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Pinpointing the genetic changes that predispose us to disease identifying the roots of mental illness treating congenital anomalies even before birth at boston children's hospital we're investing in children's health today to ensure the well being of adults tomorrow as home to the world's largest pediatric research enterprise and more than two hundred sixty specialty programs boston children's is where the world comes for answers the learn more at bostonchildrens dot org did my card go through oh no your small business depends on its internet so switch to verizon business and you could get lte business internet starting at thirty nine dollars a month when paired with select business mobile plans that's unlimited data for unlimited business there we go get the internet you need at the price you want verizon business starting price for lte business internet twenty five megabits per second unlimited data plan with select verizon business smartphone plan savings terms app these days ai can help you adopt better time management but it can't stop colleagues booking meetings during lunch but how about being able to easily adopt industrial ai to streamline your business siemens xcelerator helps you find the right ai providers and easily understand what they offer so you can use modular solutions to quickly scale up and grow your business that's ai for real from the global market leader in industrial ai siemens learn more on usa dot siemens dot com ai bloomberg audio studios podcasts radio news this is bloomberg business week daily reporting from the magazine that helps global leaders stay ahead with insight on the people companies and trends shaping today's complex economy plus global business finance and tech news as it happens the bloomberg business week daily podcast with carol massar and tim stanvak on bloomberg radio hi everyone welcome to the bloomberg businessweek week weekend podcast well a big week for us economic data reads on the us labor market we got the fed beige book a few earnings continuing to trickle out as well we even hit an all time high on the s and p five hundred just head to the bloomberg or bloomberg dot com for all the specifics and for more clues on the outlook we leaned in big time on views from the c suite from industries that can tell us a lot about the us economy on that this hour we talked to the ceo of commercial construction company mckissick and mckissick which has worked on some iconic projects in new york city think barclays center the oculus yeah billie jean king tennis center i had no idea yeah they've done so much she joins us with a somewhat sobering view yeah it really kind of stopped us for a moment hey plus we've got the billionaire real estate developer who is in the midst of the rebuild after the la fires earlier this year he also may or may not be seeking public office in his home state of california that interview to come also for another read on the economy and the us consumer we speak with the ceo of the buy now pay later company affirm that's max levchin and later on in our second hour bloomberg power players new york we talk the business of sports with derek sprague ceo of pga america also baseball mvp legend and sports team owner alex rodriguez and gary bettman nhl commissioner and ted leonsis of monumental sports all that to come we begin with a look at construction spending on big projects think airports sporting arenas hospitals and more sheryl mckissick daniel is president and ceo of mckissick and mckissick it's a one two zero year old construction firm that's behind some well known and very large projects we're talking barclays center the oculus in manhattan the new terminal one at jfk international airport and lincoln financial field where the philadelphia eagles play much more too i want to start by just getting an understanding from you about the economy where it is in your view and if people are spending money i think people are holding back a little bit prices are high i know as far as the construction industry we are beginning to feel some of the tariffs and so yeah i think people are holding back on spending talk a little bit about where you're feeling the tariffs well one in particular i would say is jfk terminal one we're finishing up phase a of that project which is almost three million square feet in twenty twenty six but we are scheduled to start work on phase b and that's been pushed out i believe because of tourism has decreased quite a bit to new york city wow how much has it been pushed out well right now it's just slowed and it's been pushed out several months where else are you seeing that too in terms of projects that you guys are working on because your portfolio is just vast and you cover like we said academia just so many different kind of commercial aspects where else are things maybe being sort of slowed down pushed out well i mean i can only talk about the areas where we work which is in rail and transportation you know the fta i think has slowed on releasing projects as you know several of their staff more than i'd say fifty percent of their staff has been released and so it was very difficult for them to push out the capital program projects that they do have and so you know the gateway seems to be moving ahead just fine and this is the gateway tunnel between new york and new jersey yes okay yes yes and i just pray that that continues well let's i just want to contextualize that a single project of yours this is the terminal one at jfk international airport it's a nine and a half billion dollar in value project your firm is working specifically on the oversight of project management construction management as a government liaison you also handle community outreach so it really runs the gamut of what you're working on can you give us an idea of the pipeline not necessarily projects that have been announced or where the shovel is in the ground but but projects that you're talking to municipalities about projects that you're talking to academic institutions about that you're not necessarily ready to announce but give us a good idea of what that pipeline looks like in terms of how these entities are ready to spend well i think you know it's positive when we think about infrastructure projects waterfront projects with new york city economic development corporation i believe the mta projects are eventually going to move forward i think the big frontier is some of the microchip manufacturing plants like micron that's upstate new york that's one hundred billion dollars it's moving forward and then right after that i think it'll be the casinos once a casino owner once the three license are awarded do you think you'll see starting there and that will be billions of dollars do you think new york city will get one of these licen licenses who knows if i had to bet on it i would say probably not in manhattan but outside of manhattan so that would be maybe queens near the area close to citi field yeah queens yeah absolutely cheryl talk to us about the environment and as you mentioned about what's going on in terms of various government officials or departments that you know where folks have been let go and so what that is doing to different projects the political environment the federal political environment we talk about whether administrations you know are good for the business environment or not and we do have folks who come on and say that this is an administration that's going to cut back some of the regulatory issues and make it easier better is it not making it better easier for what you do i don't see evidence of that you know if you don't have people sitting behind the desk to actually push the work out i don't see it getting better and you know i have to shift to our energy crisis that can potentially happen you know now that the administration has really sunset all of the offshore and onshore wind projects that we terribly need to supplement our electrical systems i so i am very concerned about where we are headed we're speaking right now with cheryl mckissick daniel president ceo of mckissick and mckissick you mentioned the offshore wind bloomberg new energy finance bloomberg nef reporting that us offshore wind faces a twenty eight billion dollars hole with president trump's moves five under construction us offshore wind farms representing about twenty eight billion dollars of committed capital face severe delays and even cancellation after recent actions from the trump administration at mckissick and mckissick do you work on offshore wind we do not work on offshore wind but i am a board of advisor for national grid and so i understand how critical these other resources are to our our grid you know there's a high demand for electricity buildings that are being constructed now are one hundred percent electric we have the ev cars we have the data centers and so electricity is critical for us and i believe well we definitely were counting on these wind farms as another strong resource to help us supply the electricity we need you sound so pretty negative now i don't mean negative but down on the environment and i guess we were really looking forward to talking to you because we're trying to get an idea of the way forward in an environment where there's a lot of presidential pressure to cut interest rates and there are some who say well wait a minute the economy's doing just fine we don't need that i'm just trying to understand is it just the overall environment because of politics or is it higher rates like what is it that you think is causing kind of the biggest issues for you i think it's politics well do you feel targeted can i ask you as the owner a minority owner of a business no i don't feel targeted personally i think for some reason there's a focus on dei programs and it has not affected our business in new york but it has affected our businesses in other states where municipalities have had to suspend their dei programs if they wanted to get funding from the federal government and so that is somewhat of a concern now i hope that we continue to be isolated from that in new york i don't know how much longer that will last do you could you know on the website i noticed the firm is referred to as quote the oldest minority women owned professional design and construction firm in the united states do you ever consider because of the political environment that we're in right now not necessarily highlighting that no i do not feel that way that's why i recently wrote my book the black family who built america i'm so glad that it is coming out in this time and in this age because it is a account of our family history after two hundred years when the first descendant of our family came to this country and laid his first brick we are still here and we are an unshakable pillar of ingenuity and resilience and this book is all about saying you know this is a receipt to say that we've always been here and we're not going anywhere black excellence may have been ignored but that doesn't mean it's not here cheryl you gotta come back and join us it's great to have you back here cheryl mckissick danielle the new book is called the black family who built the mckissick's two centuries of daring pioneers it was out last month cheryl mckissick daniel president and ceo of mckissick and mckissick pinpointing the genetic changes that predispose us to disease identifying the roots of mental illness treating congenital anomalies even before birth at boston children's hospital we we're investing in children's health today to ensure the well being of adults tomorrow as home to the world's largest pediatric research enterprise and more than two hundred sixty specialty programs boston children's is where the world comes for answers learn more at bostonchildrens dot org there's nothing like sinking into luxury at washablesofas dot com you'll find the annabe sofa which combines ultimate comfort and design at an 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them is what we hear from the people who are big players in this economy caruso has over two point five million square feet of property assets all owned and operated by caruso all capital too coming from within the assets include upscale retail resort office and residential properties all across southern california rick caruso has been investing in and developing property going back to nineteen eighty seven yes he is the man behind the firm rick caruso he's also a philanthropist a former president of the la police commission was part of the board of water and power commissioners and has been involved in politics notably running as a candidate for la mayor in twenty twenty two he leads a nonprofit aimed at accelerating private sector involvement in the la area's massive rebuilding effort known as steadfast l a rick joined us from los angeles he began by discussing his view of the economy particularly in southern california i think it's still very robust to be honest now you know the data that i look at is obviously off of our properties and our properties are growing in terms of attendance on a double digit basis year over year so that's very strong our sales per square foot are continuing to grow at a very strong pace and we have a lot of demand for retail space so retailers the best in class retailers are growing you take a look at a broader picture i think there's a little bit of softness out there in some of the categories luxury is not growing as much as it it has there's some luxury retailers that are suffering a bit but i'm still pretty bullish on the consumer in the united states we should remind everybody the properties and the developments that you've done have really served at the higher end of the consumer people even outside of the los angeles area would be familiar with the grove for example or perhaps miramar in montecito just around santa barbara but the vast majority in the southern california area what about southern california's economy that economy that you focus on what have you noticed in terms of changes in the last couple of years as we've heard the steady drumbeat of information about people leaving the region because of regulatory regulatory environment the cost pressures what have you well i think you're right and i think it's a challenge so when you take a look at l a city in particular louisiana county you do have a very overregulated tough business environment and it's very tough especially on middle or small businesses to operate in the city because of the cost of operations so you do have businesses leaving and that's troubling because the backbone of our economy in southern california are the small businesses so you know one of the things that we push for i push for as just a business person and a member of this community is to be more business friendly and to start deregulating so we can grow businesses in the los angeles region and i think as a state we have a problem with that we have businesses leaving the state of california going to regions that are more business friendly have less red tape allow businesses to thrive on a much easier basis so you know hopefully the tide will change on that but it's certainly an issue in southern california and i think california in general yet you remain rick you have not moved to arizona you have not moved businesses to arizona to texas to florida these areas of the country where people from california have been going as a result of regulatory easing one could say do you do you will you stay in california well i'm bullish on california i'm going to stay in california i believe in it i think we should be leading the nation in california i think we should be leading the nation in los angeles and i also have a practical problem you can't pick up large projects and move them i can't pick up the moving so i have to remain engaged bullish and hopefully we change the trajectory and i think we will i really do i think people are at a point certainly in the los angeles area that they've realized that the path we're going down is not sustainable we've got a budget in l a city that's one billion dollars out of budget we have revenue decreases in l a city because businesses have pulled back and left and we don't have new capital and investment coming into l a like we should they're going into other regions even immediately outside of los angeles you have cities that are doing incredibly good jobs the city of glendale the city of culver city that are more business friendly are safer cleaner more supportive of you know great neighborhoods and they're attracting the business at the cost of l a city so we've got to change that but i remain optimistic that change is coming soon how are politics getting in the way of all of this and i ask it rick you've got california governor newsom and president trump really in kind of high stakes feuds over a bunch of issues whether it's california's universities their environment redistricting redistricting excuse me and other issues i mean talk to me about that and whose side are you on in all of this well i'm on the honestly i'm on the side of the people of la and the people of california here's the problem that i have with the battle that's going on we've got some really serious problems that need to be dealt with crime shortage of housing homelessness etcetera the cost of living in california having an argument between the governor and the president between the mayor and the president a lot of name calling going on doesn't advance anybody's cause to solving these problems so what i hope is that we get past the rhetoric figure out a way to sit down find some common ground and work together here in los angeles we have three hundred thousand acres in pacific palisades malibu and then also at an altadena that was burned to the ground the size of two manhattans to put it in perspective for new yorkers we need federal help we need federal funding and we're getting none of that and i don't think as the bickering is going on and the name calling is going on that serves any purpose in advancing the negotiations of the discussions and getting federal help in los angeles we're speaking with rick caruso founder and executive chairman of caruso the privately held real estate company on the federal aid on the federal funding have you had conversations with president trump or members of the trump administration expressing the need to in your view for federal help for california in the wake of these disasters i've had those discussions now with the president directly but i've had those discussions with intermediaries i've certainly had that discussion with our governor and we need to find a way to get those discussions at a higher level and more productive i know there's some talk governor scott or senator scott was out here in los angeles and talking about it but it really is critical path because you have hundreds of thousands of people that have been displaced you got jobs that have been lost you have a massive massive rebuilding effort that's going to take tens and tens of billions of dollars in infrastructure so we need the federal help it just has to happen well you know it should have yeah no i hear you and you've since the fires i know tim and i just kind of preparing for this listen to a lot of conversations you've had with various individuals about this in terms of what needs to be done you know what's interesting is need more federal help in terms of the rebuilding efforts so then how do you feel when president trump illegally used federal troops in la i mean if you were mayor there how would you respond to president trump and his threats and use of troops like that's going on when obviously as you say there are efforts needed to do the rebuild well i've been very clear the federal troops coming into la were wrong and i don't think it should have ever happened i would have gone to court immediately they finally did go to court as you know the court ruled that it was an illegal use of those troops to come into the city of los angeles in this region so it's not right to be doing that and we don't need to be doing that i mean that just this power grab that's going on does not advance the cause for any it just doesn't and the division between the politics is harmful to the residents of los angeles we've got to find some common ground we've got to act like grownups we've got to put our differences aside as elected officials and figure out how to how to work together and so i would hope that our elected officials find a way to drop the name calling maybe get on a plane and get over to washington and see if we can find some common ground to work together we also have the olympics coming here so los angeles is going to be the world stage for the united states and we need to be putting our best foot forward and we're going to be need to be making a lot of investments in order to do that and again we need to have the help of the federal government to do that so rick i'm kind of waiting for the flood of my emails to come into my bloomberg because i think people are listening would say well this is the kind of folk you know individual you do want in politics so what's your latest thinking on maybe running again for mayor or possibly governor of the state of california well i'm seriously looking at it and i've got a team of people that are working on it and i'll make a decision soon on that and i'm looking at both paths and there's good opportunities in both paths but now i'm just remaining focused on what we're doing at steadfast making sure we're getting people back in their communities as quick as possible yesterday i spent the afternoon in altadena we were giving out grants for small businesses to get reopened in altadena we're doing the same in palisades and in malibu so those kind of efforts are incredibly important to me because again small businesses are critically important for jobs and we're giving out about a million dollars in grants over the next couple weeks so that's what i'm going to stay focused on for now politics will come down the road fairly soon all right we want to talk about some of those efforts you're doing in terms of the rebuild i got to ask you though if you do run or make a decision would it be for mayor or for governor i don't know yet we're going to find out i'll let you know okay i'm going to hold you to it i'm going to hold hey rick i'm curious about just fire resilience in california especially in the wake of palace states i'm from the central coast i was glued to watch duty because of the gifford fire just a couple of weeks ago i mean i spent you know ten days just refreshing that thing watching the progress of that fire what is the right way for californians to be ready for what has become just a part of daily life for a big portion of the year well we have to have very smart brush management you know one of the problems in the palisades we had forty years of brush that were not maintained by the state the county or the city that was rocket fuel we have to have water i mean it was an unbelievable circumstance that we had reservoirs that are empty so the competency level at the government and being prepared is critically important la city was not prepared for this fire this fire in my opinion and i think in most people's opinion that have seen the facts is this fire could have been prevented certainly significantly mitigated in terms of the damage and then we have to be encouraging people to build with non combustible materials fortunately that we built survived it but it survived it because we were prepared to fight the fire but equally important we built it with non combustible materials and so it was able to withstand the fire around us and we had a lot of smart people doing some things so we can build better and smarter but we also have to have better infrastructure you know the fire hydrants need to work they were not working in los angeles the reservoirs need to be full and this is an opportunity right now to rebuild malibu pasadena altadena and palisades in a way for the next hundred years and to get the right infrastructure put in it's an incredible opportunity to create these communities for the future and that's why we need to work with the federal government get the right federal funding and get some smart leadership locally that builds it back properly so that we are can withstand fires and other natural disasters in the future the can be done the nonprofit you are leading as we said called steadfast l a you've got companies such as netflix amazon jpmorgan chase cbre group so many who are working to restore these communities but you guys are looking at everything you're using ai how long do you think it's going to take for the rebuild and ultimately are we talking about kind of the cities of the future in terms of the materials used and how it's done you know i think it's going to take there's going to be phases i look at it what's going to be happening one year from now three years from now five years from now one year from now for example the little downtown of the palisades is going to get reopened we're going to rebuild the park steadfast is leading the park rebuilding schools are getting back reopened and we're involved in supporting the school systems and getting reopened same in altadena same in malibu i think in three years you're going to see a lot of the homes back and running we have some really encouraging programs with an alliance of builders who are coming together to buy in bulk be able to build less expensively and so that's really important to do and i think in five years we're going to be in pretty good shape getting these communities back on its feet the biggest challenge we have honestly is the lack of diligence the lack of urgency from the local governments to get permits issued and we've got to speed that up and cut the red tape both in the county and in l a city so people can rebuild hey rick before we let you go i want to talk a little about your family foundation that's been involved at this point for more than thirty years in watts the caruso family foundation and it serves organizations a slew of organizations in the area and i'm just wondering you know the focus is on health care it's on education at risk kids i'm wondering why we need organizations to step in and fill the gap that isn't necessarily provided by other organizations why do we need the caruso family foundation to do this when will your work be done and you won't have to help bridge that gap well i don't think our work is ever going to be done but i have to tell you something it's one of the most rewarding parts of my life and my wife's life and my family's life that we can help kids that are at risk living at or below the poverty line and you bring opportunities to them and the right education and the right support we have kids that are living in some of the worst and toughest conditions in l a and they're now at harvard mit georgetown usc ucla and they're just excelling and doing it on their own because they had the right ecosystem around them and the right start and the right support and a government alone can't do everything it never has been able to you have to have philanthropy and people need to give back and lean in and support churches and schools and all these great organizations that we have out there and what i would argue for is we need more people to be leaning in we need more foundations to be giving back because the reward and the payoff is so great and so huge and it really does change these communities and because these kids are coming back and helping others i just find it one of the greatest parts of my life is being involved and being able to see these kids just take off and do great things well we're going to end it on that optimistic note that makes us i think all feel really super good rick thank you so much really appreciate your time and efforts and we're going to mark our calendars to check back with you about maybe that political decision you may make very very soon rick caruso thank you so much be well founder executive chairman of caruso joining us from la this is the bloomberg business week daily podcast listen live each weekday starting at two pm eastern on apple carplay and android auto with the bloomberg business app you can also listen live on amazon alexa from our flagship new york station just say alexa play bloomberg eleven thirty this past week swedish fintech giant klarna officially launched its long long anticipated us ipo the company is aiming to raise up to one point two seven billion dollars through its new york stock exchange debut under the ticker symbol klar makes sense this marks a revival of its ipo plans which were paused earlier this year amid market turbulence meanwhile affirm klarna's u s based buy now pay later rival has reason to celebrate after posting strong fourth quarter earnings leaping back into profitability after a disappointing first half of the year according to bloomberg intelligence fintech analyst dick shagara affirm appears very well positioned to turn an operating profit in twenty twenty six with continued expansion in adjusted operating margin to be fair a firm shares man they've been on a tear for more on how consumers are choosing to spend and the state of their business we caught up with max levchin he's co founder and ceo at a firm he's also you might recall a co founder of paypal the affirm consumer that is the folks that we approve for transactions and each transaction is separately underwritten so we do have a very discerning eye as we underwrite these loans they're doing great they are shopping demand for our product is accelerating we just posted another accelerating fourth in a row quarter of gross merchandise sales they're doing really well repayment is really strong credit is steady to improving so we lend to a huge percentage of the us population so you could infer from that that us consumer at large is doing well as well so i think the rumors of the american demise are greatly exaggerated that is you know that said we continue to watch every metric we can all the time because that that's what our job is are those metrics stronger now max than they were say a year ago again from a firm's point of view we really are firing on all pistons our ability to serve folks has improved about twenty percent year over year that's measured in transaction frequency our user base grew about just north of twenty percent as well so consumers are joining us our user active acquisition has accelerated for the sixth quarter in a row so there is a meaningful secular shift from credit cards to a firm so i think again within our ecosystem every metric looks very good and better than last year can you talk a little bit about what transactions affirm customers are using the payment system for are they using it like they would use a credit card right now what's the typical transaction what's the transaction size that's a great question and it's a little bit differentiated between players so i can only speak to us the average ticket for us is just under dollar three that should tell you a lot so everything from a truly considered purchase like a nice bicycle maybe a couple hundred dollars all the way down to a large party supply maybe a couple hundred dollars those are sort of the bookends we tend to believe that really really low ticket items dollar twenty is just too small of an amount to finance with a firm so we have a notion of you know where we start trying to tell our consumers hey you know what this seems like a good idea to be a cash transaction but generally speaking because the product we offer is just so much better than credit cards for the end borrower we're very pro idea that a firm should be used in place of credit cards full stop if you think of it very quickly it is an obvious idea so we don't charge late fees we don't compound interest we don't do deferral or any of the sort of a gimmicky things that look too good to be true because they are too good to be true so it is a honest financial product that really really helps the end borrower get full grip on their finances and not get into trouble not get over their skis so directionally the more they use a firm for everything i think the better off the consumer is going to be that said the current average is dollar two hundred ninety seven i think how often does somebody that miss a payment or they're late and then what happens as a result what kicks in i'll be honest i'm not a huge user well i mean have you ever used it i think i've used one of them and i can't remember once because i was curious about it you know and i set it up so things just got paid and it was like three payments or something because i was curious about it because we talk about it all the time here grew up where you could put stuff away you know stuff on layaway so it's interesting to see the evolution but i am curious max how often is it that somebody is late and then the terms start to change and you know this is a business right so that's actually thank you for that prompt that is let me let me try to make one there's one thing i can make clear in this conversation i just really want to hammer this one home nothing will change terms will not change fees will not appear interest will not change no dollar amounts will change if something happens and you can't make your pay your bill on time the fundamental promise of a firm is what you see is what you get when you're borrowing dollar five hundred and you're committing to paying let's say another dollar twenty five of interest if you cannot make it on time it will still be dollar five hundred twenty five there will not be a penny more than if you prepay and pay us early that interest amount will come down so it is a profoundly pro consumer product that that said i just wanted to make that very very clear you are a better financial product about ninety eight percent of our consumers are never late never never into fall and so it's fundamentally extremely extremely high probability of none of that will will ever happen to you if you are within the firm ecosystem when folks are delinquent which is a fancy term for late with their payment we'll reach out to them we use all sorts of digital channels to get in touch with them we'll remind them vast majority of folks that are late are actually what's called sloppy payers in the industry where they say oh my god i forgot to set the auto pay thank you for using that feature if you did and they cure it and so it goes and so the reason we don't charge late fees is because for folks where they really cannot something happened and they lost their job or something happened they're not going to pay you any faster if they have no means of paying you back the ones that are just stumbled somehow and forgot the reminder is the most you need to do you don't want to penalize them for being forgetful so what is the default rate it's on the order of two percent plus or minus that's remarkable well it's meaningfully lower it's meaningfully lower than credit cards by the way are lower ticket items that trend below one percent so just to give you a sense the rumors of this being a bad financial product creating hidden leverage in the system is like bad math and ridiculousness so so push back on that a little bit but do it through the explanation of the business model here because i think a lot of people approach this product with being informed about how credit cards work and the idea that high interest if you miss a payment fees if you miss a payment in a sense the risk is somehow put on a different party here max and there's also buy in from the retailer who partners with a firm just explain how this whole transaction works yeah very simple you typically find a firm at a point of sale on any online and now progressively more offline merchants you will ask to use the product so it's always an explicit request to borrow and we take great pride and put a lot of technical emphasis on underwriting every transaction individually so that we have the discretion to say hey you're overextending yourself these two percent two and a half percent default rates don't come for nothing we do an enormous amount of work in this underwriting engines that we've built so as you get approved through your real time application of course what happens we pay the merchant and you commit to paying us back over time and we always give you a menu of choices could be anything as short as four payments every two weeks could be as long as thirty six months once every month the rest of it happens more or less automatically if you opt in to the autopay feature if you don't we will send you a reminder and then you arrange for repayment from your bank account typically and that is it in our case there is no compounding the interest is the interest expressed in dollars and that is what you commit to it will not go up independent of any modifications to the schedule there are no late fees in our case again we are unique or almost unique i think at this point in the industry by just not charging any incremental fees at all and so on so this really is the product where the cornerstone value is transparency we are entirely transparent with every participant in the ecosystem from merchants to consumers everyone knows what they're getting into you get your bicycle or your couch or your putty supply today and you pay for it over time and you know exactly when the payment plan stops and then you're no longer in debt it is a better time to credit cards because when you use credit cards which are very convenient you don't have this extra approval step so you know just drop the plastic and on you go you're adding to this giant bucket of debt that just sits there and revolves the interest compounds into principal every month every week whatever it is you've accrued in interest becomes a part of the base that accrues interest on interest on interest that is why credit cards are so expensive the reason apr matters as a measure is because it doesn't just measure interest you'll pay on a principal it's the interest you'll pay on the interest on the interest and so on the model we invented the reason we are so important the reason people are coming to us frankly the is they don't have to understand exponential mathematics to figure out what is the true endpoint of interest will be whatever it is we promised them that's exactly what they pay we're speaking with max levchin he's the founder and ceo of a firm the twenty nine billion dollars market cap fintech company also you'll notice caroly keeps talking about bikes he's a big cyclist so spends a lot of time on the bike so is tim by the way max oh we know we follow each other i know you guys do hey listen one of the things i want to ask you your stock is on a tear it's up fifty percent year to date it surged as much as twenty five percent intraday in response to your earnings which you've been talking about that came out late august you had analysts several of them raising the price targets on the stock what's the path to sustainable profitability what do you need to see happen to kind of keep the momentum going we just need to keep doing exactly what we've been doing you know the joke i make all the time as we are an overnight success fifteen years in the making profitability is not an accident we gave this date exactly a year ago where we said look twelve months from now we'll be gap profitable two years ago we said hey twenty four months from now we expect to get profitable and so we've been on a journey that we planned years ago to deliver on all these milestones and so the celebration isn't of some clever overnight idea that we've had and finally just poked our head from the unprofitable side of the fence we've been planning to be profitable we've delivered on this plan we have said publicly we intend to be gap profitable from this point on that is not a thing you can decide last week and deliver tomorrow it's something that you build over a long period of time takes discipline takes execution it takes a great team which i'm lucky to have and so yeah i'm not worried about that whatsoever whatever we commit to we tend to deliver on well speaking of time it's been a long time coming for klarna and its ipo and it does plan that here in the united states competition in the space is definitely max picking up they are specifically rapidly expanding here in the us you've got sezzle that stock is up about seven thousand percent less than two years there's a lot going on so how are you seeing the competitive landscape evolve and what does that mean for you guys specifically at a firm you know we're very happy doing our thing as i just extolled for a little while we are different we do our thing a little bit differently than the rest of the industry we have a very strong point of view on what is and isn't moral what isn't isn't right for the consumer for the merchant partners that we have you know it's it's paid great dividends for us and our shareholders so in that sense we intend to change absolutely nothing part of why maybe i spend less time looking at the competition than one does in a competitive industry and this one is certainly very competitive is in aggregate by now pay later is still just under one percent of total us retail and it's a worldwide phenomenon and us is actually quite behind if you look at markets like australia and the nordics where buy now pay later is more mature there the penetration into e commerce is on the order of twenty twenty five percent i think in the us it's a much more polite seven percent maybe and if you expand it into offline which there's no reason why this doesn't work offline in fact we have a card that's been growing extremely well better than one hundred percent year over year just in the last quarters report we're a fraction of a fraction so the opportunity to provide more honest financial products is you know i said it in my shareholder letter sort of tongue in cheek it rounds up to infinity and so for now we're not really running into each other in the hallways fighting for that last same customer or merchant i'm sure one day we'll get to a point where it's so significant as a part of us economy where it becomes you know a zero sum game but even in that world there's a visa to a mastercard and for now i think we're all just experiencing really good growth and frankly the fact that the market now will support a couple of large publicly traded companies it's probably a good thing that just gives shareholders a sense for this has a long way to go in terms of growth hey max before we let you go just thirty seconds on crypto and stablecoins an opinion piece this week coming from paul davies of bloomberg opinion he wrote that stablecoins an opportunity for merchants and airlines to recover costs from big banks and networks like visa and mastercard is there a use for digital assets at a firm i think there are interesting opportunities around merchant settlement which is sort of i'm echoing what this piece is saying i'm not yet seeing consumers spending stablecoins they have acquired in droves and so as a back end mechanism stablecoins are very interesting and we're certainly looking at the opportunities there on the consumer side i think folks are thinking in dollars and probably will continue to do so all right got to leave it there hey max thanks for carving out some time for us max left again founder and chief executive officer of a firm max of course just a great voice when it comes to what's going on in the fintech space we're going to have paypal fame a paypal fame as well part of the mafia as they say tired of spills and stains on your sofa washablesofas dot com has your back featuring the annabelle collection the only designer sofa that's machine washable inside and out where designer quality meets budget friendly prices that's right sofas start at just six hundred ninety nine dollars enjoy a no risk experience with pet friendly stain resistant and changeable slipcovers made with performance fabrics experience cloud like comfort with high resilience foam that's hypoallergenic and never needs fluffing the sturdy steel frame and short longevity and the modular pieces can be rearranged anytime check out washablesofas dot com and get up to sixty percent off your annabe sofa backed by a thirty day satisfaction guarantee if you're not absolutely in love send it back for a full refund no return shipping or restocking fees every penny back upgrade now at washablesofas dot com offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply this is jacob goldstein from what's yous problem business software is expensive and when you buy software from lots of different companies it's not only expensive it gets confusing slow to use hard to integrate odoo solves that because all odoo software is connected on a single affordable platform save money without missing out on the features you need odoo has no hidden costs and no limit on features or data odoo has over sixty apps available for any needs your business might have all at no additional charge everything from websites to sales to inventory to accounting all linked and talking to each other check out odoo at o d o o dot com that's o d o o dot com in the heat of battle your squad relies on you don't let them down unlock elite gaming tech at lenovo dot com dominate every match with next level speed seamless streaming and performance that won't quit and push your gameplay beyond limits with intel core ultra processors that's the power of lenovo with intel inside maximize your edge by shopping at lenovo dot com during their back to school sale that's lenovo dot com lenovo lenovo you're listening to the bloomberg businessweek daily podcast catch us live weekday afternoons from two to five pm eastern listen on apple carplay and android auto with the bloomberg business app or watch us live on youtube plenty ahead in our second hour of the weekend edition of bloomberg businessweek including putting sports back in the spotlight i don't know have they ever left the spotlight i feel like just feels like the spotlight is shining brighter than ever i mean there's more money than ever going into these things and also the way that these teams are being valued it's remarkable valuations off and running hey we're going to take you to some of our favorite conversations from this past week's bloomberg power players new york summit held here at bloomb headquarters in new york city where we talked about the booming billion dollar sports and entertainment industry with some of the biggest names in the space a lineup that included the ceo of pga of america on reshaping golf's future and the hosts of the deal jason kelly and baseball legend alex rodriguez on the deal shaping the business of sports all of that to come we begin with someone who's redefining how sports entertainment and fan experiences collide in the nation's capital ted leoncis is ceo of monumental sports and entertainment it's the company behind some of the biggest washington sports teams think nhl's capitals the nba's wizards and the wnba's mystics msc also commands a portfolio with around seven point eight billion dollars in assets it's a lot it's grown a lot in the last few years ted joined us from the bloomberg power players summit at our headquarters in new york city along with nhl commissioner gary bettman i think ai is really the next big thing with sports oh yes totally how well right now we're redoing our building and all we're talking about is physical ai how do we collect data how do we with the three million people that come into our building where are they coming from how old are they who are they married to how long have they had the tickets what are they like where do they eat what do we what can we do to be anticipatory with our building it's not just smart buildings anymore it's build the intelligence and the data right into that experience you know i just want to ask you ted because you were at aol in the early days i mean this is before you were in sports you were in technology so you understand the space is are we at a moment now that is is like when aol brought us the world wide web well i tried i think the leagues it seems like it's been a long time but it's been a quick pivot to go from analog and bricks and mortar and linear distribution and local to be a global digital power plant if you will that we look at our teams obviously they have high fanability but it's ip and how do we digitize everything that we're doing from the start and distribute it over our own channels that's why we bought our rsn everyone was running out of the burning house we said let's run in there will never be a better time to buy and reinvent the distribution model than there is right now gary i want you to come in on the role of technology i think all of us when we're watching sports i love it whether it's tennis whether it's golf whether it's baseball the statistics that come up hockey sorry sorry i was getting there i was getting there sorry sorry sorry well that's what i wanted to get to though like you know how fast the puck is going or something like how much fans love that engagement i'm going to respond to that but i want to add on to what ted said just so you know i have four brothers and growing up in an ice skating pond that they dug out of the woods in the back and would play high i knew i liked you and your family but sports tends to focus people at an instant at a moment in time the score of the game what's the result i don't think we're at a moment of time i think we're on a journey and we've been on a journey for decades and the speed limits change on the road road conditions change there are curves there are hills but at the end of the day it starts with the authenticity of sports and how important sports are in people's lives and how it brings people and communities together and technology has enabled us to connect better with our fans so ai we're like any other consumer business it's going to help us do business better but also it going to help us make sure that our games stay true to themselves i always tell particularly my tech and strategy guys we're not going to change the game to make it more tech savvy or tech you know favorable what we're going to do is use technology to make the game more consumable more connected and so puck and player tracking and hl edge is a function of that we're gathering millions of data points a minute but it's enabling us to take people inside the game maybe even people who don't know the game and understand it and let them say wow that puck you know traveled fourteen miles with averaged eighty eight miles an hour this player can skate as fast as thirty five miles an hour and he's already skated six miles in this game this gets people to understand and feel more connected and it's going to let us give them the game on their terms because with all the streaming platforms you're going to be able to sit at home and decide how you want to watch the game not the way we've done it from a linear standpoint since i was a little kid right and people my age are used to sitting on the couch and doing it but we get front of my dad and be like you know get down get down because you couldn't rewind but if you're a gen z or a gen a and you want to focus on a particular player and you want dana simultaneously and you want to place a bet you're going to be able to do all that and buy a jersey all at the same time in addition what what puck and player tracking has enabled us to do is use the metaverse we use animated versions of our game in real time we were the first sports league to do that and it works really well and it engages young people and their parents you know i'm thinking about this all this and i'm thinking about the technology and thinking about the investment that that's being made and it reminds me of the way that we've seen sports turn into this premium experience now and the premiumization this idea of it being a luxury good and i'm wondering how you think about that ted and how you know it's not like you go to the ball ball well i guess ball games are still affordable but apart from that i mean some tickets just end up being so expensive how do you think about that for your customers many of us have run big public tech companies and when you come into sports you say oh the model is like a software company we have nothing but blue chip clients naming rights sweet sales big sponsorships media deals with the biggest companies in the world amazon and nbc comcast and disney espn and they pay us over ten years or longer with escalate so the model looks just like salesforce does or oracle those are very valuable companies it's why they're valued at a multiple of revenues not a multiple of ebitda okay so that's what's happened to sports teams it's this we're we're six times eight times ten times twelve times revenues right but for those of us who came in from public companies and tech companies i go we don't have an army r d budget think about that we didn't have a cto we were one of the first teams that i mean we made a major hire we we have software developers there's like no software developers in these teams that's a big part of the pivot right if you're going to be digitized or die if you're going to try to get your your products and services out and build brand and build audience on a global basis it all starts with taking a pixel and digitizing it and we're now i've owned the team twenty six years but there's now a lot of the big markets and more innovative companies that have said yeah we are we're not just a hockey team you've got to have the hockey team as the ethos you know for the competition for the fans but as a business these have become big businesses we're going to be doing two years from now a billion dollars in revenue you were valued at about four billion dollars back in twenty twenty three with the guitar investment we've been valued now close to seven it's big growth in three years good business it's good business but we're doing seven hundred fifty million dollars in revenue but the landscape and it relates to everything that's going on with the distribution of content no matter what platform you're talking about live sports is the most compelling most valuable content and that's what's driving the values that you're seeing right because there's so much stuff out there but you're right people tune in right it's reality tv i mean it really is but i think one thing that people miss too the world's in chaos and it's not going to get more calm but there's something about you go to a game and you know the puck's going to drop at seven o six you know where the game is going to be televised you know where your seats are the players know if you make the wrong pass it's you know goes over the blue line they know what penalties are there's referees and while there's people boo guardrails i'm saying that there's there's structure right yeah i was amazed at the world cup yeah you have countries fighting each other at war with each other yet they get on the pitch and it's i know this line is out of bounds that this is a boundary i think we crave that we want a level playing field and you want meritocracy and you want to see how people can compete and yet politics geopolitics have played gotten their way into sports and i think about the nhl being kind of the most international and canadian of all us pro sports and yet geopolitics coming to from the white house whether it was over trade and tariff policies we saw that play out certainly it did during the four nations in february when canada was playing the us in two games including the final game but what's great about sports and it transcends geopolitics because sports brings out people's passion and it brings people together even if they're rivals their common interest in seeing the game and the outcome and even within a particular country you know no matter how diverse a country is on whatever basis you're figuring out what the diversity is people come together it brings communities together and when you have assets franchises like ted has in washington they make a difference in people's lives their outreach in the community their youth programs youth using sports to teach young people life lessons that's as important as anything else that we can do in sports and i think monumental what ted does in washington is a great example of being outward facing in the community and making a difference so we helped the white house have the inaugural at our arena we were called the world's most important arena and that same week there was a study out on who is the most popular and best athlete in washington sports history and it's a russian alex ovechkin he broke wayne gretzky's record last year and he is beloved in washington dc yesterday we announced a naming rights deal with coupang south africa korean company e commerce company where we're global right we are exporting our ip around the world we have these icons these great global brands advertisers want to reach those fans and so you know it's just ironic here we are in washington dc as i said i can see the white house and while their church on things sports is the great uniter and didn't that poll also say that you were the most popular owner let the record show ted did not answer the question i think you guys need a little you want to be modest it's good it's good to hear that it's good to hear that that sports really kind of brings people together we do see that over and over gentlemen thank you so much thanks for having me ted leon says founder chairman managing partner and ceo of monumental sports and entertainment gary bettman commissioner of the nhl gentlemen thank you so much this is the bloomberg business week daily podcast listen live each weekday starting at two pm eastern on apple carplay and android auto with the bloomberg business app you can also listen live on amazon alexa from our flagship new york station just say alexa play bloomberg eleven thirty more from bloomberg power players new york this event that brought together influential voices from the business of sports to identify the next wave of disruption that could hit this multi trillion dollar global industry next up a name gotta say that baseball fans are very very familiar with so are bloomberg fans familiar with alex rodriguez has long been known as one of baseball's brightest stars but in recent years he's become almost as well known for what he's done off the field from co owning the nba's timberwolves to wnba's lynx a rod has shown how retired athletes are approaching business he also co hosts a podcast for bloomberg it's called the deal with alex rodriguez and jason kelly yeah that's why he's so familiar to the bloomberg audience as well a rod joined us at the power player summit alongside his deal co host bloomberg originals chief correspondent jason kelly we've had a crazy last couple days because we and you're gonna love this one carol because i know you're a fan of this person the first was erica badon who is former erica nardini she ran barstool she had some incredible stories and then yesterday robin arzon from peloton who you and i interviewed way back in the day i mean alex that was unbelievable i mean she's a force of nature and we what a story right to be a litigator lawyer one of the top firms in new york and then around twenty eleven says you know what i'm going to do a radical pivot and she cold emails peloton gets the job and one of the most things i mean there's so much to admire but the fact they've been to the moon with their stock right over thirty billion dollars market cap and now is you know obviously a lot less than that and she has stuck it through and we asked her about it and she gave a fantastic answer that's my tease for yeah the other thing that she said which is so funny so this is how i mean i'm gonna tell a little bit behind the scenes inside baseball inside baseball inside baseball about the about the deal and this is how i know that i think the show is really working is we literally sent each other voice memos this morning saying like independent of each other saying my favorite part of the interview with robin arzahn was this thing that she said and you'll have to wait to listen to what it is but that was kind of a cool moment where we basically like in this forty five minute conversation there was one thing that we were both like i'm going to use that in my day to day life and i do think one of the things that we've started to achieve with this show is like sort of a level of intimacy with our guests you know they tend to open up you know we had in this most recent season we had bill belichick on you know a pretty rare business side interview you know i think he told us stuff that you know he hadn't really talked about before and really talked about his approach to coaching what it's like to sort of take this new job in college sports and so i mean we're having a ton of fun i mean this is fun another fun one timely wise because you mentioned time is mark shapiro they rang the bell and they took tko public and he gave us some fascinating stories going back to the bob iger days and what he was doing at espn and how he a rising star and now he's obviously the president of tko and endeavor so so many great stories and now people are starting to reach out to us and saying hey can we be well that's that's what i was going to ask alex i mean now that it is the third season you're not necessarily having to knock down doors the way you guys did just two or three years ago in order to do this how are you thinking differently about the conversations and who you want on the program well i think jason reminded me yesterday that we've done around fifty shows so we're getting some reps we're getting out there we're dropping one every week which is the consistency is key in podcast and anything just like your job here and i think we're thinking bigger and we're thinking you know how do we think outside the box how do we storytell but i think robin from peloton was like the epitome of everything right you have a lawyer who's now in fitness who's now you know one of the most influential fitness people in sports in the country well and i think you know to to build on what alex is saying i think one of the key things that we think about with our show and honestly you know infuses everything we're doing today with power players is you know from the beginning and this is why i think you know alex really bought into our shared vision of this is we're talking about the intersection of business sports and culture and i think you know there's a fair amount that's being done around business and sports you know it's it's undeniable what's happening there but i think and we just literally talked about this on a panel that i moderated with tom garfinkel from the dolphins and mike garage the ceo of aries this amazing cultural impact that sports has on everybody's lives at a time when we're so polarized we're so divided you know alex is you know very involved on the board of university of miami university of miami beating notre dame at hard rock stadium last weekend was an unbelievable moment like in the broad culture i mean it really was incredible yeah and it had a huge number on thirteen million people right and that is a huge number right and it's one of these things especially after covid i think and tom talked about it in your in your last panel that people still want to come together in a stadium to have seventy five thousand people cheering on remember the old history like bringing the old days back for the university of miami convicts versus catholics right it's pretty awesome and the fact that we won i'm very very happy about that we're speaking of course with alex rodriguez chairman and ceo of a rod corp also bloomberg originals chief correspondent jason kelly talking about the newest season of the deal and more is that culture around sport today is that a lot different than it was when you played oh there's no question about it i mean i think michael araghetti was talking about you know ten fifteen years ago the ownership landscape looked a lot different a little bit you know his words a little bit more sleepy and i'm paraphrasing and the sophistication with the newer owners that have come in with the ability and the appetite to take risk while still being disciplined but you know it takes a certain amount of you know a cowboy or a bit of a poker player to innovate and keep pushing the envelope and making these assets assets a moat but then as all the businesses around whether that's a stadium networks you know what the atlanta braves have done is incredible they did seventy five million dollars of extra cash flow for the team i think that's the new model moving forward thank you for mentioning the brave that was very nice but a random person here we should know it for everybody who doesn't know already but one thing smart co host so smart so smart so thoughtful but you know i'll sort of toss it right back in the sense that i do think to answer your question tim one of the things that's also changed is in in these years that we've been doing this alex has become the majority owner of an nba and a wnba team and i do think being able to you know we talk a lot about you know in our partnership sort of the roles that we play in the conversations that we have with our guests and i think alex's now ability and and curiosity and willingness to essentially say to people whether it's robin whether it's erica whether it's ted leoncis who's been on our show whether it's belichick to be like hey listen i'm doing something new we had sue bird on our show yeah you know wnba legend you know to be able to say like listen i'm doing something new help me understand this new job i mean that i do think that sort of unlocks something do you agree for sure especially like they just handed us the keys about call it a few months ago and it's fun for us to think we just brought in a new ceo in matthew caldwell who was formerly at the florida panthers worked for my great friend mentor vinnie viola who's won two titles back to back no it's just really the other thing that has changed jason i think is now we've brought institutional capital into the game and if you think about the ninety two professional sports team when you include the four major leagues nba nfl nhl and major league baseball that changes the whole landscape of the ability to find some liquidity put that money to work and keep growing these assets you know i think there was always the worry though and i posed this question to both of you of a lot of money coming in gambling coming in what that does to the sport has it let me start with you alex has it changed sports overall all this money in additional question there's a new data point that came out that blowout games in the fourth quarter quarter in the nfl we're doing better numbers in the second and first quarter and that's because of fantasy football and the interest level that is no no longer about the score the nfl has found another hook to like if they needed one to bring in more fan base and become even stickier i thought that was fascinating because most people in the fourth quarter if it's a blowout they're done net net good yeah what depends it's complicated it is complicated look and there's regulations you have to obviously put guardrails around everything right but i mean or money in college sports so i think so that's the one so that's the one that i think is probably it was funny i was talking with the the athletic director of ohio state who was here on a panel and we have dartmouth athletic director joining us in just a few and what i said to him which he did not disagree with is what has happened in the business of college sports over the past five years is the most radical thing that has happened in any sport in the past one hundred to two hundred years i mean there's no question yeah because the entire business model has changed the amount of money coming in has changed i mean even the idea so let's use university of miami university of miami the reason they won that game almost i mean not completely but a huge part of it is because the former quarterback of the university of georgia was done playing at georgia he was headed for the nfl got a call from the university of miami and said hey bro hey carson beck we'll pay you four million dollars to come to university of miami which was probably four x what he would have made his first season in the nfl if he got drafted and then he goes down plays in front of a bigger crowd in front of a you know in a in a higher profile game higher viewership you know than than he would have gotten if he had even been on the field in the nfl that's a radical different like that's complete it's a game changer is it a good one is it like a so i mean listen i think if you it depends if you're an investor there is certainly a lot of investing to be done around it i think there to alex's point about guardrails there need to be new guardrails you know one of the things the athletic director said was like we are literally making this up as we go along which is crazy i mean like none of us can do that in our jobs and it's like i try as you know but like we can't actually do it yeah i mean imagine in any league without a collective bargain agreement yes without a union without what is the exchange if you signify a player for five years guaranteed he can't just go on to the you know the opponent over there the rival so i think especially with the young kids i mean look i have a junior a girl who's a junior and a young lady that's a junior at the university of michigan and i have a senior this year in high school and i couldn't imagine one of my girls getting five six seven million dollars today and they're not equipped for it right yeah well and the other thing and to your point bill belichick on our show said this is actually harder than coaching the nfl because it's free agency all the time all the time so the kids can move around yeah and they will move around yeah there's we were talking about portal with talking about with a colleague here his son can just log in to a portal and go somewhere else and he is going to move somewhere else and if you look at some of the great coaches that we've lost from these institutions whether you go to bill you go to saban nick saban you go to coach k you go to coach wright from villanova a tough name for my georgetown buddy here here but but i think one of the reasons they're leaving is if you scream at a kid he's going i'm out i'm going to georgetown or i'm going to university of miami and that wasn't the case back then so what does this do to the pipeline going into the pros right now i think the i think college football becomes nfl junior yeah and i think it really just becomes an extension and so you start to what it could do is you could have more in some form or fashion carson beck's who opt not to go to the pros because they're going to make several million dollars you know playing in college for an extra year and then i mean big time football is going to just get bigger and bigger and college is going to be a part of that so alex i'll ask you the same question i was asking you about sports gambling net net is this a good thing it's interesting right because i still remember the days with p rose right i think the answer we don't know yet i think depending college sports sports for college sports i'm not sure about that but i will tell you what one correlation if you know just to back up what jason was saying is you know you've never had companies stay private longer whether it's stripe or whether it's many of many examples i think you can have an example of players staying in college longer because they can develop they can go to the university of miami for a senior for four million dollars the kid over at michigan the quarterback twelve twelve and a half million dollars so it's a different world yeah so eight years in college and still no md degree but they got a lot more money yeah they got no student loans we just got a few seconds left here got a dream guest that you still guys are like if they're listening real quick roger federer oh oh good one roger goodell oh good one all right couple rogers listen up so rogers if you're listening roger that ready well done guys thank you good luck on stage thank you ready to talk to you just in time all right of course jason kelly chief correspondent bloomberg originals alex rodriguez chairman ceo of a rod corp they are the co hosts of the deal the third season it is underway you can find it wherever you download your podcast life's messy we're talking spills stains pets and kids but with annabe you never have to stress about messes again at washablesofas dot com comma discover annabe sofas the only fully machine washable sofas inside and out starting at just six hundred ninety nine dollars made with liquid and stain resistant fabrics that means fewer stains and more peace of mind designed for real life our sofas feature changeable fabric covers allowing you to refresh your style and anytime need flexibility our modular design lets you rearrange your sofa effortlessly perfect for cozy apartments or spacious homes plus they're earth friendly and built to last that's why over two hundred thousand happy customers have made the switch upgrade your space today visit washablesofas dot com now and bring home a sofa made for life that's washablesofas dot com offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply this is jacob goldstein from what's yous problem business software is expensive and when you buy software from lots of different companies it's not only expensive it gets confusing slow to use hard to integrate odoo solves that because all odoo software is connected on a single affordable platform save money without missing out on the features you need odoo has no hidden costs and no limit on features or data odoo has over sixty apps available for any needs your business might have all at no additional charge everything from websites to sales to inventory to accounting all linked and talking to each other check out odoo at o d o o dot com that's o d o o dot com in the heat of battle your squad relies on you don't let them down unlock elite gaming tech at lenovo dot com dominate every match with next level speed seamless streaming and performance that won't quit and push your gameplay beyond limits with intel core ultra processors that's the power of lenovo with intel inside maximize your edge by shopping at lenovo dot com during their back to school sale that's lenovo dot com lenovo lenovo you're listening to the bloomberg businessweek daily podcast catch us live weekday afternoons from two to five pm eastern listen up on apple carplay and android auto with the bloomberg business app or watch us live on youtube wrapping up our bloomberg power players new york coverage on bloomberg businessweek we yes had to talk a little bit about golf with so much going on over the last year or two we had a great voice the head of pga of america which is home to the revered ryder cup derek sprague is ceo of pga of america he joined us alongside bloomberg news texas bureau chief julie fine from bloomberg power players in new york yeah so we're the pga of america so commonly known as the coaches of the game the administrators of the game the club professionals right there's sixteen thousand clubs in this country and we have pga professionals at nearly ten thousand of those clubs so you'll see a pga professional if you go to a golf course whether that's a public facility or a private facility you'll take lessons from our pga members versus the pga tour which that's what you see on television every week the elite part of the game is the pga tour however we work very closely with them because a lot of our pga members are coaches of their tour players right you know during the pandemic golf really exploded because it was one of those sports that early on people realized they could do and it was low or no risk have you seen that growth continue it's been incredible you know we haven't used social distancing seen word in a long time but golf pga of america actually went to bat during the pandemic to say because as states were shutting down we said hey golf is a safe sport and i think what we're seeing today you know five years after the pandemic is that growth continuing because as i told julia earlier families got together right they were all living together they got to play the sport together you got to play with your kids and your grandkids in a safe environment outdoors and small groups all the things that social distancing lend itself to and we've seen that retention today we have more golfers in the game we're up to like twenty eight million in this country five hundred fifty million rounds of golf were played in twenty twenty four it's just incredible growth since the pandemic i mean i think in terms of the financial aspect of this game what surprised me a little bit that we discussed earlier is the global impact on and what a difference global sponsors are making the biggest changes you've seen in ryder cup in that aspect yeah this year the ryder cup here in a few weeks in new york city's backyard out in long island and beth page is we have about two hundred eighty corporate partners and thirty of those are from around the world we certainly have our worldwide partners at the pga of america for the ryder cup but we have thirty partners from australia and japan coming in they're not even those countries aren't involved with the ryder cup but they're investing in the ryder cup because it's a it's a live sporting event one of the most epic sporting events in all of sports not just golf how do you think of the the role of the riders cup in the midst of what feels like a divided golf world right now how important is that yeah i mean i think i think we're past that a little bit carol but but i it's certainly divided when you talk about the ryder cup because you know it's going to be loud and ruckus on long island the europeans are coming in into our home court so to speak and as we call as keegan calls it our captain calls it america's course now it used to be new york's public course but it's america's course that week so yeah it'll be divided that way the crowds will be divided but i think the investment in golf is now global like i just mentioned and so many people golf is booming not only in this country it's booming globally now more golf courses being built around the world because of more golfers from around the world playing that are playing over here in america they go back to their hometown and home countries and help start the game there since the inception of the liv tour what we've also seen boom is the purses i mean these players are making a lot more money because of this really competing tour what do you see the future of all this yeah i see it plateauing a little bit you know we saw you know that was again we're different than the pga tour but it certainly increased our purses at our majors you know all three of our majors the kpmg women's pga the senior pga and the men's pga which we'll be holding at our home course at frisco texas there so yeah the purses have grown but i don't think they're going to continue to grow at the rate they have in the last few years might you see the ryder cup grow beyond the united states yeah i mean we play it every other year so it's only in this country and i think that's why the demand is so high for this year's ryder cup one being in new york city metro market it's a great market to hold an event it sure is and then and then we'll play it it'll be in ireland in twenty twenty seven so it goes back and forth every two years just to show you the magnitude a half a million people register for tickets for this year's ryder cup only fifty thousand a day will be coming to it but a half a million right and then we had thirty thousand on the list of volunteer thirty thousand say hey we'll come and work we'll buy a uniform we'll come out there and work we'll have about four thousand volunteers out there but do you expand it beyond the us and europe no i don't think so because this this this event goes back to nineteen twenty seven we're coming up on our one hundredth anniversary in ireland in two years and i don't see that changing changing at all i'm wondering about accessibility to the sport here in the us and how you grow that pipeline especially for us players we just went to the us open last week we broadcast from there every year and and every year we hear from the usta about their efforts to increase the ability for kids to go out and play tennis a sport that oftentimes is associated with country clubs similar to golf what needs to be done in the us to increase that pipeline for young americans well the pg of america has been doing it now for over ten years and we have a program under our pga reach foundation umbrella called pga junior league we put these kids in jerseys with their names and numbers on their backs we'll have them out here at ryder cup so you'll see a little sprinkle of that cheering on their favorite players or whatever but we had last year in twenty twenty four we had seventy seven thousand juniors play so our pg of america golf professionals they form these teams at their facilities they compete against other teams from from nearby facilities and then we'll have a national championship actually in frisco here in a few few weeks so i mean and that'll be televised on espn so even junior sports are seeing the big time on television right so again our pga professionals are hard at growing the game and pga junior league is just one of those great programs probably the most successful program we've ever had for growing the game you have some really big names in golf right now you look at like a scottie scheffler from our neck of the woods texas really actually is becoming home to a lot of pro golfers now but you look at him you look at bryson dechambeau overall you've got a lot of younger players they're really appealing to people via social media and different means and you've got a traditional base as well so how do you marry that yeah well i think i think the younger generation they're they're getting you know they grew up a lot of them in this video game world so now technology has helped them get in there they got range finders and they're checking the yardage on their watches and stuff i mean it just connects them to the game and then when you look at the alternative off course things like topgolf in those type of venues and you got some right here in the city right you can go play golf inside the city here at some of the venues here so i think that's transferring to whether you play nine holes or play a short course or play eighteen holes all these alternative forms of golf have helped elevate the game especially with that demographic and when they go all in on something and i think other ceo's would tell you this whether it's a certain product or a certain sport they're all in that demographic they go they're not doing the mile wide an inch deep they're going a mile deep and an inch wide so when they get on to sport a certain sport they're staying with it but derek you know like every everyone is competing for our eyeballs right now there's so much content out there and certainly just even sports content there's so many different choices so how do you guys kind of figure out how to expand your audiences in a way and then still stay kind of true to the traditional aspects of the game yeah well i think that's what the sport does the multi generational part of our sport where you have you know right here at bloomberg you'll have some folks that have worked here for a number of years they're mentoring the younger generation they're taking them out to play golf a lot of business deals are done on the golf course so that's just one still like or is that just a stereotype no no it it is and when you think about it as much as technology is in this in this environment now at a lot of the golf courses it's great to put your phone down and actually talk with someone and just think about having a meeting for four or five hours so on a golf course to play teen holes you're playing for four four and a half hours you could be with your boss for four four and a half hours you could be with a client for four you get to know these people and it's a great human interaction that's another beautiful part of our sport is that you know it's not only traditional but you have the technology infused with it but then you get to spend time and that's why i said earlier just being able to play with my kids and spend four or five hours when it's great is it still a lot of guys though playing no we seen an increase in women in fact women's is the fastest growth of the sport sport since the pandemic more women have gotten in the sport not only for recreational again i think being like hey when the families were were at home and they were shuttered at home they said hey i want to go out and play too a lot of women took up the sport in the last five years they've stayed in the game which is great and then i hear i got a lot of nieces and they're taking up the sport because they know it's an important part not only for business but for family so it's it's one and that's our one of our proudest moments is to see the sport grow with the youth and with women and other people of underserved populations we have a pga works part of our foundation which really helps grow the game for underserved communities and we're trying to make pga america is the entity that's trying to make the game look more like america you just talked about the human aspect of this i'm now going to the not human aspect of this great segue ai changes in the game and technology pga of america of course in frisco texas that's how we know each other the technology is you take a shot and it tells you everything that's wrong with it and what's right with it but i mean they anything to dissect your game that is there what is the future of technology in the game it's just going to continue to grow in fact that's one of the first things i did as the ceo when i got there as i talked to our head of education and i said what are we doing we have all our associates that go through our headquarters there and they learn the trade and become a pga professional then i said what are we doing to teach them ai okay not only with the with the launch monitors and all that that'll have ai all factored in there with the algorithms and all that but we're teaching our young associates how to use ai in running their golf facilities so whether that's doing a flyer that's generated in a couple of minutes rather than a couple hours or doing rounds forecasting for their budgets or doing newsletters for their club and using that ai technology to save them time make it more efficient hopefully it'll look better and then impress their bosses and their boards and their and their members you know one thing that we talked about again tennis fresh on our mind as the us open continues here in new york and as we broadcast from there last week the average age of a tennis coach here in the us is relatively old and i'm wondering if you're seeing similar challenges when it comes to coaching with golf are you able to get those younger coaches in there who can spend their entire lifetime essentially teaching the game to others yeah we have three three career tracks really that sort of like when they want to become a pga member which direction you want to go so we have club operations we have coaching and we have executive management the highest growth is coaching so we're not seeing that challenge challenge we're seeing more young professionals want to get into coaching and i think why is that well i think one is a good lifestyle right you're not club operations can be challenging right you're coming in the club at five in the morning you might be closing at eleven o' clock at night where teaching you know generally is done in daylight hours and and i think you know we've had such great success teaching players you know randy smith is one of our pga members and he's teaching the number one player in the in the game scotty scheffler and we've done a lot of great segments on that and i think that just inspires our young professionals to say i want to be like randy smith and i want to be one of the best teachers in the game we're talking with derek sprague he's ceo of pga of america also with us is our julie fine texas bureau chief here at bloomberg news things evolve things change and things are questioned about i do remember these conversations we were having that like younger generation isn't playing golf is it just the pandemic that you think got people more interested like well that certainly that was probably a jump started but i you know this sounds self serving but i look at some of the programs that we're doing carol like pga junior league we've been doing that for ten years yeah and it's grown every year for ten years right and you're getting seventy so what happens again when you look at the multi generational part of our sport these kids play okay and then their parents again what's beautiful about the sport is they don't have to sit on the sidelines like some other youth sports they don't have to be up in the stands they can participate with their kids so all of a sudden you take a couple children and then a couple parents start and the game of golf grows so i mean it's just i think programs like that and then we got another great program on our foundation for our veterans of this country called pga hope and these veterans that they're trying to reassimilate from back into civilian life and our pga coaches are helping them take up the game building community and now they're starting to play the sport so i think all these programs that we do at the national level at the pga america plus our thirty we have close to thirty three thousand pga professionals one of the largest working sports organizations in the world pga of america is so those members working at these you know fifteen thousand clubs nationwide are helping grow the game day in and day out starting to pay it off we've got one last question we're going to let you julie wrap it up for us perfect timing last question is ten years where are we in the game of golf yeah well today we're one hundred two billion dollars industry i see that growing probably by another twenty or thirty billion dollars i think the retention rate is going to continue and i think we're going to see instead of five hundred fifty million rounds of golf being played we'll probably see six hundred million rounds of golf in ten years and just continue to grow this sport instead of twenty eight million golfers you'll probably have thirty two thirty four million golfers in ten years time so again all these programs are continuing to develop golfers and our thirty three thousand pga professionals are growing the game nationwide and i think all these programs will just continue to add to the numbers economically in golf well i gotta say i loved hitting golf balls at the driving range like it was just so much fun it's just such a part of of us growing up thank you so much you're welcome oh thank you when are you guys doing the show from texas hey anytime you know all the time we will from texas bring us down lots of family in texas love we love to have you derek sprague thank you so much again ceo pga of american of course our thanks to our own julie fine texas bureau chief of bloomberg news we're going to put on a cowboy hat we're going to come down i'm waiting come across bring your boots and maybe bring your golf club yeah sure i know somebody so we'll head on out to frisco this is the bloomberg business week daily podcast available on apple spotify and anywhere else you get your podcasts listen live weekday afternoons from two to five pm eastern on bloomberg dot com comma the iheartradio app tunein and the bloomberg business app you can also watch us live every weekday on youtube youtube and always on the bloomberg terminal life's messy we're talking spills stains pets and kids but with annabe you never have to stress about messes again at washablesofas dot com discover annabe sofas the only fully machine washable sofas inside and out starting at just six hundred and ninety nine dollars made with liquid and stain resistant fabrics that means fewer stains and more peace of mind designed for real life our sofas feature changeable fabric covers allowing you to refresh your style anytime need flexibility our modular design lets you rearrange your sofa effortlessly perfect for cozy apartments or spacious homes plus they're earth friendly and built to last that's why over two hundred thousand happy customers have made the switch upgrade your space today visit washablesofas dot com now and bring home a sofa made for life that's washablesofas dot com offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply in the heat of battle your squad relies on you don't let them down unlock elite gaming tech at lenovo com dominate every match with next level speed seamless streaming and 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