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- [00:00]
Jeffrey Rosenberg (BlackRock)
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Jim Bianco (Bianco Research)
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IBM Representative
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- [01:18]
Bloomberg Host
Bloomberg Audio Studios Podcasts Radio News
- [01:25]
Commercial Narrator
this is a breaking news update from Bloomberg. Instant reaction and analysis from our 3,000 journalists and analysts around the world.
- [01:35]
Bloomberg Host
A new Fed Chair we are in a new era. As we do pass through some of the commentary, the Kevin Wash Federal Reserve is a very different Federal Reserve than the Jerome Powell of Federal Reserve. Not only are we looking at a statement that was only 132 words versus 175 words at the April FOMC meeting, we're talking about a new framework, a new regime and not giving any forward guidance because guess what, there's a task force for that right now. If you take a look at the reaction in markets, they are taking this hawkish tilt and they are running with it. You could see across the board decline headlines on the S and p and the Russell 2000 NASDAQ now a little changed as they pass through all of the reactions. When you take a look at the yield space, that's where some of the fireworks are happening. It is yield curve compression time in a massive massive way. 13 basis point rise on the 2 year to 4.18%. Suddenly the idea of one rate hike or even more is on the table as this Fed Chair talks about how this Federal Reserve has a commitment to the American people to get price stability and that is their goal. He pooh poohed some of the dual mandate at the 30 year yield, they like that. Down 2 basis points, and it is dollar strength across the board. A big question, Scarlet Fu was would the President have any commentary on this? And it turns out that he does.
- [02:53]
Bloomberg Reporter Lisa
He does. He's spoken to reporters several times today. He's at the G7 in France, and he had said that it's all right that they held rates, whatever. He also said that the Fed raising rates is a possibility. It's possible it could happen. So no sign of anger from him. We do know that Scott Besson, the Treasury Secretary, had kind of eased the path there. He had been talking about the prospect of the Fed not being able to cut rates as the President would want, and that inflation, oil prices remains top of mind.
- [03:23]
Bloomberg Host
So we did just listen to Fed Chair Kevin War speaking moments ago. Is there any kind of forward guidance? Where did you put your potential dot, if you were to have a dot? Well, he has an answer for that.
- [03:35]
Fed Chair Kevin Warsh
I'm appointing a task force in each of five areas that are central to the broad conduct of monetary policy. First, Fed communications. Second, the Fed's balance sheet. Third, our use and reliance on existing data sources. Fourth, productivity and jobs in an era of transformation. And last, the Fed's inflation frameworks. My expectation, I'm still in the business of recruiting and finalizing them. My expectation is the task forces will begin work in the next couple of weeks and we'll start to get some more information from them, some more framing of how they see things starting in the fall, and hopefully most, if not all of them concluding by year end.
- [04:22]
Bloomberg Host
Joining us now to discuss is Kate Moore of Citi and Jim Bianco of Bianco Research. Are either of you being recruited for the task force? We'll start with that.
- [04:29]
Kate Moore (Citi)
I just checked my text messages and nothing came through yet, so. But it's still early presser. All right.
- [04:35]
Bloomberg Host
What's your first reaction to what we just heard, Kate?
- [04:37]
Kate Moore (Citi)
Well, a couple of things. Number one, there was broad acknowledgment that the economy is in good shape. There's also broad acknowledgment that the rates as they currently stand, are not actually restricting any major sector outside, of course, housing, which was mentioned. And there was, like, a lot of collegial talk about, you know, how well the Fed is working together, how well they're communicating, how welcoming Wash felt, you know, in his new chair position. So there was actually a kind of a positive tone about both the economy and the functioning of the institution and
- [05:03]
Bloomberg Reporter Lisa
in terms of changes that he's made. Lisa, you already highlighted the Fact that the statement was much shorter, the news conference was shorter as well. And we definitely heard a different side to these Fed news conferences. Jim, one thing that Kevin Wash made clear was that for longer term changes, including communications, including the dot plot, there's going to be a task force for that. How do you anticipate that kind of information to come out? Is that going to be a surprise when it just comes out or is it, is he, the Fed going to give markets time to digest all of what.
- [05:33]
Jim Bianco (Bianco Research)
He also said that the task force might include people outside the Fed. So I would assume that you're going to have leaks, so you might as well be doing it almost in real time telling us what's happening because there's going to be some people outside the Fed. But in general, I think that this is a welcome thing. The Fed needed to change. This communication style that they have now is about 20 years old and the world has changed, communication has changed, the, the role of the Fed has changed. And so it is a positive thing. I'll also mention that one of the things that was talked about before he was chairman was all of these prognostications. The Fed's going to cut rates according to the dot plot. He pointed out it very rarely happens the way that they say it's going to be. So it was always an institution that was giving an inaccurate forecast forecast and we were over relying on that inaccurate forecast. And maybe it is time that they try a different approach.
- [06:26]
Bloomberg Reporter Lisa
Kate, is Chair Kevin Marsh kind of consistent with what former Governor Fed Governor Kevin Marsh sounded like?
- [06:33]
Kate Moore (Citi)
I mean, I'm going to go back to this word I just mentioned a moment ago, collegial. I mean it really felt like that was the sort of the overall tone. And I think something is very important here which is that we are having more consistency of policy here between last meeting with Chair Powell and Chair Warsh, which I think is going to be comforting to the markets even if risk gas assets, you know, dip a little bit on this news. It's just kind of reiterating what we already know though, right? That inflation has been warmer, spicier than many people had expected, certainly even pre the Iran conflict. And we know that there's been a broadening out of some of these price pressures while the labor market has been solid. I just felt like, you know, Chair Wash made those points, conceded that and so was consistent with the person that he has always been, which is someone who is really grounded in data.
- [07:19]
Bloomberg Host
There's also been a comment and I thought that that his answer to One of the questions was really interesting about why he thinks that this shouldn't be an overly communicative Fed. How the data and how the market responds to the data should be done more purely. Take a listen to exactly what he had to say.
- [07:35]
Fed Chair Kevin Warsh
I think financial markets perform best when they react to incoming data. I think the financial markets work less efficiently when they ask a question, how will the Federal Reserve react to that incoming information? The more that markets are paying attention to what's happening in the real economy, deciding what's good data and what's less good data, the more financial markets can price what they believe is the most likely. And what are the tail risks.
- [08:09]
Bloomberg Host
This actually, to me highlighted a real question that's been asked, Jim. Is this sort of codifying the fact that the Fed's going to follow the markets? The market is going to be sort of the arbitrator of what the Fed should do because it is a pure indicator of the collective wisdom of crowds.
- [08:23]
Jim Bianco (Bianco Research)
I think the market should be the thing that the Fed follows. His statement reminded me of that famous line from the economist Charles Goodhart. When a measure becomes a target, it seeks being a measure. Meaning if the Fed has already decided what they're going to do, then we could ignore the payroll report, we could ignore the cpi. Maybe we should. Maybe we should be reacting to all of this and having the market express its best judgment and then letting the Fed bring in that information that I agree with them, is the proper way for things to be done, than them to just summarily decide what they're going to do, say they care about the data, but they've already made up their mind.
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Bloomberg Host
Do you agree?
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Kate Moore (Citi)
Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. Right? The market being an important signal, an important source of data for the Fed instead of this kind of manipulation. It is really hard, though, as market participants not to try and anticipate what other market participants or other policymakers or other people making decisions are doing or interpreting with the data. You know, and that is part of the game and part of the behavioral side of things that we all incorporate into our process. But I think, you know, Chair Warsh's point was very clear that the market and that mechanism, Jim, as you're pointing out, is a really powerful mechanism and we shouldn't fade it right now.
- [09:30]
Bloomberg Host
We want to get back with a part of the task force. I don't believe he actually has been appointed to a task force. He is officially the Bloomberg Task Force Force on the Federal reserve. Bloomberg's Michael McKee, you are in the room and the press conference actually went along, went on a little bit longer than some people had expected. The commitment to a press conference, though not exactly concrete, his answer to you was really interesting. What was your takeaway from this conference?
- [09:55]
Michael McKee (Bloomberg)
Well, the answer, of course, like almost all of his answers, ended with there's a task force for that, but basically they're going to look at all communications. And he did express the idea that he doesn't necessarily think you should have a press conference after every meeting if you don't have something to say. Now, that's going to be the thing that the task force is going to have to look at is what qualifies as something important to say today, obviously. But if you're in a situation where you don't know where inflation's going, where you're going to vote to hold rates where they are, does that require a meet a press conference? If not, then how do the markets react? The Fed there is kind of leading the markets. And if they come to you and say, hey, come on over, we're going to a press conference today, then they're also leading the markets. So it's, it's a difficult needle to thread at this point, I think for Wash to try to get out of this, to put that genie back in the bottle. But we'll see what the, the task force comes up with. He was very, very complimentary of Fed officials today and he basically framed this all as we're all working together to make this work better for monetary policy. So it's, we're all going to be sitting back and waiting for these task force reports to come out.
- [11:10]
Bloomberg Host
Michael McKee, thanks so much for all of your work and insight today. Just real quick here, it does seem like the market he's not necessarily paying attention to. In the initial salvos of the reaction, he went on and said, honestly, I'm not that concerned in the first hours. That said, the idea that they dropped any kind of commentary on the labor market and the fact that he said we've missed for five years our inflation target and we are going to fix it, that is there any other way to interpret this other Kate, than unabashedly hawkish?
- [11:40]
Kate Moore (Citi)
I mean, look, here's what I would say. The fact that he repeated that we have been overshooting the target for five years, something our team talks about all of the time, I thought was incredibly important and actually was a comfort to me. This acknowledgment that policy is going to be really active in terms of getting us to the goal Thought that other comment he made around paying attention to the left of the decimal, decimal point versus the right, that, you know, that the target is to not two and something sort of reaffirms that commitment and the way that he'll work with the committee, frankly, to get policy in a place that we go closer to target over time. So it's hard not to interpret that where we are today as a little bit more hawkish than otherwise people might have expected.
- [12:22]
Bloomberg Reporter Lisa
But also that's thinking perhaps more clearly than perhaps what we had heard in the past. Right. There's no 2ish. It's just 2.
- [12:28]
Kate Moore (Citi)
Yeah.
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Bloomberg Reporter Lisa
And he's happy with that. I'm curious, in terms of the labor market, there was a question posed about what the committee thinks of the labor market, Jim, and he said trends matter more than data points. The jobs data has been moving in a good direction. It feels like that's all he said about the labor market. He's not concerned with it one way or another.
- [12:44]
Jim Bianco (Bianco Research)
Yeah. If you go back to the statement, they didn't put anything in the statement. In the one question, he said, we're not worried about the labor market. Okay. That is not a problem. The problem seems to be the inflation problem. And that's what they addressed. So I almost suspect that this statement is going to be flexible. So today, now it's inflation. I could see a statement in, you know, six months a year where there's no mention of inflation and it's all about the labor market is all about real growth then at that point.
- [13:10]
Michael McKee (Bloomberg)
Yeah.
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Bloomberg Host
And he said that it wasn't necessarily in conflict with each other. Right now, let's bring in Stephanie Roth of Wolfe Research, who's been listening to all of this. Stephanie, your first take on what we just heard from Fed Chair Kevin Wash.
- [13:21]
Stephanie Roth (Wolfe Research)
Yeah, I mean, it was.
- [13:22]
Kate Moore (Citi)
He.
- [13:22]
Stephanie Roth (Wolfe Research)
He's setting up to be a very credible Fed. He seems to be very smart about getting everybody on his side and getting the consensus. It seems while he was not in favor of a hike today, you know, that could, that could very much change with the incoming data. So it was certainly more hawkish than what some people had thought. Some people thought he would just come in and try to push through rate cuts because that's what the President wants. And that wouldn't necessarily, quite frankly, be very good for markets anyway. So this was a very deliberate and patient approach. And we'll see, you know, through the path of incoming data how this plays out. Our base case is that inflation will cool enough, labor market will show some signs of softening such that in the coming weeks they don't actually have to hike. But certainly the odds have risen after this meeting.
- [14:03]
Bloomberg Reporter Lisa
Stephanie, does this silence the critics who thought that we would not have an independent Fed under Kevin Marsh?
- [14:09]
Stephanie Roth (Wolfe Research)
Yes, I think it absolutely does. He is, you know, looking at the incoming data, he doesn't seem to be somebody who is scared to be hiking if we don't actually get closer to the inflation goal than would otherwise be the case. He doesn't seem to be giving way to any sort of pressure. So I mean that's a very good thing for markets. Markets should want an independent Fed. So just pushing through rates for the sake of, you know, appeasing the President is not something that will ultimately result in a better economy or markets at the end of the day. And I think we should all feel better about that after what we heard today.
- [14:40]
Bloomberg Reporter Lisa
How do you anticipate economists to respond or to react to the fact that nine of the members want to hike? I mean how is this going to adjust what Wall street thinks is going to happen with inflation?
- [14:51]
Stephanie Roth (Wolfe Research)
Yeah, you're seeing that in markets today. You know, the shorter end of the curve rates are up significantly and you have to raise your odds of a near term hike knowing that many more FOMC members than it was generally expected are looking for a hike. Before this meeting, I would say somewhere between the expectation was somewhere between three and six members were expected to be penciling at a hike. Now you're substantially above that. So now we're talking about about half the committee is, you know, very much interested in hiking rates given the data that we have today. So whatever your odds were of a hike, you know, before today, you know, it certainly has to be to be to be rising.
- [15:26]
Bloomberg Host
If you are just joining us, we're passing through a very noteworthy Fed meeting, the first for Kevin Warsh as chairman and he made a lot of changes. I did want to make one quick correction. I said that there were one hundred and seventy five words in the April statement. It was actually 341 words versus the 131 words in this latest statement. As we've been mentioning in markets, you can see a real hawkish tilt that is filtering through markets. I'm wondering Jim, from your perspective, do you like long bonds better given what we just heard? I mean, does this actually give you more confidence that this is a Federal Reserve that wants to anchor inflation expectations at 2.0, not 2 point something?
- [16:05]
Jim Bianco (Bianco Research)
It should the old Wall street adage that as a bond investor I can stop panicking when the Fed starts panicking really applies. If the Fed is going to be vigilant about inflation, that in all of itself should be positive for bonds. Now today it's positive for bonds with the yield curve flattening because they're not rising in yield as much as the front end of the curve. But yes, you know, if you want to go back to 2022, to give another example, the inflation rate hit 9% but with the Fed raising rates 75 basis points every meeting, it never got above four and a quarter the entire year the Fed was in full panic mode. Bond investors on a relative basis held in.
- [16:43]
Bloomberg Host
Kate, you agree, man?
- [16:45]
Kate Moore (Citi)
We have been very underweight duration for like the duration of my time here, to be fair. And we have debated over and over again what is it going to be that that lets us kind of extend duration in portfolios. But I just can't get there. I mean, our view is that inflation is going to be more persistent and broader than a lot of people expected for quarters to come. So even against that backdrop, against the comments from Chair Warsh and from kind of the tone of the fomc, you know, we're just not in a place yet where we're buyers.
- [17:14]
Bloomberg Reporter Lisa
How does this make you think about credit? Would you be changing any of your allocation to it or what you prefer?
- [17:20]
Kate Moore (Citi)
Yeah, we think about credit, of course, in the risk asset spectrum too, not just in terms of yield. Right. And in this case, you know, equities, not credit, have had kind of a step down in valuation over the course of 2026 because of course, earnings have been much stronger than the price movement. And so, you know, we're still close to that kind of 15 year high in terms of credit valuations. But we've come, you know, significantly lower in equities. We prefer to take our risk asset exposure inequities over credit. We positioned that way over the course of the year. That doesn't mean no credit, but we just want to be more selective, frankly. And I wish I didn't just love equities so much and think they were going to go higher actually A pause to breathe, I think as we've seen over some last trading sessions, is is a good thing going into the summer. But I also wish I could use fixed income more actively in portfolios. But given where we are in rates and inflation, as I said, we're very underweight duration.
- [18:11]
Bloomberg Reporter Lisa
Staying on that idea, we also heard from Kevin Warshaw, Stephanie, about his thoughts on how restrictive policy is right now. And his answer was it's uneven. If you look at housing, for instance, Fed policy does appear restrictive because you have that affordability crisis, not just in the actual housing prices, but in mortgage rates. But he doesn't see that in financial markets, noting the record highs that we're seeing in equities and the tight spreads that we see in credit. How do you think about that?
- [18:35]
Stephanie Roth (Wolfe Research)
Yeah, I mean, so, you know, the initial idea, well, policy is somewhat uneven. You could initially be interpreted as, well, that's somewhat of a dovish comment until he later said you don't really see it anywhere outside of housing. So it's pointing to that as policy is largely, you know, not that restrictive outside of one sector of the economy. So once you hear that further information, it suggests that, you know, the economy is certainly running fairly hot relative to sort of where rates are. So, you know, our expectation is that was a, you know, somewhat, somewhat hawkish comment after, you know, it could initially have been interpreted as a little bit more balanced.
- [19:14]
Bloomberg Host
We heard him say pretty confidently, Stephanie, that he was not concerned with how the market was moving in the initial aftermath of this press conference. He wouldn't make too much of those moves. Do you think that that was a mistake?
- [19:27]
Stephanie Roth (Wolfe Research)
No, I mean, I think, I think he believes that. I think he, you know, he, he came out and delivered a message of, you know, credibility and the market is seeing, seeing through that. I don't think that was something he would wish. He, you know, Wishes, wishes. He didn't say necessarily. He knew he was going to be coming out and delivering, you know, a balanced, although perhaps somewhat hawkish message. And that's exactly what he did today. He, he came in there, he painted the Fed as a very credible institution, one that's working together. He noted, you know, several times that, you know, while they might have sort of family feuds at the table, they're going to come out and deliver, you know, an important and singular message. And that's exactly what he did. So I think he, you know, came and went exactly as his plan and I think he was very successful in doing so.
- [20:09]
Bloomberg Host
Stephanie, just sort of a similar question to what we were asking before about whether this gives you more confidence in long bonds. Does this make you actually pull down your longer term inflation expectations for the United States based on some of the shift in rhetoric?
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Stephanie Roth (Wolfe Research)
Yeah, I think it has to, you know, that the Fed is going to be credible in getting inflation down. The market should. And, you know, we also do take him at his word that they are. He's, he's planning on getting inflation down one way or Another the hope or the expectation is you'll get it down through the passage of time and inflation naturally coming down because there have been shocks to the economy that should eventually fade. But if we don't, if that doesn't play out that way, then was certainly going to be behind the Fed hiking rates in order to get there. So there are two has to get there. But the end goal is certainly going to be that 2% inflation. He very much made that clear.
- [21:01]
Bloomberg Host
Stephanie Roth, thank you so much for your insights.
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Bloomberg Reporter Lisa
Just to go back to what President Trump said, he was answering a question from our Josh Wingrove about what happened with the Fed and his exact quote was it's all right, whatever. When asked about the Fed's decision to hold interest rates steady.
- [21:16]
Bloomberg Host
Well, there you go. We've got the endorsement, I guess, of the President, the United States. Jim, do you think that yield curve flattening is the path of travel level from here?
- [21:22]
Jim Bianco (Bianco Research)
Yeah, if the Fed is going to be committed to raising rates, to fighting inflation, the long end again, as I said on a relative basis, should like it more than the front end. Front end yields go up long and yields kind of hold steady or go up a little bit and you get that the Fed or you get that curve flattening.
- [21:40]
Bloomberg Reporter Lisa
Kate, what will you be looking for in the Fed minutes when those come out in three weeks?
- [21:43]
Kate Moore (Citi)
I mean, I guess I'll be looking for that one small, tiny bit of discussion for the person who was suggesting that there would be space for a rate cut. Love to see kind of how fast that discussion was or how it's addressed. I'll also be, you know, kind of thinking about overall inflation expectations. This is something we want to see. You know, how does the Fed talk about that? Are they going to be acknowledging if we care a lot more about market pricing, you know, how that reflects back in terms of their overall debate. But in general, I think we already know what we need to know, which is like this was I split set of decisions. There were people with varying different degrees of interpretation of the inflation data and the economy, how tight financial conditions are, how much we need to worry about break evens. I mean it's, we know it's all over the map. So I'm not sure we're going to get a single cohesive special message from the minutes.
- [22:31]
Jim Bianco (Bianco Research)
If I could jump in on that. There's one other thing that we haven't discussed. The Fed didn't disclose their vote for the first time ever. They didn't tell us whether it was a 12 vote or if there was any dissenter.
- [22:42]
Bloomberg Reporter Lisa
Design.
- [22:43]
Jim Bianco (Bianco Research)
Yes, by design. So maybe we'll get that out of the minutes. But if we don't get it out of the minutes, they're going full ecb, which never discloses their vote. And that says to me the Fed's more independent, that there's 12 voters across that table and they don't want to be publishing 7, 5 votes, 8, 4 votes, having all these dissents. So, as he said, they'd rather keep it as a family fight, let them all hash it out in the meeting and then come out with a decision later on and not have to have people put out statements two days later about why they dissented for these meetings. So it's going to be a very different thing and maybe the minutes will help decide that.
- [23:18]
Bloomberg Reporter Lisa
Let's not forget that Jay Powell was part of the discussion. He was in the room because he's a member of the Fed board, even though he's no longer the Fed chair, which is highly unusual.
- [23:25]
Bloomberg Host
Lisa, you have to wonder exactly what's so broken and whether he personally feels a little bit of attachment to the old way of communication, given that he was really helming that. Right now, I do want to bring in Jeffrey Rosenberg of blackrock. There is a sense right now in markets that this is a Fed that is newly renewed, really newly renewing their commitment to controlling inflation. Clearly yield curve flattening, clearly risk off in stocks. Is this signal or is this noise?
- [23:55]
Jeffrey Rosenberg (BlackRock)
Well, there's, there's a lot of both. This is quite the change. And I think we're all trying to digest what we just, what we just heard. I think there's a real risk here. Jonathan's not on the program, so I'm going to do my best interpretation. The first reaction is not always the right reaction. And I think there's a risk here of overplaying the yield curve flattening and the questioning of the long end that I'm listening to here. So, first of all, you know, this is a market that is sort of split between the old reaction function, which really moved on the dot plot. Right? The nine votes, the nine dots voting for, for a hike were well in excess of expectations, and that's what moved the market. But, but then you have Warsh basically telling you we're going to get rid of the dot plot. I mean, he got you all the way almost to the goal line, but didn't want to, you know, prejudge the outcome of the, of the task force. But it's very clear, you know, the task force has Its, its job ahead of it. So that undermines a little bit of that interpretation. I think the second reaction from the market is just a very clear hawkish statement. But I think here, there's a possibility here that the market may want to rethink, or I'm rethinking not talking about the market, but you know, is this hawkish for rates or is this hawkish for the balance sheet? Because if you look underneath what he said, there were some very kind of telling interchanges there. And when you think about the path dependency of Warsh and his history during the post gfc, you know, first, you know, why was it that the communications of the Fed became paramount for markets? That interchange about why markets stopped paying attention to the data and instead of, of having their own reaction function, they were reacting to what they thought the Fed's reaction function would be. And that's because the era of the post GFC was the era of we will do whatever it takes and believe me, it will be enough. That was the quote from the ECB and Draghi when he threatened bond markets, that the central bank's balance sheet was bigger than the market's balance sheet and that ushered in or is reflective of an era where central banks were the dominant price makers. And he wants to do away with that. Well, what's the primary tool for doing away with that? It's the balance sheet. So one of those task forces may be more important than the others when it comes to markets and market reactions. Then the second interchange that was really quite revealing was when asked about restrictiveness. It wasn't so much about the unevenness, but what he went on to say about what is the source of the unevenness. I found that to be the most revealing comment because he said that might be due to transmission mechanisms, that one might be about the interest rates that's reflective to housing and the other, the easiness of financial conditions is about the balance sheet. Well, that's about some of the risks of running an ample reserve system that maybe here is being hinted at, at being changed. And if you were to change that, what has been the biggest beneficiary of a big balance sheet? The flattening of the term premium. Right. That was the whole point of a lot of the bond purchases was to bring down that term premium. And we're still seeing the legacy of that benefit. So if the signal here is maybe we're going to be hawkish on the balance sheet, I'm not sure your reaction is big curve flattening. I get the initial reaction Hawkish surprise in terms of the, the focus on price stability. But there may be some other second order effects here. We'll think about that. Actually will become first order.
- [27:45]
Jim Bianco (Bianco Research)
So, Jeffrey, I got a question for you about the balance sheet. I agree with a lot of your sentiment about it and I'm thinking back to earlier with the Fed when they adopted inflation targeting. It took under Bernanke five years before we eventually got inflation targeting. Are we going to have to wait five years for them to change the balance sheet? Can this institution, especially since they've got Fed Governor Michael Barr, who's kind of against it in the first place, to move that fast? So while I agree with you about the balance sheet, is this something that's going to take years to unfold?
- [28:15]
Jeffrey Rosenberg (BlackRock)
Well, Jim, I wonder, you know, we're around the same generation. My reaction to the statement was, wow, that looks like one of the first statements I saw in my career. Fed 94, about the same length, similar kind of tonality. And how quickly did Fed Chair Wash change the communications basically on his first day on the job. So I don't think from that signal we're going to be waiting with this Fed and this Fed chair five years to make these kinds of changes. And when asked the question, I think he even intimated that he expects these committees to come back by the end of the year.
- [28:53]
Bloomberg Host
Well, Jeff, anyway, you slice it though. This isn't great for risk assets, right? I mean, if you're shrinking the balance sheet, that's tightening in financial conditions conditions. If you're hiking interest rates, that's tightening of financial conditions. Does this make you rethink some of your risk bet?
- [29:06]
Jeffrey Rosenberg (BlackRock)
You know, the Fed may be less supportive in terms of financial conditions, but it's occurring in an environment where the contribution, particularly to risky assets, of the Fed's role is much secondary, much more secondary to what we're seeing in the real economy. Right. And that's the, that's the AI impact, the incredible amount of capital expenditures, the incredible amount of earnings growth. So it might be an opportunistic moment for the Fed to take a step back on supportive financial conditions when financial conditions can stand on their own.
- [29:43]
Kate Moore (Citi)
Yeah, I mean, Jeff, I couldn't agree with you more on this one that what's been driving the equity market, of course, has been the earnings in the AI and the ecosystem as well as all the Capex beneficiaries and the companies and the industries that are benefiting from adopting this technology. So it's hard to say that earnings are really coupled in any way with the rate position at this point and that, you know, if we are fundamentally driven, which our team certainly is, we have to stay focused on where the earnings are going, who's growing them. In this case it's the US over everywhere else and regardless of where we are in kind of a relative monetary policy. The one thing I just would want to highlight though is that for the fringe companies, the smaller companies, those that are reliant on borrowing, people had gotten themselves incredibly excited, as you remember, in the beginning of the year around rate sensitive parts of the equity market. Like this is a time for rotation. We're going to get excited. But now I think we're getting a message very clearly from policymakers that the rates trajectory is not lower in the near term. At best case, we're kind of flat. And that's not going to be an environment where companies that need to borrow in order to keep up with their large cap counterparts are going to be able to do so at a very attractive rate. So that needs to be factored into people's expectations for margins and then earnings. And if you care about earnings in this case, which we really certainly do, that should tilt your size, you know, overall exposure.
- [31:01]
Bloomberg Reporter Lisa
I wanted to go back to the idea about how communications is changing under Fed chair Kevin Marsh. A question from Michael McKee was on communications and press conferences whether Warsh would continue holding them after every meeting. He said that they can be a useful way to communicate with households and businesses, but you need to have something to say. So that suggests that perhaps there won't be a meeting, a news conference after every decision. Having said that, if households and businesses are learning from this news conference, are listening to this, Jeff, what do you think they heard from this new Fed chair? What's the message for them?
- [31:33]
Jeffrey Rosenberg (BlackRock)
Well, I think he wants us to reiterate the main message. Right. He said the other useful thing is, is everyone here in the room helps to amplify. I don't know if you said that, but I think it was implied. You have to amplify that message. And the message was the recommitment to the Fed's stability, price, stability of prices goal. And I think that's the message that he wanted to get out. The recommitment to the attainment of the goal and all the task forces and everything else around that is really in service of that. In recognition of that, for the past five years, there's clearly been a failing on that far on that part.
- [32:11]
Bloomberg Host
Jeffrey Rosenberg of blackrock, thank you so much for being with us and Breaking it all down. Keep Moore. Jim Bianco, you're still here. Jim. Final thoughts on exactly what we have experienced in this history making day that
- [32:23]
Jim Bianco (Bianco Research)
we're going to see a different type of Fed right now with a different type of objective and communication style and that that's not necessarily a bad thing. I think the market reaction is appropriate market because part of the path that they're going to go on is going to follow a lot of the other central banks. In the last week the ECB raised rates, the bank of Japan has raised rates, and now the Federal Reserve is suggesting that they're going to raise rates too. So they're all moving in that direction.
- [32:49]
Kate Moore (Citi)
I love the overall message again around working with the rest of the fomc, around bringing in outside voices to these task forces. But I do want to say something. It's important, important to reiterate that commitment to price stability and to the target. But there's a phrase that keeps coming back into my mind was, which is your actions speak so loudly I can't hear what you're saying. So let's see if there's follow through in terms of action and not just trying to jawbone the market to say hey, we do care about it, but we're not taking the necessary policy actions in order to get us closer to that goal. So I'll be watching very closely what happens over kind of the next six to 12 weeks of these next next couple meetings.
- [33:32]
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- [34:34]
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