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Just head to the bloomberg or bloomberg.com Also this week and from Washington, pharma stocks rallying on an announcement from the White House. We've got a deep dive into what exactly it means for drug companies and for patients and the mobile satellite company whose stock shot up as well as it looks to go against Elon and SpaceX. Then from Amazon's device overhaul to take on Apple in the era of AI and Meta's latest AI glasses to peloton pumping up prices and Aura's new ceramic ring. What you need to know from Bloomberg's Mark Gurman. That and the exercise suit that amplifies your muscles by way of electric pulses and maybe makes you look like a superhero. Yes indeed, all that to come. We start with earnings officially just around the corner, but a few companies getting us warmed up, including Carnival Corporation, the world's largest cruise Operator with a fleet of more than 90 ships and brands, including Carnival Cruise Line, its namesake brand, Holland America Lines, Princess Seabourn and a few more. The company a great read on the consumer, on travel and on the economy. Josh Weinstein, President CEO and Chief climate Officer of Carnival Corporation, joined us on the day the company reported record revenue and raised its full year earnings forecast for the third straight quarter. Still, investors weren't impressed. We did set a record for, for demand for our yield and that was across North American brands and European brands Both coming in 4% higher year over year, which is great consistency. We also saw that that improvement was driven both by the ticket pricing and onboard spending. So, so all the trends that we have are really quite positive and it's all helped lead to 13% ROIC, something we haven't seen since, God, about 20 years now. The highest operating income and EBITDA on a per unit basis that we've seen in 20 years, record net income. So, so the teams are working hard and delivering over delivering and we'll continue, continue to try to do that. We're going to talk about all of that. Stifel, an analyst over at Stifel, pointing to a lower than expected fourth quarter net yields guidance. It's a measure of, of the amount of revenue you earn per available lower birthday. Are you just being conservative with this guidance? Because it sounds like things are going pretty well. Yeah, things are going pretty well. It's consistent to what we said the guidance would be back in June if you backed into what the fourth quarter would be. As a matter of fact, we kept the second half overall consistent to where we were in December because we did experience a lot of volatility over the first half of the year given macroeconomic geopolitical events. But what we saw is, you know, we've outperformed every single quarter and that includes the third quarter. And we're going to work hard to try to outperform again. We're projecting yields in the fourth quarter that demand to be nicely over 4% just like we ended the third quarter. So the trajectory is, the trajectory is good. Josh, great to have you here. And I'm looking at your share price for the year up almost 18%. So easily outperforming the broader market. I mean, what's going on with the consumer? You guys track the ins and outs of it in terms of bookings, what the spend is on the ship when they get off the ship. So I'm just curious, how do you characterize the consumer and who's, who's going on, who's jumping on board with you guys? So I'd say the consumer is strong. I think that's a pretty consistent word that we've been using for the past couple of years. And, and yes, we do see ebbs and flows and we see gyrations in the backdrop in the macroeconomics. But at the end of the day, what we have to offer is a very, very amazing value to what you can get by doing any other type of holiday, any other type of vacation, and people pay for it. And the great thing is, even though they're paying more for our experiences than they did last year and the year before and the year before that, the gap to land based vacations is still huge. And so if there is a weakness and pullback in consumer sentiment, that bodes very well for us because people are looking to stretch their dollar even further and figuring out how do I get an amazing holiday because I need one and spend, you know, as, as thoughtfully as I possibly can. And we turn up very well when you line us up against the alternatives. What's cool about talking with you? And I know Carnival is your big brand, but I mean you have multiple brands and I know you've consolidated internment in terms of some of the groupings. But are you talked about positive momentum on all of the brands or is there one in particular that you're really seeing some standout activity? Well, you know, we have a, as I said in my notes this morning, we have an internal leaderboard obviously with our, with our eight world class brands and we encourage the competition and everybody sees who's on top and who's marching forward. And you know, the two strongest brands on top of our leaderboard of returns are Carnival Cruise Line, which is America's cruise line, and Aida Cruises, which is, which is the equivalent in Germany. And the great thing is as strong as they are and as high as they are, they're looking over their shoulder because everybody is making improvement year over year. And that's true stretches across both North America and Europe as well. And the great thing is, despite the fact that we're showing so much improvement, only about half of our brands are back to where they were in returns since before our pause before 2020. Only half of them are at their historical peak. So I know the latent demand, pardon me, the latent potential that is in our brands. And they are marching forward at pace and you can see the results on a consolidated basis for the corporation. Josh, one of the things we always talk about is, and we have folks here who are they do one cruise, they do another cruise. They do another cruise. And I've been on a Carnival ship where you're talking about Charlie. I am, I am, but I've been on an elevator where I've talked to people in the elevator and they're like, yeah, you know, this is our 10th cruise or our 5th cruise. I am curious what's the mix between new passengers who are experienced Carnival for the first time versus those who are coming back for a second, third, fourth, fifth, whatever time on. On one of your ships? Yeah, so, so I'll speak holistically and then I can get a little bit more specific. But holistically we got about a third of our guests at any one time are going to be new to cruise and the remainder is going to be a mix of brand loyalists and those who cruise in general and they might go on various brands and they're back on board one of our ships, one of our brands. It really is dependent on the profile of the brand and the cruise because there is a huge difference between a three nighter quick getaway for the weekend out of Miami and going on a Cunard ship for 120 night world cruise. Josh, I want to have a quick corporate finance question with you because you said something on the call that got my interest and I know a lot of interest from investors. Leverage is now down to 3.6 times net debt to EBITDA. You'll be able to return cash to shareholders when that metric gets to 3.5%. Can you get more color here on the size and scope of that? Just 30 seconds. What a dividend would look like, what buybacks would look like and when exactly that would happen. Well, what we said on the call is, you know, we finally got that line of sight to three and a half times. And from a pro forma perspective, after we do a couple of things that we talked about on the call, we expect to get to that three and a half times, you know, very early in our fiscal 2026. And that really gives us freedom to not only continue to responsibly delever but also start that process of returning cash to shareholders. Having a dividend is very important to us. Historically we've been a dividend paying company and we, we know that that opens new doors for investors, it gives ongoing yield and that's a great thing for a company to be able to guarantee to its shareholders. So that, that is really priority one after that continuing deleveraging. And that will happen in early 2026. That was Josh Weinstein President, CEO and Chief Climate Officer of Carnival Corporation. Also happening this week, the AI buildout and spend continues. Coreweave was one of the big stor the company surged after it signed a deal to supply meta platforms with as much as $14.2 billion worth of computing power. Underscoring the massive costs of developing and running advanced AI models while attracting AI and technology investments is something the Kingdom of Bahrain is focused on as it continues to diversify its economy away from oil. On that, we were joined by Her Excellency Noor Bint Ali Al Kulayf, CEO of the Bahrain Economic Development Board and also the Kingdom's Minister of Sustainable Development. Her focus, bringing investments into Bahrain, including data centers. Yeah, absolutely. It's important. I mean, it's coming, it's already there. So we've had AWS set up the first hyperscale data center in the Middle east in Bahrain a few years back. And again, as I mentioned, the reason they chose Bahrain is because of the regulation, but also the strength of the human capital. You mentioned Oracle, but we also have some regional and local investment for data centers. So we're definitely seeing growth in that region where international companies that wish to use that and take advantage can come and plug and play and take advantage of the data centers already available. But really because of the demand, there's a lot of potential and opportunities for companies that still wish to have data centers in the region to come also and take advantage of that. So I am curious, you sound very optimistic. What's the biggest hurdle, obstacle right now in you attracting further investment? What's the thing that's difficult in terms of what you do? I wouldn't say difficult, but we have to have a lot of conversations to explain the business environment, talk about their characteristics, what makes us different. But it's all very, very exciting. So we don't mind that at all. And I also do think about, you know, something that's certainly been front and center, front, front of mind for us, excuse me. And certainly coming off the UN General assembly and you know, watching the turmoil that we've seen in the, in the, in the region, how important is that to, to the folks that you're talking, whether it's companies, big name companies that we know, other investors in terms of investing, obviously not every kingdom or area within the Middle east is the same. But you know, the turmoil and the, and certainly the war that we've seen between Israel and Hamas, how much of that, the political situation sometimes slows things down. You absolutely need safety and stability for companies to thrive for the economy to grow and for us in Bahrain and the region as a whole, we've always advocated for peace. We've always played a part on a regional level, on an international level to advocate for peace and stability and we continue to do that. At the same time, the countries are very much focused on their economic strategies, economic plans, and we continue to have conversations with companies and for those that have any doubt, we just say, come and talk to us. We will show you. We will explain to you the current business environment. But we are blessed to have to have a very stable and a safe business environment in Ukraine. I have one last question too, and I'm just curious. When you do have questions with investors, obviously well known companies, big companies, I'm sure folks do their homework, but what is the thing that you think they don't really understand about Bahrain and in terms of the economy and what you guys are doing? I think how diversified the economy is is something probably people do not realize. And given the journey we've had a long journey of reform, our journey in reform and achieving the diversification that we've achieved today with 85% of the economy being non oil, with a large manufacturing sector, a large financial services sector and others as well, is something people do not realize. And what that means is for years and years, for decades, we've built knowledge and know how in our people, in our infrastructure, in our regulation, in the way we do business and the way we work with the private sector as well. So that's something that I think always surprises people when we talk to them. Our thanks to Her Excellency Noor Bint Ali Al Kulayf, CEO of the Bahrain Economic Development Board and also the kingdom's Minister of Sustainable Development. Coming up on Bloomberg businessweek, one stock that shot up this week on news, an analyst upgrade and a mission to maybe go head to head with Space X. The president of ast Space Mobile is next. This is Bloomberg. 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Delighted to have with us Scott Wisniewski. He is president of AST Space Mobile. As we said, joining us from Boston. So great to have you here with us, Scott. You've got to be busy. It sounds like you're super busy. If I do a search, there's like various press releases coming out Your Bluebirds satellites, 8 to 16, they're in various stages of production. My understanding is you guys have planned launches every 1 to 2, 3 months on average this year and into next year. You're on track to complete 40 phased arrays by early next year and expect, expect 45 to 60 satellites in orbit by the end of 2026. Tell me if I've got it all right, and tell us about this build out and capabilities and who ultimately is signing up to use it. Well, thank you for having us. You know, our company is entirely focused on this opportunity of providing wireless access from space directly to the phone in your pocket. So to do this we're vertically integrated, we build our own satellites as you were just discussing. We're based in Texas here in the United States and we're partnered with over 50 mobile network operators globally. That's how we go to market because those are the folks who have the customers today, nearly 3 billion of them with the partners that we have. So we're focused on building this network out. We have about an eight year history as a company. We have over 3,700 patent and patent pending claims on developing this new technology. It sounds far fetched at first talking to your regular small phone in your pocket from, from low earth orbit, but that's the capability that we have and this is really important I think for, for everyone because there's 6 billion phones out there in the world and as we know we depend on connectivity so much and it's very important that that phone works whether it's convenience, peace of mind or emergencies. And that's what we're focused on. Starlink has partnered with T Mobile, you have partnered with AT&T and Verizon. What can you tell customers about when they can actually expect continuous coverage nationally and perhaps even globally as a result of this partnership? Right. And so we actually have investment from about six different mobile network operators around the world, as well as American Tower, who's the largest tower company in the world, and Google. And so in the United States, yes, like you said, we're partnered with AT&T and Verizon, both investors. And it's very important for us to have that close relationship because the way we've built the company, our services built, purpose built for the mobile phone in your pocket. So that just works. And the key there is to be deeply integrated with the operator and solve the operator's problem so they can deliver value to their customers. So we're organized today around getting service out next year and we Currently have about five satellites in orbit. We just announced our plans to deliver number six and seven to the launch pad. And as you said earlier, we're looking to put up 45 to 60 by the end of next year. And so this capability is very important in United States, but also around the world. Well, tell us, like, who, who you anticipate or who are right now your biggest customers. I'm curious about commercial, residential, and I'm also curious about government. Oh, that's right. And the important thing about our company, too is, you know, space has historically been a bit of a niche. You know, if you live in a rural area or if you're on a plane and you want connectivity, there are nice little markets there. But this is about going to the mass market, the 6 billion mobile phones in the world. And so that's. That goes for people who live, work and travel, go in and out of coverage, who have greater ability to pay and want that convenience, as well as people who live perhaps in rural areas who don't have good connectivity or are willing to pay a little bit more a month to have cellular broadband. Again, this is not a text service. This is a cellular broadband service that we'll be selling. So that's our US and really developed economy story when you go around the world. There's many countries, though, where there's over 2 billion people today who don't have good 3G or better service on their phones. That means 2G or nothing. And so market by market, our services valuable to the users and the operators who support those end users. And then you mentioned US Government. That's been a relatively new ad to our story in the last two years. But given the defense and so space backdrop in the United States, this is something that's been front and center for us for the last two years. And we're already providing services to the US Government from orbit. So, Scott, you probably know this little company called Space X that is out there, and I'm just curious. They did a deal with EchoStar. They became the first company to amass control of the satellite constellations in outer space, the launch infrastructure to deliver them there, and the potential for direct connections with mobile devices on the ground. So there's Space X. They're kind of the big behemoth there, the big player. There's you guys, there's Amazon.com there's Global Star in the race for ubiquitous coverage. How do you plan to compete with Starlink, which already has thousands of satellites in orbit? Right. And I think for the, for the layman it's important to distinguish between service to a dish that you might put on your house or, or on a car or on a plane and then the phone in your pocket. Right. We all have WI fi at home and then we have a cell phone for when we're on the go. So this is a market, the cellular market from space that's brand new. You've seen some players start to enter it including Apple and Starlink. But we've been at this for about 8 years. This solution is tailor made, purpose built for this solution. This is not an add on new service for us. This is all we do. And that's why we've been able to garner such incredible support from network operators globally like AT&T and Verizon in the US Vodafone in Europe, Rakuten Mobile in Japan, Bell Canada, who we just announced cellular broadband testing in from Canada today with who's who's also an investor in us. So these are, these are capabilities that have been developed with the network operator in mind. We are focused on making their network better so that they can deliver the value to the customer. You're not saying that you're competing with, with Space X and Starlink, that you're completely different businesses? Well, we plan to go after the cellular user through the mobile network operator. They also have a strategy, as you said, that they're pursuing. But this is a market that we think is big. It's going to be worth tens of billions of dollars. There's 6 billion phones out of there in the world that go in and out of coverage. And all of us know that feeling. When we don't have a signal, it's, you're helpless. And so we think that, and all of our over 50 network operator partners think that this is something that really enhances the value of the cellular plan that almost all of us have certainly in the United States. And so that is a strategy that's good, that's going to be a nice robust market. And we expect with our technology to be the leader in that because we're doing broadband from space. You mentioned your work with the US Government over the last two years. Can you expand on that a little bit? What exactly are you doing for the US Government? Yeah, so it's probably worth taking a step back. You know, we currently operate the five largest satellites in low Earth orbit commercially. You know that low earth orbit for the layman is, you know, that's where the space station is. It's much closer to the planet. It's that lag you experience when you have a geosynchronous satellite, LEO solves all that. So we have the largest satellites deployed in low earth orbit. The one we're shipping to the launch pad in two weeks is three times the size, over 2,400 square feet. So this is a unique technology that was developed to talk to the small phone and to do it well and to navigate crowded cellular airwaves. But it also has other applications. So with our US government business, we see up to 10 different use cases, both communications and non communications that can support the US Government mission for defense. Importantly, one of the ones we're testing in orbit today has, and we've been doing it for over a year, has really strategic and valuable implications, including potentially for the Golden Dome project. You also mentioned the notion that it's not just texting and being able to make calls. This is broadband delivered from a satellite to wherever you are in the world. That's the idea here. What is the experience using the phone in that environment? And how could that be different or similar than using a 5G LTE network? What are the speeds we're talking here? That's right. And so from the beginning, and again, this is why we've been partnered with the network operators. They've been in the room with us testing and developing this tech for five plus years. And what means is we're integrated on the back end. You remember, everyone's got a vision in their mind of, of calls in the old days where someone would be connecting the call and doing this. Well, that technology still exists in the world. It's just done with servers and with software. And so we're deeply integrated on that side of the business so that the phone just works. And so this is a native cellular broadband experience. The user doesn't know that there's a difference unless we want them to. And they can do text calling, native calling, video streaming, and they can do all these applications. And it feels just like you're using your phone on an LTE in 5G network. So how fast? Like what are we talking megabits per second here? Up and down. So we've tested over 20 megabits per second to the cell in the past couple of years with our satellites in orbit, with the, you know, there was mention of a spectrum deal a moment ago. We did our own spectrum transaction earlier this year. Very similar type of spectrum, which is about 40 plus megahertz in the United States. And with 40 megahertz we can deliver 120 megabits to the cell on the ground. Now how you manage all the network traffic and how do you go to market is a critical decision we make with our partners around the world, including in the United States. But there's only one way to get broadband capabilities from space and that's with a big satellite. And we have the biggest on the connection side of things. We're wondering too about the experience of being inside and outside. Anyone who's used like a Garmin head unit, for example, on a bike, knows that you have to use it outside to get the cell signal. Can this coverage go inside buildings? That's right. We can do one wall in. So some of the success factors for that are the fact that again, we have a big satellite and we also use low band spectrum. That's part of our partnership with AT&T& Verizon is combining some low band spectrum that they have from decades ago. And so the low band spectrum propagation characteristics are the best. And as you go into mid band, even then it's still pretty good. So we can do about one wall in, which means a building, means a car, means a plane. Ah, okay. That's what we were because I think there were some folks like kind of messaging. What is he talking about? Hey, you mentioned that you guys have picked up spectrum 40 MHz. Do you want to buy any more if some comes up for auction? Well, in, in the space world, there's two big bands of spectrum that matter. It's called L and S. We just purchased long term access to the L band in the United States and Canada earlier this year. And that gives us a big chunk of spectrum, the biggest available in the most valuable wireless market in the world, which is the US we also purchased an international filing that allows us to go around the world and pick up other pieces of spectrum for space. So we're pretty happy with our spectrum position now after those two moves. This again is consistent with our historical strategy of sharing cellular spectrum with the operators. But it gives us more lanes of traffic and the ability to do better services to more subscribers. So we like our strategy in both of those two bands that matter. All right, we've got to run, so appreciate this deep dive. I hope you'll come back. Keep us abreast of what you guys are working on. That was Scott Wisniewski, president of AST Space Mobile. Still ahead on Bloomberg Businessweek, pharmaceutical stocks popping up this week on actions by the White House. Pfizer is committing to offer all of their prescription medications to Medicaid and it will be at the most favored nation's prices. It's going to have a huge impact on bringing Medicaid costs down and talk of cheaper drugs for Americans. That's next. This is Bloomberg Seeing through the eyes of experts gives you a better view. Another big IPO hits the market. Clearly I've been screaming. This is an elegant chart. And at Bloomberg our market vision is 2020. Stocks just keep moving higher. 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Wall street had long feared that President Trump would follow through with threats to impose aggressive drug pricing policies, eroding the pharmaceutical industry's profitability and depressing share prices. Those fears though largely laid to rest this week after Pfizer cut a deal with the White House, the company negotiating a three year reprieve on drug import tariffs in exchange for a promise to reduce what it charges Medicaid. Here's Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla at the White House alongside President Trump. The big winner of this deal clearly will be the American pace. There is no doubt about it. They are the ones that will see significant impact in their ability to buy medicines. But I would argue that it is not the only win. I think. Who else is a winner here? It is American innovation and American economy. We're going to have another meeting next week on this. We have another great company coming in similar kind of numbers, but we're going to show you some 1000% drops in prices. There has never been anything like this in the history of medicine. That was President Trump, you just heard, and Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla. I just hope my high school math teacher is not listening. About 1,000% drop. Yeah, I know. Because we're not going to get into for another day the math mathing there. Let's bring in Damien Garde, Bloomberg News health reporter. He's been very busy. He's taken some time to join us here in the Bloomberg Interactive Brokers studio. Are drug prices going to go down as a result of this for the vast majority of Americans? No, I sincerely doubt it. There is no reason to conclude that based on what we learned at least yesterday from Albert Bourla in the Oval Office and the promises that Pfizer has made, we can get into the nitty gritty. But I think the main thing, the promise to Medicaid, an important caveat there is that patients on Medicaid, Medicaid already pays the lowest price available in the United States. It is legally obligated to get that. So the notion that Pfizer making a commitment to lower that further would change the out of pocket costs for patients, I just don't think there's much there. And furthermore, in terms Of Pfizer's business, only about 5% of that business accounts for doing business with Medicaid. That's the word business, probably too many times. And I think the main thing that should drive the reaction here is that in this announcement, Pfizer, which has a fiduciary duty to maximize its profits and to update shareholders on its guidance, did not update its guidance. The company said this thing that ostensibly means we're going to make less money, at least that's how the President characterized it, but didn't actually say we're going to make less money, which of course, legally they're required to do. I feel like that through line is maybe the lens, maybe not cynicism, but the lens of reality, that people should look at these announcements look no further than the share price reaction. I said yesterday, I'm like, why is this stock rallying? They're going to make less money. I had no. I just made no sense and was like, well, it's all about the tariff thing. And I'm like, true. And that is certainly a part of it, but I'm like, they're going to make less money. How can this be a good thing? Right? So I think the relief that you're seeing in the share price reaction is twofold or maybe even threefold. One, it alleviates the threat that the Trump administration was really going to come down hard with an aggressive policy that would be on the books, that would really constrain what drug companies could charge. Instead, we get this voluntary, relatively vague promise from Pfizer that is expected to set a template for the company's peers, Eli Lilly, Merck, et cetera. They will probably all have their day at the Oval Office to do a similar kind of dog and pony show. And then furthermore, what's established is that if you make those promises, you get a reprieve from tariffs, which is the other kind of overhang for the entire sector is this fear that the import of medicines from Europe would face levies of. The president has said 100, 200%. The notion that if you just go out there and say we're going to follow what the administration wants on drug pricing, we get that alleviation. Damian, just quickly, just to be fair, I mean, has Pfizer come back and said this is going to impact us financially or it's not going to impact. Have we gotten any clarification from the company on this? They have not. There hasn't been a follow on filing with the sec kind of making clear they're restating any guidance and Furthermore, what they've said is that the terms of their agreement with the White House are confident. So respectfully, we can only conclude what's been said publicly. Damian, sit tight. We're going to bring in Angie Frank. She's CEO of the private health company Calderos. The firm does drug discount management. It uses AI as well as communicating with different parties involved in the negotiating process to get consumers the best prices. She joins us from Wisconsin. Angie, I'll ask you the same question that I asked Damian because you're right in the middle of this drug pricing thing. Are drug prices going to come down as a result of what we saw at the White House yesterday? I think what Damien said, there's, there's some truth to that. I think at the end of the day we won't all feel it immediately, but I do think drug prices are going to come down. I think the announcement yesterday is a big change to the system and it is the first step in and what I think will be multiple steps. We're certainly opening up more channels for patients to access their drugs at more affordable prices and I think the underlying the Medicaid price that, that states currently pay is going to come down based on Pfizer's announcement yesterday. Well, that's interesting. What would the mechanism for that be? Because that's what I found myself wondering even yesterday in the announcement, which granted was lacking key details for obvious reasons is very new. But why would this kind of set in motion a snowball that would end with patients paying less at the, the pharmacy counter? Yeah. Yeah. So I think, you know, if you look at the overall list, prices starting to come down to an MFN like number and that opening most favored nations. Yes, most favored nations. Exactly. And that opening up more channels for patients to access their drugs at lower rates. I do think the direct model that the, the website that was also announced which opens up a channel for patients to be purchasing directly at lower US could really have a ripple effect on the way benefits are offered and how employers and self insured employers start constructing benefit plans that give their employees access to drugs which may bypass other players in the system, the traditional players in the system middlemen that have been making money off of, off of drug pricing and discounts and rebate models that, that really didn't benefit patients directly. So I think, I think the new channels being opened up and the new price point at max most favored nation will over the longer term have a, have a pretty significant impact. Nothing confuses me as much as like picking up prescription and coupons and pharmacy benefits. And I don't know, it's just kind of crazy. Damien, the PBMs, the pharmacy benefit managers, they are being looked at closely, like another layer that drives up cost. So that is certainly part of the narrative here. So does that potentially remove that in what we heard from the president and the CEO of Pfizer yesterday, but then throw in this Trump Rx, like, what role does that play that we need to see play out? But I think through the eyes of Pfizer and certainly people in the pharmaceutical industry, there is an optimism and maybe a hope that the agreement announced, if in fact it's a template for other companies, will shift the White House's attention away from pharmaceutical manufacturers and toward the PBMs and the other middlemen that you mentioned. And I think to Angie's point, there is a potential that Trump rx, this sort of direct to patient offering that we've heard about, you know, there are arguments as to just how popular that might be. How many people who don't have insurance would be willing to pay out of pocket hundreds or even thousands of dollars a year for a medicine. Is that what Trump RX would offer is an insurance like this is not covered by insurance. It would be a cash pay business. And so we assume that the majority of customers for it would be uninsured or underinsured because otherwise they could get the drugs much cheaper through their insurance carrier. But the opportunity, I realize we're getting kind of in the weeds here, the opportunity is if one of those direct offerings were selling instead to employers rather than patients themselves, then they would be truly bypassing the middlemen that exist. This is sort of the Mark Cuban model that he's out of. Plus drugs. Exactly. So if Trump, and you know, I'm using my imagination here, there is, this is not something anybody's announced. If TrumpRx, the website that has not yet launched but has been described, were to expand its aperture to include employers, then we could be talking about legitimate savings for all parties involved and a huge change to the way it's done. Now, Angie, come on back in here and talk a little bit about the innovation side of things. Because Albert Bourla at the White House said it's not just the American patient who will be a big winner, but it would also be the American innovation and the American economy. Perhaps there are those out there who might say, okay, well, if companies, drug companies aren't able to make as much money from the drugs that they sell, R and D in this space might suffer. We know it's expensive to run the clinical trials and to do the R and D. What do you think it means for American innovation when it comes to pharmaceuticals? Well, I think it was great. I agree with Albert on all points. I think it's great for America that we're moving manufacturing and that level of innovation, job creation, et cetera, to the U.S. when you, when you simplify the supply chain and the pricing mechanisms for, for our current, you know, drug pricing model, when you simplify that today there's that we lack so much transparency and how prices are established and who gets which price and, and to your point earlier, Carol, where you mentioned the coupons and the co pays and all these things are so confusing. They're confusing by design. People are making a lot of money off of that confusion and that opacity. When you simplify and drive more transparency, you have less waste in the system. And that waste will feed the top of the funnel. That will be dollars that can go directly to the top of the innovation funnel and enable manufacturers to continue to work on and innovate more drugs and more medication therapies that help patients with, you know, life saving and life changing conditions. So it takes two and a half billion dollars to bring a drug to market. So every dollar of waste compromises our ability to, to invest in more, more therapies. So I think it's going to have a, have a tremendous impact over the long run. And you just got about a minute left. I mean, just talk to us about what you do. It's a data engine, it's information you have. It looks like a couple of different constituencies that you work with. But just give us an idea and, and what that tells you about kind of the drug industry and drug pricing industry, what you have been seeing. Yeah, we, we really have a technology platform where we ingest, you know, large volumes of data. We apply logic and rules around various pricing programs and discounts and rebates and then we ensure price integrity, that the right price is going to the right set of patients and the right, you know, for that, for that particular therapy. So we're really driving quite a bit of price integrity in the system. The constituents that we work with include both pharmaceutical manufacturers and providers and we really believe fundamentally that ensuring that the providers and the manufacturers can work more closely directly together benefits Americans, benefits patients, benefits innovate. Our thanks to Damian Gardet, Bloomberg News health reporter and Angie Franks, CEO of the private health company Calderos, which focuses on drug discount management. And that wraps up our first hour of the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. Coming up in the next 60 minutes. This past week was five full of stories and news in the consumer tech gadget space. It all coming at us from Amazon's device overhaul to take on Apple. And also something on Peloton's price hike to putting a ceramic ring on it courtesy of Aura. And the thing Mark Gurman really wanted to talk about. Plus meet the parents, foreign buyers and all cash consumers buying up luxury apartments in New York City and how to cheat on looking your best. You will be shocked. Literally. What you need to know about the Catalyst suit This is Bloomberg Businessweek. I'm Carol Massar. And I'm Tim Stanback. Stay with us. Today's top stories and global business headlines are coming up right now. You're thoughtful about where your money goes. You've got your core holdings, some recurring crypto buys, maybe even a few strategic options plays on the side. The point is you're engaged with your investment and Public gets that. That's why they built an investing platform for those who take it seriously. On public, you can put together a multi asset portfolio for the long haul. Stocks, bonds, options, crypto. It's all there plus an industry leading 3.8% APY high yield cash account. Switch to the platform built for those who take investing seriously. 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Learn how@AmazonBusiness.com@GSK, we believe that to get ahead of disease you need to understand its root cause. And that's why we combine our deep understanding of immune science with cutting edge technology. It helps us to create targeted therapies that match the right treatment to the right patient, transforming the lives of millions. By uniting science, technology and talent, we work tirelessly to get ahead of disease together. Visit gsk.com to discover more. This is Bloomberg Business Week Daily reporting from the magazine that helps global leaders stay ahead with insight on the people, companies and trends shaping today's complex economy. Plus global business, finance and tech news as it happens. Bloomberg Businessweek Daily with Carol Massar and Tim Stanweck on Bloomberg Radio. Plenty ahead in our second hour of the weekend edition of Bloomberg businessweek, including thanks mom and dad for the apartment. Just one of the trends going on in the New York City real estate market, and you may look like a superhero wearing it, and it just might supercharge your muscles while doing so. Our own Chris Rouser takes the catalyst suit for a spin. First up, fall may be the time when the air gets cool and Starbucks tries to get you to buy the pumpkin spice latte. But it also means it's the time the consumer tech companies show off their latest wares ahead of the holiday shopping season. And this year was no exception. With what you need to know on it all, we were joined by Bloomberg News Managing editor for Global Consumer Tech, Mark Gurman on the good, the bad and what Mark says will be the IT device of the holiday season. These are the Meta Ray Ban displays. These are Meta's first display glasses. I haven't set them up yet. They just came into the office. These are the first mainstream smart glasses with the screen and the lens. We've talked about them significantly and then it has what's called the neural wristband. You put this around your wrist and that allows you to track your finger movements and your motion in order to navigate the user interface of the glasses. So I'm actually really excited to diving in, really using them and eventually publishing my review. $300. They went on sale. It's some Ray Ban and LensCrafter stores, Best Buy stores. So excited to dive into these. What's the learning curve using this Mark? What, how do you have to be trained to use it? Do you have to do a demo to use it? Can you just use it out of the box? Is this, is it going to be easy for consumers? Yeah, they think that you need this crazy demo and so they're not letting anyone buy it who doesn't get the demo. I got the demo at Meta's headquarters a few weeks ago, so they were pretty comfortable with me just getting one out of the box. There's probably going to be some sort of, they tell me a video that plays on the glasses that you know when you first do the first boot, tells you how to use the thing. There's a little bit of a learning curve, 15, 20 minutes or so on the learning curve as well. And so it's going to take a little bit of time to get used to it if you're new to it, to get it up and running. But I think people will eventually like this technology. My hope is eventually it moves to a hand and eye tracking like setup. So you don't need the neural wristband, something similar to how the Vision Pro is operated. But definitely, I think this is a category that's going to take off. Unbelievable. I know when you talked about this last time, I mean, kind of, I think both of us were blown away and, and looking at your video that was on the Bloomberg about how to use it learning curves, you know, there's these videos to kind of have, you know, we figure out how to use things. But when I think about learning curves, Peloton, I feel like is still on a learning curve and the stock has swung. They're upping prices. Explain this to us and is this the way forward for this company? So it's a, it's a mixed bag, right? The stock is down probably because of the changes in pricing. They hiked prices between a couple hundred bucks and seven hundred bucks on the high end, depending on which bikes or treadmills you're looking to purchase. They, they hiked subscriptions between a couple bucks and five bucks, depending on which subscription you're getting. So Wall street doesn't like that because that's going to lead to regression, even more regression in terms of user numbers. It's going to lead to people leaving their, their subscriptions. It's going to lead to people maybe not wanting to buy the devices themselves because of the higher price points. And so, you know, Wall street usually likes a price hike, but in terms of Peloton, they really seem to despise it. On the other side of the coin, I think the hardware that they rolled out today is extraordinarily impressive. This new CEO has been in the building for a little bit less than 10 months, actually, I think maybe 10 months to the day today. And they've got five or six new hardware devices under the prior CEO who was there two and a half years or so. They did basically nothing in terms of new product launches or innovation. So I think they deserve a lot of credit for working overtime and really fast to get this new equipment out. And so we'll see what really happens with these user numbers based on these price increases. But clearly Wall street is terrified. Okay, let's move on to another wearable in the oura ring, a $500 version of its smart ring. This one ceramic. We should remind everyone a lot of this stuff coming out right now because this is the holiday season. This is when people do holiday shopping. We traditionally get a lot of new devices and gadgets out during this time. Mark this new Oura ring. I was surprised that Oura has such a high valuation now. Raised money. Bloomberg News reported on this in recent weeks. What can you tell us about this ring and what it does for the business or could do for the business? I think it's going to do nothing for the business. This is absolutely the same ring that they launched, I think it was last October. It's the Oura Ring 4. It's just coming out in a new finish that's $100 more expensive. So it's the ceramic finish. I have the ceramic blue one arriving at the office tomorrow, so. So looking forward to taking that for a spin as well to see if there is anything more meaningful about it. But this is just probably a marketing lever and maybe raise ASP slightly. Okay, $500 for a smart ring. Interesting price point. Let's see what happens. But Aura is a really fantastic business. But the problem is is that there are $10 billion in terms of the valuation right now. So they're too expensive to get acquired. Right. And they're not worth enough to be like some major hardware company. But they're getting there. They need more types of devices. They need to expand beyond rings into other types of hardware. Yeah, I was going to say when it comes to things like this, technology, devices, consumer tech, Mark. I mean, are we that easy? You know, you just put a different finish on and we're like, yeah, I'm going to spend the money. We're not that easy, are we? Depends. Sometimes, maybe, I don't know. We'll see. I don't think people are going to buy the ceramic version. I think it's going to be super niche. I think people are more into the couple hundred dollar version. The reason these are doing so well is because of like fsa, hsa, whatever accounts people are using that to buy these devices. And then a lot of people, maybe not a lot of people, but some people have the Amex Platinum. Yes. And the Amex Platinum. They just did their big price increase. And as part of that there's like a 200 annual Oura ring credit on there now unfortunately. And they should change this. That doesn't work with the subscription. You have to pay like six or seven bucks a month to use an aura or $70 a year. But the $200 a year you get from Amex, it's kind of a scam because you need to buy the new hardware. And Aura doesn't come out with new hardware every year. That's neither here nor there. But that might be driving some purchases too. Is this, is this is Aura. I mean, you wrote the story, you know, just a couple of weeks ago about the multibillion dollar valuation. Is this a hardware company or is it a software company? Software as a service? Well, it's both. They would be kind of, they'd be fine if they didn't have this subscription, but it's really the subscription and the annual subscription in particular that I think is driving things. You know, they always say hardware is hard, hardware is very bad. Margin wise, it's not a good business. But when you're able to put a software product on top of it that has a 9, 80% margin, you're in pretty, pretty good shape. This is why Apple shifted to services almost a decade ago now because they knew that hardware sales were flatlining. They knew margins could potentially go down. They knew they would have to adjust prices. And the way to create recurring revenue is putting something on top that's, that's necessary. And Aura and Whoop and some others have Peloton of course, is the poster child of this, have figured out this hardware plus software business model. All right, speaking of hardware, let's go to your story that's out about Amazon overhauling its devices is to take on Apple in the AI era. What do we need to know and what kind of stood out for you? They look really cool. I think, I think Panos, he's the SVP of hardware now at Amazon and Alexa and Services, has done a really nice job on redesigning the hardware of the Echoes. And the Echo shows three new Kindle Scribes. These are Kindles that you can read on, but you can also write on and draw on. It's sort of like a scratch pad. I think they look terrific and these are going to do pretty well. The new Color Scribe, $630. The most expensive Kindle device ever. I think actually the most expensive device from Amazon since the failed Fire Phone from a decade ago. I think it's going to do really well for me. I actually like this new mid tier Kindle Scribe. It has a backlight, it looks like real, really nice bright white paper, but obviously digital. So I might get one of those to do some reading. I need to go back to reading and maybe I'll get one of those for the holidays. Don't we all? I'll send you some books, Mark. In the meantime, just very briefly, we didn't get a chance to talk about the Nest branded hardware again. I said it would be sort of around the world. With Mark Gurman in terms of tech devices, what do we need to know about Alphabet's lineup? It's kind of whatever. The most interesting thing to me is they announced this hundred dollar speaker, but it doesn't come out until the spring, which I guess is anywhere between March and the end of May. Why they released it so early or announced it so early before the release only, I don't know. God knows. I guess they wanted to just tell a more cohesive story and try to get out in front of some of the Apple announcements coming up in the next several months. Moving to 2K video quality, I think that's good. Ring at Amazon the other day or Yesterday they announced 4K video. So it's kind of interesting that Amazon and Google are completely two different spectrums of video quality in the same week. Hey, really quickly, 20, 30 seconds. What do you think is going to be the big hot consumer tech item this holiday shopping season? Ooh, smart glasses, I think the, the Ray Ban meta glasses I think are going to do pretty well. And of course the iPhone 17 Pro has just been blockbuster for Apple. They can't make them fast enough. So this is really big stuff for Apple this year. Hey, we're speaking with Mark Gurman. He's Bloomberg News Managing editor for Global Consumer Tech. He joins us from Los Angeles. Mark, more on the H1B story. You know, we saw so many tech CEOs just a couple of weeks ago at the White House. At that dinner. I was surprised to see a decision such as this from the President, given that it would affect the companies that these individuals run so negatively. Why don't you think we've heard a collective message from the tech community on the H1B visa issue yet? Oh, I mean, Tim, you know the answer to that. It's because they're scared of Donald Trump and they don't want to push back on this H1B visa issue, only for Trump to hit back at them with tariffs or starting to charge Apple more tariffs than they're already paying today. Right. I think they are worried if they fight on this issue, they'll come back and be hit harder on other issues, maybe issues that they consider more fundamental to their lobbying efforts. You're not going to see Apple push back publicly against this H1B issue, they would have done so already. Instead, they're going to work with lobbyists and other groups behind the scenes to have them do their bidding for them. But you're not going to see them push back publicly. That's not going to happen. That was Mark Gurman, managing editor for Global Consumer Tech. After we spoke to Mark on Wednesday, he reported that Apple has hit pause on a planned overhaul to its Vision Pro headset to redirect resources toward a more urgent effort developing smart glasses that can rival products from Meta platforms. The smart glass war it is on. He loves these things from Meta. It's like, right? We talked about all these things when we had him join us and he's like, wait, wait you guys, I don't want to talk about anything. He's forget about everything. I want to talk about these glasses. Focus on these glasses. I mean, he told us this a couple weeks ago when he was, you know, at their headquarters trying these for the first time. He said these are, these are game changing. He's a tough audience and so when he's really into something, you know, you really take notice. All right everybody, you're listening to Bloomberg Business Week coming up. Thanks mom and dad for the apartment. And hey, thanks everybody for paying all cash for apartments. It's just one of the trends, or maybe a couple of the trends happening in the NYC real estate market. This is Bloomberg. You're thoughtful about where your money goes. You've got your core holdings, some recurring crypto buys, maybe even a few strategic options plays on the side. The point is you're engaged with your investments and Public gets that. That's why they built an investing platform for those who take it seriously. On public, you can put together a multi asset portfolio for the long haul. Stocks, bonds, options, crypto, it's all there plus an industry leading 3.8% APY high yield cash account. Switch to the platform built for those who take investing seriously. Go to public.com and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com paid for by Public Investing. All investing involves the risk of loss, including loss of principal. Brokerage services for U.S. listed registered securities options and bonds in a self directed account are offered by Public Investing Inc. Member Finran SIPC crypto trading provided by Bakkt Crypto Solutions LLC. Complete disclosures available@public.com disclosures how can you free your team from time consuming office tasks? Amazon Business empowers leaders to not only streamline purchasing, but better support their teams. Smart business buying tools enable buyers to find and purchase items fast so they can focus on strategy and growth. It's time to free up your teams and focus on your future. Learn more about the technology, insights and Support available at amazonbusiness.com@GSK we believe that to get ahead of disease you need to understand its root cause. And that's why we combine our deep understanding of immune science with cutting edge technology. It helps us to create targeted therapies that match the right treatment to the right patient, transforming the lives of millions. By uniting science, technology and talent, we work tirelessly to get ahead of disease together. Visit gsk.com to discover more. This is Bloomberg Business Week Daily with Carol Massar and Tim Stanweck on Bloomberg Radio. Mortgage rates in the US Rose at the end of September for the first time since July, shifting direction after a steady string of declines. Now, even with that uptick, borrowing costs are still around their lowest levels in almost a year, creating opportunities for both house hunters and owners seeking to refinance. In Manhattan, home sales jumped to the highest level in more than two years as affluent buyers armed with cash thanks to a boost from the stock boom and last year's rich Wall street bonuses, forged ahead on deals. For an update on the New York City real estate picture, we recently checked in with Louise Phillips, Forbes. She's a real estate broker with Brown, Harris Stevens. She's been in the industry for more than three decades and has close to $6 billion in sales. Look, my old motto is, you know, marry your home and date the rate. And brokers have that motto. I, I mean whatever I was whenever, wait, marry the home and date the rate? Yes. I mean I had my first mortgage, guys, my first mortgage was like 8.35 or something and I had it as low as 2.85. And you know, so, and I, so I just think that, yeah, I think it's about getting educated and the buying power shifts. And I always say, certainly in the last 18 months I'm like, listen guys, it's okay to buy when interest rates are high. If you can afford the carry for a period of time, you are paying less for the home than if it was lower. But some people have been carrying that for like three years now and they thought, okay, well I can do this with like a seven year ARM and it'll rates will drop. They haven't, but they are. And those individuals got much more home if they are inconvenienced. Listen, I had a roommate when I bought my apartment first because to me it was about owning my home Instead of renting. So we make compromises and you don't go on that extra trip for if you. If you want to be in that school district for your kids. So those decisions were made and have been being made. But the market, you know, is definitely this fall is feeling. There's an energy in it, despite it being an election. Oh, you're about New York City. New York City. Our market specifically. Yeah, Sorry. No. I am curious though. When it comes to activity, are there multiple bids still? Give us an idea, give us some color around sectors happening? In some cases, yes. Sector. Yeah. Well, I think that the one bedroom market, I mean, listen, I did a development project that I converted and I've got a couple of left at 393 West End Avenue, a 792 square foot one bedroom just rented for $7,000. Huh. So if you can own, try to own. So the one bedroom market has seen, especially if you have low carrying costs, they are seeing multiple bids. Anything under 2 million is also very efficient if it's priced right. If you're not priced right, it's not happening. And the market is very knowledgeable and observant. Meaning buyers. What about the higher end? What are you seeing with foreign buyers? We love to talk to you about where those buyers are coming from, if they're back. It depends on what country, but they are. They've doubled in the last year. At what level? I think that the low, the lower end. We don't have the a la gartes necessarily, but. But you have people who are looking for the future and want to pull money out of their government or their country. Where are they coming from? Mexico, Ukraine. We've seen for myself a lot from Korea and a lot from China. So, okay, so we love to talk, obviously real estate, but also politics and how it plays in. So give us an idea because that's interesting. In terms of foreign buying, have you noticed an uptick in terms of the political winds? How? Well, I think I have somebody trying to purchase a piece of property from me who basically says, I'm concerned about the mayor and they're trying to buy from. From Jakarta. And I'm like, how much? You know, like, were you here when de Blasio was here? Were you here when, you know, weave lived through difficult mayors or mayors that were not pro real estate. But I think that it becomes a conversation for people as a negotiating tool, more so than it's preventing them from making a decision. So I find that negotiating. So if they want to buy something, somebody has some pressure to say reduce the price. Because I'm a little worried. Yes. And if I, if, if I've been on the market for 60 days, which I have on this piece of property, and it's still sitting, and they're like, listen, I'm happy to pay this, I'm not going to pay that. And I'm not concerned. I'm happy to wait till after the mayoral election. And the truth of the matter is that people, if you look at the rhythm of deals historically during these elections, there is a surge afterwards, but it doesn't change the result, no matter what the result is. What happened during the de Blasio administration to real estate, you made reference to it. I just think that, I just think that they were decisions that were not collaborative. And if you think about in 2019, I mean, the, the rental law of 2019 that prevents conversions from occurring, that was all actually Cuomo. And Cuomo is not that far from the policies that Mandami is holding. And I would say that in, in my interpretation, in my understanding that a lot of politicians in these times make a lot of promises that are not actually able to be accomplished in the manner that they're trying to. The collaboration of the state is necessary. Exactly. I'm glad you brought that up because that's one thing that we talk about all the time, is like you need to have all the Albany on board to make a lot of these things happen. So it might sound, Look, I'm not talking about any specific candidate in, in particular, but you know, there are promises that are made on a campaign trail. If you don't have buy in from Albany, you're not necessarily going to, to be able to enact those policies for sure. And I think that that is, that is by design so that there can be simpatico between the two or negotiations of those two offices. But I, I just think that how to accomplish better housing, you can look at the things like for the 485, the new tax that has just come in, that's our new 421. Yeah. Which is affordable housing. I think that the restrictions that have been put forth into that new tax abatement, it may not lead to as much housing as we're hoping because of some things like there, if you do a unit, more than 100 unit building, your minimum income, I mean, your minimum wage goes up, costing 20% additional hard cost. So it's just a delicate balance. And I just remember the days when you wanted a developer bought a certificate and somebody sold it to somebody else and they do what they do, which is build amazing affordable housing. And it's just gotten a lot more complicated. Yeah, it's a, I mean I just feel like when it comes to a lot of major cities. Right. Affordable housing, it's just, it's something we've been talking about for, I feel like forever and you can't do it. One politician can't do it. It has to be the state, it has to be the city and it has to be the city assembly and a longer term commitment to doing it. We are talking with Louise Phillips Forbes. She's real estate broker Brown Harris Stevens here in our Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio. A couple of rapid fires. So home staying on the market longer. Yes or no. Like in the. I know. Compared to. I guess it's shortened in the first two quarters, elongated a little bit in the summer and it seems to be a little more efficient in the coming weeks that we've seen in September. Although it's, it's hard to figure that out based on the Jewish holidays as well as getting back to school. So first time home buyers, are we seeing more of them older than they've been in a long time? Average is 40 years. All right, what about parents buying places for kids all day long. All day long. And it's not for. It's with and even grandparents. Because honestly the conversations the council that I've had with some family members is you can give it to them after you're gone or they can enjoy it today. And I, and I just had that happen today. An accepted offer where we're facilitating that. And I mean I have a, I mean I talk to my kids about that also. I mean they really want to work hard for what they have, but I would rather be with them enjoying it. And they. And I'm their debt. I'm their institutional debt. All right, Another one I just want to ask you real quickly, cash buying all cash still strong. Cash is king. Is that the foreign folks or. Not necessarily. Most of them are foreign. But people. That's okay. That is typical because of how they pull that money out. It's also too complicated to try to get credit for them if they're not a resident. Does that make sense? So, so cash is still king for them. But again it is really. We're doing deals that are through a trust and they're the institution, they're the bank. So they're coming across as cash. That's my rapid fire list. Okay. I just want to make sure you got through all of those. I have one that's like that has, that might have a little longer of an answer. Consolidation in the industry. So the big news this week, Compass is buying anywhere for one and a half billion dollars. Anywhere. People might not be familiar with the parent company, but they own Coldwell Banker, Corcoran and Sotheby's International Realty. How does that change your world at Brown Harris Stevens? Listen, we've all been observing the Zillow Compass battle around the private listing. And, you know, let's be clear, rumor was it, and I don't know if it's factual or not, but Berkshire Hathaway was what, the original hope of the first choice for, for Compass to acquire when that was not possible anywhere. You know, they have a lot of debt and that, that senior debt, it's only a stock exchange. What it does for them in the New York market is they're capturing 40% that market. It'll be interesting, but because of Corcoran and Corcorans, you know, Corcoran Banker. Right. They're smaller, but they're, they're national. Yeah. And, and I would say that, you know, it gives them a strong hold on a market that they really want. So how much of New York City does will Compass have? 40% of the market share right after the acquisition. And, and I think that what I would say to that. And again, bigger is not always better. It's really hard to maintain culture. And there are179,000 new agents. And how do you feel? Special. You know, And I, I mean, Robert Rufkin is an impressive young man and a major, a major operator and a visionary. So I respect and admire him. I'm not a fan of the private listing platform. That was Louise Phillips, Forbes real estate broker with Brown Harris Stevens. She specializes in New York City. All right, everybody. Still ahead on Bloomberg Businessweek, what Bloomberg's Chris Rouser calls the little cheat when it comes to feeling fit. I discovered the Catalyst suit, which is an EMS suit. It's a stim suit like you. Like physical therapists use. After you get an injury, they kind of zap your muscles with electricity and it encourages your muscles to work harder. More of it tenses up, and then it heals. It heals stronger. He joins us along with the owner of Catalyst, maker of the Catalyst soup. This is Bloomberg. You're thoughtful about where your money goes. You've got your core holdings, some recurring crypto buys, maybe even a few strategic options plays on the side. 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And suited up in the Catalyst Gen 4, you might look a bit like one of the Avengers. It's pretty cool. It is all part of looking and feeling your best as Bloomberg Pursuits Editor Chris Rouser writes about the new issue of Bloomberg businessweek with pursuits devoted to the pursuit of wellness. Here with more is Chris Rouser along with Brendan Kennedy, the CEO of Montemare. It's the owner of Catalyst and they both are here in our studio. Welcome, welcome. First of all, I got to start with you Chris. How did this come on your radar? I mean, I know you are always kind of the king when it comes to things that you can try to feel better, to look better. Yeah, I'm a fitness person. I'm a wellness person. I'll try anything once. If you ask me to do a form of exercise with you I will do it. So I've done everything. Solid core physique, 57, Zumba, you name it, I've done it. Hot yoga, hotter yoga, something in a chair yoga. Yes, yes. There was briefly a Pilates studio in Manhattan called Shay's 23, because you did all the exercises in a chair, and it was on 23rd Street. So at the beginning of the year, I just. Just was thinking about how overwhelming wellness has gotten. There's endless podcasts, the manosphere podcasts are just, like, telling you so many different things every week to do. There's businesses where you can spend, like, $7,000 a month, where you go and you get tested for all this stuff every month, get AI to tell you what to eat and what to exercise. It just feels very overwhelming. And I thought, okay, what's the response to that? What is my response to that? I want to cheat. I want to cheat code. I want an easy way out. I want to hack. And so we got the whole pursuits team together to think to, like, go out and do research and figure out what are, like, the hot wellness hacks right now. That makes it easier for you, because at the end of the day, what you really need to do is exercise. You need to sleep, you need to talk to people, and you need to eat well. That's basically all you need to do. So, like, what are the things that can sort of hack your way into doing those more easily? And so as I was doing my research, I discovered the Catalyst suit, which is an EMS suit. It's a stim suit like you, like physical therapists use. After you get an injury, they kind of zap your muscles with electricity, and it encourages your muscles to work harder. More of it tenses up, and then it heals stronger. And so that technology is now a suit that you can wear and you can do workouts, and it, like, supercharges your workout. Okay, I know the guy who owns the company is sitting right here, but I'm still going to put you on the spot, Chris, because I see technology like this, and I'm like, yeah, does it actually work? I have to tell you, it actually works. You're not just saying muscles through my blazer, but it really, totally works. I did it for six months after having a pair of injuries. I had foot surgery. You guys remember I fractured my elbow Do. I was, like, out of the gym for months. I felt kind of bummed about it, and it really got me back going. Yeah, you really see results that help my posture. I lost weight, gained muscle. All right, so Brendan, come on in. You are the owner of Catalyst. Talk to us about this device, kind of how it came to be and tell us a bit about the business. Yeah, so I joined EMS about four years ago and I was a little skeptical at first too. My wife had used it about seven years ago. EMS is electric electro. Electrical muscle stimulation. Exactly. And just like a doctor or physical therapist will put stim on you to heal a muscle, it's the same, same type of technology and doctors have been using it for six years. If you go to Europe, there are EMS studios where there's thousands of them, where people will go in and work out. I went in skeptically and tried it about four years ago during COVID and it's amazing. For me, it compresses time. I can get a two hour workout. Workout that would normally take me two hours in the gym. I can do it in 20 minutes. And it's a whole body workout. It hits the little muscles in your back that you might miss in the gym or skip a leg day. It's your whole body, 26 pads at once. And it stimulates your muscle. Just like your brain sends a signal to your muscle to contract, the suit sends the same muscles, the same signals and it hits 90% of your of your muscles. And so it's amazing. And it works. It's efficient, it's fast, it's safe, and it compresses time for me. So you were a client. I was a client. You became an investor and now you're the owner. Yes. It's something I'm really passionate about. I use it three days a week. So 20 minutes each time, basically an hour a week, that little prep, a little cleanup. But compared to changing and driving to a gym and working out for two hours, I can do it in 20 minutes. I can do it at home. I travel with it. It's spectacular. All right, so what does it cost? So the suit retails for $3,000. There's an app. App. And there's trainers on the app. So you pick. I want to, I want to focus on strength. I want to focus on cardio. Yeah, maybe I'm going to focus on my lower legs or my, my abs. I'm. I'm 50 years old. I've worked out in gyms for 40 years. This is the first. I've done Ironman. I've done marathons, I've done every kind of, you know, fitness activity you can do. I'm very active. This is the first time I've had abs at 53. Right. Like it's never happened before. And it's all because the suit. I can turn up the abs and hit those, hit those muscles. $3,000. You follow a trainer on the app and that person leads you through a 20 minute workout. People might know you from your days in cannabis, medical cannabis specifically. You were one of the co founders of Tilray. You led the company, it's publicly traded now. You're no longer involved in cannabis. What was the process that got you to buying Catalyst? And talk a little bit about the challenges the companies had before you came on board and what you're trying to do now to get it away from those challenges. Absolutely. So I think cannabis, you know, I started in Cannabis back in 2011, so 14 years ago. And back then people thought it was crazy, right? Like, what is, what is he doing? He went to Yale, he has an mba. Why is he going into cannabis? And he's throwing away his whole career. But I could see the future. I could see what was going to happen. I knew that country after country was going to legalize and US states were going to legalize. And so I saw the opportunity, I saw what was going to happen. I see the same thing in ems. If you go to Europe, there's these studios everywhere with people working out in suits. And I think five years from now, everyone in the US will be familiar with ems. They'll either have a suit or they'll go to gym and work out in that suit. Because it's the future of fitness. Well, Chris, I mean, you do cover so much about wellness and fitness. We talk about it with you all the time. I mean, how do you slot this in? What are you hearing kind of from maybe the industry about maybe. Is this kind of a next wave? Yeah, I mean, this is definitely. We've done stories about EMS suits before. Plastic surgeons in New York City offer it. There's some startups that offer sort of similar things where you go to a studio. For me, this really fit into my normal system of going to Barry's boot camp. You know, I'm a big Barry's person and doing my normal weight lifting. And then I added this in two or three times a week, 20 minutes. And that's where I really supercharged everything else that I did. And especially on a day when, you know, like Brendan said, if you're too busy or you're traveling or whatever, you can just kind of toss it in. And although I have not taken it on a plane before, so I brought it with me. So this is what it looks like. Is it heavy? Quite Big. It's not. Not really. So for those listening on radio, Chris is holding up the vest portion, but there's also that. That sort of. There's another portion because. All the way down. Yes. That's for your. Around your leg. That's in the legs. Okay. That's their armbands that go with it. And you have to get it wet for the stim pads to, like, really work, you know, with a heart rate monitor, too. It's kind of the same thing. Exactly. Very similar. So what do you see as your market? Is it a case of selling directly to consumers? Is it about setting up places like the peloton model to some extent where you could go and actually get on a Peloton. Peloton and be at a. At a physical location? I mean, peloton kind of went back and forth. What's the model in terms of growing this business? So. So right now there are thousands of consumers that. That own the suit, and they work out at their homes or at the office or in their hotel rooms while they're traveling, and they work out with the app. There are also maybe two to 300 studios in the US that use a suit. Many of them use the Catalyst suit. And so you can go to an EMS studio if you're mostly in a big city and try it. And so they use the Catalyst suit. And so it's both supplying to studios, and we're seeing more and more of those open and then also to consumers. What's the. What's the moat that you have here? Because if this is big in Europe, you're doing it here in the US People might catch on. They might see that it's working. Copycats could come in. What's that? What separates you? How do you protect the brand? I think there's two moats. I think the first moat is, oddly, an EMS suit is regulated like a toaster in Europe. And so. So manufacturers can just make them and sell them. Yeah. Here it's regulated by the fda, and so this suit is FDA cleared. So we went through the FDA process in order to sell it to consumers. That's. That's one moat. I think the second moat is the content. There's. There's hundreds of workouts online that you can engage in. The. The app actually is what sends the impulse. Impulses to the. That's what zaps you. And so the app zaps you. Yes. And so the app does it. Wait, can I use this for my family to get them to do other things? Just saying, no, forgive me. Go ahead. No, I think it's the content and the FDA clearance are really the two modes. What about competition or just the wellness world at large? Like, it feels like, you know, we go through these fads and waves and trends. Yeah. You don't want this to end up in the same pile as the Thigh Master. I think that. Hey. That everybody should have a Thigh Master. No, I'm just kidding. But how do you make sure? Like, I think strength is important no matter what you do. Right. And so I. I use my suit three days a week, 20 minutes I run, so I have cardio. You can, you know, work out on a treadmill wearing the suit. Yeah, people do that. But I think strength will always be there. Strength will always be important. It fixes your posture. Bone density for a lot of people is really important. People on GLP1 drugs lose strength. And so this suit helps people of different demographics and ages very quickly. You can work out while you're wearing the suit and also wear the suit independently while you're not working out, or you're always working out while you wear. There are people that do freestyle workouts, which means the suit is charging, impulsing, and they're folding laundry or doing the dishes or walking on a treadmill. I think you and I need these. You're still doing it real quickly. Yes. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I'm in. I gotta tell you, I go to a doctor, and they say it's all about strength and getting your muscles and building muscle strength. So it totally makes sense. Gentlemen, thank you so much. Really appreciate it. Brendan Kennedy, chief executive officer of Montemare, the owner of Catalyst, joining us here in studio along with with our own Chris Rouser, he's editor of Bloomberg Pursuits. You can check out and read more about Chris's experience. It was a really fun read. It's in the new issue of Bloomberg Businessweek in the Pursuit section. I'm in. I know you are, Chris. I don't know if this is where, like, we share. I don't think it works like that because it has to be sized to you. But actually, like, you and I, we could. We could maybe do it. We could try it. Cool. I mean, it's pretty cool. I love the idea. Yeah. I'm like you, Chris. I'll try any workout class once. Can I get one for my face? Like to tighten up the muscles? No, I don't. I don't think you would want that. It's intense. It buzzes you to your bones. Like, it really like you. You get used to it, but it really is a lot. It can be really hard. Are you gonna stick with it? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I'm gonna keep doing it, I think. Yeah. All right. Well, we'll keep you accountable. Okay. Please do. That's Bloomberg Pursuits Editor Chris Rouser, along with Brandon Kennedy, CEO of Montemare. It's the owner of Catalyst. And that wraps up the weekend edition of Bloomberg businessweek from Bloomberg Radio. Thank you so much for joining us. Be sure to tune in to Bloomberg Businessweek Daily Monday through Friday starting at 2pm Wall Street Time on Bloomberg TV, Bloomberg Radio and on Sirius XM Channel 121. You can also listen to us on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto Free in the Apple App Store or on Google Play. You can also watch our daily broadcast on YouTube. Just search Bloomberg Podcasts we're simulcast on Bloomberg originals, available at bloomberg.com originals and streaming platforms including Roku, Amazon Fire TV, Samsung TV plus and more. Find our Bloomberg Businessweek Daily podcast at bloomberg.com, apple or wherever you get your podcasts. And the latest edition of the magazine is available on newsstands now@bloomberg.com and always on the Bloomberg page. Terminal I'm Tim Stanweck. And I'm Carol Massar. Tim and I are going to go put on our Catalyst suits. I would try one of these. I would definitely try one of these. Have a great and safe weekend, everyone. Stay with us. Today's top stories and global business headlines are coming up right now. How can you grow your business from idea to industry leader? Bring your vision to life with smart business buying tools and technology from Amazon Business. 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