commission oversees...or are these...just sports betting under a different name?” ([23:01])

• Concerns About Manipulation and Integrity:

  • Many of the markets offered (not just in sports) are easy to manipulate by insiders (e.g., Academy Awards, referee decisions).

    • Randall Williams: “It offers Oscar nominations...things that feel like they are very easily manipulable because of the fact that if you are a voter for the Oscars...why not just put $10,000 on this?” ([26:33])

  • Sports leagues worry the same logic applies: If players, coaches, or insiders exploit non-public information, integrity is at risk.

    • Ira Budway: “…there was, I think, a logic in those [prediction] markets that this is what you want to happen, because the whole idea is to kind of figure out the probability of future events…But that’s something the league cannot tolerate.” ([27:53])

• Prediction Markets as a ‘Wild West’

  • No major prediction market scandals yet—likely because the industry is so new.
  • Federal government has provided little guidance; everyone is waiting to see how these forces will collide and be regulated.
    • Vanessa Perdomo: “It’s almost, it seems like almost early days of NIL, when everyone was like, it's the wild west. And we're trying to figure that out. This is kind of what that sounds to me right now.” ([29:32])

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Segment 3: Athlete Health and College Sports Money

[32:44 – 45:02]

Key Points:

• Athlete Health and Expanding Schedules:

  • Focus on college football’s longer seasons, more games, less rest, and the growing toll on player health.
  • Dr. James Borchers (Chief Medical Officer, Big Ten):
    • Advocates for more bye weeks, smarter practice structures, and an overall look at athlete workload throughout the calendar.

    “I've been a big advocate for trying to work, you know, at least two bye weeks into the season to give some time for recovery and then also looking at the practice cadence during the season and...how much contact is occurring...how we can make certain...athletes have time to recover.” ([34:54])

• Cumulative Wear and Tear:

  • Modern youth sports, with higher levels of early specialization and year-round play, are contributing to injuries at college and pro levels.

    “You’ve got to look at what happens even in youth sports and the professionalization of youth sports, and that's why we're seeing athletes more broken today when they get to college or to the professional ranks.” ([37:39])

• The Resource Divide:

  • There are massive disparities between big-time college programs and smaller schools in terms of the quality and scale of medical support.

    “I think there's resource discrepancy you're talking about that you can even get down into smaller institutions where they just don't have the resources, like you said, that most Power 4 institutions have...” ([42:17])

• Advising on Private Equity Spending:

  • If private equity or pension funds get involved in college sports, Dr. Borchers says schools should prioritize athlete health and medical infrastructure.

    “I'd advise them to spend a lot more than they are spending in most cases. We know that the percentage that's spent on medical care and wellness care at a lot of places is very small…it's the one area where you can make the biggest impact in what happens with athletes.” ([44:10])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Information Asymmetry in Prediction Markets:

  • Ira Budway: “In the one case, nobody cared. In fact, they would see this as kind of how it's supposed to work. In the other case, guy could go to jail for 20 years.” ([18:20])

• Regarding Public Stadium Spending:

  • Max Adler: “Oklahoma City really stands out as an anomaly in respect to getting its voters to approve capital projects that are municipally funded.” ([13:18])

• On the Need for Health Investment:

  • Dr. James Borchers: “I'd advise them to spend a lot more than they are spending in most cases...that's invaluable. As you mentioned, keeping your athletes on the field and all the return that comes from that.” ([44:10])

• On the Regulatory ‘Wild West’:

  • Vanessa Perdomo: “This is kind of what that sounds to me right now. It's the wild, wild west and no one knows how it's gonna shake out.” ([29:32])

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Oklahoma City Sports Development: [03:45 – 14:42]
• Prediction Markets Focus Start: [17:19]
• Insider Trading in Non-Sports vs. Sports Prediction Markets: [18:20]
• Leagues and Prediction Market Oversight: [20:38 – 22:30]
• State vs. Federal Legal Battle: [23:01]
• NHL Partnership & Explanation: [25:23 – 26:33]
• Concerns Over Manipulability: [26:33]
• The 'Wild West' Analogy: [29:32]
• College Sports Athlete Health: [33:15 – 45:02]

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Tone & Style

• Conversational, analytical, and at times humorous (“If the Jonas Brothers do tour in OKC, Vanessa, we are going.”).
• Language is accessible but detailed, reflecting the hosts’ and guests’ expertise in sports, finance, and business.

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Conclusion

This episode offers a robust look at the evolving intersections of sports, finance, technology, and regulation. The main theme—why prediction markets are both a huge opportunity and a potential existential threat for sports leagues—is explored in depth, with sharp-eyed skepticism about both the upside and the risks. Meanwhile, the links between big money (whether in stadium deals or private equity) and athlete welfare get a thoughtful hearing, highlighting how the business of sports is about much more than what happens on the field.

---

Transcript

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BLOOMBERG BUSINESS OF SPORTS From Bloomberg Radio.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports where we explore the big money issues in the world of sports. I'm Vanessa Perdomo. Michael Barr and Damian Sassour are off this week, but joining me is special guest and friend of the show, Bloomberg US Business reporter Randall Williams. Randall, thanks so much for jumping in this week.

[Randall Williams]

Thank you for having me. It's always a pleasure.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

Coming up, we'll talk college sports, but from a bit of a different angle than we have lately. We'll talk to Dr. James Borchers, Chief Medical Officer at the Big Ten and President and CEO of the US Council for Athletes Health.

[Randall Williams]

And I'm really looking forward to asking him if he thinks private equity, specifically who's trying to get into college sports, should invest in the medical departments and maybe not so much on the sponsorship side.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

All that and more is on the way. But we start with a new project in Oklahoma City involving NBA star Russell Westbrook.

[Randall Williams]

Westbrook is teaming up with an investment firm tied to Nick Gross, who's Bill Gross son, to build a new entertainment district anchored by a new soccer stadium in Oklahoma City.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

Bloomberg News municipal finance reporter Max Adler did some reporting on this and joins us now to discuss. Max, welcome to the Bloomberg Business of sports, of course.

[Max Adler]

Thank you guys for having me.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

So we're here talking about Russell Westbrook and an Oklahoma City project that's now being he's now being joined by, by Big Money. Please, please give us some info on that.

[Max Adler]

Yeah. So Russell Westbrook is going to invest in this soccer stadium that's also going to be surrounded by a mixed use entertainment and retail district. And the project is being backed by Nick Gross, who is the son of Bill Gross. And it's being led by Echo Investment Partners, which is led by a fellow named Christian Canady. And they have the backing of the city. They seem to have a good amount of private investment as well. The city's going to be giving them about $120 million to finance this project. And they're joining a wave of other mixed use soccer stadium developments that are happening all across the country right now. This is one of the hot areas of municipal finance right now.

[Randall Williams]

How is this going to revitalize Oklahoma City? And before you answer, I'll say that I spent a day and a half, maybe two days in Oklahoma City earlier this year for the NBA Finals. And that town is empty like you get outside of the city itself, and it just feels very bare. Where is this going to go and how do you think it's going to impact Oklahoma City as. As a city?

[Max Adler]

So academics that have studied these types of stadium developments frequently come to the conclusion that the benefits don't necessarily outweigh the public cost of all of this. There have even been some studies that show that like a big box retail store like a Target or a Walmart would end up producing more revenue for the city and even more full jobs. If you think about these stadium developments, they're usually used about like 30 to 50 times a year. If you have a soccer stadium, they're going to have about 20 home games a year. And then it depends on what you could fill the venue with in those off days. So I don't know if this is necessarily going to revitalize Oklahoma City, but Oklahoma City, it's impossible to deny the Thunder's impact on that city. Since 2008, when the Thunder arrived after the Hornets did a brief stint in Oklahoma City and the Sonics then relocated to Oklahoma City, their GDP has risen like 84%. Their population has also grown a lot. And as you know, I mean, the Thunder won the championship last year. I was watching that Netflix starting five documentary and watching the town pumped up after the championship, you could tell that there's thunder fever running through the veins of the people in Oklahoma City right now.

[Bloomberg Business of Sports Intro/Outro Announcer]

Right?

[Vanessa Perdomo]

We're not here to make them mad, Randy. We're not here to make.

[Randall Williams]

Ok, sorry. You know, listen, I went to CVS outside of the city and I sat in that CVS for 15 minutes. They thought I was loitering. I was like, no, I'm just waiting for an Uber. There was nothing out there.

[Max Adler]

Well, they have a very pro development mayor right now and their population has risen since 2008. They went from the 31st biggest city to the 20th biggest city in the country. It does seem like a lot of cool cultural things are moving to Oklahoma City. They're going to get some shine in the global spotlight during the 2028 Olympics because they're going to be hosting the softball and whitewater rafting events in Oklahoma City. And that also is only made possible by public investments in sports infrastructure. So a bunch of years back, they expanded their softball facility. It's the home of the women's College Softball World Series. So they have that every year. And they also built this whitewater rafting complex. So these investments are definitely paying off for the city. And although I tend to agree with the academic research that I mentioned before showing that the benefits usually don't outweigh the public cost, you could see it's hard to put a number on the marketing benefits that they're going to get from all this, from having their city showcased during the LA Olympics. And if this stadium really does work out well for the city and for its owners, it's possible that the Oklahoma City Football Club ends up in the mls. So they're also the owners of the Oklahoma City Football Club. Right now they're called the Oklahoma City Energy and they're owned by Echo Investment, which is the lead developer on this. They currently play in the usl and the USL is about to completely change their structure. They're going to become the first North American league to adopt relegation the way that the European football leagues and associations do. And they're hoping to create a top tier in the USL that competes with the mls. So that also is a very interesting opportunity for the owners in Oklahoma City right now.

[Randall Williams]

One of the ways in which these sports owners and investors say that a stadium can help is it can bring tour acts. It can bring different events like festivals. And if Beyonce or Taylor Swift or Kendrick Lamar and SZA or in Vanessa's case, the Jonas Brothers are in town, then a stadium like this can attract an A lister to that town. Do you see this working out? Because in reading your story that there's only 20,000 seats, that's roughly a little bit more than what is right down the street at the Paycom Center. How do you see this impacting touring for artists and them being able to book people when there isn't a soccer or football game going on at the stadium?

[Max Adler]

Well, first of all, first of all, if the Jonas Brothers do tour in Oklahoma City, Vanessa, we are going.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

Max, we're there. I love it.

[Max Adler]

The stadium's only going to have 11,000 seats for soccer to start off, but they do. They're building it with the possibility of expanding it to, like about 20,000, which would make them competitive with the other MLS stadiums, but they would be able to host more people. When you consider, like, how many people could fit on the field, and you're right, like, they'll be competing with Paycom. But Nick Gross is actually very involved in the music industry. He's been playing in Southern California bands for a long time. He manages a lot of bands. So he hopefully will be able to leverage his connections in the music industry to bring some acts to Oklahoma City. They're also talking about bringing festivals to Oklahoma City. And right now in the Southwest there aren't that many festivals. Like there's Austin City Limits, there's South by Southwest, but there aren't that many things happening in that part of the country a little further west of Texas. So I do think that there's a market for them. I do think they'll be able to bring in some big musical acts. And like I said, Oklahoma City is a growing cultural hub. So I'm hopeful that they will be able to leverage Nick's connections in the music industry and be able to monetize that as it pertains to the musical acts that they bring in.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

We're speaking with municipal finance reporter for Bloomberg News, Max Adler. Max, I think they do have a better chance of getting the Jonas Brothers than they would Beyonce into a 10,000 seat arena. But as we're talking about that and obviously when we're looking at the soccer side Bill built stadium specifically and they won't be opening till 2028, they're missing this big moment in time for soccer for the US when we are hosting the 2026 World cup next year. How is that impacted them and really what this space could really be, I mean hopefully we'll have the 2031 Women's World Cup. And I don't know if they're looking at that as something that will continue the popularity of soccer for them specifically maybe getting a game or not a hosting net training facilities.

[Max Adler]

So they'll miss out on that. Yeah, you're right. They're not going to be able to host training facilities and stuff like that. They definitely won't have any games there. Obviously they don't have a facility in Oklahoma City that could support a World cup match. But they hopefully will be able to capitalize on some of the momentum directly after the World Cup. You know, and we saw that in the US after the Women's World cup in 94 there was a lot of enthusiasm. But it does seem like every five years or every decade there's someone, some pundit in the U.S. that's saying, you know, soccer is a really growing sport here where it's going to become as popular here as it is in Europe. That obviously hasn't come to fruition yet. I don't think soccer is even the fastest growing sport in the US at this point. It might even be Padel. But I think that they'll be able to capitalize on some of the momentum post World Cup.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

Max, you mentioned that these mixed use districts are really hot areas for municipal finance, right? Now, what is it about them that make, you know, these decisions get made, get actually through? Because we've also seen a lot of different cities and towns around the US really denying taxpayer money to build massive stadiums.

[Max Adler]

Oklahoma City, I'm so glad you mentioned that Oklahoma City really stands out as an anomaly in respect to getting its voters to approve capital projects that are municipally funded. So I believe since 1993, Oklahoma City is 15,0 in voter approved capital projects and several of them are sports stadium projects. So while elsewhere in the country we're seeing voters are having spending fatigue, particularly when it comes to sports stadiums, because they're looking around, they see billionaire owners and they're like, why can't they afford to privately finance this themselves? Why shouldn't we be directing our public funds towards services that all of us will be able to use? But Oklahoma City is totally bucking that trend. Also, I was talking to the mayor, David Holt, and he said when he was thinking about this project, like he looked around the country and he recognized that Oklahoma City might be one of the only top 50 cities by population that doesn't have a professional soccer or football stadium in its city limits. So for Oklahoma City, they miss out on a lot of local events that end up going to Tulsa or going to Norman, Oklahoma or Stillwater because those are where like the big universities are.

[Randall Williams]

Our thanks to Bloomberg News and municipal finance reporter Max Adler for joining us.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

Up next, we turn to the sudden growth of prediction markets in the world of sports. For Randall Williams, I'm Vanessa Perdomo. You're listening to the Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio around the world.

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[Max Adler]

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[Vanessa Perdomo]

Bloomberg Business of Sports where we explore the big money issues in the world of sports. I'm Vanessa Perdomo.

[Randall Williams]

And I'm Randall Williams.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

Randall is jumping in for Michael Barr and Damien Sassour. They're off this week. Prediction markets are booming in the world of sports and drawing attention from everyone from fans, leagues and now regulators. Joining us to discuss is Bloomberg US Business reporter Ira Budway. Ira, thanks so much for joining the Bloomberg business of sports.

[Ira Budway]

Always a pleasure.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

All right, so well, today it's a fun one because it's me, you and Randall who we get to talk every day.

[Randall Williams]

Absolutely. We're neighbors.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

Neighbors. So let's get into it. This is something I've been really excited to talk to you about. You know, you just dropped your Cap Falshi story recently all about prediction markets and it's something that I ask you about, I think every day in the last couple of weeks. So let's get into that. I was really into the first part of the story is this anecdote about a trader and how they were trying to make this Bet on the US Secretary of Energy. Tell us about that and a little bit more about the story there.

[Ira Budway]

Yeah, I spoke with a guy who traded professionally, his name's Adi. He actually was a trader for the trading arm of Kalshi for a few years as well. And he got his start in politics, trading a lot of, I think, events markets, traders. That's kind of where they began, especially Trump, Biden. So he started back in 2020 and then he started doing it for a living. And he told me this story about in 2021, trying to figure out when Jennifer Granholm would be confirmed as Secretary of Energy under Biden because there was a market on that. And so he's doing his homework. And he called a lobbyist who told him that he had sources with inside Senate staff who said it would be a certain day. And so he took that information and bet on it, made thousands of dollars. And he was very proud of this and he bragged about it on the message boards for these various early versions of events markets. And he told me this story not because he wanted me to know that he won a few thousand dollars on this, but because it's, it's the kind of thing that as events contracts, as prediction markets get into sports could be a real problem. Right. Because this is the sort of thing that sports leagues, the type of behavior that they want to have happening. And this is almost exactly the kind of story that you see, for instance, in the federal case against the those various NBA players, former coaches and all their associates. Right. Who that were unveiled October, same thing. Somebody knew somebody who told a friend who had information about who was or wasn't going to be starting and they use that to bet. In the one case, nobody cared. In fact, they would see this as kind of how it's supposed to work. In the other case, guy could go to jail for 20 years. And I think they're going to have to solve that tension as they figure out how to, you know, whether and how events contracts can function in the world of sports betting.

[Randall Williams]

So let's, I want to ask you a little bit about how the leagues feel about this. You know, we've seen sports gambling partnerships across the NFL, NBA, mlb, but I haven't seen anything with Kalshi just yet except for one league in particular. Tell me about how the leagues are approaching this.

[Ira Budway]

Yeah, you know, this really all started last year around this time. And so at first everyone was trying to just figure out what's going on. The CFTC for the first time was allowing events prediction markets to offer contracts tied to sports. And so they said, we're going to have this roundtable about it. And the leagues were among those who submitted these letters saying, here are our concerns. So Major League Baseball, the NBA put in letters and they said, look, when we do sports, when we have sports betting through state licensed sports betting operators, they do certain things for us that we think are important, right? They have consumer protections around problem gambling and addiction. But also they help us monitor markets for potential manipulation, insider trading and other infractions that we care about that go to the integrity of our games. We want to make sure that's in place when we do if we're going to do prediction markets. And that roundtable got canceled, never happened. And this thing kind of rolled along and got bigger and bigger and bigger. And so since then, the one league, well, the UFC I should say, did a partnership with polymarket, but the, one of the big major leagues in the US that's gone into any kind of relationship officially with them is the NHL, which did a deal with both Kalshi and polymarket where they will share their official data and, and the prediction markets can use their names and their intellectual property, their marks and logos. The other leagues have all still sort of have kept an arm's length relationship. The NHL, sorry, the NFL just recently testified before the US House that there's these guardrails in place basically saying what the NBA and Major League Baseball had already said in their letters, that there are guardrails in place with state regulated sports betting that they don't see with these prediction markets. And that that's for them a potential problem.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

And that's what states are also saying right now. Now states are coming after Kalshee and saying that they're, they're violating the fact that these states, now New Jersey and Nevada have contracts with sportsbooks and they had to, you know, get those specifically regulated. And now, and now these, this prediction markets are coming into place and kind of violating that. They're, they're essentially offshore gambling or what?

[Ira Budway]

Yeah, they're, well, they're unlicensed gambling sites in the eyes of about 30 attorney generals who filed an amicus brief in several states of gaming regulators and states have said, look to Kashkin and other prediction markets, you have to stop offering these contracts in our state. And so this is getting, this is being contested in federal court right now. And that is the question, right? Are these a new kind of thing that the Commodity Futures Trading Commission oversees and therefore that supersedes any kind of state regulatory authority or are These, in fact, just sports betting under a different name. And they're escaping the. The authority of these state regulators who are built to do all these things that the leagues are worried about. Right. The state gaming regulators typically have relationships with the leagues where they're in tune with what the leagues feel like they need in terms of what types of betting markets are allowed. Right. Like, can you, can you bet on injuries? Right. The NFL doesn't like that. Can you bet on referee calls? The NFL doesn't like that. Can you bet on kicks? Right. In. In field goals? Because that's the thing that a single person controls and is therefore a little more susceptible to manipulation and corruption. Right. These are things that NFL has long asked state gaming regulators to prohibit. Right. And there's all kinds of examples of this kind of thing where the gaming regulators are working with leagues and sportsbooks to create a system that they feel like works for everybody and they represent US citizens or citizens of those states and taxpayers. Right. So there isn't an equivalent kind of framework for the prediction markets. The prediction markets will argue, look, we're doing that stuff. We're building the monitoring programs. We're partnering with the same monitors that the sportsbooks do. We have a whole set of rules that we have to follow. They just come from the federal government. And the argument is really like, are those rules the right rules? Are they sufficient? You know, because I think there's a lot about how the CFTC regulates futures markets that doesn't really feel like a fit or enough for sports betting. And so this is kind of the question, like, do we. Do we let this go forward and let the prediction markets kind of build their own rule system that we think is good enough. Do we say, no, you can't do this? You know, it's, it's. And I think that's why the leagues are being cautious right now, because this is still kind of unsettled question.

[Randall Williams]

We're here with Ira Bouwe, US Sports business reporter for Bloomberg News. Ira, you mentioned all of these things, all of these things about guardrails, but tell me what the NHL did that's different than what the NFL, NBA and MLB are saying.

[Ira Budway]

Yeah, the NHL is saying, look, this is here. And so we think it's better to be business partners, right. So that they have our official data so that we can call them up. Basically. Basically, if there's a problem so that we can find out what they're doing to put guardrails in place. Right. And have that conversation with them is the essence of what the NHL's approach to this is, you know, I think also frankly, these companies are not. They're paying. Right. And so there's a revenue stream for the NHL as well to consider. But, but they have been the first among the big team sport leagues in the US to go ahead and take that step. And the argument is, look, if these event, if these pretty markets are going to exist, which they appear to be, then we want to be able to like be a phone call away from them and we want to be able to cooperate with them and putting the guardrails in place that we want. Right. And the other counter argument is like, isn't that what state regulators need to be doing?

[Randall Williams]

So one of the things I'm on Kalshi's website right now and its offerings are absolutely absurd outside of sports. It offers Oscar nominations for best picture, Oscar for best Picture. All of these things that feel like they are very easily manipulable because of the fact that if you are a voter for the Oscars, why not just put $10,000 on this and then you talk to other voters and put all this money into. Obviously that would be a scandal, but it does feel like going back to sports that there are no guardrails around this and that if you are. We've seen a very, very distinct and crazy plan with Chauncey Billups allegedly doing these, these giving out information for injuries. I wonder, is that the reason why the NFL is saying, you know, we don't want this? Because, you know, if you were, if you were manipulating an NFL game and catches the quarterback has to throw them the ball, that's not as bad as someone actually pulling themselves out of a game in the NBA, in the NFL, I think because the, the game size and the amount of games is smaller, players are less likely to do that, I would say. But with Kalshee, if you're betting wins and losses and, and injury reports and all these things that they are potentially offering, it feels very, very dangerous for everyone in the sports business. No.

[Ira Budway]

Yeah, I mean, I think that's the question. And call she's, you know, they, if you look under their terms, there'll be a list of people for any market who are not allowed to participate. And that would include insiders or people who could influence that market potentially. So a lot of this stuff is at least notionally prohibited and they seem to, to be building now the infrastructure to kind of monitor it. And we have not seen, to my knowledge, a big scandal around a sports market in a prediction market space. But I think that's partly because these are still so new. And so, yeah, that is what the NFL is worried about. Right. Is this type of stuff that we've seen go on in the early days at least, of prediction markets where people who have influenced, influence over a market are trading in it or people who know things that aren't public information are trading in it. And there was, I think, a logic in those markets that this is what you want to happen, because the whole idea is to kind of figure out the probability of future events. That is what prediction markets were built to do. And so if you have people who, who know, really know what's going to happen and they're using these markets to, to place bets, then that's telling everyone through that price signal the probability of that event. Right. And that's something that a league cannot tolerate. Right. Because the whole idea, obviously, with competition is no one knows until they go out on the field and do their best. And so, you know, they have to maintain that or eventually it erodes all of our trust in these games that we watch. So those two things are just gonna, they're in kind of on a collision course now. We're watching it get sorted out, you know, with very little guidance, frankly, from the federal government at this point.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

It's almost, it seems like almost early days of nil, when everyone was like, it's the wild west. And we're trying to figure that out. This is kind of what that sounds to me right now. It's the wild, wild west and no one knows how it's gonna shake out. So I imagine we're gonna come back to you about this quite a lot, Ira. Our thanks to Bloomberg US Business reporter Ira Budway for joining us. Up next, we talk with chief medical officer at the Big Ten Conference about the challenges of keeping access athletes healthy. For Randall Williams, I'm Vanessa Perdomo. You're listening to the Bloomberg Business of sports from Bloomberg Radio around the world.

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[Bloomberg Business of Sports Intro/Outro Announcer]

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[Vanessa Perdomo]

Thanks for joining the Bloomberg Business of Sports where we explore the big money export issues in the world of sports. I'm Vanessa Perdomo. Michael Barr and Damian Sassauer are off this week, but joining me is special guest and friend Bloomberg US Business reporter Randall Williams.

[Randall Williams]

Thank you for having me. We spend a lot of time talking about nil money in college athletics and about the growth of sports betting. But we don't often talk about the toll all of these things could have on individual players in their bodies as players are playing for big money at younger and younger ages.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

Joining us to discuss the cross section of some of the big money deals in college and the challenge of keeping athletes healthy for the long haul is Dr. James Borchers. He's chief medical officer at the Big Ten Conference and president and CEO of the U.S. council for Athletes Health. Dr. James Borchers, welcome to the Bloomberg Business of Sports.

[Dr. James Borchers]

Thanks for having me.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

So really excited to talk to you today. All things about college athletics and everything you're doing there on the medical side and really seeing where it's evolved from your seat on the medical side. But first, tell us about the US Council for Athletes Health and your role as president and CEO.

[Dr. James Borchers]

Well, the US Council for Athletes Health is an organization that was founded to really prioritize athlete health, safety and well being for sport organizations for institutions and associations. We do that through strategic planning, education, consultation, compliance work. We work with over 300 NCAA institutions and over 20 conferences in the NCAA, for example, and work with groups like the USOPC, the US Olympic and Paralympic Committee, and national governing bodies to really craft medical standards for athletes, with the goal being to have the best environments for athletes to be able to perform while protecting their health, safety and well being.

[Randall Williams]

Hey, Dr. Brochures, it's Randall Williams and my question for you is specifically on the sport of football. It seems like in college football the season is getting progressively longer. They're adding games to the College Football Playoff. The season's now starting the second week of August instead of the first or second week of September. How have you advised schools and athletes to manage health in such a dangerous context?

[Dr. James Borchers]

Sport yeah, no, I think you're right. I think we're looking at the expansion of seasons and how long the season is. You know, we can take some lessons from the professional colleagues in the NFL and I think you have to look at the entire calendar and look at what you're doing outside the season as well when it comes to, you know, conditioning periods, spring practice. So I think you have to look at the calendar in total and I've advised, you know, the CFP and other groups to look at the entire calendar. But I think the other thing we have to look at is what's happening during the season. I've been a big advocate for trying to work, you know, at least two bye weeks into the season to give some time for recovery and then also looking at the practice cadence during the season and what you're doing doing during those practices, how much contact is occurring and how we can make certain that, you know, athletes have time to recover, the number of games, you know, it's it's interesting. If you look at most high school football seasons, in order to win a state championship, you usually have to play about 15 or 16 games in most states. So athletes coming into college are used to playing games, albeit maybe not at the level of Division 1 college football. But I think it's what goes on around the game that we have to really pay the most attention to.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

Can you elaborate a little bit on that? Like, what do you mean by what goes around the game?

[Dr. James Borchers]

Well, I think what I'm talking about is the practice that goes around the game. How long are we practicing? Are there. How many contact practices are occurring during the week? Is there a day off during the week? Do we have bye weeks built into the season so that athletes have appropriate time to recover, you know, during the season? And if you think about periodization and how recovery happens, those time periods can be really beneficial. And then I think also what goes on in the preseason, what happens in those practices, what's going on in the post season? What's happening for those athletes? Are we giving them the time to be able to do things that are allowing them to recover? And we're making certain we're not, you know, doing so much in the preseason that, that they're already worn out, you know, when they come into the season.

[Randall Williams]

I want to ask you a little bit about the NBA, a little bit. And I know you're focused on college, but in the NBA playoffs we saw a lot of Achilles injuries and torn ACLs, things like that, especially towards the end of last year. I wonder if the accumulation of all of these, these games, that high school and college athletes, and then, you know, they eventually go pro and play in these leagues like the NBA. I wonder if the accumulation of so many games, so such long seasons, how does that affect the body? And is it a trend or is it more individual based? If someone who trains harder and gets less rest and maybe they're more prone to injury. Is there any data behind that or how do you analyze that?

[Dr. James Borchers]

Yeah, Randall, I think you bring up a great point. I even take it further back to the youth sports complex and what we see in youth sports and specialization in sport today that's so much different than it was 20 years ago, and the volume of athletics that occurs in a single sport. I mean, if you look at AAU basketball, people playing, you know, sometimes four to eight games in a weekend and then doing that all year long. I think your point is the accumulation of wear and tear on the young body. And what we're seeing now just, you know, show up at, you know, 20 years old if you've played in high school and college. And all the accumulation that we didn't see 20 years ago leads to a lot of these injuries. You mentioned calf injuries, Achilles injuries, soft tissue injuries. Certainly the NBA season, for example, has something to do with that. And we've heard a lot about, you know, back to backs and the travel and recovery and sleep, which you need to address. But what we also have to address is what happens to that individual for the, you know, the 10 to 12 years prior to coming to the NBA, as you mentioned. And I think you got to go back further than high school. I think we got to look at what happens even in youth sports and the professionalization of youth sports, and that's why we're seeing athletes more broken today when they get to college or to the professional ranks. So you bring up a great point, and I'm 100% in agreement. You've got to look at that really to affect some of the things that are happening. Some of it's individualized, but we really have to look at what young athletes are doing when we think about these types of injuries.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

I think it's so interesting, you know, the point you guys bring up there. And, you know, I was a college athlete. I remember how it was especially like you had said, Dr. Borchers, in preseason. I mean, preseason's harder than the regular season most of the time.

[Max Adler]

Yeah.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

So when you're, when you're looking at that and then you're having conversations, you know, from your seat now, as chief medical officer for the Big Ten, when you're having those conversations, saying, oh, maybe we should add in, you know, two bi weeks, you know, for recovery. But then when you're talking to athletes, when we're talking to athletes, Randall and I, and they're saying, yeah, we know exactly how we're supposed to recover the body sleep and all those things you mentioned, but really don't get that rest. So what are those conversations like from your standpoint, where you're trying to talk to athletic directors, coaches, trying to get players more rest when they really, there really isn't time for that in the season?

[Dr. James Borchers]

Well, I, I think quite honestly, the balance of finding that recovery, in my opinion, is the secret sauce to best performance. And I think if you look at the highest functioning teams in most sports, if you look at the highest functioning organizations, they've discovered that they understand that and they focus on it, and they understand how to manage that and how to make certain that their athletes are able to perform at their peak performance. And you can only do that when you're as you know, physically well, mentally well and emotionally well. And if you wear somebody out, if you continue to grind on them, you're going to see that performance decrease. So this isn't only about an athlete's health and safety and well being. It's about how you get them to perform their best. And I think you look at the lengths of seasons, you look at preseason and all of those things, I think if you're not taking that into account today, you're getting athletes that are not performing at their peak performance and then overall your team's not going to perform well. So I try to, you know, I try to put all of this into perspective around performance, which everybody seems to understand. And when you start to talk about it that way, people understand, yeah, it's not so much about, you know, their health and safety, which everybody likes to use as buzzwords, but it's really about performance. And you know, as a former athlete, when you're worn out, when you're beat up, you just don't perform your best. And so you got to find a balance in there and how to do that. And if you don't study it and understand it, you're just going to have people that just don't perform at their peak.

[Randall Williams]

Now, your organization has worked with, you know, you said over 300 colleges and universities. That's correct, right?

[Dr. James Borchers]

That's correct.

[Randall Williams]

And so you also worked at Ohio State. And I wonder, you know, from small college to large college, I'm almost positive that Ohio State has more people on its medical staff than the Cincinnati Bengals does. Just because Mike Brown.

[Dr. James Borchers]

I don't know about that.

[Randall Williams]

I would bet on it. I would bet on it. But with that in mind, I wonder what the biggest difference is that you've seen from the larger schools to the smaller schools. Because at Ohio State, you know, you have multimillion dollars. And I lived in Columbus, so I know what it's like to walk on campus and feel like that whole city is owned by Ohio State. And so I can imagine what that medical department is like. But if you go down to a school like Wright State, which is a lot smaller, I wonder what the difference is in terms of the way in which athletes are taken care of.

[Dr. James Borchers]

Yeah, I think there's resource discrepancy you're talking about that you can even get down into smaller institutions where they just don't have the resources, like you said, that most Power 4 institutions have, or even Division 1 schools have. Access to. So I think it's evaluating that and understanding there's not a cookie cutter way to approach this. I mean, look, there's power four institutions that are in rural areas or in areas that don't have the medical facilities that you mentioned, like an Ohio State or a Michigan or Northwestern even have, you know, right there in big cities. So you've got to really think about how you're providing access and how you're going to provide medical care. But I think you also, as an organization, have to think about the entire organization and the culture around health and safety and how we're going to be more preventative than reactive. Right. It's so much easier to prevent things from happening. It's so much easier to keep people healthy and performing at their peak than to try to recover them and be reactive when something's happened.

[Randall Williams]

So let me ask you this, let me ask you this. There were a couple different private equity deals, one at the Big 12 and another in Utah that happened. And, and we know a little bit about where that money is going to go. But if you were advising, let's use Ohio State for an example because they've had some conversations with this California pension fund that has been put on pause right now. But if you are one of these smaller schools, who's going to get this money from a pension fund, a private equity fund? How much do you think that you would advise them to spend on the medical department? Because at the end of the day, the athletes are the commerce filling up the stadiums and bringing in the revenue. No one's going to sign a sponsorship deal for a losing team or if they do, it's not going to be as highly sought out. What would you advise them if someone's signing a private equity deal or one of these pension fund deals to do with some of that money in the medical department?

[Dr. James Borchers]

Well, first of all, I'd advise them to spend a lot more than they are spending in most cases. We know that the percentage that's spent on medical care and wellness care at a lot of places is very small. And recognizing there's a lot of money and even more money now going to players. I'm very direct when I say this. I think it is the, you know, it's the one area where you can make the biggest impact in what happens with athletes. The investment there returns significantly from nutrition, mental health recovery, medical care, daily health and safety. That's invaluable. As you mentioned, keeping your athletes on the field and all the return that comes from that. So my recommendation is look at it and spend a lot more than what you think you need to be spending and really study it.

[Vanessa Perdomo]

Our thanks to Dr. James Borchers for joining us. He's Chief Medical Officer at the Big Ten Conference and President and CEO of the U.S. council for Athletes Health. And that does it for this edition of the Bloomberg Business of Sports. Tune in again next week for the latest on the stories moving big money in the world of sports. And subscribe to our podcast so you never miss an episode on all your favorite podcast platforms. You're listening to Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio around the world.

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