LIV Golf Seeks New Investors, Brooks Running CEO Dan Sheridan

Summary

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Bloomberg Businessweek Daily Podcast:

Episode Summary – "LIV Golf Seeks New Investors, Brooks Running CEO Dan Sheridan"

Date: May 1, 2026
Hosts: Carol Massar & Tim Stenovec

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Episode Overview

This episode offers comprehensive insights into three major topics:

• The uncertain future of LIV Golf as Saudi Arabia’s sovereign investment fund withdraws core funding, and the league seeks new backers.
• The operational and market dynamics of Farmgirl Flowers during the critical Mother’s Day period, featuring founder/CEO Christina Stembel.
• A deep dive into Brooks Running’s global growth strategy, especially its rapid rise in China, with CEO Dan Sheridan reporting live from Berkshire Hathaway’s annual meeting. Other highlights include a segment exploring the fashionable trend of "hotspan" (extending youth and fitness well into midlife) and the changing landscape of concierge healthcare.

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1. LIV Golf’s Funding Crisis & Uncertain Future

Segment Start: [02:40]

Key Discussion Points

• LIV Golf’s Funding Was Not Infinite:
  The hosts and Randall Williams (Bloomberg sports business reporter) discuss the perception that LIV was propped up by an “endless pot of money” courtesy of Saudi Arabia’s Public Investment Fund.
• Withdrawal and Uncertain Path Forward:
  The Saudis have stopped funding ongoing losses (~$5 billion spent in ~3-5 years), leaving the league to search for new investors, possibly from private equity or other sovereign funds.
• Legitimacy of New Investment:
  While Williams acknowledges ongoing conversations for new backers, he states, “My sources won’t tell me who those conversations are...if you’re not willing to go on record...it’s very difficult to legitimize.” ([05:07])
• Saudi Stake & Control:
  Despite withdrawing funding, the Saudi PIF reportedly retains 95% ownership, making them pivotal for LIV’s survival.
• Analogy for Current State:
  Williams: “It’s like when you’re riding a bike and someone’s pushing you with training wheels...they’ve let go. We’re going to find out if LIV Golf can ride without the training wheels.” ([06:02])
• Possibility of PGA Merger?:
  Both hosts and Williams are skeptical a merger is “back on the table” given PGA’s recent investments and stance, “I just can’t imagine a world where the PGA Tour comes back into this and...save[s] this.” ([06:55])
• Business Model Issues:
  LIV lacks strong US TV viewership and long-standing tradition, making it hard to capture sustained audience interest.
  Williams likens it to stars leaving the NBA—it might create buzz, but legacy leagues hold on due to history. ([08:00])

Notable Quotes

• Randall Williams (on funding):
  “They’re not going to get another $5 billion, but...the hope is they can get something from private equity, maybe another sovereign wealth fund...” ([04:34])
• Carol Massar (on TV/media):
  “If they had a TV contract...media brings so much money in. Is that the reason that it’s just having such a hard time?” ([07:42])
• Williams (on impact of sportwashing):
  “...The NFL sovereign wealth isn’t allowed. The NBA has soft sovereign wealth...so with them departing the golf world, you have to wonder what is the next sport that they will choose, if they choose a sport at all.” ([09:39])

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2. Flower Industry’s Busiest Season: Farmgirl Flowers CEO Christina Stembel

Segment Start: [13:44]

Key Discussion Points

• Pre-Mother’s Day Jitters:
  Stembel describes the week before Mother’s Day as “the most stressful week” due to sales anxiety and operational prep.
  “Everybody is anxiety and nervous...just biting your fingernails and hoping the sales are going to come in...” ([14:31])
• Current Sales Trends & Headwinds:
  Sales are slightly slower yet similar to last year. Stembel attributes this to the tough economy and flowers being a non-essential. “We’re happy, but we’re cautiously optimistic....people don’t really think about it until you hit May for Mother’s Day.” ([14:55])
• Cost Pressure from Tariffs & Fuel:
  Fuel increases have a major impact, even “5% of revenue is up in fuel alone.” Supply chain issues, tariffs, and fuel all compound difficulties. ([16:15])
• Labor & Vertical Integration:
  Still hiring but “looking for really good people;” company culture demands flexibility and willingness to multitask. ([18:22])
  On vertical integration: “We’re building our farm quarters right here...some planting going on outside right now as we speak.” ([19:07])
• Peonies: The Ultimate Popular Flower:
  “92% of our customers – peonies were their favorite flower.” ([19:51])
• Shift in Gifting Behavior (K-shaped economy):
  Consumers are trading down, choosing more affordable options. Farmgirl offers tiered pricing and a Safeway line to meet every customer. ([20:39])
• Price Position & Profitability:
  Despite perceptions, Farmgirl is often “no more expensive than our competitors,” who now, too, must show profits.
  Stembel: “I’ll take that as a win, because there’s not a whole lot of wins. We’ve always had to make sure there’s a little bit of profit...single digits, but it’s there.” ([22:07])

Notable Quotes

• Christina Stembel:
  “Our costs are up. We’re up 5% of revenue in fuel alone. So it’s hard. Really hard right now.” ([16:15]) “We had to raise prices like everyone. We’re absorbing as much as we can....margins are so tiny in perishable product like flowers anyway.” ([17:14]) “If you don’t know what to get...peonies are the ones.” ([19:51])
• On industry changes:
  “Most private equity and venture capital firms are expecting their investments to be profitable now, and we’ve always had to be profitable. So, it’s a little bit more of an even playing field.” ([22:07])

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3. The Age of "Hotspan": Wellness, Longevity, and Male Vanity

Segment Start: [26:33]

Key Discussion Points

• Defining "Hotspan":
  Chris Rouser (Bloomberg reporter) describes “hotspan” as the years when people—especially men—prolong physical youth and attractiveness well into midlife, supported by anti-aging medicine, TRT, peptides, and boutique health care.
• Concierge Medicine Trend:
  Growth in expensive, niche health services promising optimization, biomarker testing, and personalized health regimens.
  “Everyone’s talking about longevity. We can’t argue that longevity and healthspan are the buzzwords in wellness.” ([28:49])
• Social and Gender Commentary:
  Noted shift: what’s new for men has been an ongoing issue for women—the pressure for physical maintenance and self-improvement. Carol Massar: “Welcome everybody to the club because women have been dealing with this forever.” ([29:30])
• Unregulated Wellness Market:
  Rouser alerts that the peptide market is “really unregulated,” and one must work with a licensed doctor.
• The Joy (Or Exhaustion) of Chasing Peak Health:
  Even fit role models admit it takes work; “There’s a guy [at the gym] who looks like Tarzan...at least 60...my friends say, ‘I hope I look like that at that age,’ and I’m like, ‘I want to rest.’” ([31:43])

Notable Quotes

• Rouser:
  "If you look at your Instagram and it’s not filled with ads for peptides, just say the word ‘peptides’ three times...it will be full of ads for peptides.” ([30:01]) “[Focusing on health and biomarkers]—you’re not maybe worried about looking like a Marvel superhero in your 60s, but you’re...gonna be feeling a lot better and...looking kinda better.” ([30:51])
• Tim Stenovec:
  “But is something different happening right now?” ([28:29])

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4. Brooks Running: High Growth, Global Ambition, and Navigating Supply Chain

Segment Start: [35:26]

Key Discussion Points

• Brooks Running’s Record Growth:
  CEO Dan Sheridan joins live from Berkshire Hathaway’s annual meeting.
  “We just finished our first quarter—we’re up 23% as a company globally...China up 136%...core business in the US grew 20%...Europe 30%...We’re just getting started.” ([36:59])
• China Market Strategy:
  Entered China in 2022; sales are growing rapidly, but still a small part of global revenue. Sheridan focuses on a universal brand message: “We believe everyone’s a runner...awaken aliveness in every runner.” ([38:59])
• Brand Positioning Amid Geopolitics:
  Despite broader US/China tensions, Brooks’s brand message works worldwide.
• Performance + Casual Trends:
  The “casualization of the workforce” fuels running shoe sales beyond just athletes. “Trends come and go. Performance is a trend we’re rooted in, but also the casualization of the workforce...benefits us.” ([40:16])
• Product Model: Loyalty and Innovation:
  Brooks must balance loyal repeat buyers with ongoing innovation. Franchise models like the Glycerin, Ghost, and Adrenaline shoes constitute a winning formula globally. ([41:24])
• Supply Chain Disruptions:
  Navigating current and potential future shocks (tariffs, fuel prices, geopolitical events).
  Sheridan: “It’s not any better than those [tariffs, Covid]. It’s probably on par...Supply chains hate disruption.” ([44:19])
• Consumer Resilience:
  Running remains affordable—even with price hikes—which makes it more resilient than other recreational activities during economic stress.
  “Our consumers, during times of economic disruption, are pretty durable and stick with it…and...they’ll buy running shoes and apparel.” ([44:55])
• Brooks as Lifestyle:
  Continued expansion into apparel, partnerships (with Disney, Paris Fashion Week), and lifestyle positioning to reach wider markets.

Notable Quotes

• Dan Sheridan:
  “Our brand positioning is, simply put, as we believe everyone’s a runner, and our jobs are to awaken aliveness in every runner through the transformative power of the run.” ([38:59])
  “Trends come and go. Right now, performance is a trend...but also the casualization of the workforce...is benefiting Brooks as well.” ([40:16])
  “We have to retain customers that love our products, and we have to innovate for new customers...That comes from understanding the biomechanics of human motion...” ([41:24])
  “Supply chains hate disruption.” ([43:27])
  “Running is a pretty affordable sport...so our consumers, during times of economic disruption, are pretty durable.” ([44:55])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment / Speaker(s) | Topic/Highlight | |-----------|------------------------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------------------| | 02:40 | Hosts, Randall Williams | LIV Golf funding crisis, search for new investors | | 04:34 | Randall Williams | Funding scale and sources for LIV | | 06:02 | Williams, Hosts | Saudi stake, bike/training wheels analogy | | 07:42 | Carol Massar, Williams | TV/media challenges for LIV | | 13:44 | Christina Stembel (Farmgirl Flowers) | Mother's Day, sales trends, cost pressures | | 16:15 | Stembel, Hosts | Tariffs, fuel surcharges, supply chain | | 19:51 | Stembel | Peonies: consumer favorite, customer preferences | | 20:39 | Stembel, Hosts | K-shaped economy, consumer spend down, Safeway strategy | | 22:07 | Stembel | Competitive positioning, bootstrapping, profitability | | 26:33 | Chris Rouser | "Hotspan," concierge medicine, wellness industry | | 29:30 | Massar, Rouser | Gender comparisons, market growth for wellness services | | 30:51 | Rouser | Preventive medicine and its benefits | | 31:43 | Rouser, Hosts | Irony/jokes about gym culture, focus on happiness | | 35:26 | Dan Sheridan (Brooks Running CEO) | Brooks' global growth, China expansion, market trends | | 38:59 | Sheridan | Brand positioning in China, resilience amid geopolitics | | 40:16 | Sheridan, Massar, Stenovec | Performance, workplace casualization, customer loyalty | | 42:49 | Massar, Sheridan, Stenovec | Supply chain, tariffs, operational resilience | | 44:55 | Sheridan | Consumer durability in running, market overview | | 45:43 | Sheridan | Partnerships, Disney, apparel, lifestyle positioning |

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• On LIV Golf's Future:
  "We're going to find out if LIV Golf can ride without the training wheels and continue to pedal." — Randall Williams ([06:02])

• On the cost squeeze in florals:
  “Our costs are up. We’re up 5% of revenue in fuel alone. So it’s hard, really hard right now.” — Christina Stembel ([16:15])

• On gendered pressure and aging:
  “Welcome everybody to the club because women have been dealing with this forever.” — Carol Massar ([29:30])

• On Brooks Running’s core philosophy:
  “We believe everyone’s a runner, and our jobs are to awaken aliveness in every runner through the transformative power of the run.” — Dan Sheridan ([38:59])

• On economic resilience in running:
  “Our consumers, during times of economic disruption are pretty durable and stick with it…they’ll buy running shoes and apparel.” — Dan Sheridan ([44:55])

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Key Takeaways

• LIV Golf faces an existential threat without Saudi funding; a TV/media breakthrough, strong new investment, or a sudden PGA partnership seem unlikely in the near term.
• Flowers are resilient but not recession-proof: Farmgirl Flowers is weathering cost surges and shifting consumer demand, leveraging vertical integration and multiple sales channels (like Safeway).
• The “hotspan” phenomenon underscores how consumer attitudes toward aging, wellness, and health spending are shifting—especially for men—and how business is rapidly responding.
• Brooks Running exemplifies how global brands are riding both longstanding performance credibility and the mass appeal of “performance casual” fashion, even as supply chain challenges endure.

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Transcript

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Bloomberg Audio Studios Podcasts Radio News this is Bloomberg businessweek daily reporting from the magazine that helps global leaders stay ahead with insight on the people, companies and trends shaping today's complex economy. Plus global business, finance and tech news as it happens. The Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast with Carol Massar and Tim Stenbeck on Bloomberg Radio.

[Tim Stenbeck]

Some interesting stuff going on behind the scenes over at LIV Golf. Did you know about this?

[Carol Massar]

Yes, I think this is a super interesting development because when it first came out everybody's like oh my gosh. And the people that were lining up

[Tim Stenbeck]

with it, not only was it oh my gosh but it was. Oh, my gosh.

[Randall Williams]

This.

[Tim Stenbeck]

This money.

[Christina Stembel]

Yeah.

[Tim Stenbeck]

Endless.

[Carol Massar]

Seriously.

[Tim Stenbeck]

Okay, so the future of LIV Golf is in doubt. The breakaway league hunting for new investors after Saudi Arabia ended its ongoing financial support for the loss, making leave that briefly challenged the PGA tourist supremacy. We've got a great voice on this. Randall Williams is Bloomberg News U.S. sports business reporter. He joins us from Miami. Randall, always good to have you on the program. Always a treat to get to talk to you, especially when you're in Miami. Although I like it more when you're here with us. And maybe we could all go to Miami.

[Carol Massar]

Wait, where are you?

[Tim Stenbeck]

He's at the Miami right now, Right?

[Randall Williams]

I'm in Miami. I'm sitting in the paddock, and they keep turning up the music. I thought they were going to get quieter, but I'm happy to be here and happy to talk all things live Golf.

[Tim Stenbeck]

You sound good, so don't worry about it. You sound good. When. When live. When LIV Golf first was announced a few years ago, I want to go back to this. This idea that it seemed like this was funded by an unlimited pot of money to. And they were handing out these huge purses to attract players.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

What happened?

[Randall Williams]

Well, I think for a long period of time, when you're paying players hundreds of millions of dollars, you're paying these golf courses hundreds of millions of dollars. And then, of course, that's not including your employees, your workforce, all of those things, it's going to throw a lot of money at it, and you want to see profit. At the end of the day, LIV was just starting, and I think with all the things going on in the world, with the war, with other things like oil and things like that, the Saudi public investment fund looked at this and they were like, I don't know if we need to do this anymore. And so live Golf, if you ask people around there, they'll tell you that they're still charging forward. They just need to find new investors.

[Tim Stenbeck]

How much do they need?

[Randall Williams]

That is the multimillion dollar question. I think your guess is as good as mine. Listen, Liv Golf spent $5 billion over the course of, I want to say, three to five years. They're not going to get another 5 billion, but, I mean, the hope is that they can get something from maybe private equity, maybe another sovereign wealth fund, get across the finish line of whatever. The finish line that can keep things going.

[Carol Massar]

Can they keep it going based on what you're seeing? I mean, is there demand for it? Do people want it? Do players want to be involved in it?

[Randall Williams]

I've had a lot of conversations and what my sources tell me is that LIV Golf is being legitimate conversations with investors. But my sources won't tell me who those conversations are. So it's a little difficult to tell. Like could they be an Aries and Apollo or anything like that? And I'm just throwing those names out there because they have a lot of money. They're not involved in the conversations as far as I know. But if you're not willing to go on record and say the people you're talking to, it's very difficult to categorize and to legitimize. Who are you talking to? And who is going to find this thing that is already ignored. $5 billion.

[Carol Massar]

I think what's interesting too is the Saudis are going to still have 95% ownership, this according to your reporting. But they just don't have the funding to continue into a new season. So they're still committed, but they're the ones can make or break it right now, essentially. Right.

[Randall Williams]

The way that the analogy that I would use to describe this is like when you're riding a bike and someone sort of pushing me, right, and you're on these training reels and then they let go. Well, the Saudi are pushing this for five years. We spent a lot of money, a lot of turbo pushing this bike and now they've let go. And we're going to find out if LIV Golf can ride without the training wheels and continue to pedal and pedal and pedals. That's the best analogy I can give it.

[Tim Stenbeck]

I like that analogy. It works for this. And I'm trying to think of a way where I can't torture it. So I'm going to leave it as is.

[Randall Williams]

But.

[Tim Stenbeck]

But what is it? You know, if we think about the history here, a few years ago there was going to be a merger between the PGA and LIV Golf.

[Carol Massar]

Feels like a mulligan.

[Randall Williams]

There we go.

[Tim Stenbeck]

Cheryl did it. What that. Is that back? Could that be back on the table?

[Randall Williams]

Listen, I won't be the first person to say this, but I think that LIV Golf and TGA Tour merger is effectively good. PGA Tour did a lot of things to try to evolve. They had $1.5 billion invested, invested in it from TGA Soar Enterprises. That is a three billion dollar package total. There's another billion and a half dollars that they can get. On top of that, they have new leadership. Former NFL executive Brian Horlath steering the ship now. He's doing a lot. The players are excited. So with all of those Things. I just can't imagine a world where the PGA Tour comes back into this and they're like, you know what? We're willing to save this. Because even before roll up a ride, the PGA Tour was very antagonistic towards Liv golf. They're still the exact same way, but they're damn sure not as friendly.

[Carol Massar]

So is it, is it just because people aren't interested in it? I mean, they don't have really great TV viewership. I mean, if they had a TV contract, right? Media, we talk about that with so many other sports that brings so much money in. Is that the reason that it's just having such a hard time?

[Randall Williams]

I think that any original IP and anything that we do across all business entities is going to struggle when people don't know you like it sounds good. You know, if the NBA, LeBron and Steph Curry and Victor Wembanyama left tomorrow to start a European league or something along those lines, I think there would be interest. But is that going to topple 75, 80 years of history for the NBA? Probably not. The league is going to keep going because there's 80 years of recognition and I think going and had a lot of momentum. But evidently their events are overseas and they have a couple here in the States and here in North America. But again, you need really, really special moments. You need your players to then go to the Masters and the majors. And that hasn't exactly happened yet. So, yeah, I think for us consumers and us watchers, they were waiting for a moment to be like, let's buy into this. And I'm not sure it ever feels bigger though, Tim.

[Tim Stenbeck]

Yeah, it does feel bigger. I remember watching the Miami. You're in Miami right now. I remember watching the Miami Open, I think it was this year. And there were, I was watching on tv, there were logos during of the Saudi private investment fund or public investment fund, excuse me, the pif. And it, it showed that. And it wasn't. I don't know what they were advertising, but it obviously showed, aligned with a presence with, with the tournament. But I wonder what it means for Saudi Arabia and the way that Saudi Arabia has invested in sports because they haven't stopped investing. I mean, they're still buying these. The gaming companies they own are still buying, you know, spending billions of dollars. What does it mean for how they're thinking about sports?

[Randall Williams]

I mean, if you think about the start of this conversation, what it was three years ago when I just started at Bloomberg, it was the Saudi Arabia sports watching. Yeah, they're going to do this they're going to get in. And granted they got into boxing and I don't know if infiltrate the right word, but they have absolutely influenced the boxing in the combat sports world. I don't know if that existed in the same way across all sports. Again, the NFL sovereign wealth isn't allowed. The NBA has soft sovereign wealth and the MLB has I'm not familiar with the mlb, but it isn't the exact same way. And so with them departing the golf world, you have to wonder what is the next sport that they will choose, if they choose a sport at all.

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[Tim Stenbeck]

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[IBM Representative]

noise about AI, but time's too tight for more promises. So let's talk about results. At IBM, we work with our employees to integrate technology right into the systems they need. Now a global workforce of 300,000 can use AI to fill their HR questions, resolving 94% of common questions, not noise. Proof of how we can help companies get smarter by putting AI where it actually pays off, deep in the work that moves the business. Let's create smarter business. IBM.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

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[Tim Stenbeck]

Just a reminder, everybody. Charlie, don't forget, mark your calendars, kids. We're just a bit over a week.

[Carol Massar]

We moms actually do care about this.

[Tim Stenbeck]

They do get on it, if you haven't already. Mother's Day is one of, if not the biggest sales periods for flowers here in the U.S. yeah, I just got

[Carol Massar]

flowers for my birthday. It's so.

[Tim Stenbeck]

Happy birthday.

[Carol Massar]

Thank you.

[Tim Stenbeck]

It was yesterday and Wednesday, I heard.

[Carol Massar]

Yeah, it's getting extended. Great to have back with us, as always, Christina Stembel, founder and CEO of Farm Girl Flowers. It's a firm that she has built from the ground up. We have enjoyed talking with her over the years as her business changes, evolves, deals with different cycles. She has bootstrapped it since starting it back in 2010, making bouquets from her San Francisco apartment. Such a great story. How are you? Great to have you back. You're in Gig Harbor.

[Christina Stembel]

Yes, I'm in Washington right now. I'm getting ready to fly out. All of us are scattering around the United States for next week, but happy to be here. Thanks for having me back.

[Carol Massar]

What's it like a week out? Like, we've often talked to you right up against the day and it's crazy. But tell us about, like, at this point, like, what are you doing?

[Christina Stembel]

Yeah, this is actually, I think the most stressful week is the week before the biggest week of the year for us. Everybody is anxiety and nervous and, you know, you're biting your fingernails and hoping the sales are going to come in like you've planned for months and months and months and just getting, you know, it's the wait before the storm, where you just want to be in it and doing it.

[Tim Stenbeck]

And how's it looking?

[Christina Stembel]

It's looking good. It's, it's a little slower than previous years. You know, we found this this year. I mean, it's a hard year. Right. And flowers are not a necessity, even though we think they are for mom. So, I mean, you know, we're, we're happy, but we're, we're cautiously optimistic. I should say they're coming in a little bit slower than we were hoping, but we're confident that next week we know we just hit May. People don't really think about it until you hit May for Mother's Day.

[Tim Stenbeck]

When you look at the charts and I know you, you guys are so data driven. Christina, when you look at the charts from previous years, sort of where, where does this year compare to with what you're selling?

[Christina Stembel]

Yeah, I mean, it's, this year in general has been, you know, we're, for the last couple of years it's been tough. You know, we've talked a lot and you know, we're coming in where we thought we would, which is about the same as last year. You know, we're always trying to, to do better than the year before. But this year, I think given how tough everything is, you know, we're hoping for just a tiny bit of lift and we'll be happy with that.

[Carol Massar]

Yes. Like me, though, I'm often a last minute kind of gal, so I know how people are scrambling. What's, what's your cost side looking like? I mean, we've talked about this with you. You've really given, given us a great education about flower growing and the importance of those global supply chains, but give us an idea of kind of where we are. We're talking about tariffs again, courtesy of the President who made some comments earlier.

[Christina Stembel]

Yeah, I mean, it's challenging to talk about tariffs at the same time. We're talking about like huge fuel surcharges with the war. You know, it's like you can kind of take one at a time, but when you, you put them all together, it gets, it gets very, very challenging very quickly. Fuel is the biggest, you know, top of mind right now and also, like, as the fuel prices are, will hopefully come down, you know, fingers crossed in the coming months, we won't see it as quickly as we'd like because the major carriers have implemented, you know, broader bands, pay bands. So, you know, we're all going into, you know, slower months of the summer months coming up. And you know, in Gifting in general. And so, you know, hitting those, getting, you know, those, those ban differences in prices will take a lot longer than we were anticipating. So. And our costs are up. We're up 5% of revenue is up in fuel alone. So it's hard, really hard right now.

[Tim Stenbeck]

What adjustments are you making on the price side as a result of that?

[Christina Stembel]

Yeah, we had to raise prices like everyone. We're absorbing as much as we can. We absorb about half of it, and then we pass the other half on because we have to. We need to still make a little tiny bit of. The margins are so tiny in perishable product like flowers anyway. So it's just huge risk with very little rewards. And anytime you add something like a war, that's going to impact everything, let's be honest. But especially fuel. And we need fuel for everything coming in. It's not just everybody thinks about the outbound, the box going to the consumer, but fertilizers and the bulbs and the seeds and everything that comes in. Also, there's a transportation cost with that as well. So it just adds up very quickly.

[Carol Massar]

Yeah. And when it's like you say, when it's perishable, it's not like you can stockpile when there's a sale on flowers and put them in the warehouse. Christina, talk to us about. Because there's labor involved, too. You have a team, and we've often talked about it. Do you have all the workers you need? How's that going? Because we obviously look at the employment area and I'm curious to see what you are seeing firsthand.

[Christina Stembel]

Yeah, I mean, we actually have some open positions. We're looking for really good people. Farm rule is a little bit different, though. We work a little bit different. We're a bootstrap company, as you mentioned, and so everybody has to wear a lot of hats, and people have to be willing to do that. And so, you know, finding, you know, team members that want to work in that type of environment is different than it was before. COVID It definitely has shifted, I think, in the last five years. So we have. If you're listening and you want to work hard, we do have some open positions that we're looking for right now.

[Tim Stenbeck]

How is the. The. Your own flower growing going right now? It's something that we've talked with you about in the past, and you've. You're different in that you're trying to do some of this yourself versus importing. What's the status of that right now?

[Christina Stembel]

Yeah, we're still doing it. We're building our farm quarters right here where I'm sitting right now. There's some planting going on outside right now as we speak. So we're excited about that, some vertical integration. But, you know, it's also a little bit more than that for us. We wanted to learn every area of our business, and so that's been really fun. I don't know if it's going to be the, you know, we'll see how it turns out. You know, we did some, I think certain crops that we're doing at more of a scale, like peonies, we put in, you know, many, many thousands of plants a couple of years ago. We haven't had our first harvest yet, so we're looking forward to that first harvest. We have a lot of money tied up that we're waiting to hopefully see back in the coming years.

[Carol Massar]

Got to say, peonies are my absolute favorite flowers. And that's what people want, right? In terms of, like, what's trending.

[Christina Stembel]

Yeah. We polled our customers a couple of years ago, and it continues to be the same response. So you are not alone, Carol. They're also one of my favorites as well. But 92% of our customers, peonies were their favorite flower. So when you're in doubt if you don't know what to get, get some. Peonies are the ones that are behind me right now. They're beautiful, they're floofy. They remind you of things like your, you know, grandmother's garden or your backyard that you grew up in. And everybody I talked to just loves peonies.

[Randall Williams]

So that's.

[Christina Stembel]

That's kind of a tried and true. If you don't know what to get,

[Carol Massar]

you know, you went right there. It was my grandmother's garden. It was like, unbelievable. And she could, she could take a stem and root it. Like, she was just unbelievable as a gard gardener. Like, she was just crazy. What else are people like, Are they. Are they trading down then a little bit, like smaller bouquets in terms of gifting or like. I'm just curious about that as well.

[Christina Stembel]

Yeah, I think it's kind of following what everybody. Every, you know, industry that I research is kind of in the same place with the, you know, the K shaped economy people talk about. You know, there is, you know, there's some stats read this morning that, you know, 20% of consumers are buying, you know, 60% of all the goods out there right now. You know, that it's not different than it's been a lot of times. But I think we're seeing it more and more. I mean, people are struggling to pay for gas and groceries right now. They're not going to spend a lot of money on flowers. You know, we're really excited about. We have a Safeway line as well. So for. We're trying to be able to reach consumers that might not be able to afford something from our site right now. So we're in over 200 Safeway stores, so you can go there and for about the price of shipping, pick up a bouquet there. And then on our site, we. We kind of. We're trying our best to accommodate as many people as we can. So we have some options that are, you know, in the 50s and $60 ranges. And then we have some that go up to like 150, $200. So, you know, people are, you know, some people are gravitating towards $150, and a lot of people are going towards the $50 to $75. And then some people are going to Safeway. So we're trying to, like, meet them where they are.

[Tim Stenbeck]

So if you, if you meet them where you are, how do you do that in a way that's still profitable and still offer something that. That can compete with a price point that they might find somewhere else, but still allows you to serve them? In other words, like, in other words, do you have the products and the margins to be able to offer a lower price point?

[Christina Stembel]

Yeah, I mean, that's been something we struggled with for the whole 15 years that I've been in business, you know, being bootstrapped. We've never had, you know, $100 million of venture capital behind us. So we had a lot of features, people in our industry that were just offering huge discounts and free shipping and all these things because they didn't have to be profitable. The good thing about where the economy is right now, from a business standpoint, from a bootstrap business standpoint, I should say, is it's a little bit more of a level playing field. You know, people still think of us as the most expensive option out there. But if you go look at, you know, our competitor sites, they are very similar, if not more expensive than us now, because even though they have all that venture capital, you know, or they have had that, you know, that, you know, most. Most private equity and venture capital firms are expecting their investments to be profitable now, and we've always had to be profitable. So, you know, it's a little bit more of an even playing field. So I'm looking for all the. I'll take that as a win, right, because there's not a whole lot of wins. So, you know, we've always had to make sure there's a little bit of profit at the, you know, at the very bottom line. It's in single digits, but it's there. And so we're able to do that a little bit more effectively sometimes than others.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Stay with us.

[Tim Stenbeck]

More from Bloomberg Businessweek Daily Coming up after this.

[Public Ad Voice]

Support for the show comes from Public Lately it feels like there are two types of investing platforms. Some are traditional brokerages that haven't changed much in decades, and others feel less like investing and more like a game. Public is positioned differently. It's an investing platform for people who are serious about building their wealth on public. You can build a portfolio of stocks, options, bonds, crypto without all the bugs or the confetti. Retirement accounts? Yep. High yield cash? Yes again, they even have direct indexing. Public has modern design, powerful tools and customer support that actually helps go to public.com market and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com market ad paid for by

[Public Disclosures Voice]

Public Holdings Brokerage Services by Public Investing member FINRA SIPC Advisory Services By Public Advisors SEC Registered Advisor Crypto Services By ZeroHash all investing involves risk of loss. See complete [e-mail] disclosures a business gift

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

is never just a gift. It's a thank you, a milestone, a moment of appreciation. It's a message about how much someone matters and what your brand stands for. At 4imprint, you'll find thousands of customizable options like premium apparel, branded drinkware, tech totes and more, each chosen not just for function but for meaning. You can tailor every detail your logo, your message, your presentation so your gift feels personal and on brand. And with expert support, dependable service and thousands without a setup fee, Creating something thoughtful doesn't mean making it complicated. Every order is backed by 4imprint's 360 degree guarantee, so you can be 4imprint certain it'll arrive exactly as expected, on time and with the care your brand deserves. Because when the moment matters, the right gift speaks volumes and the right partner makes it easy. Explore gifting with purpose and [e-mail] forimprint for certain.

[IBM Representative]

The thing about AI for business? It may not automatically fit the way your business works. At IBM, we've seen this firsthand. But by embedding AI across hr, it's and procurement processes, we've reduced costs by millions, slash repetitive tasks and freed thousands of hours for strategic work. Now we're helping companies get smarter by putting AI where it actually pays off, deep in the work that moves the business. Let's create smarter business. IBM.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week daily podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5 Eastern. Listen on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app or watch us live on YouTube.

[Tim Stenbeck]

Well, speaking of advanced technology, Carol, you've heard of lifespan.

[Carol Massar]

Have you seen my LinkedIn photo?

[Tim Stenbeck]

You're of AI generator.

[Carol Massar]

No, it's not true.

[Tim Stenbeck]

Have you heard of the lifespan? Right. Everyone you know, you know what lifespan is.

[Carol Massar]

Get it? Totally get it.

[Tim Stenbeck]

Everyone is talking about health span, the years that, you know, you can age gracefully and, and sort of feel better at a late age. Now, apparently, we're all extending our quote, hot span.

[Carol Massar]

Staying hot, I guess.

[Tim Stenbeck]

I guess. What is a hot span? What is hot span?

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Why don't we let my fellow geriatric

[Tim Stenbeck]

millennial Chris Rouser tell us all about it?

[Chris Rouser]

What a welcome, guys.

[Tim Stenbeck]

Hi, Chris.

[Chris Rouser]

Hi, Chris. It's great to be here.

[Tim Stenbeck]

Chris, you write in the piece that you are recently, you've recently turned 45. Yes.

[Chris Rouser]

Hold for applause.

[Tim Stenbeck]

And you're noticing something. And over the last year, you noticed something happen among a certain cohort of men of a certain age, and it's that they were looking younger and younger despite the fact that they were getting older and older.

[Chris Rouser]

Yes.

[Tim Stenbeck]

Is this hot span, this, these, these

[Chris Rouser]

people who you're talking about are working on extending their hotspan. So I live in Brooklyn, New York, and I live in a neighborhood, lots of different kinds of people. Lots of gay guys in their 30s and 40s. And one day last fall, I was like, everybody's looking younger. What the f. What's happening? And I started asking around, and these guys were all going to this concierge medical practice called Catalyst Precision Health with this doctor who does checks your biomarkers, helps works on sleep, works on your fitness with you, your glucose metabolism, and also will prescribe peptides or TRT and basically does all the like checks all your stats and also will help you will prescribe all the like sort of trendy youthifying elixirs that are out there.

[Tim Stenbeck]

And insurance covers all that?

[Chris Rouser]

No, no.

[Tim Stenbeck]

Okay, just checking.

[Carol Massar]

Wait, but all these guys were going there.

[Chris Rouser]

A lot of them were. Yes. And this is the thing. You know, there's a bunch of other, this concierge practice kind of thing is really like, growing and growing.

[Carol Massar]

I've lost a bunch of doctors to concierge.

[Chris Rouser]

Yeah, exactly. So that whole kind of medical practice is really growing. And so a lot of people are doing it around, around the city, around the country, around the world. Just switching to sort of a really forward looking, anti aging, functional medicine preventative as opposed to react.

[Christina Stembel]

What?

[Tim Stenbeck]

Well, one thing that I wonder is like just the bias that I have approaching a trend like this.

[Chris Rouser]

Yeah.

[Tim Stenbeck]

Is it because I am of that age that I'm now thinking about all these things and like everybody, when they get to their, their, you know, so, so called midlife, right in their 40s, they start to think about health more, they start to think about longevity more, they start to think about what they can do to feel better. Or is something different happening right now?

[Chris Rouser]

Two things I think everyone's talking about longevity. We can't argue that longevity and health span are like the buzzwords in wellness and have been for the past few years, like the manosphere. Podcasts have millions and millions of listeners. Like, especially if you're a man, you're like subjected to a lot more of this kind of scrutiny from yourself and from others than you probably were a long time ago. But also like our definitions of midlife are changing. Like what I remember I wrote in the story, when my mom turned 40, I got her a birthday card that had gravestones on it because she was over the hill.

[Tim Stenbeck]

My dad, Vori. Are you kidding? We got my dad these like black balloons with like, you know, they said over the hill, 40, 40's in the rearview mirror. Yeah, exactly. Like what?

[Carol Massar]

All I'm going to say is, welcome everybody to the club because women have been dealing with this forever.

[Tim Stenbeck]

You write about that billion percent.

[Chris Rouser]

Yeah.

[Carol Massar]

So it's kind of fascinating to see, like you guys like, oh my God, yes, Correct. But it's happening.

[Chris Rouser]

Yeah.

[Carol Massar]

So is there a lot more? You know, I am curious because we've talked before we got going about women in health and the gaps between R and D and so on and so forth. Is there all of a sudden though a ton of either concierge or services that are really rising up to deal with all this stuff? Is it a growth area?

[Chris Rouser]

Yeah, it's definitely. Oh, yeah. I mean, if you look at your Instagram and it's not filled with ads for peptides, just say the word peptides three times out loud in front of your phone and it will be full of ads for peptides. And if you don't know what that is, there are these, you know, sort of protein, the amino acid elixirs that can, you know, make you sleep better, make you give you a tan.

[Carol Massar]

Does it work?

[Chris Rouser]

Yeah, I mean, A lot of them sort of do work. Yeah, they do. Yeah, A lot of them have risks. And it's a really unregulated industry. So it's, you know, you should work with a doctor like the ones that we feature in the stories. But, yeah, it's definitely a growing business.

[Carol Massar]

I think what's interesting about these concierge doctors, I think they. The markers and things that they look at, I think they do actually get a better picture, though. Like, I haven't done it, but I am tempted because I think they really look at everything that's going on and trying to figure out you as a person, your composition, because everything is specific. Right.

[Chris Rouser]

So this one doctor at Catalyst that I talked to, Dr. Wesley Spiro, you know, he was an emergency room doctor, and he was getting people coming in with type 2 diabetes and just like renal failure and stuff where. Because they're in their 60s and they let it go to that point because they didn't know. And then, you know, if you're looking in your 30s and 40s at these biomarkers and you're getting your clothes cholesterol and your glucose metabolism under control and you're getting enough sleep and you're. And stuff, like, you're. You're not maybe worried about looking like a Marvel superhero when you're in your 60s, but you're, like, gonna be feeling a lot better and, you know, actually in the end looking kind of better.

[Tim Stenbeck]

You do. You. You come and join us periodically and you do experiential journalism, which I appreciate.

[Carol Massar]

What did you do?

[Tim Stenbeck]

Did reporting out this story, and you've written about, like, the berries that you've done and the different workouts that you've done, the suit that you wore for a long time to work out in. After reporting out this story, are you doing any of this stuff?

[Chris Rouser]

I have not done any peptides or trt, which is testosterone replacement therapy, or most of the. Or hair replacement, which is another big thing right now, which is like, if you can afford it, why not get it? So, no, I haven't really done any of this stuff that's in this, but I certainly do work out a lot. And I go to a Barry's Boot Camp in downtown Manhattan, and this is another reason I thought of doing this story. There's a guy there who looks like Tarzan and he's gotta be at least 60. And my friends will be like, oh, God, I hope I look like that at that age. And I'm like, I don't. Like, I want to rest.

[Carol Massar]

I'll sit on a rocker and look at the ocean and do some knitting.

[Chris Rouser]

But then reporting this story, I talked to so many people who like really have taken care of their health up, you know, like leading up until their retirement age, which is kind of a false social construct anyway. And they're so happy. They're so much happier.

[Dan Sheridan]

That's what I was going to say.

[Tim Stenbeck]

It's AN N of one.

[Chris Rouser]

Yeah.

[Tim Stenbeck]

But the guy you spoke to, the 68 year old in San Diego who's

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

retired, he's so happy.

[Tim Stenbeck]

Yeah. And he's in amazing shape.

[Chris Rouser]

Yeah.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Stay with us.

[Tim Stenbeck]

More from Bloomberg businessweek Daily coming up after this.

[Public Ad Voice]

Support for the show comes from Public Lately it feels like there are two types of investing platforms. Some are traditional brokerages that haven't changed much in decades and and others feel less like investing and more like a game. Public is positioned differently. It's an investing platform for people who are serious about building their wealth on public. You can build a portfolio of stocks, options, bonds, crypto without all the bugs or the confetti. Retirement accounts? Yep. High yield cash? Yes again. They even have direct indexing. Public has modern design, powerful tools and customer support that actually helps go to public.com market and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com market ad paid for by

[Public Disclosures Voice]

Public holdings brokerage services by Public Investing member Finra SIPC advisory services by Public Advisors SEC registered advisor crypto services by Zerohash all investing involves risk of loss. See complete [e-mail] disclosures a business gift

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

is never just a gift. It's a thank you, a milestone, a moment of appreciation. It's a message about how much someone matters and what your brand stands for. At 4imprint, you'll find thousands of customizable options like premium apparel, branded drinkware, tech totes and more, each chosen not just for function, but for meaning. You can tailor every detail your logo, your message, your presentation so your gift feels personal and on brand. And with expert support, dependable service and thousands without a setup fee, creating something thoughtful doesn't mean making it complicated. Every order is backed by 4imprint's 360 degree guarantee, so you can be 4imprint certain it'll arrive exactly as expected, on time and with the care your brand deserves. Because when the moment matters, the right gift speaks volumes and the right partner makes it easy. Explore gifting with purpose and [e-mail] for Imprint for certain the thing about AI for business?

[IBM Representative]

It may not automatically fit the way your business works. At IBM, we've seen this firsthand. But by embedding AI across hr, IT and procurement processes, we've reduced costs by millions, slash repetitive tasks and freed thousands of hours for strategic work. Now we're helping companies get smarter by putting AI where it actually pays off, deep in the work that moves the business. Let's create smarter business. IBM.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

You're listening to the Bloomberg BusinessWeek Daily podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5 Eastern. Listen on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app or watch us live on YouTube.

[Carol Massar]

We wanted to remind you that tomorrow investors will focus on Berkshire Hathaway's annual meeting with shareholders. Shareholders. It's quite an affair in the past. This year it will be the first where the highlight is not the man himself. Warren Buffett having passed the reins now to CEO Greg Abel.

[Tim Stenbeck]

Greg Abel, in that position, he's facing a problem that seldom confronted his legendary predecessor. And that has to do with the floundering stock price. Shares have lagged the S&P 500 index by more than 37 percentage points over the past 12 months. Carol, that is the worst stretch for one year going back to the year 2000.

[Carol Massar]

All right, so a little bit of pressure, perhaps it makes this year even more interesting as investors are always consumed by the Berkshire universe, its public holdings as well as its private ones, its subsidiary companies. One of those independent subsidiaries under the Berkshire portfolio is Brooks Running, longtime affiliated with Berkshire Hathaway. Joining us from the floor the Berkshire Shareholder conference in Omaha is Dan Sheridan. He's the CEO of Brooks Running. Dan, it is so nice to have you back with Tim and me.

[Tim Stenbeck]

Tell us, already busy there.

[Carol Massar]

I know that. What's going on around you? Tell us, Tell us.

[Dan Sheridan]

Well, hi, Tim. Hi, Carol. Happy to join you here from Omaha. You can see behind me we're at the shareholder trade show and we're, we're packed here in our booth. We're selling product here, all the shareholders and their family. And how fortunate are we to be here this weekend?

[Tim Stenbeck]

What's selling right now, not just at the shareholder meeting, but all around the country and especially in China right now.

[Dan Sheridan]

Yeah, Tim, we just finished our first quarter. We're up 23% as a company globally. And it's a broad based growth story. All regions for Brooks are growing double digit. You mentioned China, up 136%. For us, we're really resonating with the Chinese runner. But our core business here in the US grew 20%. Our European business grew 30%. And it's just an outcome of this strategy that we've been on for 25 years. Pinnacle Premium performance products with great execution and a brand that continues to strengthen in the market. So I think we're just getting started, to be honest with you.

[Carol Massar]

Well, give me some context and perspective, if you would, Dan, when it comes to China specifically, you mentioned sales growing 136% year over year. How. How much of top line is actually China right now?

[Dan Sheridan]

Yeah, China is still a very small percentage of our business. We entered the China market in 2022, so we're a new entry into the market. But what we're seeing both online and offline, is just great resonance with the Chinese runner. And the running boom that we've talked about the last few times I've been on continues to gain momentum in the China market, and we're seeing that around the world. As I said, Europe for us is just becoming a very strong engine. And it's not just footwear. Our apparel business grew 34% globally, too. So we're hitting it on all fronts. And it's a global story for us

[Tim Stenbeck]

from a marketing perspective in China. And then we'll go. We'll go more global in a second. But while we're on China, I want to get some. Some details from you on marketing there. What is the strategy, the communication strategy with the Chinese consumer? Because it comes at a time when, you know, America is not necessarily viewed, I think many people would argue, is viewed as an adversary of China right now. So what's the brand positioning, and how do you communicate the brand to that consumer?

[Dan Sheridan]

Yeah, it's really clear for us, Tim. Our brand positioning is, simply put, as we believe everyone's a runner, and our jobs are to awaken aliveness in every runner through the transformative power of the run.

[Randall Williams]

And.

[Dan Sheridan]

And what we know, based on how we've expanded, is that resonates with the Chinese consumer. It's matched with incredible performance products that are merchandised and colored in a way where they can wear it off the run and on the run. And our brand seems to resonate really well with that consumer. So the mix of marketing is pretty similar by country. And China is a bit more online than some of our other markets. But ultimately, our brand is expressed the same way, and the consumer is receiving it really well.

[Carol Massar]

I have to say, Dan, I actually bought some sneakers this week. I'm not gonna say what sneakers I bought. I'm just gonna be a little. But what's interesting is I am not a runner. I do other things, but I've never been a runner. But it's just, you go into one of these stores and everybody's buying sneakers. That's what they want to walk around in. That's what they want to live in. That's what they want to wear to work. I see it here. Is that really the growth? I mean, you guys have such a great running shoe, and we know runners love it, but is that continuing to be also a strong dynamic that. That fuels top and bottom line?

[Randall Williams]

Yeah.

[Dan Sheridan]

I mean, trends come and go. Right. And right now, performance is a trend that we're rooted in. But also the casualization of the workforce and how we show up to work in casual footwear is benefiting Brooks as well. And, and that's why design matters matched with this performance angle. And, and you can see the beauty in our product as well as the technical benefits. So we're benefiting from that trend, Carol, for sure.

[Carol Massar]

I'm just going to tell you, Elizabeth, one of our producers and managers, she says, I have their nylon plate, nylon pleated line. So she is a big user.

[Tim Stenbeck]

Well, we have some, but it does speak to loyalty.

[Carol Massar]

Yeah.

[Tim Stenbeck]

Of, of. We talked about this in the past with you, Dan. This, this idea that once a runner finds a pair of shoes that they like, they stick with it. That's, that's good news and bad news for companies that produce this stuff because they need to make sure they continue to satisfy that person who wants that brand or model. But you also want to innovate. And when you innovate, you have to get rid of, you know, of different lines of shoes. How do you make sure that the person who's loyal to a certain shoe will get that next version of the shoe when you innovate on it?

[Dan Sheridan]

Yeah, Tim, you're on it. This is the puzzle we have to solve every single year. We have to retain customers that love our products, and we have to innovate for new customers to come into our brand. And we've been able to do that 25 years of 14% compounded annual growth rate. That comes from understanding the biomechanics of human motion and making sure that when you buy a Brooks that you are in a safe product, in a performant product. We do that every single season. And then you have to match it with innovation and materials, both in the upper and the midsole. And right now, in our space, we've got three styles that are winning around the world. The Glycerin, the Ghost, and the Adrenaline. These are massive styles. They're in the top 10 here in the US and the top 10 in Europe as well. So it's a franchise style model, but it's retention and attaining new customers that is our mission.

[Carol Massar]

Hey, remind us and the audience, Dan, about the supply chain and how that's going. We had, we kicked off our hour talking about the President imposing I think 25% tariffs on EU autos. But stuff continues to come out of Washington that certainly impacts things. The war, the cost of things, customers paying more for gasoline here in the United States and around the globe. Any of that kind of a follow through for you guys. And you're feeling an impact.

[Dan Sheridan]

Yeah, I think the last time we spoke we really felt like we knew where we were heading in terms of tariffs and the impact on our supply chain. Now obviously we have some other disruption in the, in the Iran war and you know, we're taking the same approach. We're trying to be very thoughtful in how we manage through price increases to the consumer. We've been very thoughtful in that. And you know, we're hopeful that this will resolve in the next couple months. If we can get resolution, you know, we believe the balance of this year will smooth out for us. But you know, it's another disruption to supply chains and supply chains hate disruption

[Tim Stenbeck]

as, you know, what if it's not resolved in the next couple of months?

[Dan Sheridan]

Yeah. So we're working on scenarios right now, Tim. I, I'd tell you that the framework we have is, you know, we will have cost increases on raw materials in our products, so we're starting to model that out. And we'll probably have cost increases on moving our product from the manufacturing sites to the ports and into the markets. And so it's a, it's a dynamic time for us. And you know, the worst thing again for supply chains is this disruption and unpredictability in what we can plan for. But our team's really good at it and we've been able to weather some of these disruptions over the last few years.

[Tim Stenbeck]

Well, how do you quantify it? Is it, is it worse than tariffs? Is it worse than Covid disruption? What is it? Where, where does it fall with that, with what we've seen over the last few years?

[Dan Sheridan]

I think it's still to be determined, to be honest with you. You know, I think there's, there's just so many unknowns on, on what the inputs into the raw materials will be at an oil based level. And so I would say that it's, it's not any better than those two. It's probably on par.

[Carol Massar]

Yeah.

[Tim Stenbeck]

That with those disruptions, those were huge and are huge. I think, for, you know, continuing with tariffs.

[Carol Massar]

Any sign of consumer weakness, it sounds like you guys are doing really well. But any signs that the consumer is. Is hesitating or pulling back?

[Dan Sheridan]

Yeah, not in our category. You know, here's what we know about the run category. Historically, it's pretty resilient. It's durable. And if you think about it in comparison to other sports or categories, this is a pretty affordable sport. You know, for $150, you can buy a pair of running shoes, and those will last you, for some people, up to six months. You compare that to golf or skiing or any outdoor sport, it's still a very affordable sport. So our consumers, during times of economic disruption are pretty durable and stick with it and, and may trade out some other things, but they'll buy running shoes and apparel.

[Carol Massar]

Hey, one thing we wanted to dig a little deeper into, too, is apparel. Your collaboration with Disney Paris Fashion Week.

[Tim Stenbeck]

We've got casualization. Carol. That's what he said.

[Randall Williams]

I love it.

[Carol Massar]

Just go where you want.

[Tim Stenbeck]

Yeah.

[Dan Sheridan]

Look, you know, what we have built this brand on is partnerships. Partnerships with some of the best retailers around the world, partnerships in manufacturing. And on the marketing side, we're really leaning into partnerships where we can attach our brand to some of the most epic brands in the world. Disney is super unique, as you know, and we sponsor their race series. I was in Orlando two weeks ago running the 5K Springtime Surprise. It was great. And we also are matching that, pushing into a lifestyle brand, our brand in the lifestyle category. So there's dimensions of your brand as you build your marketing mix. And, and we think we've got a recipe right now that's going to invite more people into this brand.

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[Dr. Guy Winch]

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[Kalpen]

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