Paramount-Warner Bros. Judge Pauses Deal With Serious Issues

Summary

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Bloomberg Businessweek – Episode Summary

Episode Title: Paramount-Warner Bros. Judge Pauses Deal With Serious Issues
Date: July 20, 2026
Hosts: Carol Massar, Tim Stenovec
Key Guests: Chris Palmieri (Bloomberg News), Dina Esfandiary (Bloomberg Economics), Isabelle Lee (Bloomberg News), Avalon Purnell (Bloomberg News)

Episode Overview

This episode of Bloomberg Businessweek spotlights pivotal and timely stories shaping global business and society. Excitement centers on three major topics:

1. A federal judge halting Paramount-Skydance's acquisition of Warner Bros. Discovery.
2. The shifting geopolitical, economic, and military landscape in the Middle East.
3. The surge of gray-market peptide use in the US, fueled by crypto payments.
4. The media resurgence of controversial "pharma bro" Martin Shkreli.

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1. Paramount-Skydance/Warner Bros. Discovery Merger Paused

Guest: Chris Palmieri, Bloomberg News Entertainment Team Lead
[02:41-07:23]

Main Points

• Judge’s Temporary Halt:
  A federal judge in California issued a 14-day injunction pausing Paramount-Skydance’s $110 billion acquisition of Warner Bros. Discovery, just as the finish line neared.
• Regulatory Context:
  The DOJ approved the deal, and the EU was expected to follow suit. The sudden lawsuit by state attorneys general triggered this delay.
  • “Anything past September that Paramount doesn’t close, they have to pay Warner Brothers shareholders millions of dollars a day.” – Chris Palmieri [03:32]
• Antitrust Concerns:
  • The deal would combine two major studios, two giant cable channel groups (CBS, CNN), and two major streaming services—raising alarms in Hollywood and among antitrust authorities.
  • “If this isn’t antitrust, what is?” – Chris Palmieri [04:22]
  • However, the suit focused narrowly on studio market share, which is under 30%, weakening the AGs’ case.
• Deal Prospects:
  The pause is temporary. Attorneys general want a trial next year. If the deal is not closed soon, significant daily penalties accrue.
  • “Delraham their chief legal officer suggests it could go to the Supreme Court.” – Chris Palmieri [05:42]

Notable Quotes

• “There is a feeling the case was not as strong as it might have been. This is almost a relief for investors.” – Chris Palmieri [04:20]
• “Most of the Trump administration is seen as pretty pro-merger.” – Chris Palmieri [06:29]

Key Timestamps

• Merger background and urgency: [03:32-04:06]
• Antitrust case details: [04:22-05:11]
• Regulatory and legal outlook: [05:42-06:29]

---

2. The New Order in the Middle East

Guest: Dina Esfandiary, Bloomberg Economics Geoeconomics Analyst
[09:56-18:40]

Main Points

• Growing Instability:
  The Middle East’s turbulence has grown, especially since October 7th and the Gaza war, which shifted alliances and ignited new violence.
  • “Alliances were reshaped in the Middle East. Partnerships changed, new wars erupted, new violence erupted, and unfortunately, none of that looks like it’s going to be resolved anytime soon.” – Dina Esfandiary [10:31]
• Foreign Involvement:
  US, Russia, and China have all played roles in aggravating regional instability, while local governance failures exacerbate crises.
• U.S. Strategy:
  Initially, the US aimed for regime change in Iran. Now, war goals have become narrow and focused on control of the crucial Strait of Hormuz.
  • “It’s really unclear what President Trump’s objectives in this conflict are. But I think for now those objectives have become very limited.” – Dina Esfandiary [12:40]
• Failed Ceasefire:
  A recent MoU/ceasefire failed due to mutual distrust over implementation, especially US moves near the Strait of Hormuz.
• Israel and Gulf States:
  Israel is in a weaker regional position; rapprochement with Arab states is now taboo due to the protracted conflict.
  • “Some of the leadership of the Gulf Arab states now see Israel as a threat equal to, if not superior to, Iran.” – Dina Esfandiary [14:43]
• No End in Sight:
  Both sides are unwilling to de-escalate—and public sentiment (even in informal Twitter/X polls) expects ongoing conflict.
  • “We are on track towards this becoming the beginning of another forever war…The only way to end this is through diplomacy.” – Dina Esfandiary [16:12]
• Impact on Iran’s Population:
  War has suppressed domestic resistance to Iran’s government and provided a pretext for regaining street control.
  • “What this war did was buy the government time.” – Dina Esfandiary [17:41]

Notable Quotes

• “U.S. war goals have been changing since the war with Iran erupted. Initially it was about regime change…Now it’s become opening a strait.” – Dina Esfandiary [12:40]
• “The desire is there, but maybe the method of doing that is not.” – Carol Massar (re: peptides, also relevant to all domains) [27:58]

Key Timestamps

• Middle East context: [10:31-11:09]
• U.S. strategy in Iran: [12:16-12:40]
• Israel-Gulf relations: [14:16-14:43]
• War’s domestic impact in Iran: [17:41]

---

3. Peptide Craze and the Rise of Crypto Payments

Guest: Isabelle Lee, Bloomberg News Cross-Asset Reporter
[21:55-31:51]

Main Points

• What Are Peptides and Why the Craze?
  New “peptide 101” events are attracting regular crowds, with social media and celebrity endorsements stoking demand for gray-market, injectable “biohacking” substances.
  • “Now everyone talks about peptides. Jennifer Aniston said in 2023 that she was using peptides, and that was three years ago.” – Isabelle Lee [24:43]
• Legitimate vs. Gray Market:
  Prescription peptides (such as GLP-1s from Eli Lilly) are fully FDA-approved and available through official channels, but others are unregulated and sold online, often from overseas.
  • “If it’s prescribed by a doctor, you can use your chemical channels. Everything else, you probably can’t.” – Isabelle Lee [22:29]
• Crypto Makes a Comeback:
  Payments for gray-market peptides are often done with bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies to avoid detection or because standard credit cards refuse these transactions.
  • “People are using bitcoin to buy peptides from Chinese vendors. They’ve seen a 700% year-over-year increase.” – Isabelle Lee [24:41]
  • One buyer, previously crypto-skeptical, opened a Coinbase account solely to buy peptides.
• Risks and Trends:
  Buyers are often unconcerned about side effects and are mainly motivated by price and hype.
  • “If you can’t pronounce it, and if you can’t read it, you probably can’t buy it with a credit card.” – Isabelle Lee [22:35]
  • “No one has died from it, based on his knowledge. So for him, the downside is much less.” – Isabelle Lee [27:39]
• Culture and Business Angle:
  Participants are often tech-savvy, image-conscious, and part of a broader wellness trend.
  Discussion included “peptide parties” and even a mention of “sperm racing” as a facet of biohacking culture.

Notable Quotes

• “It’s a good initiation [to crypto], so to speak, until you had a taste of it.” – Isabelle Lee [30:32]
• “If you tell me there’s something that’ll make me prettier, look younger, stronger…give that to me. And that’s everything peptide promises.” – Isabelle Lee [28:04]

Key Timestamps

• Legal vs. illegal peptide purchases: [22:06-22:35]
• Crypto's role: [24:31-24:41]
• Attitudes at “peptide parties”: [26:20-28:14]

---

4. Martin Shkreli Returns to the Spotlight

Guest: Avalon Purnell, Bloomberg News Equities Reporter
[34:24-42:35]

Main Points

• Shkreli’s Background:
  Gained infamy in 2015 for hiking the price of a life-saving drug 5,000%, then faced multiple federal charges and a prison sentence.
• Current Activities:
  Now out of prison, Shkreli is conducting hours-long financial livestreams, dispensing stock picks, relationship advice, and memes.
  • “He offers off-the-cuff analysis on scores of companies…He’s ridiculed his viewers too.” – Carol Massar [34:24]
• Goodell Platform:
  Shkreli is focused on “Goodell,” a supposed Bloomberg Terminal competitor, promoting private company data coverage.
• Legal and Political Barriers:
  Shkreli is banned for life from the US pharma industry, and from certain securities roles, but is seeking a presidential pardon to return to the C-suite.
  • “He’s definitely looking out for a pardon because that would allow him to rejoin the C suite. He’s actually currently consulting and advising a photonics company.” – Avalon Purnell [39:27]
• Mixed Track Record:
  Has had some savvy calls in both biotech and tech stocks, but recent high-profile short recommendations (like SpaceX) have not always worked.
• Online Reaction:
  Shkreli maintains a die-hard base and a cadre of critics; his persona remains divisive and polarizing.
  • “He either has mega supporters or people who are pretty critical.” – Tim Stenoveck [40:30]
• Political Maneuvering:
  Publicly courting right-wing supporters and using social media and Discord to advance his case for a pardon.

Notable Quotes

• “Part of the reason we did not get to have a conversation is that he did ask to be paid. And as you both know, that is against our company's policy.” – Avalon Purnell [36:12]
• “He’s back, but he wouldn’t be completely back unless he gets a pardon from the President.” – Carol Massar [39:06]

Key Timestamps

• Drug pricing scandal recap: [35:29-36:02]
• Pardon strategy and business activity: [39:06-39:57]
• Online community and ongoing saga: [40:30-42:24]

---

Memorable and Humorous Moments

• On Peptides:
  “Do you want your TEMU peptides?” – Carol Massar [23:38]
  “If you can’t pronounce it, and if you can’t read it, you probably can’t [buy it].” – Isabelle Lee [22:35]
• On Sperm Racing as Biohacking:
  “He said he’s a sperm racer.” – Isabelle Lee [26:49]
  (General laughter and perplexity follow.)
• On Shkreli’s Redemption Arc:
  “He did ask to be paid…that is against our company's policy.” – Avalon Purnell [36:12]

---

Conclusion

This episode deftly mirrors the complexity of the business and tech world—where legal tangles, global strife, health crazes, and controversial figures each stake their claim on our attention. From the future of mega-media mergers and Middle East geopolitics to gray-market health trends and the peculiar resilience of Martin Shkreli’s media career, the program delivers sharp, original reporting seasoned with humor and humanity.

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Quick Reference: Segment Timestamps

• Paramount-Warner Bros. merger: [02:41-07:23]
• Middle East "New Order": [09:56-18:40]
• Peptide & Crypto craze: [21:55-31:51]
• Martin Shkreli returns: [34:24-42:35]

---

Transcript

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[Podcast Host (Carol Massar or Tim Stanweck)]

Bloomberg Audio Studios podcasts radio news this is Bloomberg Businessweek daily reporting from the magazine that helps global leaders stay ahead with insight on the people, companies and trends shaping today's complex economy. Plus global business, finance and tech news as it happens. The Bloomberg businessweek Daily Podcast with Carol Massar and Tim Stanweck on Bloomberg Radio

[Tim Stanweck]

well, certainly top of mind today a federal judge temporarily paused paramount Skydance is $110 billion takeover of Warner Brothers discovery. The judge in Oakland, California ordering the companies to hold off on Consummating the deal for 14 days. Paramount, Warner Brothers hope to close though, Tim, as soon as July 22nd.

[Public.com Legal Disclaimer]

Yeah.

[Carol Massar]

Shares dipped initially. Warner Brothers Discovery shares are still lower, down 3.8%. Paramount, Skydance shares, they were down earlier in the session as much as 2%, but down now.

[Tim Stanweck]

A little bit higher.

[Carol Massar]

A little bit higher right now.

[Tim Stanweck]

Just a tad, yeah. All right, so let's get to it. What do we need to know? Why is this happening now? That's what makes me wonder. Bloomberg News senior editor and entertainment team leader Chris Palmeira, usually on the west coast, in the heart of Hollywood out there in L. A joining us here, as we said in New York City. What, what do we know about this and why is this happening now?

[Chris Palmieri]

Well, just to put a little context here, they were very close to closing this. Justice Department approved the merger. EU is expected to announce something on Wednesday. They're going to have a deal and greenlight it. So. So Paramount was hoping they could actually close this week. And so the attorneys general who've been sort of threatening action, finally it did sue. And so now this is a potential problem because anything past September that Paramount doesn't close, they have to pay Warner Brothers shareholders millions of dollars a day until, until they get it done. If they get it done.

[Carol Massar]

What's the. If they get. Wait, wait. If they get it done. Are we really saying that?

[Chris Palmieri]

Well, I think the market's reaction indicates that something will happen, that some sort of agreement will be reached. I think that might be a face saving move for the attorneys general, certainly for Paramount.

[Carol Massar]

What's the sticking point here?

[Chris Palmieri]

Well, you know, there's a lot of people, particularly in Hollywood, who really object to this. I mean, we're combining two, you know, legendary movie studios, two giant operators of cable TV channels, two news division, CBS and cnn, two giant streaming services. So this is, this, if this isn't antitrust, you know what is? Right? I mean, this is a major consolidation. Now you get into the question of how much market share do they have. And this is one of the things that I think people reacted, were a little surprised that the suit wasn't stronger. They really decided to focus on the movie business. And they couldn't even, really even get a 30% market share for the combined studios. So I think there is a feeling that the case was not as strong as it might have been. And this is kind of like almost a relief for investors. Yeah.

[Tim Stanweck]

So could any chance Netflix come in at this point, Chris, and would this be a deal that would more likely pass regulatory muster?

[Chris Palmieri]

Well, we can go on and on about Netflix. Right now, they're sort of in a lot of trouble. I mean, their stock really began to head south last year when they, when they initially were interested in Warner Brothers. And they haven't really overcome this idea that what were they thinking? You know, so I can't see them coming back at this point.

[IBM Representative]

Yeah.

[Tim Stanweck]

So this deal does get done. I mean, we know they want to do it as soon as July 22. Is that likely to happen or is it just maybe.

[Chris Palmieri]

Definitely not July 22nd. So I think the next is a hearing to determine whether the injunction that's just a temporary one now goes at least through the end of trial. Now, remember, the attorneys general are asking for a trial date next year. So, you know, that's potential trouble for Paramount. And they're going to, they're going to fight every step of this the way they're going to fight the injunction. They're going to, I think they're making Delraham their chief legal officer suggests it could go to the Supreme Court.

[Carol Massar]

But I mean, if it goes to the Supreme Court, is there, I don't know, it's hard to say with, with this Supreme Court, but is there, is there sort of precedent for something like this? I mean, it's a challenge to actually answer that given that we're in a different era than we've ever seen with media right now. And, you know, if you were describing this 10 years ago, I think there would be huge issues. But yeah, it's, it's not like that anymore.

[Chris Palmieri]

And by the way, Megan Delray, who is the antitrust chief from the first Trump admin, who argued that AT&T should not be able to buy Time Warner. And he lost that case. Of course, now he's in favor of Warner Brothers consolidation. But I think, you know, most to your point, the Trump administration is seen as pretty pro merger. We heard the FCC commissioner on our program here recently saying that he was talking about all the deals he's going to, you know, he's, he's got some final say in the, in the Warner Brothers deal as well. But you know, you know, this is,

[Carol Massar]

and he was at the UFC fight on the White House.

[Tim Stanweck]

I know, yeah.

[Chris Palmieri]

All we could go on and on about all the relationships with Batman and the Trump administration for sure.

[Tim Stanweck]

So saving face, maybe even what it's all about, like you said, too. All right, Chris Palmieri, thank you so much. So excited to have you here. Bloomberg News Media and entertainment team lead, Chris Palmieri joining us here in our Bloomberg studio.

[Carol Massar]

Stay with us. More from Bloomberg businessweek Daily Coming up after this

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[Podcast Host (Carol Massar or Tim Stanweck)]

You're listening to the Bloomberg Businessweek Daily Podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5 Eastern. Listen on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app or watch us live on YouTube, as Carol mentioned,

[Carol Massar]

so notes a recent bloo big take that we wanted to share with everyone with more Bloomberg Economics geoeconomics analysts focusing on the Middle East. Dean as Foundier with us from Geneva, Switzerland, Dean is the author of New Order in The Gulf, the rise of the UAE Co author of Triple Axes, Iran's Relations with Russia and China. Shields, a PhD in the war Studies department at King's College in London. As we mentioned, the US conducting a ninth straight day of airstrikes on Iran. Why, Dina, should we be focusing on on the longer array of actions and conflict to tell the story of a changing Middle East?

[Dina Esfandiary]

Because this is a region that has been filled with turmoil for as long as I can remember and beyond that, and the last two, three years have only worsened the instability that the Middle east has seen. As we outline in the piece, after October 7th and the war that Israel led against Gaza, everything began to change. Alliances were reshaped in the Middle east. Partnerships changed, new wars erupted, new violence erupted, and unfortunately, none of that looks like it's going to be resolved anytime soon.

[Tim Stanweck]

Why is it? Just because it's been in conflict, this region, for so long, does the US Attack have some role? Like, why are we here at this moment in time?

[Dina Esfandiary]

Dina, an understandable question, and honestly, I could probably write another PhD on the answer. But in order to shorten it, I think various factors, I think foreign players, including the United States and others like Russia and China, have played a role in it. I think players within the Middle east have done very little to improve their situation. I think within countries in the Middle east, governance has been a real issue, which at time exacerbates both domestic crises and regional crises. Honestly, I could go on economic issues. The fact that many of these countries are exporters of oil, that they're rent dependent countries, none of these factors have helped. And the tensions that have erupted in the last few years, really, they've exacerbated these problems. And again, there is no path right now to resolving any of them.

[Carol Massar]

So it raises the question about the U.S. role in the Middle east right now and, and what exactly the end game is for the United States. And, you know, far be it for me to ask you to get inside the president's head and give us a prediction there, but I think a lot of people question the idea of a clean and quick end to at least the U.S. involvement with Iran. Is that fair to say?

[Dina Esfandiary]

Absolutely. U.S. war goals have been changing since the war with Iran erupted. Initially it was about regime change. Then it turned into degrading the Islamic Republic's capabilities. Now it's become opening a strait that was open before the war broke out. So it's really unclear what President Trump's objectives in this conflict are. But I think for now those objectives have become Very limited. And they are primarily focused on the straits. It needs to be open. It needs to not be under Iranian control. And that is exactly what the Iranians are contesting.

[Carol Massar]

That was how things were before the end of February.

[Dina Esfandiary]

That's right. But they signed an MoU, a ceasefire of sorts, where they promised to continue negotiations to resolve some of the issues that plague their relations, including Iran's nuclear program. But they didn't even get that far because within a few weeks, both sides had a different interpretation of the implementation of the MoU. The Iranians thought that the US was acting in bad faith by not implementing it properly, by, for example, opening up an alternative route in the Strait of Hormuz close to the Omani shore. And the Iranians felt that this was going against the mou. And so they went forward with ensuring that they would be able to establish a clear red line. And that red line was that the Strait of Hormuz belongs to Iran and Iran must control it.

[Tim Stanweck]

Dina Speaking of lines, you guys write in this story, Israel has become another fault line and the relationship between the Gulf states, states shifted from neutrality to hostile, according to Bloomberg Economics. I mean, you know, you talk about alliances with Israel and others, not where is Israel in all of this and how much is. Are they, I don't, you know, their role in kind of creating kind of where we are today.

[Dina Esfandiary]

Well, I would argue three years into a regional war, almost three years into a regional war, Israel is much worse off than it was at the outset. Before October 7th, there was a wave of Arab normalizations occurring with Israel. The UAE and Bahrain had already normalized and there was real talk of Saudi Arabia, the crown jewels of normalization, also establishing ties with Israel. Now a few years later, that is absolutely off the table. Saudi Arabia, even if it wanted to, even if the crown prince wanted to go ahead with normalization with Israel, he wouldn't be able to do it simply because domestically it is so taboo right now. And that really speaks to how the region views Israel. The populations, Arab populations in the Middle east view Israel, but also some of the leadership of the Gulf Arab states who now see Israel as a threat equal to, if not superior to Iran, because it is enabled by the United States in a way that Iran just simply isn't.

[Tim Stanweck]

So what fixes this diplomacy, war, war to the bitter end or nothing? You know, I did in a silly mood or just, I don't know, thinking about, oh my gosh, you know, reading the headlines this morning, a poll on X and I'm like, does it just kind of keep going on for a little bit longer. Does the war end soon or is it the forever war? Like, I don't know.

[Dina Esfandiary]

Honestly, I think right now we are on track towards this becoming the beginning of another forever war. Both sides are being very stubborn in terms of ensuring the respect of their red lines in terms of shaping the negotiations. So they don't want to return to the negotiating table until those red lines have been established and the other side understands them. And neither side seems to want to de escalate. And of course, the only way to end this, the only way to end this really is through diplomacy. More war will not resolve anything. It may destroy infrastructure, it may destroy capabilities, but at the end of the day, it will only give. Give more bitterness, more anger amongst the leadership of the countries that are facing this kind of war and ensure that they rebuild and this all restarts again.

[Tim Stanweck]

And not scientific. I'm looking at my ex poll. It was one day, but I respect everybody who responded. It was US and Iran. Oversoon 13% continues to take longer. 42% forever war 45%. So Dina, they agree with you.

[Carol Massar]

Dina, what happened to the Iranians who in February the President thought would would rise up and would sort of lead a new government or at least show that there was some sort of resistance movement that, that would, would help to make a transition toward a country that at least this, this United States government wants to see?

[Dina Esfandiary]

Well, they've been distracted. They've been distracted by facing incoming bombs and missiles for the better part of the last two, three months. That will ensure that the Iranian population doesn't focus on the shortcomings of their government, but rather on the fact that they are facing war and they are facing a dire economic situation and unemployment and hopelessness. So their attention has been refocused on something else. The other thing that's happened, and this is pretty normal for a wartime situation, is that war has allowed the Islamic Republic's leadership to regain control of the streets under the guise of war. They have re established checkpoints throughout the country. They have re established some control, ensuring that people no longer come out and demonstrate. So expressions of discontent have really been quelled, which means that essentially what this war did was by the government. Time.

[Tim Stanweck]

I'm looking forward to your next PhD paper because I am curious to see where this all goes. It's just pretty amazing and just even also to see shifting US sentiment when it comes to something like Israel. There's a lot of great statistics and research in this piece, Dina. We knew we wanted to talk to you so thank you so much. We know it's later over there in Geneva, but thank you so much. Always always appreciate your time. That of course is Dina Esfand. She is Geo Economics Analyst. She focuses specifically on the Middle East. So highly recommend to you. Check out this story by our team. It was a Bloomberg big take and it is on the bloomberg [e-mail] she of course is with the Bloomberg Economics team joining us from Geneva.

[Carol Massar]

Stay with us. More from Bloomberg Businessweek Daily coming up after this.

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[Podcast Host (Carol Massar or Tim Stanweck)]

You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week daily podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5 Eastern. Listen on Apple CarPlay and and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app or watch us live on YouTube.

[Tim Stanweck]

Let's get to it with Isabel. She's Bloomberg News process reporter. She joins us here in the Bloomberg Interactive Broker Studio. Why can't you buy. First of all, welcome. Great story. Congratulations.

[Isabelle Lee]

Big compliments from you both.

[Tim Stanweck]

Well, we, you know, great stuff. Why can't you buy peptides with your. With your credit card?

[Isabelle Lee]

I think. I mean, obviously, if it's the accredited ones, you can, but then if it's

[Carol Massar]

like, you mean a GLP one coming from like, Eli Lilly.

[Isabelle Lee]

I don't even want to say Lydia legit. But if it's like, you know, those kind of things, you can.

[Carol Massar]

Well, let's say maybe you could say if it's prescribed by a doctor, it goes through the typical channels of.

[Isabelle Lee]

Yes, you can use chemical channels. You can use your.

[Tim Stanweck]

So which peptides are we talking about here?

[Isabelle Lee]

I think it's everything else other than the. If you know it, then you can buy it with a credit card. If you don't, and if you can't pronounce it, and if you can't read it, you probably can't. And I want to make a distinction between gray market and black market.

[Carol Massar]

Yes.

[Isabelle Lee]

Because when I was talking to my editors, they were like, black market. So gray market involves legal sale of authentic branded goods, and black market is like, illegal and prohibited.

[Optum Representative]

What are these?

[Isabelle Lee]

Gray market, gray market.

[Carol Massar]

Okay, but these are. These are unproven and they're of unknown origin in some cases too, right?

[Isabelle Lee]

Yes, but I guess they're not yet explicitly banned.

[Carol Massar]

But in some cases, like, okay, you talk to this guy Zach. He's 49 years old. He wants to use a peptide that he's told is an experimental weight loss drug. So essentially, Eli Lilly is working on this thing.

[Isabelle Lee]

I think so.

[Carol Massar]

But he says, like, I can get it already if I buy it from this other.

[Isabelle Lee]

Yes, and he can get it cheaper. I mean, the cost was $240 for roughly a year supply, compared with $300 a month for something like if you buy it from a US reseller. So cost is a big thing also. That's why people buy from TEMU and not Amazon. I mean, but is it safe?

[Carol Massar]

Do you want your TEMU peptides?

[Tim Stanweck]

Wait, wait, but listen, I started safe.

[Isabelle Lee]

I mean, that is the question.

[Tim Stanweck]

I started to tell Tim that there were a few people I knew who do you Remember Latisse? Like the eyelash stuff?

[Isabelle Lee]

Yes.

[Tim Stanweck]

Super expensive. Worked. But there was one you could buy online for like a fraction of the cost that was said to be the same. Same stuff made in an emerging economy that will remain nameless. India. And you know you could do that.

[Carol Massar]

I get the.

[Tim Stanweck]

But you don't you.

[Amazon Health AI Advertiser]

But when you.

[Carol Massar]

I get the knockoff toothbrush heads that are like the Amazonbasics.

[Isabelle Lee]

Oh, really? Oh, maybe I should.

[Carol Massar]

My electric toothbrush, because they're like a tenth of the price.

[Tim Stanweck]

So what do you say?

[Carol Massar]

I'm not injecting that.

[Tim Stanweck]

No, this you are putting in your eye.

[Isabelle Lee]

It could go to your eyeball.

[Avalon Purnell]

Exactly.

[Isabelle Lee]

No, no.

[Tim Stanweck]

So it was a risk.

[Carol Massar]

Okay. But I'm not doing that.

[Tim Stanweck]

So. So how many people are doing this thing?

[Isabelle Lee]

I mean, so it's hard to tell. So we had to look for companies who were tracking it. So chainalysis, for example, they tracked this and they looked at. On chain.

[Carol Massar]

You're talking specific about the crypto side,

[Isabelle Lee]

but the crypto side, people are using

[Carol Massar]

the bitcoin to buy them.

[Isabelle Lee]

Bitcoin to buy peptides from Chinese vendors. They've seen a 700% year over year increase, which is a lot because I feel like now everyone talks about peptides. Right. Like, podcaster Jennifer Aniston said in 2023 that she was using peptides, and that was three years ago. So. And we also quoted another one, TRM Labs.

[Tim Stanweck]

Wait, so GLP1 is a peptide? It is, but these are other types of peptides. What's the difference?

[Isabelle Lee]

You really wouldn't say, I'm taking peptide if you're taking GLP1.

[Podcast Host (Carol Massar or Tim Stanweck)]

You wouldn't.

[Isabelle Lee]

You wouldn't. Okay, you're taking WeGovy, you're taking OzEmpic. Technically they're peptides, but you wouldn't say, I'm taking.

[Tim Stanweck]

But these drugs do the same thing or do differently.

[Carol Massar]

Well, you can get peptides that do weight loss, but you can also get peptides that are supposed to improve muscle mass, that are supposed to improve sleeping, that are pretty and.

[Tim Stanweck]

Okay.

[Isabelle Lee]

Yeah.

[Tim Stanweck]

Okay, sign me up. I mean, I'm just kidding. I'm being facetious. So, okay, so. But it's happening.

[Isabelle Lee]

It's happening. And then the interest is just. So. So this is two stories. First, there's a peptide craze, and we went to an event and it's peptide 101. It went on for one hour, and it was really the basics of peptides. And I actually felt so impressed that people were there and I was like, oh. So the Brain rot that so many people are alluding to isn't happening because these are people who actively paid and attended to go and learn about something. And I have respect for that. And the whole talk was just about peptide. Nothing in relation to crypto. The crypto only comes in because a lot of these peptides are sold in the grave market.

[Vital Proteins Advertiser]

Right.

[Isabelle Lee]

Because they're maybe not the. I don't even want to say legitimate. What word did we use earlier? They're not the prescribed, or I would say traditional channels.

[Carol Massar]

Yeah.

[Isabelle Lee]

So you can buy them in the gray market, and if you're in the gray market, you don't want to be traced. How do you pay? I mean, if it's like in another country, you can't really pay in cash.

[Tim Stanweck]

Right.

[Isabelle Lee]

That's where crypto comes in.

[Carol Massar]

You got this great photo in your piece about that shows Julius Ritter injecting himself at this peptide party. Who is Julia? Julius Ritter.

[Isabelle Lee]

This was a shocker. I mean, he. He is a 20 something year old. He is the president of California Peptide Club. And he said this himself, just like everyone in California. He's an AI startup founder, a longevity founder. And then in his introduction, he said. Am I permitted to say this, Tim?

[Carol Massar]

Yeah. He said if it's in the story, you can say it.

[Tim Stanweck]

He said he wanted me to say

[Isabelle Lee]

this and I'm not gonna do it. I guess I'm saying I'm gonna save you, Carol. He said he's a sperm racer.

[Carol Massar]

What is that?

[Isabelle Lee]

Honestly, it is what it sounds like. It's an.

[Optum Representative]

I don't.

[Isabelle Lee]

I don't know if it's an up and coming thing, but it recently became a thing.

[Carol Massar]

Okay.

[Isabelle Lee]

That boys, men.

[Carol Massar]

It is what it sounds like.

[Isabelle Lee]

They've raised their sperm. And honestly, I mean, I think they

[Tim Stanweck]

take it as a sign of account, essentially.

[Carol Massar]

Oh, I thought it was.

[Isabelle Lee]

No, it's the fast, fastest one. The speed of it. Carol. New York Times had an article about it, which is why I felt like it's a racist. Look, mainstream media, right?

[Vital Proteins Advertiser]

Yes.

[Isabelle Lee]

And people bet on it and. Exactly.

[Tim Stanweck]

Okay.

[Isabelle Lee]

If they could talk, Carol, that's how they would sound.

[Avalon Purnell]

So.

[Carol Massar]

So I, I will, I will push us more. And this is a part of your story, so it's fair.

[Tim Stanweck]

You wanted me to go there because you knew I would laugh. No, but, but no, listen, to be

[Isabelle Lee]

fair, he was very informed and he was really talking about the risk and the benefits. And again, someone was asking, what are the risks? And then he said, and I'm paraphrasing, but no one has died from it based on his knowledge. So for him, the downside is much

[Tim Stanweck]

less wellness phrase and wanting to be a better version of yourself, I guess.

[Carol Massar]

Yeah, it does. It has. The desire is there, but maybe the method of doing that is not necessarily.

[Isabelle Lee]

Yes. If you tell me there's something that will make me prettier, look younger, stronger, give me more muscles, I'm gonna be like, yes, give that to me. And that's everything peptide promises.

[Carol Massar]

And that's what people are doing. They're ordering it. It comes from unknown labs in China and they're injecting them.

[Tim Stanweck]

We're regulators.

[Isabelle Lee]

I mean, I guess not in the gray market and maybe not in crypto. And Tim, you host a crypto show and this is like one of the most enduring cases of crypto. Right. Like, that's why it can't seem to shake off their bad reputation.

[Carol Massar]

Because in this, the whole point of

[Tim Stanweck]

crypto, though, because that's the reality of it.

[Isabelle Lee]

Yeah.

[Tim Stanweck]

Forgive me, but everything. I still, I still don't go to the grocery store and use bitcoin. I don't go on vacation and use bitcoin. I don't get my salary in bitcoin. So I don't pay health care in bitcoin. So I just think, you know, it's the reality, right, of bitcoin increasingly, or the reality that's used in kind of, you know, illegal transactions.

[Isabelle Lee]

But this is what they always say, right? Bitcoin is not anonymous. It's pseudomous. Right? Is that, is that the word?

[Carol Massar]

Well, it's. It can be tracked.

[Isabelle Lee]

Yes, it can be tracked. You're not really anonymous.

[Tim Stanweck]

Right.

[Isabelle Lee]

So I think you set your own risk off. But I guess again, it's a gray market, so.

[Carol Massar]

So is this whole thing a boon for the companies like Coinbase, for example? Because this guy who you spoke to, Zach, he was really skeptical about crypto. And then he was like, you know what? I want these peptides. So I'm going to. I'm going to go in, I'm going to create a Coinbase account. I'm going to convert some USD to bitcoin. I'm going to send it to this lab and I'm going to get it

[Isabelle Lee]

possibly for now at the margins, it depends on how much volume they will see. But then this person we talked to, he never owned bitcoin and he bought bitcoin so he could buy a pack,

[Amazon Health AI Advertiser]

so he could do it.

[Isabelle Lee]

And now he said he reached his goal weight, so maybe he won't anymore. But then the point is it's Attracting new users, whether they will be recurring. So again, it depends on the volume and all that, but it's attracting new users. I mean, it's easy. And that's a premise of Coinbase.

[Podcast Host (Carol Massar or Tim Stanweck)]

Right.

[Isabelle Lee]

They want to make owning crypto and others easy. So you just set up an account, you put your kyc, and then you buy Bitcoin, you order peptide, you wait, and then bam, it's in your doorstep. Bad.

[Tim Stanweck]

Wonder if things like this, though, show people kind of how to transact with

[Carol Massar]

crypto and then they start doing it for other things maybe.

[Tim Stanweck]

Yeah, right. Like you're like, okay, that made sense to me.

[Carol Massar]

I don't know. It's kind of easy to just take your phone out and put it on the payment terminal when you go buy something and your credit card gets charged.

[Tim Stanweck]

I know, Yeah, I agree. I don't disagree with you on that, but I don't know. But if it's something that isn't totally.

[Isabelle Lee]

That is true.

[Podcast Host (Carol Massar or Tim Stanweck)]

Yeah.

[Isabelle Lee]

I mean, it's. It's a good initiation, so to speak, and then until you had a taste of it. But back to this event, we talked to like the people there and they were all new to Peptide, and I was like, wow. I mean, it kind of has been around for a while, but I guess the mainstream craze, I mean, I've only recently heard of Peptide in earnest this year. Even if I've been talking about, I mean, in our reporting, we go V and all that, but this kind of Peptide to make you pretty and all that, I've only heard recently. And a lot of the people are like, yeah, I'm learning. They paid to go attend the event.

[Carol Massar]

Yeah.

[Tim Stanweck]

This is in New York City.

[Isabelle Lee]

Yes. And Pub Key, which is a crypto themed bar.

[Carol Massar]

One of the. One of the podcasts that I listen to, that's like a not news podcast. One of the hosts had this idea that because so many people are injecting themselves with drugs that come from needles for like peptides and weight loss and stuff, there's like a market for a nice, pretty sort of needle collection container in your own home that you'd have.

[Isabelle Lee]

I. I see.

[Carol Massar]

That's the world we live in.

[Tim Stanweck]

I get it.

[Isabelle Lee]

Yeah. Because you should really dispose of those needles. Responsive.

[Carol Massar]

Yeah, of course.

[Isabelle Lee]

Very responsibly. Maybe that could be a business for us, Tim.

[Carol Massar]

I'm not. I'm staying completely away from this. I'll stick to, as Jay Powell used to say, I'll stick to my knitting.

[Isabelle Lee]

Fine. Carol and me, we can start the business.

[Optum Representative]

Okay.

[Public.com Advertiser]

On it.

[Tim Stanweck]

On it on. Isabelle Lee Great story. Bloomberg News Cross Asset Reporter. Check it out. It's on the Bloomberg.

[Carol Massar]

Stay with us. More from Bloomberg Businessweek Daily coming up after this.

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[Podcast Host (Carol Massar or Tim Stanweck)]

You're listening to the Bloomberg Businessweek Daily podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5 Eastern. Listen on Apple Car Play and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app or watch us live on YouTube.

[Carol Massar]

He's been hosting live streams on YouTube nearly every day. He offers off the cuff analysis on scores of companies one after the next he's asserted that only, quote, fools believe stocks go up over time and shorted space X. He's discussed the intricacies of biotech drug development while likening himself to Pablo Picasso. He's ridiculed, ridiculed his viewers too. He tells one to learn some English and then he says, mother effort, expletive.

[Tim Stanweck]

They're finer.

[Carol Massar]

Sure. We're talking about Martin Shkreli, the so called pharma bro who's been called, quote, the most hated man in America.

[Tim Stanweck]

I want to get into this story. I do want to mention though, a headline that SpaceX deposed their second quarter results on August 4th. I thought that was kind of interesting and kind of maybe perhaps, I don't know, maybe relevant. I don't know. Tell us.

[Carol Massar]

Thank you. I'll mark the calendar.

[Tim Stanweck]

Hey, we are marking the calendar on that one. Listen, this is so fascinating. Remind everybody because we were marveling that like 10 years ago, it was nonstop and talking about this guy, figuring out how to pronounce his name and then talking about him nonstop. But remind the world in case they missed who this dude is.

[Avalon Purnell]

So Martin Shkreli, for those who aren't familiar, really kind of rose to prominence in 2015 and that's after he decided to raise the price of an anti, anti parasitic drug that is life saving, to be clear, by 5,000%. And after that, that kind of created a host of various problems and probes also from authorities and that kind of allowed him to rise to prominence, to say the least. We got to see him throughout the trial, spitballing, tweeting, despite pleading the fifth. There was just a lot of different things that happen and now he's definitely back in the spotlight.

[Carol Massar]

We're speaking with Avalon Purnell, Bloomberg news equities reporter. She writes this great story about Martin Shkreli being back and prime to fight to the bitter end. So how was your conversation with him for this story?

[Avalon Purnell]

Well, I can't say that we necessarily had a conversation.

[Carol Massar]

Why not?

[Avalon Purnell]

We did have an email exchange. That being said, well, part of the reason why we did not get to have a conversation is that he did ask to be paid. And as you both know, that is against our company's policy. So we were not able to have a conversation, but definitely included that side bit into my.

[Carol Massar]

I should note this is, you know what? Nobody pays. No, no news organization sort of like worth its salt or whatever, right. Would actually pay a source to have a conversation. So it's not just like, you know, it's just standard. Let me rephrase this is standard policy. So yeah, it should not come as a surprise to him, somebody who has been in the spotlight for many years.

[Tim Stanweck]

No, exactly. I mean, you know, we were also kind of just sharing like his story is just an interesting one, like every twist and turn. And here we are in another chapter that's also interesting but.

[Avalon Purnell]

Right.

[Tim Stanweck]

Like you were reminding us on the call about like all the stuff of his background.

[Chris Palmieri]

Yeah.

[Carol Massar]

Evelyn, you get into it. Born in Brooklyn, the son of immigrants, did really well in high school. How did he find himself on, you know, on the wrong side of the law a decade ago?

[Avalon Purnell]

Well, I mean even walking before that, I mean he interned under the hedge fund that Jim Cramer previously was over. And at that point he also really found his first love, which is shorting stocks. He had a very well timed bearish bet on Regeneron that did end up getting him probed. Obviously everything ended up coming out to be fine for that one. But then he decided to open up his own hedge funds. Those kind of blew up and we got to see a lot of legal troubles come and ensue after that situation. But definitely was very early on interested in finance and also in pharmaceuticals.

[Tim Stanweck]

Yeah, he's quite a character.

[Vital Proteins Advertiser]

Right.

[Tim Stanweck]

And I really do feel like he's got a certain style.

[Avalon Purnell]

Right.

[Tim Stanweck]

When it comes to how he dresses things and how he kind of justifies what he has done. So he's back. How is he back?

[Avalon Purnell]

Well, he has a lot of various things in his toolkit to say the least. Part of it is the live streams which can go from as long as like nine hours to as short as like two hours which was today. It really just kind of depends. But he speaks on everything. Everything from like today. He spoke about relationship advice previously. He will also talk about like finance also everything from like oh, you should be long this stock, maybe potentially these companies could be a short. It really just kind of depends on his mood and all throughout it all he's has to be advertising his Goodell platform as well.

[Carol Massar]

Yeah, so you mentioned it. So talk about what that is. It's a competitor to the Bloomberg. What he says is the Bloomberg terminal.

[Avalon Purnell]

One thing that he likes to say that it kind of sets self differently from the Bloomberg terminal is that it does focus more, more on private companies as opposed to only like equities which I mean we also obviously cover that as well. But it's just a slightly different target audience.

[Carol Massar]

We should know that Bloomberg LP is the. Which offers the terminal as part of its suite of financial products, is the parent company of Bloomberg News, including Bloomberg Radio and Bloomberg Media. Avalon, you and Carol, you said this like he's back, but I would argue after reading this story he wouldn't be completely back until he unless he gets a pardon from the President.

[Avalon Purnell]

That is very true. So part of what happened after the case, he was banned from the pharmaceutical industry outright lifetime ban. And he's also barred from certain roles within the securities industry as well. And so he's definitely looking out for a pardon because that would allow him to rejoin the C suite. He's actually currently consulting and advising a photo tonics company that was previously a pharmaceutical company. And so if he does receive a pardon, then potentially he could actually re enter the C suite and pursue various things which he has tweeted about in the past as well.

[Tim Stanweck]

Remind us his track record. Is it good? It's like kind of random, right?

[Avalon Purnell]

It's a bit mixed, but at least when it comes to pharmaceuticals, he tends to be pretty good. I mean, we have one that he was fairly wrong on, like Capricorn. But a lot of his fans also tweeted at me as well about how Cassava was one where he did seem to be right. That was previously Celus Life Sciences. And so it just kind of depends on the company. But at least for some of these tech names that he's been diving into lately, I mean some of them have actually gone down like SpaceX or an Intel. It just kind of depends on the day.

[Tim Stanweck]

What kind of response have you gotten? I'm just curious for people weighing in because I do feel like he either has mega supporters or people who are pretty critical.

[Avalon Purnell]

Yes, it's definitely been, as you'd expect, definitely a mixed bag as well. Some people who are just like, oh my gosh, I can't believe. What do you mean he's back? He's always been there for me and when I spoke to some of his fans, they've also said that they've been looking out for him. Even throughout his prison stint the past decade. They've been very, very interested in everything that the pharma bro has been doing and others are more so, like, why are we focusing on him? What's going on?

[Carol Massar]

He's gonna be. He's been known to have back and forth with reporters online. I'm just wondering if you've heard from him after this story came out.

[Avalon Purnell]

Well, he did have one tweet out about his discord. Outside of that, generally, nothing. I will also say, like on one of his live streams he did mention us as well. And so we'll see.

[Carol Massar]

Well, it's a great piece and it was just fascinating to sort of blast from the past, but also to sort of understand what he's doing right now and how he has continued to have this following even after being out of the spotlight for a few years in prison.

[Tim Stanweck]

Is the White House even considering a pardon?

[Avalon Purnell]

I mean, he has submitted an application, so in theory he's going through the process. I can't speak on that specifically as to what that will look like.

[Carol Massar]

Well, what politically is he doing right now? What has he done with Republicans during the 2024 election? You get into that a little bit?

[Avalon Purnell]

Yeah, we definitely get into that slightly in terms of how he has been very publicly within the Twitter sphere, like tweeting out against certain Democratic senators and other representatives. But aside from that, he's just been asking his followers to please put my name up. Trying to say, generally speaking, okay, you can't pay for a pardon, but if you have any sort of ins or if you're in the know, then please help me out.

[Tim Stanweck]

So 500,000 plus ex followers. And then I guess his other stream, was it like night 90,000 or something?

[Avalon Purnell]

Yes, but he has a web of YouTube. There's Martin Shakali, Mr. Shkhelli, Shkhelli Pill, Shockelli Planet. So he also has a lot of followers across the YouTube sphere as well.

[Carol Massar]

Avalon Purnell, Bloomberg News Equities Reporter here in our Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio. Check out her story. If you missed it, it's on the

[Tim Stanweck]

Bloomberg Post was nine hours and at

[Carol Massar]

Bloomberg,

[Podcast Host (Carol Massar or Tim Stanweck)]

this is the Bloomberg businessweek Day Daily podcast, available on Apple, Spotify and anywhere else you get. Your podcasts listen live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5pm Eastern on Bloomberg.com, the iHeartRadio app, TuneIn and the Bloomberg Business App. You can also watch us live Every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg Terminal.

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[Kalpen (Kal Penn)]

Hey everyone, it's Kalpen. I'm inviting you to join the best sounding book club you've ever heard with my podcast, The Audible and iHeart Audio Book Club. Every episode I nerd out with amazing guests and dive into the best new audiobooks available on Audible. It's the book club for your ears. Listen to Earsay the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.