SpaceX Said to Pursue 2026 IPO Raising Far Above $30 Billion

Summary

Bloomberg Businessweek Podcast Summary

Episode: SpaceX Said to Pursue 2026 IPO Raising Far Above $30 Billion
Date: December 9, 2025
Hosts: Carol Massar, Tim Stenovec
Featured Guests: Eric Johnson (Bloomberg News: Space, Aviation & Defense), David Schassler (Vaneck), Joyce Wong (American Century Investments), Sally Bakewell (Bloomberg Finance Team Lead)

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Episode Overview

This episode explores three major business stories shaping the investing, tech, and media landscape:

1. SpaceX’s Potential 2026 IPO: Insights from Eric Johnson on SpaceX’s plans for an IPO that could surpass $30 billion, the largest ever.
2. Investment Strategies Amid Disruption: David Schassler discusses AI, asset allocation, and market fundamentals heading into 2026.
3. Media Mega-Deal Moves: Sally Bakewell dissects a complex, foreign-backed bid for Warner Brothers Discovery, highlighting unusual deal structures and geopolitical ties.

The hosts engage deeply with key sources, probing risks, strategy shifts, macroeconomic trends, and the personalities behind the news.

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1. SpaceX’s Potential Record-Breaking IPO

Breaking News and Deal Dynamics

[02:15] Carol Massar introduces the top story: SpaceX is preparing for a 2026 IPO, targeting a raise "far above" $30 billion, likely eclipsing the record set by Saudi Aramco.

• Eric Johnson explains that SpaceX and its advisers are progressing toward a public listing as early as mid-to-late 2026, with timing subject to change.
• Unlike previous speculation, the IPO would not just spin off Starlink but would encompass the entire company.

  “If they do [launch an IPO], it would eclipse the 2019 record set by Saudi Aramco, raising, you know, more than far above, significantly more than... $30 billion.”
  (Eric Johnson, 02:51)

Starlink’s Role and Growth

[03:17] The hosts discuss the evolution of Starlink from a potential spinoff to a core part of SpaceX’s value.

• Johnson notes Starlink’s transformation: now with millions of subscribers, it operates the largest low-Earth orbit satellite network.
• The ongoing technical improvements in Starlink’s internet service are making it both more ubiquitous and competitive, especially in previously underserved areas.

  “You see the dish move... It's pretty cool.” (Host/Co-host, 03:48)

• Real-world impact: Airlines are eager for Starlink service due to spotty in-flight connections.

  “I said to him [Ben Minicucci, Alaska Airlines CEO]... What were you thinking? He goes, I can't wait for Starlink.”
  (Eric Johnson, 05:57)

Market Competition and Valuation

[06:20] The team reviews SpaceX’s competition (Rocket Lab, Firefly) but underscores SpaceX’s clear dominance.

[07:13] Valuation could exceed current estimates; bank interest is expected to be frenzied given the deal’s magnitude.

“It could be even more. There’s got to be... It’s a long process. It’s worth mentioning they’re in the beginning stages of this... Absolutely, it could be significantly higher.”
(Eric Johnson, 07:20)

Memorable Moments / Quotes

• [04:46] On Musk: “So many people believe in Musk... but many people wouldn't want to bet against him.”
• [07:36] On advisor interest: “I think it's safe to say the banks are going to be clamoring for this... we haven’t seen one this size in a long time.”

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2. Investing Amid Rapid Innovation & AI

Market Themes

[11:02] David Schassler outlines the collision of three trends:

• Disruptive innovation (AI, robotics)

• Infrastructure and real asset boom

• Monetary debasement and greater liquidity

  “You've got three basically mega themes crashing together at the same time.”
  (David Schassler, 11:19)

AI’s Economic Impact

• AI’s progress unfolds in phases: first the infrastructure “build,” then investor scrutiny over returns, then broad societal adaptation.
• [13:54] Concern about job displacement: “...Anybody doing repetitive tasks where they're putting their head down and they're pushing computer keys, be concerned. Think about expanding your skill set.” (David Schassler, 14:18)
• Despite volatility, Schassler remains bullish: “AI is going to over-deliver... it's not under-hyped long term.”

Big Tech & Asset Preferences

• The “Magnificent 7” tech stocks—recent volatility means Schassler calls them a “hold,” but he would “buy into dips.”
• [16:11] On asset classes: “Bitcoin’s a top performer by the end of the year... followed by gold. Gold to hit $5,000 we think sometime in 2026.”

Notable Quotes

• [14:18] “The next few years are going to be particularly bizarre and uncomfortable for many because where AI can replace, it's already replacing.”
• [16:27] “Bitcoin's a top performer by the end of the year... followed by gold.”

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3. Macro Outlook: The Fed, Inflation, and Asset Flows

Federal Reserve & Rate Cuts

[19:47] Joyce Wong forecasts a cautious Fed, expecting only one additional cut in 2026 after the December move. Most market participants are converging on a slower pace of easing due to sticky inflation.

• [21:08] "There have been more and more people joining our camp and saying that there's going to be fewer cuts next year than originally thought..."
• Ongoing labor market softness is the primary risk the Fed is considering.

Inflation Risks

• Inflation continues to reside above target, driven by persistent increases in services like insurance and healthcare.

  [24:03] “People always ask me, what is the biggest risk to markets? And I always say inflation... we've made a lot of the progress on inflation that we're likely to see.”

Asset Allocation & Flow Trends

• Strong investor preference for fixed income, particularly high-yield and municipal bonds, as attractive rates persist before Fed cuts erode yields (25:47–26:29).
• Investors are moving into small caps and select growth sectors, while still reassessing overvalued equities; continued inflows into technology names, but also growing appetite for “contrarian trades” post-Fed easing.

  [27:51] "We are starting to see some focus in our strategies that have that more growth orientation... and we're starting to see some flows coming into the contrarian trade."

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4. Media Mega-Deal: Paramount, Warner Bros Discovery, and Global Capital

Takeover Story

[31:39] Sally Bakewell breaks down the details of a $54 billion bid for Warner Brothers Discovery, primarily orchestrated by Skydance and Paramount and backed by a novel mix of U.S. tech, Middle Eastern sovereign wealth, and political connections.

• Financing includes a $54B bridge loan from Bank of America, Citi, and Apollo (split equally), plus $40.7B in equity—guaranteed by Oracle’s Larry Ellison and RedBird Capital.

• Major Gulf and Saudi funds are providing much of the equity but will forgo governance rights in the deal to placate U.S. regulatory sensitivity over foreign control of media assets.

  “Providing the actual equity are this host of names from the Gulf region, including Saudi Arabia's public investment fund, the Qatar Investment Authority, and an Abu Dhabi... company called limad, as well as Jared Kushner's Affinity partners.”
  (Sally Bakewell, 32:23)

• The deal is complex, both in terms of multi-jurisdiction financing and due to its intersection with news media (e.g., CNN ownership implications), heightening political and regulatory scrutiny.

Notable Quotes

• [34:31] “There is this sensitivity around the fact that this is a major news organization at play, that their money could be money coming in from abroad.” (Joyce Wong)
• [35:36] “The 54 billion bridge loan is going to be guaranteed by Paramount's assets. Now that's apparently quite weird in the market for a loan like this.” (Sally Bakewell, on deal structure)

Deal Status & Next Moves

• The offer is not necessarily final; Paramount has 10 business days to respond. More competitive bids might follow.
• Jared Kushner is reported to have a central deal-brokering role, repeating his involvement in past Gulf-US investments.

Closing Thoughts

• The episode closes on the evolving and suspenseful nature of both the media deal and investing trends into 2026.

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Key Segments & Timestamps

• SpaceX IPO Scoop & Analysis: [02:15–07:54]
• AI & Asset Allocation with David Schassler: [11:02–16:50]
• Macro, Fed, and Flows with Joyce Wong: [19:44–28:47]
• Media Mega-Deal / Warner-Paramount: [31:39–39:00]

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Most Memorable Quotes

1. On SpaceX’s Ambition:
   “If they do [an IPO], it would eclipse the 2019 record set by Saudi Aramco...” — Eric Johnson [02:51]

2. On AI’s Disruptive Impact:
   “Where AI can replace, it's already replacing. So you see that in new college graduates, anybody doing repetitive tasks... be concerned. Think about expanding your skill set.” — David Schassler [14:18]

3. On Foreign Capital & Media:
   “Providing the actual equity are this host of names from the Gulf region... as well as Jared Kushner's Affinity partners.” — Sally Bakewell [32:23]

4. On Persistent Inflation:
   “People always ask me, what is the biggest risk to markets? And I always say inflation...” — Joyce Wong [24:03]

---

Summary

This episode stands out for its exclusive details on record-breaking IPO plans from SpaceX, the challenges and opportunities of investor strategies as AI takes hold in the global economy, and a revealing look at the globalization and politicization of media ownership. The Bloomberg team leverages direct insights from newsbreakers and practitioners to deliver a compelling, accessible narrative for business leaders and investors.

Transcript

[Carol Massar]

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This is Bloomberg Businessweek daily reporting from the magazine that helps global leaders stay ahead with insight on the people, economies and trends shaping today's complex economy. Plus global business, finance and tech news as it happens. The Bloomberg businessweek Daily Podcast with Carol Massar and Tim Stanweck on Bloomberg Radio.

[Carol Massar]

Well, now to our most read story on the Bloomberg Terminal. In the last hour, SpaceX moving ahead with plans for an IPO that would seek to raise Significantly more than $30 billion, people familiar with the matter said in a transaction that would make it the biggest listing of all time. That Bloomberg exclusive by Ed Ludlow and Erik Johnson Eric Johnson is with us. He's Bloomberg News Team Leader for Space, Aviation and Defense. He's also Global Business of Space Editor. He joins us here in the Bloomberg Interactive Brokers studio, usually based in Seattle. We're lucky that you're here today in New York, congratulations on this scoop. What did you and Ed find?

[Eric Johnson]

Well, basically, the SpaceX management and advisors are, are moving forward with plans for, for an IPO targeting next year. Mid to late next year. Timing could slip to 2027, of course, as they go forward with these plans, but if they do, it would eclipse the 2019 record set by Saudi Aramco, raising, you know, more than far above, significantly more than, according to some of the people, the $30 billion.

[Carol Massar]

You know, in previous years, Eric, we've talked about the idea of SpaceX potentially spinning off Starlink. Carol's been a longtime Starlink subscriber, fair to say, right? Yeah, you've known. It's really cool. I just experienced it for the first time recently.

[Eric Johnson]

Where do you use it, by the way?

[Podcast Advertiser/Host]

On a boat.

[Eric Johnson]

Oh, very nice.

[Podcast Advertiser/Host]

And how does it work?

[Eric Johnson]

Is it good?

[Co-host/Interviewer]

It's fabulous. And what's interesting, because you go to a lot of marinas and the WI fi is not usually very, very good. And even though they try to create systems and so on, so forth, it's incredible.

[Carol Massar]

But you can stream us on YouTube on Starlink.

[Eric Johnson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

And it's just fascinating. You see the dish move, as you know, it's just, it's pretty cool. So is this great?

[Carol Massar]

Is the iteration of Space X's IPO that you and Ed write about? Does that. Excuse me. Yeah. Does that include Starlink?

[Eric Johnson]

This is for the entire company.

[Carol Massar]

Is there not talk about spinning it off anymore?

[Eric Johnson]

As you pointed out, over the years SpaceX executives have talked about an IPO and the idea was, is that, you know, as they, as they become cash flow positive, they could spin off Starlink as its own ipo. It's more of a consumer tech play. But, but the plans have changed. And if you, if you look at the growth of Space X and you look at not just becoming the most prolific launch, rocket launch company on Earth, but now they've got plans for their gigantic starship, which is, you know, they're developing to take humans back to the moon at some point. And eventually, if you believe Musk, Mars will have a Mars colony at some point. But you think about that.

I shouldn't have laughed. And then you think about Starlink, which, which you brought up. I mean, now they've got millions of subscribers, they're operating the largest satellite network in low Earth orbit. So all of these factors are coming together to portray a company from a position of strength and growth. And look, Musk. So many people believe in Musk. He's got plenty of detractors, plenty of naysayers, but many people wouldn't want to bet against him. And you're seeing some of that, that momentum.

[Podcast Advertiser/Host]

Well, when I think about Starling too.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

I think, wait, is this going to replace like our Internet providers eventually for our home? Like, I mean, how far can this go? And is that part of the plan?

[Eric Johnson]

That's the key question if you think about capacity. So for a while, Starlink wasn't good at operating in areas where there's fiber optic cable, for instance. They can't compete with that. It takes longer for data to move through space than cable.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Eric Johnson]

But as they got more and more satellites, they're getting better and better. So you're starting to see their service improve. And one quick funny story, if you'll bear with me, is I was on an Alaska Airlines flight here and Ben Minicucci, the CEO of Alaska happened to be on the plane.

[Carol Massar]

Nice.

[Eric Johnson]

And the Internet was going in and out.

[Carol Massar]

Of course it was.

[Eric Johnson]

And he comes rushing up the aisle and grabs one of the flight attendants and says, you know, you reset it. And he's having this conversation. And then we happen to have Bloomberg and Ed board with him the next day at a conference. So I said to him, I relayed this and I was like, listen, you know, what was your, what were you thinking at this going on? He goes, I can't wait for Starlink. And so they're one of their customers. So airlines are starting to bet on this.

[Carol Massar]

Yeah, I mean, I've told this story ten times already today.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

You've talked about that.

[Carol Massar]

I took my first United flight with it last weekend and it was, it was totally game changing and United is going to have it by the end of this year on all their small two cabin like regional jets, so the smaller ones. But it was, it was completely game changing. Eric, before we let you go, the other companies that compete in the space.

Not in the, not in the delivering Internet from space, but in the actual rocket launching, like A Rocket Lab USA, for example. How are they doing right now against SpaceX?

[Eric Johnson]

Our story sent their shares higher after the news of the IPO plans came out. But Rocket Lab is, is a formidable challenger. They're doing really well. There's companies like Firefly, there's, there's a host of companies around the world that are trying to challenge Musk and try to rise up against Space X. But right now they're the dominant player.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

All right, can I just say, though, I mean, 30 billion, one and a half trillion dollar, we're talking about a valuation, it could be even more, couldn't it?

[Eric Johnson]

I mean, very good point. It could be even more. There's got to be. It's a long process. It's worth mentioning. They're in the beginning stages of this. And so you've got to do a roadshow. You've got to get the banks globally. You've got to get the banks involved. And you know, Absolutely. It could be significantly higher.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

I think it's safe to say the banks are going to be clamoring for this. Right. I mean, we haven't seen one of this size in a long time. All right, all right. You know, the understatement of the banks.

[Carol Massar]

The lawyers, the advisors. Yeah, we're going to see the piece.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

We'll see the names associated Congratulations. A Bloomberg scoop. Really well done. And to Ed Ludlow, to both of you guys, killer.

[Carol Massar]

Eric Johnson, Bloomberg News Team leader for space, Aviation and Defense. He's also the Global Business of Space Editor. Sign up for that newsletter. You can do [e-mail] joining us here in the Bloomberg Interactive Broker Studio. Stay with us. More from Bloomberg businessweek Daily Coming up after this.

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[Co-host/Interviewer]

We're going to now talk about the trade in multi assets man to the.

[Carol Massar]

Head of Multi Asset Solutions at Vaneck Funds, David Schassler joins us. Vaneck has approximately $162 billion in assets under management. David joins us right here in New York City. The Fed decision, the commentary in your view, what's going to affect the financial market trade the most?

[David Schassler]

We are thematic investors. So I'm going to talk big picture and then we kind of narrow it down. So you've got three things happen, right? So think about it this way. You've got three basically mega themes crashing together at the same time. Right. First one is clearly disruptive innovation. Yes. We're talking about AI, robotics, everything that. Right. But in addition, you've got old world assets, building new world. Right. None of that happens without infrastructure development. Raw assets, real assets. We're in a stealth bull market. Real assets. And then third, we're in the debasement error, you know, and that's going to lead to more liquidity. Now we're talking about, I know you guys are talking for this about rate cuts, another 25 basis points, all moving towards validating the thesis of the debasement error where liquidity is going to get easier out of necessity. So that's, that's where we think we're going and it completely changes the landscape from national case perspective.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Okay, so what are you, you know, I just talked to our team and asked them, Michael McKenzie, Stuart Paul, who watch the US economy. They watch the rates market kind of what they are queuing up for. When it comes to Jay Powell tomorrow they're going to watch what he says about the US labor market. What is top of mind for you in terms of what could indeed impact the investment environment over the next six to 12 months? Or is it too early to even think about that considering Jay Powell is likely to leave the Fed next year when his term is up and we get some new individuals on the US central bank?

[David Schassler]

Yeah, so listen, Jay Powell, the attack of the central bank, their independence, him getting replaced, all all that's happening, right? Who's he going to get replaced with? All that's happening right now? The key is what's going to happen in the markets. I let's kind of go back to that because that's what's clearly going to drive markets. That's where the growth is. Right. That's the focus I think about AI in three phases. So that's how we frame it up. The first was the build. That's clearly where we spent the last two years where anything attached to AI, billions of dollars in spend, all that was benefited. That's where the scarcity was, that's where the compute was, that's where the energy was. Then we moved to phase two. Investors are looking at and saying well how do we get paid back? You spend billions of dollars, well how do we get ours? And that's when we start asking questions like that there's going to be a disconnect between hype and expectations and the reality, make no mistake about it, we're of the camp that AI is going to over deliver and that it's not under hyped long term but there's going to be a mismatch and that mismatch is going to cause volatility. Well what is the volatility?

[Carol Massar]

I just want to jump in because the over delivering on AI. I think the concern that a lot of people have is what's the fundamental change that it makes to our economy? The idea that workers should be very worried about their jobs because that's the promise that AI has an increase in productivity, an increase in productivity because this technology can do what human beings do. How do you look at that and the effect of that on the economy and the markets?

[David Schassler]

I think about it a little bit differently. So there's no doubt that there's going to be replacement and the next few years are going to be particularly bizarre and uncomfortable for many because where where I can replace, it's already replacing. So you see that in new College graduates, anybody doing repetitive tasks where they're putting their head down and they're pushing computer keys, be concerned. Think about expanding your skill set. At the end of the day I which think about it as the brain is going to combine with the body, which is robotics, to drive massive innovation, massive productivity gains, ultimately massive growth across the entire labor force. That's the setup. So you end up in a period of an abundance where you get better lives, higher quality of life, longer lives, all that coming eventually. But the idea is really simple, is that human beings engage with this technology as we have with every previous technological advancement as it relates to general purpose technologies to make things better. Well, and that's the core assumption here.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

So David, you know the Mag7, the Bloomberg Mag7 Total Return Index, up 25% year to date, dropped more than 8% from late October to November 20th and it's down about 2% since last October. The group has been definitely bouncing around as people question some of the spend by those hyperscalers that make up many of the names within the mag 7. Is Big Tech in your view, a buy, seller, hold at this point?

[David Schassler]

It's a hold and there's going to be more compelling opportunities as volatility is introduced as people question the spend and the productivity payout. So in a very short period of time, unfortunately I would say sell, but the reality is I would hold and buy into dips because we're not entering this overexposed from our side. And that's the key is not being overexposed. This technology cycle has long legs. Yeah, it's going to touch lots of things. It's going to require lots of old world assets. There's a stealth bull market going on in real assets right now as well. Natural resource equities are up more than the QS this year. People aren't talking about that.

[Joyce Wong]

Well, that's.

[David Schassler]

How are we going to pay for this?

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Well, 30 seconds. You have a favorite asset class. I mean gold is soared this year. Bitcoin is bound, has bounced around. That's kind of the two extremes when you think about kind of the investment environment with a lot of stuff including private markets and everything in the middle of that. So favorite asset just got about 25 seconds performance.

[David Schassler]

Bitcoin's a top performer by the end of the year, down 30%. Mismatched off the queues by about 50% this year, followed by gold. Gold to hit $5,000 we think sometime in 2026. By weakness in technology, we're in a long term innovation cycle.

[Sally Bakewell]

Cool stuff.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Calls.

[Podcast Advertiser/Host]

There it is.

[Carol Massar]

We'll have you back.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

We will in 2026. David Schassler, head of Multi Asset Solutions over at Vaneck Funds, joining us.

[Sally Bakewell]

That's some cool stuff.

[Carol Massar]

It was. Stay with us. More from Bloomberg Businessweek Daily Coming up after this.

[Podcast Advertiser/Host]

Support for the show comes from public.com you're thoughtful about where your money goes. You've got your core holdings, some recurring crypto buys, maybe even a few strategic option plays on the side. The point is, you're engaged with your investments and Public gets that. That's why they built an investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can put together a multi asset portfolio for the long haul. Stocks, bonds, options, crypto. It's all there plus an industry leading 3.6% APY high yield cash account. Switch to the platform built for those who take investing seriously. Go to public.com market and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com market paid for by Public Investing. All investing involves the risk of loss, including loss of principal. Brokerage services for U.S. listed registered securities, options and bonds in a self directed account are offered by Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC trading provided by ZeroHash Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures.

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[Carol Massar]

To the Countdown is on.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Yes.

[Carol Massar]

T minus 23 hours. That's when we'll know not just the decision, but also the summary of economic projections that will perhaps give us a good idea of the direction of travel for rates. We've got back with us Joyce Wong. She's senior client portfolio manager at American Century Investments. The firm has about $300 billion in assets under management. She joins us here in the Bloomberg Interactive Brokers studio. We know, we think we know a lot about tomorrow, like, you know, one rate cut, 25 basis points. What do we not know?

[Joyce Wong]

Well, we don't know how Chairman Powell is going to message it. Right. I think, you know, it's been kind of volatile between the last two months with the government shutdown in between that there was going to be a December rate cut. We always thought there was still going to be the December cut. But I think what's going to happen is that we've always been thinking there won't be as many cuts following this one. So in 2026, we think there could be as few as one additional cut after tomorrow. The market was kind of more 3.

[Carol Massar]

4, 1 all of next year.

[Joyce Wong]

Yeah.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

I feel like we've been hearing folks saying that maybe the next one wouldn't come till maybe is it May or later next year?

[Joyce Wong]

So I think that's going to be the messaging around this is how Chairman Powell talks about this cut and when the next one will, if and when the next one will come.

[Carol Massar]

Is the market prepared for that?

[Joyce Wong]

Well, that's why I think it's going to be interesting tomorrow. There have been more and more people joining our camp and saying that there's going to be fewer cuts next year than originally thought a few months ago. The reason we think that is because inflation still remains sticky.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Right.

[Joyce Wong]

We'll see. You know, we are still going to get delayed data. We'll see how the holiday season plays out. But it looks like consumer confidence is staying stable. It's back up a little bit. People are still spending. I saw stats that this was like the best Black Friday in a long time. So it seems like Inflationary pressures that we've seen are still there. So the Fed has to be very, very cautious in reducing much further.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Yeah, it's kind of fascinating. Right. We still have growth. We see softness in the labor market. I mean, is there though the nervousness that as we start to see things maybe slow down in some sectors of the labor market choice, that all of a sudden it can start to kind of pick up some momentum and it get even worse? Because I do feel like we're increasingly seeing companies talk about a I and don't need as many workers from companies who were like before. Nope, it's not going to be a problem. It does feel like that's picking up momentum as well.

[Joyce Wong]

Yes. And that's what I'm really curious to see how Chairman Powell messages that is, if they do cut tomorrow, it's going to be because they are more concerned about the labor market than inflation. Because if it were the other way, they wouldn't cut.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Right.

[Joyce Wong]

So what we want to see is, you know, we got the jolts data. Job openings are actually more than before, which was a surprise a little bit. But people are not leaving their current jobs and moving. People are job hugging. Right. So there's not a lot of turnover. And so that's why a lot of these new jobs aren't being filled just anecdotally.

[Carol Massar]

It's so funny. You said I was talking about to somebody in the last few days who's pretty high up in tech. And I said, and he was talking about his job and I said, you must have headhunters just coming after you. He's like, are you kidding me? I was like, what do you mean? He's like, the market is completely dead right now.

[Podcast Advertiser/Host]

Wow.

[Carol Massar]

Nobody is calling.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

So companies kind of holding on to maybe who they have trimming back and just saying, let's see what's interesting because.

[Joyce Wong]

Of AI or I think it's a little bit because of AI. It's a little bit because the economic and certainty like what 2026 is going to be super interesting because we think it's going to be a bit of a slowdown going into the early part of the year. You know, all these companies are still passing through tariffs. People are still unsure. And then the second half of the year, we actually think there's room for reacceleration. So it could be that companies just want to see how much they can get done with what they have right now or who they have right now. And then if the economic picture does improve as we anticipate, it might they'll add in the middle of the year inflation.

I mean, it's like it's still an issue. It's still there.

[Sally Bakewell]

Yeah.

[Joyce Wong]

I mean, honestly, people always ask me like, what is the biggest risk to markets? And I always say inflation because. Not that I think it's going up to like 9%, even 6, 5%, but we've made a lot of the progress on inflation that we're likely to see. Yeah. You know, so when you look at core inflation, it's actually gone up a little bit. It's still 3% and that's more than the Fed's target.

[Carol Massar]

What would it have been, in your view, if the tariffs wouldn't have been implemented in the way that they were implemented? Like how much of this is tariff induced is another way to ask the question.

[Joyce Wong]

It does seem like some of it is, but what actually is not tariff induced is services. Right. So for example, insurance. I just got my annual insurance renewal.

[Carol Massar]

My condolences.

[Joyce Wong]

Yeah, it's up. Right. Substantially more than, more than 3%.

[Carol Massar]

Yeah.

[Joyce Wong]

So you know, there's these underlying components of the basket that are going up that have nothing to do with tariffs. So the goods inflation is.

[Carol Massar]

The insurance discussion is completely separate. I mean, I think that's it. They have power.

[Joyce Wong]

They do. They, they've got some power there because you have to have home insurance and auto insurance. Right. So that's an example of a component that continues to increase health care costs. We know that that's a hot topic in Washington.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Right.

[Joyce Wong]

Health care costs are probably going to increase power costs.

[Podcast Advertiser/Host]

Right.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

The power, energy.

[Joyce Wong]

Right. So all of these factors that have nothing to do with goods are likely to stay high.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

So we're talking with Joyce Wong. She's senior client portfolio manager at American Century Investments. They've got approximately 300 billion in assets under management. So what are you guys seeing in terms of flows across your platforms, in terms of where money's going, where money's coming out of?

[Joyce Wong]

So at year end, you know, a lot of our clients are thinking about rebalancing, thinking about positioning for next year. I would say income is really the key story here. We're seeing a lot of interest in just locking in these really attractive bond yields. You know, you're getting five and a half up to 60% in some of these actively managed income, income oriented funds that we offer. And people are pretty happy with that, you know, especially if you're looking at cash potentially decreasing with every Fed cut.

[Carol Massar]

What about munis?

[Joyce Wong]

For sure? Munis is definitely one of our more popular offerings. Right now I would say especially going into year end people are taking advantage of munis rebounding and locking in some of those tax.

[Carol Massar]

Well, I feel like the high yield savings account emails that I keep getting where it's like you're rated is dropping, rates dropping, rate is dropping yet. Exactly. And I feel like it just makes munis and other sort of high yield products more attractive for money that would traditionally be in a high yield savings account.

[Joyce Wong]

Yes. I think you saw a huge rush into money markets. High yield everything in 22.

[Carol Massar]

But those money markets still have trillions of dollars. If they're not earning yield, where do they go?

[Joyce Wong]

Right. So there's still a lot of people still in them. I think you're going to start to see that coming out especially with this cut and into January as people rebalance as they take a hard look at their statements. Oh wait, I'm not getting 5% on cash anymore. I'm getting three and a half, 325. 3. It's going to leave.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

So Joyce, on the equity side of things, I mean I'm looking at the s and P500 major industry groups. Communication services are up 33% year to date. Information technology up about 27%. Industrials are up 16%. Utilities are up 12 and a half percent. Financials up 10%. And that's just year to date. We know that we've seen some big swings because of the tariff and trade policies. Where, where's money going when it comes to equity? And I haven't even talked about global equity. So I'm just curious where you're seeing money going in or going out on.

[Joyce Wong]

The equity side for sure. In equities we have a number of products that are focused. I think all those sectors have one thing in common too that's kind of a tech related.

[Podcast Advertiser/Host]

Yes.

[Joyce Wong]

So we are starting to see some focus in our strategies that have that more growth orientation in the US money go. Yes, for sure. I think people are still buying into that story and we're starting to see some flows coming into the contrarian trade. So the sectors that should do better coming out of these Fed cuts. So things like small caps.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Yeah, right.

[Joyce Wong]

So that's another area. American Century is actually the fourth largest small cap manager out there. So we are starting to see a lot of small cap flows coming. So for people who are looking for something that isn't super overvalued. That's an idea. Yeah.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

I feel like the Russell's up almost 14% but it continues to kind of a little forward a little back. It's, it's been struggling. Always fun when you come in. Happy holidays. Hopefully we'll see you maybe before the end of the year again. That would be really lovely. Joyce Wong, she is Senior Client Portfolio Manager at American Century Investments, joining us right here in studio.

[Carol Massar]

Stay with us. More from Bloomberg Businessweek Daily Coming up after this.

[Podcast Advertiser/Host]

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[Co-host/Interviewer]

We're going to stay on the battle, though, for Warner Brothers discovery to a fantastically written deep dive into the hostile takeover bid for the company by Paramount Skydance that is backed by banks, billionaires and sovereign wealth funds with the goal of Torpedo Torpedo putting an end, I should say torpedoing the deal that Netflix has put out there. So let's get to what is one of the most read stories on the Bloomberg Sulliban. Sally Bakewell, I can't speak right now. I'm just going to like point. Sally's here. She's Bloomberg News America's finance team leader. She's here in studio. The financing that's going in to make this happening, it's, it's quite a list. And there's been some jockeying and maneuvering to kind of get the backing. Walk us through what's been going on behind the scenes.

[Sally Bakewell]

There sure has been some jockeying and maneuvering, but what we have landed on now is a $54 billion bridge loan which is coming from bank of America, Citigroup and Apollo, who are taking about 18 billion of that each. And there is also a big equity component of about 40.7 billion. Now, there are lots of interesting things to this. First of all, the whole of that equity is guaranteed by Larry Ellison, essentially, who is the Oracle founder, friend of Trump and father of CEO David Ellison. Now it's guaranteed by Ellison and by Redbird Capital Partners. And providing the actual equity are this host of names from the Gulf region, including Saudi Arabia's public investment fund, the Qatar Investment Authority, and an Abu Dhabi relatively new company called limad, as well as Jared Kushner's Affinity partners. So you have this dash of tech wealth. You have this longtime Ali alo of Trump in Larry Ellison as well. You have a spot of family with Jared Kushner and then you have some Middle east money. And of course, Trump has, you know, fostered some really close ties with the region. So the financing is notable because of the proximity a lot of it has to the president.

[Carol Massar]

You know, this is also a media question, but you brought this up on the call, Carol. When Rupert Murdoch wanted to buy Fox News and the regulatory environment that he had to deal with as a foreigner, who was owning a news asset or a broadcasting asset, Maybe it wasn't Fox News per se, maybe it was the Fox Broadcasting Network. I don't make sure I get that right. And I'm wondering, Sally, and I mean, Hannah, feel free to jump in here too.

[Podcast Advertiser/Host]

Yeah.

[Carol Massar]

If there's any sort of question about where this money comes from, when it is with regard to these, to owning these assets. Like, you know, we've, we've had cable assets that have had Middle Eastern money before and news assets in the US that have had Middle Eastern money before. But would that mean that CNN could potentially be owned by sovereign wealth funds or partially, rather.

[Joyce Wong]

Yeah. And talking about this with folks in the industry, you know, there is this sensitivity around the fact that this is a major news organization at play, that their money could be money coming in from abroad. That's definitely something that shareholders are thinking, thinking about in looking at these deals.

[Carol Massar]

Go ahead, Sally.

[Sally Bakewell]

Well, the, this is the interesting thing about the financing and some of the tweaking and the reworking of the financing stemmed from this foreign investor component. So they're originally in a proposal that was submitted on December 1. So that was an earlier proposal. The most recent one was submitted December 4th. A Chinese company, Tencent, was listed as providing 1 billion of equity. That is no more. And also in the most recent proposal, one of the points that was emphasized was how these Middle east funds will not, they are foregoing governance rights so they won't have board seats and so on. Apparently there were no concerns expressed about that element, but I think the company is trying to ward off potential concerns emerging down the line.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

What about the president's son in law though? How much of a position is that? I mean it's, it's hard without getting political.

[Carol Massar]

But didn't the president say yesterday he hadn't talked to him about it and Jared Kushner is busy working on peace in Gaza.

[Sally Bakewell]

Yes.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Yeah, I just want to make sure. But I mean, okay, how much of that investment, how will he have a board seat? Like I'm just curious, do we know how much we know about around that particular part of the investment?

[Sally Bakewell]

I think the idea is that he will not, he will also forego his governance rights. That is not having a border seat. That is what the proposal said. And it's a kind of interesting playbook that's being developed here. With Jared Kushner because his affinity partners was also part of the consortium that agreed to buy Electronic Arts in September. And apparently he actually brokered the initial connection between the video game maker and the Saudi Arabia PIF Public Investment Fund and actually acted as a central figure in the talk. So it seems like he is a sort of pivotal figure in some of these deals.

[Carol Massar]

I see all the names in here and I hear them coming from you and I think to myself, this is a very complicated deal involving a lot of advisors and a lot of bankers. But is it a complicated deal or is it. A deal of this size would typically have this many moving parts, the debt side, the equity part, and on the equity part, the multiple geographies and the multiple entities.

[Sally Bakewell]

I think that's a really good question because what we're trying to now look into is this 54 billion debt package because the loan, this 54 billion bridge loan is going to be guaranteed by Paramount's assets. Now that's apparently quite weird in the market for a loan like this, a bridge loan like this. And a bridge loan is one of these things that you get and then you bring in other banks to spread the risk. And once the acquisition is announced after time those the loan is placed in sort of more permanent form of financing like bonds. And so what we're trying to figure out now, well, the fact that it's backed by Paramount's assets is an effort to get investment grade ratings as far as we can understand because Paramount currently does not quite have an investment grade rating. So there's just interesting elements to how this financing is being put together that are definitely a bit striking and a bit unusual and we're trying to dig.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Into that more so more to be known. Yes, more to be known.

[Podcast Advertiser/Host]

Yeah.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

I just think it's kind of fascinating. Either of you can weigh in. Is this it or we anticipating higher offers or another round? And I'm just curious, Sally, what you guys are hearing.

[Sally Bakewell]

I think I might have to punt that one to Hannah.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Hannah, are you hearing anything?

[Joyce Wong]

We know that this may not be a final offer and left that that open. Paramount has left that open. Warner Brothers has ten days. Days to respond. Ten business days.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Okay, so we'll see what happens. Is out though, at least for the moment.

[Joyce Wong]

I mean, yes, we heard comments yesterday publicly at a conference.

[Carol Massar]

I mean, I'm not a conspiracy theorist, Carol, but sometimes your Netflix like, you know, and you don't get the assets, you want your the next bidder to pay as much as possible.

[Joyce Wong]

Yeah.

[Carol Massar]

So it ends up costing them that much more, right?

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Exactly. I It just. It just. There's twists and turns to this one and I feel like we're not quite done yet, so I know this may go into the new year. Thank you both for helping us understand this as we go, because there's a lot there.

[Podcast Advertiser/Host]

This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast available on Apple, Spotify and anywhere else you get. Your podcasts listen live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5pm Eastern on bloomberg.com, the iHeartRadio app, TuneIn, and the Bloomberg Business App. You can also watch us live Every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg Terminal.

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