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- [00:00]
Carol Massar
They told us to expect change.
- [00:03]
Madison Mueller
They warned us about the transition, but
- [00:05]
Carol Massar
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- [00:31]
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- [01:00]
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- [01:40]
Carol Massar
Bloomberg Audio Studios Podcasts Radio News this is Bloomberg Businessweek daily reporting from the magazine that helps global leaders stay ahead with insight on the people, companies and trends shaping today's comple economy. Plus global business, finance and tech news as it happens. The Bloomberg businessweek Daily podcast with Carol Massar and Tim Stanweck on Bloomberg Radio so we've got the midterms coming in November. We know that. And some are wondering a lot about the political cost of President Trump's war in Iran. President has been emphatic about his intentions in the widening Middle east war. He said just on Friday he'd accept no deal with Iran other than unconditional surrender and pledge the US Will work tirelessly to restore the country's economy if a new leader is installed whom he deems acceptable. That was Friday. We know Iran now has a new leader, as we just talked about with our own Jenny Welch in the last segment. So let's get to more on how some Make America great again. Influencers and GOP politicians are expressing backlash against President Trump's policies. It's a recent Bloomberg Big Take it's something we were talking about all over the weekend. With us is Bloomberg News senior national political correspondent Nancy Cook. She is in the Bloomberg News Washington, D.C. bureau. Nancy, great to have you here with us. Great story. Tell us about this chorus of betrayal, who they are and what they are up to.
- [03:08]
Nancy Cook
Well, thanks so much for having me. Really, what has been happening as Trump has bombed Iran along with Israel is that there are a bunch of MAGA influencers who have huge names and huge megaphones, including Tucker Carlson, Megyn Kelly, the former lawmaker Marjorie Taylor Greene, who do not agree with this military incursion and have been really vocal on it. They've just been saying that this violates Trump's longtime campaign promise of America first by not sort of getting involved in the Middle east and that this is really not part of the agenda that they're looking for.
- [03:43]
Tim Stannweck
Well, Nancy, were some of these factions anticipated? Were we expecting to see some sort of breaking up within the group more broadly? What are you hearing from your sources?
- [03:55]
Nancy Cook
Well, this is certainly to be expected. I mean, Trump Since 2015, when I've covered his first presidential campaign, has really promised that he wouldn't get the US Involved in these Middle east conflicts. He was very critical of past presidents involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan. And so and when he got involved in Iran before with bombings, and also when he got involved in taking out the leader of Venezuela, some of these MAGA factions also made noise. Then I would say that given the fact that there doesn't seem to be a ton of strategy behind this decision in Iran or it shifts every day. And then also the unclear timeline for how long the US Will be involved there really has incited this wing of the MAGA base just to say this really isn't what we signed up for. And I just want to point out it's not just the MAGA wing that the White House is worried about. It's also independent voters who aren't necessarily Republican, but who backed Trump in 2024. You know, voters overwhelmingly disapprove of Iran. And a key part of the midterms will be getting these independent swing voters like young men, black men, and Hispanics to keep supporting Republicans in 2026.
- [05:03]
Carol Massar
I got to say, Nancy, I keep shaking my head thinking, wait a minute, we've already deter. Affordability is such an important issue, right? We know from past elections it's the economy, stupid. Like, we get this. This is a playbook that is in many ways tried and true. And I'm just trying to understand, you know, who is calling the Shots on this ward. Is this really what President Trump wants? And it makes me wonder, is there some crazy strategy that we're not paying attention to that gives him the confidence to do this? I know the midterms are, what, eight months or so out? Maybe. I'm not counting.
- [05:38]
Tim Stannweck
Right.
- [05:38]
Carol Massar
Maybe it's six months, eight months. But I'm just wondering, like, is there some strategy that they're like, don't worry about it. We're going to challenge the elections. The midterm result, like, I'm just trying to understand this, how this fits in.
- [05:53]
Nancy Cook
So from my sources who I speak to, you know, Trump, really, he's a lame duck president. He's not running for president again, or at least that's what we think so far. And he really views this opportunity in the Middle east to shape foreign policy. And so what he is doing is he is ignoring his advisers pleas to keep focusing on affordability. And he sees these huge opportunities to reshape the global order. We saw that with NATO and sort of how he's pressured those countries to up their military spending. We've seen it with Venezuela. We've seen it with Iran. He's, his administration is eyeing leadership changes in Cuba. And so he is looking at his legacy, and he has decided that he wants foreign policy and reshaping that world order to be part of that legacy. Legacy. And he is kind of ignoring advisers and all the outside pollsters who say the midterms are going to be about the economy. We know that's the case. And he's, he's, he's thinking much more broadly about how he wants to be remembered.
- [06:52]
Tim Stannweck
Well, what about Republican strategists? What are they saying during this time period about the potential political payoff? Because if it seems as though, you know, he's not necessarily listening to advisers, what do they think about the potential impact as we walk step by step closer to the midterm elections?
- [07:08]
Carol Massar
Maybe it makes him look, Nancy, very presidential in some ways, right?
- [07:12]
Nancy Cook
Maybe. I think it just introduces a huge unknown into the midterms. And I think that Republican strategists are worried that if the conflict goes on for a long time, that this will overshadow the midterms. The other political risk is, of course, rising energy prices, which we've already seen happen this week. You know, gas prices has been a real bright spot in his economic agenda, whereas tariffs and other things have been more nuanced and complicated things. And if the energy prices continue to rise, then that could be a real political problem for the president in November, you have to remember, gas prices and grocery prices are usually what voters think of when they think about, is my life affordable? Am I feeling comfortable?
- [07:55]
Carol Massar
You know, it's interesting though, for somebody who, you know, I think you've already referred to this. You know, he thinks of himself as the peace president. He's been been critical of past presidents, George W. In particular. Right. In terms of their decision to launch the Iraqi war. So it's interesting to see him do this.
- [08:14]
Nancy Cook
Yeah, I think it just shows that he has never had. He does have some fixed ideas about tariffs, for instance, and he has some fixed ideas about immigration. But I do think that his sort of political instincts are fairly malleable. And we've seen that over his decades as a politician. And it is quite interesting that he has decided to really become this foreign policy president in a way that I couldn't have even anticipated when I covered his 2024 campaign. It's been a surprise to me the extent to which he has involved the US in these different countries and sort of who's going to be running them and just involving the US Military.
- [08:53]
Tim Stannweck
Well, I want to go back to what you were talking about in terms of swing state voters. How do you think about the potential impacts, what are you hearing from your sources about the impacts of gas prices, given the fact that the economy in its state is something that everyone experiences, no matter what type of political affiliation you have? So thinking about this K shaped economy that we're dealing with, plus the gas prices, how do you hear from your sources that they're thinking about the impact for some of those swing state voters?
- [09:20]
Nancy Cook
Well, I think Republicans are quite worried. A lot of Republicans that I speak to privately think that they will lose the House of Representatives. They think that Republicans will hold on to the Senate but narrowly. And, you know, a big part of that is because Trump keeps straying from this affordability message. Americans still feel like grocery prices are still high. If the energy prices keep going up, that's a problem. Housing continues to be a persistent problem. We've seen the jobs numbers really aren't, you know, coming in at great numbers. Plus people are, you know, companies are starting to shut a lot of jobs. It's hard for people to get hired. So the economic picture is just really nuanced and not as great as many voters thought it would be. You have to remember, Trump returned to power by criticizing Joe Biden relentlessly for inflation and his handling of the economy. And now he, Trump himself, is experiencing the same economic problems that really undid the Democrats all Right.
- [10:17]
Carol Massar
So it's just interesting to see this go on. And I go back to, you know, I always think about Nancy with this White House. And this is because everyone kind of seems to say to us, it's, there's a lot always going on. And you wonder what you are looking at versus what you should be looking at. And I do, once again go to the November elections. You know, whether or not I was just looking at, don't judge me. But on polymarket in terms of mail ins and whether or not President Trump is going to, you know, not allow those. And I think 30% of voters cast in the 2024 presidential election were mail in ballots. So we know that this is important. So I just, I just wonder what might be going on behind the scenes. Not to be like a, you know, conspiracy person or anything. Hey, one of the things I want to ask you is where is Congress with all of this stuff going on? Why are they not in Washington?
- [11:07]
Nancy Cook
Well, Congress, you know, they, they always take big breaks. You know, part of the government is shut down, or at least DHS is. And you know, Congress, you also have to remember the Republicans on the Hill, they control both the House and the Senate, have really acquiesced to Trump on everything. I do think that, you know, if they lose the midterms, then we may see more Republicans standing up to Trump. But, you know, Republicans have not been a huge guardrail against this president. You know, he did not ask Congress about the bombing of Iran ahead of time. He did not get Congress to authorize this. And so, you know, he sort of left them out of the decision making process. And that's really their own doing. They haven't stood up for themselves to make sure that they are a check on the White House.
- [11:50]
Tim Stannweck
So if Congress does actually feel sidelined in this moment, what tools does it actually have, if you will, to rein in the administration?
- [12:00]
Nancy Cook
Well, Congress took a vote last week which Representative Thomas Massie put forward to try to reign, pull back some of Trump's power in Iran. It failed in the House. And so, you know, there is democracy working. It's just not. The Republicans are sort of loathe to put that check on. I think what will happen is that if Republicans do lose the House and Democrats take over, what we will see is a huge raft of investigations into how Trump handled Iran, into how his family is profiting off of the White House. I think a ton of cabinet officials will be hauled up to Congress testify. And so I think that, you know, Trump is well aware that if Republicans lose the house. There will be a lot of investigations. He could be impeached again, for instance. However, I still think that he's very focused on this idea of nation building and legacy in a way that a lot of us didn't foresee during the last presidential campaign.
- [12:56]
Carol Massar
Yeah, totally. I think it caught us all off guard, especially when you think of how the 2026 began with Venezuela. Nancy, thank you so much. Bloomberg News senior national political correspondent Nancy Cook. Be sure to check out it was a big take. You can find that story on the Bloomberg and@Bloomberg.com stay with us. More from Bloomberg Businessweek Daily coming up after this. They told us to expect change. They warned us about the transition, but honestly, they forgot the best part. This is the chapter where we finally focus on us. LifeMD delivers expert menopause and midlife care right from your home. From hormone health to holistic wellness, LifeMD helps you feel your best for the best years of your life. LifeMD it's just getting good. Visit LifeMD.com GoodLife so there's a lot
- [13:54]
IBM Advertiser
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- [14:22]
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- [15:36]
Carol Massar
You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week daily podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5 Eastern. Listen on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app or watch us live on YouTube. We do want to get into, though, what's going on with crude and think about that in terms of economic and market implications. We did see WTI crude nearly hitting 120 a barrel today. President Trump addressed higher oil prices specifically on Saturday in an exchange with Bloomberg News senior White House correspondent Josh Wingrove.
- [16:08]
Public Advertiser
What about the Strait of Hormuz?
- [16:10]
Carol Massar
There's no traffic really going through. Well, that's, you know, the ship's choices, but we haven' cleaned out. We've wiped out their navy. The navy is now at the bottom of the sea. So that's the choice. This is an excursion. We figured oil prices would go up, which they will. They'll also come down. They'll come down very fast and we will have gotten rid of a major,
- [16:31]
Public Advertiser
major cancer on the face of the earth.
- [16:35]
Carol Massar
Again, that was President Trump over the weekend on Saturday. And yes, indeed, markets do go up, markets go down. It's just the duration of those cycles that we're all trying to figure out. I also do want to point out President Trump writing this on Sunday. He said short term oil prices, which will drop rapidly when the destruction of the Iran nuclear threat is over, is a very small price to pay for the United States of America and world safety and peace. Only fools would think differently. Again, this is coming from the president writing out on social on Sunday. Continuing to tie together the social posts, the war, the economic consequences and so much more is Bloomberg Economics Chief Geo Economics Analyst, Economic Jennifer Welch. She joins us from the Bloomberg DC Bureau. She's been a go to for us. Jenny, good to have you here with Noor and myself on Monday. I want to just take a step back and just I'm curious about the conversations you guys have been having through the weekend. Today, another new week, second week of this US War in Iran. Is there any consensus around the timeline of what the President and his team are thinking about how long this war lasts?
- [17:40]
Jennifer Welch
No. And even the administration has given conflicting ideas on how long they think this would last. If you recall, President Trump was saying last week that they originally planned for this to be four to five weeks, but now they've accomplished some of their goals a little bit sooner. So it may be shorter. But at the same time, he's willing to stay in the fight for as long as it takes while his secretary of war, Pete Hegseth, is saying this won't be a forever war. But I think a couple of signs over the weekend point to the fact that this isn't likely to wrap up anytime soon. In addition to President Trump's comments about seeking an unconditional surrender, something that Iran does not seem interested in, and suggesting the US Is going to escalate on its side, we also have Iran choosing a new supreme leader, who for his part, also doesn't seem to be in a rush for diplomacy or negotiations. So I think we see both sides digging in their heels here, preparing to fight this out, and Iran in particular realizing that its strategy of imposing costs on the region and on global oil markets may be starting to pay off.
- [18:36]
Carol Massar
What do we know about the leader that was chosen and where President Trump feels about this? As you said, he has said he wants to kind of base the basically sign off on this. It is the son of Ayatollah Al Khamenei, and my understanding is that maybe even more conservative than his father was. But what do we know and, you know, what are we kind of trying to figure out? Read the tea leaves about any kind of conversations, perhaps backroom conversations that perhaps us And Iran might be having.
- [19:05]
Jennifer Welch
Yes. So the new supreme leader, most of Al Khamenei, he's the son of the late supreme leader, was widely expected to be the successor to him. He is conservative like his father, shares many of his ideological leanings, including and really believing in the core tenets of the Islamic Republic. So by no means a reformer or a change agent. This is his first public role, though, so there's a lot that we don't know about his leanings. He could prove to be more pragmatic, but at the same time, he is facing sanctions by the United States, has lost many close family members in this war already, including his father and his wife, and he's probably not in a rush to talks. I think the perspective in Tehran from members of the Islamic Republic is that they are in a war of resistance right now with the United States. And it's somewhat of an asymmetric one where they are willing to bear a lot of costs and suffer a lot of pain. And their goal is to try and make the United States and its partners blink first. And I think what all of that points to is that we won't be seeing Iran moving forward towards a surrender or the sort of decapitation arrangement that the Trump administration arranged with Venezuela, which may be what Washington had been pinning its hopes on.
- [20:17]
Tim Stannweck
So when we think about this new leadership, what aspects in particular do you think are most crucial as we think about this transition period between there, as well as just geopolitically speaking, the relations between countries here?
- [20:33]
Jennifer Welch
I think the important thing to keep in mind and what the selection of a new supreme leader demonstrates is even though US And Israeli strikes took out a significant number of senior Iranian officials, including the former supreme leader, the system is surviving, and it's finding new ways and new people to put in charge. And I think what that suggests is a level of resilience that makes a campaign to force Iran's total surrender or whatever goals the Trump administration currently has in mind very difficult and the sort of campaign that might last longer than what the administration had originally envisioned. They were hoping that Iran would fold rather quickly after these massive strikes. That doesn't seem to be the case. And I think also when you look at the military perspective, it's sort of a similar story. Iran is continuing to carry out strikes on Gulf countries, countries to hold shipping in the Strait of Hormuz at risk. And all of that is part of the reason why we haven't seen traffic resume, despite what President Trump talked about in that clip with offering naval escorts and protection, that ships don't seem to be taking him up on that offer.
- [21:33]
Carol Massar
I keep thinking, too, Jenny, about all of this against the region, because it's not just Iran and the U.S. iran and Israel. We are feeling strikes throughout the region. And I saw in our reporting, you know, Saudi Arabia hardening its tone against Iran as it dealt with incoming projectiles again today, including ones heading toward oil giant Aramco's Shiba Field and areas in and around Riyadh. This new leader, any consensus, as you said, he hasn't been very public. This is his first public role. But is there any consensus that we're hearing from the region about what this leader might mean for Iran going forward? And as you remind us, the regime is never one person. It's many people.
- [22:15]
Jennifer Welch
It's many people. But this particular person in particular seems to be more in line with his father's perspective on fighting the full fight. Right. And using proxies and partners to continue this war of resistance against the United States, whether it's a hot war like what we're seeing today, or more the sort of long battle by proxy that had been the preceding decades kind of conflict. I think what this means for partners in the region is they're facing increasingly tough choices as their air defenses start to run out, come under strain by the just volume of Iranian projectiles that they are dealing with. They're going to start to need to make choices about where they dedicate those air defenses. I think also this is forcing a bit of reluctance or frustration with the United States that the US Began this conflict despite them lobbying Washington not to proceed with it and despite it putting them in the front lines of this battle that they didn't want to participate in. And they actually have not been, for most of them, really active participants in to date. Yet that didn't seem to spare them from taking a lot of the incoming from Iran.
- [23:19]
Tim Stannweck
So could his appointment at all increase the likelihood of deeper economic retaliation against Gulf states or Western interest interests for that matter? And if so, what will be the knock on effects for regional trade flows?
- [23:33]
Jennifer Welch
I actually think the longer poll in the tent for that will be the stockpiles that Iran still has left at its disposal, how many missiles it has left, how many drones it has left. The United States and Israel have really focused their attacks on decimating those capabilities and in particular on the missile side, destroying Iran's missile production facilities, its missile launchers. We don't know how many missiles it still has in its stockpiles, but if it can't launch them, then that is a real cap on its ability to hold those assets and shipping in the region at risk.
- [24:03]
Public Advertiser
Risk.
- [24:03]
Jennifer Welch
But I think the intent will remain there because this is a strategy that Iran thinks is working, that it can essentially force other partners in the region who don't want to incur these costs to blink and to put Washington under pressure to bring the war to an end. They're also probably betting that the more that gas prices rise in the United States, that will also exert pressure on President Trump. So I think it's less about intent and more about capability. And that right now is a real big open question. But I would stagger to guess that at least their drone stockpile is significant enough for this to be a problem for at least the next few weeks.
- [24:38]
Carol Massar
I also do wonder, you know, and I want to shift to your many hats that you wear about the economic impact globally and certainly on the U.S. you know, we just had a headline from the information crossing that Metta platforms closing its Tel Aviv office temporarily. That coming from the information we had last week, a story about drone strikes damaging three facilities operated by Amazon.com in the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain. So I do Think about this region that is really many areas have transformed themselves and embraced, I don't want to say capitalism, but to some extent, yes, you know, in terms of building up their financial presence as a, trying to attract in more investors, is it too soon to say that there will be some kind of economics impact on that region?
- [25:25]
Jennifer Welch
I think it is a little too soon to say that there'll be a long term impact. But I think certainly the perspective from a lot of Gulf countries that as you mentioned, have made a bet on transforming themselves into sort of pillars of stability in an otherwise somewhat tumultuous region is having all of this incoming, having these, this conflict, having to deal with strikes on civilian facilities, all of that really undercuts this image that they have with worked so long to build up. We're seeing a number of multinationals talk about ceasing operations or having to shift to different footing as a result of the conflicts. And I think it's going to take time for them to not just rebuild those air defense stockpiles, but to rebuild that image that this conflict has really hit hard.
- [26:07]
Tim Stannweck
Beyond just gasoline and the United States, what sectors do you think also may feel the brunt of higher energy costs? I know you mentioned the that fact, fact that potentially Iran is betting on the fact that President Donald Trump will actually take a step back given the fact that there are a lot of concerns from US Consumers about elevated gas prices.
- [26:27]
Jennifer Welch
That's really the wicked problem when it comes to higher oil prices is they tend to affect everything that gets transported using gasoline and oil. So it's highly inflationary. And I think that's going to be the real challenge facing the United States. Even though we're a net energy producer now and that will cushion the economic impact to a certain degree. It won't necessarily help folks when it comes to what the cost is at the pump and what the cost is at the grocery store and the impact on inflation will really depend on how long this conflict lasts and how high oil prices go. And those are interrelated. The more markets think that these disruptions won't be temporary, likely the higher oil prices are to go. We saw them touch very high levels overnight in Asia trading. They're likely to to continue to grow. If we think, for example, the Strait of Hormuz won't be opening anytime soon, that could put prices well above 110, we estimate even higher than that. If there's a presupposition in the markets that the street is going to remain closed for as long as two to three months. We could see prices rise much higher and the impact on inflation could be quite significant.
- [27:30]
Carol Massar
Which brings us to something we started talking about on Friday, Jenny, and that is just to kind of wrap up up here. This concern about stagflation coming off of a weak jobs report report concerns about, you know, growth slowing. Yet those inflationary concerns were out there even before this US War in Iran. And this just exacerbates the situation. When, when do we make a call on stagflation and you know, once that train has kind of left the station, like how quickly does it happen?
- [27:58]
Jennifer Welch
That's going to be, I think a central challenge for not just the Fed but of a lot, lot of central banks is how much can they look through the impact of higher oil prices on inflation? Do they think it's going to be temporary or are they going to be facing this dual challenge of dealing with higher inflation but also lower growth expectations as a result of these energy prices and in many places real direct energy disruptions because they simply aren't able to access anything. I think the next few days will be telling in terms of how long these disruptions might last.
- [28:25]
Carol Massar
It's the million, billion trillion dollar question, right? How long does it this last and that really then can make us figure out the equation as to what will ultimately be the impact. You put it all in place though, as we need to do as we go from day to day. Jenny, thank you so much. Jenny Welch is Bloomberg Economics chief Geo Economics analyst there in our D.C. bureau. Stay with us. More from Bloomberg Businessweek Daily coming up after this.
- [28:53]
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- [29:23]
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- [31:24]
Carol Massar
You're listening to the Bloomberg Businessweek Daily Podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5 Eastern. Listen on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app or watch us live on YouTube. Hey, shares of Novo Nordisk, the ADR that trade here in the US and him's and hers health moving, especially hims and hers. In fact, that one soaring the most ever intraday, the two are going to work together to sell obesity drugs, a sudden reversal after more than eight months of acrimony that culminated in a legal battle. Which is what made me say this morning. Wait, what?
- [31:57]
Tim Stannweck
It's been a story.
- [31:58]
Carol Massar
It's been a story. So here to explain it has been quite a story. Here to explain it all is Bloomberg News health reporter Madison Mueller. She joins us now in our Bloomberg Interactive Brokers studio. So first of all, I'm kind of like, what happened? But tell us, what was that issue? Why these guys were battling?
- [32:13]
Madison Mueller
Yeah, I mean I also, as someone who follows this space really closely, was absolutely shocked when we broke this story on Friday night. And at first I didn't believe it when I heard this. I was like, this can't be right. I mean these guys have been trading barbs for months. You know the him saying that. That the lawsuit was an attack from, like, from a Danish company on an AM on Americans. Like, there's a lot of weird animosity, a lot going on, a very, very tumultuous relationship. But basically the issue between the two companies goes back to last year. They had teamed up to, you know, Novo and Lilly have a lot of these telehealth partnerships. It's something that helps them get their drugs to more Americans because of a lot. A lot of Americans are seeking out weight loss drugs on these telehealth platforms. And so novo teamed up with HIMS last year to offer its obesity medicines on HIMS telehealth platform. Then I think it was like, less than two months later, they abruptly ended the partnership because HIMSS was continuing to sell these copycat weight loss medications on its platform. And really, Novo said that the issue was the deceptive marketing and the fact that HIMS was continuing to really market these medications. You know, fast forward a couple of months. Novo is having its own issues here in the US Especially competition with Eli Lilly, competition with these telehealth companies. They launched a weight loss pill that was really key to their comeback strategy. And a couple of weeks later, HIMS launched a knockoff version of that pill. And so Novo was like, okay, we're done playing. We're gonna sue you. Like, pretty swift action. The FDA came in right behind that, and they were like, we are also going to crack down on compounded GLP1s. And then now, shockingly, they're dropping that lawsuit. They are turning a tide. They're. Yeah, exactly.
- [34:00]
Tim Stannweck
Basically sibling rivalry. Just watching that black back and forth.
- [34:04]
Nancy Cook
Yeah, so public.
- [34:05]
Tim Stannweck
So public out there for everyone to see. But I'm curious, when we think about the idea of copycat drugs, we obviously know that the, you know, United States kind of came in and pushed back on it alongside Novo Nordisk. But how far can you really run with something like that? What made Hims and hers feel as though that was something that they could do in the first place?
- [34:24]
Madison Mueller
Right, and that's a great question. So it was allowed for a certain period of time when the weight loss drugs were actually in shortage. So these compounding pharmacies can make copycat versions of medications when they're in short supply. And that shortage is something that the FDA designates. So it's pretty official. But then that shortage ended. Lilly and Novo were able to make enough of their drugs, but companies like Hims and some of these other telehealth companies, compounding pharmacies, continued selling the Drugs sort of operating under the assumption that, like, oh, the FDA is just not going to do anything. Like, we haven't seen them do anything before. You know, some of the, like, language, regular regulation around this is a little bit murky, a little bit of a gray area. Like, we think we're going to be okay. We're just going to keep doing this. Another way that they got around that was by not making exact copies of the medications, but by slightly tweaking the dosages, microdosing, things like that, adding B12, adding B6, adding A, whatever.
- [35:18]
Carol Massar
Was it patent infringement?
- [35:20]
Madison Mueller
Well, so that's what then Novo was suing him over. So that was the first time they had filed any type of lawsuit against a telehealth company for patent infringement. So it was really a step up, sort of signaled more aggressive action from Novo, and then now they've pulled that lawsuit.
- [35:36]
Carol Massar
So is this a win, win for both in your view? You've watched this space, you understand, and how it continues to evolve. Is it a win, win for both?
- [35:43]
Madison Mueller
Yeah, I mean, I mean, both of them are in really precarious situations. I mean, Novo really needs this partnership with Hims because they need pretty much any partnership they can get right now to get their drugs to more patients. Even though Novo created the US Weight loss market, they've really lost out in the last year or so to Eli. Yeah, it's pretty remarkable. So they kind of need to do everything that they can right now to get their drugs to more patients. Hims on the other side has really, you know, the last few weeks, especially with the Novo lawsuit with the FDA clamping down on compounded drugs. DOJ investigation, SEC investigation. Like, they have a lot going on, and the future for this compounded weight loss drug business was very uncertain. And their stock has really suffered as a result the last several months. And investors have really been questioning, like, what is the path forward for this company? And so they needed this deal. From that, you know, that perspective of needing a lane and an avenue forward
- [36:40]
Tim Stannweck
for growth, does Hampton Hers Health have any real competitor? I mean, from my perspective, I would assume as a consumer, it's really convenient that you can just go online, shop for what you're looking for, and then to my understanding, it's mailed to you. So do they have any other competitors that you kind of keep an eye on? It's interesting seeing them down so substantially on the year when you think about them as a convenient avenue.
- [37:04]
Madison Mueller
Right. It's interesting because there's actually not that many telehealth companies sort of in the same caliber that are public. So HIMS is usually used as sort of like a proxy for the industry. At least that's how I've, I've heard it described. They do have competitors like Weight Watchers now is offering GLP1 medications. They're actually public. RO is probably the biggest competitor to hims, but RO is still privately held, so not something that we can really assess from that standpoint. But there are some competitors out there. It's just HIMS tends to be the one that's like really on investors minds or you know, in sort of like the public consciousness and discourse.
- [37:41]
Carol Massar
I do want to point out if you take a look at HIMS and hers, I mean as you said, 31% to the downside here this year in 2026, almost 40% of the float is short. So there's a lot of negative sentiment. While you're here, before you go, I want to ask you about the head of the U.S. food and Drug Administration's division of Vaccines and Gene therapies is leaving the agency. It's not been a great tenure for him. I did see a lot of biotech shares moving late Friday and we continue to see it today. Significant.
- [38:10]
Madison Mueller
Yeah, yeah. This is definitely significant, especially for the biotech industry. Prasad's tenure has sort of been marked by a lot of controversy, a lot of issues for biotech companies. It's been a real challenge. And so a lot of investors sort of breathed a sigh of relief when they saw that he was exiting. You know, the FDA said that this was a planned departure, that he had only really planned to be at the agency for like a year. But that's not something that was widely known, I think, during his tenure. Yeah, so it definitely came as a surprise, but I think a welcome one. And we did see a lot of biostock biotech stocks moving on that last week.
- [38:47]
Carol Massar
Is it amazing all that she knows on this space blow my mind. Every time we talk, there's always lots happening. There is a lot happening. Right. I'm sure more to come. Madison, thanks.
- [38:56]
Madison Mueller
Thank you.
- [38:57]
Carol Massar
Really appreciate Bloomberg News health reporter Madison Mueller right here in our Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio. Stay with us. More from Bloomberg businessweek Daily coming up after this.
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- [41:55]
Carol Massar
Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5 eas listen on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app or watch us live on YouTube right now with us is Jordan Fabian. He's Bloomberg News White House editor and he joins us from the D.C. bureau. Jordan, let me toss it over to you. These headlines have definitely got attention on Wall Street. We've seen markets equities are now to the upside. We've seen the dollar back off. We've seen crude move way down. What are you guys hearing in terms of where the president is right now and whether or not this war might be coming to an end sooner rather than later?
- [42:36]
Jordan Fabian
Those top line comments to CBS News would certainly suggest that the president is looking for an off ramp. The White House and the president saw all these negative indicators in the markets over the weekend. Oil prices starting to crest, stocks falling. And so they certainly have taken note of that, that we're in a midterm election year, higher gas prices not great for the president's party. That being said, we'll have to see exactly what the president means. He seemed to send some conflicting signals in that CBS News interview, also saying that he would want the US Military to perhaps take control of the Strait of Hormuz. That would not indicate that this conflict is nearing an end if you would have US Forces just on off the coast of Iran there for the foreseeable future, safeguarding shipping while you have a armed hostile force right next door. So we'll have to see what he says here at the 530news conference to flesh that out.
- [43:35]
Carol Massar
Well, it's interesting because it was just Yesterday he called $100 and $100 a barrel oil a small price to pay his words and said the cost quote will drop rapidly when the destruction of the Iran nuclear threat is over, which didn't seem to indicate like kind of, you know, a little bit of pain for some gain I guess is how he saw it. It's just a reminder that his tone and tenor can change on any situation. What are you guys hearing from inside the White House? We know that his advisers have been thinking more about the midterms and that affordability story here in the United States.
- [44:13]
Jordan Fabian
Yeah, they certainly been tight lipped about the immediate comments he gave to cbs. But you know, all indications have been that they are sticking to this conflict, that they didn't want to back off. But the president, as you said, is fickle in nature. He could have had a change of heart looking at those numbers. It's also important to remember that this conflict was launched really without building up any public case for the war. The aims of the conflict themselves have been confusing and conflicting at times. And it doesn't appear that the White House has done a lot of thinking about the second, third day, fourth day after the conflict ends, you know, what happens in Iran. They've chosen the supreme leader son as the next supreme leader. Another hard line choice. So it's not as if the president's getting the type of regime that he would be able to control Allah Venezuela there. So, you know, it really begs the question of what all this was for at the end of the day if he does decide to pull the plug.
- [45:13]
Tim Stannweck
It's interesting, Jordan, because I think about immediately in markets the Trump put which is where this idea that Trump will intervene in any sort of way, whether it's reversing the extent of tariffs or any other issue that may could potentially be hurting markets. But as we've been talking about just in this conversation, he, he hasn't in this situation necessarily allayed a lot of concern returns up until today where we're seeing this reversal. So just how important is visibility not just for markets but for swing voters? Because we are coming up on this midterm election season.
- [45:47]
Jordan Fabian
Yes, tremendously important. You have voters, they care about the cost of living, which is high. Gas prices are one thing that is always on voters minds. There are signs with gas stations all around the country. They it's ever present in their mind and reinforces their perceptions of the economy. And so look, I think that's obviously on the White House's mind. But you know, they again, never really stated a public case or why this conflict was necessary at this time. And now, you know, this did not go as easily for them as Venezuela. The public is also very hesitant about overseas military intervention tensions, especially in the Middle east, given how poorly Iraq and Afghanistan ended for the United States. And so, you know, all these problems you're seeing coming home to roost for Trump and you know, he might pull out of this conflict and that might allay investor concern in the interim. But you know, he's done a lot to destabilize the executive branches as an institution, the private sector as an entity. And so it's interesting to me that there's always this, this put where he's just going to do something more destabilizing likely in the future given the track record of this administration so far, just
- [47:02]
Carol Massar
2026 and it's only March if you think about what's happened since the beginning of the year. Hey, Jordan, just one more thing. I mean, the president was also weighing the option of deploying some special forces on the ground to seize Iran's near bomb grade uranium. You know, officials also concerned that maybe that actually that stockpile has been moved. This according to I think you guys reported out three diplomatic officials briefed on the matter. So there's also that at play. So again, it just gets to what's the mission? What's the end game here?
- [47:31]
Jordan Fabian
Right? And was the mission harm reduction, reducing the threat Iran posed, cutting off its path to a nuclear weapon? Or was it regime change? Or was it, you know, the president was upset that Iran tried to, you know, assassinate him in 2024 and was looking for a measure of revenge. He's thrown out all these reasons himself and now we're left to guess what the next step is.
- [47:54]
Carol Massar
Well, next step is that press conference right tonight from Florida. So we'll see what the president says. We know you guys will be all over it and we'll be monitoring the reporting. So appreciate it, Jordan. Thank you so much. That, of course, is Jordan Fabian. He's Bloomberg News White House editor. Joining us from a
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Carol Massar
Bloomberg Business Week daily podcast, available on Apple, Spotify and anywhere else you get. Your podcasts listen live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5pm Eastern on Bloomberg.com, the iHeartRadio app, TuneIn and the Bloomberg Business app. You can also watch us live Every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg Terminal.
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