Mamdani Begins Term by Wiping Out 15 Months of Adams’ Orders

Summary

---

Bloomberg Businessweek – Episode Summary

Episode Title: Mamdani Begins Term by Wiping Out 15 Months of Adams’ Orders
Air Date: January 3, 2026
Hosts: Carol Massar, Tim Stenovec
Guests:

• Maribel Lopez (Founder & Enterprise Analyst, Lopez Research)
• Carolina Milanese (President & Principal Analyst, Creative Strategies)
• Laura Nahmias (New York City/State Reporter, Bloomberg News)
• David Schassler (Head of Multi Asset Solutions, Vaneck Funds)
• Ed Ludlow (Co-host, Bloomberg Technology)
• Ray Wang (CEO, Constellation Research, Co-founder, AI Forum)

---

Overview

This episode of Bloomberg Businessweek centers on three major themes:

1. The all-encompassing surge of AI and robotics at CES 2026, with industry experts forecasting trends and challenges.
2. A political update focusing on New York City’s new Mayor, Mamdani, executing sweeping changes within hours of taking office.
3. Explorations of disruption in the electric vehicles (EV) market—particularly Tesla’s slipping crown to China’s BYD, SpaceX’s IPO prospects, and broader tech and investment trends for 2026.

The show is a fast-paced, engaging analysis, blending expert commentary with current headlines, aiming to keep global business leaders and investors ahead of rapidly evolving trends.

---

1. CES 2026 Preview: The Age of AI and Humanoid Robotics

[02:03–11:25]

🔑 Key Discussion Points

• AI Saturation at CES:
  AI is omnipresent—impacting automotive, home automation, healthcare, and manufacturing.

  • “AI is going to be everywhere … more applications that will use sensors and drive data to offer a more personal experience … AI overload for sure.” — Carolina Milanese [03:08]
  • “It’s the year of physical AI … robots for everything from household chores to warehouse manufacturing.” — Maribel Lopez [04:00]

• Shift from Consumer Tech to Enterprise Tech:

  • CES isn’t just about gadgets: Heavyweights like Caterpillar and Siemens dominate, signaling enterprise priorities.
  • Focus on “picks and shovels”—i.e., chips, servers, and storage powering AI.

• Humanoid Robots – Hype vs. Reality:

  • Still “years away” from mainstream home adoption, robots require proof in industrial, controlled environments first.
  • Concerns linger around privacy, ROI, and consumer trust:
    “There's a lot of sensitivity around cameras in the home … the Roomba is pretty harmless, but what if robots can freely roam your room?” — Carolina Milanese [06:22]

• Winners in the AI Race:
  Brands championing transparency, security, and ethical use of AI will thrive:
  “Transparency … is going to drive engagement and trust. And without trust … you’re not going to get to what you want from consumers.” — Carolina Milanese [08:49]

• Key Companies & Leaders to Watch:

  • Lisa Su (AMD): “I'm still watching Lisa Su. I'm waiting to see if she gives Jensen [Huang] a full on run for his money.” — Maribel Lopez [11:06]
  • Nvidia: Facing challenges, but how will they respond to a changing market? — Carolina Milanese [11:18]

---

2. NYC Mayor Mamdani’s Fast Start

[14:30–17:02]

🔑 Key Discussion Points

• Rapid Executive Action:
  In his first 36 hours, Mamdani issued six executive orders—most notably creating the Office of Mass Engagement and forming a Mayor’s Advisory Committee on the Judiciary.

• Maintaining Grassroots Connections:
  The Office of Mass Engagement is seen as vital for retaining the grassroots coalition that swept Mamdani to victory.

  • “Mayors do this … try to find ways to stay connected to the people who put them in office in the first place.” — Laura Nahmias [14:52]

• Reforming Judicial Elections:
  Plans to address the lack of competitive local judicial elections, which have historically limited voter choice.

  • “Maybe we'll actually have a choice. That would be nice.” — Tim Stenovec [16:36]

---

3. Investment Themes for 2026: AI, Infrastructure, and Gold

[17:21–25:08]

🔑 Key Discussion Points

• Three Core Investing Themes (David Schassler):

  1. AI & Automation: Still early; shift from speculation to adoption phase.
  2. Infrastructure Buildout: “Old world assets” (e.g., real assets, infrastructure) needed to power new tech.
  3. Scarcity Assets: Gold and Bitcoin as essential hedges against deficit-driven risk.

• Gold: Why Now?

  • “If you don’t see gold in your portfolio, we view that as financial malpractice … Gold is the ultimate store value asset.” — David Schassler [19:38]
  • Target: Gold could hit $5,000 by 2026. [22:43]

• Bitcoin as a Coiled Spring:

  • Despite underperforming in 2025, Bitcoin’s scarcity and historical outperformance position it as a potential “catch up” trade for 2026.
  • “It has the same embedded characteristics [as gold], predominantly the scarcity that allow it to be a store of value.” — David Schassler [24:11]
  • Recommended allocation: 5% gold, 1–2% Bitcoin.

---

4. Tesla, BYD, and the Global EV Showdown

[27:42–37:30]

🔑 Key Discussion Points

• BYD Surpasses Tesla in EV Sales:

  • For the first time, China’s BYD outsold Tesla in pure electric vehicles (2.26M vs. 1.64M).
  • “But we’re talking about pure 100% battery electric … and China is rolling back incentives. The main difference—BYD doesn’t sell cars in America.” — Ed Ludlow [29:21]

• Tesla’s Competitive Struggles:

  • BYD’s vertical integration and lower costs ($10K vs. $23K per vehicle) give it an edge—especially in Europe’s open market.
  • “It would be very, very hard without tariffs for Tesla to survive in Europe as well.” — Ray Wang [31:45]

• Tesla’s Shift Beyond Cars:

  • Energy storage (“megapacks”), self-driving, robotaxis, and humanoid robots (Optimus) are now central to Tesla’s narrative and future earnings.
  • “Short term it’s the energy side … then midterm is robotaxis … and longer term is robots.” — Ray Wang [33:18]

• Elon Musk’s Multitasking

  • No limit (per compensation plan) on Musk leading multiple companies: “There is a reason that they're not under one umbrella … regulatory headaches.” — Ed Ludlow [34:28]

• Mandatory Targets:

  • Musk is contractually obligated to sell 20M EVs over the next 10 years to achieve full compensation and board goals.

---

5. SpaceX, Starlink, and the Space Data Center Race

[35:50–37:19]

🔑 Key Discussion Points

• SpaceX IPO Outlook:
  Anticipated 2026 IPO could value company at $1.2–$1.5T, driven by Starlink’s rapid commercial and residential adoption (approaching 10M subscribers).

  • “It’s potentially anywhere from the $1.2 to $1.5 trillion IPO. Starlink … probably one of the most valuable assets.” — Ray Wang [36:06]

• Space-Based Data Centers:

  • SpaceX aims to raise $30–$40B to purchase GPUs for pushing data centers into space—an emerging “hot topic” for the year.
  • “We’ll have all year long to talk about the idea of data centers in space.” — Ed Ludlow [36:44]

---

📝 Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On Consumer AI and Robots:

  • “We're really starting to look for how that's actually playing out in the market. It's a big chip show—chips for everything. AI everywhere.” — Maribel Lopez [04:00]
  • “We have easily given a lot of our world over to technology … is that the same when we think about humanoid robots?” — Carol Massar [05:54]

• On Investing in Scarcity:

  • “If you don’t see gold in your portfolio, we view that as financial malpractice.” — David Schassler [19:38]
  • “You must have assets with embedded scarcity.” — David Schassler [19:55]

• On Tesla’s Changing Landscape:

  • “Our cars are way too expensive. The vertical integration that BYD has … is something that Tesla hasn’t been able to replicate.” — Ray Wang [31:45]
  • “Musk is required—mandatory—to sell 20 million vehicles over a 10 year period.” — Ed Ludlow [35:31]

---

📌 Timestamps for Major Segments

• CES 2026 & AI Everywhere: [02:03–11:25]
• NYC Mayor Mamdani’s First Actions: [14:30–17:02]
• Investment Outlook 2026 (with David Schassler): [17:21–25:08]
• Tesla, BYD, and the EV Wars: [27:42–37:30]
• SpaceX IPO and Starlink Discussion: [35:50–37:19]

---

Tone & Style Notes

The episode maintains Bloomberg’s signature tone: lively, data-driven, and forward-looking. The hosts allow guests to showcase their deep expertise and don’t shy from challenging assumptions—building an atmosphere of informed debate and strategic foresight. For listeners, the episode offers both market intelligence and big-picture, tech-driven futurecasting.

---

Transcript

[A]

At Marsh, we believe that perspective powers progress. That's why our individual businesses have come together as one company, a new Marsh built to solve the world's most complex challenges and uncover new opportunities for our clients. We're better positioned than ever to help your business navigate obstacles and unlock potential across risk, reinsurance and capital, people and investments, and management consulting. Learn [e-mail] podcast these days it seems.

[B]

Like AI agents are just about everywhere. You turn every field and every function. But without identity, you can't trust they'll serve your business instead of jeopardizing it. Fortunately, Okta helps you get identity right by securing your AI agents identities, giving you a single layer of control, a single standard of trust. So whether an AI agent supports a single user or your entire enterprise, with Okta you'll turn risk into opportunity. Secure every agent, secure any agent. Okta secures AI did you know Microsoft.

[C]

Has officially ended Support for Windows 10 Upgrade to Windows 11 with an LG Gram laptop? Voted PCMag's Reader's Choice Top Laptop Brand for 2025 Thin and ultra lightweight, the LG Gram keeps you productive anywhere and Windows 11 gives you access to free security updates and ongoing feature upgrades. Visit LGUSA.com iHeart for great seasonal savings on LG Gram laptops with Windows 11 PC Mag Reader's Choice Used with permission. All rights reserved.

[A]

Bloomberg Audio Studios Podcasts Radio News this.

[C]

Is Bloomberg businessweek Daily reporting from the magazine that helps global leaders stay ahead with insight on the people, companies and trends shaping today's complex economy. Plus global business, finance and tech news as it happens. The Bloomberg Business Week Daily podcast with Carol Massar and Tim Stanweck on Bloomberg Radio.

[D]

Hey, speaking of tech, the margins market's heightened focus on AI is raising investors hopes as consumer tech giants and watchers and journalists, everybody. I mean people are going from all over the world to Las Vegas to go to cbs, formerly known as the Consumer Electronics Show.

[A]

Your hand sanitizer.

[D]

Yeah, I mean that is the most important thing to bring the charging battery, battery charging stuff for your phone and hand sanitizer because if you haven't gotten sick yet, you're going to get sick at ces. I have bad news for everybody joining us live to set us up for the event, Maribel Lopez, founder and enterprise analyst at Lopez Research, and Carolina Milanese, president and principal Analyst at Creative Strategies. It's great to have you both with us. Carol mentioned bring this, bring this hand sanitizer. Both of you know that at this point by by this time going to cbs. Carolina, I want to start with you because there's always a theme at ces. I mean, when I went years ago, it was like this was before the Apple Watch came out, so everyone was talking about wearables and the year before that was, you know, the Internet of things. That was going to change everything. Is it just AI this year? Is that what it is?

[E]

Sadly so. In so many different ways. But AI is going to be everywhere. Whether we are talking about AI in cars and how that is help with EV and self driving, or are we talking about the start of Humanoids taking over our work at home or in factories from a consumer perspective who doesn't want somebody doing the dishes for you and then AI from health perspective. So more applications that will use sensors and drive data to offer a more personal experience in whatever device you're using. So yes, AI overload for sure.

[A]

Maribel, come on in on the conversation as we get ready for CBS and lots of stuff to flood the Bloomberg in terms of announcements from different companies. What are you watching out for?

[F]

One of the things I think is really interesting and Carolina picked up on some of the great things that we're looking at right now. I don't think those things are different. We've always talked about automotive, we've always talked about PCs. This year is going to be AI. PCs again. We had AI pieces last year. What I think is interesting is the Consumer Electronics show is so much of an enterprise show right now. You have folks like Caterpillar, you have folks like Siemens. We're talking about Humanoids. It's the year of physical AI, in my opinion, where we really start to see these robots come in that are for everything, as Carolina mentioned, from your household chores. But we're going to see a lot in warehouse manufacturing, health care, hospitality. So we're really starting to look for how that's actually playing out in the market. It's a big chip show, chips for everything. AI everywhere, AI and small devices, AI and large devices. So that's pretty much the name of the game here. Some software as well that we're going to see around AI.

[D]

I don't know. Maribel, convince me that this is not the start of some dystopian horror flick where, you know, we're all just around our homes and we have these robots that are.

[A]

Tim's been sick a couple of days, a couple of weeks now, sitting on the couch.

[D]

So it could be the suit of that talking. I don't know, but I don't, you know, do we do these? Do we want these robots in our homes with us.

[F]

So first of all, and Caroline, I'm sure you have a perspective on this as well. I still think we're a long way from actually having the robots in the home. You know, we've been talking about autonomous driving for a long time, and we're not all driving autonomous vehicles right now, but I do like directionally where we're going. We have across the globe. If you look at some of the issues with age in Japan and needing to have cobots, that's going to happen. I think we see these first in the enterprise. They have to be proven out in the enterprise because they have to be in environments where they're not necessarily with humans until they can get everything right. Because as you said, what could possibly go wrong with robots running around, right.

[A]

Carolina, you know, what could possibly go wrong? But I do think about, you know, I let room to enter my house now. I look at it and it was very primitive and I know it's not really a company anymore, but I do think about how we have easily kind of given a lot of our world over to technology. I don't carry cash anymore, so I am all in on like a digital universe. Is that the same when we think about humanoid robots, are we going to be as accepting?

[E]

I think it's different, especially when you welcome some something that looks more human into your home. You see already with consumers that there's a lot of sensitivity around cameras, for instance, in the home. And when you start, you know, the Roomba is pretty harmless, right? What damage can you actually do? Maybe polish your floors too much. But you know, when you actually talking about robots that have more cameras that are eye level, that can freely roam around your room and house with children involved or pets involved, I think there's a security concern, there's a privacy concern, and we don't know that the ROI is there yet. And I think that's where from a consumer perspective, you always have to balance. We are willing to give pretty much everything up. Look at how much we put on social media and then we scream privacy, right? But we need to have that return of investment. And I think that's the part that is still unclear.

[D]

When does that become clear, Maribel?

[F]

So from my perspective, I think first we have to see this really proven out in commercial. We have to see it be able to work with humans in things like factories before we put them into our home with our pets and our children, as we mentioned, as getting better. But we still have to get to the point where it's not just the physicality of the robot, it's the software, it's the speed of processing. It's a price point issue. These are expensive. They're too expensive right now for businesses to buy. So we're really not at consumer grade robots and by the way on that room, but I've had many a cable that were chopped up and sliced up quite a bit. So chopped up by the room, down by them, dropped up by the roomba. They love cables and the next thing you know your electronic devices are on the floor. So if you're in a cable free house.

[D]

Well, nobody said these devices would actually get along with each other.

[A]

I got to say. I know I had so I had some carpet fringe that was chewed up a little bit but I was like, yeah, you know, if you're going to vacuum got, you know there's going to be some problems here.

[C]

I've got.

[A]

Exactly, exactly. Seriously though, we've just got about two and a half, three minutes. Carolina, let me start with you. I mean who will be the winners when we look at AI and technology or things? Maybe some tones or hints that we might get out of CBS that you think we could be talking about a lot this year?

[E]

We're definitely going to talk about AI throughout 2026 and years to come. This is not a trend that is going to vanish. This is something that is going to be with us for a long time. And for me, the winners from a company perspective, especially when it comes to consumers, are the brands that are not making trade offs and not using US consumers as a byproduct of their success. So transparency when it comes to AI is going to be critical because transparency is going to drive engagement and trust. And without trust from a consumer perspective, you're not going to get to what you want from consumers which is daily engagement. And that's what at the end of the day is going to make all the investments that we've seen for companies across tech worthwhile.

[D]

Maribel, come on back in here. You cover enterprise and focus more so on enterprise. What's your prediction for enterprise tech that we're going to be talking about a year from now that maybe not unveiled but will be talked about a lot at ces.

[F]

Well actually I still think we're in the picks and shovels business with CES and with AI. So we're going to hear a lot from the chip companies. Those chips are going to go into everything whether it's large or small as I mentioned earlier. So I think they're going to be very successful over the next year. I think we're, you know, we've talked a lot about the AI PC, but if we look at the things that you need to actually make AI run in consumer devices, those are the things we're going to be still talking about that are successful. They're dead boring, you know, their servers, their storage, their chips. But these are the things that make the world go around right now. And those companies will be the companies that are making the announcements of things will actually be deployed next year, you know, Lenovo with their AI factories. We've got Jensen talking, we've got Lisa Su talking from AMD Qualcomm, you know, so the chips, the servers, the storage, they're all going to go into devices and it's a matter of whether or not they're large or small. So I think those are the trends that are, well, not sexy are the things that we're going to be talking about that have to happen so that we can get to the next level to actually make a reality and people's homes.

[A]

Hey, 10 seconds each. Just curious if there's one person or one company that you're going to be watching this year watching out for, who might it be? Maribel to you first. 10 seconds.

[F]

I'm still watching Lisa Sue. I'm waiting to see if she gives Jensen a full on run for his money.

[A]

All right, Interesting, interesting. And Carolina, same question to you. A person or company that you're going to be watching very closely this year.

[E]

I think in video just because there's going to be more challengers to them. And so it's going to be interesting to see how they respond to the changing market.

[A]

All right, should be an interesting one. Again, I can say both of you, thank you so much. Happy New Year. Great to have you here both in this discussion. Maribel Lopez, founder and enterprise analyst over at Lopez Research, and Carolina Milanese, the president and principal analyst at Creative Strategies, joining us here on this Friday.

[D]

Stay with us. More from Bloomberg businessweek Daily. Coming up after this.

[A]

Business challenges and opportunities are never one dimensional. At Marsh, we believe that to thrive, you need perspective. That's why our individual businesses have come together as one company. A newmarsh where each layer of our organization works even more closely together to provide you with a stronger, more panoramic perspective. We're now one firm solving the world's most complex challenges and unlocking opportunities for you across risk, reinsurance and capital, people and investments and management consulting. As business continues to evolve, Marsh will always be here to help you overcome new challenges, answer new questions, and take advantage of new opportunities. We're better positioned than ever to provide the perspective you need to fuel progress forward. See [e-mail] podcast these days it seems.

[B]

Like AI agents are just about everywhere you turn, every field and every function. But without identity, you can't trust they'll serve your business instead of jeopardizing it. Fortunately, Okta helps you get identity right by securing your AI agents identities, giving you a single layer of control, a single standard of trust. So whether an AI agent supports a single user or your entire enterprise, with Okta you'll turn risk into opportunity. Secure every agent, secure any agent. Okta secures AI.

[A]

You can get the news whenever you want it with Bloomberg News Now. I'm Amy Morris.

[G]

And I'm Karen Moscow, here to tell you about our new new On Demand news report delivered right to your podcast feed. Bloomberg News now is a short 5 minute audio report on the day's top stories. Episodes are published throughout the day with the latest information and data to keep you informed.

[A]

Yes, there are other products like this from a variety of news organizations, but they usually rerun their radio newscasts throughout the day. That's not what we do. We create customized episodes that can only be heard on Bloomberg News now.

[G]

And we don't wait an hour to publish breaking news. When news breaks, we'll have an episode up in your podcast feed within minutes so you're always getting the latest stories and developments.

[A]

Get the reporting and the context from Bloomberg's 3,000 journalists and analysts. We're all over the world. Listen to the latest from Bloomberg News now on Apple, Spotify or anywhere you listen.

[C]

You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5pm Eastern. Listen on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app or watch us on YouTube.

[D]

I want to bring in Laura Namius. She covers New York City and state for Bloomberg News. She joins us from New York right now. Laura, what do you make of both of these announcements, these executive orders, the Office of Mass Engagement, the Mayor's Advisory Committee on the Judiciary Leadership? How is this helping Mayor Mamdani deliver on what he promised during the campaign?

[G]

Well, both of these are interesting, but for different reasons. First, I should say Mamdani has had a very busy first day and a half in office. He's darting around the city. He's issued five executive orders already before the one that he's issuing now, creating this Office of Mass Engagement. But this is something that mayors do in different ways in my experience, my observation, try to find ways to stay connected to the people who put them in office in the first place. Mamdani's supporters and some political observers have said that Mamdani needs to maintain a connection to the people who put him in office, to the sort of grassroots support that elevated him from relative obscurity to becoming the mayor of New York City. And it seems like the creation of this office and the appointment of a woman who is the architect of a lot of his virality and campaign engagement to lead that office is a nod to that. The other announcement is really interesting and I'm eager to hear more and learn more about it, report more for us. One of the last bastions of sort of non competitive elections in New York City I don't know if our listeners or readers know about this is the judiciary. Maybe you've noticed on your ballot when you're filling it out, it says pick five candidates for judge and there's only five names available. Yeah, it's a wonky, wonky to get into. But it's a, but it's not a competitive process. And it sort of sounds like what Mamdani is doing here is appointing Mr. Najmi to, to look into that, among other things and potentially address that in New York City and state politics.

[D]

Okay, so maybe we'll actually have a choice, Carol. Maybe we'll actually have a choice.

[A]

That would be nice. That would be nice. Well, as you said, Laura, it's been a busy 24:48 hours for the new mayor of New York City and we of course will continue to monitor their press event happening in downtown Brooklyn and certainly reported out, as we know you will be doing so throughout the year. Laura Namius, New York Politics reporter at Bloomberg News. Laura, thank you so much.

[C]

This is the Bloomberg Businessweek Daily Podcast. Listen live each weekday starting at 2pm Eastern on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg 11:30.

[A]

So let's get to and see what our next guest has to say because he is thinking about a new era defined by innovation and financial accountability and that there are three key themes that investors should focus on here in the new year. Let's dive into those themes with David Schassler. He's head of Multi Asset Solutions at Vaneck Funds. Hey David, good to have you here. Happy New Year.

[C]

Happy New Year. Thank you for having us.

[A]

Well, it's great to have you back here on Bloomberg. So Talk to us about this new era defined by innovation and financial accountability. Are you talking about AI companies that are getting lots of money and spending lots of money but yet not making money or are you talking about something else?

[C]

We're talking about a lot of things. Everybody's grounded if you just think about investing. People are grounded in what they're used to. And they're used to a pre 2020 world where debt doesn't matter, deficits doesn't matter, you don't have this innovation that's literally changing the world. And what we're talking about right now is really setting up portfolios to thrive in that environment. That's what I want to talk about.

[A]

All right, so get into it and tell us in terms of what that means for maybe market rotation companies that we should have on our radar.

[C]

Yeah. So the first theme obviously is AI technology automation.

[B]

Got it.

[C]

Not really a new idea and people are probably sick of hearing about it. But we're moving from phase one, phase two. Phase one, these scarcities were in the compute and they were in the energy. We're now moving to phase two which is the adoption. That's, that's investors looking at and saying how do I get paid back? How do companies incorporate this technology to improve margins? That means it's going to get harder all at the same time where competition is going to get a lot more fierce. What we're saying is you could still make money in technology. Going to be a lot harder in 2026. We're overweight technology, but we're underweight the mag stocks. That's the number one theme. Number two is the build. How are we going to build it out? Empower it from an infrastructure perspective. So we're talking about infrastructure development. How do you actually use old world assets to build the new world? We're overweight real assets. And then the third, the third theme, if you don't own assets with embedded scarcity, we're in a period of financial abundance, we're in a period of financial excess. We've been here for a long time, but we're in a period now where accountability matters, debt matters, deficits matter and you really need to have assets with embedded scarcity. So when you look at your portfolio, if you don't seem see gold in your portfolio, we view that as financial malpractice. You must. Wow. Why? Gold is the ultimate store value asset. It is the ultimate, an original unit of account. It is out survived every fiat experiment ever. And when you have a system with so much debt, it's effectively acting as a sponge absorbing liquidity. And as that continues to happen, all roads lead to more money creation. More, more financial stimulus, More, more excess. Right. When, when you don't have a lot of good options and you bet you've spent and borrowed so much, the path forward becomes pretty obvious.

[D]

Okay, so that's your view on gold. I mean every portfolio is different. But if you don't have, you argue. If you don't have gold in your portfolio, it's financial malpractice. How much gold should people have?

[C]

5%. So we're not talking about betting the ranch on it. We're just saying that when you look at your asset allocation, you should have stocks, you should have bonds, you should have real assets and you should have assets with scarcity. And that's predominantly gold. But I'd also argue as well, 1 to 2% bitcoin makes sense as well.

[A]

I want to go back to gold because if you go back to the late 80s, early 90s all the way to.

[D]

She's looking at a chart, folks.

[A]

I am. 2004. I mean it's like a straight line. I mean we know gold went nowhere for so long.

[D]

And look at, look at silver. What Mike McGlone reminded us it took 50 years for silver to actually move.

[A]

Right. So I'm just curious, I mean, why do you think now it must be a part of your portfolio because who's to say it's maybe just had an unusual run up in the last year or so and that maybe that that's not going to continue? Maybe that's the anomaly.

[C]

So if you just stack, if you just take a step back and you look at asset classes over extended periods of time, you've got equities of the top performing asset followed by gold. And then you can go into bonds and you go into commodities. And gold has historically been a strong store value asset and it's performed very, very well. The average annualized return if you go back 56 a year to somewhere around 8%. Now there's certain periods of time when it really comes to life and outperforms was up over 60% in 2025. We're not saying that 2026 is going to look like 2025, but we still think it's going to be a strong performing asset. It's, it's an asset. If you look at it, given the issues that we're facing as investors, it's well suited to protect you. So we're not saying that gold is the only thing that you own, but if you look at your portfolio and you want a diversified, well balanced asset allocation. How could you omit it entirely? That's where our pushback is.

[D]

Okay, are you convinced?

[G]

I don't know.

[A]

I mean, I feel like we are. You know, I hate to say it's different this time around or we're living in unusual times, but I do agree with you David, that at some point governments and the deficits that they have, it's going to matter.

[D]

We've heard about that forever and then it's never. When does it matter?

[A]

You know, we'll see. Right. The rate environment's going to matter.

[F]

Right.

[A]

If the US government is spending a lot more on interest, I mean that's a problem.

[C]

It's been mattering post 2020. We've had persistently elevated inflation during that period. We've had a stealth bull market. Real assets gold has really come to life. We came out early last year with a price target of, of $5,000 in gold bullion. We said 12 to 18 months and we think we're on target for that. We think Gold hits $5,000 sometime in 2026 and goes beyond that. It's not going to go up in a straight line and shouldn't go up as much as it did in 2025. But we think that the bull market in gold as well as the bull market in real assets is going to continue for an extended period of time based off of the historical spending that we've done here and spending required needed to facilitate this capex build out for the onshoring as well as the infrastructure build that need to support AI and other technology.

[D]

We were just showing everybody watching TV the 40 year chart of gold. And you know, a big part of that was what happened 2012 to what 2020, which was that gold went down and kind of did nothing and it took took eight years to get back to those 2012 levels. Hey David, before we let you go, give us your bitcoin. Give us the bitcoin static view. That's the 40 year. That's a 40 year. Yeah, the 40 year or the, the view on bitcoin. Convince us and convince the skeptics rather that you should have at least 1 or 2% of your portfolio allocated to bitcoin. I mean this is a year where it fell six and a half percent. It's down roughly 30% from those all time highs. What's the, what's your conviction?

[C]

Our view on bitcoin is that it is very similar as a store value asset to gold. It has the same embedded characteristics and predominantly the scarcity that allow it to be a store of value asset. That being said, it's a highly differentiated asset relative to gold and every other asset out there. Our view on bitcoin, it's now maturing, it's a teenager at this point. It's underperformed significantly, right? It was down around 6% in 2025, underperformed gold by about 70%. So a huge dislocation underperformed technology stocks by about 30%. So we very much look at it as a coiled spring going into the next year. It's outperformed most other asset classes in most of its years of existence. So purely based off of relative mean reversion we expect it to be a catch up trade. But more importantly the windsat's back because that embed scarcity. And as we think the financial conditions become more easy in 2026, we think that bitcoin is going to rally later in the later part of the year.

[D]

Okay, we'll have to get you back on the program David, to check in with that prediction. David Schassler, head of Multiasset solutions over at Vaneck Funds. Stay with us. More from Bloomberg Businessweek Daily coming up after this.

[B]

These days it seems like AI agents are just about everywhere. You turn every field and every function. But without identity, you can't trust they'll serve your business inst of jeopardizing it. Fortunately, OKTA helps you get identity right by securing your AI agents identities, giving you a single layer of control, a single standard of trust. So whether an AI agent supports a single user or your entire enterprise, with Okta you'll turn risk into opportunity. Secure every agent, Secure any agent. OKTA secures AI I'm Barry Ritholtz inviting.

[C]

You to join me for the Masters in Business podcast. Every week we bring you fascinating conversations with the people who shape markets, investing and business. CEOs, fund managers, billionaires, Nobel laureates, traders, analysts, economists, everybody that affects what's going on in the market. Whether you own stocks, bonds, real estate, commodities, crypto, you really need to hear these conversations. Sometimes it's behaviorists like Dick Thaler or Bob Shiller. Sometimes it's fund managers like Peter Lynch, Bill Miller, Ray Dalio. Sometimes it's authors. Michael Lewis, author of the Big Short and Moneyball. Regardless of the conversation, these are the folks that move markets each week. That's the Masters in Business podcast with me, Barry Ritholtz. Listen on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Reggie I just sold my car online let's go, Grandpa. Wait, you did?

[D]

Yep, On Carvana.

[C]

Just put in the license plate, answered.

[D]

A few questions, got an offer in minutes.

[B]

Easier than setting up that new digital picture frame.

[C]

You don't say. Yeah, they're even picking it up tomorrow. Talk about fast. Wow. Way to go. So, about that picture frame. Ah, forget about it.

[D]

Until Carvana makes one, I'm not interested.

[A]

Car selling made easy on Carvana. Pickup fees may apply.

[C]

You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week daily podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5pm Eastern. Listen on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app or watch us live on YouTube.

[A]

We want to talk a little bit about what's going on, particularly when it comes to Tesla, because, boy, have the times changed. China's BYD overtook Tesla as the world's top EV maker, a company that Elon Musk once dismissed as competition. In a 2011 interview with Bloomberg Work. You don't see them at all as a competitor. Why is that? I mean, they offer a lower price.

[C]

Point, I don't think. I don't think they have a great product. Why is that? I don't think it's particularly attractive. The technology is not very strong. And BYD as a company has pretty severe problems in their home turf in China.

[A]

Right.

[C]

So I think they. Their focus is, and rightly should be on making sure they don't die in China.

[A]

All right, that was Elon Musk in an interview that was back in 2011. We should point out that he made some comments again on BYD. That was in May of 2023, a post on X. And he said in reference to that 2011 click, that was many years ago. Their cars by these cars are highly competitive these days. So he's changed his tune a little bit. But you know, there's a rivalry, no doubt about it.

[D]

I think that's fair to say.

[A]

I think that's fair to say. Let's see what Bloomberg Technology Co host Ed Ludlow, Bloomberg Tech Co Host host Ed Ludlow has to say. He joins us from out there on the West Coast. Also on the West Coast, Ray Wang. He's CEO of Constellation Research and co founder of AI Forum. Hello, gentlemen. Happy New Year to both of you. But Ed, let's kick it off with you. 2011 A long time ago, right? And Elon then came out and said, okay, they've got some pretty cool stuff. What's going on with the EV race? I mean, is it just a case that Elon's got a lot more competition today?

[H]

It's interesting because they actually both suffer from the same counter forces at the moment. You know, the headline is that on an annualized basis for the year, BYD sold more electric vehicles around the world than Tesla did. But we're talking about pure 100% battery electric because BYD also does hybrids. Tesla does not. So BYD hit 2.26 million pure battery EVs. Tesla did 1.64 million in China. They're both facing a very aggressive competitive field. Zhou Mei Xpeng Geely is right behind BYD in the number two slot. And China, just like in the United States, is rolling back incentives. The main point of difference being BYD doesn't sell cars in America. So Tesla's got to take all of that in aggregate and look at the European market to where there's evidence that Musk's political activities earlier in 2025 weighed on demand as well up.

[A]

So is it, you know, I think about Ed, how Elon thinks about this. I mean, he still has a very viable business, right. When it comes to EVs.

[H]

Yeah. In the third quarter of 2024, Musk said that, you know, his kind of best prediction was that Tesla's growth would be about 25, 30% in 2025. In the end it was down almost 9%. And he put that on the idea that they would have new affordable versions of the Model 3 Model Y. They did. Partly there is just macro Weakness in EVs in America. And partly, you know, this is not a stock or company where the valuation lies in the bread and butter business. Anyway. The final thing I leave you with on that though is do remember that the board has set Elon Musk a mandatory goal of delivering 20 million EVs over the. Of course, course of the next 10 years. And if he doesn't do that, he won't realize his full compensation or voting rights reward. And so it's still incumbent on him to focus on it, even if to his mind, the future is robo taxi and humanoid robots.

[D]

Ray, I want to bring you in here because you spent a lot of time traveling around the world. I mean, you were just telling us a few minutes ago of what your next few weeks look like. And you're going to be traveling all over. So you see the way that BYD cars are all over Europe at this point. In your view, can Tesla compete outside of the United States with byd? Reminder everybody, you can't buy a bhiwadi here in the us I think Tesla.

[I]

Can'T compete in a market where they don't have tariffs. And I think the reason is, as Ed knows, I mean, you're basically producing cars at $10,000 a unit. We're producing them at $23,000 a unit. That's really the problem. Our cars are way too expensive. And the vertical integration that BYD has from supply chain all the way out to a dealership in Europe, I mean, it's something that Tesla hasn't been able to replicate. So it'd be very, very hard in general without tariffs for Tesla to survive or for the German automakers to survive in Europe as well without any kind of tariffs. So it's going to be interesting to see what the global response to China will be for all the dumping of vehicles, EV vehicles going on into Europe and Asia.

[H]

The only thing I would throw in, guys, is the data point I found most interesting, noting that BYD also sells hybrids, but a million of the vehicles it sold were outside of China. So to raise point but the Tesla response to that would be that they built this facility in Germany and that they always wanted to have manufacturing within the market that they sell their vehicles at. But Europe's not exactly the same cost basis as China either. So they're kind of stuck in that regard.

[D]

Right. So they have China, they have Fremont, they have Austin, they have Germany, but they sell in a lot more markets than just those. Hey Ray, to that point in your view has has Tesla diversified enough away from autos with self driving, with the software as a subscription with other initiatives that it's doing like Optimus in the future to make it a company that is. Is worth buying in your view?

[I]

Definitely a company worth buying short term. It's really on the energy side. They did 12.5 gigawatt hours of energy deployment in Q3 and 13.4 in Q4. So people are definitely buying the megapacks. So that's your short term. Then the midterm is really going to be how the robotaxis turn out. And that's going to be an interesting conversation. But the incentives are put in place by the board as Ed was saying there. And then longer term is really optimists on the robots. Midterm too is also grok, depending how you look at that GROK and the physical AI and the and all the software side comes together. But this is really the challenge is how do you run multiple product lines and you know, and be able to focus and deliver at scale when you have operators in China that operating on one area focus with massive scale. And so in the long run I Think Tesla becomes a company that builds the robots to build the rope, build the cars and build everything else, and less so on the car and automobile side.

[A]

But I do think that that may be. Running multiple businesses is Elon's secret sauce. Ed, this is a company and an individual you've been following for a long time, whether it's energy deployment, whether it's robots, whether it's Grok. I mean this is a guy who seems to thrive on doing a lot.

[H]

Yeah. There's nothing in the compensation package which was ratified by investors that limits or stops Elon Musk being at the helm of multiple companies. There is no suggestion that he stops being the CEO of Space X when it goes public in the middle of next year, for example. There is a lot of interplay between those companies. But he's very clear, as we wrote about him being Businessweek in August, right on the front cover. There is a reason that they're not under one umbrella and that is largely the regulatory headache that that would bring to Elon Musk. It's okay to run them as separate companies, to Musk's mind, where they kind of have close relationships, but they are distinct and separate. And you either do or you don't accept the future vision, which is Tesla doesn't focus on selling cars to consumers. It runs a proprietary ride hailing service with various formats of robo taxi. And it does sell to the general population a fleet of humanoid robots. And if you do or don't accept that, that's down to you.

[A]

Hey, well, can I go as far and to ask you, do you think Elon or Tesla is moving on from EVs at some point?

[H]

But this is why you have to go with just the facts. And what is ratified in the package is that Elon Musk is required. It is mandatory to sell 20 million vehicles over a 10 year period. So what's he got to average per. Per quarter and per annum? You know, right now he's not tracking to reach that goal.

[D]

Hey Ray, before we let you go and I want to hopefully we'll get time with both of you on this, talk a little bit about Space X and what an IPO for 2026 looks like for Space X. Specifically Starlink's business. Right. Just from your analyst perspective, how does that business look on its own?

[I]

Oh, I mean the Starlink side of the house is growing crazy. They've got the commercial pieces. You've seen the partnerships with companies like United Airline Lines. You also see the commercial residential piece picking up as people are buying them across the board. But, but it's more than that. It's they're profitable. Right. This is one of Elon's profitable companies. It's going to be potentially anywhere from the $1.2 to $1.5 trillion IPO. And Starlink has got eight and a half million subscribers right now and going to about 10 million by the mid mid next year. So this is something that is probably one of the most valuable assets within.

[D]

Jump on in here because you and the team have been the ones reporting all the exclusive details on a potential time here.

[H]

The only thing, the only thing I'd add is the reason they want to raise 30 to 40 billion dollars is they know they need to buy GPUs for their plans for space based datacenter and I think we'll have all year long to talk about the idea of data centers in space.

[D]

Yeah. Mark laughed at me when I asked him about data centers in space just a few minutes ago.

[A]

There's enough stuff up there and he.

[D]

Said we, we still. Yeah, enough stuff up there and we yeah, plenty of room down here and plenty of solar power coming to the that comes to the earth to power data centers. Yeah.

[A]

He didn't seem well.

[I]

Japan just had that thing where they're able to actually generate power in space and bring it down. I think there's like an article about that.

[A]

Fascinating stuff.

[D]

No shortage, no shortage of what we're going to be talking about with both of you. Ray Wang, CEO of Constellation Research, co founder of AI Forum, and also of course, Ed Ludlow of Bloomberg Technology.

[C]

This is the Bloomberg businessweek Day Daily podcast, available on Apple, Spotify and anywhere else you get. Your podcasts listen live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5pm Eastern on Bloomberg.com, the iHeartRadio app, TuneIn and the Bloomberg Business App. You can also watch us live Every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg Terminal.

[B]

These days it seems like AI agents are just about everywhere you turn, every field and every function. But without identity, you can't trust they'll serve your business instead of jeopardizing it. Fortunately, Okta helps you get identity right by securing your AI agents identities, giving you a single layer of control, a single standard of trust. So whether an AI agent supports a single user or your entire enterprise, with Okta you'll turn risk into opportunity. Secure every agent, secure any agent. Okta secures AI.

[A]

This is Caroline Hyde and I'm Ed.

[H]

Ludlow inviting you to join us for Bloomberg Tech, a daily podcast focusing exclusively on technology, innovation and the future of business.

[A]

Every weekday, we bring you the top headlines from the world's biggest tech companies.

[H]

From finance to defense, AI to entertainment, and from startups to the Magnificent Seven.

[A]

We highlight the latest stories of the people and companies pushing the tech sector to new frontiers and the politics that shape global tech markets.

[H]

We do this all every weekday, then bring you the most important conversations and analysis in our podcast.

[A]

Search for Bloomberg tech on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, or anywhere else you listen.

[H]

Join us every afternoon on your commute home and stay ahead of the tech news cycle.

[A]

That's the Bloomberg Tech Podcast. I'm Caroline Hyde in New York.

[H]

And I'm Ed Ludlow in San Francisco. Subscribe today wherever you get your podcasts.