Loading summary
Transcript333 lines
- [00:02]
Tim Stanwick
When patients have a disease and the cause is known, it usually ends up.
- [00:06]
Max Chaffkin
Needing a specific solution.
- [00:09]
Tim Stanwick
On the podcast targeting the toughest diseases, we explore the innovative tools, methods and unique philosophy Vertex Pharmaceuticals is using to search for treatments for some of humanity's most challenging diseases. Subscribe today wherever you listen to podcasts.
- [00:35]
John Levy
So you're telling me that the AI.
- [00:37]
Tim Stanwick
That'S meant to make everyone's job easier to manage just adds more to manage?
- [00:41]
John Levy
On top of the thousands of apps the IT department already manages? Funny how that works. Any business can add AI. IBM helps you scale and manage AI.
- [00:52]
Tim Stanwick
To change how you do business.
- [00:55]
John Levy
Let's create Smile to Business. IBM.
- [01:02]
Tim Stanwick
Enterprise leaders are revolutionizing their marketing operations with AWS AI. This proven technology turns resource intensive advertising processes into intelligent autonomous systems that deliver real time optimization on a global scale. Amazon's own transformation journey shows the true power of enterprise AI innovation. And now your organization can tap into the same technology that drives Amazon's advertising success. AWS AI Where Advertising Meets Intelligence Discover the Amazon ad story@aws.comai our-story if a.
- [01:38]
John Levy
Lenovo computer for your business is on your holiday list, don't shop around. Just go directly to the source lenovo.com it's your last chance to get exclusive deals on the PCs you want for your business, like the ThinkPad X914, Aura Edition and Yoga 7i 2in1. So avoid all that shopping chaos and price comparing and just go directly to the source Lenovo.com, where PCs are up to 35% off. That's Lenovo.com Lenovo Lenovo.
- [02:11]
Carol Massar
Bloomberg Audio Studios Podcasts Radio News this.
- [02:17]
Tim Stanwick
Is Bloomberg businessweek Daily reporting from the magazine that helps global leaders stay ahead with insight on the people, companies and trends shaping today's complex economy. Plus global business, finance and tech news as it happens. The Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast with Carol Massar and Tim Stanweck on Bloomberg Radio.
- [02:40]
Carol Massar
Hi everyone. Welcome to the Bloomberg businessweek Weekend Podcast. Happy holidays, everyone. And with the year nearly over, we think it's time for reflection and anticipation. In this hour, we sit down with the editor of Bloomberg Businessweek magazine to lay out what 2026 could have in store. From big ideas to looming risks.
- [02:59]
Tim Stanwick
Plus a guide to the best places to travel in 2026. Because yes, it's kind of a flex.
- [03:05]
Carol Massar
Yeah, you need to start planning early. Yeah, like I'm going so and so in like 20 months is like right around the corner.
- [03:10]
Tim Stanwick
So it is. All right, we're going to wrap up too, with a look back at the year that was for one of the most unpredictable figures in business, tech and politics, we're talking about Elon.
- [03:19]
Carol Massar
And in the spirit of the holiday season, amid taking time off while playing in the snow or basking in the sun and spending time with friends, you may also find yourself with time on your hands. So with that in mind, in our second hour, we're going to lay out some of our team's winter reading list, courtesy of authors and books featured on Bloomberg businessweek from the last six months, everything from regulating digital empires to what it means to unlock collective genius and to the CEO of Jamba Juice with tips on how he built an organization with purpose.
- [03:50]
Tim Stanwick
All of that ahead. First, though, 2025, I am having trouble believing this year is even over and also having trouble believing all that's happened, the ups, the downs, no doubt it's been a long year and one that's gone by, I think, for a lot of people, too, really fast.
- [04:05]
Carol Massar
Yeah, no doubt. Covering it all the major themes, players from Wall street to Main street to Washington and more, is Bloomberg businessweek magazine. Brad Stone is the editor of Bloomberg Businessweek magazine. He joined Bloomberg's Alexis Christophorus and me on the year that was and what to expect in 2026.
- [04:23]
Brad Stone
I'll start with the principle, which is that we are in the business of covering the icons in business, politics and culture, the companies that are transforming the world and the technologies and the trends that are changing our lives. And so when we look back at the year and we look back at, so the December issue, Keisha Steelman from Ulta Beauty, the package on the beauty industry Gap, Richard Dixon, the turnaround at The Gap, Doug McMillan, Walmart.
- [04:51]
John Levy
Okay.
- [04:51]
Brad Stone
These are, these are classic Business Week stories, corporate profiles, narratives of companies coming back from the brink.
- [04:58]
Carol Massar
We have actually, you know, a shot at some of your covers. You mentioned ulta, I mean, Gavin Newsom.
- [05:03]
Brad Stone
Well, let me be more specific about this year, though.
- [05:05]
Nikki Eckstein
Okay.
- [05:06]
James D. White
Okay.
- [05:06]
Brad Stone
Because I think this year there were two stories that really impacted all of us and are transforming the world in front of our eyes. And one is AI, right. And the massive bet on data centers and GPUs and the way that it's transforming companies. And so we put Sam Altman on the COVID in February. We have China's AI the issue in June. But then the other story is clearly, and maybe this is the biggest one is Donald Trump and what has really been the pursuit of kind of an executive presidency, the accumulation of power. And so Scott Besant on the COVID in September, Elon and Doge on the COVID in August, Trump's trade war after Liberation Day in May. I mean, these are all ways we tried to cover that story. And, you know, it's massive. It's still developing. But it's not just the covers. It's in the issues every month. And we're trying to tell the story about a destruction of norms in Washington D.C. that's radiating out into the business world and across all our lives.
- [06:16]
Carol Massar
I'm curious if there was one story.
- [06:18]
Nikki Eckstein
And I know this is a lot right.
- [06:19]
Carol Massar
Coming, because you're looking at the whole year in review really, but was there.
- [06:21]
Nikki Eckstein
One story that particularly resonated with readers this year?
- [06:25]
Brad Stone
Okay. Well, it's funny, Alexis, because after having laid out all these serious topics, I'll give you one that pops right to mind, which is we did the story about Doodles and the Doodle industrial complex, these dogs, and how Doodle owners are battling with like the purebred. Is it the purebred association? I can't quite remember, but this whole.
- [06:47]
Carol Massar
Like the, the AKC or something.
- [06:48]
Brad Stone
Something like that. And this battle over this, you know, ridiculous but adorably cute Muppet dog breed. And that, of course, went well. Gangbusters getting between people and their dogs. Exactly. You know, more seriously, we wrote the first profile of Russell Vogt, the head of the Office of Management and Budget, the real spiritual leader behind Doge the Not Elon Musk, the account of, you know, his blueprint project 2025. This is a Max Chaff can story and how it was transforming everything from, you know, USAID to the whole federal bureaucracy. And so those kinds of stories, when we were early on, this accumulation of an imperial presidency of power by Trump, that's where I think we really connected with, with our readers.
- [07:35]
Carol Massar
You know, as someone who talks, you know, you think about kind of how this presidency was going to play out and how you wanted to cover it. I mean, were you anticipating all the twists and turns? I mean, we had kind of a first version in his first term, but this has been a very different second term.
- [07:51]
Brad Stone
I mean, I don't, I don't know that anybody anticipated it. And look, you know, it's. No one has a crystal ball. I think that after Liberation Day, a lot of people automatically assumed that it could push the economy into recession and really hit consumer spending. What we see today is a very complex picture. People talk about the K shaped economy. It seems like part of this economy is doing very well. Black Friday Cyber Monday. Shopping was strong. Consumer sentiment is good. But then there's another side of this economy where people are suffering and affordability is the, is the, is the word of the day. When we put Gavin Newsom on the COVID in November, you know, he's hitting some of those notes. Gavin. It was not a story about 2028. It was a story about today. And he's managed to finally articulate for the Democratic Party a path forward and articulate an argument against the current administration. And so, yeah, we're trying to tell, examine all dimensions. And, you know, and I wrote a story in that issue about how California is a bit of a handicap right now. It's not an economic success story. So we try to interrogate all sides of the, the political divide.
- [08:57]
Nikki Eckstein
I do want to give a shout.
- [08:58]
Carol Massar
Out, though, to a cover story in January. So going way back to the beginning.
- [09:03]
Nikki Eckstein
Of the year, the Human Egg, which was an amazing investigative piece that actually.
- [09:08]
Carol Massar
Won a Loeb Award.
- [09:09]
Brad Stone
Right.
- [09:10]
Nikki Eckstein
So I was wondering if that was.
- [09:12]
Carol Massar
One that particularly connected with folks.
- [09:15]
Brad Stone
I mean, I love when BusinessWeek becomes the home for the most ambitious journalistic work inside the Bloomberg newsroom. And this came from our investigations team. It is a global investigation and how women are sometimes coerced into donating their eggs or sometimes in economic positions where they feel like they have to, and a whole industry that is, in some cases deceiving them and in some cases harming their, their harming the donors. And it was sweeping. I mean, from. From China to India to the United States, truly global. And we, we tracked, in some cases, our reporters traveled with these shipments of donated eggs. And yeah, it was wonderful. It did resonate with readers, and it's just the beginning of the kinds of journalism that we're doing.
- [10:01]
Carol Massar
How do you think about 2026, especially as we get ready for midterms? And I think about how much you guys have spent focusing on politics. It makes sense.
- [10:08]
Tim Stanwick
But how are you.
- [10:09]
Carol Massar
How are you beginning to think about.
- [10:10]
Brad Stone
Well, I mean, I go back to, I think, our, our, our principals, which is iconic leaders in business culture and, and politics. You know, we're a business magazine, so there's a lot of business leaders and a lot of companies that I'm curious about. I think we've only begun to explore that. The, the China story, the transformation of the international dynamic with the withdrawal of the United States and a lot of important, you know, ally alliances, climate change, the role that China will now take as it is increasingly assertive. That's a topic that interests me. I mean, obviously, you know, the midterms. But I think like we did with Scott Bessant, like we did with Gavin Newsom. We find, you know, we interviewed Donald Trump during the campaign, did a cover story on Kamala Harris during the campaign. We find our opportunities and those characters that always feel larger than life and also, you know, impacting the business story. Right. And who, you know, who are telling an economic story that is interesting to our readers.
- [11:17]
Carol Massar
I just.
- [11:17]
Nikki Eckstein
We have to get in the jealousy list because I love that you do this too.
- [11:20]
Carol Massar
It's the best journalism in your eyes.
- [11:22]
Nikki Eckstein
Or the Business week's Eyes of 2025. But it's nothing we wrote.
- [11:26]
Brad Stone
Right.
- [11:27]
Carol Massar
Which I think is really cool. There was one thing on the jealousy list that resonated with me.
- [11:31]
Nikki Eckstein
It was the spritzes and carbonaras that ate Italy and how tourism, I think.
- [11:36]
Carol Massar
Was a New York Times article.
- [11:38]
Nikki Eckstein
Tourism has turned some Italian streets into monochromatic eating zones.
- [11:41]
Carol Massar
They're actually stuck stopping new restaurants from.
- [11:44]
Nikki Eckstein
Opening up in some parts of Italy now. Can you believe it?
- [11:46]
Brad Stone
I mean, I love the jealousy list. I basically send out an email to all of our contributors in the newsroom, and I say, you know what? What did our competitors do that you were a little jealous of over the last 12 months? And we get stories and some podcasts. In one case, we even got a series of tweets from Derek Guy, the fashion influencer. Yeah, I mean, it's just. And it turns out, I think a lot of people open that up and bookmark stories and, yeah, we're being a little, like, benevolent here with our attention and calling it. Calling attention to our competitors. But it's a ritual. We've done it, I think, seven or eight years in a row.
- [12:24]
Carol Massar
I love it. I've contributed to it. It's like, it's. It's a lot of fun. And I always feel like, what's it reminds me of? Like, these are a bunch of things I want to read. And then the same thing that BusinessWeek does throughout the year, whether it's movies, whether it's theater, you know, kind of the Pursuits group has done this, whether it's books to read. Like, you guys are always tapp. Tapping into all of this.
- [12:42]
Brad Stone
Yeah, well, you know, it's the curse of the journalists. Like, we have to pay attention to everything. We can't turn it off. We're news junkies. And so this is, I guess, a way of sharing the obsession.
- [12:53]
Carol Massar
Brad, you talked about the Doodle story and how much people responded to it. Is there any story, though, that you guys have put out where people, like, are really fighting back against it and.
- [13:02]
Brad Stone
Giving you Guys, that's a good question.
- [13:04]
Carol Massar
I just wonder, I mean, look, any.
- [13:06]
Brad Stone
Politics story that probably any media outlet, and Bloomberg is no exception, Right? You hear, you hear like we do not have a monolithic audience. You know, there are, there are plenty of our readers from all, both sides of the political aisle. And they tell you when you don't get it right. So I think, you know, we hear it, too. Yeah. From the, from our Gavin cover to our Scott Besant interview.
- [13:30]
Carol Massar
Yeah.
- [13:30]
Brad Stone
To our coverage of Doge and Elon Musk. You know, you hear it and something about the political discussion has shifted where, you know, they, if somebody doesn't like it, you don't get a, you know, disciplined, civilized letter to the editor. They tweet. They tweet something and they whip up, you know, and so, yeah, that, that certainly happened for a lot of what we write. And look, I mean, we wouldn't be doing our job if companies weren't regularly calling and lodging complaints of some kind. And I could list a couple, but maybe more, more polite to just leave it at that. But part of the job is you do get some pushback and people are.
- [14:05]
Carol Massar
Reading and you're getting it from all sides. Exactly. Great stuff. We love reading it. We love having everybody, all the members of your team and you stop by. So thank you so much.
- [14:13]
Brad Stone
Good luck.
- [14:13]
Carol Massar
I know it's not 2026.
- [14:16]
Brad Stone
Don't rush us.
- [14:17]
Carol Massar
It just feels like, you know, it's all of a sudden it's here.
- [14:20]
Nikki Eckstein
Can you tease the COVID for January?
- [14:22]
Brad Stone
You know, I will say, Alexis, that annually we do a Year Ahead issue in January. And so it's a guide. It's your map to 2026. And I've contributed a couple stories. The team has come together. So basically, how to stay sane next year. Look for that in the January issue.
- [14:39]
Nikki Eckstein
Getting my copy.
- [14:40]
Carol Massar
Good stuff as always. Thank you so much. Brad Stone, editor of Bloomberg businessweek, joining us right here in studio.
- [14:50]
Tim Stanwick
When patients have a disease and the cause is known, it usually ends up.
- [14:55]
Max Chaffkin
Needing a specific sol.
- [14:58]
Tim Stanwick
On the podcast targeting the toughest diseases, we explore the innovative tools, methods, and unique philosophy Vertex Pharmaceuticals is using to search for treatments for some of humanity's most challenging diseases. Subscribe today wherever you listen to podcasts.
- [15:20]
John Levy
If a Lenovo computer for your business is on your holiday list, don't shop around, just go directly to the source. Lenovo.com it's your last chance to get exclusive deals on the PCs you want for your business, like the ThinkPad X914 Aura Edition and Yoga 7i 2in1. So avoid all that shopping chaos and price comparing and just go directly to the source. Lenovo.com where PCs are up to 35% off. That's Lenovo.com Lenovo Lenovo. So you're telling me that the AI.
- [15:56]
Tim Stanwick
That'S meant to make everyone's job easier to manage just adds more to manage.
- [16:01]
John Levy
On top of the thousands of apps the IT department already manages? Funny how that works. Any business can add AI. IBM helps you scale and manage AI.
- [16:11]
Tim Stanwick
To change how you do business.
- [16:14]
John Levy
Let's create Smile to Business. IBM.
- [16:21]
Tim Stanwick
Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other. One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting. Before you know it, you are drowning in software instead of growing your business. This is where Odoo comes in. Odoo is the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all in one, fully integrated platform that handles everything CRM, accounting, inventory, E commerce, HR and more. No more app overload, no more juggling logins. Just one seamless system that makes work easier. And the best part? Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. It's built to grow with your business, whether you are just starting out or already scaling up. Plus it's easy to use, customizable and designed to streamline every process so you can focus on what really matters running your business. Thousands of businesses have made the switch, so why not you try Odoo for free@odoo.com that's O D O O.com youm're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5pm Eastern. Listen on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app or watch us live on YouTube.
- [17:36]
Carol Massar
What do Gabon, Almaty, Kazakhstan, San Francisco, Lima, Texas and Taipei all have in common? Hmm, that has me scratching my head. Well, I'll tell you what they have in common. They are all on Bloomberg Pursuits List of Where to go in 2026 the.
- [17:52]
Tim Stanwick
Bloomberg Pursuits 10th annual travel guide for the year ahead makes it easier than ever to cut through the noise and book your next vacation. The list of 25 destinations is quite the mix. Reinvigorated classics and under the radar gems, each brimming with new luxuries and creative energy and places that won't strain your wallet.
- [18:11]
Carol Massar
I'm ready. I'm ready.
- [18:11]
Tim Stanwick
Some of them you can definitely find a place to strain your wallet.
- [18:15]
Carol Massar
All right, with our deep dive on where to travel in 2026 in the new year is Bloomberg Pursuits global travel czar, Nikki Eckstein. Nikki, we always love this list. We always love talking about it with you. But first of all, remind us how this list gets put together, because the world is a pretty big place. I mean, it's a group effort.
- [18:32]
Nikki Eckstein
Oh, yeah, it takes a village. I say that creating this list each year is almost like having a child. I have two of them, so I don't take that lightly. But we do an all year round effort. Sometimes it takes multiple years for news to kind of bubble up in the way that we want in a particular place. So we're tracking places for a very long time all around the world. And as we see pockets of news, you know, hotel openings, museum expansions, airport expansions, new airports, new flights, what have you, we are looking at all of that news and more and kind of watching for little hot zones where a lot of things are going on all at once and making a place feel really magnetic at a particular moment in time. And then there's kind of intangibles where we just see that the culture is shifting in a particular way, the conversation is moving, and there's something in the zeitgeist that is homing in on particular parts of the world in ways that we can put our fingers on because we're watching this stuff day in and day out. But other people might not notice until they see it all over their Instagram feeds next year.
- [19:35]
Tim Stanwick
Well, let's start with one of those places that I was surprised to see on the list, and that's Gabon.
- [19:39]
Nikki Eckstein
Yeah, Gabon is really interesting. So this is a particularly interesting case because you can really point a finger at what, what is happening and why and how. And it really started in many ways with Jeff Bezos.
- [19:53]
Tim Stanwick
That's a surprising connection, right?
- [19:55]
Nikki Eckstein
Like, who saw that coming? But his Earth fund pledged some $30 million into conservation efforts across the country just a couple of years ago. And those efforts are really bearing fruit and helping turn them into robust wildlife tourism destinations, where, among other things, you can see gorillas in really small groups of people, much smaller even than in Rwanda, which is so known for its guerrilla tourism. And you can get these really, really intimate sightings. One of the things that's cool about Gabon is that the wildlife parks are right against the coast. And so you can stay in these beachside resorts and like, you're not fighting for lounge chairs with other people. The quote unquote people on the beach are hippos and elephants.
- [20:42]
Carol Massar
Okay, I love that. I so love that. Yeah, and it's, you know, I think about, like, you know, Africa in general and going on safaris and things like that have been around for a long time. But this just does feel like a much more intimate twist on all of that.
- [20:59]
Nikki Eckstein
Oh, yeah, you're not gonna run into another jeep for miles.
- [21:03]
Carol Massar
Hey, listen, one of the things. And when should we go? Because I think I just wanna point out that what's cool about this list now is.
- [21:10]
Tim Stanwick
Should we go now?
- [21:11]
Carol Massar
Yeah, I'm on it. Bags packed. You guys do different factors that kind of determine the experiences and when is the right place to go and when not to go. So when should we go to Gabon?
- [21:24]
Nikki Eckstein
You know, we try really hard to make this list very useful. A lot of our competitors in the travel space do really interesting lists that are meant to surprise you in so many ways. We do that, but we also try to make it really, really useful. And the way that we do that is exactly like you're saying. We're providing a ton of data. We have a partnership with Kayak. They supply US with 2.5 billion data points each year to get this project off the ground. And those data points power incredible charts that are interactive. You can select your closest airport and then get predictive price insights month by month to understand what flights and hotels will cost you to go to each of the 25 places that we're excited about this year. And then on top of that, we layer in expert insights from travel agents and operators that are real experts in these destinations. So for a place like Gabon, we can tell you very clearly that the summer months, our summer months, June, July, August are the best time to go because prices are favorable. But also that's when you're going to get the best wildlife sightings. It's the dry season, so you'll not only be able to see gorillas, but also migratory whales. On the coast, there's a national park where there are lots of mandrill monkeys and that's their mating season. So there's like all of these reasons why the summer months are really the best time.
- [22:44]
Carol Massar
I love, I love. Hey, listen, I always think about. People always talk about Greece. And when you haven't been to Greece, like me, they're like, what, you haven't been to Greece? But I always think about the Greek isles and you gu include on this list the Greek mountains.
- [22:57]
Nikki Eckstein
Wait, what? You haven't been to Greece?
- [22:59]
Carol Massar
I know.
- [22:59]
Tim Stanwick
See, I haven't either.
- [23:00]
Carol Massar
Well done.
- [23:01]
Tim Stanwick
My parents went there on their honeymoon. Yeah, this was like, you know, back before everyone was posting Greek Isles on Instagram many decades before that, apparently now.
- [23:10]
Carol Massar
We should go to the Greek mountains.
- [23:12]
Nikki Eckstein
Well, I do recommend that you go to the Greek islands at some point in your life, but I think that a mistake that people make is overly focusing on the Greek islands and a change in behavior is happening now where people are understanding that the Greek islands are very saturated, they're very expensive. Hotels are easily pushing $1,000 a night, if you can even get in. The ferries are. You know, there's difficulties with the ferries. There's always protests and strikes and there's weather concerns. There have been wildfires the last few years, very extreme temperatures. That doesn't make the Greek islands any less magical. They are a very, very special place. But people have understood that the headache that's associated with the Greek isles means that sometimes you need to pair them with another place that's a little less stressful. A really common solution to that, which is sometimes also just replacing the Greek Isles, is to go north to the mountains, where you can get a lot of the same cultural draws, a lot of the same food even, but with a much quieter, more countryside vibe. Small villages where the culture is really still a Greek, authentic experience. You're going to get farmers and cheese makers and very old monasteries and old stone buildings and just that kind of charm that in a lot of the islands has been eroded to kind of peddling to mass tourism.
- [24:36]
Tim Stanwick
Okay, so that's an area that is certainly on my list. I want to talk a little bit about budgets here. We mentioned that you can go on both ends of the budget extreme. So stuff that's affordable and stuff that many would classify as splurging. Let's start with the splurging side of things. If you look at this entire list of more than two dozen places, where do you go if you win the Powerball?
- [24:58]
Nikki Eckstein
Woo. That's a great question. So I would say my. My personal answer to that question is not borne out by the data that we're showing necessarily, but I would go to Rhode island in Indonesia, where a new hotel is soon to open called Niki wrote. Now, if you're a hotel nerd like I am, then Nikki has a strong connotation to you because about 15, almost 15 years ago, the entrepreneur Chris Burch and The hotelier James McBride became like overnight sensations in the luxury travel world by opening what soon became known as the most luxurious resort in the whole wide world. And it was called Nihi Watu. Now it's just called Nihi. They changed it. But this, this Indonesian private Island Resort has developed such a strong following. It really is known as one of the finest places you can stay. And for the first time, they're opening their. Their second hotel, a spin off to Nihim on a tiny island called Rote. And what's interesting about it is that they're also creating a big hospitality academy for locals there so that they can help Indonesians kind of capitalize on their own travel economy. It's a really interesting model. These are expensive hotels, but that's where I would go. The nice thing is that because that hotel isn't open yet, it's not reflected in Kayak's hotel data. And if you wanted to stay anywhere else, our price information shows that you can stay for as little as $116 a night in a luxury hotel.
- [26:30]
Carol Massar
I have to say, I would love to go to Tanzania's Spice Islands. That's my kind of favorite pick in this list. Having said that, I gotta go to the United States because there are a couple of places, Ozarks, which made me think of the streaming series, and then Charleston, South Carolina, which made me think of the reality show South Charm. But they are on your list as places that in the US that people might want to think about.
- [26:54]
Tim Stanwick
Top.
- [26:55]
Carol Massar
They're among your tops.
- [26:57]
Nikki Eckstein
Yeah, absolutely. So the Ozarks are really interesting. I think most people probably don't even know exactly where they are. They're in the South. There's a big kind of mountain range and connects numerous destinations that you probably do know about. There's Branson, Missouri on one side, and then Bentonville, Arkansas is on another side. And. And if you know anything about Bentonville, you know that it's the HQ for Walmart.
- [27:22]
Tim Stanwick
I thought you were gonna say it's the cycling capital of the country.
- [27:26]
Carol Massar
Oh, stop. Psychology.
- [27:28]
Tim Stanwick
It is. That's also true thanks to the Walton family that have, you know, they've actually just had a big race there.
- [27:35]
Nikki Eckstein
The Walton family has done so much for this part of the US and their biggest contribution, in my opinion, and probably in a lot of people's opinion, is the museum that they created in Bentonville called Crystal Bridges Museum of American Art. And it is truly one of the finest art institutions in the country, if not possibly the world, frankly. And they are. They're doing a massive, massive expansion of their gallery spaces. They're adding 114,000 square feet of exhibition space. And this is, like, really architecturally impressive gallery space. Like, we're not talking about, like, just boxy buildings. It's, like, beautiful. Like, you know, it's a Complex work worth seeing on its own. But it's also surrounded with like James Turrell exhibit installations, like those skyspace installations and trails of a hundred public artworks that you can go biking around. Plus there's like all these new hotels in the area that make it really, really quite fascinating culturally from an adventure standpoint, for a family standpoint, it's got everything.
- [28:39]
Carol Massar
I think Corsica now may be my favorite place on the list.
- [28:41]
Max Chaffkin
This list is.
- [28:42]
Tim Stanwick
So you change, you change your.
- [28:46]
Carol Massar
Oh, my God. There's like, it's really cool. It's really cool. We have to leave it there, unfortunately. But I do love how you say it's interactive. We highly recommend everybody head either to The Bloomberg or bloomberg.com, play around with it because, you know, you can select an origin. You can, you just kind of can play around with it and figure out the best time of the year to go. You know, the financial part and what it will cost is all part of it. It's very cool how you guys put this list together. Nikki, thank you so much. Happy holidays and happy almost a new year. Places to go. Happy travel, Happy travels. Love it. Take care, Nikki.
- [29:21]
Tim Stanwick
That's Nikki Eckstein, Bloomberg Pursuits, global travel czar. And be sure to check out the list@Bloomberg.com and of course on the Bloomberg terminal too.
- [29:29]
Carol Massar
Where would you go? Rocky Mountains were in there too, you know.
- [29:32]
Tim Stanwick
Well, Canada's Rocky Mountains still Rocky Mountains. Yeah. That's a great place I would go. I want to go to Kazakhstan.
- [29:39]
Carol Massar
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's right. It sounds like what.
- [29:42]
Tim Stanwick
And then you're like really cool. The scenery is just unbelievable.
- [29:45]
Carol Massar
The information in this list tells you why you really want to go there. And I love that they did the homework.
- [29:49]
Tim Stanwick
Since you and I started doing this together, Carol, what I've been to now I've been to zero of these places.
- [29:54]
Carol Massar
I feel too welcome to having kids. Hey. Still ahead on Bloomberg Business Week, we reflect on the year that was for the world's richest man, Elon. This is Bloomberg.
- [30:04]
Tim Stanwick
This is the Bloomberg Business Week daily podcast. Listen live each weekday starting at 2pm Eastern on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station. Just say Alexa, play Bloomberg 1130.
- [30:22]
Carol Massar
Let's now turn to someone who seemed to dominate the news cycle in 2025. Seemed to? Yeah, he totally dominates. Elon Musk wasn't just sending rockets to space and pushing Robo taxis forward. He began the year by plunging head first into politics, taking the advisory role in the Trump administration's Department of Government Efficiency, or Doge, where Musk and his team of Doziers helped. Is that what they call them? Do they call them Doziers?
- [30:46]
Max Chaffkin
Doge Kids.
- [30:47]
Carol Massar
Doge.
- [30:47]
Max Chaffkin
Doge Kids. That's Max, the scientific term.
- [30:50]
Tim Stanwick
He's going to.
- [30:50]
Max Chaffkin
Doge boys.
- [30:51]
Carol Massar
He's going to come in. In just a moment. All right. Well, they helped lead sweeping federal spending cuts and stirred controversy. Yeah, just a little bit. Over the reach of private power in US Government.
- [31:00]
Tim Stanwick
It was a time when you would often see Elon and sometimes his young son alongside President Trump in the Oval Office. Elon and the president both taking questions from reporters addressing U.S. government business. That was early on in the year.
- [31:12]
Carol Massar
Totally.
- [31:13]
Tim Stanwick
And then of course, there was Elon's black eye, seen around the world from the Oval Office. And later, the public fallout with President Trump. That still seems to exist on some level. It's kind of news when you see these two together now.
- [31:23]
Carol Massar
But the bromance, not what it was, it seems, although. So let's remember in November, Elon was actually back at a White House dinner for Mohammed bin Salman, mbs, Saudi Arabia's crown prince, along with other big tech bros. Remember those sneakers that Elon wore? They were all over social media.
- [31:38]
Tim Stanwick
All right, then that's Elon the person. Then there's also Elon's empire, the EV Company, the clean energy stuff. Tesla facing a backlash, protests tied to his ties to the White House and political moves.
- [31:50]
Carol Massar
And then there's SpaceX. It launched more Falcon rockets, had successful test flights of its Starship Mega rocket. The world's largest and most powerful shot more star satellites into space. And then in December, we all got the long awaited and anticipated news about a possible blockbuster IPO for Space X that could be the largest ever with a targeted valuation of about one and a half trillion. December 2nd, we saw Tesla hitting an all time high, its first in about a year. We had to talk about all of this. It's kind of our backdrop.
- [32:18]
Tim Stanwick
Max Chaffkin is Bloomberg Businessweek senior reporter. He's co host of the Everybody's Business podcast. He's the author of the Contrarian, Peter Thiel and Silicon Valley's Pursuit of Power. So, Max, when you think about the year that was for Elon Musk, I mean, I think about the politics of it, that's kind of my biggest takeaway is his closeness and then distance to the President.
- [32:40]
Max Chaffkin
Yeah, I mean, he was briefly probably the most powerful person in the US Government besides Donald Trump. I mean, he was at Trump's side pretty much continuously. Trump, Trump made Musk and this Doge effort and these young people that Elon Musk brought into government central to the beginning of his administration. It was a big part of this effort early on to kind of like flood the zone, which was a term you heard from Republican operatives. And that didn't last very long. But at the same time this year, Elon Musk also increased his net worth tremendously. He was briefly not the world's richest man, Larry Ellison, I can't remember.
- [33:22]
Tim Stanwick
Yeah, back in September, at least a couple of days.
- [33:25]
Max Chaffkin
And he got the Tesla board to give him a trillion dollar pay package. So he simultaneously was kind of at the seat of power and getting paid more money than anybody in history. I mean, of course those two things are related, but they're also complicated by the fact that, as you said to him, the relationship with Trump has been rocky.
- [33:44]
Carol Massar
You know, he was in the White House, but still also running a bunch of companies.
- [33:49]
Max Chaffkin
He was running five companies. And that created all sorts of interesting complications. And you kind of see both the way that Elon Musk leveraged his political power in the sort of asset prices of these stocks, right, where one of the reasons Tesla's value has gone up so much, and that's what has driven Elon Musk's net worth, is this belief that his proximity to Republicans will allow him to get concessions on policies for driverless cars. So driverless cars, of course, are not widely available. There are sort of different explanations for that. But if you're a Tesla bull, you think one of the explanations is regulatory and you believe that Elon Musk's proximity to power is going to facilitate that. And so we've seen, you know, a dramatic run up in the price of Tesla, driving up Elon Musk's net worth. Kind of similar dynamic with SpaceX, which of course is a government contractor. On the flip side, and in terms of consumers, Elon Musk's association with what is by now, you know, a pretty unpopular presidency has really hurt him. And you've sort of seen it in Tesla's sales, where Tesla's sales, he did have a decent quarter, right, as the EV tax credits expired. But overall, I mean, the sales have been really poor. You're really seeing a backlash. You're seeing a company that managed to alienate a pretty decent swath of its customer base. But for now, that doesn't matter because Tesla has sort of transcended into AI, into the AI firmament. And for whatever reason, Tesla has, has been able to kind of float above that. And I think some of that has to do with politics. Some of that has to do with Elon Musk's kind of unique relationship with his investor base and with his fan base. And yeah, it's just kind of the, the aura of Elon improbably continued this year despite all of the controversy and the black eye and all of that.
- [35:43]
Carol Massar
It makes me think that even with all of that and the, the volatility and the pushback maybe among consumers, still a good year.
- [35:49]
Max Chaffkin
I mean, if I told you that there were gonna be, that Elon Musk was gonna leave the White House having a huge Twitter war with Donald Trump where they'd be trading insults over Epstein, that he would have a literal black eye, that there would be reports in the New York Times which Elon Musk denied about his drug use. Yet you have the President of the United States commenting on those reports. You would say, like the Chief of.
- [36:10]
Tim Stanwick
Staff, Susie Wiles, it's been a terrible.
- [36:13]
Max Chaffkin
Year for Elon and yet this guy is, he is Teflon, right? There are things, reputational things that would hurt other people and that seem to hurt other business people that do not that where he is able to float above it. He has this very, like I said, a very unique relationship with his investors and with his fans. And I think that the truth of it is that Elon may say he's done with politics, he may wanna be done with politics, but he can't be done with politics because he is operating in businesses that are, are just very close to the, to the political heat. Right. Tesla is doing AI stuff. AI stuff, of course, is going to be subject to regulatory scrutiny. You have all this stuff with the AI tax credits. You have his, his rocket company, which depends on, on government contracts. Like all of this has politics baked into it. So he can't get away from politics if he wants to run his companies. This idea that he could step away from politics to run his business empire.
- [37:11]
Nikki Eckstein
Empire.
- [37:11]
Max Chaffkin
It almost doesn't make sense if you actually understand what his business empire is.
- [37:14]
Carol Massar
This is a great story in the Bloomberg Tesla's Musk Premium in Focus with the Space X IPO on the horizon. And it reminds us that the shares are up more than 100% since April 8, making it one of the best performers in the S&P 500 index. We won't talk about the valuation because that always freaks out everybody because it's pretty high. Having said that, I want to talk about its businesses because go back to Cathie Wood in The early days, who talked and was a big supporter, likened Elon to a Thomas Edison of our times. Is he Max, when it's Neuralink, it's AI, it's Grok, it's SpaceX, it's Starlink, there's a lot of stuff, boring company. I don't even know what's going on with that anymore. Is he still, though, kind of seen as a creative genius and moving the needle in our world?
- [38:00]
Max Chaffkin
Well, he's within some corners of the business world. He is absolutely seen as somebody on that level, on the Thomas Edison level, I think. I think in terms of inventions and that comparison, he didn't invent electric cars, he didn't invent the rocket engine that he's using. But he has been very successful at sort of taking existing technologies and manufacturing them and marketing them. It's almost a cliche to compare him to Steve Jobs, but I think it's similar to Steve Jobs. He's not a technical genius, but he is, is really, really good at marketing and sort of understanding how to create, you know, products, whether those are products that are sold to the government or products that are sold to consumers. And I mean, I think you also have to say he is pretty good at managing investors and managing politics. I mean, as messed up as it was, as chaotic as it was, he managed to play a pretty big role in Donald Trump's election. And he is still like a political power broker. And he's gonna continue to be that, I think, in the years to come.
- [39:11]
Carol Massar
I feel like the bulk of this conversation was about politics rather than his businesses. Does that say something or. The politics is what really supports, as you said, they're intertwined in many ways. Right?
- [39:23]
Max Chaffkin
I mean, I think his, the story around Elon now is an investor story. It's a story about investors making a bet and believing, as you said, Carol, running that stock up really, really high, based on a belief in the future. And it's less about what the company's doing now, because what the company's doing now, what Tesla is doing now anyway, has not been particularly successful. But it's a belief that driverless cars are coming any day now. And there are a lot of people in the stock market who think that's true.
- [39:52]
Carol Massar
So we're not going to hear about them in 2026.
- [39:55]
Tim Stanwick
Okay, so just, we could have done this for 20, 30, 40 minutes max. We, we barely scratched the surface. Yeah, 2026, SpaceX's IPO. I imagine we are going to be spending quite a bit of time talking about Elon next year.
- [40:09]
Max Chaffkin
I mean, we're definitely talking about Elon. I think that, you know, we'll see if that IPO happens on schedule.
- [40:15]
Tim Stanwick
You're a little skeptical?
- [40:16]
Max Chaffkin
No, no, I'm not skeptical. I just think it's very. I think anytime we're talking about a mega IPO like that, we're talking about trying to time the markets and I think there's just a lot of uncertainty in the market. So, yeah, I mean, if markets are doing what they're currently doing, then I think there's a very good chance that Elon Musk might say, yeah, this makes sense. On the other hand, he has for years and years and years talked about how much he hates running a public company. Remember he nuked his reputation like seven years ago because he hated having Tesla public so much. And I think it makes sense to do it again and with SpaceX, just because the public markets give him so much leverage. His ability to just get whatever he wants from the stock market and from kind of retail investors is so important. Would be helpful to SpaceX, just as it's helpful to Tesla. But if he can't do that at a good price, I don't think he will because why would he? He doesn't necessarily have to.
- [41:13]
Carol Massar
I gotta ask, and I know we have to wrap, but X, formerly Twitter, is.
- [41:17]
Tim Stanwick
How do we even not talk about that?
- [41:18]
Carol Massar
I know, Is it just insignificant or it's just. I don't even know. Does he even use it that much anymore?
- [41:23]
Max Chaffkin
You know, I think part. So, So X is definitely less like broadly influential than it used to be as a kind of like media thing. Now part of that is because Elon Musk brought back all these kind of right wingers who were banned for various reasons and the site has become sort of more of a conservative social network. Right? It's kind of like Fox News to Instagram, you know, MSNBC or something like that. And so as a result, right, it doesn't have the same kind of broad influence, but it is still very influential kind of on the right. It is where, like if you are, if you're on the right, it's where you're talking to your, to friends, rivals, etc. The other thing is like, it's, it's like an AI thing now. It's just a, it's just a way For Grok x AI Elon Musk's answer to ChatGPT to, to sort of gather information and, and so for, for those, it's. It's not like it's become less valuable I think. And in fact, it's probably become more valuable over the last year, but it's probably less influential than it was.
- [42:25]
Tim Stanwick
Max Chaffkin, we could go on with you for hours. We appreciate you taking the time. That's Max Chaffkin, Bloomberg businessweek senior reporter. He's the co host of the Everybody's Business podcast. He's the author of the Contrarian, Peter Thiel and Silicon Valley's Pursuit of Power.
- [42:39]
Carol Massar
And that wraps up our first hour of the weekend edition of Bloomberg Businessweek from Bloomberg Radio. Coming up in the next 60 minutes, a holiday reading list, perhaps including an eye opening and exploration into digital empires and the global regulation of AI technology.
- [42:52]
Tim Stanwick
Plus unlocking the best in one another. That's what behavioral psychologist John Levy calls collective genius. And he was the CEO of Jamba Juice on the board of the honest company Kava. And now he's helping others build an organization with purpose. James D. White joins us in the next hour.
- [43:08]
Carol Massar
This is Bloomberg businessweek. I'm Carol Massar.
- [43:11]
Tim Stanwick
And I'm Tim Stanwick.
- [43:16]
John Levy
If a Lenovo computer for your business is on your holiday list, don't shop around, just go directly to the source Lenovo.com it's your last chance to get exclusive deals on the PCs you want for your business, like the ThinkPad X914 Aura Edition and Yoga 7i 2in1. So avoid all that shopping chaos and price comparing and just go directly to the source. Lenovo.com where PCs are up to 35% off. That's Lenovo.com. So let me get this straight.
- [43:50]
Tim Stanwick
Your company has data here, there and.
- [43:52]
John Levy
Everywhere, but your AI can't use the data because it's here, there and everywhere?
- [43:59]
Tim Stanwick
Seems like something's missing.
- [44:01]
John Levy
Every business has unique data. IBM helps your AI access your data wherever it lives. To change how you do business, let's create Smile to Business. IBM.
- [44:17]
Tim Stanwick
Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder? With a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other, one for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting. Before you know it, you are drowning in software instead of growing your business. This is where Odoo comes in. Odoo is the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all in one, fully integrated platform that handles everything, CRM, accounting, inventory, E commerce, HR and more. No more app overload, no more juggling logins. Just one seamless system that makes work easier. And the best part, Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. It's built to grow with your business whether you are just starting out or already scaling up. Plus, it's easy to use, customizable and designed to streamline every process so you can focus on what really matters running your business. Thousands of businesses have made the switch, so why not you try Odoo for free@odoo.com that's o d o o.com Enterprise AI is revolutionizing customer engagement and Amazon's Alexa demonstrates this transformation at scale. Alexa represents a breakthrough in AI assistance evolving from basic command response to goal oriented autonomous operation. Powered by AWS AI, this enterprise grade technology processes billions of natural language interactions daily, continuously improving through machine learning. The result? A secure, scalable voice AI platform that's transforming customer experience across industries for businesses. This represents more than just voice assistants, it's proven framework for AI driven digital transformation. Global organizations are already deploying AWS voice technology solutions to enhance customer service, streamline operations and drive innovation. Transform your business operations with the same AI technology powering millions of Alexa interactions worldwide. AWS AI the Voice of Innovation Discover the Alexa story@aws.com AI our-store. You're listening to the Bloomberg Businessweek Daily podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5pm Eastern. Listen on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app or watch us live on YouTube.
- [46:36]
Carol Massar
Plenty ahead in our second hour of the weekend edition of Bloomberg Businessweek. It's a holiday reading list from some of the authors we spoke to in the last few months, including one the author of a book about an alternative way we think about great leaders. And I gotta tell you, it just may be time to throw out all those other management books. We will talk to the author of Team Intelligence How Brilliant Leaders Unlock Collective.
- [46:58]
Tim Stanwick
Genius, plus the former CEO of Jamba Juice on shaping company culture in the age of Gen Z employees. First up this hour though, our phones, our data, the apps we use every day. Behind it all is a quiet but consequential power struggle over who gets to make the rules of the digital world. Our next guest examines how the world's biggest powers, the us, China and the eu, are exporting their digital rule books and what that means for all of us. The question how is the future of the digital world going to look for.
- [47:29]
Carol Massar
Help answering that question? Emily Griffeo and Tim spoke to Anu Bradford. She is Henry L. Moses professor of Law and International Organization at Columbia Law School. She's also the author of the book Digital the Global Battle to Regulate Technology.
- [47:45]
Anu Bradford
So thanks so much for having me, Tim and Emily. We may well be Cooked. But the question is, what are we most worried about? I think there are many exciting developments. I think we're certainly more entertained in many ways. But at the same time, I think those who warned us early on that this is not the kind of AI revolution that we should be just leaving for the tech companies to govern, to manage. We do need governments involved, we need some guardrails, we need some regulation to make sure that these fast advances that we are witnessing are moving to the direction that we're comfortable with.
- [48:21]
Tim Stanwick
It seems like it's too late, though.
- [48:22]
Anu Bradford
I don't think it's too late. I think we certainly are not at the point where we can say that AI is done. I think we will continue to see massive developments in coming years. And we already have AI governance regulation on the radar of many lawmakers. And obviously the Europeans have been most proactive, as they usually are, and they have the AI Act, a comprehensive piece of legislation that is already in force. And now it's then the matter of implementing it effectively. And then we also need to see what happens in the United States at the state level. China is definitely interested in governing AI. We have many other jurisdictions. So I think there is a lot that is. Is happening and a lot more that needs to be done.
- [49:10]
Tim Stanwick
In your new book, Digital Empires, you.
- [49:14]
Nikki Eckstein
Break apart how Basically different regimes across the globe are governing and regulating AI differently. So there's the us, there's Europe, there's China. In your research, have you found one.
- [49:31]
Anu Bradford
Nation is kind of doing that balancing.
- [49:34]
Nikki Eckstein
Act the best so far in terms of balancing out.
- [49:37]
Anu Bradford
They don't want to stifle innovation, but.
- [49:39]
Carol Massar
They also want to protect users of.
- [49:42]
Tim Stanwick
AI consumers of AI companies that are.
- [49:44]
Anu Bradford
Getting involved with AI, who's. Who's doing the balancing act the best, in your view. So I think any regulator really needs to think about this balancing to make sure that we harness these tremendous benefits that are associated with AI, but also really safeguard our citizens and societies from various risks. And in many ways there is a perception that the Europeans are erring on the side or preemptively protecting against these risks and maybe then forgoing some of the innovation benefits. Whereas the Americans would be erring on the side of maybe being very techno optimist and not thinking about all those potential downsides. I think in many ways I do like and endorse the European model in the sense that in my view that best safeguards the public interest and really takes seriously the fundamental rights of individuals and democratic structures of the society. But there is always. I really reject this notion that this comes at the cost of innovation. There definitely is a gap where the Americans are doing much better in generating AI innovations compared to the U.S. europeans. But the reason is not that the Europeans are so keen on regulating. I think there are many other reasons that explain why. There are just fundamental pillars of the tech ecosystem in the US that are much stronger and the Europeans have fallen short in replicating that. So regulation as such, the protection of those rights is not a choice that needs to come at the cost of making beneficial progress in this space.
- [51:27]
Tim Stanwick
So, you know, I keep going back to our conversation that we had with you two years ago, because the world has changed so much since then. Two years ago, Joe Biden was president. There were a lot of folks who didn't think that Donald Trump would win another term. Fast forward two years. Donald Trump is the president. David Sacks is crypto and AI czar. The regime thinks about this completely differently than I think it's fair to say the Biden administration. What do you think the US needs to be doing right now to regulate this technology? What would you like to see David Sacks do?
- [52:08]
Anu Bradford
Yeah, so you're so right. There has been a complete U turn in many ways. Towards the end of the Biden administration. There was closer alignment between the traditional transatlantic allies where the US was really moving closer to the European view view that technology like AI needs guardrails. And there was a genuine attempt to join forces among the world's techno democracies in order to halt the advances of Chinese digital authoritarian views of governing technology. So I really saw this potential for the US and the EU to join forces to bring about a very beneficial change in this space. But now the US is doing, I think, two things. So it's first of all giving a lot more power to the tech companies, walking away from regulation, embracing this deregulatory zeal that really reflects the very strong form of techno, libertarian, techno optimist worldview. But in many ways, the US is also playing Beijing's game and becoming very state driven. We see massive state investment in some of these leading tech companies. We see export controls, investment restrictions, we see subsidies. So the US is to me, losing some of its own goals. And if you think about how that will also impact the US's adamant goal of being a leader in AI, what is happening in the space of immigration, I think that is really counterproductive. If you think about where all those AI innovation comes, innovations come from the us. So what the US would need to do first, the US would need to regulate this space. We need to make sure that fundamental rights are protected. We need to make sure that those societal risks are under control. And we need to also, at the same time make sure that we will continue to invest in the development of the AI by retaining the world's best talent, which often is immigrant talent, including then Chinese data scientists who have been contributing to advances in the space in the U.S. u.S. Is there any specific regulation that comes to mind like that you would want to see in the.
- [54:24]
Nikki Eckstein
US that would prevent this kind of.
- [54:28]
Anu Bradford
Idea that Tim presented in the beginning of the segment about this, the spaghetti test.
- [54:34]
Carol Massar
It sounds silly, the Will Smith spaghetti.
- [54:36]
Anu Bradford
Test, but it gets at the heart.
- [54:37]
Tim Stanwick
To show you the videos. It's like, it's crazy.
- [54:40]
Max Chaffkin
Yeah.
- [54:40]
Carol Massar
Concern that people have that suddenly the.
- [54:42]
Anu Bradford
Internet is going to be, you know, filled with these videos and we're not.
- [54:47]
Tim Stanwick
Going to tell what's real. And Emily, it's the end. I'm sorry.
- [54:52]
Anu Bradford
Well, maybe we can have a professor help suggest.
- [54:55]
Tim Stanwick
She said it's not. She said it's not the end already, which I'm grateful for.
- [54:58]
Anu Bradford
It's not the end.
- [54:59]
Nikki Eckstein
Is there a specific piece of regulation.
- [55:01]
Anu Bradford
That comes to mind?
- [55:02]
Nikki Eckstein
Is it about, I don't know, digital privacy? People needing disclaimers on top of every video that you see on the Internet?
- [55:10]
Anu Bradford
So I think there are many aspects and there's no easy way to say that you just need to do one thing in order to then address this multitude of different harms. But one thing, it does start from the protection of privacy and our agency and our ability to be able to tell what is fiction and what is not, and our ability to engage in conversation based on real information that is not manipulated by AI. And this information obviously existed even without ChatGPT type of tools, but they are now fueled with this AI driven ability to manipulate our sense of reality. So in many ways, I think it does need labeling, it does need the kind of transparency and accountability that we have a sense of, of how these AI systems are built and how we engage with them. But then there are also risks around just protecting content, content creators. We need to take copyright seriously. And the idea of how do you actually train these models with the data that has been generated by individual authors, by journalists, and that needs to be also compensated well so that we still have the incentive to engage in that kind of content production. But privacy is obviously very high on my list. Disinformation is very high on my list. Then there are questions that are more about existential risks, more about systemic risks. And even if it's hard to sometimes know the probabilities of some of the most severe risks and how likely they are to materialize. We still need to be prepared to also, as a society to confront that kind of reality when AI advances really fast and we reach the point when we find even harder to govern that technology. So I think there are all these layers and we are not even really having, at least at the federal level, a real conversation in how we go about regulating this space.
- [57:13]
Tim Stanwick
Professor Anu Bradford Henry El Moses professor of Law and International Organization at Columbia Law School. She's the author of several books, including her most recent, Digital the Global Battle to Regulate Technology, published back in 2023. But as relevant right now as it was two years ago, please do come back soon and join us here on Bloomberg Businessweek Daily. This is the Bloomberg Businessweek Daily podcast. Listen live each weekday starting at 2pm Eastern on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg 11:30.
- [57:52]
Carol Massar
Elon has it. So too does President Trump and Steve Jobs also as well.
- [57:58]
Tim Stanwick
We're talking about leadership. I mean, these are all leaders. John Levy thinks about leadership a lot. He argues, though, that one thing all leaders have in common is not the thing that we're told when it comes to these executive coaches or these business school courses, like, you know, empathy or humility, those sorts of things, he says. It's something else. John Levy is a behavioral scientist and New York Times best selling author. He's got a new book out, Team How Brilliant Leaders Unlock Collective Genius.
- [58:29]
John Levy
Let's think about it like this Elon Musk or Steve Jobs, right? They weren't great at creating psychological safety or even getting consensus among their leadership, yet people still hold them up as these examples of amazing leaders. The problem is that what we've been sold is that and mostly through universities like Harvard, Yale and so on, is that we have to have these essential skills if you want to be a leader and if you pay them a whole lot of money, they'll teach you those skills and then you'll be a certified leader. Congratulations. The problem is it just doesn't track. When we really started looking at this, there was only one trait that was common across all leaders.
- [59:06]
Tim Stanwick
What is it?
- [59:07]
John Levy
It's that they have followers. It's so self referential and it's kind of ridiculous. And so we really wanted to ask the question then, okay, what causes us to follow someone? Generally people say, okay, it's vision and charisma, but that doesn't make sense. There are plenty of people who have no vision and no charisma, and still people follow them.
- [59:27]
Anu Bradford
Yeah.
- [59:28]
John Levy
So the answer, it turns out, comes down to this. Do you remember how you felt when you were in high school? On Sunday at 6pm The Sunday Scaries. Now, I want you to think about this. You were free, you were at home, but you felt anxious. Friday at 1 o', clock, you were in class. But how did you feel? Great. Yeah. So excited.
- [59:46]
Carol Massar
Ecstatic.
- [59:47]
John Levy
And that's because human beings don't relate to the present, they relate to the future that they believe they have. If you can make me feel we.
- [59:54]
Tim Stanwick
Don'T live in the moment.
- [59:55]
John Levy
Definitely not. We believe we tend to have this association right now to what we think is about to happen. And so in high school on Sunday, what was going to happen was school the next day, or if you're about to leave for vacation, you might be sitting at work, but you're wildly excited. The reason we follow somebody is because when we interact with them or their media, they cause us to feel that there'll be a new and better future. That's it.
- [60:22]
Carol Massar
So that's fascinating. So let's take it to somebody. President Trump, is that kind of his success or where he is today? It's because of that.
- [60:33]
John Levy
I would argue that people in general vote for whoever they feel will cause them to have a new and better future, whether it's President Trump or it's investing into Elon Musk's companies. Listen, when you read the reports of what he's like as a boss. Elon. Right. It's not the type of boss that we exemplify.
- [60:54]
Tim Stanwick
I mean, you might not even have to read reports of what he's like as a boss. You could just follow him on social media, get a good understanding of his personality.
- [61:01]
John Levy
And when you do, you have to ask yourself, like, is this really the person I'd want to be reporting to? And the answer is maybe not. But what he's amazing at is he has a handful of super skills that nobody else has.
- [61:16]
Brad Stone
Right.
- [61:16]
John Levy
He thinks at scale and moves faster than anyone in our society. And those super skills are so profound that when we interact with them, people will either say, hey, we'll give him a trillion dollar bonus. Right. Or we will come and work for you, or we want to launch things into space. But it's not because he's charismatic.
- [61:34]
Tim Stanwick
Right? I mean, look at the example of when he pieced together the Doge team. What were the qualifications that he put out there? Right. You have to work 80 hours a week. You're not going to get paid.
- [61:44]
Carol Massar
Yeah.
- [61:44]
Tim Stanwick
And you know, he had sign me up. He had people from all over the country who not just wanted to work with him, but believed in his mission.
- [61:50]
Anu Bradford
Yeah.
- [61:51]
Carol Massar
It's really kind of fascinating. So the things that we get. So being nice and generous is not necessarily things that are going to make a good leader.
- [62:00]
John Levy
So I want to separate two things. Let's separate being an effective leader from having followers. Having followers just means that people feel that you'll have a new and better or they'll feel.
- [62:10]
Carol Massar
Doesn't mean you will.
- [62:11]
John Levy
Correct. Because you could have have somebody who's incompetent leading a bunch of morons, frankly, and get nowhere. When we actually started looking at the research of what causes teams to be really effective, it came from a woman named Anita Williams Woolley. And what she found in running a whole series of experiments is that none of the things that we actually thought actually make a team more effective.
- [62:35]
Brad Stone
Right.
- [62:35]
John Levy
So IQ of the smartest person. No effect. Average iq, no effect. How much people liked each other. Not a great predictor.
- [62:44]
Brad Stone
Right.
- [62:44]
John Levy
Do you need to trust each other? Sure. Or think that somebody's competent? Yeah. But you don't necessarily need to want to invite everybody you work with to your wedding or something like that. The single greatest predictor, the number of women on the team. Yeah. And I want to be clear. It's not because they're women. It's not a chromosomal thing. We're not out of a job. Don't worry.
- [63:06]
Tim Stanwick
He was looking at me. Yeah.
- [63:08]
John Levy
It's because women index higher on emotional intelligence. And so there are plenty of men with high emotional intelligence. Plenty of women who don't have any.
- [63:15]
Carol Massar
But this is. Wait. This makes a better wait. So more women on a team means what?
- [63:20]
John Levy
That on average you have more emotional intelligence on the team and then the team can function better because they can coordinate better.
- [63:26]
Carol Massar
And then they outperform.
- [63:28]
John Levy
Because when you have a single person. Sport, sport, it's all about pure talent. Right. Or activity. But when you have a group, you've gone from taking your shots to passing either information or the ball. Now, if I can't communicate with you, we are not going to be able to work well together.
- [63:43]
Carol Massar
Right.
- [63:44]
John Levy
Having that high emotional intelligence on the team means that we know when to push on a topic and when not to who to call on, even if they're being quiet and get the information out.
- [63:54]
Tim Stanwick
Your behavioral like, well, what is your credential in this? Because you've, you've studied behavioral Science.
- [64:00]
Brad Stone
Yeah.
- [64:00]
Tim Stanwick
But you know, there are entire curricula that are dedicated to teaching leadership that ostensibly have evidence backed, you know, elements that are backed by studies that say this is the right way to do things. And you're essentially saying that's not really the right predictor here. We haven't been looking at the right thing. What's the evidence that you have when it comes to number of followers or people who are actually following this charismatic personality that says this is the right outcome?
- [64:29]
John Levy
So let's separate a few things on the team stuff. There's a bunch of research I mentioned, Anita Williams, Willie, and there's several studies that back the same thing, that teams with more emotional intelligence outperform on the leadership side. When you actually look at all of the studies on people who've gotten MBAs versus those who just, they find that there is absolutely no improvement in performance whatsoever having an MBA versus not compared. And there's several of these studies on the three year mark, five year mark, seven year mark. There's no evidence in better management skills or anything like that. And so the skills that we're told are essential, we might not really be able to train them in the way that these programs are running.
- [65:12]
Tim Stanwick
The reason I ask about your. I don't know, you want to jump in. But the reason I ask about the credentialing here is because, because you have this background in having these dinners and hosting thousands of people over the last 10 years.
- [65:25]
John Levy
15. Yeah, 15 people.
- [65:26]
Tim Stanwick
15 years, 4,000 people.
- [65:28]
John Levy
Yeah.
- [65:28]
Tim Stanwick
These are private influencer dinners where you have had Nobel laureates, Olympians. You're listening to the Bloomberg Business daily podcast from 2 to 5pm what are these takeaways that you've been able to gather from disparate group of people together or watch us live on YouTube?
- [65:47]
John Levy
So there's kind of two main things that I've, I've really noticed. The first is that all of them are at the top of their industry, whether they're commanding the International Space Station or they're running a major company. And none of them have the same characteristics at all. Malala does not produce results in the same way as a military commander, but people follow and will go very far in both cases. Right. To support that cause. The second is, and this is kind of a wilder thing that people don't really notice is that no matter how successful people are, they tend not to feel like they fit in or belong because the CEO knows that they've had three great quarters. But if the next two are off, they might be out of A job. And the Olympian knows that maybe they won at the last Olympics, but who knows if they'll even qualify at the next one? And then no one will care. And so no matter what, there's this absolute factor that people feel a great desire to want to fit in and belong. Which brings me to my real desire to understand is clearly those leadership traits didn't matter. And if there's such a great desire to belong, it's because human beings tend to be best with each other.
- [67:01]
Tim Stanwick
Other.
- [67:02]
John Levy
So let's try and understand at our core what will allow us to be best with each other. And that's what the book explores, which is what are the characteristics that makes teams smarter than the sum of their parts?
- [67:12]
Carol Massar
Okay, so why, if that is our driving force. When I look at Congress, and I know you layer politics on things and things change, but if we are better.
- [67:25]
Tim Stanwick
They cannot be studied.
- [67:26]
Carol Massar
If we are better as a group and a community and. Yes, indeed. Right. They have to vote on things. And so when they work together, things can actually move forward or at least move. Why does that not work its way out?
- [67:40]
John Levy
So that's, I think, a great question. And I want to be very clear. I don't study politics. I'm not an expert.
- [67:45]
Carol Massar
No. And full disclosure, like you lay politics on everything and feel a bit different.
- [67:50]
John Levy
I'm under the impression that things change. And this is what I've been told after Newt Gingrich was in Congress because he really pushed for less cooperation and also for people to spend more time in their home districts. Now, when that occurs, then we have something called the mere exposure effect. The mere exposure effect is simply. Here's the funny thing. Have you ever. What would you consider the greatest painting of all time?
- [68:15]
Carol Massar
Well, people will say Mona Lisa.
- [68:17]
John Levy
Exactly. Do you know why?
- [68:19]
Tim Stanwick
Isn't it the perfectly symmetrical?
- [68:21]
John Levy
That's what tell you. But that's frankly not true. In 1911, a man walked into the Louvre on a Monday while it was closed. The Louvre was protected by 11 mostly drunk legionnaires and walked into the Renaissance section, ripped the smallest painting he could off the wall, took it out of its frame, and then wrapped it in a workman's mock and walked out.
- [68:43]
Carol Massar
That was the Mona Lisa, wasn't?
- [68:45]
John Levy
Yeah, yeah. Newspapers around the world spread images of it, and that's the first time almost anybody had ever heard of it. It was not considered a great painting. Three years later, it was returned once again, newspapers around the world rejoiced. And it was a way to. It was the build up to World War I. So it was a way to make fun of the French government and its incompetence at the time. Now human beings tend to like and trust the things that they're familiar with. And when you see the person who might be across the aisle picking up kids at school and your kids are in the same class and you're at the same birthday parties and you develop familiarity and trust and all these other factors outside of that voting room, then suddenly you tend to treat people with more humanity and have a greater ability to work with them. And so, so much like the Mona Lisa is not really a great painting if you actually speak to historians. The lack of that mere exposure and the trust that develops from interacting outside of these traditional negotiations, we've lost a lot of that.
- [69:52]
Carol Massar
Well, and we always bring up Alan Greenspan saying years ago about how when he was in Washington, people actually Democrats, Republicans, went to cocktail parties together. And so, you know, you have a glass of wine with somebody and yeah, you know, you kind of relate. You're much more relatable, if you will. John, this was really, really fun. Hopefully we can catch up again in the future.
- [70:11]
John Levy
I'd be honored. Thank you for having me.
- [70:13]
Anu Bradford
Yeah.
- [70:13]
Carol Massar
John Levy, he's a behavioral scientist, New York Times best selling author. His new book is Team How Brilliant Leaders Unlock Collective Genius. Joining us right here in studio, were.
- [70:22]
Tim Stanwick
You invited to one of the secret dinners ever?
- [70:24]
Carol Massar
It's secret, so I can't tell.
- [70:25]
Tim Stanwick
Oh, okay. Yes, same, same.
- [70:32]
John Levy
If a Lenovo computer for your business is on your holiday list, don't shop around. Just go directly to the source. Lenovo.com it's your last chance to get exclusive deals on the PCs you want for your business, like the ThinkPad X914 Aura Edition and Yoga 7i 2in1. So avoid all that shopping chaos and price comparing and just go directly to the source. Lenovo.com where PCs are up to 35% off. That's Lenovo.com. So let me get this straight.
- [71:06]
Tim Stanwick
Your company has data here, there and.
- [71:08]
John Levy
Everywhere, but your AI can't use the data because it's here, there and everywhere?
- [71:16]
Tim Stanwick
Seems like something's missing.
- [71:18]
John Levy
Every business has unique data. IBM helps your AI access your data wherever it lives. To change how you do business, let's create smarter business. IBM.
- [71:33]
Tim Stanwick
Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder With a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other. One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting. Before you know it, you are drowning in software. Instead of growing your business. This is where ODOO comes in. Odoo is the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all in one fully integrated platform that handles everything CRM, accounting, inventory, E commerce, HR and more. No more app overload, no more juggling logins. Just one seamless system that makes work easier. And the best part? Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. It's built to grow with your business, whether you are just starting out or already scaling up. Plus, it's easy to use, customizable and designed to streamline every process so you can focus on what really matters running your business. Thousands of businesses have made the switch, so why not you try Odoo for free@odoo.com that's o d o o.com in today's digital economy, enterprise leaders are seeing firsthand how AI is transforming advertising. Amazon Ads demonstrates this every day. AWS AI processes billions of advertising decisions in real time, driving campaign optimization on a truly global scale. So what does this mean for enterprise operations? AWS AI enables precise targeting and dynamic optimization across your entire advertising ecosystem. Amazon has proven this through its own digital transformation the deploying enterprise grade AI solutions that compress multi week workflows into hours while maintaining precision at global scale. AWS AI's machine learning capabilities integrate seamlessly with existing advertising workflows, all while maintaining enterprise grade security and compliance. And because it scales effortlessly, it can support organizations operating in 10 markets or 100. Transform your advertising operations with the same AI technology that powers Amazon global success. AWS AI where advertising meets Intelligence See the Amazon ad story@aws.com AI our-story. You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5pm Eastern. Listen on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app or watch us live on YouTube. Carol, you know, I'm from this small town on the central coast of California.
- [74:02]
Carol Massar
Wait, you're from California?
- [74:04]
Tim Stanwick
Yeah, it's known for a few things. We've got the last operating nuclear power plant in the state.
- [74:08]
Carol Massar
You do?
- [74:08]
Tim Stanwick
That's why I'm glowing. Yes, Hearst Castle is right there.
- [74:12]
Carol Massar
Oh, it is, right. Yeah, I forgot about that.
- [74:14]
Tim Stanwick
Also, there's this little smoothie shop. When I was growing up, it was called Juice Club. Ah. And for special treats after school, I would get to go to Juice Club. My parents would take me there, or a babysitter would take us there.
- [74:26]
Carol Massar
Sounds like you love it.
- [74:28]
Tim Stanwick
Yeah, it was started by this guy who went to Cal Poly and Juice Club is what Jamba Juice was before they did a rebrand, did an IPO, and became the company that it's known for now.
- [74:40]
Carol Massar
I love that.
- [74:41]
Tim Stanwick
So Jamba Juice began. It began as Juice Club on like, you know, on Foothill. James D. White knows all about this. He's former CEO of Jamba Juice. He led it from 2008 to 2016. He's also the author of several books. His new book out this month along with Krista White, called Culture how to Build a High Performing Resilient Organization with Purpose. He's also the chairman of the board of the Honest Company. He's co founder, chair and CEO of Culture Design Lab and a board member at the fast casual chain Cava. He joins us from Scottsdale, Arizona. Good to have you on the program. James, how are you?
- [75:14]
James D. White
Tim and Carol, thanks for hosting me.
- [75:17]
Tim Stanwick
When you were CEO of Jamba, did you ever get to go to that Foothill location in San Luis Obispo? Bo?
- [75:23]
James D. White
Absolutely.
- [75:24]
Tim Stanwick
The original. That was the one. Okay. That's amazing.
- [75:27]
James D. White
Absolutely. And got to spend time with Kirk Perrin, the fantastic founder who we lost a few years ago.
- [75:34]
Tim Stanwick
Yeah, very tragic. Well, I want to talk a little bit about Culture Design, how to build a high performing, resilient organization with purpose. But, but first, I just want to remind everybody about what Jamba Juice was when and you were leading it from 2008 to 2016. It's now owned by a private equity firm, but it did have a life as a publicly traded company. What was Jamba Juice under your tenure?
- [76:01]
James D. White
Well, I joined Jamba in December 2008 and led the company through a turnaround and transformation. We're a public company. Market cap over my tenure increased by 500%. We really repositioned the company from a smoothie chain to more healthy lifestyle brand, but had a great run, you know, 28/4 as a public company CEO.
- [76:35]
Carol Massar
So tell us about, like going through your experiences and kind of what you learned in terms of running a company, building a company, going through different cycles, what that has taught you.
- [76:51]
James D. White
I think for me, the place I always start and I just go back to really my first week on the job at Jamba is you start with the people, you start with the key stakeholders. And you know, for me, as I go back to that first week, we asked, you know, four simple questions. What should the organization start doing? What should we stop doing? And what are the things that are working well that we should continue? And then the final bonus question is, what advice would you have for me as CEO? And we really leverage that approach with really all of our stakeholder groups and use that to build a plan to turn around and transform the company. But I always start with people first. The thesis of our book is companies have culture by design or default. So always be intentional in building a company's culture.
- [77:40]
Tim Stanwick
So, so talk about who those key stakeholders are. And then I have this, this follow up question that I think Carol will nod because she kind of knows exactly where I'm going. When you, when you start it, when you start on a board or when you're, you know, a decision maker at a company, who are the stakeholders you speak to to understand the culture?
- [77:59]
James D. White
Yeah, I always start with the employees because they actually know what actually needs to be done to, you know, really re energize or strengthen the company. So I started with the hundred or so employees that were in our support center that supported all our stores. Obviously the frontline workforce is a source of fantastic input. The board of directors, key suppliers, but also we talk to consumers as a part of that processes. We formulated the original transformation plan at Jamba.
- [78:36]
Tim Stanwick
So connect that with company performance because every, you know, and zoom just reported earnings for example. And when we look at any company that reports its most recent quarter, we talk about numbers like the outlook, we talk about top line revenue, we talk about margins, we talk about outlooks or we talk about what happened in the current quarter. What we don't talk about is the company's culture. We don't talk about how happy employees are or if they're not happy. We don't talk about customer satisfaction because investors don't necessarily trade on those things. How do you connect those non tangibles to the actual numbers that a public company reports?
- [79:17]
James D. White
Yeah, the way I think about it is, and I've got a colleague of mine, a board colleague of mine that says the human capital drives the financial capital and that directly relates to the people and relates to the company culture. We think about culture being the huge unlock in this environment. And the reason we wrote the book Culture Design is we felt like with the dramatic change over the course of the last five years, the thing that we've not talked about as much as we need to is we look at hybrid work. The influences of AI is the company culture and how that shift needs to happen. The best companies become change savvy in terms of how they lead the companies moving forward. And the book has three pillars. Knowing what matters. That's really about the context that the company operates in, doing what matters. How do you operationalize culture? How does culture really live day to day inside an Organization. And then anything in business that matters, you actually measure it in the, you know, there are both hard and soft measurements. You know, employee engagement, there's poll surveys, there's net promoter scores, but there's employee net promoter scores that are one of the things that I find incredibly helpful. But they, the best leaders are thinking harder about this whether they're in the boardroom or running companies today.
- [80:50]
Carol Massar
Hey, James, one thing I want to ask you, and I'm just curious. You wrote this with your daughter Krista, and I was just looking at one thing. I think it's page 96 here and how she has kind of taught you that an effective leader actually shares a lot of their life journey, is a lot more transparent with folks at work. And it's interesting, like I've often heard people like, your personal life is your personal life. Don't bring it to the office. Keep them separate. Like, you just don't share stuff. And yet, you know, your lifeline is in there and like all the things that you've gone through in your life. And I'm just the importance of like leaders and leadership sharing their life journey with the folks that work with them.
- [81:39]
James D. White
We think that empathy is really a core capability. And one of the things that I've learned in my work with my millennial daughter is kind of sharing more of myself really strengthens the ability for me to connect with leaders and people on a really different level. So. So this is not really where I started as a leader, but have kind of learned this over the arc of a career. And it's really a force multiplier. When we get to know each other as human beings, we can find the things that are common. And what I found from a leadership perspective is that allows you to unlock the full potential of the organization by being more human and kind of humanizing the leader. We interviewed one leader that describes his version of this as he provides new teams that he joined. Sam Bright, he runs Google Play. He describes a user manual on how to best work with him as a leader. He does some of the same kinds of things where he shares information on his family and background, which is really a shortcut to how we might work best together. His colleagues.
- [82:54]
Tim Stanwick
James, before we let you go, you've, you've written. This is not your first book that you've written along with your daughter Krista. Back in 2022, you wrote anti Racist Leadership how to Transform Corporate Culture in a Race Conscious World. We spent a lot of time. Carol and I have been doing this together for five years and over that period of time, the conversation around DEI has changed a lot. Most recently the iteration is, is these companies getting rid of DEI programs, not talking about it anymore.
- [83:22]
Carol Massar
So they're not being a conversation around it.
- [83:24]
Tim Stanwick
Yeah, I mean we're talking, we're doing a deep dive on target in just a few minutes and they've gone through their own issues with this. I'm just wondering what the state of you of of how you view DEI and anti racism now in 2025 and how that's different among C suite executives versus 2022.
- [83:44]
James D. White
Yes, I think the conversation has definitely changed. But I think the best leaders, at least the best leaders that I work with, they've got a true north. They're very focused on their values and they know that if you put people first and you create an environment where all the humans get to do their best work, you're going to always win. And what I always advise companies and the leaders that I work with, the labeling of things, I'm less concerned with. I'm more concerned with, you know, really the true north of the organization and how we focused on creating environments where everybody can do their very best work. And that starts with people and it starts with culture by design.
- [84:32]
Carol Massar
I would assume that then that is like if you had to give one piece of advice to leaders that are out there and they get so much advice. But I just curious, is that what it would be or something else and just got about 40 seconds here.
- [84:43]
James D. White
It would be, you know, really put the human beings, the people in your organization first and work hard to create and design environments where they can do their very best work and bring their full selves to the organization. And I think it will yield great benefits that will deliver high performance results.
- [85:03]
Carol Massar
Well, very much appreciate it, James. Thank you so much. James D. White, former CEO of Jamba Juice. He led the company from 2008 to 2016. He is the co author of a book that he did with his daughter second book that he did with his daughter. This book though Culture how to Build a High Performing Resilient Organization with Purpose. And you can catch that book. It is out now. James, thank you so much.
- [85:27]
Tim Stanwick
This is the Bloomberg Business Week daily podcast available on Apple, Spotify and anywhere else you get. Your podcasts listen live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5pm Eastern on Bloomberg.com, the iHeartRadio app, TuneIn and the Bloomberg Business app. You can also watch us live Every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg terminal.
- [85:57]
John Levy
If a Lenovo computer for your business is on your holiday list. Don't shop around, just go directly to the source. Lenovo.com it's your last chance to get exclusive deals on the PCs you want for your business, like the ThinkPad X914 Aura Edition and Yoga 7i 2in1. So avoid all that shopping chaos and price comparing and just go directly to the source. Lenovo.com where PCs are up to 35% off. That's Lenovo.com.
- [86:28]
Carol Massar
It's the season to come together over.
- [86:29]
Tim Stanwick
Your holiday favorites at Starbucks.
- [86:31]
Carol Massar
Warm up with a creamy caramel brulee latte, get festive with an iced gingerbread.
- [86:36]
Tim Stanwick
Chai, or share a velvety peppermint mocha.
- [86:38]
Carol Massar
Together is the best place to be.
- [86:40]
Tim Stanwick
At Starbucks with Venmo Stash. A taco in one hand and ordering a ride in the other means you're stacking cash back Nice. Get up to 5% cash back with Venmo Stash on your favorite brands when you purchase, pay with your Venmo debit card. From takeout to ride shares, entertainment and more. Pick a bundle with your go to's and start earning cash back at those brands. Earn more cash when you do more with Stash. Venmo Stash terms and exclusions apply. Max 100 cash back per month.
- [87:09]
John Levy
See terms at Venmo Me Stash Terms.
- [87:13]
Tim Stanwick
This time of year, most of us.
- [87:15]
Max Chaffkin
Are checking off our holiday gift lists, but identity thieves have lists too, and.
- [87:19]
Tim Stanwick
Your personal information might be on there them. Protect your identity with LifeLock LifeLock monitors millions of data points every second and alerts you to threats you could miss. If your identity is stolen, Lifelock will fix it, guaranteed, or your money back. Make this season about joy, not identity theft. With Lifelock, save up to 40% your first year@lifelock.com iheart terms apply.