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- [00:02]
Podcast Host
When patients have a disease and the cause is known, it usually ends up needing a specific solution. On the podcast targeting the toughest diseases, we explore the innovative tools, methods and unique philosophy Vertex Pharmaceuticals is using to search for treatments for some of humanity's most challenging diseases. Subscribe today wherever you listen to podcasts.
- [00:31]
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- [02:18]
Bloomberg Host
News. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week.
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Bob Shea
With Carol Massar and Tim Stenovec on Bloomberg.
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Bloomberg Host
Radio. From Utah to California, ski resorts across the west delayed their opening days this due to a lack of natural snow as well as temps that were too warm to make snow. So we're talking about Jackson Hole in Wyoming, Park City and Deer Valley in Utah, Schweitzer Mountain Resort in Idaho, Heavenly and Northstar in California. They all opened later than originally.
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Bloomberg Co-Host
Planned. I'm going to let you keep going because you've been so excited about.
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Bloomberg Host
This. This has serious economic implications in the towns and states where these Resorts operate, according to the Bureau of Economic Research. It came out last year, and it said that snow activities in the economy for the US was a $7.7 billion business in 2023, and that in Colorado, Utah, and California, it was the, quote, largest conventional.
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Chase for Business Advertiser
Activity. It's a big.
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Bloomberg Host
Deal. It's a very big.
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Chase for Business Advertiser
Deal.
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Bloomberg Host
Yeah. For more on the ski industry and how this season is looking, we welcome Bob Shea. He's founder and CEO of Surefoot. Surefoot is the biggest custom ski boot company in the world. They've got 29 locations in North America, Canada, and Europe. Bob joins us here in the Bloomberg Interactive Brokers studio. Welcome. How are.
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Bob Shea
You? Thank you. Good. I'm really.
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Bloomberg Host
Good. So for people who aren't familiar haven't stepped foot into a Surefoot, explain the process, because I think people understand ski boots. But then Surefoot takes the ship shell and then. And then customizes it. What do you guys.
- [03:37]
Bob Shea
Do? I mean, basically, a person comes in the door, and then there's some conversation with them to find out their history of skiing and how much they've skied, what level they're at and everything. And then they're kind of evaluating. But then the technical part starts. We put your foot onto a 3D imaging machine, which makes an orthotic for underneath your foot. The first step in there. And then we put you onto a. Another image that takes a scan of your foot. So it really, what we do at that scan is we match that to the shell. So we basically have a visual of your foot. Exactly. And we match it into. We find the right shell for you. So now that shell matches your ability, your history in skiing, what you're, what you enjoy about the sport. And then we put it together with a custom liner that we make, and we have numerous different ones, about five or six ones. So we, you know, looking at your foot, decide from there which one's going to work best for you in the sport. And that whole process, because we've sort of packed it all together under the same roof, just takes about an hour. Where we can go from you walking in the door to walking out with a boot that's totally custom fit for your foot and ready to.
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Bloomberg Co-Host
Ski. And you've done.
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Bloomberg Host
This? Yeah, I did this back in 2021. I finally got my first pair of Surefoot boots. I mean, I've lived in places where Surefoot has had locations. And finally I was like, you know what? I'm getting to my late 30s. I don't get ski boots very much. It's time for me to have, like, a really comfortable pair of boots. And I've wanted a pair of.
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Bloomberg Co-Host
Surefoots. And they haven't always been.
- [05:06]
Bloomberg Host
Comfortable. No, they haven't. And, you know, the thing is, is, and you know, I had a scan done in like 2000, let's say 2007 maybe, for a pair of orthotics for cycling shoes. And they were able to tell when I went to the store that my foot had actually.
- [05:19]
Bob Shea
Changed.
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Bloomberg Host
Yeah. Since that. So they had to make a. They did rescan and do a new pair of orthotics based on the new scan, because I guess that's what happens when you.
- [05:27]
Bob Shea
Age. Yeah, Well, I think it's, it's. Most feet do that, you know, if you have some flexibility, mobility in your foot.
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CVS Advertiser
Too.
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Bob Shea
Right. Yeah, but go ahead. Yeah. Yeah. Over time, it really, you know, your foot's going to change a bit. And the scans are extremely precise. So it's, you know, we can be talking about a minute difference, but that minute difference is a big deal. It's a big deal in biking shoes, if you're really into it, and it's a big deal in ski.
- [05:51]
Bloomberg Co-Host
Boots. Bob, how did you get to this point? Because it, to me, it makes a lot of sense, and I'll be honest with you, I wear orthotics in just general, and it just makes such a difference in shoes and sneakers and what have you. How did you get to this.
- [06:02]
Bob Shea
Point? You know, really, it started I grew up skiing and ski racing, and boots always just killed my feet. Like, really, I have very wide forefoot and boots. You know, when you're trying to jam into a ski racing boot, it's just, there's a lot of pain. And I really, it took time off the slope. I couldn't stay out as long as I wanted to as a kid. And so over time, I just started developing ways to make it a little better. And then as I got done with ski racing in college, I was like, I don't want to leave this sport. I love the sport and I can make a difference in it. So that was really the impetus for it, you know, thinking about it and then. And then a lot of trial and error. I mean, crazy trial and.
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Bloomberg Co-Host
Error. What was the. Tell us what was some of the.
- [06:44]
Bob Shea
Error. I remember one of my first employees is that John Higgins was, you know, he was on the US Ski team and collegiate ski racer. And we were together. We're trying to make a pair of boots for me with a new, this foam material that we had found. So we, we Inject it into my foot. And he gets it all over his hands, everything. And then I'm standing there and it feels like it's going to break the bones in my foot. I'm like, John, you, you got to get this off. You got to get this off my foot. It's breaking the bones. And a guy was walking by kind of through the back corner of the space that we were in, and he was a chemical engineer, and he looks at John and goes, if you don't get that off your hands in the next like 30 seconds, it's never coming off. So now John takes off to get that off his hands. Oh my God. And I've got this on my foot. You're like, hey, hey, I think it's breaking the bones in my foot. And I'm like, but luckily it didn't. And he got it off his hand and. And we probably took a step back for a couple of years from that, but that's really how it.
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Bloomberg Host
Began. So we're going to talk more about the origin story in a few minutes. And before we get there, one of the reasons we wanted to talk to you is because you serve this higher end consumer. And we talk a lot about what the economy looks like right now. And just when you talk about skiing in general, you're already talking about a segment of the consumer that can afford to travel to a ski area, pay for an expensive lift ticket, oftentimes stay in an expensive area, and then do something that requires expensive equipment. Give us an idea. And you're a private company, so it's, you know, we don't have access to a ton of your own data. But how are, how is the consumer you're dealing with right now? How are sales? What are some numbers you can give.
- [08:21]
Bob Shea
Us? I mean, I think all of us are always a little, you know, you just kind of have this tendency when you're in business, you know, you're a little worried. But right now things are actually going along pretty well. You know, we've business were up a little, but then as you were talking about just before how we didn't have snow, we take a dip, you know, at that when it's early. But in general terms we see the consumer is fairly strong, you know, coming in and you know, you know, what's really happened to him. I think that people recreation is just a bigger part of our lives. We all have, you know, we want to do that, we want to be out there and luckily we're in the sport that people really.
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Bloomberg Co-Host
Love. Bob, have you Seen that coming off the pandemic of people even like, kind of that. Obviously after the pandemic, it was like, I gotta get out in the world, because I couldn't for so long. But do you see it kind of.
- [09:12]
Bob Shea
Lasting? Yeah, I mean, honestly, I see it. My own company, how many people aren't in there? I think it became more important for everybody. You know, it's like you're out of the office a bit. You got outside and. And it just. It seems healthy. And that's what, to me, it seems like happened in the mountains. We look at it like it's a healthy place to be to exercise and stuff. And so I think it's good for the. It's good for my business, good for the sport, my.
- [09:38]
Bloomberg Host
Life. Well, people in New York City know that you have a store in New York City, but it's kind of a unique store because it's. It's not near a ski mountain. I think every other store that you have, maybe save for Vancouver or. Or London. Yeah, yeah. You know, is. Is right at the base of a ski mountain is New York. Your. Your like the biggest location in terms of what it does in.
- [09:57]
Bob Shea
Sales. It was the first. It was the first city store. It's not our biggest volume store. You know, we have that in the mountains. But many of our stores are very similar in size. But really why we put them here is because, you know, there's just people who want to. There's different personalities. They want to get it done before they go to, you know, on their trip and those there. And now you can get the exact same thing. So really early season, our city stores.
- [10:22]
Bloomberg Co-Host
Flourish. I mean, how busy are you right now? Is it crazy.
- [10:25]
Bob Shea
Really? Yeah. You know, honestly, it's the most fun part of my job. I was in the New York store this morning for, you know, and it's just. I love when it's just busy in there and everyone's talking about sport and skiing and enjoying it very.
- [10:38]
Bloomberg Host
Briefly. You bought a company back in 2012 that is not a winter.
- [10:43]
Bob Shea
Company.
- [10:43]
Bloomberg Host
Yeah. And now that's attached to the store in New York City. In terms of running, how big of a growth area is running for.
- [10:50]
Bob Shea
You? You know, that that's. I mean, the reason we got into running was because we were runners to stay in shape for skiing. I mean, you know, we all run and, you know, as part of it, and then because the orthotics that we make, the custom, you know, the basis of the ski boot is used by so many athletes and runners, like Boston Marathon Winners and so many people. That's where it really came from, is that we knew a lot about feet and running and what we could, we could do with that. It's great for.
- [11:18]
Bloomberg Host
Us. So we talked about your story of you starting this company with your brother. I mean, you've been doing this for more than 40 years at this point. Completely bootstrapped, no investors. You also don't franchise at all. I'm sure this has come up when people have come, hey, you should franchise this. Why.
- [11:34]
Bob Shea
Not? You know, we get asked once a week about the franchising thing at least, but you know, it's just that we wanted to have better quality control over it and we want to give our employees opportunity. And that's what really comes down to, is that we, in order to open more stores, we train people and when they're ready to go to store, like our most recent store we opened in Big Sky, Chris Gardo, the manager there, worked for us a long, long time and he wanted to move there, so we opened a store.
- [12:01]
Bloomberg Host
There. That's pretty.
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Bloomberg Co-Host
Cool. I think that's pretty cool. I mean, I'm also assuming that folks have reached out to either invest in you, buy you up.
- [12:10]
Bob Shea
Like.
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Bloomberg Co-Host
Yeah. And you just, you're, you want to continue to go it.
- [12:14]
Bob Shea
Alone. Yeah, you know, I think it's, it's. We've had, you know, we have, my. Have had minority investors and stuff in there, but we've also had some hard knocks with those. And so as long as we control the business and we enjoy what we're doing and you know, we have. My daughter is in the business. My, you know, we have family in the business. I want to do it for a long.
- [12:34]
Bloomberg Host
Time. Yeah, go ahead.
- [12:35]
Bloomberg Co-Host
Joe. What's your supply chain like? Is everything down in the you and not in the U.S. do you have.
- [12:39]
Bob Shea
To. And I wish it was all done in the US that, you know, it's. I really wish that it was done here, but we're not able to. There's just things that are not. So. Yeah, we've had challenges with the supply chain. Right now we try to mitigate them and the cost and, and the.
- [12:54]
Bloomberg Co-Host
Tariff costs have gone.
- [12:55]
Bob Shea
Up. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's a tough, it's been a tough thing.
- [12:58]
Bloomberg Co-Host
Too.
- [12:59]
Bob Shea
Yeah. And I really think, I look back and say, wow, I'm glad this didn't happen when we were in business five years or something. I don't, I don't know how a small business gets through it. You know, we're a little able to manage it a Little better. But.
- [13:10]
Bloomberg Host
Yeah. The biggest story in the ski industry obviously is, is snow and making sure that people can actually get on mountains. The second biggest story in pretty much any ski town that you go to is the cost of.
- [13:23]
Bob Shea
Living.
- [13:23]
Bloomberg Host
Yeah. And I'm wondering, you are known for having these long tenured employees who live in the communities where you have stores and these are very transient communities because they're, they're ski areas where people come for the season and then leave. How do you, how do you make sure that you can have employees that can actually live somewhere? Like attracting and retaining a long term employee in a place where truly nobody can afford to.
- [13:46]
Bob Shea
Live? Yeah, it really has. I mean, you know, we talk about it being so hard right now, but it, you know, there's been many points where it has been, but our, what we've always tried to do is make our employees really productive. The whole system that they do, and then pay them the best that we can in there. But it is a challenge, you know, in there and you have to. Yeah, we have to deal with, I mean, look at some of these markets. They're crazy, crazy expensive now. So we have some employee housing, but the real thing is how we.
- [14:14]
Bloomberg Host
Keep. We do have employee.
- [14:15]
Bob Shea
Housing. Yeah, yeah, we do. We have employee housing. All the big markets. But that's more for new, new employees that are, you know, coming into.
- [14:24]
Bloomberg Co-Host
The company, like to help them get settled and so.
- [14:27]
Bob Shea
On. Yeah, you know, their first, second year. But all of our, you know, management and everything, we've always wanted the company. You know, I always say if we're not going up, we're going out. We have to go up to give employees opportunity to keep growing, keep growing in there. And that gives employees opportunity. Their stores keep growing, get bigger. They can be rewarded more for that and compensated. But no doubt it's, it's a big.
- [14:49]
Bloomberg Co-Host
Challenge. Where's the growth in your industry? Like, how do you think, I mean, 40 years you've been doing this. Like, it sounds like you still look for new opportunities.
- [14:56]
Bob Shea
Constantly. I mean, really what it comes down to is we're still a small percentage, you know, we're probably somewhere around 3 or 4% of the dollar volume of ski boots sold in the world. And so we have a lot of room to grow in.
- [15:08]
Bloomberg Host
That. Would you ever consider making your own ski boot? Just to remind everybody the. You buy the shell from a company that makes the ski boot and then you do the liner and kind of everything else. But would you ever make an actual sure foot ski.
- [15:20]
Bob Shea
Boot? Yeah, I mean, we have Right now, we have 3D technology that we're working on, and with boots and everything. But I think as long as we can get the shell that we think is really great for a customer in the market, then we'll keep doing that. So what we really do is we buy the shell without the liner, so it saves the consumer money. And then we have a great shell on the outside, in the interior we've made. But we are always working on. So if I come up with a great idea about a shell, you'll see.
- [15:48]
Bloomberg Co-Host
It. You know, but in terms of growth, like, okay, no offense, but I'm, like, thinking, wait, I got orthotics, but these sound better. Like, can you. In terms of the medical market or people who go to foot doctors, what's the percentage, like, through your machine like, that you.
- [16:03]
Bob Shea
Have? It's a percentage even in that small. Yeah, we're small even. We're one of the largest makers of orthotics in the United States. But, like, actually kind of a long shot. We are, but we make so many in our stores. If you combine what we do in our stores and what we do in our factory, we're by far the largest. But there's lots of room because a lot of people don't really know how beneficial they are to.
- [16:25]
Bloomberg Co-Host
You.
- [16:25]
Bob Shea
Right. So if. If something happens to you, if all of a sudden you have plantar fasciitis, your foot's hurting, you're aching from running, that's when you start seeking us.
- [16:33]
Bloomberg Co-Host
Out. So, Bob, if somebody comes in and gets an orthotic through you, I mean, is it covered by.
- [16:39]
Bob Shea
Insurance? It is. If a doc, you know, if they have a prescription for it. Majority of what we.
- [16:44]
Bloomberg Co-Host
Sell.
- [16:45]
Bob Shea
Yeah.
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Bloomberg Host
Are. Are not.
- [16:46]
Bob Shea
That. That's not really true. In our medical division, it's mostly prescription, and then in our consumer, it's not. But, you know, they are covered, and they're the same scan. So we can make. We can do anything with.
- [16:58]
Bloomberg Co-Host
That. You know, it just seems like a mass market. Like, it's.
- [17:01]
Bob Shea
Major. It is a big.
- [17:02]
Bloomberg Co-Host
Market.
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Bloomberg Host
Yeah. Well, the reason you have that market is because you bought this company, Amphitheat, the orthotics company based in Vancouver, Washington, back in 2023. You bought super runner shops back in 2012. Any more acquisitions on the.
- [17:15]
Bob Shea
Horizon? You know, right now, we're doing something really big that we're about to introduce our own line of footwear. And the footwear is made specifically for orthotics, to fit your orthotics in it. So. So you have a Perfect platform. Like right now in ski boots, you have a perfect platform. When we make the boot, whole thing so you're standing totally aligned, put.
- [17:34]
Bloomberg Host
A pair of shoes, you pull out the insole. The orthotics can be bigger than the.
- [17:37]
Bob Shea
Insole. It doesn't fit quite right and you can't get it, you know, in there. So we are in late, in a few weeks, we're about to introduce a line of shoes that is just for that. So when you get aligned, scan your bodies put into alignment, you put it into our shoes, you're going to stand in a very balanced, comfortable.
- [17:56]
Bloomberg Co-Host
Position. You guys are doing this on your own or is it a.
- [17:58]
Bob Shea
Collaboration? We're doing it on our.
- [17:59]
Bloomberg Host
Own. I think we're breaking some news here that's pretty.
- [18:02]
Bob Shea
Cool. You know, I've debated whether I should even say this on here, but it's a big deal. We've been working on it for years and it's really cool. We have some. I was just at the World cup in Vail and I had on a pair of the winter boots and I had like four or five people ask me about them. What are those? Where are they? Oh, nice. We have a little, little luck here with the.
- [18:23]
Bloomberg Co-Host
Product. Men and.
- [18:24]
Bob Shea
Women. Yeah, we have men and women. Yeah, of course we have men and women. Ski, run.
- [18:29]
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- [19:05]
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