Loading summary
Transcript401 lines
- [00:01]
Carol Massar
Oh, could this vintage store be any cuter?
- [00:03]
Tim Stenovec
Right.
- [00:04]
Carol Massar
And the best part? They accept Discover.
- [00:06]
Juliet Feld Grossman
Except Discover in a little place like this?
- [00:09]
Carol Massar
I don't think so, Jennifer. Oh, yeah, huh? Discover is accepted where I like to shop.
- [00:13]
Kate Gulliver
Come on, baby, get with the times.
- [00:16]
Carol Massar
Right. So we shouldn't get the parachute pants. These are making a comeback, I think.
- [00:23]
Amanda Fraser
Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide, based on the February 2025 Nielsen report.
- [00:30]
Matt Rogers
This is Matt Rogers from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. This is Bowen Yang from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. Hey, so what if you could boost the WiFi to one of your devices when you need it most? Because Xfinity WI Fi can. And what if your wifi could fix itself before there's even really a problem? Xfinity is so reliable. It does that too. What if your wifi had parental instincts? Xfinity WI Fi is part nanny, part ninja, protecting your kids while they're online. And finally, what if your wifi was like the smartest wifi? Yeah, it's wif. So smart it makes everything work better together. Bottom line, Xfinity is smart and reliable. You deserve the peace of mind of having WI Fi that's got your back. Xfinity. Imagine that Running a business is hard enough. Don't make it harder with a dozen apps that don't talk to each other. One for sales, another for inventory, a
- [01:22]
Amanda Fraser
separate one for accounting. That's software overload.
- [01:25]
Matt Rogers
Odoo is the all in one platform
- [01:26]
Amanda Fraser
that replaces them all.
- [01:28]
Matt Rogers
CRM, accounting, inventory, E Commerce, hr. Fully integrated, easy to use and built.
- [01:34]
Amanda Fraser
Grow with your business.
- [01:35]
Matt Rogers
Thousands have already made the switch.
- [01:37]
Amanda Fraser
Why not you try Odoo for free@o-o.com that's odoo.com this is Bloomberg Business Week
- [01:47]
Tim Stenovec
Daily reporting from the magazine that helps
- [01:50]
Matt Rogers
global leaders stay ahead with insight on
- [01:53]
Tim Stenovec
the people, companies and trends shaping today's complex economy.
- [01:57]
Amanda Fraser
Plus global business, finance and tech news as it happens. Bloomberg Business Week Daily with Carol Massar
- [02:04]
Tim Stenovec
and Tim Stenovec on Bloomberg Bloomberg Radio.
- [02:07]
Carol Massar
Hi everyone. Welcome to the weekend edition of Bloomberg Businessweek. Earnings season is not quite done yet. A lot of consumer facing companies out with results including Wayfair and Wal Mart. This past week we catch up with
- [02:19]
Amanda Fraser
Wayfair CFO Kate Gulliver on the supply chain and how consumers are spending.
- [02:23]
Carol Massar
The world's largest physical retailer reported to this week Walmart issued a forecast for full year earnings that missed higher expectations, flagging the unpredictable state of trade and labor market conditions.
- [02:35]
Amanda Fraser
We go around the retail space with a great analyst and look at how retailers are keeping customers interested and how they're using technology to keep up with demand and compete with Amazon.
- [02:44]
Carol Massar
Plus, President Trump has called bluff on the era of the good corporate citizen. Leaders of businesses from Hilton to Home Depot and more have been largely silent, demurring or hedging when prompted to criticize President Trump. We talk corporate complicity.
- [02:59]
Amanda Fraser
And in our second hour, pop music sensation Bad Bunny driving people to learn Spanish. We catch up with the CEO of bab.
- [03:06]
Carol Massar
We begin with earnings and a read on the consumer thanks to Wayfair CFO Kate Gulliver, who shared what her company's earnings can tell us about the health of the shopping public.
- [03:15]
Kate Gulliver
Maybe let's step back and sort of speak to the quarter we just reported then. I'm happy to shift to guidance. You know, we feel really great about the quarter we just reported. I think it highlighted and capped off a year of incredible momentum for us. We opened up the year flat. We, you know, exited the year at 7% revenue growth, 8%, you know, managing for the exit of Germany. And, and we flowed through to improved EBITDA. EBITDA grew year over year, about 60%. Right. So we're seeing both ongoing market share gains and improved profitability. And that story continues with our guide into Q1. We feel really good about the guide. The, you know, mid single digits revenue growth and improved adjusted EBITDA throughout the quarter. So, you know, when we look at it, we feel that we produce pretty strong results.
- [04:01]
Carol Massar
Yeah, I mean, you look at the quarter, I mean, adjusted EPS better than what the street was expecting. Adjusted ebitda, as you said, coming in stronger. Net revenue up about 7% year over year, gross margin coming in better than the street estimate. There were a lot to do. So maybe we talk a little bit about, you know, I am curious, you know, you guys have dealt with the call and so on and so forth. What are you hearing from the investment community that they're not just so comfortable with? Kate?
- [04:30]
Kate Gulliver
Yeah, you know, actually, you know, as we talk to investors, I think again, they're, they're pleased with the momentum that we see here. You know, obviously we're in a category that has been under pressure. Right. So the category itself we think was down low single digits in the fourth quarter. You know, to your earlier question, sort of around weather in the first quarter. We do think the category has been impacted in the first quarter of this year. You know, likely, you know, down low single digits again, maybe slightly worse. Even than Q4. So there's certainly some complexity in the overall category here. You know, what can we focus on? We can focus on what we can control and our share gain continues to be a real source of strength. You see us outstripping the category by several points. Right. And that's continued, you know, Q3, Q4 and then again into the guide in Q1.
- [05:15]
Carol Massar
And we should point out that investors have been really keen on your stock. I mean, nearly doubling over the past year. Kate, let me just go to what you said. I mean maybe it is those concerns about some softer active customer trends kind of early on in the first quarter. Do you like give us an idea of what you're seeing and any idea or can you tell that continues?
- [05:36]
Kate Gulliver
It's a great question. So Active Customers is one of our reported KPIs. It's actually a lagging indicator. Okay. That metric is LTM active customers. So anyone who sort of placed an order within the last 12 months and as orders grow, and you do see that order volume grew in Q3 and in Q4, that sort of precedes active customer growth. The other thing I do just want to point out there is we did exit in January of last year German business. So that took a large chunk of customers, or not a large chunk, but a chunk of customers out of that number. And so as you're looking at that active customer number, you know, obviously that came out so we'll clear that comp. You know, we exited that in January of this past year.
- [06:16]
Amanda Fraser
You did say the sector has been under pressure and Carol mentioned some of the peers. But what about the Wayfair consumer? When they're buying something on the platform right now, are they buying it because they need to replace something in their home? Are they buying it because they have extra money to upgrade something? What's the profile of the consumer? In other words, how is the consumer doing?
- [06:38]
Kate Gulliver
It's a great question. We're seeing a few trends. So. So you mentioned some of the sort of luxury peers. Obviously we have high end brands that do compete with those players like a Paragould or specialty retail brand. The Wayfarer brand itself, you know, plays all the way from opening price point to, you know, upper end mass. So really spans the full range. And we have seen, you know, a divergence. Some of that K shaped economy I'm sure we've all been talking about now for a bit of certainly our Paragould brand or specialty retail brands are growing, you know, really north of 20% we said in 2025. So you can see that accelerating beyond the overall core business. And I think that speaks to the strength in that, you know, higher net worth consumer. We also do see a bit of a divergence in the types of things that people are buying. When I talk about the category being down low single digits, that's a category overall. We actually think furniture or bigger ticket items are down more. That tends to actually be where we are more focused and have a bigger part of the business. But you know, we also of course sell decorative accent, seasonal decor. That part of the business seems to have done a bit better from a category perspective overall. So those would be lower ticket items, you know, that may feel more comfortable for folks to purchase right now.
- [07:54]
Carol Massar
Well, and the other thing I want to ask you, and listen Kate, we're obsessed with this, the buy now, pay later and you can do that on way fair too. Are you seeing an uptick in that?
- [08:05]
Kate Gulliver
Yeah, we have a number of options, you know, for various financings and buy now, pay later as we work with a wide range of partners. I do think it's an important offering for the consumer. So, you know, to sort of, sort of ensure good underwriting for folks and provide them with a lot of optionality. I would say our penetration there has been lower than other more traditional brick and mortar, brick and mortar furniture retailers. So you know, as we grow, we're really trying to get to, you know, sort of a more natural place there for the furniture industry overall.
- [08:34]
Amanda Fraser
We're speaking with Kate Gulliver, CFO of Wayfair, joining us from Boston.
- [08:39]
Carol Massar
You know, Kate, one of the other things that we've talked with you about is the physical stores and you have noticed some encouraging early performance from the physical stores when it comes to brand engagement and cross channel lift. As you think about or as you kind of move from proof of concept toward potential expansion, what specific performance thresholds are you kind of focusing on and would justify accelerating the physical stor store growth?
- [09:04]
Kate Gulliver
Yeah, it's a great question. So, so we look at the economics of the store itself. So purchases that are directly attributable to the store and the economics of, you know, operating that store. So as you think about the overall store for Wall pnl. But one of the unique things about, you know, building stores, you already have a well established e commerce brand is you do get to see a benefit in the area for the brand overall. But the other thing that we look at is, you know, what in sort of industry parlance you might call the halo effect, but really sales that are attributable to folks that maybe came into the store and then, you know, left and went and bought something or, you know, had an idea about the store being in the area because they've heard more about it and therefore then shopped in our platform. And we've seen that continue to hold in really nicely. We gave a stat in our updated investor presentation today that the first store, which is in Chicago, if you look at the entire state of Illinois versus the rest of the country, since the store opened, it's had a 10% CAGR higher than the rest of the country.
- [10:02]
Carol Massar
Wow.
- [10:03]
Kate Gulliver
And that gives you a sense of, you know, the momentum that you can get from the store. It's obviously very crude metric.
- [10:08]
Carol Massar
Yeah.
- [10:08]
Kate Gulliver
But it's an easy way to sort of explain it. So we really look at the combination of the store, PNL and then the other benefits that come along with having the store.
- [10:16]
Carol Massar
Well, that makes me want to follow, like, what metrics would cause you to maybe remain a little bit more cautious. So, like, if you open another store and the metrics aren't. So you're not seeing that kind of momentum that you're getting in the Chicago store.
- [10:28]
Kate Gulliver
We just.
- [10:29]
Carol Massar
Just say, okay, maybe it just depends on the city, the environment. Like, there's a lot of specifics that go into it.
- [10:34]
Tim Stenovec
Yeah.
- [10:34]
Kate Gulliver
You know, I think our focus right now is on learning more about what makes a great store. Right. So we have one store open. We're planning to open three more in 26. We have one opening soon in the Atlanta area, another one this summer in Columbus, and then in the fall in Denver. These will be, you know, the Columbus store, for example, 70,000 square feet versus the other stores are roughly around 150,000 square feet. So we're testing out a slightly smaller format. We're testing out different types of shopping areas where we put the store. And so we intend to learn and then continue to refine the store model based on those learnings.
- [11:08]
Amanda Fraser
So let's do.
- [11:09]
Kate Gulliver
You know, we are quite excited about it as a channel.
- [11:11]
Amanda Fraser
Okay. Let's go from sort of like the old school store retail model to then what you're doing with AI and layering.
- [11:18]
Carol Massar
Don't you call stores old school?
- [11:20]
Amanda Fraser
Oh, they are. I mean, they're coming back.
- [11:23]
Kate Gulliver
We like the overall omnichannel experience.
- [11:26]
Amanda Fraser
But. But what. How do you layer in personalization with AI? And I'm curious how you that in a way that actually makes you more competitive in this area?
- [11:36]
Kate Gulliver
Yeah, we're. We're really excited about what we can do with AI from the customer experience. Perspective. And we've already started some of that and piloted some of that on the site, and there's certainly more to come there. You know, I think this category is a bit unique in that respect because it's a category that is a highly emotive category. Right. It feels very personal to folks. It's not a commodity category where you're doing sort stuff of standard replenishment. You want to get a better sense and see the actual options out there. The brand is important. You know, our brand is important because you want to ensure the delivery experience is high quality. So we think that the category itself lends itself to bringing people to our site and engaging them in a unique way. One thing that we can do with AI is help get more personalized for your style preferences. You know, I'm sure if the three of us were to pick an end table, we'd all pick different end tables. What we'd love to do is make sure that when we land on the site, we're serving up to each of us exactly that end table that we want. Generative AI allows us to do that in a faster, more nimble way. It also allows you to play around with discovery. So if you were to go on the app today into the Discover tab, you'd see a whole catalog of images and you can create more yourself if you want that are, you know, Jenny, I created that. Then allow you to shop the catalog based on the type of room that you're designing or the esthetic look that you're looking for. And I think that kind of engagement and interaction is really compelling in this category.
- [13:01]
Carol Massar
So I know, Kate, if we had asked Tim, like if we were going, you, me and him shopping for pillows, you know, he would say no more pillows. I don't know about your household, but that's what happens in my household.
- [13:14]
Kate Gulliver
Fortunately, people have an insatiable demand for pillows, so we will keep selling them.
- [13:18]
Matt Rogers
Thank God.
- [13:19]
Tim Stenovec
Thank God.
- [13:19]
Amanda Fraser
That's Wayfair CFO Kate Gulliver coming up.
- [13:22]
Carol Massar
Around the world of retail with so much who knows it like no other.
- [13:26]
Amanda Fraser
You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week. This is Bloomberg.
- [13:32]
Matt Rogers
This is Matt Rogers from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. This is Bowen Yang from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. What if your WI fi was more than just WI fi? What if your WI fi made everything in your whole house just work together better? Well, Xfinity WI Fi pretty much does exactly that. It's powered by their best, most elite high performing tech. Allow us to paint a very realistic example, everyone in your house, everyone is on their devices at the exact same time. Gaming, working, swiping, Right? Because of course they are. And the finale of your favorite show of all time of the week is on at the exact same moment. Well, you can boost the WI fi to your device with Xfinity. And have you ever asked yourself, what if my Wi fi could keep watch over my kids for me? Well, probably not, because that's a weird thing to ask yourself. But Xfinity Wi Fi has parenting skills even if you sometimes forget yours. Xfinity's like, don't worry, I'll monitor the WI Fi. It's completely proactive, fixing issues before they even happen. Bottom line, Xfinity is smart and reliable. You deserve the peace of mind of having WI Fi that's got your back. Xfinity Imagine that.
- [14:41]
Tim Stenovec
We believe in starting with your financial goals, not a formula. At Oppenheimer, we put the full strength of our long standing expertise to work understanding your life and and your ambitions
- [14:52]
Carol Massar
and designing the precise strategies that build
- [14:55]
Tim Stenovec
and protect your wealth with confidence across
- [14:58]
Kate Gulliver
this generation and the next.
- [15:01]
Tim Stenovec
Put the power of Oppenheimer thinking to work for you.
- [15:04]
Carol Massar
Wealth Management Capital Markets Investment banking At Amica Insurance, we know it's not just about where you're going, but who you go with. That's why we work even harder to protect what matters most. And as a mutual insurance company, we're built for our customers and prioritize your needs. Amica empathy is our best policy. Visit amica.com and get a quote today.
- [15:41]
Amanda Fraser
This is Bloomberg Business Week Daily with Carol Massar and Tim Stenovec on Bloomberg Radio.
- [15:48]
Carol Massar
We've been focusing a lot on the K shaped economy on Bloomberg Business Week Daily. Retail always gives a great look on this. Delinquency rates, for example, on loans ranging from mortgages to credit cards, rose to 4.8% of all outstanding U.S. household debt in the fourth quarter. That is the highest level since 2017, driven by higher defaults among low income and young borrowers.
- [16:11]
Amanda Fraser
These data come as US Retail sales unexpectedly stalled in December, suggesting consumers provided less firepower for the economy as the year drew to a close. Dana Telsey is founder, CEO and Chief Research Officer of Telsey Advisory Group. She joined us to discuss all things retail. One caveat we caught up with her before Walmart reported results more broadly.
- [16:32]
Carol Massar
Like Tim said, we did kind of want to start a little bit broad with you. I mean, we got US retail sales unexpectedly stalling in December, suggesting consumers provided less firepower for the economy as the year drew to a close on that print. Did your own analysis, Dana. You know, you do great channel checks and you have all your own research. Did it match up with what we saw?
- [16:54]
Dana Telsey
We saw a solid holiday season. We've seen four all the way through. Percent. It was weaker after Black Friday to Christmas. It only picked up like the week before Christmas. The lull in the middle was deeper than expected coming out of January to now, keep in mind, we've had terrible weather, you know, better from the Northeast and the Midwest. People getting out pretty tough. It was all about colder weather, goods, goods. So it's up and down, but I don't think anything is taking away from what we call the measured optimism in the consumer space. Whereas when you think about the events this year, Winter Olympics, America, 250, World cup all coming up, and tax refunds, which are just starting now, consumer has a lot of firepower to spend and we're watching carefully the lower end. We just came out with our credit monitor this week. The credit monitor, which shows delinquencies are still on the rise, bad debt being impacted. You have student loans out there. So it's still upticking, but not at a real accelerated pace. It's something to be mindful of.
- [17:56]
Amanda Fraser
When would you go from being mindful of it to being concerned about it?
- [17:59]
Dana Telsey
If I heard about a slowdown in sales from all the different types of retailers, I mean, I think this year, could it be a discretionary year? We've had legacy companies like Victoria's Secret, like Urban Outfitters, like the Gap, do better. Why? Because there's newness in product, newness in store designs, making it very compelling. So I'm watching some of these sales figures, figures to see that. Are they able to maintain the expectations? What's gone more into the back burner? The waning impact of tariffs. Tariffs will be an impact for the first quarter, but they won't be as big an impact through the year. And the continued focus on newness means companies are putting out newer products. You don't have a comparison. So the prices may be higher than they originally would have been.
- [18:41]
Carol Massar
I want to go back to the consumer credit picture and delinquencies because on the same day we got that retail sales report, we got delinquency rates on loans rising to 4.8% of all outstanding U.S. household debt in the fourth quarter. That was the highest level since 2017. I hear something like that. And that's almost 10 years. It makes me be like, whoa, wait, is that impressive? I mean, is it impressive? Like how do you, how do you make sense? And I think they talked a lot about delinquencies in mortgage payments, particularly in lower income zip codes, student loan delinquencies. Like that's a real factor.
- [19:12]
Dana Telsey
They are real factors. It's very important to watch. That's why, let's see what these tax refunds come in because what will it be used for? Some of the debt paydown that's out there.
- [19:20]
Carol Massar
But to be fair, like student loans, if you've got student debt, how much of you're going to get in a tax refund is really going to make a dent.
- [19:28]
Dana Telsey
It doesn't make as much a debt, but a lot of times parents will pay off some of those student loans. So it depends who's doing those payments of the loans.
- [19:35]
Carol Massar
Okay, what, just thinking about the cost
- [19:38]
Amanda Fraser
of education, how old do you think
- [19:41]
Carol Massar
by the time you go it'll be
- [19:42]
Tim Stenovec
a million dollars a year?
- [19:43]
Amanda Fraser
You know, just have the bots, be
- [19:44]
Dana Telsey
a plumber, be an electrician.
- [19:46]
Carol Massar
I'm just saying.
- [19:47]
Amanda Fraser
Okay, hey, I want to talk a little bit about the Olympics that are going on right now and sort of what it means in a world where media is so fractionated, you don't have the same appointment viewing that we had the same idea of, you know, the big companies getting in front of everyone. We had Nike CEO on last week talking about a return to ACG and making a big push at the Olympics. How do you watch an event like the Olympics when it comes to retail?
- [20:08]
Dana Telsey
I think when you think about retail and who, what brands are involved in the Olympics? I mean, Ralph Lauren, big time, you love it.
- [20:14]
Carol Massar
You talk about Ralph Lauren a lot.
- [20:16]
Dana Telsey
Yeah, well, you know, why? Full price. If you look at the average unit retail selling prices, it's going up. You have a smaller brand who is doing good things with Olympics. This is their second Olympics they've been involved with. Figs is outfitting the Team USA medical team. And that's something that they're becoming known for. I think there is awareness that comes from being part of the Olympics. I think people are watching the Olympics even though some of the different time zones, Winter Olympics, whether it's, whether it's figure skating, whether it's the luge, you name it. And there's a lot of good USA athletes that have done a really good job.
- [20:49]
Amanda Fraser
Does it still move product?
- [20:51]
Dana Telsey
Yes, it moves product and people want to be a part of it. Even just walk by store windows and you'll see product out there for the Olympics.
- [20:57]
Carol Massar
So against all of this, you know, the SAKS bankruptcy. I know it was expected. Eddie Bauer been around for a long time. I feel like it's been twisting in the winds for a while. Store closings of Allbirds. I mean I found my pair of Allbirds. I haven't been wearing them much but
- [21:12]
Dana Telsey
I mean Francesca's another one significant or it's just the cyclical nature, cyclical wave. When you think about what others are doing out there, more stores are opening their own brands. You have companies like Aritzia who's gaining share only 72 stores in the United States. So if old doesn't reinvent, they're going away. And that's why I mentioned before, look at Legacy that's reinventing Urban Outfitters, Victoria's Secret in the Gap.
- [21:37]
Carol Massar
What? No, it's fascinating to see because I agree with you that things are just going to change. Right. It doesn't mean when we see a closing it's going to be the end of retail.
- [21:48]
Dana Telsey
Well the other thing, talking about the retail real estate landlords, Simon Property, largest small developer in the country, just put out their results last week and you can hear it from all the other landlords out there. There is more demand for space than supply. So Even with the 57 or so sacks off fifth closings, the eight or nine full line closings, there's demand for this space.
- [22:09]
Carol Massar
Is it high end though? That's always demand when it comes to malls or not necessarily.
- [22:13]
Dana Telsey
Because you take a look at things, look at the off pricers, the TJ Maxx Ross stores, Burlington, they're each opening 100 stores a year. Restaurants are opening new stores. Look at the dollar stores, the dollar generals, dollar trees. They're also.
- [22:27]
Carol Massar
We just did a story about how they're opening increasingly in wealthier areas. And because the wealthier or higher income individuals are shopping at these stores, people
- [22:36]
Dana Telsey
like treasure hunts and that's what this gives them.
- [22:39]
Amanda Fraser
Okay, we're going all over.
- [22:40]
Carol Massar
I thought you were, I thought you were going to go to the ultimate treasure hunt.
- [22:43]
Amanda Fraser
No.
- [22:43]
Carol Massar
Which you know I love. But you're going.
- [22:45]
Amanda Fraser
We're not doing that yet. You mention. So I want to go back to Gap and I'm now hearing from like truly from influencers that Gap and you, you, I think you came in and told us that Gap is back.
- [22:55]
Dana Telsey
It's cool.
- [22:56]
Amanda Fraser
What, what has Gap done and been able to do in recent years to sort of like, you know, it'll never, I don't never say never. But the 90s for Gap were unbelievable.
- [23:05]
Dana Telsey
So now it's the parents and the kids. They attracted and the reason why how brands are getting recognized today. Look at how viral things can go with influencers, brand ambassadors. You look at Instagram, the regular person is now your new celebrity. Who you want to look like them, What Gap's done. The creative director of Zac Posen partnered with Richard Dixon, the cfo. They blended product and marketing. And what did it give them? Awareness. They did that with. Whether it's K pop music stars, all of a sudden you're doing that with different brands out there that they're making special collections for Gap and they're also updating the stores. Check out the store on 21st and 5th Avenue, which has the new look, Gap. It doesn't look like the old look Gap.
- [23:51]
Carol Massar
So where is retail going? Like, you know, I always think it's kind of wild. You go into a czar and you can check out yourself and like, you know, and part of me kind of likes that, you know, I can just do it. But where is retail going in terms of trends, in terms of technology, in terms of experience?
- [24:05]
Dana Telsey
I think overall where retail is going, it's where you want it to go. I think the personalized nature of retail, because of the data that companies have about your preferences, I think the AI learnings that are being put in place as to when you shop, what price you shop, what style you shop, and I think the marketing appeal of what's on Instagram, what's your favorites and what is celebrities favorites or the new celebrities are they become your favorites? I think it's moving faster than ever. It's made the supply chain of retailers become more embedded in being able to chase. And I think overall, you look at old brands becoming new again. Walk across the street to Bloomingdale's, there's more new brands than they've had in years.
- [24:48]
Carol Massar
I was just talking about that with a friend of mine who's just like we talked about the transformation of Bloomingdale's and against Saks, which is obviously struggling. One thing I wanna ask you, Amazon, like, I have noticed in stories and different things, how aggressive in terms of fashion, is that becoming a big deal for them?
- [25:07]
Dana Telsey
Not as big a deal yet. They're still essentials. But what you are seeing is brands want their own Amazon shops on Amazon. Basically, what brands want today is they want where is the customer so they can interact.
- [25:19]
Carol Massar
Even though Amazon might copy, like what's popular. I mean, they have so much data on where people are buying.
- [25:25]
Dana Telsey
Why do people buy Levi's jeans or buy Calvin Klein jeans or wherever people want the brand and the Fit. So they'll always be private label brands. Provide the halo.
- [25:35]
Amanda Fraser
Can we talk big picture a little bit with, with like a company like Lululemon, for example, going through CEO transition, you have Chip Wilson out there saying, you know, you need to. I have good ideas for this company. You have some product failures that our Bloomberg News team has reported on with this idea of some of the leg ratings being see through. Is that brand on the outs?
- [25:59]
Dana Telsey
The brand, obviously, if you're not going to have product that people want, that's a problem. But overall, you can't say it's on the outs because look at the amount of volume that it does. With over $10 billion in sales. You look at the other activewear brands and they're not doing nearly that volume. And there's work that needs to be done to reinvent. I always call it to be at the top of a retail roller coaster. You need to reinvent, remerchandise and rejuvenate. Time for Lulu to do that. And I was just out there recently. New product is coming for this spring. Let's see how it does.
- [26:28]
Carol Massar
So what about. Okay, so Walmart's the big focus this week in terms of earnings. Next week we get Home Depot, tjx. Week after we get Target, Costco, Macy's and a whole host of others throughout the next couple of weeks. Here. Tjx again, like, I know this is fine.
- [26:44]
Amanda Fraser
Here we go.
- [26:44]
Dana Telsey
They should be.
- [26:45]
Carol Massar
I like the Treasure Hunt.
- [26:46]
Dana Telsey
What did I do? They should be a barn burner. The other thing that's new for them, they're increasing their spend on marketing. And as they've been increasing their marketing spend, they're seeing more traffic in the stores. So look what we talked about with Gap Marketing and product. Look what you got with TJ going on. No one would have ever thought that marketing would be as big a deal for them. It's turning into revenues. And let's not forget the other thing TJ has. They have Home Goods. Home Goods is doing amazing. They have the most diversification of product assortment. I think 2026 looks to be a very good year for TJ.
- [27:19]
Carol Massar
What's so interesting, though? They don't really have an online presence.
- [27:22]
Dana Telsey
No.
- [27:23]
Carol Massar
It's like just fascinating that they really don't because everybody.
- [27:25]
Dana Telsey
You gotta go to the store.
- [27:26]
Carol Massar
You have to go to the store
- [27:28]
Amanda Fraser
because you can't really like, find out what's, you know, you can't do the
- [27:31]
Carol Massar
Treasure hunt vigili online.
- [27:32]
Dana Telsey
They love it. Yeah. And you have very loyal customers who'll be there on Tuesdays and Fridays. They know when the new merchandise comes in. And frankly, having off price only gives iconic heritage to the full price merchandise because you know you're getting a deal on some of these brands. And look at the brands TJ has. They're better late.
- [27:51]
Amanda Fraser
That was Dana Telsey, founder, CEO and chief research Officer of Telsey Advisory Group. For the full conversation, because we did talk everything from Amazon and Bloomingdale's to Nike, tjx, Carol's favorite Walmart and more, check out our podcast feed.
- [28:05]
Matt Rogers
What's that to love?
- [28:06]
Amanda Fraser
You love it.
- [28:07]
Matt Rogers
I do.
- [28:08]
Carol Massar
It's all about the hunt.
- [28:08]
Amanda Fraser
It's old school. You know, you don't really find those deals online.
- [28:11]
Carol Massar
I know.
- [28:11]
Tim Stenovec
It's just kind of fun.
- [28:12]
Carol Massar
It's a way. It's kind of a. They talk about retail therapy.
- [28:15]
Tim Stenovec
I'm just gonna say. All right.
- [28:17]
Carol Massar
Still ahead on Bloomberg Businessweek, how executives have worked to stay out of the fray of public political commentary.
- [28:24]
Amanda Fraser
This is Bloomberg.
- [28:26]
Matt Rogers
This is Matt Rogers from Los Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. This is Bowen Yang from Los Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. What if your wifi was more than just WI fi? What if your WI fi made everything in your whole better? Well, Xfinity WI fi pretty much does exactly that. It's powered by their best, most elite high performing tech. Allow us to paint a very realistic example. Everyone in your house, everyone is on their devices at the exact same time. Gaming, working, swiping. Right. Because of course they are. And the finale of your favorite show of all time of the week is on at the exact same moment. Well, you can boost the WI fi to your device with Xfinity. And have you ever asked yourself, what if my wifi could keep watch over my kids for me? Well, probably not, because that's a weird thing to ask yourself. But Xfinity WI fi has parenting skills, even if you sometimes forget yours. Xfinity's like, don't worry, I'll monitor the WI fi. It's completely proactive, fixing issues before they even happen. Bottom line, Xfinity is smart and reliable. You deserve the peace of mind of having WI fi that's got your back. Xfinity. Imagine that
- [29:35]
Amanda Fraser
at Oppenheimer we're proven because we're grounded in discipline. For 145 years, we've been building and protecting wealth through every market cycle with precision, clarity and the courage to think boldly beyond the moment. This is what market tested legacy looks like for this generation and the next. Put the power of Oppenheimer thinking to work for you. Wealth management, capital markets, investment banking
- [30:04]
Carol Massar
At Amica Insurance, we know it's not just about where you're going, but who you go with. That's why we work even harder to protect what matters most. And as a mutual insurance company, we're built for our customers and prioritize your needs. Amica empathy is our best policy. Visit amica.com and get a quote today.
- [30:34]
Amanda Fraser
This is Bloomberg Business Week Daily with Carol Massar and Tim Stenovec on Bloomberg Radio.
- [30:42]
Carol Massar
Once President Trump was inaugurated in 2025, it became clear that corporations would have to please not just their shareholders, but also his administration, lest they be targeted for lawsuits or regulatory reprisals or by the rage of the MAGA movement at large.
- [30:59]
Amanda Fraser
Just think back to that inauguration and who was there from the business world. As Bloomberg Businessweek's Amanda Mole writes, quote, the Trump administration's actions on a whole host of issues, but especially its brutal treatment of suspected immigrants, have the general public looking for prominent people and institutions to use their power or influence like they did just a few years ago.
- [31:20]
Carol Massar
She adds, this time, though, the country has been met with near total silence and has been left to speculate about why we got more from Amanda and the era of the good corporate citizen.
- [31:31]
Amanda Fraser
If we think back to just a few years ago, the pride floats, diversity and training initiatives, the ESG stuff, investing, hiring, that was kind of a blip. I learned from your story in the history of the role of a corporation in life. That's not really what corporations have done in American history, right?
- [31:53]
Tim Stenovec
It's easy to have a bit of recency bias about how corporations act relative to society. But when you look at sort of like the long sweep of corporate history, and I talked to an economic historian about this, this for the column, companies generally try to advance their own interests, which sounds obvious to say, but it can be hard to remember that because companies have worked to have a louder and louder voice in culture, in politics, in all these areas of our lives that are not so centrally focused on their own businesses, whatever that means. Business might be depending on the company. So, you know, before relatively recently, companies just sort of sought to stay out of politics in general because it was bad for business, but to quietly, privately sort of advance their own interests politically through lobbying and all the ways that we're used to.
- [32:48]
Carol Massar
So it's kind of like, you know, it's funny, I think they're all your
- [32:50]
Amanda Fraser
tech executives, by the way, Carol, think
- [32:53]
Carol Massar
about the Gilpet age, right, and the Robberback. And so on and so forth. And I think we have this romantic notion of the company town and the executives taking care of everybody. And I'm sure that was the case in some places. But I think maybe we are being a little bit naive about how it used to be or no.
- [33:11]
Tim Stenovec
Well, the robber barons are actually an interesting case because this is where a lot of these sort of battles were worked out. Because during the time of the robber barons, you also had the rise of the legendary. You had really active, really powerful, really militant unions in the United States. So the robber barons not only adopted the 40 hour workweek and things like that in order to. In response to fight from labor, but they also did things like establish libraries and museums and do all of these get into the creation of the public good in order to sort of burnish their reputations. Because there was like an active, organized counterpart that was trying to reveal them to be something other than, you know, entirely pro social. So they did this thing because of public. All of those things because of public outcry.
- [34:03]
Carol Massar
Well, it's interesting because I think, you know, some folks would say some of these billionaires and successful, you know, executives, they certainly donate. They do, you know, philanthropy, and they're doing good things for society. I think, though, and I want to get into your story. And we started talking before we even went on air. It's just this idea of go to Minneapolis and what is it that finally gets executives to kind of band together? Is it the first death or shooting by ICE agents? Is it the second one? Is it the third one? It's just like, what's the bar for making people react? And even when the reactions happen, it's maybe not as strong as we think it should be.
- [34:43]
Tim Stenovec
Right. Historically, we see a pretty high bar for companies to weigh in on politics. Like one of the classic examples is that During World War II, American companies were pretty happy to do business with both sides of the war until Pearl Harbor. And then it was our interests are with the Allies. And then it was all hands on deck for the American side side of the war. Cause there was an American side of the war at that point. And you also saw this during the civil rights movement that companies sort of stayed quiet on this until TV coverage of police brutality in the south was so horrific and the country was so horrified that they couldn't sit on the sidelines anymore. So you have that sort of happening again now. But people in corporate roles of corporate influence are even more shy than they were I think, in those eras to weigh in on either side, because we had two videos, videotaped killings that, you know, everybody in the country probably saw as part of at least. And only then did we get like a very tepid statement from the Minnesota Chamber of Commerce with 60 local companies signing onto it. We didn't have like, we haven't had much national conversation from people of enormous influence in the business community about any of this.
- [36:01]
Carol Massar
Like, you think about Davos, right? Everybody was gas gathered there like there's a place. But I don't know that there was like things that came out.
- [36:08]
Amanda Fraser
Not about this. No, not at all. You know, you mentioned, you, you talk about World War II, the Civil Rights movement. You also write about apartheid and what happened with, with the jailing of Nelson Mandela in South Africa. After all of those historical events, you have something in the US in 2010 happen. Citizens United versus the federal election Commission. Talk about what that does in that Supreme Court case, does to change the role of a corporation as a citizen.
- [36:34]
Tim Stenovec
Right. So what we see both historically and right now is corporations sort of trying to, you know, wiggle out of this mess by saying, we're not political, we don't have a role in politics. We are here to serve, you know, our customers, to run our business profitably for our shareholders, and that is it. But in 2010, you have the citizens, you know, decision. And this was like the sort of culmination of a genuine 40 year process in which corporate America decided they wanted a more active role in democracy, they wanted a more active role in politics. This started in 1971 with the Powell memo. And the author of that memo became a Supreme Court justice just a few years later. So you have this process of the sort of like pro business arguments being put into academia, into the intelligentsia and pro business judges being put on courts. And that leads to this decision where it is now pretty easy for corporations to fund in a pretty limitless way, political candidates. So corporations have a really loud voice in our politics whether or not we always realize it. And so which I think makes it extra notable that they're being quiet right now.
- [37:54]
Carol Massar
So I love the title. So President Trump is called bluff on the era of good corporate citizen. The president has exposed an ugly truth about corporations. They're no longer even pretending to be good citizens. So it's an important point. Like it's like peel back or, you know, pull back the curtain. Right, right. Of not being political yet there is so much money in politics and we often talk about this, that who's really represented when you go to Washington? Is it the corporations who have very Very deep pockets and have this ability to certainly get the attention of lawmakers. One of the other things I want to bring up, though, is something I think about a lot is the fiduciary responsibility, though, of a leader to not get in the crosshairs.
- [38:34]
Amanda Fraser
I was thinking of your comment about this as soon as, you know, when Amanda was talking earlier, because you said, as Carol often alludes to, is there, is there any upside to actually weighing in here as a CEO?
- [38:45]
Carol Massar
Right, right. You've got this to protect your company and do every take actions that are in the best interests and protecting yourself.
- [38:51]
Amanda Fraser
And like, doing what somebody thinks is, quote, the right thing to do is not a metric that Wall street judges the performance of a company on.
- [38:58]
Tim Stenovec
Right. Yeah. I think that right now you have a lot of executives looking at the situation, both political and sort of, sort of social in the country and going, do we have more of a, Do I as a person even have more of a responsibility to my company shareholders, or do I have more of a responsibility to society as someone with influence?
- [39:18]
Carol Massar
Right.
- [39:18]
Tim Stenovec
And, you know, I think one thing that is different about now than about 2020 is that the Trump administration is willing to use the levers of power in order to cajole or punish businesses that do or do not do things that the administration prefers. I think some executives are probably just straightforward Trump supporters and they don't speak out because they like the administration's policies. Some probably don't like the administration's policies and don't speak out because they're afraid of reprisal. And if the government acts in such a way that it harms their company, then they probably haven't done their job as they understand it according to their contract, because their, you know, ultimate responsibility in their role is to their shareholders. So if they're doing things that they know could get them punished, then I think that that is the, is the particular calculus that a lot of executives are doing right now.
- [40:15]
Carol Massar
You know, I'm just thinking if someone's listening, we're running out of time. But it's like, oh, you know, I can just see the emails or whether we're being, oh, you'll get it, so forth. But it's. Why is this, before we wrap up 40 seconds, important to point out? And is it that companies spend a lot of money in lobbying? Like, what is that? What is your big takeaway, you think here?
- [40:36]
Tim Stenovec
Well, I think that it's important to understand companies as institutions of power and influence in American society. Business journalism is interesting and is worthwhile because these companies are, are important in the country. And discussing them like they're important means being serious about, like, the types of influence they wield, even if it's political influence.
- [41:01]
Amanda Fraser
That's Amanda Moll, senior reporter for Bloomberg Businessweek.
- [41:04]
Carol Massar
I have to say, Tim, you know, and we talked about this with Amanda, I think, because we've, we've had guests on, we've had leaders on, we've had consulting firms that advise, you know, C suite leadership about why everybody's so quiet. And I think it largely has to do with nobody wants to be on the president's radar, Right. And all of a sudden come up in a social media post or a comment out of the Oval Office. And I kind of get it. If you're a publicly held company, you do have a fiduciary responsibility to think about what's best for your company, what's best for investors. But it still feels a little uncomfortable.
- [41:41]
Amanda Fraser
You know, I, I'm gonna out myself as, you know, watching some other shows on the, on the television. But it reminds me of an interview that I saw Chris Christie give last week maybe or the week before. He was on the Bill Maher show on hbo and he talked about other Republican politicians because Chris Christie has been outspoken about President Trump. And Chris Christie's not in office right now. Former governor of New Jersey, your former governor, he, but he said that privately he hears from Republicans in the green room when he goes on TV and he says they say stuff to him that is very different than what they go and say publicly.
- [42:26]
Carol Massar
All right, folks, that wraps up the first hour of the weekend edition of Bloomberg businessweek from Bloomberg Radio. Coming up in our next hour, Bad Bunny's halftime show at the super bowl translating into business for one company that might actually surprise you.
- [42:39]
Amanda Fraser
Also, from a Ritz Carlton reserve in Saudi Arabia to the world's first and only five star cruise, we've got the Forbes Travel Guide 2026 star award, also
- [42:49]
Carol Massar
monster Jam, Disney on Ice, and so much more. And so we get a good read into how families are actually spending their
- [42:56]
Amanda Fraser
free time and maybe their discretionary income.
- [42:59]
Tim Stenovec
Yes, that's a good point.
- [43:00]
Amanda Fraser
It's Bloomberg businessweek. That's Carol Massar. I'm Tim Stanback. Stay with us. Today's top stories and global business headlines are coming up right now.
- [43:19]
Matt Rogers
This is Matt Rogers from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. This is Bowen Yang from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. What if your WI Fi was more than just WI Fi? What if your WI Fi made everything in your whole house just work together better. Well, exc Xfinity WI Fi pretty much does exactly that. It's powered by their best, most elite, high performing tech. Allow us to paint a very realistic example. Everyone in your house, everyone is on their devices at the exact same time. Gaming, working, swiping, right? Because of course they are. And the finale of your favorite show of all time of the week is on at the exact same moment. Well, you can boost the Wi Fi to your device with Xfinity. And have you ever asked yourself, what if my wifi could keep watch over my kids for me? Well, probably not because that's a weird thing to ask yourself. But Xfinity WI Fi has parenting skills even if you sometimes forget yours. Xfinity's like don't worry, I'll monitor the WI Fi. It's completely proactive, fixing issues before they even happen. Bottom line, Xfinity is smart and reliable. You deserve the peace of mind of having WI Fi that's got your back. Xfinity Imagine that financial growth begins long
- [44:29]
Kate Gulliver
before the first investment.
- [44:31]
Tim Stenovec
It comes from understanding what you're building towards, what's at stake, and what success looks like for you. At Oppenheimer, we bring bold thinking guided
- [44:40]
Kate Gulliver
by the full strength of our expertise
- [44:43]
Tim Stenovec
to put capital to work building and protecting wealth that lasts generations. Put the power of Oppenheimer thinking to work for you.
- [44:51]
Carol Massar
Wealth management, capital markets, Investment Banking At Amica Insurance, your time and peace of mind matter. Bundle your auto and home coverage with us and enjoy safe that make life a little easier. As a mutual insurance company, we're built for our customers. We prioritize your needs and are here for you when you need us. Amica Empathy is our best policy. Visit amica.com and get a quote today.
- [45:28]
Amanda Fraser
This is Bloomberg Business Week Daily reporting
- [45:31]
Tim Stenovec
from the magazine that helps global leaders stay ahead with insight on the people, companies and trends shaping today's complex economy.
- [45:40]
Amanda Fraser
Plus global business, finance and tech news as it happens. Bloomberg Business Week Daily with Carol Massar
- [45:47]
Tim Stenovec
and Tim Stenovec on Bloomberg Radio.
- [45:50]
Carol Massar
Plenty ahead in our second hour of the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week, including a look at online education, how Coursera and Babel are making the grade when it comes to customers, customers and expansion.
- [46:01]
Amanda Fraser
Plus the family owned company behind the Ringling Brothers and Barnum and Bailey Monster Jam Disney on Ice and how families are spending and using discretionary funds and discretionary time.
- [46:12]
Carol Massar
I gotta tell you, I got a little nephew. It's actually my niece's son so I don't know what you Call grand nephew. But really into those monster jams. Oh yeah, the monster trucks and stuff. And has gone with my grandfather. How do they get you?
- [46:28]
Amanda Fraser
Oh, what Earplugs.
- [46:29]
Tim Stenovec
I know.
- [46:29]
Amanda Fraser
Selling the earplugs at the because it's so loud.
- [46:32]
Carol Massar
Sounds like someone who's been there.
- [46:33]
Amanda Fraser
Yeah. Didn't bring earplugs, but we bought some. Also some of the world's finest hotels and the only five star cruise. We talked to the woman behind standards and ratings for the Forbes Travel Guide.
- [46:43]
Carol Massar
First up this hour,
- [46:50]
Amanda Fraser
Bad Bunny's super bowl halftime performance not only turned heads for the music, dancing and costumes, but also for pushing people to learn Spanish. We caught up with Julie Hanson, chief revenue officer and US CEO of Babel, on the surge her company saw after the halftime show.
- [47:05]
Tim Stenovec
Normally we have about 62% of our daily signups are people learning Spanish during the Super Bowl. Almost 85% during that halftime show. Overall, signups were up just about 4 downloads. Up 3x. Oh my God. And you know, it actually is sustaining. Excuse me. So like Spanish remains by far the hot is over at like 78% sign ups still. So it's really having a phenomenal effect. Way beyond like we knew it would be big. We had no idea it'd be like this.
- [47:39]
Amanda Fraser
In the past have have big cultural events sparked signups such as this or is this unprecedented in the history of ball?
- [47:46]
Tim Stenovec
Yes, but nothing quite like this, especially in the U.S. you know, just so instantaneous and so significant.
- [47:58]
Amanda Fraser
What's the staying power, though? I mean, we all know what it's like to have New Year's resolutions and say I'm going to do this, I'm going to learn this new language and then you kind of fall off a cliff after a few weeks.
- [48:08]
Matt Rogers
For sure.
- [48:09]
Tim Stenovec
We will see the thing. I like our odds though, because two factors together here. One, just the growth of Spanish language in music and culture is really sustained and also again, significant. So that's kind of creating this ongoing interest in the topic. And two, the early year cohort. I mean, January in particular, but we're almost in January. That is by far the strongest cohort. There is something about that beginning of the year, year, New Year's resolution, new you. This is the best, most engaged group of users that we sign up all year. Like 20% more engagement than in other months. So if they can keep that February intensity, the January intensity and the February, you know, interest from Bad Bunny, it's a pretty good combination.
- [48:56]
Amanda Fraser
Yeah.
- [48:56]
Carol Massar
How do you gauge, like, is there a way when somebody signs up, how can you or is it just we'll see how long they stick with it?
- [49:04]
Tim Stenovec
I mean, the proof is in that pudding, for sure. But we do see signs when they sign up. I mean, when people tell us what their motivation is. And also they'll tell us how much they think they're willing to. How much time they're willing to invest. And that's an important topic to us because we're, you know, the. The point of Babel is we want to actually teach the language. So we really try to respect people's time, and we want the time with baby travel to be time well spent, so we pay attention to that particular metric. But interestingly, in January, we saw that travel, as was the number one motivation by far. 43% of our January signups cited travel as their reason. And that's up like 17% year over year.
- [49:47]
Carol Massar
What languages in particular?
- [49:49]
Tim Stenovec
Spanish and English. And, you know, following that is French, French, Italian, German. We teach 14 languages. But those are your top five.
- [49:59]
Carol Massar
Top four, you know. Yeah, it's kind of fascinating. Does it also just say to you that more consumers are traveling? I'm just crying. You know, we're always trying to figure out what consumers are up to in an economy where not everybody benefits equally. Is there a read for you on the US Consumer based on, you know, that they want to learn more languages because they're traveling more, or. I'm just curious, what are you seeing?
- [50:21]
Tim Stenovec
Are we just cold and we want to go somewhere warm, given this winter? On the US Side, we still see the travel as a strong motivator, but actually, for the US Side, it can be even a stronger motivator to connect with friends and family. And again, as Spanish grows in the country, that becomes even a more important impact. But it is interesting to see the worldwide surge in travel interest that we're seeing in our data. I'm not sure I knew that was coming because travel has been on the upswing for several years now.
- [50:54]
Amanda Fraser
Yeah, well, you said you didn't necessarily know if that was coming. A lot of investors seem like they didn't know that the AI revolution was coming as quickly as it has. T Mobile launched real time AI services on its wireless network, including live translation during phone calls for over 50 languages. Are we entering a world where technology will allow us to just speak our own languages and we will not need to learn other languages? I know that's a crazy thing for me to ask, but, like, this is the world we live in.
- [51:25]
Tim Stenovec
Well, we agree that, I mean, AI translation is real, it's powerful. It's very useful, but it only solves kind of immediate communication needs. And by the way, it does so with a lack of which is not the most fluid way to connect with someone or converse. So we think that an LLM can translate any conversation, but it can't give you the joy of understanding a joke in another language or the feeling of truly belonging in another culture. Translation solves the moment. Learning transforms the person. So we think that learning a language is here to stay as long as people have languages.
- [52:06]
Amanda Fraser
That was Julie Hanson, Chief Revenue Officer and US CEO of Babbel. Languages are just one aspect of the online learning ecosystem. There's also the software used by colleges and Hubs for testing practical and professional educational preparedness.
- [52:19]
Carol Massar
Two of those platforms, Coursera and Udemy, announced plans for an all stock merger at the end of 2025. Now they're working on integrating the two companies together. We caught up with Greg Hart, President and CEO of Coursera Coursera in San Francisco.
- [52:32]
Amanda Fraser
Greg, I want to start with the merger. Carol mentioned it in December. An all stock merger between Coursera and Udemy. What is the status of that? Right now we understand it's going to close in the second part of the year. The integration, how does it go? What does it mean in terms of the customer and user experience and who's the boss?
- [52:52]
Matt Rogers
Thank you Tim for the question. So we are going through the regulatory approval process right now. Nothing to share on that front, but we're moving through the paces and then we'll hope to move through that and then go through shareholder approval. In terms of who's the boss, first of all, the the customer is always the boss in terms of the actual governance of the company. I will be the CEO of the combined company and we are excited about that combination because of the opportunity to bring together, you know, two businesses that are really quite complementary. Udemy the companies are roughly the same size in revenue, so the combined revenue of the companies would be about 1.5 billion DOL dollars for 2025 with about 10% adjusted EBITDA margins. Free Synergies we also announced at signing that we would deliver $115 million of synergies post close within the first two years. And so a nice improvement in the operating margin that we have as a combined company. We are focused as we go through the planning process on exactly what that integrated company and platform will look like. So how do we think about pricing and PAC and promotions? Of course, how do we think about the leadership team and then how do we bring the companies together to really Drive not only, you know, better margins through the synergies, but also really, over time, drive much higher revenue growth and do a better job of addressing the massive market opportunity in front of the companies.
- [54:25]
Amanda Fraser
Greg, there have been many examples of mergers that have been announced that haven't actually gone through for a whole multitude of reasons. Some of them have been regulatory, some of them have involved other factors. What happens if this doesn't go through?
- [54:38]
Matt Rogers
Well, I'm very confident that it will. I mean, we operate in the education space, which is a massive space, you know, 2 trillion plus dollars that encompasses physical education, so K through 12 universities, vocational schools. It encompasses the online sector that we happen to be a part of and Udemy also is a part of. And then of course, it encompasses all the other ways that people learn today and increasingly that is through like LLMs or YouTube or TikTok. We believe we have a very differentiated offering, but we are a very, very small player within that massive space. And we believe that the combination actually delivers more value to every one of our constituents, to our learners. They'll get access to more content. Not only the 375 different university and industry partners that Coursera has, but the 85,000 plus subject matter experts that Udemy's content creator community has. And so it'll bring more choice, more learning opportunity. It'll be better for our content creators because they'll have access to a worldwide learner audience that's approaching 300 million registered learners across the two companies. And it's better for our enterprise customers because we're able to deliver them the breadth of that content coming from that content creator network across Udemy and course.
- [56:03]
Carol Massar
Sarah, hey, listen, one of the things, well, first of all, I have to just follow up on the deal. The combination with you and udemy. Is it still, though, you said you're pretty confident about regulatory, Greg, so maybe still on track to close this deal in the second part of 2026.
- [56:18]
Matt Rogers
Yes, we've heard nothing that would change our belief that it will close, you know, by the second half of 2026 and remain confident in getting all the regulatory approvals we need to do.
- [56:28]
Carol Massar
So one of the things I thought, interesting, I always think about your business. You mentioned university industry, industry partners. You've got these subject experts. How are people most using it? Is it your corporate partnerships where people want retraining for their employees? Is it people on their own? Is it people who are just interested about different topics, like tell us where the growth is, Is it all of it or certain parts of it?
- [56:51]
Matt Rogers
Fantastic. Question, Carl. So our business is Coursera, an independent company. We are 2/3 consumer, 1/3 enterprise. From a revenue perspective, Udemy is the inverse. They are 2/3 Enterprise, 1/3 Consumer. For both companies, there is a huge focus on and growth in technology and specifically AI right now. And so for Coursera, last year we saw enrollments in Gen AI related content at a rate of 15 enrollments per minute. In 2024, that was only 8 enrollments per minute. And so a real burgeoning interest that I believe will continue in 20 as well. And we are really focused on delivering not just learning, but delivering skills so that people can advance their careers. 86% of the learners who come to Coursera come here to advance their careers. And so we are very focused on delivering them skills that they can use to advance their careers and that they can demonstrate, you know, real mastery of as they are in the workforce.
- [57:57]
Tim Stenovec
Force.
- [57:57]
Carol Massar
Hey, Greg, really quickly, 30 seconds.
- [58:00]
Amanda Fraser
That was Greg Hart, president and CEO, of course.
- [58:02]
Carol Massar
Sarah, you're listening to Bloomberg Businessweek. Coming up, we hear from the CEO of the company behind some of the biggest live events in the world. In fact, behind the Greatest show on Earth.
- [58:12]
Amanda Fraser
Think Ringling Brothers and Barnum and Bailey, Monster Jam and Disney on Ice.
- [58:16]
Carol Massar
This is Bloomberg.
- [58:19]
Matt Rogers
This is Matt Rogers from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Hill. This is Bowen Yang from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. What if your WI fi was more than just WI fi? What if your WI fi made everything in your whole house just work together better? Well, Xfinity WI Fi pretty much does exactly that. It's powered by their best, most elite high performing tech. Allow us to paint a very realistic example. Everyone in your house, everyone is on their devices at the exact same time, gaming, working, swiping. Right? Because of course they are. And the finale of your favorite show of all time of the week is on at exact same moment. Well, you can boost the WI fi to your device with Xfinity. And have you ever asked yourself, what if my WI fi could keep watch over my kids for me? Well, probably not, because that's a weird thing to ask yourself. But Xfinity WI Fi has parenting skills, even if you sometimes forget yours. Xfinity's like, don't worry, I'll monitor the WI Fi. It's completely proactive, fixing issues before they even happen. Bottom line, Xfinity is smart and reliable. You deserve the peace of mind of having WI Fi that's got your back. Xfinity. Imagine that
- [59:28]
Amanda Fraser
at Oppenheimer. We're proven because we're grounded in discipline. For 145 years, we've been building and protecting wealth through every market cycle with precision, clarity and the courage to think boldly beyond the moment. This is what market tested legacy looks like for this generation and the next. Put the power of Oppenheimer thinking to work for you. Wealth management Capital markets Investment banking
- [59:57]
Carol Massar
At Amica Insurance, we know it's not just what's inside your home that matters, it's who you share it with. That's why we work even harder to protect it. And as a mutual insurance company, we're built for our customers. We prioritize your needs and are here for you when you need us. Amica Empathy is our best policy. Visit amica.com and get a quote today.
- [60:28]
Amanda Fraser
This is Bloomberg Business Week Daily with Carol Massar and Tim Stanovec on Bloomberg Radio.
- [60:35]
Carol Massar
A new year and we continue to track how consumers are doing amid economic data that points to some stress for individuals when it comes to buying things or spending on experiences.
- [60:46]
Amanda Fraser
That's where one guest from this past week comes in. Live events is her company's focus. It's behind Ringling Brothers and Barnum and Bailey, Monster Jam, Disney on Ice, Monster Energy, AMA Supercross and the Super Motocross World Championship.
- [61:00]
Carol Massar
Sounds like a lot of fun. Hey, we're talking about all the stuff that Feld Entertainment does. It is family owned and operated. And we caught up with Juliet Feld Grossman. She is CEO.
- [61:11]
Amanda Fraser
Let's talk experiences. Carol, you know, I think that, I think that we're the greatest show on earth.
- [61:16]
Carol Massar
Well, we are, but, but there's another one. There's another one we could share this space.
- [61:21]
Amanda Fraser
Live events is our next guest's focus. Her company is behind the Ringling Brothers and Barnum and Bailey, Monster Jam, Disney on Ice, Monster Energy, AMA Supercross, and so much more. We're talking about Feld Entertainment. It's family owned and operated. And Juliet Feld Grossman is with us. She's CEO of Feld Entertainment. She joins us here in the Bloomberg Interactive Brokers studio. Welcome. How are you?
- [61:42]
Juliet Feld Grossman
Great. Thanks for having me on today.
- [61:44]
Amanda Fraser
So you're actually in New York for a reason. Because of a big opening at the Barclays Center. The scale of what goes into your productions is just mind blowing, I think for a lot of people. We're going to talk about some of those, but first we want to talk to you about the economy and what you see because a lot of the experiences are discretionary spending. And you know, this is what we talked to you about last time and the way that consumers are being more choosy with what they're spending money on. What are you seeing across your portfolio right now?
- [62:11]
Juliet Feld Grossman
It's very interesting. We tend to be a bellwether on the economy, as you said, because consumer spending on entertainment is completely discretionary. And as we looked at the end of last year, there was a lot. There was reduced spending on entertainment across the economy. We could see it in other, you know, credit card data that we review. And we saw it as, well, reflect in our business. And what we do is, you know, we try to drive that urgency because we're in a different market every single week. We also introduced a number of seasonal offerings. So we have a holiday pre show with Disney on Ice that adds that value for the consumer. But then as we came into this year and we came out of the, you know, holiday spending period where people are buying gifts and they have other travel going on and things that they've got to spend on, we're seeing it's cold in a lot of markets across the US that people want to get out, they want to do stuff with their families, and they're coming to see us. And so business has been very strong this year and we're excited to be in that place.
- [63:12]
Carol Massar
So up over last year.
- [63:13]
Juliet Feld Grossman
Yes.
- [63:14]
Carol Massar
Wow, that's interesting. Okay, so tells you what's the average speaker. Give us an idea of when, you know, we often talk about going to a baseball game or a football game or a concert. Like, it's so expensive. But just give us an idea. Family of four, they go out.
- [63:30]
Juliet Feld Grossman
So for our events across the board, and there's a wide spectrum of what you can spend on one of our experiences with VIP upsells and with merchandise and all of the other things. But on average, our experiences are about $40 per person. And for a family of four coming, you know, you can, you can calculate what that is. One of the big changes that we've seen in the past years, there was regulation that went into place last summer around all in pricing. And that didn't only affect ticketing, it also affected rental cars and hotels as well. And so for the consumer, it's. It's a very good thing. It's a positive thing that they're seeing the whole price up front, but they're not used to that, that. And so they are adapting to understanding that what they're seeing on the first page of their ticket purchase process is actually the price that they'll be seeing at the end with taxes.
- [64:23]
Amanda Fraser
So what about when Once they get to that event and the money that they spend at these events. I was looking at Carol shared with me a picture of her daughter at the circus many years ago. Yes. And she was holding this stuffed animal, and I was like, I bet you bought that stuffed animal at the circus.
- [64:39]
Carol Massar
Circus we did.
- [64:41]
Amanda Fraser
So. So. So the spending, the spending that happens at these events, that. That can sometimes, you know, when you add in food, when you add in souvenirs, that can sometimes exceed the ticket price.
- [64:53]
Juliet Feld Grossman
Well, we have a wide range of offerings and products. And one thing you should also know is that all of our consumer products that we sell, whether it's at Disney on Ice, Monster Jam, or Ringling, are actually custom design, exclusive to our experience. And we oversee the manufacturing of those. And we also have a product guarantee on them, which many people don't know, and a 247 customer service hotline. So we really stand behind the products that we put out there, and we feel they're, you know, high value, even though, you know, the expectation often coming to event is different.
- [65:27]
Amanda Fraser
Where are those products made?
- [65:29]
Juliet Feld Grossman
Many of them are made in China. We also have some products made in India, Vietnam, and in the US So
- [65:35]
Amanda Fraser
you must have been hit pretty hard with tariffs.
- [65:37]
Juliet Feld Grossman
Yes, it has been significant to us in our direct purchasing on consumer products and also in show equipment. And then we see it through the consumer spending, where they're getting hit in their own overall spending.
- [65:51]
Amanda Fraser
So on the part that you sell to consumers, how much of the tariffs did you absorb versus raising prices?
- [65:59]
Juliet Feld Grossman
One of the things that we really looked at at was our product assortment. So the tariffs were not applied, like, uniformly across all products coming in. So there were certain categories that already had a base tariff that was higher or lower. So we looked at the mix of our assortment to try to optimize for items that had a lower overall tariff impact because we couldn't pass the whole impact onto the consumer, just didn't make sense in terms of their, you know, price sensitivity.
- [66:33]
Carol Massar
Tell us about, like, your world and putting together these shows, whether it's the circus, whether it's Monster Jam. You guys were talking, I think, about the trucks before we got in. I've got a little grand nephew who is totally into them. But what, like the. The logistics of putting this stuff on. But there's labor, there's lots of people involved. There's just a lot of things. So just give us an idea. I mean, these, like, these Monster Jam
- [66:58]
Amanda Fraser
monster trucks, they're huge.
- [66:59]
Carol Massar
Like, what is even. Like, I'm always curious, like, what it takes to build one of these. How long, what it costs? Like, I don't know.
- [67:07]
Amanda Fraser
Can Carol drive one?
- [67:08]
Matt Rogers
That's another question she asked.
- [67:10]
Amanda Fraser
Can I?
- [67:10]
Carol Massar
But just tell us a little bit more, like, about your world and what goes on.
- [67:14]
Juliet Feld Grossman
Sure. Well, Monster Jam. There are three things that really make a great Monster Jam experience, and that's the trucks, the tracks, and the drivers. So it's all three elements that have to work together to make it exciting for the guests. And so we look at innovating and developing each of those all together. So we've developed a training program for drivers called Monster Jam University. And that's allowed us to bring in more women into it because we have women and men competing against each other. Other in the same vehicles, same competition, with an equal shot to win. And then we also build all of our own trucks. So we have the world's largest race shop at our studios in Florida. And so we manage nearly, you know, 100 trucks there. And we're building the chassis ourselves, welding them together. We're building engines, we're building all of, you know, most of the other components. I think there are only about 35% of the components in the trucks that you could buy off the shelf.
- [68:15]
Carol Massar
Right.
- [68:15]
Juliet Feld Grossman
Because they're on such a massive scale. And what we're doing is acrobatics. And so we're also always refining the track design to create great, exciting obstacles, to keep pushing the limits.
- [68:27]
Carol Massar
12,000 pound trucks.
- [68:29]
Amanda Fraser
Yeah. Well, some of the. I mean, look, it's. Grave Digger is one of the trucks. Black Pearl, Axe Avenger, backwards, Bob. How much does a truck cost?
- [68:39]
Juliet Feld Grossman
To be honest, I couldn't tell you.
- [68:41]
Amanda Fraser
I mean, these are hundreds of thousands
- [68:42]
Matt Rogers
of dollars per truck.
- [68:43]
Tim Stenovec
Do you think?
- [68:44]
Juliet Feld Grossman
Oh, yes.
- [68:44]
Amanda Fraser
Yeah.
- [68:45]
Juliet Feld Grossman
And you don't want to own one because. Wait till you see what the damage costs. Every weekend we have audacious damage. Because one of the things that our fans love about Monster Jam is that we'll go out there and destroy it. And just to give you an example, it has to be spectacular destruction. But a Grave Digger side, A Grave Digger Digger is still hand painted. It takes 40 hours to paint Grave Digger.
- [69:09]
Amanda Fraser
Wow.
- [69:10]
Juliet Feld Grossman
And so we have a painter dedicated to painting bodies for Gravedigger. And then every weekend, we go out and we shred it.
- [69:18]
Amanda Fraser
And you do it all again.
- [69:20]
Juliet Feld Grossman
And we do it all again.
- [69:21]
Amanda Fraser
Do those. Does the maintenance team travel with the whole crew? And. Because you have to kind of have a mobile shop, too, because you're going from city to city.
- [69:29]
Juliet Feld Grossman
Exactly. So we have in our haulers that are Specially designed and we build those out at our facility as well. We have a mobile repair shop so we have two trucks traveling in a hauler on transport tires and then we have extra equipment and parts along there. And then we also have some depots around the US in different areas where we travel. So during the week between events we can go there and we can do more heavy repairs. But you do know our team and we call it the Thrash because let's say one of our trucks, Sparkle Smash goes out during racing and blows a transmission. We'll take Sparkle Smash into the the back during the event and we will repair that and we will replace that to the best of our ability and change the order then for the second part of the event so we can get out there again and deliver for fans.
- [70:20]
Tim Stenovec
Oh my God.
- [70:22]
Carol Massar
Is that, is it that, that event the most difficult to keep? Like, I'm just, I don't know. I mean there's the Supermodo Cross, like there's just all these different things or they all have individual challenges.
- [70:35]
Juliet Feld Grossman
Everything we do is complicated, but that's what makes it exciting and unique and that's where the value is for our consumer that we do something you can't get anywhere else.
- [70:45]
Amanda Fraser
The revenue. If you look at top line revenue, you of course have tickets sales, you, you also have what you sell there. But sponsorships too, a big part of revenue.
- [70:53]
Juliet Feld Grossman
We have sponsorships. We also have activation program where we bring, we support certain of our partners with retail programs that go to Walmarts and Target stores. And then we also have, we also have a very big licensing business and we have media rights business across our sports properties.
- [71:13]
Amanda Fraser
What are you looking at?
- [71:14]
Carol Massar
You can audition to perform in the circus.
- [71:17]
Amanda Fraser
Let me tell you something. Are you talking about circus or Monster Jam? Because I think the ship sailed for me for both of those. I, I, I think I probably aged out of this.
- [71:25]
Tim Stenovec
But.
- [71:25]
Juliet Feld Grossman
Are you good at ice skating?
- [71:26]
Amanda Fraser
I do.
- [71:26]
Carol Massar
No, no, actually we just had that conversation.
- [71:29]
Amanda Fraser
This 1990s rollerblading, you know, that could have been something, but labor.
- [71:34]
Carol Massar
Is that a tough one too though? Like finding all the people to either fix the Monster Jam, you know, cars, or finding people like is that easy or is that crazy? And we just got about 30 seconds.
- [71:46]
Juliet Feld Grossman
It's never easy to find great people, but it's something that is important to us and because of that we have a longevity, a lot of longevity across
- [71:54]
Carol Massar
people who stay with you for a long time.
- [71:56]
Juliet Feld Grossman
And we're really proud of that.
- [71:58]
Carol Massar
Don't you think he could be like
- [71:59]
Juliet Feld Grossman
Dan, like I. I'm interested.
- [72:01]
Amanda Fraser
I know.
- [72:02]
Let's start with a ride in one of the trucks. How's that?
- [72:05]
Carol Massar
Yeah.
- [72:05]
Tim Stenovec
I don't know.
- [72:06]
Amanda Fraser
Have you driven one?
- [72:07]
Juliet Feld Grossman
No. I. Leave it to the pros.
- [72:09]
Amanda Fraser
Okay.
- [72:10]
Juliet Feld Grossman
You don't want to see me try?
- [72:12]
Amanda Fraser
You're the boss. You could do. You're the boss.
- [72:15]
Carol Massar
Well, but not well.
- [72:16]
Juliet Feld Grossman
I know what I can do.
- [72:17]
Amanda Fraser
Well, that's Juliette Feld Grossman, CEO of Feld Entertainment.
- [72:21]
Carol Massar
Still to come on Bloomberg Businessweek, a look inside the world's first and only five star cruise.
- [72:26]
Amanda Fraser
We've got more on the can't miss vacations featured in this year's edition of the Forbes Travel Guide 2020 Six Star Awards.
- [72:32]
Carol Massar
This is Bloomberg.
- [72:37]
Matt Rogers
This is Matt Rogers from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. This is Bowen Yang from Los Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. What if your WI fi was more than just WI fi? What if your WI fi made everything in your whole house just work together better? Well, Xfinity WI fi pretty much does exactly that. It's powered by their best, most elite, high performing tech. Allow us to paint a very realistic example. Example? Everyone in your house, everyone is on their devices at the exact same time. Gaming, working, swiping. Right. Because of course they are. And the finale of your favorite show of all time of the week is on at the exact same moment. Well, you can boost the WI fi to your device with Xfinity. And have you ever asked yourself, what if my WI fi could keep watch over my kids for me? Well, probably not, because that's a weird thing to ask yourself. But Xfinity WI Fi has parenting skills, even if you sometimes forget yours. Xfinity's like, don't worry, I'll monitor the WI Fi. It's completely proactive. Fixing issues before they even happen. Bottom line, Xfinity is smart and reliable. You deserve the peace of mind of having WI fi that's got your back. Xfinity. Imagine that
- [73:46]
Amanda Fraser
at Oppenheimer, we're proven because we're grounded in discipline. For 145 years, we've been building and protecting wealth through every market cycle with precision, clarity, and the courage to think boldly beyond the moment. This is what market tested legacy looks like for this generation and the next. Put the power of Oppenheimer thinking to work for you. Wealth management, capital markets, investment banking.
- [74:15]
Carol Massar
They say, if you want to go fast, go alone. But if you want to go far, go together. At Amica and Chef, we know what matters most to you, and we work even harder to protect it. Together, as a mutual insurance company, we're built for our customers and prioritize your needs. Amica Empathy is our best policy. Visit amica.com and get a quote today. This is Bloomberg Business Week Daily with Carol Massar and Tim Steff on Bloomberg Radio.
- [74:53]
Amanda Fraser
Carol, if you missed out on the McDonald's chicken nuggets with caviar, there's always next year's U.S. open. You weren't there this year. No.
- [74:59]
Carol Massar
What did they do?
- [74:59]
Amanda Fraser
$100 cocoa duck, coco duck chicken caviar nugget, 100 bucks.
- [75:06]
Tim Stenovec
Coco duck.
- [75:07]
Amanda Fraser
Yeah.
- [75:07]
Carol Massar
Oh, chicken caviar.
- [75:09]
Amanda Fraser
24 karat gold edition nuggets. You could have gotten too. Yeah. It's the U.S. open.
- [75:15]
Carol Massar
It is the U.S. open.
- [75:16]
Amanda Fraser
Open.
- [75:16]
Carol Massar
Just saying.
- [75:17]
Amanda Fraser
Hey, speaking of luxury. Yes, that's exactly where we're going right now. The Mandarin Oriental, Lago de Como, New Juma, a Ritz Carlton reserve in Saudi Arabia. Atlas Buckhead, a restaurant in Atlanta, the world's first and only five star cruise. Just a handful of some of the hotels, restaurants, spas and experiences that are featured in this year's edition of the Forbes Travel Guide 2020 Six Star Awards.
- [75:41]
Carol Massar
Sign me up. Sign me, me up. Amanda Fraser is president of standards and ratings at the Forbes Travel Guide. She joins us from Atlanta on this Wednesday. Great to have you here with us. Tell us a bit more about the Forbes Travel Guide. I think there's a lot of guides out there and I think we're all like, well, wait, how do we distinguish? So tell us about who you guys are and how you rate various areas of the hospitality industry.
- [76:06]
Amanda Fraser
We're in our 68th year of doing and, you know, I think the question I get the most is why do ratings matter? And, you know, who are you going to trust is what we say at the end of the day. I think there's a continued online peripheral proliferation of confusing travel advice out there. So our guide aims to cut through that clutter. And with our 68 list launched today, there are more choices than ever before. Just over 2400, actually.
- [76:33]
So, so we were looking into how you become one of the inspectors to travel around the world because it's just
- [76:40]
Carol Massar
what we want to do our next career.
- [76:42]
Amanda Fraser
It doesn't sound like a bad gig like traveling to remote places and staying at luxury resorts and being undercover. People often have questions about lists like this and how they come about. Are the, are the hotels and resorts paying to be in them? But no, you guys are paying to actually rate them. How does that, that work?
- [77:01]
You know, thank you for asking that question. And it isn't all caviar and, and you know, lying on fluffy beds all the time, for sure. We pride ourselves in the integrity that we put into our system. So no, it is. You cannot pay to get your rating. We visit every property that's on the list and at the end of the day, it's about integrity and an ethical way of making sure that we're separate, the best places to stay. Because, you know, we're talking about prices these days in hotels. You're looking at things on our list $1,000 and upwards a night. So the experience has got to be exceptional. And that's what we're there to find out.
- [77:40]
Carol Massar
I am also curious, Amanda. I mean, when you hit luxury, there's like just certain standards that are a given. Right. So how do you, you know, when you're dealing with properties that are kind of the cream of the crop, what is it that then you're ranking them on are. Because at that point they're at a certain level to begin with.
- [77:57]
Amanda Fraser
Exactly. And you know, I think at the end of the day, you can build a beautiful hotel. There's a lot of investment out there right now and some fabulous product. But what we are known for and what we stand by is the service. So 70% of our algorithm that makes up these awards is based on service. And when we dive even deeper into that, the big thing that everyone's talking about right now is all authenticity. And we know that that's important because people want to feel closer to a brand. They want to understand the brand and identify with it. So the hotels that do that particularly well, that define their brand standards and that deliver that authenticity, they rise to the top in our system.
- [78:37]
Carol Massar
Should we talk about some properties?
- [78:38]
Amanda Fraser
Yeah, I want to talk about a five star cruise because that, that I think is, is one of the interesting takeaways for this year year because it's the world's first and only five star cruise. What can you tell us about what to expect on a ship such as this, an experience such as this?
- [78:54]
I mean, my goodness, it is historical not only for us, but for the cruising industry to have Ilma, the Ritz Carlton yacht collections first five star cruise. It's the first hotel brand to take cruising into, you know, mainstream on our list. And you know, it really is fantastic because they can deliver, deliver at such a high level and because of their ability to have a good strong staff to passenger ratio. And really they're delivering on that trend that we're seeing, which is about flow travel and multi generational travel, which just makes it so much easier for people to have a vacation where they really don't have to think. And we talk about frictionless travel all the time and that's what we mean because.
- [79:37]
But it's such a big, it looks like a big ship and, and you know, typically you would associate an experience with a smaller ship that seems more personal, you know, a smaller experience. How do they pull that off?
- [79:49]
I mean, the Yacht Collection is a smaller ship. And you know, there's other brands like Aman and Orient Express coming out with smaller product this year. At the end of the day, it's really about the service and that's what matters and that's what counts. And you know, this is a brand that's delivering it time and time again. Same with La Voyage, the restaurant, the Daniel Ballou restaurant on the celebrity ships, you know, being the first five star restaurant at sea. These are incredible brands and incredible individuals delivering love.
- [80:16]
Carol Massar
Danielle Pollute the person and his restaurants. To be, to be quite fair, where do you want to go next?
- [80:24]
Amanda Fraser
No, I think where we want to go next is there's a lot of unspoken destinations that don't necessarily get the coverage sometimes that New York, Chicago, L.A. london, Paris get. So, you know, we're looking, looking at river cruising because that is a really hot, you know, trend right now. And then also destinations like Charleston, South Carolina are making it big on our list this year as well.
- [80:46]
Carol Massar
Yeah, it's not just the reality show. I have a bunch of family that have moved down there to do like semi retirement and it's just everybody's moving down there. It's kind of a charming port city, weather's nice and all that good stuff. I want to go back to the list here because I like, like there's a section smaller, delivers big. And I have to say, when I go on vacation, I love people, but I like to get away from them. So I like to go where it's.
- [81:10]
Amanda Fraser
Because you spend your working day with me. I don't take offense to it.
- [81:13]
Carol Massar
No, I'll travel with you. But I mean, it's just like I, I like where it isn't overcrowded. I like some space, I like to breathe, I like to be near an ocean. And that is something. You know, I even used to go and stay in hotels and I wanted like these smaller lux luxury hotels. That was kind of a fun place to be. But that is certainly something that pops up among your highly rated list.
- [81:35]
Amanda Fraser
You know, you're absolutely right. There is definitely a shift towards that more intimate build. And we're seeing that actually quite heavily in Macau even this year. So just for example, there's a lot of hotels within hotels, the Paysagrande, the Capella, which are within these big integrated rooms resorts. And I think that's really a reflection of the desire to get closer to a brand.
- [81:59]
Yeah. So I want to go back to the business model here because if, if, if you're paying to actually go to all of these resorts, have these experiences, you have a staff that does that, you then put this together. That takes a lot of resources. And the ratings are available for free to, to us. How do you make money? What's the business model?
- [82:19]
Yeah, that's a great question. Thank you. So why, while we do pay for our own rating evaluation system, I think the one thing that's really important that the consumer looks for as well is transparency. So we do, while we are, you know, we are a consumer advocacy group at the end of the day, but we're also advocates for the industry. And you know, when we are working with the industry, we're offering them transparency if they would like it into the results and for them to understand how they can get better. You know, so when they're getting their rating every year, I mean ultimately they need to know are they achieving at the very highest level, are they perhaps in danger of losing? Because we go every year and it's about re earning and re establishing your brand every year.
- [83:05]
So essentially what you're saying is you have this consumer facing business which, which offers their results for, for free to us as consumers. But you have this enterprise side of the business where you give a, a more granular, detailed breakdown for each individual property. And that's kind of pay to play.
- [83:21]
It is not pay to play. No, it is pay for transparency. So the rating is the rating, it all ends independently. And hotels still need to do that work. But at the end of the day, if they want to understand our system, our standards, how they did in our system, that's what the, that's what the business model is.
- [83:39]
Carol Massar
All right, tell us about Nujima a Ritz Carlton Reserve. I mean, omg, Carol, if you have
- [83:45]
Amanda Fraser
to ask, you can afford it.
- [83:46]
Carol Massar
Shush. No, but just, I mean we talk about getting away from people. That is certainly a place. The picture alone is just kind of off the charts.
- [83:57]
Amanda Fraser
I mean, that's fabulous. The Red Sea, which I know has more fabulous news coming out, is one of those giga projects that built from the ground up. And that team had a fabulous celebration this morning. They Had a Forbes travel guide, five star T shirts made, made up. And it's really just one of those futuristic resorts that we're just so excited to be able to feature.
- [84:14]
Carol Massar
Now.
- [84:15]
Amanda Fraser
Where do you want to go personally after being at the helm of this? What's the place like in terms of trends where we should really have an eye on?
- [84:25]
You know, a place that we're looking at very closely is close to my heart, where I'm from. The Cotswolds.
- [84:30]
Matt Rogers
Yeah.
- [84:30]
Amanda Fraser
Everybody's talking about the Cotswolds.
- [84:32]
Talking about the Cotswolds. It's big in the news. We will be making our way there this year. I think we might have boots on the ground already, so look out for that on our 2027 list.
- [84:42]
How do people become inspectors?
- [84:46]
Oh, well, if you have to ask, then.
- [84:48]
Carol Massar
Nice, nice.
- [84:49]
Amanda Fraser
You get tapped for it. Right? It's like a secret society a little bit.
- [84:55]
Yeah. They're definitely undercover. You can't find them online. That's the plan.
- [84:59]
Carol Massar
You know, there's a cute little reality show. Oh, sorry.
- [85:02]
Amanda Fraser
Being a little evasive with this part.
- [85:04]
Carol Massar
I got to say, the cut look,
- [85:05]
Amanda Fraser
you really do keep that close. Close to the vest, right?
- [85:09]
Very close to the vest. Because you know what, to be truthful, if an evaluation is found out and it's always a great game, then we have to kind of pull them out and start again. Because as I said, it's integrity based. We take that very, very seriously.
- [85:22]
Yeah, I mean, there are great stories of restaurant reviewers having elaborate disguises and you know, you always hear those stories historically about kitchens having pictures of these reviewers in them. But if somebody's found out at one place, can't they just end up going to another place and they're fine.
- [85:39]
You might be able to, but you know, the game is very, very real and we have to take that very seriously and make sure that that profile isn't shared out or amongst, you know, a chatter behind the scenes.
- [85:52]
Carol Massar
One last question. It seems like we talk about it a lot. The K shaped economy, a lot more wealth creation. It seems like there's more and more entries on the higher end hospitality space. Is that fair? Do you see more and more properties coming online to certainly feed into a wealthier public, if you will, that can really go out there and spend because it just seems like a lot of wealth creation and then there's services and things to service them. So I'm just curious, are you seeing more properties come on online?
- [86:24]
Amanda Fraser
Yeah, I mean, the pipeline is so strong and I think, you know, the great wealth transfer is speeding into that. And we also know that, you know, the younger generation are spending on travel like never before. So I think this is the beginning of a very strong decade for travel and luxury travel.
- [86:41]
That was Amanda Fraser, president of standards and ratings at Forbes Travel Guide.
- [86:45]
Carol Massar
And that wraps up the weekend edition of Bloomberg businessweek from Bloomberg Radio. Thank you so much for joining us.
- [86:49]
Amanda Fraser
Be sure to tune into Bloomberg Businessweek daily Monday through Friday starting at 2pm Wall street time on Bloomberg TV, Bloomberg Radio and on SiriusXM channel 121.
- [86:58]
Carol Massar
You can also watch our daily broadcast on YouTube. Just search Bloomberg podcasts. We're simulcast on Bloomberg originals, available on bloomberg.com originals and streaming platforms including Roku, Amazon, Fire TV, Samsung TV and more.
- [87:11]
Amanda Fraser
Find our Bloomberg Businessweek podcast at bloomberg.com, apple or wherever you get your podcasts. The latest edition of the magazine. It's available on newsstands now@bloomberg.com and always on the Bloomberg Terminal. I'm Tim Stenbeck.
- [87:23]
Carol Massar
And I'm Carol Massar. Have a good and safe weekend, everyone. Do stay with us. Today's top stories and global business headlines are coming up right now.
- [87:33]
Matt Rogers
This is Matt Rogers from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. This is Bowen Yang from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. Hey, so what if you could boost the WI fi to one of your devices when you need it most? Because Xfinity WI fi can. And what if your WI fi could fix itself before there's even really a problem? Xfinity is so reliable. It does that too. What if your WI fi had parental instincts? Xfinity WI fi is part nanny, part ninja, protecting your kids while they're online. And finally, what if your WI fi was like, the smartest WI fi? Yeah, it's WI fi that is so smart it makes everything work better together. Bottom line, Xfinity is smart and reliable. You deserve the peace of mind of having WI fi sci fi that's got your back. Xfinity. Imagine that.
- [88:17]
Amanda Fraser
This podcast is supported by FX's Love
- [88:19]
Carol Massar
Story, John F. Kennedy Jr. And Carolyn Bessette.
- [88:22]
Amanda Fraser
The new limited series from executive producer Ryan Murphy. It explores the complex courtship of the iconic couple considered to be American royalty, whose love story captured the attention of the nation.
- [88:33]
Carol Massar
Their fairy tale romance would unfold in
- [88:35]
Matt Rogers
front of the public eye, where their
- [88:36]
Amanda Fraser
private love would also become a national obsession.
- [88:40]
Carol Massar
FX's love story John F. Kennedy Jr.
- [88:42]
Tim Stenovec
And Carolyn Bassette watch now on FX, Hulu and Hulu on Disney for bundle subscribers.
- [88:47]
Amanda Fraser
Thirty years ago, Scream changed horror forever.
- [88:50]
Carol Massar
Now it's all led to this.
- [88:51]
Amanda Fraser
In Scream 7, Sidney Prescott thought she'd
- [88:54]
Carol Massar
finally escape the nightmare of Ghostface, raising her family in a quiet town far away from the horrors of Woodsboro.
- [89:01]
Matt Rogers
She was wrong, and this time the
- [89:03]
Carol Massar
target isn't just her.
- [89:04]
Amanda Fraser
It's her team teenage daughter Tatum, who's
- [89:06]
Carol Massar
the same age Sidney was when the terror began. Neve Campbell returns in her iconic final girl role as Sidney Prescott, facing the most brutal and psychological ghostface yet, joined by franchise favorites Courteney Cox, Jasmine, Savoy Brown and Mason Gooding, alongside terrifying new blood including Isabel May McKenny, Grace, Asa Gurman and more. Directed by franchise creator Kevin Williamson in his directorial debut, Scream 7 is packed with edge of your seat scares and shocks for everyone, with references and callbacks for Scream fans everywhere. Ghostface is the terrifying horror icon alongside Freddy Jason and Michael Myers. And after 30 years, the mask still means one no one is safe. See Scream 7 in theaters February 27, because screams are always better when you hear them together.