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- [00:02]
Carol Massar
When patients have a disease and the cause is known, it usually ends up needing a specific solution. On the podcast targeting the toughest diseases, we explore the innovative tools, methods and unique philosophy Vertex Pharmaceuticals is using to search for treatments for some of humanity's most challenging diseases. Subscribe today wherever you listen to podcasts.
- [00:32]
Tim Stanovec
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- [01:49]
Stuart Paul
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- [02:02]
Tim Stanovec
There we go.
- [02:03]
Stuart Paul
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- [02:18]
Tim Stanovec
Bloomberg Audio Studios Podcasts Radio News this.
- [02:24]
Stuart Paul
Is Bloomberg Business Week Daily reporting from the magazine that helps global leaders stay ahead with insight on the people, companies and trends shaping today's complex economy. Plus global business, finance and tech news as it happens. The Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast with Carol Massar and Tim Stanovec on Bloomberg Radio.
- [02:48]
Tim Stanovec
Hi everyone. Welcome to the Bloomberg businessweek Week Weekend Podcast. It was the final Federal Reserve meeting of the year. As expected, Fed officials cut rates by one quarter of a point, their third consecutive interest rate reduction. And I gotta say, the US Central bank also again saying that when it comes to the dual mandate, there are risks on both sides. And so it's a challenging environment for the Federal Reserve. The Fed also maintained their outlook for just one cut in 2026.
- [03:18]
Carol Massar
This time, there were three dissents from both ends of the policy spectrum, highlighting divisions among policymakers over weakness in the labor market or stubborn inflation. Fed Chair Powell also emphasized the committee is in a wait and see mode. He noted that for the third FOMC meeting in a row, quote, there is no risk free path forward. We're calling it also a challenging situation.
- [03:38]
Tim Stanovec
Yeah, we got the message. Jay Powell got it loud and clear. Hey, let's unpack. So for the latest do head over to Bloomberg.com for the latest on what economists are expecting for 2026 when it comes monetary policy. As for this hour, we're going to talk about life at the Fed after Jay Powell with Steve Moore. He's a former economic and strategic adviser to President Trump during both of his administrations.
- [04:01]
Carol Massar
Plus how cutting rates may affect bank lending today and into next year. Also, we talk power with Nextera and their push to move into data centers and gas.
- [04:11]
Tim Stanovec
I love this. This is one of the big stories, one of the big stories of the year. One of the big stories, certainly of this week. All of that to come. We begin with this week's Fed decision. President Trump is expected to announ a new Federal Reserve chair early in the new year, although there was some speculation it could come in the next couple of weeks. It's. Yeah. To say a moving story, moving target. The next Fed chair will take over Jay Powell's term, which ends in May of next year.
- [04:36]
Carol Massar
So with immediate thoughts of this week's Fed decision and on fed leadership come 2026, we've got a great roundtable. Steve Moore is with us. He's co founder and chair of the nonprofit Unleash Prosperity. He's a former economic and senior policy adviser to Donald Trump in 2016 and 2024 and served as chief economist and distinguished visiting fellow at the Heritage foundation for 12 years.
- [04:56]
Tim Stanovec
Yeah. He's also written a bunch of books including Trumponomics Inside the First Plan to Revive Our Economy. Also another one, the Trump Economic Miracle. And you might remember back in 2019, President Trump selected Steve Moore for the Federal Reserve Board of Governors, which Moore ultimately withdrew from. So we have a lot to unpack and talk about. Steve joins us from Palm Beach, Florida. Great to have him here. Also with us is Bloomberg Economics, US And Canada economist Stuart Paul, he's right here in our Bloomberg Interactive broker studio. Steve, I want to kick it off with you.
- [05:26]
Carol Massar
Welcome.
- [05:26]
Tim Stanovec
Nice to have you here on Bloomberg. Your key takeaways from Fed decision.
- [05:32]
Steve Moore
Well, it was certainly Wall street was happy with what happened. It was very expected that the Fed did exactly what they announced. Trump, of course, wants more rate cuts. You know, look, inflation has come down and it's still not where we want it to be. We want it to be at the 2% Fed target. And so we're running about 2.7, 2.8. So there's still work to be done to bring inflation down. Of course, if you bring inflation down, affordability goes up. But look, this is a booming economy right now. It is so hot. Trump is right about that. And 2026 is going to be a monster year for growth and for incomes and I believe for equities.
- [06:12]
Carol Massar
If you were on the FOMC and a voting member, how would you have voted? What would you have wanted to see?
- [06:17]
Steve Moore
I would have done exactly what they did.
- [06:18]
Carol Massar
You wouldn't have gone 50 basis points like Steven Myron.
- [06:22]
Steve Moore
No, I'm a little bit more of an inflation hawk than Steven. Steven, I know Stephen, he's a smart economist. I lean towards making sure. I think the top priority of the Fed should be to make sure that we bring that inflation rate down to the target level. We're not there yet. And you know, look at the, as a political matter, Trump really needs to continue to bring that inflation rate down because people are still angry about, about prices.
- [06:48]
Stuart Paul
Mr. Moore, it's really difficult to square the circle between being in an inflation hawk and voting for or advocating for additional rate cuts. When you see somebody like President Trump focusing so much on affordability, but at the same time calling for the Fed to cut rates even more, how do you really square the circle? How would you rationalize voting for a cut while also being an inflation hawk?
- [07:09]
Steve Moore
I believe that Wall street puts way, way, way too much influence and interest in Fed rate cuts. I mean, nobody, the short term interest rate is, has become almost irrelevant. So I really don't believe that it's all that important, frankly. Whether it was a quarter point or 50%, you know, 50 points or doing nothing, I don't think that it makes all that much difference. We should have learned the lesson, by the way. What, look what we, Excuse me. What we'd all like to see is for those mortgage rates to come down and the 10 year treasury interest rate to come down. Well, the Fed doesn't control that. I know that may Surprise people watching this. The Fed has no, you know, impact on the 10 year treasury or the 30 year mortgage. And we know that by the way. And what happened in 2024 when the Fed cut the discount rate and what happened to the, I mean the fed funds rate and what happened to the mortgage rate in the 10 year Treasury? It went up. So I don't, I don't overly obsess about Fed rate cuts. I think we're in a pretty good look. The, the most important thing is this incredibly healthy economy. We've got hundreds of billions of dollars coming into the US economy of foreign investment. We've got the highest s and P500, the highest Dow and the highest NASDAQ in the history of the country. People are making huge amounts of money. And this is a bet when the markets go up, this is a bet that policy will be well guided and that American companies are going to make. I have a hard time really having many, much problem with the direction that we're going in with respect to this economy. And don't forget the, and starting in January, people will start to see the, you know, middle income people will start to feel the impact of those big beautiful tax cuts that passed in terms of less money deducted from their paychecks and taxes and the no tax on tips, the no tax on overtime. Those are all positive features that will help middle class Americans.
- [09:14]
Stuart Paul
That's a really interesting point. That fiscal policy is going to be especially accommodative in 2026. And I think that one thing that's interesting is whether we're going to see monetary policy that's equally accommodative or even more so. And that's going to really depend on who we get as the next chairman of the Federal Reserve and chairman of the fomc. What do you make of the White House's floating of a trial balloon with Kevin Hassett about three weeks ago and then seeming to reconsider. You know, if there's anybody in the world who recognizes how difficult a process it can be to make it through the Senate, it's you. And so I'm really interested to hear.
- [09:52]
Will Wade
What your thoughts on what your thoughts.
- [09:54]
Stuart Paul
Are about what's going on in the White House and on Capitol Hill in terms of whipping up the votes to support someone perhaps like Hassett or Warsh.
- [10:01]
Steve Moore
I like them both. I mean, I think the two covens, I've been saying this for two years now that, you know, it should be one of those two. As the Fed chairman, I also like Larry Kudlow But I don't think Larry probably is in the runnings to do it, but he'd be an excellent Fed chair as well. But look, the two companies are monetary experts. They're extraordinary economists. I really, truly, either one of them, I think, would be fantastic picks. And I think they would also keep their eye on the most important thing that the Fed needs to do, which is defend the dollar. Defend the dollar, make sure that it's strong and stable. That's all the Fed needs to do. It doesn't have to worry about jobs, it doesn't have to worry about climate change or any of these other things. The most important thing is to keep prices stable and the dollar strong. I think both would do that.
- [10:51]
Tim Stanovec
Steve, you have some great insight into President Trump behind closed doors. You know, he did nominate you for a Fed governor position. You ultimately backed out of it. But I'm just curious, what were your conversations with President Trump or what insight can you give to our audience and audience trying to understand, read the tea leaves, because we do have a president that most would agree that he's transactional. And so I think we're trying to understand that. In terms of any appointments, is that seen as an expectation that you're going to do the President Trump's bidding and listen to him if you are at the Fed in terms of what needs to be done in cutting rates, if that's what he wants?
- [11:32]
Steve Moore
Well, look, my opinion is that it is valuable to have an independent Fed, but I also believe the net, the Fed needs to be accountable. And in my opinion, it hasn't been accountable in the last few years. That's why we got, you know, a 9% inflation under, under the current Joan Powell and well, wouldn't you say that.
- [11:54]
Tim Stanovec
That 9% was the result of the pandemic and incredible demand? I mean, there were some, you know, unexpected events, policy to fiscal policy. There was a lot of money sloshing around when you can see that, that 9% inflation. Any president or any Fed chair would have had to deal with that.
- [12:12]
Steve Moore
Well, listen, I mean, I do think that Trump made a big mistake in that he passed a big massive spending bill right before he left office. So you could you make a good point. But it was catastrophic. Everything that happened under, under Covid. We made the biggest mistake in the history of the United States and shutting down our economy, shutting down our schools, shutting down our hospital. It was outrageous. And I think we've hopefully learned that Leviticus a lesson that we'll never, never do it again. But you are quite correct. That what caused the inflation, and I hope we remember this lesson for many, many decades to come, is that when you massively spend $4 trillion, guess what? You're going to have inflation. And it didn't stimulate the economy. It caused, it caused huge, huge reductions in real incomes for middle class people. It destroyed middle, middle class incomes. They lost massive amounts of money because we very stupidly printed all this money and spent it, dropped it out of helicopters and that, that's a policy that's never worked.
- [13:14]
Carol Massar
Look, I think, I think it's an important, you bring up a lot of important points about what happened during the pandemic and the causes of inflation. But to Carol's point, you know, you do have this direct line to the White House and to the President. You advised him back in 2016, you advised him in 2024. How would you characterize your relationship with him right now? And to what extent are you and how often are you speaking to him about economic matters that hit the United States?
- [13:36]
Steve Moore
What I tell him is that I think the tax cuts have been enormously beneficial and it's not accommodative fiscal policy on the tax side. What it is, I mean, like one of the most important things we did in the big beautiful bill was we are allowing businesses to, to, you know, instantly capitalize their expenditures and write them off instantly. And I believe that's one of the reasons we're seeing this capital boom in the United States. I mean, if you look at the last nine months, capital investment has been really strong as a result of, of this tax cut. So it's, it wasn't really meant to just pump money into the economy. It was meant to incentivize through lower tax rates, lower lowering the corporate rate, lower, you know, giving, expensing, lowering the individual income tax rate. Those are pro growth, pro supply side policies that actually help bring inflation down. I mean, it's very simple. If the economy produces more prices go down.
- [14:34]
Tim Stanovec
Hey, one of the things, I do want to go back to this idea of transactional and again, I want to go back to the insight that you have in having conversations with President Trump before he made a nomination for you to join the Fed and be a governor. Because we've heard the president come out and say, Jay Powell has been very bad for our country. He's terrible, he's a terrible Fed chair. I'd love for him to lower interest rates. I call him too late. I'd love to fire him. Tell us about, would there be pressure by President Trump with who he appoints for the next Fed chair. And would there be an assumption by the person who takes that position to kind of do the President's bidding? Give us some insight if you could.
- [15:17]
Steve Moore
Well, I'll put it a little differently. It's a good question. First of all, when I was nominated to be on the Fed, Trump never really asked me about, well, would you cut rates or would you raise rates or so on. He just, he had trusted me as an economist that I would get it right. So there was no pressure to sort of do his bidding. Now, with respect to Kevin Hassett or Kevin Warsh, which I think there's a good chance it's going to be one of those two, what he is doing is picking someone you say do his bidding. He's picking someone who agrees with his overall economic philosophy. And that's exactly what a president should do. I don't think that means undue influence on the independence of the Fed, but I think it's basically, you know, presidents deserve the monetary policy they want, frankly. And so, you know, I think they will, they will. Do they agree with Trump on monetary policy? And that's one of the reasons one of the two of them will be chosen. But I can't think of two economists I admire more than Kevin Hassett and Kevin Warsh.
- [16:23]
Stuart Paul
It's interesting that you bring up President Trump's economic philosophy, because I think that if you were to put press him to describe his economic philosophy with regards to monetary policy, he would just say he's a low interest rate guy. So is the expectation going to be from Kevin Hasset or Kevin Warsh that they will just deliver low interest rates?
- [16:44]
Steve Moore
You know, you make a good point. The one thing that Trump has often said to me is that he likes low interest rates. And I've always said, well, Mr. President, low interest rates are good, but we also want to make sure we don't cause inflation. And so that is the kind of dual competing interests here. But I think he gets it that, you know, what destroys a presidency is inflation. For whatever reason, you know, we saw Jimmy Carter, Jimmy Carter lose because of inflation. We saw Jerry Ford lose because of inflation. We saw this. I think the major factor in this last presidential election was inflation. Americans hate, hate, hate higher prices. It's one of the reasons they're still in a foul mood on the economy. So I believe that Kevin Hassett and, and Kevin Warsh, either one of them will be an inflation hawk, and they will, I predict we will bring that inflation rate down to 2%.
- [17:40]
Tim Stanovec
But one does wonder, since he's not running again, assuming no third term, that maybe he doesn't care if there's inflation. I'm just going to put that out there. You want to go?
- [17:48]
Carol Massar
I mean, the Republicans certainly care and affordability is going to be a key message for them in the mid, for everybody in the midterm. Hey, we only have 30 seconds left. Steve, I just want to take a sharp turn here because you, because you are an economist and you watch what's happening closely. The US Taking a stake in publicly traded companies such as Intel, MP Materials and others.
- [18:08]
Stuart Paul
I don't like it.
- [18:09]
Carol Massar
Why?
- [18:09]
Steve Moore
They don't know? No, no, no. Never. You know, we, I've spent most of my career trying to privatize, not nationalize. So it's one of those issues I disagree with the president on. I don't want, I believe in separation of business and state and the less, you know, the government does to, you know, to influence business decisions, I think the better.
- [18:30]
Carol Massar
You're old school that way.
- [18:32]
Steve Moore
Yeah, I am.
- [18:33]
Carol Massar
It's a different, I hope it's not definitely a different Republican Party, at least from a business perspective today.
- [18:39]
Tim Stanovec
I think there's a lot of investors out there too, who certainly would agree with you. Steve, thank you so much. Really enjoyed this. Steve Moore, co founder and chair of the nonprofit Unleashed Prosperity and of course, as we said, a former economic and senior adviser to President Trump in both of his terms. And of course, our great thanks to our own Bloomberg Economics, US And Canada economist Stuart Paul.
- [19:03]
Carol Massar
When patients have a disease and the cause is known, it usually ends up needing a specific solution. On the podcast targeting the toughest diseases, we explore the innovative tools, methods and unique philosophy Vertex Pharmaceuticals is using to search for treatments for some of humanity's most challenging diseases.
- [19:25]
Stuart Paul
Subscribe today.
- [19:27]
Carol Massar
Wherever you listen to podcasts.
- [19:33]
Stuart Paul
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- [20:43]
Zach Wasserman
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- [21:25]
Tim Stanovec
New Adobe Acrobat studio now with AI powered PDF spaces do more with PDFs than you ever thought possible. Need AI to turn 100 pages of market research into 5 insights with a click? Do that with Acrobat. Need templates for a sales proposal that'll close that deal. Do that with Acrobat. Need an AI specialist to tailor the tone of your market report to sound real smart in real time? Do that with the all new Adobe Acrobat Studio. Learn more@adobe.com do that with Acrobat.
- [21:56]
Stuart Paul
You're listening to the Bloomberg Businessweek Daily Podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5pm Eastern. Listen on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app or watch us live on YouTube.
- [22:10]
Tim Stanovec
Let's get more on this week's Fed decision and really the macro environment when it comes to consumers and businesses and also what we are seeing when it comes to bank lending today and maybe an outlook into the new year. One company, one bank paying closely to attention to this is Ohio based Huntington Bank Shares. The bank has a market cap of nearly $27 billion and recently has been expanding with targeted acquisitions. It's had a pretty busy year, Tim.
- [22:34]
Carol Massar
With perspective on interest rates, the consumer and the 2026 financial outlook, we turn to Zach Wasserman. He's Chief Financial Officer of Huntington Bank Shares and he joined us in the Bloomberg Interactive Brokers Studio. Zach, great to talk with you again. Especially appreciate you coming into the studio. Did the Fed get it right?
- [22:50]
Zach Wasserman
I think they did. You know the the analysis they did that showed the labor market still of course softening to some degree but Inflation pressures continuing to, to be present and, and with a potential for some higher price pressures as we go into the early part of next year. I think they got it right and I think the outlook for, they've signaled probably one additional cut into 2026. The market, by the way, is baking in. Two cuts for 2026, somewhere in that range seems very likely and I think helpful for the economy at this point.
- [23:20]
Tim Stanovec
All right, Zach, so if you were sitting down with Jay Powell, what would you want to ask him right now?
- [23:26]
Zach Wasserman
That's a good question. What is he going to do after he leaves his job?
- [23:29]
Carol Massar
Do you think he will leave his job in the spring?
- [23:32]
Zach Wasserman
I would think so. That's my, that's my.
- [23:34]
Tim Stanovec
But do you think then also Kevin Hassett is a given. Like we're seeing that the President's meeting with Kevin Warsh like, so it feels like things are still fluid.
- [23:42]
Zach Wasserman
Well, I'm not a party to those discussions. I have no clue. But I certainly think that, you know, as the, you know, as they, as they think about how that how they're going to chart their course on interest rate policy, I think the path that they've chosen at this point appears to be the right one. Very Data Reliant appears to be, you know, we're landing the economy in a sweet spot.
- [24:03]
Carol Massar
Okay, so can, can Carol, are you done with Fed stuff? Can I talk M and A here?
- [24:08]
Tim Stanovec
Yes, I want to.
- [24:09]
Carol Massar
You guys have been so acquisitive. I mean, there's been a lot of M and A in your space. You've been much more aggressive than others in your peer group. Why now in terms of the aggressive, aggressive posture?
- [24:20]
Zach Wasserman
Well, I wouldn't characterize our posture as aggressive. It's really, you know, for us, expansive.
- [24:24]
Tim Stanovec
That's for sure.
- [24:24]
Zach Wasserman
Well, certainly it's expansive. It's been, it's been a dynamic year for us, but primarily from an organic growth perspective. You know, Huntington has been growing way faster than almost any other bank in the industry at this point from an organic perspective. And so when we think about these partnerships that we've announced, we're pleasure to announce two partnerships this year. It's really all in service of sustainable long term organic growth.
- [24:45]
Carol Massar
We want to you call them partnerships, not acquisitions.
- [24:46]
Zach Wasserman
We really do. And that's intentional. The partnerships we've created with Veritex bank and then Cadence bank really are in fact bringing these organizations together, making one plus one equals three. And for us, we'll be a powerhouse in Texas. We'll be present in a lot of terrific markets across the south, and, and really together we're going to be a much stronger organization. So they really are partnerships and ultimately all in service of long term sustainable organic growth.
- [25:14]
Tim Stanovec
So, you know, I've got family in South Carolina. They've noticed some economic softness and certainly the Veritex deal was about North Carolina and South Carolina. They've seen softness in real estate, which had been on fire. I'm just curious, your expansion plans there, your organic growth that you want to do there. I think you guys were looking to open more than 5, 50 branches in those states. So is that impacting any of the growth or you're on target for that?
- [25:40]
Zach Wasserman
We're on target for that. In fact, next year we expect to open one branch every two weeks in the Carolinas. So we've got some products for your family and we'd love to take you on as a customer, but we're really excited about that. In fact, the market reception we've had so far has been tremendous. We've opened several new branch locations just in the last few months and each of them have beat their full year, first year deposit plan before they've even opened. To give you a sense, because the market reception has been so strong.
- [26:05]
Carol Massar
So with the. Look, I know, you know, I can ask the question, but in terms of what you have planned, any more acquisitions? You know, look, we, how are you thinking about it?
- [26:15]
Zach Wasserman
The way we're thinking about it is if something comes up, KeyBank CEO said.
- [26:19]
Tim Stanovec
They expect more, they expect more acquisitions to happen.
- [26:23]
Zach Wasserman
Do you know, I think the industry has been consolidating for 20 years. It will continue to grow, consolidate. For us, if something comes up that's, that's, that's accretive to organic growth. That's a great fit for us. We'll consider it. But otherwise it's all about organic growth for us.
- [26:36]
Carol Massar
Geographically, what's an area of the country that's of interest to you, where you're, where you don't have a presence?
- [26:40]
Zach Wasserman
We love the markets that we're in right now. Yeah, our markets, we're going to be in 21 states, covering more than 50% of the population of the country and in markets collectively that are growing 30% faster.
- [26:51]
Carol Massar
But a lot of states you're not in.
- [26:53]
Will Wade
True.
- [26:54]
Zach Wasserman
You know, I think our view is we're not trying to be a national bank, we're trying.
- [26:58]
Tim Stanovec
You are not trying to be a national state explicitly. Okay.
- [27:01]
Zach Wasserman
We want to be deeply present in the states that we're in.
- [27:03]
Carol Massar
So would that mean that if there were more expansion, it would be within the states that you're already in. So you can become bigger in those places rather than expanding the geographic footprint to places if something fit.
- [27:13]
Zach Wasserman
I think that that's the right characterization. Okay, yes, but I think again that's not our, our objective is not M and A per se. Our objective is organic growth.
- [27:19]
Tim Stanovec
The Goldman Financials Conference and I think that's part of also why the KBW bank index really rallied in a big way. Outperformance about two and a half percent higher. They many said and you guys presented there too that they're seeing a stable consumer despite worries of an economic slowdown. What are you guys seeing?
- [27:37]
Zach Wasserman
We're seeing the same. I think we just were up on stage this morning ourselves.
- [27:40]
Tim Stanovec
Stable consumer.
- [27:42]
Zach Wasserman
Stable consumer. Pipelines continue to be strong from a lending perspective on both consumer and consumption. Commercial profitability is very strong. Credit is very stable. It really looks like a solid economy from our perspective. If all you did was read our internal reports.
- [27:57]
Kabir Nath
Yeah.
- [27:58]
Zach Wasserman
It would belie what you're hearing in terms of the headlines which is very encouraging as we go into the end of this year and into next year.
- [28:04]
Carol Massar
Why do you think you're seeing that distinction like you're seeing something? The anecdotes and indeed some data are showing softness in places. Why are you seeing strength?
- [28:13]
Zach Wasserman
Well look, I think in total you're seeing consumer spending continues to grow, grow. Corporations I think are more confident today than they would have been at the middle of this year when there was more uncertainties in the environment. We've had a tax bill pass, we've had more tariffs, certainty come into come into the environment. The government is now functioning again. I think as companies are looking forward into 26 they're seeing this is another year of growth. The Fed just came out today saying that the outlook for economic growth next year was more than 2% GDP. And so that looks like an environment where we should continue to be investing, continue to be expanding, continue to be expanding. You know from a commercial and consumer perspective there is of course a bit of a so called K shaped shaped economy happening. And yeah, I think certain segments of the consumer environment have faced pressures particularly from inflation and higher interest rates. Our bank does not have much exposure to that and I think in many cases the net of growth is continue to be positive.
- [29:10]
Tim Stanovec
Who is your typical consumer?
- [29:11]
Zach Wasserman
You know from us we're focused on the mass affluent consumer base and that's specifically target.
- [29:17]
Chris Anthony
We do.
- [29:18]
Tim Stanovec
Okay, sorry, forgive me. Go ahead.
- [29:19]
Zach Wasserman
We target the mass affluent and we've got a very strong base of Consumers that are, that are in that segment. And then of course we're also one of the larger, largest small business banks and commercial banks in the country as well.
- [29:32]
Carol Massar
What does mass affluent mean in your markets?
- [29:34]
Zach Wasserman
You know, typically we're looking at customers who have a net worth of, or income of more than $100,000 net worth that are, that are high. Of course we, we bank everyone and we really, our tagline is welcome to all and we mean that. But for the most part our business is concentrated in that mass affluent segment.
- [29:49]
Tim Stanovec
So loan origination activity. Tell us about what you're kind of seeing since you last reported.
- [29:54]
Zach Wasserman
Yeah, in fact we just this morning showed quarter to date loan growth of $2.8 billion sequentially from last quarter. Yeah, we're growing at about 8 to 9% year on year right now and actually exceeding our own forecast that we set just a month ago.
- [30:08]
Carol Massar
In the Fred press conference today, I found what Jay Powell said about AI really fascinating. This idea of productivity.
- [30:15]
Zach Wasserman
Yeah.
- [30:16]
Carol Massar
And it's going to get me to ask every single person I talk to about not just how they're using AI, but like productivity increases at your bank. Like what are you seeing, how are they using it?
- [30:26]
Zach Wasserman
We're doing a lot in AI actually and it's increasing. It sure is. I mean to give you a sense, last year in the fourth quarter we had two gen AI projects going through our risk evaluation and implementation. Today we have 30, there's about a dozen per month that are coming into the pipeline. Software engineering is being made much more, more productive. We're seeing all manner of internal process improvement and, and now customer facing applications as well. Things that make the loan approval process seamless and more effective, more personalized service.
- [30:57]
Carol Massar
So is that going to increase earnings for you?
- [30:58]
Zach Wasserman
You look, I think it will, it will certainly create capacity for us to then invest more. You know, our modus operandi is to harvest and try to drive efficiencies in the baseline costs so that we could deploy those expenses into investments.
- [31:12]
Tim Stanovec
A few years ago I actually drive up to make a deposit. I used to talk to a teller. I mean I was a kid at the time, you know, and had my little book. But having said that, I don't talk to a teller for the most part anymore. So Will, I enjoy your estimation. We are talking to CEOs, our team, our tech team just did a big AI report and they're talking to executives across industries. Everybody seems to be in on AI. But in terms of Fed chair Jay Powell saying AI hasn't really impacted the labor market yet will it does it? It has to, right?
- [31:43]
Zach Wasserman
Look, I think in the end I will touch almost every element of human life and commercial activity and ultimately will supplant many of the more rote processes that we use people to do. But it'll mean people could do other things. This will be a change in the labor force in terms of what people are doing. And there's things that people can uniquely do. Make judgments, be creative, interact with other people, lead organizations. I think what's incumbent upon all employees, and I think about this myself is, you know, where can I shift my activities to where I uniquely add value?
- [32:20]
Tim Stanovec
People matter. You matter.
- [32:22]
Chris Rouser
You matter.
- [32:22]
Carol Massar
Oh, thank you.
- [32:23]
Tim Stanovec
I'm just saying. Zach Wasserman, thank you so much.
- [32:26]
Carol Massar
Great to be with you.
- [32:28]
Stuart Paul
This is the Bloomberg Business Week daily podcast. Listen live each weekday starting at 2pm Eastern on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg 1130.
- [32:46]
Tim Stanovec
So next with us we want to get into what we have been talking about a lot this year, Matt, and that is the air and data center build out. It is really one of the biggest stories of really this year. But also I feel like the last few years question remains of where all the power needed for them will come from and who will pay for it. And on that we had Nextera Energy. It's a clean energy company, focuses on wind, solar and battery storage energy. They announced plans to expand into nat gas, natural gas, including a power plant deal with Exxon and Google and plans to buy the gas retailer Symmetry Energy Solutions. The company also announced a deal with Metta to supply it with both clean energy and evaluate a new gas fired power plant out in the Midwest. And then don't forget back in October the company also made some headlines with plans to revive a nuclear power plant for Google's data centers. This has been an all in theme if you will this year. So let's get into it with two of our team members, Bloomberg News energy reporters Will Wade and Josh Saul both here in studio. So guys, I mean deals being made, we know that there's a lot going on. Josh, let me start with you. In terms of significant changes, is a lot of this just talk or are we starting to see action in terms of changes to the grid, adding capacity? What are we seeing?
- [33:58]
Zach Wasserman
Thanks.
- [33:59]
Will Wade
First I'd say Nextera, not just a clean energy company, it's a huge utility and then they have a big development arm that historically has done a massive amount of Clean energy. What's changing is that they're going, that development arm is going more and more into developing gas and then also turning on, turning back on a nuclear power plant in order to power these data centers. So it's what we saw was really investors looking at that change and saying we're not sure that that change is happening fast enough and strong enough for what we expected. So.
- [34:32]
Stuart Paul
But they are like a best in class developer of especially renewable energy. Right. As well. Hence next era, can they become a best in class gas developer?
- [34:44]
Will Wade
The investors we talk to think that they can. But similar to what we've seen with some of the independent power producers, there's just a really big hunger among investors to see these deals coming faster and faster. And investors want more details. They're fine to see a big new announcement saying that we plan to do things with Google, but they want to see signed contracts for deals with price points and timelines. And when we don't see those kind of details, we see big share drops.
- [35:12]
Tim Stanovec
Well, that's it. You know, Will come on in on here because I think, you know, some of what we were hearing, I was hearing for a while too, was that when it comes to companies, especially kind of the Mag 7, the big hyperscalers, they were signing up or announcing deals with a lot of different utility companies, but because they wanted to make sure wherever they got their power, they got power and that maybe not all of that would be carried out. In other words, they wouldn't get power from all of them.
- [35:38]
Stuart Paul
Yeah, we've seen just deal after deal after deal. All these tech companies, they need as much electricity as they can get it and they need it, they need it yesterday. They can't bring it on fast enough. And we've seen a lot of people talking about building power plants, but we really need to see these plants actually getting built and getting connected to the grid and sending real electricity.
- [36:01]
Tim Stanovec
Why aren't they getting built? Is it because they're expensive? There's regulatory issues. There's where you build them. Issues like what is it?
- [36:07]
Stuart Paul
There's a lot of regulatory issues. It used to be expensive, but tech companies have so much money to throw at the problem that I wouldn't say that's top of the list nowadays, but there's definitely connection problems. We need to build the wiring to deliver the power. There's just so much stuff that has to happen. You know, I can't remember who wrote it, but a couple of years ago there was an insane BusinessWeek story about how difficult it was to put up lines right from power developers to the end customer. And it took, you know, years and years of trying to get through this regulation. Is there any sign that this administration is going to be getting rid of that administrator, that regulation as it, as it has, you know, wanted to do?
- [36:56]
Will Wade
I've written stories like that. There's a power line that was going through Colorado that had been planned for, for 17 years to get the, you know, to wind energy from Wyoming to, you know, all the people in Southern California was where that line was supposed to go. And it just kept getting hung up on different things. The Trump administration has made announcements and has executive orders about clearing out red tape and making all of this happen faster. But the actual, the actual grease, the actual what's needed to speed that up, I think takes even kind of deeper work in these regulatory agencies. And it remains to be seen whether any of that, any of that bluster actually ends up taking, speeding things up.
- [37:33]
Stuart Paul
Big executive orders just canceling state regulations on this and taking over with federal control.
- [37:39]
Tim Stanovec
Well, that's the difference, right? Because the states have some say in all of that.
- [37:42]
Stuart Paul
This, they do. And the executive orders can't just wipe out existing laws. As much as Trump thinks sometimes he has that power, he doesn't have all the power he thinks he has. So all of these things that the President has said we're going to do this, it really bumps up against the realities of the regulatory process. It does seem like this administration is against certain forms of power generation, wind for example. It's no secret that Donald Trump hates wind power. He cares a lot about birds and he's worried about them. He's taken huge steps to make it much harder to develop wind power and solar power. And he really would love to see more gas and anything to do with fossil fuels. But it's, it's a short sighted policy. We really do need everything. And you know, solar is the fastest thing we can build, but gas is pretty close to it. And that's probably what we going to see a lot of real soon. But if we're going to build 15 gigawatts of power, new power production in the next what, seven years, don't we need to use every possible source?
- [38:48]
Will Wade
We definitely, we definitely do. But what we saw, I was looking, I was pouring through the next era release today and the, you see their renewable plans kind of going up through 2030. But then there's the phase out, you know, the Trump phase out of clean energy tax credits and then they, they sort of plateau.
- [39:04]
Tim Stanovec
Well, the other thing is nuclear and we've talked a lot about nuclear. Like this is not everybody's talking about it like it's going to just happen tomorrow. And it's. That's not the case. This is years in the making still.
- [39:15]
Stuart Paul
The line I've been using about nuclear for the past few months is that there's a lot happening in nuclear and there's nothing happening in nuclear. So lots of people are talking about it. There's smart people trying to do smart things. It just moves slower than anything else we write about. So nuclear, I guess, must be almost as beloved as coal and natural gas by this administration. Is what we're seeing with Nextera is that kind of an admission that the clean energy, you know, renewable economics without these tax credits just don't really work out.
- [39:50]
Will Wade
Nextera makes the point a lot that the clean energy is the fastest way to hook up new data centers. But I think they also see that with kind of that with the headwind of the Trump tax credits going away, they need to, in order to get the kind of earnings growth that investors expect, they have to expand beyond clean energy and do a lot more gas, which they've already done with their regulated utility, but they need to do with their unregulated development arm. And they need to get this data center game really dialed down.
- [40:18]
Tim Stanovec
But we've talked, right, guys? I mean, when it comes to wind, solar, like these alternative energy, they financially make sense for a lot of businesses. Much more than they did initially.
- [40:27]
Stuart Paul
Right.
- [40:27]
Tim Stanovec
They make sense in terms of the investment, the cost are wind and solar.
- [40:32]
Stuart Paul
Are the cheapest forms of new power to build.
- [40:34]
Tim Stanovec
Yeah.
- [40:35]
Stuart Paul
Have been for a while.
- [40:36]
Tim Stanovec
So why aren't we doing well?
- [40:37]
Stuart Paul
But also, I mean, try getting a turbine right now. I mean, it's not a gas turbine, no wind propeller. Right. Isn't the waiting list years? It's the gas turbines that we're seeing the biggest wait list for these days. And especially because the hostility of the Trump administration for the wind farms I haven't heard as many complaints about. So you can get the wind turbines, you can get the windmills, but you.
- [41:03]
Tim Stanovec
Can'T get the gas turbines for your backyard. Okay.
- [41:05]
Stuart Paul
But it's hard to connect. There's still a years long wait to connect new power to the grid.
- [41:10]
Will Wade
Yeah. You run into the same sort of permitting and roadblocks that you do kind of with anything.
- [41:14]
Tim Stanovec
Well, is the grid ready for all of this extra energy? I mean, Josh, I mean, that's the other thing that we've talked about, I feel like for years.
- [41:20]
Will Wade
So that gets us into the thing that my team has been talking about the most recently, which is affordability. Just two steps to get there. Upgrading the grid in order to add all these new data centers and also all this new clean energy just takes a lot of upgrades, a lot of, A lot of making the grid stronger, better, faster, more transmission lines running around to connect in both data centers and also to connect in new, new form, new forms of power, whether it's a gas plant or solar. All those upgrades cost a lot of money. Those costs are spread out pretty broadly among all customers. So we're seeing big rate increases, big bill increases for customers. And people are angry. People are really mad. And we saw that in elections in Virginia, New Jersey. Yes. And we expect to see it in the midterms next year.
- [42:04]
Tim Stanovec
It's so funny. I was just with a bunch of family down like in South Carolina, and that's what we talked about. Power prices and how they are incented to do things like, you know, air conditioning. Do it, I guess, at night or something. And so. And then turn it off like when they get up so that the house stays cool. But they're not taxing the grid when everybody else is.
- [42:24]
Will Wade
Some of that's good, some efficiency is good. But the level, the level, the level of anger and people talking about it the way they've historically talked about gas, gasoline prices, or more recently, eggs and groceries. The fact that that's now sloshing over onto utilities is a rough thing for these companies to deal with.
- [42:40]
Tim Stanovec
Is it just likely to get worse? Well, because it's just the demand is increasingly there.
- [42:45]
Stuart Paul
Yeah, we definitely think power prices are going to continue to go up. We'll hear a lot more about it next year during the elections. And don't forget about the cost to upgrade the grid to protect it from climate change issues, wildfires and hurricanes. That's another cost that's going to. Everyone is going to have to bear.
- [43:04]
Will Wade
One way an analyst put it to me is power bills are going up across the country. Different, different reasons in different places. Might be going up in California because of wild. Because of wildfire resilience. Might be going up in Baltimore because of the proximity to data center alley, but power bills are going up almost entirely across the country.
- [43:20]
Stuart Paul
Can I just ask on. On nuclear. Well, because this is your bag, right. I get that there won't be too many new projects coming online anytime soon. Right. You were down at the opening of a new nuclear plant in Georgia. That was last year. I know, but. Okay, I remember you talking about it.
- [43:39]
Will Wade
But.
- [43:39]
Stuart Paul
But what about recommissioned. What about decommissioned plants being brought back on line like three mile, like Palisades, like how many of those are we going to see that will increase the nuclear power capacity soon? It's a short list and almost everyone on the list is, it's happening now. Like the next Arrow one, that's the Joy and Arnold plant in Iowa. We heard about that just a little while ago. There are Three Mile Islands coming on in 2027. Palisades is coming on January, February, and after that there's just not that many that are good candidates. So we're going to hear more about the ones. I think people are exploring them. There is the VC summer plant in the Carolinas. So people are looking at doing that for everyone that they possibly can make an economic case for doing it.
- [44:27]
Will Wade
I mean some of the old ones, they cut them up and took them away. I went and toured one a few years ago in Vermont, the Vermont Yankee plant. And that plant was decommissioned when power prices were low, when we were, when we were long power. And I went up there and by the time I went up there and I think 2023, we were starting to see some of the increase in power demand. And while I was there I was a little like, you guys sure you want to cut this up? But I mean the process had started. It was decommissioned. They cut the thing apart. It was all taken on special trains to Texas where it's buried very deep in, in the Texas dirt because that's what you do with radioactive material. You can't, can't find Texas.
- [45:01]
Chris Anthony
It's hot.
- [45:01]
Tim Stanovec
I mean you gotta do something with this stuff.
- [45:03]
Will Wade
Can't fire that one back up.
- [45:04]
Tim Stanovec
Hey guys, thank you so much. Really enjoyed this. Really smart. Josh Saul, energy reporter at Bloomberg News here in our Bloomberg Interactive broker studio. Will Wade, also energy reporter at Bloomberg News, also right here in studio.
- [45:18]
Stuart Paul
Support for the show comes from public. On public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI it all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com market and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com market paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures with.
- [46:28]
Zach Wasserman
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Tim Stanovec
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Stuart Paul
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Tim Stanovec
There we go.
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Stuart Paul
Get the Internet you need at the price you want. Verizon Business Starting price for lte Business Internet 25 Mbps Unlimited Data Plan with select Verizon Business Smartphone plan Savings terms apply. You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5pm Eastern Eastern. Listen on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app or watch us live on YouTube.
- [48:25]
Tim Stanovec
Play head in our second hour of the weekend edition of Bloomberg Businessweek, including the CEO of Compass Pathways. Back with us. That's the company behind treating depression and PTSD using Psilocybin. We'll get an update on their route.
- [48:38]
Carol Massar
To FDA approval, plus tips on organizing a loved one's estate and the perfect timepiece Gift?
- [48:44]
Kabir Nath
Yes.
- [48:44]
Carol Massar
We're talking about watches for all types of people in your life, price tag included, courtesy of our watch guru, Chris Rouser.
- [48:51]
Tim Stanovec
I had lots of gift ideas off of that one. Hey, first up this hour, it's called the Solar Sunbather. It has three wheels. It looks like it belongs in outer space. It could possibly though hit the roads in 2026.
- [49:02]
Carol Massar
No, it's not a SpaceX tricycle. We're talking about the futuristic looking solar powered vehicles behind Aptera Motors. This is a California based solar mobility company. It was formed back in 2019. It's in a testing phase to release its cars on the roads in select states next year. For more on the company's plans, Carol. And our car lover and very serious driver too.
- [49:24]
Tim Stanovec
Yes he is.
- [49:25]
Carol Massar
Matt Miller. Caught up with the co CEO of Aptera, Chris Anthony.
- [49:28]
Tim Stanovec
Hey Chris, Good to have you here with Matt and myself. I know he's going to take over in one minute because he's our car guy or one of our car guys. But tell us a little bit about where the company is. You're in your what, sixth year. Tell us about where the car is, where you're going, you're on the road, you're testing. Tell us a little bit about it.
- [49:46]
Chris Anthony
Yeah, Tara is currently in final validation and we're looking to press into full production in 2026. And it's just exciting to see the vehicle come together and see solar mobility finally on the road.
- [49:58]
Stuart Paul
You know, clearly the current zeitgeist is not what you would consider pro solar car. The administration seems not to be the biggest fan of alternative energy or renewable energy. On the other hand, they've given you a ton of what I must believe are very incentivizing tax rules in the current one big beautiful bill. Especially if you're going to manufacture in this country, which you are. Right?
- [50:29]
Chris Anthony
Yeah, we're manufacturing in Carlsbad, California. But you know, there is a global supply chain for, for vehicles like this and we hope that, you know, there's enough investment in the US to bring more and more of that supply chain, you know, over in time.
- [50:46]
Stuart Paul
What are the critical pieces that you need? Like what do you need to import and, and pay tariffs on and what can you get from this country in order to build your car?
- [50:59]
Chris Anthony
You know, initially we partnered with LG Chem and a company called CTNS in Korea to make our battery packs. But we're bringing the cell manufacturer over to Tennessee and bringing the equipment over to manufacture our battery packs here in Carlsbad, California. So that's been assisted by a California Energy Commission grant and we hope to, you know, have all that production here in the U.S. hopefully by the end of 2026, maybe 2027.
- [51:25]
Tim Stanovec
What's the, the, the most difficult aspect of what you're doing and trying to, to create a market essentially for it and, and then ramp up. Like what is the trickiest part right here?
- [51:36]
Carol Massar
Yeah.
- [51:36]
Chris Anthony
You know, most companies start with a minimum viable product and transportation. You know, it's kind of about the styling of the vehicle and how many cupholders it has, how many passengers. That's not really where we started. We started with how do we make the most efficient, efficient transportation possible. And then it became this solar powered masterpiece that we have now. But we really didn't know what kind of market there was. We weren't able to study the market for something that didn't exist. So we kind of had to just build what we wanted to bring to the world and then hope that people really liked it. And luckily within the first couple weeks of announcing it, we had over 4,000 orders. Now we have almost 50,000 orders for the Aptera. And you know, we think people are really excited about transportation built for efficiency, sake and something that can be solar powered. Something that you never have to worry about putting gas in. It's something you never have to worry about plugging it in.
- [52:28]
Tim Stanovec
Do you have to worry about range?
- [52:30]
Chris Anthony
The standard version of The Aptera gets 400 miles of range, plus it gets the solar charging that it gets every day just by leaving it out in the sun. But we do offer larger range models of our Aptera up to a thousand miles of range.
- [52:45]
Stuart Paul
So that's easily enough for like my daily commute. The car looks really, I mean, it looks cool, looks weird. It looks different. It's a three wheeler. I guess that would be so that you can classify it as a motorcycle. Correct me if I'm wrong. And you've got these outboard fenders on the front, two wheels and then one wheel in the back. Tell us about the design.
- [53:08]
Carol Massar
Yeah.
- [53:09]
Chris Anthony
You know, what most people don't realize is that 60 to 70% of your fuel at highway speeds just goes to pushing air out of the way, if in a typical SUV or sedan. So we started, you know, with aerodynamics when it comes to making transportation more efficient. That's why it looks more like a fish than a box. And with something that looks so unique, you also want to eliminate, you know, any weight you can. So it's very lightweight. And that made it three wheels, so there's less rolling Resistance, less weight. And that three wheels had some unique advantages and they were classified as a motorcycle. But because it's three wheels, you don't have to have a motorcycle license because you have something over your head. You don't have to wear a helmet. And in California, EVs are no longer allowed gratis admission to the HOV lane, the high occupancy vehicle lane. So we'll be the only EV that's able to drive in the HOV lane without any restrictions.
- [54:03]
Stuart Paul
So it's, that's, that's interesting that you can get it, you can sort of weave through different regulations with three wheeled vehicle. And that's why you've seen some of the coolest experimental vehicles from the Morgan three wheeler to this Aptera car. It's got room for two people inside, right? As well as, I guess luggage or a pet or whatever you want to bring along. What's it like when you're driving around? I mean, everybody must be rubbernecking.
- [54:31]
Tim Stanovec
How come you haven't driven one yet?
- [54:33]
Stuart Paul
Yeah, how come I haven't driven one yet, Chris?
- [54:36]
Chris Anthony
Well, we need to get you in one soon, Matt. It's a pleasure to drive. It's super, super quiet. It's kind of eerily quiet because a lot of the noise you hear in a typical SUV or sedan is wind noise buffeting off the vehicle at higher speeds. But because the Aptera cuts through the wind so nicely, you don't really get a lot of that. So it's very different kind of driving experience. It's quick, it's zero to 60 in five seconds, top speed 100 miles an hour. And you know, it's, it's definitely something that gets attention. If you are an introvert, maybe this is not the vehicle for you initially because any start Starbucks that you pull up to, you're gonna, you're gonna bring.
- [55:12]
Stuart Paul
A crowd, but you can take it off the beaten path.
- [55:15]
Carol Massar
Right?
- [55:15]
Stuart Paul
I mean I, I'm sure I've seen the website because I recall pictures of maybe the Aptera on a beach or, or in the woods it comes with, or you can buy, I guess, camping gear or a kit that goes along with it so that you can get out there. And plus the fact that it's solar charging, you can charge with the sun up to 40 miles a day. Right. Means that you can really take it off, off the grid.
- [55:40]
Chris Anthony
It's a little deceptive on the storage. There's actually 35 cubic feet of storage in the back. If you put the front seat forward on the passenger side, you have seven feet of space from the tail to the tip. So you can put surfboards back there, mountain bikes. You can actually leave the hatch up. And there's a camping kit where there's a tent that goes over the back of the vehicle so you can camp two people comfortably. But most importantly, it's very cool to think about that you can drive 200 miles to your favorite camping spot, you can camp for a week and you can come back with more energy in your uptair than you left with. Unless it rains or no, it does get less solar production. You know, if it's super cloudy or if it rains, you know, if it's cloudy, you can count on maybe half of the energy production. You know, if it's a white out snow, obviously you're not going to get much solar. But it's really a whole new vehicle category vehicle that creates its own fuel. There's never been anything like it where you purchase the vehicle and you're also purchasing a lifetime's worth of fuel with it.
- [56:38]
Tim Stanovec
Yeah. Hey, we're talking with Chris Anthony, co chief executive officer of Aptera Motors, joining us from Carlsbad, California. You know, I mentioned that the company began in 2016, but it's really like an iteration of a company that goes back a while. I think going back to actually 2006, it was a company, I think it liquidated. It came back as a second company and now it's the third company. Is there anything like if someone, you know, Googles, they might be like, God, this feels a little uncomfortable. Anything that connects you to kind of the history of this company from day one?
- [57:13]
Chris Anthony
You know, I met Steve Fambro in 2005. He had a vision for how to make vehicles more efficient. He was a bit perplexed that there are some vehicles on the road that you would think should be efficient. You know, things that look aerodynamic, you know, a VW bug, why doesn't that get more than 50 miles per gallon? It really all comes down to the aerodynamic losses, the weight losses. So how would you make the most efficient vehicle possible? And that's what Steve and I set out to bring advanced engineering to, is if you really tackle the problem from a first engineering principles perspective, what do you end up with? Now you end up with a vehicle looks more like a fish. It's about £2,000. It has three wheels and it has an electric powertrain because that's the most efficient way to get energy to the wheels. You know, by happenstance, we created something that gets some, some 350 miles per gallon equivalent. And when you do that, you can put a relatively small solar package on top, but get really useful range. We get about 40 miles a day of free power just from leaving the Aptera out in the sun. So if you're like the average American and you only drive 30 miles a day, 40 miles a day of solar charging is great. You just never have to plug the vehicle in. You just leave it outside and it takes care of all your average driving needs.
- [58:30]
Tim Stanovec
So, Chris, is this something that you really see for local driving? I'm curious if it tops out at 65 miles an hour or is it. Does it. How fast can it go and can it be on highways or.
- [58:41]
Stuart Paul
What's your Vmax, dude?
- [58:42]
Tim Stanovec
Thank you.
- [58:44]
Chris Anthony
Yeah, you're the. The suspension, handling characteristics are great. You know, it's a very spirited drive. Zero to 60 in five seconds, but you're actually faster, you know, at the upper ends of the speed. You know, 30 to 60, you know, is faster and a top speed of 100 miles an hour, so definitely driving it on the highway. It's. It's made to be a Southern California vehicle. You know, lots of sun out here. It's made to be more than, you know, just a commuter vehicle. You can, you know, take it and, you know, do the family shopping. You can, you know, pick up the kids from the school. You can, you know, do a lot with this vehicle. And in terms of usability, I also.
- [59:22]
Stuart Paul
See that it can fit individuals of up to six foot eight, which is important for me because you're six. I'm six four. But I want. I need leg room. Right. I don't. I get claustrophobic in normal cars and planes, so I need my space. And by the way, zero to 60 in five seconds. When I was in college, that was what a 911 was doing. So that's respectable, really. Respectable. I mean, there's still a lot of cars that can't do that. Of course, you got the instant torque here, getting up to 100 miles an hour. I rarely exceed that speed when I'm driving to and from work. I try to come close when there's nobody around. How many orders have you got for this? I mean, how many people do you think you're going to sell this car to when it goes into final production?
- [60:08]
Tim Stanovec
20 seconds.
- [60:09]
Chris Anthony
Yeah, we've got almost 50,000 orders, but we hope to deliver up to a million Aptera in the next 10 years. It took Tesla 13 years to deliver their millionth vehicles. We hope to do it in 10.
- [60:19]
Tim Stanovec
Well, I can't Wait for Matt to try it out and report back and then you can come back on with us. Chris. Chris Anthony, co CEO of Aptera Motors, joining us.
- [60:29]
Stuart Paul
This is the Bloomberg Businessweek Daily podcast. Listen live each weekday starting at 2pm on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg 11:30.
- [60:46]
Tim Stanovec
Well, remember when we couldn't stop talking about psychedelics and their potential use for treating a range of related mental and physical health conditions? Well, this was during and just after the pandemic. But then in 2022, we saw prices collapse, money was pulling out, investors backing off and trial results weren't what they needed. Well, it's now having a resurgence.
- [61:08]
Carol Massar
Just this year, U.S. health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Said he could envision approval for psychedelic drugs as treatment for depression and trauma if clinical studies have been conducted. Plus, Bloomberg intelligence analysis estimates that the market could grow to $7 billion in sales by 2032. Analysts say that market potential quote is clear, but companies could still run into issues with regulators and in scaling up.
- [61:33]
Tim Stanovec
Yeah, still not a straight path forward. Hey, back with an update though, on his company's path to FDA approval for some of the psychedelic treatments. We caught up with Kabir Nath. He's chief executive officer of the small cap $515 million market cap company Compass Pathways. Kabir joined us alongside Alexis Christophorus, who is filling in for tip.
- [61:53]
Kabir Nath
So we're excited about the fact that we're now in a position to potentially accelerate getting this medicine to patients who so urgently need it. Let me remind you that there are 3 million patients living with persistent depression in the U.S. fewer than 5% of them today are treated with a medicine that was actually specifically studied for or is approved for treatment resistant depression. And this is depression that is chronic. It's refractory. Often people are unable to work. It has dramatic direct health care costs in terms of costs of emergency room admissions in psychiatric care, but it also has real social costs for these people people. So what's changed is we've had a really excellent conversation with the FDA about their desire to see subject to us to continuing to produce really strong results in terms of efficacy and safety. Their desire to see this move more quickly. We've completed the enrollment in our second final stage study, which we did ahead of expectations, which is really down to the phase three. This is a phase three. This is the second of our final stage studies. We've completed the enrollment of that we Expect to have the primary data from that in first quarter of next year. That will give us the second of our final stage studies. And with that, we are actually excited to be able to submit that to the agency and look to an accelerated approval.
- [63:14]
Tim Stanovec
Wow, that sounds like a really big move. I'm curious, just remind us, and we were talking with our health care team, how you guys designed the trials or research program to avoid support of the pitfalls that we've seen with, I think, about the Ecstasy and the MDMA drug application, the PT that was for ptsd. How did you guys avoid some of those pitfalls?
- [63:35]
Kabir Nath
So, first we had the opportunity to learn from some of the lessons. We've been in an excellent dialogue with the FDA now for some six or seven years since we first started this time. Since this process. Yeah, as we know, drug developing new medicines takes a long time and a lot of commitment. Yeah, we've done this in a very robust and rigorous way. We are collecting full side effect data. We're collecting all the issues, not just potential side effects such as headache and fatigue, which are transient, but also things like liking and so on, to make sure that there is really no abuse potential for this. And we've been collecting that right from the beginning.
- [64:11]
Tim Stanovec
Is there any abuse potential for this?
- [64:13]
Kabir Nath
There is no history in psilocybin of people actually seeking it out or of any abuse potential with psilocybin, which is an important point.
- [64:20]
Tim Stanovec
I'm putting my investor hat on for a moment, and I need to ask you about intellectual property and how you handle something like that, because psychedelic compounds don't sort of fit comfortably into that compound, if you will, because a lot of them are natural. They can't really be patented, if you will. So how do you deal with that? And to what extent is your medicine, you know, hold patents or have intellectual property?
- [64:42]
Kabir Nath
So our medicine comp360 is a fully synthetic formulation of psilocybin. We have polyformorph patents that address that. And therefore we have robust protection till 2038 with the potential for extension around that, because, again, we went for a fully synthetic modern medicine.
- [65:00]
Tim Stanovec
Have you talked directly with the Health and Human Secretary, Robert F. Kennedy?
- [65:08]
Kabir Nath
We are focused on an excellent relationship with the psychiatry division of the fda. We've been working with the same folks for seven years.
- [65:15]
Tim Stanovec
He has certainly made some commentary around this that has given, you know, hopes and expectations that this would move along more rapidly.
- [65:22]
Kabir Nath
We're happy that there are senior figures in the administration who believe, like us, in the potential for psychedelic therapy. But we're really focused on delivering the right efficacy and safety through our studies and working directly with the division that's going to approve us.
- [65:36]
Tim Stanovec
So trial three, third phase, next year, early next year, give us an idea of a timeline. I mean, when might we see something like this come to market?
- [65:46]
Kabir Nath
We will get the primary data, as I said, in first quarter of next year.
- [65:50]
Tim Stanovec
Right.
- [65:50]
Kabir Nath
We will need to submit some more data later in the year, but we are looking forward to being in a position to complete a submission to the FDA in the latter part of next year and then we'll work with them as expeditionary as possible on a potential regulatory approval.
- [66:04]
Tim Stanovec
So 2026, 2027, like what's. I know this stuff all takes long and I know we constantly am asking you, but I think, I think because it's been so much out there for a while, a decade and then some. Right. I think we're all trying to certainly for an investing audience, understand when this actually hits, hits the market.
- [66:22]
Kabir Nath
We are preparing to be ready for a commercial launch from the end of 2026.
- [66:27]
Tim Stanovec
Oh, he said it. Well, thank you. What is something like this? Yeah, what is something like this? Cost? That's the question.
- [66:34]
Kabir Nath
So it's premature to discuss the pricing for this at the moment. First, we actually still need to see some of the longer term results from our studies.
- [66:41]
Tim Stanovec
Right.
- [66:41]
Kabir Nath
In particular, we need to see over the course of the first six months what the potential for a second dose is and really therefore how many potential sessions that a patient may need to have in a given year.
- [66:52]
Tim Stanovec
That's a great question because you're talking sessions. So this is not a drug that someone would continue to take or a lifelong sort of drug, if you will.
- [67:02]
Kabir Nath
Absolutely. And it's a really important point there. What we have shown in our study so far is that a single session can produce a dramatic response that lasts for six weeks. Today, either it's a daily oral or there is a product, esketamine, which you will need to take maybe 30 to 50 times a year. What we are showing is truly transformative, therefore, for these patients with this infrequent session.
- [67:28]
Tim Stanovec
We're talking with Kabir Nath. He's chief executive officer of Compass pathways, ticker is CNP's. He's here in our Bloomberg studio, Bloomberg headquarters. Kabir, one of the things I think about then is if all goes as you anticipate and you've talked about the market for like who this is for specifically, then do you move on to other uses and other treatments, whether it's ptsd, whether it's drug addiction. Like, I'm just curious how far you can go with this.
- [67:56]
Kabir Nath
Yes. Thank you, Carol. And we are designing, have in fact already designed and finalized the design of a study in PTSD. PTSD affects 13 million people in America. And while there's this view that it's prevalent among veterans and so on, it absolutely is. That's actually only around 15% of that population.
- [68:16]
Tim Stanovec
Only 15%.
- [68:17]
Kabir Nath
15%. Actually 60% of people suffering with PTSD are women. And so this is a very large population. The only two drugs, medicines approved for PTSD were approved in the last century. So this we could use something new, something different. And so we are very excited about that. We have designed a study and that we will be kicking that off next year.
- [68:39]
Tim Stanovec
I want to go back to the question of price.
- [68:41]
Carol Massar
Sure.
- [68:42]
Tim Stanovec
What about insurance and how does that play a part in all of this?
- [68:47]
Kabir Nath
From the get go, Compass was set up in order to ensure broad and equitable access for patients. And that means the ability to work with insurers, both commercial and government. With the data we've already shown, as I say, a single administration producing statistically significant result reductions in depressive symptoms after six weeks. We've already started to demonstrate the value that this can bring to the healthcare system. Patients living with persistent depression frequently end up in the emergency room. They sometimes have inpatient psychiatric care. There are direct costs to health care systems. And we have already started to demonstrate the value.
- [69:24]
Tim Stanovec
You know, and forgive us, Kabir, we do keep going back to. I know you can't talk about price or your guys are figuring that out, but we kicked off saying, according to our Bloomberg intelligence team, that this market psychedelic drug development could grow to $7 billion in sales by 2032. How much of that do you think is or how much of that market size do you think you could get? And I'm just trying to. I'm curious.
- [69:49]
Kabir Nath
So we have the potential to be ahead of other companies in this market by two to three years. And we're excited about the opportunity to treat lots of patients. So for us, this is about the ability to make inroads into those 3 million patients that need a new treatment option. The only medicine that's actually approved and is being really promoted for this population today is treating maybe 70 to 100,000 patients over that population of 3 million.
- [70:17]
Tim Stanovec
Right.
- [70:18]
Kabir Nath
So what we're excited about is the ability to bring this new medicine to those patients.
- [70:22]
Tim Stanovec
Is it a billion dollar drug? Would you anticipate?
- [70:26]
Kabir Nath
We would hope that if we can successfully treat.
- [70:32]
Chris Anthony
Large number of patients well.
- [70:34]
Tim Stanovec
Especially if you get and you expand out, you go for other uses.
- [70:38]
Carol Massar
Yeah.
- [70:38]
Tim Stanovec
Do you go alone?
- [70:39]
Kabir Nath
That's our intention. We've always said clearly that we believe that we can do this on our own in the US Market and that's our intention.
- [70:45]
Tim Stanovec
All right. What about side effects? I mean, folks are listening to this.
- [70:47]
Zach Wasserman
A lot of folks are hoping that.
- [70:49]
Tim Stanovec
This is all going to work and come to market sooner rather than later. What are some of the side effects though?
- [70:54]
Kabir Nath
So on the day of dosing there's some headache, some nausea and that passes by the second day at most because this is a day in a treatment center. We have a fully independent group of scientists and clinicians that reviews all our safety data on a regular basis. They have access to data from all arms of our studies and they have seen no unexpected or concerning side effects that have caused them to alter the course of the study in any way.
- [71:21]
Tim Stanovec
And just remind everybody. And we just got about 40 seconds, Kabir. Right when it is given to a patient, there are folks around to really watch the process, make sure things go. You're not taking this in your bathroom by yourself.
- [71:35]
Kabir Nath
This is very much delivered in a safe environment, in a medical environment with somebody in the room who is medically trained, who's there just to assure patient safety and comfort.
- [71:44]
Tim Stanovec
Do you see the finish line?
- [71:46]
Kabir Nath
I absolutely do and we're excited about that potential.
- [71:49]
Tim Stanovec
I just think how long we've been reporting on it and talking about it. It's really fun to kind of of be on this journey somewhat with you. I'm just wondering quickly, regulatory hurdles in 2026, do you think that it is going to be a more friendly regulatory.
- [72:00]
Kabir Nath
Environment with the psychiatry division? We have an excellent relationship and that's been consistent over six, seven years and we expect that to.
- [72:09]
Tim Stanovec
Sounds like you've been talking to them for a long, long time. Kabir. Thank you. Nice to have you in studio. Kabir Nath, he's chief executive officer of Compass Pathways, joining us right here.
- [72:21]
Stuart Paul
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Stuart Paul
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Tim Stanovec
There we go.
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Stuart Paul
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- [75:33]
Tim Stanovec
Over the next couple of decades, an estimated $90 trillion in assets will be passed down from the silent generation and baby boomers to their Gen X and millennial heirs. But this so called great wealth transfer has a confounding corollary. Our parents haven't just been accumulating money, they've also been accumulating stuff. So much stuff. So writes Bloomberg Pursuits Editor at large Chris Rouser.
- [75:56]
Carol Massar
With us on tips on what to keep, sell and donate, and just the concept in general, the history of it, why as Americans and when we started collecting so much stuff is Chris Rouser. Chris's story is the Pursuits cover story of the December issue of BusinessWeek magazine. It's available now online on the terminal and on newsstand. I kind of want to start with PEZ dispensers, because that's how you start the piece. This was a great piece, Chris. It's not just for people who have elderly people in their lives with a lot of stuff. It's also, if you have a lot of stuff in your life, you can take a lot away because there's a lot tied up in physical things, memories, just feelings, holding onto things, history, fear, losing stuff. It's really complicated.
- [76:43]
Chris Rouser
It's very complicated, complicated. So starting with pez, which is a great. Which is a great place to start. Nick Malice is a comedy writer in LA who I encountered while reporting for this story. And his mom had these two great big lofts in SoHo in New York. Sounds very glam, but they were filled with stuff. And it was a range of stuff that was like a little junkie. Like she would pick up, you know, shelves from the street and bring them into her apartment and then fill them with stuff. But a lot of that stuff was really good. Like, she was an avid collector. She had, like, partied with Andy Warhol. She had some really good pop art. And Nick had to go through these two apartments that were jammed to the ceilings. And it took him years. And he found throughout all of his exploration and dealing with it, 10,000 Pez dispensers.
- [77:32]
Will Wade
Oh, my God.
- [77:33]
Chris Rouser
You think that, like, your parents have a lot of stuff. His mom had a ton of stuff and he. It was very difficult to deal with. As I said, it took years. But throughout the process, and he found that it actually brought him closer to her going through all of her stuff and taking the time and learning about what she cared about and all the cool stuff that she left to him as his inheritance. So I went into this story thinking, all right, this is a problem that, like, we're all annoyed about, like both our parents, generations, my generation, generations below. But also there's like, there can be some upsides and there can be some beauty to it. So let's go in with a positive attitude.
- [78:06]
Tim Stanovec
Well, I love what he said, that in going through it, I'm sure he was incredibly overwhelmed at the beginning. Right. But then understanding, like, as he went through them, like, he got a better feeling about his mom.
- [78:16]
Will Wade
Yeah.
- [78:16]
Tim Stanovec
And who she was.
- [78:17]
Chris Rouser
And the key thing that Nick did, which everyone should consider doing, is he got help. He got his friends to come in and help. He paid people to come in and. And sort the PEZ dispensers. He got someone from Antiques Roadshow to look at the really good stuff. There's different tiers of help. You can get an organizer to come in and do everything. You can get a junk company to come and get rid of everything. Or you can go through stuff if you really want to and sort of set it up into different categories, like valuable, not valuable, whatever. But a key thing is help.
- [78:46]
Tim Stanovec
I have to say, like, both my parents have passed away, and I remember my mom was quite the collector. And it was Hummels, it was Gompere, it was Delft. It was a lot of stuff.
- [78:54]
Chris Rouser
Hummels are a classic.
- [78:56]
Tim Stanovec
Hummels are a classic. And I just remember going through stuff, and there was a point where we got so tired of going through stuff. Like, we were just putting stuff out on the curb. And in the process, we threw out a clock that was actually pretty valuable, but we just were just so overwhelmed. So how do we kind of go, like, talk to us a little bit about the experts that are out there that help us with this process to figure out what's valuable. What do you keep? What do you pass on? What do you throw out?
- [79:18]
Chris Rouser
Yes. So there is a whole cottage industry that's set up to deal with. Exactly. With this. Some people call it generational decluttering, which is not only when people are passing stuff down to the next generation, but maybe they're just downsizing because they retired. They don't need so much space, and they don't know what to do. So you can get an organizer who will really help you go through everything. They'll give you organizational tools, which we all need. They'll help you digitize photos. They have all these tools that, like, you don't even think about that will. That will shrink the stuff that's in your house, and they'll get the stuff out of your house. And these are people who are practiced at it. They're emotionally sensitive. I talked to some really cool people who are really thoughtful, and it's hard to get stuff out of the house. You know, people you know, our parents, their parents were depression era. So they wanted to hold on to stuff. They wanted to hold on to paper records.
- [80:07]
Tim Stanovec
Go into that, Chris. Because I think, I think about like, why the heck do I. I've actually talked about this with my therapist. Like why do I have to hold on to so much stuff?
- [80:14]
Stuart Paul
Yeah.
- [80:14]
Tim Stanovec
Like even after my parents are passed, like it's like these aren't them anymore. But it's like silly things like even seeing their handwriting. Like why. But what is it about that we got to this point?
- [80:23]
Chris Rouser
It's a lot of things. So like I said, our parents grew up with depression era parents. If you're like aging millennial, Gen X, you grew up in a house where like people saved stuff against maybe future emergencies. Like maybe your parents had nine flashlights in a drawer. Cause like you never know when you're gonna need it. Anyone younger than us, younger than 35 grew up with Amazon. So they are, you know, and they grew up with the Internet. So they are. Everything is immediately available. Things are not as high quality as they were. Like products, home products especially as they used to be or as beautiful from like the early 20th century. So they don't have that association of this is nice. We should keep it. Whereas our parents and even us, like, it's hard for me to get rid of books. I feel like books should have a future.
- [81:06]
Kabir Nath
Yeah.
- [81:06]
Tim Stanovec
Have you seen my desk? I can't get rid of books.
- [81:09]
Carol Massar
I've changed my thoughts completely on books.
- [81:11]
Tim Stanovec
I know you have.
- [81:12]
Carol Massar
You gotta get rid of books. Everything's on my Kindle. It's just we live in New York City. There's none enough room for books. Do it all on your Kindle and.
- [81:18]
Chris Anthony
Be done with it.
- [81:19]
Kabir Nath
Yeah.
- [81:19]
Carol Massar
I mean, and I know that's very close to.
- [81:23]
Tim Stanovec
Can I just say though, I thought it was interesting. I just was like the China collection and then the china cupboards. I remember my grandmother like a massive. And then my mom had them and it's like I have little ones. But it's like getting away from that that you had these things, then you displayed them.
- [81:37]
Chris Rouser
Yes. And that is a, that's a thing. When the middle class in America was born and, and like starting in the mid 19th century, that when we started having factories and middle managers and all these people going in through the beginning of the 20th century, that's when Tiffany started making silver. That's when people could afford. It was either before that it was either like extremely rich people or like working class.
- [81:57]
Tim Stanovec
Right.
- [81:57]
Chris Rouser
And then there were like, oh, mass produced things could be actually beautiful and we could own a lot of them and we should display them to show like where we have reached as a family. And then that created this like snowball of like we should show our China. We should have fine silver that we don't use that got us where we are today.
- [82:15]
Carol Massar
I love the dive into the industrial revolution in this piece and really what brought the American middle class and our obsession or fascination with stuff. What I also love about the piece, Chris, is it required some self reflection from you and also some anecdotes from you about this happening while you were essentially thinking about this piece. Talk to us about your dad's gun collection.
- [82:35]
Chris Rouser
So my dad's gun collection was the reason why I thought of this piece actually. My dad had. Has something like 70 guns. He, he'd been collecting since he was a kid. So some of them were historical, some of them had a lot of emotional resonance. And he has a room in his house that we call the second Amendment room, which is full of guns. And my brother and I live in the city, in New York City. We don't want a lot of guns around.
- [82:57]
Carol Massar
Well, guns are not. There are certain guns. It's very hard to legally have a gun in New York City.
- [83:01]
Chris Rouser
Yeah. And also a lot of them were hunting rifles and I don't hunt a lot.
- [83:06]
Carol Massar
Shocking.
- [83:06]
Chris Rouser
So my dad decided, he was like, you know what? I don't. I'm mostly just cleaning these. Like I don't really use a lot of them that much. And it's time for me to get rid of them so my kids don't have to like deal with it. So he, he, I was so proud of him. He photographed all of them. He made like a PDF. He put out an RFP to deal to dealers to be like, who can. Who will give us me the best offer on this? All throughout New England. He lives in Maine. And then a guy at the Kittery Trading Post in southern Maine was like, this is my offer. And my dad said that's great. And he asked my brother and my step siblings which guns we wanted. And then he just sold all the rest of them to guy at the Kittery Trading Post. And I was like, this is amazing. I love this. And so I told my mom and she was like, wow, that's awesome. What about all the wooden mallards?
- [83:50]
Tim Stanovec
What's the market that your dagger collected or.
- [83:52]
Stuart Paul
Yeah, that my dad.
- [83:53]
Carol Massar
What's the market? What's the market for wooden mallards?
- [83:55]
Chris Rouser
So there is a market for wooden mallards and there are markets for all These things, you think no one wants just silver and you think no one wants china and that's like, and brown furniture and that's sort of true. But like the, the elite stuff, the best stuff, actually there is still a market for it. So like you can, you can go through and find the people that want the wooden mallards. And I thought, okay, this is, this is something I got to do a story.
- [84:14]
Tim Stanovec
Oh my God. I just, I love it. I love it. I think it resonates for, for so many of us. Well, I'm just gonna say if you go through stuff, you might be able to pass it off as gifts this holiday season.
- [84:24]
Kabir Nath
Yeah.
- [84:25]
Tim Stanovec
Or if not actually in our family we have sometimes done that, like passed down.
- [84:29]
Carol Massar
Does anyone in your family have a watch collection?
- [84:32]
Stuart Paul
I have a little bit of a watch collection. Oh, okay.
- [84:35]
Carol Massar
Well, that's a perfect segue.
- [84:36]
Tim Stanovec
So tell us about. You actually give us a gift guide for every specific person in your life when it comes to watches, which is.
- [84:43]
Carol Massar
A great way to organize it because it's not like, okay, these are the best watches for under $300. These are the best watches just for under a thousand. These are the best watches that are a hundred thousand dollars. This is the best watch for this person in your life. I love that.
- [84:54]
Tim Stanovec
Yeah.
- [84:55]
Chris Rouser
Yeah, thanks. Yeah. You know, normally I do the price point gift guides. This year I was like, I'm going to actually go through specific situations that people have already come to me to ask for a gift or for a watch for themselves. My nephew recently asked. He wants a, like a steel watch to take on job interviews because he's, he's going to graduate college. So I recommended a Tissot, which is a very reasonable, reasonably priced brand. Really good Swiss watches. A lot of people ask me, they're like, I'm buying my first serious watch and I, I send them to a multi brand store where they can look at a lot of different watches. They always come back either with a Rolex or an IWC. So I recommend some IWCs. One of my friends is, got a new finance job and he, I love this one. Everyone in my office wears a different watch every day.
- [85:37]
Carol Massar
Of course.
- [85:38]
Chris Rouser
And I was like, I want to work in that office.
- [85:41]
Tim Stanovec
Do you not have a watch to wear every day different?
- [85:44]
Chris Rouser
I'm wearing two watches.
- [85:45]
Tim Stanovec
That's what I'm saying. I'm thinking you, you're on it. The nonprofit lawyer. Can I just say, for a nonprofit lawyer, I was curious about like what you were going to come up with. I was not expecting a $4,000.
- [85:56]
Carol Massar
Still a lawyer. Still a lawyer.
- [85:58]
Tim Stanovec
That's true.
- [85:58]
Chris Rouser
This, it's funny, we actually went through and Felix on My team asked ChatGPT for the same recommendations and ChatGPT came up. I think it must have scraped the story because although we don't let people scrape our stuff, but because it came up with a lot of the same recommendations and for the nonprofit lawyer one, it came up with the exact same brand, Nomos Glashuta, which is very, it's like pretty obscure. I was like, chatgpt, you've been listening. But this is my, my friend is an immigration lawyer in Chicago, an incredible, incredible person. And he was like, I want a grown up watch that to like celebrate my milestones and my marriage. But I like can't be like a crazy rich person much. And Nomos is I love this watch. Yeah, I love it.
- [86:38]
Tim Stanovec
It's really beautiful. But for all you guys out there, if you're looking to get something for the woman who wants an understated classic.
- [86:45]
Carol Massar
Cartier, that tank watch. It's always the tank.
- [86:47]
Tim Stanovec
It's always the tank watch.
- [86:48]
Chris Rouser
It really is.
- [86:49]
Tim Stanovec
All right, do we have to go?
- [86:50]
Carol Massar
We have to go.
- [86:50]
Tim Stanovec
Chris Rouser, Never enough time. Thank you so much. Happy holidays. So glad we could do this.
- [86:55]
Chris Rouser
Thanks.
- [86:55]
Carol Massar
Listen, how did you describe the Cartier tank?
- [86:58]
Chris Rouser
Oh, I said if you're buying a woman an expensive watch and you're not considering a Cartier, you're a lunatic.
- [87:04]
Carol Massar
There we go.
- [87:05]
Tim Stanovec
Amen. Amen.
- [87:07]
Carol Massar
Chris Rouser, Bloomberg Pursuits Editor at large.
- [87:09]
Tim Stanovec
And that wraps up our weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. Thank you so much for joining us.
- [87:14]
Carol Massar
I'm Tim Stanweck.
- [87:15]
Tim Stanovec
And I'm Carol Massar. Have a good and safe weekend. Maybe clean out some stuff. Just recommending.
- [87:20]
Stuart Paul
This is the Bloomberg businessweek daily podcast, available on Apple, Spotify and anywhere else you get your podcast. Listen live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5pm Eastern on Bloomberg.com, the iHeartRadio app, TuneIn and the Bloomberg Business app. You can also watch us live Every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg terminal.
- [87:50]
Tim Stanovec
At Hill's Pet Nutrition, we know that pet parent guilt is real. Leaving too long, playing too little. New homes, new babies, waking them up when they look so comfy. Running out of patience, running out of treats, running the vacuum. You can only do so much. That's why there's hills. Science led nutrition to help you give.
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Tim Stanovec
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Chris Anthony
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Tim Stanovec
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- [89:59]
Steve Moore
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Stuart Paul
Reviews performed by Ed Helms Tonight's Tactical Jacket I was living a simple life.
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Chris Anthony
Didn't get out much.
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Stuart Paul
Then I bought this jacket and everything changed. Women came flocking to me from lands domestic and foreign.
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Steve Moore
On the 245 day sailboat voyage home.
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Stuart Paul
I was attacked by a shark.
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Will Wade
I knew it was the jacket.
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Stuart Paul
He was after giving up the jacket in exchange for my life. 5 stars Amazon Customer 69 Shop the.
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Steve Moore
Perfect gift this holiday on Amazon.