The World Cup Keeps Getting Bigger

Summary

Bloomberg Businessweek: "The World Cup Keeps Getting Bigger"

Date: June 11, 2026
Hosts: Carol Massar, Tim Stenovec
Featured Guests: Randall Williams, Vanessa Perdomo Maglione, Dan Hunt, Stephen Carroll, Ed Ludlow, Bailey Lipschultz, Dr. Sylvia Kwan

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into pivotal developments in the worlds of sports, finance, and international economics, weaving together in-depth discussions on the blockbuster 2026 FIFA World Cup, SpaceX's historic IPO, and the evolving economic and political landscape of Europe. Hosts Carol Massar and Tim Stenovec guide a series of lively, expert-led conversations ranging from World Cup business dynamics and ticket pricing controversy, to IPO logistics and the shifting global order, all while keeping Bloomberg’s signature tone of informed curiosity and sharp business insight.

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1. EXPANDED WORLD CUP: ECONOMICS, EXCITEMENT, AND ACCESSIBILITY

The Biggest World Cup Ever

• Context: The 2026 FIFA World Cup kicks off, hosted across the US, Mexico, and Canada, featuring 48 teams in 16 cities—the tournament's biggest expansion yet.
• Political & Economic Tensions: Tim notes that global conflicts, such as US-Iran tensions, are driving up fuel costs, putting extra strain on fans and travelers (02:32).

State of Team USA

• Setting Expectations: Tim questions Team USA's competitiveness:
  "Soccer, it's globally, it's huge. Here in the US it is growing ... But we're not even close to the best." (03:53)
• Hope at Home: Vanessa highlights the home-field advantage and potential magic:

  “They might be able to do something special and get to the quarterfinals or something further than we've ever seen before. I think if they can capture the magic, that's really what's important. They have to feel it.” (04:11)

World Cup Ticket Pricing Controversy

• Staggering Costs:
  Carol questions cost hikes, observing how 1994 tickets were $65, compared to today’s group match tickets costing hundreds each (05:05).
• Organizational Perspective:
  Dan Hunt (Dallas FC Co-Owner) defends FIFA’s pricing, citing revenue's role in supporting global football:

  “There’s a market demand for this and the revenue they generate from the World Cup supports soccer globally...You want it affordable for fans...you also need to be able to have the money to help support the game for the next four years.” (05:24)

• Skeptics Speak:
  Vanessa counters:

  “It doesn't have to be so expensive...Even in 2022, ticket prices were six to seven times cheaper than this...FIFA wanted to take advantage of the US ticket market.” (06:26)

• Unaffordable for Families:
  Randall assesses fan accessibility:

  “If it costs you $800 for a family of four, one individual ticket each, that’s $3,200. How many families of four are going to be able to pay that? ... Now, just imagine what it’s going to cost to see Lionel Messi play.” (07:25)

• Selling Out?:
  Carol asks if tickets are actually moving; Randall notes prices are trickling down, but actual stadium turnout remains to be seen, with possible last-minute price cuts (08:03).

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2. MARKET DRAMA: SPACEX’S HISTORIC IPO

IPO Details and Public Sentiment

• Unprecedented Scale:
  SpaceX’s IPO raised $75 billion, pricing at $135/share—more than double Saudi Aramco’s record. Ed Ludlow, Bailey Lipschultz provide context and caution over allocation and price discovery (13:24–14:26).
• Uncertainty & Excitement:
  Ed Ludlow:

  “There’s a lot that’s unknown. The allocations aren’t set…There will be loads of people around the world that will be very disappointed.” (14:59)

• Near-Term Potential:
  Ed notes enthusiasm for orbital data centers as a nearer-term revenue driver than previously disclosed (16:15).
• Retail Investors:
  Discussion centers on how much of the IPO will be publicly accessible, trading mechanics, and Tesla investor crossover (19:48–22:24).

Analyst & Advisor Perspectives

• Portfolio Impact:
  Dr. Sylvia Kwan (Ellevest CEO), emphasizes long-term, broad portfolio thinking:

  “It’s not...going to dominate somebody’s portfolio. If they already own some of these ETFs and index funds that SpaceX is going to be added to, they are going to own it, but it’s at a very, very small fraction.” (42:22)

• Bifurcated Sentiment:
  Clients are split—enthusiasts want in, others want SpaceX excluded. The Musk factor is undeniable:

  “If it was anybody other than Elon, would we be having these conversations?”
  “Probably not.” (43:31)

• Long-Term Approach:
  Kwan urges patience:

  “Even if...you believe the growth prospects of SpaceX are just incredible, you don’t have to get in on day one or even day two...” (43:53)

• Lessons from History:
  Both hosts recall Facebook's rocky IPO as a reminder that early volatility is not the full story (44:23).

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3. EUROPEAN ECONOMIC SOUL-SEARCHING

Can Europe Compete?

• Shifting Global Order:
  Carol and Tim introduce the EU’s dilemma: facing challenges from the US, China, and the economic aftershocks of ongoing wars (26:31).
• Slow But Significant Reforms:
  Stephen Carroll explains small-yet-important regulatory changes in mergers and deeper capital markets, potentially signaling real change:

  “Deals that could have been a concern to regulators in the past...it seems that executives have decided it’s worth going ahead because they are sensing a changing attitude.” (29:14)

Transatlantic Tensions as a Stimulus

• Trump’s Unintended Push:
  Margaret Vestager, former EU Commissioner, reflects:

  “I wouldn’t express it that way… but...it was about time for Europe to realize we need to do better ourselves. The European social contract is at stake here…” (31:45) Stephen Carroll: “The degradation of the transatlantic relationship…has spurred, it appears, European leaders into more action on this front.” (32:19)

The China Factor

• Strategic Concerns:
  Carroll outlines how Chinese EVs and increased competition worry EU industries, alongside fears of lost access to the Chinese market (34:27).

Who’s In, Who’s Out?

• EU Composition:
  Expansion, Brexit aftermath, and the institutional difficulties all play a role:

  “The way the EU works right now is already so cumbersome…part of the fear of admitting new countries is you actually make the situation even more complex…” (36:10)

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4. INVESTOR TRENDS: ESG, ALTERNATIVES & THE AI WEALTH BOOM

ESG & Impact: Shifting Talk, Same Demand

• Demand for Values-Aligned Investing:
  Despite the waning trendiness of ESG, interest stays strong—especially among women and younger investors.

  “It's not popular to talk about it...[but] the strategy is the same, the impact is the same, but they need to change their language, especially when it comes to institutions.” (50:10, Dr. Kwan)

• AI Wealth Windfall:
  New tech wealth is prompting conscious investment decisions:

  “They're really thinking about, like, intentionally, how do I want to invest this wealth and use this wealth?” (50:25, Dr. Kwan)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Vanessa Perdomo Maglione on US hopes at the World Cup:

  “If they can capture the magic, that’s really what’s important.” (04:11)

• Randall Williams on ticket prices and accessibility:

  “How many families of four are going to be able to pay [for group stage match tickets]? ... Now, just imagine what it’s going to cost to see Lionel Messi play.” (07:25)

• Ed Ludlow on SpaceX IPO:

  “The allocations aren’t set... There will be loads of people...very disappointed.” (14:59)

• Dr. Sylvia Kwan on SpaceX and investing:

  “If it was anybody other than Elon, would we be having these conversations? ... Probably not.” (43:31)
  “You’ve got a lot of time [to invest] if this is actually going to be amazing for the next 10 years.” (43:53)

• Stephen Carroll on EU policy change:

  “There are signs out there, and they are small but significant, that things are really changing now.” (28:00)

• Margaret Vestager on Europe’s wake up call:

  “I think it was about time for Europe to realize we need to do better ourselves. The European social contract is at stake here...” (31:45)

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Timestamps: Key Segments

• 02:14–08:33 World Cup expansion, ticket prices, accessibility
• 13:24–22:50 SpaceX IPO anticipation, logistics, implications
• 26:31–37:31 Europe’s economic overhaul, EU-US-China dynamics
• 41:01–51:25 Investment strategy, SpaceX in portfolios, ESG & wealth transfer

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Conclusion

Bloomberg Businessweek delivers a fast-paced, cross-cutting look at today's top economic, political, and cultural stories through the lens of sports, markets, and global policy. This episode blends World Cup fever, financing’s high drama, and Europe’s search for renewed power into a rich, insightful listen that contextualizes headlines for global business leaders and curious listeners alike.

Transcript

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Bloomberg Audio Studios Podcasts Radio News this is Bloomberg businessweek Daily reporting from the magazine that helps global leaders stay ahead with insight. Insight on the people, companies and trends shaping today's complex economy. Plus global business, finance and tech news as it happens. The Bloomberg Business Week Daily podcast with Carol Massar and Tim Stanbeck on Bloomberg

[Carol Massar]

Radio well, the most watched sports showdown on earth. We're talking about not the next game, but we'll get to that. We're talking about the FIFA World cup starting today in Mexico City. This year's games hosted in three countries. You know that US, Mexico and Canada. Across 16 cities, 48 teams compete. Tim, that's the most ever.

[Tim Stenbeck]

It comes as the event is being overshadowed by political tensions, conflicts between the US And Iran, driving up fuel prices, creating economic strain for fans. We've got a great duo joining us that knows a thing or two when it comes to the business of sports.

[Carol Massar]

They know everything about sports. With us is Randall Williams. He's Bloomberg News Senior reporter. He's right here in our New York studio. Vanessa Perdomo Maglione. She's Bloomberg News sports business reporter as well in the Bloomberg News Princeton bureau out there. Hello. Hello. Both, by the way, co hosts of the Business of Sports podcast, which, if you're not listening to, shame on you, download it because it's really good.

[Randall Williams]

Thanks.

[Chase Bank Representative]

All right.

[Carol Massar]

You're welcome. Randall, I'm going to start with you. You're right here in studio. Tell us about. This is a big deal and we've been talking about it, I feel like forever. It's getting underway.

[Randall Williams]

It has been a large conversation for many months and years, and now we're finally here. We are as it sits right now, 18 minutes away from. Not tip off, but kickoff. I was tip off is yesterday, but it's tremendous. I think that things will really come into effect. We'll feel it on Saturday when the. On. On Saturday when the matches really begin. And there's a match at MetLife. And I think the Team USA plays on Friday. Right, Vanessa? Do I have that right?

[Vanessa Perdomo Maglione]

Yeah, they play Friday and SoFi Stadium in L. A.

[Randall Williams]

So when Team USA plays, I expect a large crowd. I expect the excitement to kick up. But.

[Tim Stenbeck]

But Vanessa, how good is Team usa? I mean, help set expectations here. I mean, this is the thing, you know, soccer, it's globally, it's huge here in the US it is growing, it is big. But we're not even close to the best.

[Vanessa Perdomo Maglione]

We're definitely not close to the best, and that's definitely correct. But we are better than. I think people might think that we are. You know, I think that the US Is going to do well. I think they're going to definitely get out of their group. They might have the potential to win the group. And I think if they really. You know, I was talking to Alexi Lawless recently and he played in the 1994 World cup, and he really was iterating to me that how important a home World cup really is. And the US Aren't expected to go very far. But I think if they're able to really capture the audience the way that we've seen, you know, in past World Cups, I think that they might be able to do something special and get to the quarterfinals or something like that, or something further. Further than we've ever seen before. I think if they can capture the magic, that's really what's important. They have to feel it.

[Carol Massar]

I gotta say, I wanna talk more about the games itself and who's playing and all that, but the Cost of the World cup, like all the things like transportation.

[Tim Stenbeck]

In 1994, it was only 25 or 65 bucks a ticket.

[Randall Williams]

That's not even gonna get you onto the New Jersey transit to get to me.

[Carol Massar]

I know, I know. Combined by the way, I gotta say that Dan Hunt, co owner, president of the Dallas Football Club, he weighed in on FIFA World cup ticketing prices. Just listen up, guys.

[Dan Hunt]

The rollout is a little bit non traditional how we would do it in American sports, but FIFA has their way of doing it and they've gotten some criticism over the prices and they went back and repriced some cheaper tickets. And what I would say, you know, is there's a market demand for this and the revenue they generate from the World cup supports soccer globally. Their initiatives, from grassroots to growing the men's game, growing the women's game, all the money associated with prize money, player money to clubs and just in developing nations and helping the game along. And this is really their pinnacle, you know, tent pole moment that they have every four years. And so I know there's a, it's a delicate balance, right? You want it affordable for fans because fans make the game, but you also need to be able to have, you know, the money to help support the game for the next four years.

[Carol Massar]

I got to say, you could hear that in so many different marketplaces. That's Dan Hunt, co owner and president of Dallas Football Club. Vanessa, let me just get you to weigh in on that. Is he right? Like, this supports a lot of stuff out there. Does it have to be so Vanessa's face?

[Vanessa Perdomo Maglione]

No, I mean, it doesn't have to be so expensive. It really doesn't. And obviously it hasn't been so expensive in the past World Cups. I mean, yes, 1994 was a very different time, so we can't really note to those ticket prices. But just even in 2022, ticket prices were, you know, six to seven times cheaper than this. We're seeing ticket prices now for group stage matches that we weren't even seeing for last for 2022 is finally, you know, so it doesn't have to be this way. But FIFA wanted to take advantage of the US ticket market. That's exactly what, you know, me and Randall have been having these conversations. That's what they say. They, they knew resale was going to be a problem and they wanted to get in on the game as well.

[Tim Stenbeck]

Is resale Randall a problem right now? I mean, I've talked to friends who are going, I know friend, like I've said before, he's going to five games. Seattle, New York, Louisiana's money. He, he has, he told me in 1994, I was seven years old, I couldn't go to any games. And I vowed then. And he's literally been saving up for years. He says the L A game is much cheaper because they didn't, they didn't price it right.

[Randall Williams]

Well, I think in terms of what is the right price for these things. If you think of what is the normal first sport the kids play, it is soccer because it is so cheap. However, think about the kids who, let's say are pre K to high school. They're going to be relying on their parents. So if it costs you $800 for a family of four, one individual ticket each, that's $3,200. How many families of four are going to be able to pay that? And this isn't, this isn't just group stage. This isn't just quarterfinals. These are group stage matches. These are matches that feature countries that we might not know or might not know players who are playing for them. Now, just imagine what it's going to cost to see Lionel Messi play.

[Carol Massar]

So are the tickets selling?

[Randall Williams]

They are, but it remains to be seen what the audience looks like in these stadiums. There are tickets that are being sold in all these places and the prices are slowly but surely coming down. And there's a possibility that, you know, shortly before a match, FIFA could slash the prices and then people flock to the stadiums. That's also something that could happen. But you're talking about FIFA, which is projected to net over $10 billion in revenue. That's a lot of money over the course of like less than 60 days. However, at what cost?

[Carol Massar]

I have to say the Bloomberg Businessweek Daily team has its own soccer expert. It is known as Sebastian Escobar and he's a club. World cup last year had many impact. D.C. in the U.S. yeah.

[Tim Stenbeck]

Yeah.

[Carol Massar]

Hey, we're going to switch gears. We got to talk about the Knicks game last night if we can. We are all in on soccer, but we got to talk about it. Vanessa, come on in. Man, what a game. If you went to sleep early, you might have missed and not would have been surprised by the outcome. I don't know how you thinking about where we go from here now.

[Randall Williams]

She's about to do.

[Vanessa Perdomo Maglione]

First of all, if you, if you went to sleep early last night, same on. You missed history. You missed history last night. It was the biggest comeback, you know, in NBA playoff history. It was absolutely incredible. You know, I was watching from a scene from a bar in Queens. It was electric at the end, you know, it was unbelievable. So I think from here the series is over. Randall, you were in the building.

[Tim Stenbeck]

You were there last night at msg. Randall.

[Randall Williams]

I was. I was. That was the loudest arena that I've ever been in by far. It was the, the concourse was shaking. I mean Mike Breen said it on the broadcast, this building is shaking. No, it was legitimately shaking. And they, and I mean you have to think a tremendous comeback because I believe it was 6:76 to 49 at halftime.

[Carol Massar]

Yeah.

[Randall Williams]

And at that point The spurs scored 30 points the rest of the game. A tremendous defensive effort. And I think in this aspect I'm joking with Vanessa, but she's probably right. When you, when give up a 29 point lead and then you have to go home and play a team that you haven't beat in your own house, it's kind of over.

[Vanessa Perdomo Maglione]

Great. 29 point lead is like, I mean that is the most soul crushing thing ever.

[Tim Stenbeck]

If you're not. Maybe if you're not a New Yorker.

[Randall Williams]

Exactly right.

[Chase Bank Representative]

Exactly.

[Carol Massar]

You guys are amazing. They're the co hosts of the Business of Sports podcast. Randall Williams and Vanessa Pertomo, Perdomo Maglion, both Bloomberg News Senior Reporter.

[Tim Stenbeck]

Stay with us. More from Bloomberg businessweek Daily coming up after this.

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[Tim Stenbeck]

The headlines for SpaceX, they just keep crossing. We just heard just an update. SpaceX filing a free riding prospectus. It lists price to public as $135 a share. Shares offered 555.56 million. Not a surprise if you've been paying attention those numbers, that is. Also the company's poised to make history with the biggest ever ipo, launching it into the top ranks, the largest public companies putting founder Elon Musk on the verge, Carol, of becoming the world's first trillionaire.

[Carol Massar]

It will trade on NASDAQ and NASDAQ Tax Texas. In case you were wondering if you weren't sure, I mean we're getting all of these details. We want to get into it. There's a lot going on because there's so many different moving parts. We have so many bankers involved, 23 firms putting the finishing touches on the expected $75 billion IPO and again getting ready for this to kick off tomorrow.

[Tim Stenbeck]

We got Ed Ludlow with us. He's the co host of Bloomberg Tech. Bailey Lipschultz, too. He's Bloomberg News IPO reporter. They both join us here in the Bloomberg Interactive Brokers studio. You guys have both covered a lot of IPOs. Bailey, I want to start with you. Is it, is it fair to say demand for Space X is out of this world?

[Bailey Lipschultz]

Out of this world. But is it better than Sarah Bras was a stock that's near to your heart? No, no, but not by definition as it relates to the actual share count available. But, but it's one of those funny things where you go, okay, it's more than 4 times oversubscribe, but then you do the back of the envelope math and say, well, that's a lot of orders. So in terms of sheer net demand, yes, but in terms of like oversubscribed books, we've seen a number of deals like 20, 30, 45 times oversubscribed and that's normal.

[Tim Stenbeck]

So what's, so what's the signal here that this is sending us?

[Ed Ludlow]

I mean, people buy, buy into the story that. You know, the thing about the. Also, Bailey, like, let's just be sort of boring and old fashioned about this for a minute. There's a lot that's unknown. The allocations aren't set right. We put a lot of reporting into all of these big institutions placing orders in the billions of dollars. It's great to place an order. Doesn't mean you'll get it. That gets decided in real time right now. And you know, I think without speaking on his behalf, what our reporting as a newsroom shows is that Elon Musk and the rest of SpaceX management have been very in control of this process, dictating the terms literally. But also, who's going to get access in the end, the retail portion again, when it gets settled on a percentage basis or a dollar basis, there will be loads of people around the world that will be very disappointed. So that actually it's academic. What happens tomorrow when it starts trading?

[Carol Massar]

You know, okay, there's the excitement around the ipo and it's hard not to. The largest IPO ever.

[Ed Ludlow]

I'm stalling, by the way, because he's trying to send messages to sources and so I'm just trying to.

[Carol Massar]

Okay, yeah, okay. But I guess what. Okay, so I'm going to stall with you. I mean, there's the excitement over the ipo. Yay. We're going to get the first day of trading. I get it, I get the importance of it. But then there's the actual business. I mean, this is not a profitable business.

[Ed Ludlow]

It's not. But you know what's been very interesting in the last week? Let's say speaking to a lot of existing investors and people that will participate in this ipo. They're actually probably even more bullish on the nearer term opportunity than SpaceX has set out in the prospectus. So actually the idea of orbital data centers, these are data centers in the form of satellite going into deployment and then generating revenues. Actually a lot of people I've spoken to very seriously believe that is more imminent than SpaceX has said it is. They've said as early as 2028.

[Tim Stenbeck]

Brett Winton, you had him on the program from Ark Invest.

[Ed Ludlow]

Ark Invest is very bullish.

[Tim Stenbeck]

He said anything. 300 billion dollar.

[Ed Ludlow]

Yeah, so. So let me explain as I can. His thesis. Yeah.

[Carol Massar]

And Cathie Wood, you know, I know some people find her controversial and there's people who you know, buy what she says and there are others who don't. But having said that, she was with Elon from the get go when everyone didn't wasn't really impressed with what he's doing at Tesla. And it did take a full, you know, several years and he didn't hit all his deadlines. But here you are.

[Ed Ludlow]

So you always start with Elon. Musk often misses the timelines that he himself sets out, but gets there in the end. This is a question about valuation, right? So this stock will trade at 100 times or 90 times current revenues and forward 12 month revenues as best we can calculate them. What Brett Winton and Ark's argument is is that. Well actually we have a lot of data available to us about Starlink. That is the business of Internet and direct to sell based on satellites. We know the cost of those satellites, we know how many of them there are. We know the the dollar basis it takes to put them there. And all he's doing is extrapolating out to the data center business and saying I actually can model for how quickly they can book revenues on it with the big if they get Starship, their big rocket to work. Simples.

[Carol Massar]

Okay, okay.

[Tim Stenbeck]

Bailey's been on the Bloomberg terminal app

[Bailey Lipschultz]

on the, on the phone because Ed gets the computer.

[Tim Stenbeck]

Okay people, sorry, what do you. We're talking about SpaceX reports that the pricing of the IPO formally at 135. So not a surprise though.

[Bailey Lipschultz]

No, not a surprise at all. Again, Elon kind of called a shot in terms of this being a $75 billion fundraise, this being a deal that comes at $135 each. But it's official according to what we're reporting on the terminal right now. And the reason that matters is now to Ed's point, everyone on the buy side is going to figure out tonight, early tomorrow morning, what their allocation was and they're going to have to think through what they want to do tomorrow.

[Tim Stenbeck]

Well, tomorrow. You know, typically when, when a company goes public and has its first day of trading, there's this price discovery moment. We don't know exactly what time shares will start trading. Do we expect that to happen tomorrow? Bailey, Is it? Sometimes price discovery can take a really long time.

[Bailey Lipschultz]

It can take a really long time. I mean we'll go typical. Normally in the 10 o' clock hour we'll start getting indications from NASDAQ. The biggest thing to keep in mind, indications mean everything and nothing. No one is trading shares.

[Tim Stenbeck]

Remember that.

[Bailey Lipschultz]

You can see an indication though that says $700 1000 dol. It means absolutely nothing. What matters is when we get closer to that, call it one o', clock, two o' clock window. When we get closer to the first trade that Morgan Stanley is going to execute.

[Carol Massar]

Right.

[Bailey Lipschultz]

What does that look like? Because first trade actually does matter because someone bought and sold in that moment.

[Ed Ludlow]

Sorry, I'm typing but I am listening.

[Carol Massar]

No, no, no, no. It's just, you know, listen again. This is prolific.

[Tim Stenbeck]

What, who's buy ed, who's who can buy who, who can actually sell.

[Ed Ludlow]

So, so I think what's going to be more interesting, right is the retail allocation. Wherever it ends up, you know, again there will be lots of individuals around the world super disappointed. So the indication doesn't matter. It's, it's largely a sentiment indicator and it's based on humans talking to one another. But when the trade happens, you know what we heard on television, Bloomberg Television today, but also on the phone is okay, we open and it goes higher. Right. But even if it starts trading at 1pm Eastern and there's three hours left in the session, it will be the first opportunity for a lot of people to buy at that start of trade. And, and they will want to try and this, this life changing amounts of gains. Right. So they'll want to sell it if it went to 202. This is hypothetical.

[Carol Massar]

So the volume could be crazy tomorrow.

[Ed Ludlow]

Yeah, the. I, I don't know the answer.

[Bailey Lipschultz]

Who's allowed, I mean no, it's everyone. It's open market, but it's only people on the IPO. So the $75 billion afloat is what trades tomorrow. There's, there's no insider, there's no long term employee, everything. What's the day?

[Tim Stenbeck]

Do we have details on the lockup?

[Bailey Lipschultz]

Lockup starts after second quarter earnings. Quarter ends in June, so.

[Ed Ludlow]

And it's even more severe on Elon's own shares. Not that he, you know, he. It's academic because he'll just take out

[Tim Stenbeck]

loans against his shares.

[Ed Ludlow]

Correct. But also doing his economic ownership of the company is not the story here. It's his voting power in the company. And so, you know, these are hypotheticals. The main point being that the thesis as presented by SpaceX management, or at least in our reporting and the existing shareholders is the reason they'll do a larger shareholder to allocation to retail investors is they believe that those retail investors believe the story.

[Bailey Lipschultz]

Well, it's partly that and it's also again going back to the reason that

[Ed Ludlow]

this is so fun. We're just here holding off.

[Tim Stenbeck]

I got to tell you, a story just crossed.

[Ed Ludlow]

Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry.

[Tim Stenbeck]

331 written by Bailey Lipschultz and he's been sitting right here. So I don't know how that happened, but that's the, that's the story. Space X's IPO raises $75 billion in biggest debut of all time.

[Bailey Lipschultz]

But the thing is, 30 to 40% of Tesla is owned by individual investors. Writ large.

[Ed Ludlow]

Exactly.

[Bailey Lipschultz]

Selling Even in the IPO, 25% to retail is a small fraction when you think about what is going to be unlocked in the next year. So the big question and a lot of things investors are debating is how does retail ramp up buying to own 30% of a $1.72 trillion company? Because 30% of 75 billion is a big number, but it's still only $22 billion. That's trades like water and Nvidia from a retail perspective.

[Ed Ludlow]

Yeah, there's one interesting dynamic which I think tomorrow is going to be very interesting. So look at shares of Tesla tomorrow.

[Carol Massar]

Okay.

[Ed Ludlow]

And the reason being is that if you're a retail investor that did not get an allocation, that's how you get into it. What choice do you face if your entire net wealth is tied up in Tesla shares that you've held because you believe in the story long term, what do you do? Do you sell to give yourself some money to do that or going into this, did you sell to.

[Bailey Lipschultz]

Well, the big thing though is for a number of. Just to clarify, on some points, each platform, each E broker is different. So some brokers, when you put in an order hypothetically for $100,000 of SpaceX shares, you either have to have that liquid or have assets, pledges, collateral. So it's not necessarily like we're going to see in real time tomorrow, people selling to turn around and buy per

[Carol Massar]

say it's just kind of wild, right? And if you believe that these two companies are all going to end up being one at some point, like yeah,

[Tim Stenbeck]

that's again to be continued tomorrow, 1pm with our special coverage.

[Carol Massar]

This is just the beginning.

[Tim Stenbeck]

These guys will be here.

[Carol Massar]

All right, that is Ed Ludlow, Bloomberg Tech Co host Bailey Lipschultz, Bloomberg News IPO Reporter.

[Tim Stenbeck]

Stay with us. More from Bloomberg businessweek Daily Coming up after this

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[Bailey Lipschultz]

So as a pizza genius, I know

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[Bailey Lipschultz]

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[Carol Massar]

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[Carol Massar]

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[Bailey Lipschultz]

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[Carol Massar]

Well, the European Central bank, speaking of things going on, the ECB raising interest rates for the first time in almost three years. We got the FOMC meeting next week with Kevin Walsh chairing for the first time. Meantime, ECB President Christine Lagarde warning inflation triggered by the Iran war is widening beyond just energy. Keep in mind Europe definitely feeling the pain of two wars as the US as the Russia, Ukraine war is now more than four years old and counting. And of course, you have the US War in Iran. Even so, Europe seems to be shaking itself away.

[Tim Stenbeck]

Yeah. As the global order disintegrates and China dives deeper into Europe's traditional markets, EU leaders say the bloc needs bigger and everything to protect itself. Bigger banks, bigger tech firms, bigger defense contractors, bigger investments ahead of next week's G7 Leader Summit. Bloomberg has been speaking to policymakers and investors about Europe's path ahead as new Bloomberg economics analysis underlines what major change is needed. And yet can the block, Carol, really evolve?

[Carol Massar]

Yeah, it's a big question. Our Brussels radio anchor Stephen Carroll, bureau chief Suzanne lynch and editor Corey Bennett have been speaking to figures at the heart of Europe's political and financial decision making. And Steven joins us right now. He's co host, Bloomberg Daybreak Europe, joining us from the Bloomberg News Brussels bureau. He's also host of the here's why podcast. Stephen, so good to have you here with Tim and myself. First of all, tell us about this mission that you and our Bloomberg colleagues have been on and the questions specifically that you were trying to answer.

[Stephen Carroll]

The question we're trying to answer is is whether Europe's actually finally going to do something about its economic decline. The warnings have been around for years. Remember that big report from Mario Draghi, nearly two years old now, saying that it was existential for Europe, that it made major reforms, integrated its markets more, ramped up investment, massively to 1.2 trillion euros a year. And the sense that we've been getting from our reporters around the continent is there was a sense of a shift towards progress on this finally, and that perhaps we were moving because of the pressures that were coming on the EU from the United States. We know obviously the Trump administration has been particularly unfriendly to the European Union, but also the rising competition from China, questions around access to markets, putting pressure on manufacturers here that perhaps things were starting to change. And we went looking for where those changes might come. And actually, although I know you'll think I'm crazy if I start talking about small details in European policy changes, there are signs out there, and they are small but significant, that things are really changing. Now.

[Tim Stenbeck]

What are some of those signs that things are changing? Is it more than just Europe doing more of its own defence spending? Is it? What is it?

[Stephen Carroll]

Defence spending is a key one and it's an interesting example for a model that could be used in other areas in the sorts of things that Mario Draghi wanted the European Union to spend more money on. But I will point to merger rules. This is an area the EU has had a huge influence globally over reviewing mergers, antitrust law. And the EU said a couple of months ago they were going to start revising those merger rules. And we're already seeing signs of businesses taking notice of this, deals that in the past you thought might be flagged by regulators. We had a big telecoms announcement in France in the past week. We had a big banking merger announcement in Italy in the past week as well. And these are the sorts of deals that from a big picture point of view, you want bigger companies, more cross border investment, bigger banks in particular to help for financing across the continent. These are the sorts of deals that could have been a concern to regulators in the past. But it seems that executives have decided it's worth going ahead because they are sensing a changing attitude. The other issue, and it's something that we've covered for a very long time here at Bloomberg, is questions around deeper capital markets in Europe trying to encourage more of that cross border investment. Six Europe's six biggest economies have now said they're going to go ahead with this plan even if they can't get an agreement at a 27 level. That's significant too because it's considered now to perhaps be a model as to how things get done in this moment is look, you get a big group of countries together, they go ahead. The others can join if they want. But crucially, you will start to Provide those deeper markets that will hopefully stimulate investment and help to turn around the economic fortunes as well.

[Carol Massar]

You know, Stephen, to be fair. Right, and our players, the EU figures its way forward. Forward and its position in the world. President Trump upended so many longstanding global relationships. Some say that was long overdue. Others say big mistake. These have been longtime allies and it impacts not just geopolitics, but it impacts business. When it comes to the EU and the US Relationship, you had a perfect voice to talk with. Tell us about your conversation and check in with the former EU Commissioner for Competition.

[Stephen Carroll]

Margaret Vestair is one of the EU policymakers who's really been at the forefront of some of the most controversial ends of EU policy, competition or being won. She was also part of developing the new digital rule book, which we know the Trump administration doesn't like either. She was in one of the top positions at the EU Commission until 2024. And I asked her about this question as to whether actually maybe Donald Trump had done the EU a favor by upending this relationship and spurring them into action. Let's take a listen to what she had to say.

[Carol Massar]

I wouldn't express it that way because, you know, I'm really sad about some of the very, very negative effects of the Trump presidency. Take the closure of usaid, the risk of offsetting a new AIDS epidemic. So I think one cannot see it like that. That being said, I think it was about time for Europe to realize we need to do better ourselves. The European social contract is at stake here because many people feel that that social contract is not being upheld.

[Stephen Carroll]

That's Margaret Vestair, formerly of the European Commission. Really putting in perspective the influence that the degradation of the transatlantic relationship has had and how that has spurred, it appears, European leaders into more action on this front, realizing that they have to rely on themselves more because they can't rely on one of their most important traditional partners. And she actually pointed to Donald Trump's comments around wanting to annex Greenland earlier this year as being a moment that really seemed to spur a change in attitude and a sense that actually now Europe needs to tackle some of these long running underlying problems to be able to provide better protection for the social model. The wealthy influence that it's built up over time. Now, I don't want to get you too excited about this because things happen slowly in Europe at a European Union level. We're in the middle of the discussions on the next European budget, for example. That could be another area where there could be big changes. The ambitions that we've had an update on Today don't look hugely different. So that might not be the level of excitement that we want. But the conversations are happening and there is a sense that we're moving towards something that will result in more European integration and more, as a result, Europeans influence on the world. Bloomberg Economics was looking at the potential consequences of this as well. They say the path is going to be divergent even further. The European Union will fall further behind the US Economically if there isn't big changes made. But if there are, that will arrest, first of all, the decline and actually could see the two economies converge as well. None of that, of course, mentioning AI, which could change everything.

[Tim Stenbeck]

Well, let's talk a little bit about technology and also geopolitics here beyond the United States. You did mention China as another factor that is driving this. And if we think about it from the perspective of EVs, for example, you're not going to find Chinese EVs here in the United States. Not the case for mainland Europe, where you could see, I don't know, Norway, Italy, Spain. In France, you can see Chinese EVs on the roads there. How much of this is about China and what is it about China specifically that has the bloc concerned?

[Stephen Carroll]

So there's a couple of issues here. One is that China is moving in on Europe's traditional industries of strength. And the motor industry is a perfect example of that. It's true. I see BYD cars around Brussels. You know, they're more present here in many parts of the continent as well. And it's a question of the EU having to, you know, make this decision about whether or not there are industries that it's going to protect and support? Car making, we know, is extremely politically important in Germany, for example. So will there be, will that be an obstacle to try and support those industries rather than necessarily or to protect, you know, from Chinese imports in that area. The other question is also access to the Chinese market because it's an important export market for a lot of big European companies as well. And they fear more barriers being put up which could cut off that very lucrative market for them at a time when obviously now we're going to have trade tariffs with the US as well. So some of those big export markets could actually be closed off to European exporters as well. And that's another way that we could see industries hurt by this complete shifting in the global order that we've seen.

[Carol Massar]

Speaking about the global order and the shifting, I keep thinking about the European Union. We've had a lot of stories. I'm sure, Stephen, you know, on the Bloomberg about the UK, I'm looking at one that was done on June 9th. So just this week, how the UK's options for rebuilding ties with Europe stack up, this possibility of the UK coming back. But I do think about the composition of the European Union. Some have questioned some of the countries and the entities that are part of that institution. How is that going to move forward? How important is that in terms of who's in, who's out matters in terms of its place in the global world?

[Stephen Carroll]

Well, that's a really important question too, because of course we have a whole range of countries who've been lining up for years to try and join the European Union across the western western Balkans, for example. But also there's been such a renewed focus on Ukraine's potential membership of the European Union too. And a lot of these questions are tied up with the fact that the way the EU works right now is already so cumbersome. And part of the fear of admitting new countries is you actually make the situation even more complex and as you add divergent political views from different domains as well, is that there will be a need to give up, for example, the veto that exists in some areas of the European Union. Nobody's willing to have those sort of conversations because it's such a laborious and time consuming process when there are other big crises that need to be addressed. Now I do think it's important to talk about what happened with Brexit though, because obviously the UK leaving was a blow for the eu. They took a voice out of conversations on things like capital markets, for example, where Britain would have had a lot of influence. And the countries who would like to see greater integration over or for in some cases might want to protect part of their own financial industries as well, have lost perhaps an ally around the table there too. So those alliances have shifted over the past 10 years. New bridges had to be built between countries too. I don't think the eu, the UK is going to be rejoining the EU anytime soon, but closer ties does seem to be on the cards.

[Carol Massar]

Hey, great to check in with you. I know it's later there, but so appreciate it. Of course. Stephen Carroll, co host of Bloomberg Daybreak Europe, joining us from the Bloomberg News Brussels bureau. He's also hosting of the here's why podcast.

[Tim Stenbeck]

Stay with us. More from Bloomberg businessweek Daily Coming up after this.

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Yep.

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You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Daily podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5 Eastern. Listen on Apple CarPlay and Android Aut with the Bloomberg Business app or watch us live on YouTube.

[Tim Stenbeck]

I'm glued to the terminal. All things SpaceX the latest the company raising $75 billion in the IPO. Not a surprise to anyone who's been paying attention. 555.6 million shares at $135 each. It's now official. It's according to a statement on its website. Here's some context, Carol. SpaceX's IPO is more than double the size of Saudi Aramco's 29.4 billion dollar listing back in 2019. I'm old enough to remember when Alibaba was a big ipo.

[Carol Massar]

Yeah, I mean, I remember we were talking down and counting down to Saudi Aramco's listing. Like these were massive, massive issues and something that the market really took notice of, I've got to say. It's safe to say that we're asking everyone about this moment in time, including our next guest. With us is Dr. Sylvia Kwan. She's CEO of the investment advisory firm Elvest. They've got about 1.1 billion in assets under management. She joins us here in our Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio. Welcome, welcome. Nice to have you here.

[Dr. Sylvia Kwan]

Great to be here.

[Carol Massar]

How do you think about someone who has watched the markets, think about this moment in time, the SpaceX IPO.

[Dr. Sylvia Kwan]

It is a historical moment. It's terribly exciting, regardless of what you think the valuation of SpaceX is. It's just very exciting that this is actually happening now. At Ella Vas, you know, we're focused on long term investment management and portfolios and we're very focused on diversification. We don't pick individual stocks. And so this is. The IPO is not something that we are specifically placing in client portfolios.

[Tim Stenbeck]

You said it's exciting. You're not specifically placing it in client portfolios at this moment yet. If you are an investor in the entire stock market, then you're going to own SpaceX no matter what. After what could be be maybe even five or six days, depending on how long it takes to be added to some of the indexes. A good thing.

[Dr. Sylvia Kwan]

I don't think it's either a good thing necessarily or bad thing because it's going to be such a small part of the overall portfolio. So it's not like it's going to dominate somebody's portfolio. If they already own some of these ETFs and index funds that SpaceX is going to be added to, they are going to own it, but it's at a very, very small fraction.

[Tim Stenbeck]

Are you hearing from clientele right now? We spoke to Wealthfront CEO David Fortunato yesterday who, who said that last week the company put out a blog post about SpaceX's IPO and that within seconds they had customers getting in touch on both sides, being like, I want in on this or I want nothing to do with this. I Don't want this anywhere near my portfolio. And he said, we do direct indexing, so we can control, even if somebody buys an index, we can control what they, what they actually buy. Are you hearing from clients?

[Dr. Sylvia Kwan]

We are extremely hearing the same thing, really. There are some that are very excited about the prospects and they want in. And we said, great, you can go ahead and do that and try to get some shares. And there are some that say, I want to avoid this at all costs. And we also have direct in and say, and allow them to take that out of the universe of possibilities.

[Carol Massar]

I think it's just interesting. If it was anybody other than Elon, would we be having these conversations?

[Dr. Sylvia Kwan]

Probably not.

[Carol Massar]

Yeah.

[Dr. Sylvia Kwan]

Yeah, it's very bifurcating.

[Carol Massar]

Yeah, it's really kind of fascinating to watch this and it's something that, listen, we're gonna have the first day of trading, we've had this lead up, but it's also then watching what we get in terms of trading in the following months right after the ipo, and what we hear from the company about the actual fundamentals that matter.

[Dr. Sylvia Kwan]

That's right. And so the way I think about it, because this is such an exciting event, it's a huge story, there are a lot of people who are excited about the story and not really thinking about the fundamentals. But even if you are thinking about the fundamentals and you believe, hey, you know, the growth prospects of SpaceX are just incredible, you don't have to get in on day one or even day two, you know, if this is a long term investment and you think, hey, this is actually going to be amazing for the next 10 years, you've got a lot of time.

[Tim Stenbeck]

I mean, think about, again, this is at this point ancient history, but if we go back to the company now known as meta platforms, but it was Facebook that was essentially a disastrous IPO back in 2012.

[Carol Massar]

I remember that day actually really well.

[Tim Stenbeck]

Yeah, I do too, because it was shocked.

[Carol Massar]

Right.

[Tim Stenbeck]

And everybody's like, how did this get so messed up?

[Carol Massar]

Right?

[Tim Stenbeck]

Yeah. Was that, that was 2012. Yeah. So. And, but if you, but if you bought in, then even if you weathered the early tumult, you're pretty happy camper right now.

[Dr. Sylvia Kwan]

That's right.

[Tim Stenbeck]

Because that was trading what at you know, basically $35 a share and now $568 a share.

[Carol Massar]

So Sylvia, one thing I wonder about, like, you know, you guys are dealing with wealth transfer, a lot more money coming into the hands of women. People thinking about longer term, people are living longer, how they need to make sure that they're, that they've got money to live on, essentially. But what are the, the long or what are the narratives that are out there right now? Whether it's near shoring on shoring, whether it's all of a sudden we're talk and kind of raw commodities, if you will, in terms of an investment play the AI play. We see the money, we see the continuing demand, certainly when it comes to the semiconductor space. But there are some who are questioning what the fallout is. Is there an overbuild? Will we need it all? You know, there's lots of questions out there. What are the positioning. I'm also curious about all alternatives. Is there still the wish to be in private credit or private equity? What. Where is it that they want to be?

[Dr. Sylvia Kwan]

So at Ellevest, we still believe that alternatives has a significant part to play in a client's portfolio. But not all alternatives are created equal. And so we're really looking for those private investments that have that low correlation to public markets because that's really what is going to get the diversification for your portfolio. So we're very, as you might know, we're also 100% dedicated to impact investing and not only generating returns, but also impact. So oil and gas is not typically something that we find in client portfolios. We'll see more other infrastructure things like renewable energy and other real assets are there pre.

[Tim Stenbeck]

Again, going back to the how we're thinking about the companies that are getting all the attention right now. Carol asked about alternative investments. Do you consider pre IPO shares of private companies right now like an anthropic or like an OpenAI as part of or secondaries as part of an alternative asset portfolio?

[Dr. Sylvia Kwan]

Sure, they absolutely can be. We do have venture as part of our portfolios and to the extent there are AI companies and other companies, you know, with technology innovations, that is definitely part of.

[Tim Stenbeck]

Is there tension with ESG or Impact investing with those companies just because of the environmental impact and how we're thinking about power?

[Dr. Sylvia Kwan]

There can be. And really when you talk about values align, it's really a personal question.

[Carol Massar]

Right.

[Dr. Sylvia Kwan]

And so somebody who's really focused on the environment will have a different portfolio than somebody who's really focused focused on economic parity or something like that. So it's really a personal kind of thing. And that's where at all of us we're really trying to craft something that is specific to that individual.

[Carol Massar]

You know, there used to be a moment in time and it's interesting with the SpaceX IPO I think about, you know, Elon Musk and his play on solar. Right. And renewables. Like, it's just kind of interesting, the different parts of our world that he touches. Having said that, I haven't looked at the return. Let me just pull up the Invesco Solar etf. Like, what we have seen in terms of the trade are the returns there. Because I have noticed too, and I think, I feel like, Tim, we've had guests on where people have said, listen, people are still investing in renewals. The move is still on. We're just not talking about it. Is that true?

[Dr. Sylvia Kwan]

I think that is true. And when you think about the energy that is required for all of this AI, it needs all forms of energy in order to meet this kind of demand. So I just don't think.

[Carol Massar]

I think solar ETF is up 27% year to date. That's a surprise, too. Okay. Anyway, forgive me, I interrupted.

[Dr. Sylvia Kwan]

Oh, no worries. You know, I think solar and other kind of green energy has kind of gotten removed from some of the vocabulary. It's not in vogue anymore, but it is still something that our clients care about and that we care about and that I think that demand will continue to. In the coming years, they'll continue to grow.

[Carol Massar]

Are you surprised by that?

[Tim Stenbeck]

No. I mean, one thing I am surprised about is the way that if we think about impact investing, and I use the terms ESG to be fair, but if we were, if we were talking to you five years ago, that's probably how we would have led the interview. But people aren't talking about their values when it comes to. To investing right now. And our prediction at the time was like, it's all well and good in an up market and one where, you know, you can be pick, pick and choose. But I wonder right now how much of it has to do with just a handful of companies that are driving so much performance versus just a way, a change in tone in the way that the environment is politically right now. What is it?

[Dr. Sylvia Kwan]

I think it's the latter.

[Tim Stenbeck]

You do?

[Dr. Sylvia Kwan]

I think it's. Its popularity has waned. It's not popular to talk about it. We have noticed some of the fund managers that we work with that are impact managers having to change their language a bit.

[Tim Stenbeck]

We've noticed that too. Yeah, but they've told us, they've told us that they're changing their language, but they're not necessarily changing what they're doing. They're just changing the way they communicate about it.

[Dr. Sylvia Kwan]

Exactly. That's exactly right. The strategy is the same the impact is the same, but they need to change their language, especially when it comes to institutions.

[Tim Stenbeck]

But you're still seeing the demand come from your clientele for that type of messaging or at least that type of value space investing.

[Dr. Sylvia Kwan]

Absolutely. We're seeing that amongst not only women, but younger generations. And in fact, we have been talking to some of the beneficiaries of AI, whether it's employees and things like that that are coming. And it's interesting because we are hearing that they're coming into this great wealth that they never expected and they're really thinking about, like, intentionally, how do I want to invest this wealth and use this wealth? And so we've been talking about sort of like, oh, now that I've had this wealth, it's not just about generating more wealth, it's about intentionally doing something good with that wealth.

[Tim Stenbeck]

You remind me of Danielle Amade's comments at Bloomberg Technology last week talking to our own Shereen Ghaffari about how, how she's committed to giving away 80% of her net worth to charity. Yeah, she's one of the co founders of Anthropic.

[Carol Massar]

Yeah, exactly. It's a, it's a, it's certainly guiding how she does things in a big way. Come back soon. Thank you. We really.

[Dr. Sylvia Kwan]

Thanks for, thanks for having me.

[Carol Massar]

Dr. Sylvia Kwan, CEO of the investment advisory firm Elvest, joining us. 1.1 billion in a. Um, joining us right here in our Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio.

[Podcast Announcer]

This is the Bloomberg Business Week daily podcast available on Apple, Spotify and anywhere else you get your podcasts listen live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5pm Eastern on Bloomberg.com, the iHeartRadio app, TuneIn and the Bloomberg Business app. You can also watch us live Every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg. Terminal.

[Dr. Sylvia Kwan]

Aging is real.

[Carol Massar]

And so are the benefits of adding vital proteins collagen peptides to your daily routine. New vital proteins collagen sparkling water. Your daily glow up now in three fresh flavors. Strawberry blossom, lemon, lime and blood orange. Improved skin health in as little as 30 days thanks to collagen Peptides. Cheers to that. Or go with our classic collagen peptides so you can stay vital.

[Dr. Sylvia Kwan]

Stay you.

[Carol Massar]

Visit vitalproteins.com to learn more and where to buy. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration.

[Dr. Sylvia Kwan]

This product is not intended to diagnose,

[Carol Massar]

treat, cure or prevent any disease.

[Stephen Carroll]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same Premium Wireless for $15 a month. Plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to [e-mail]

[Dr. Sylvia Kwan]

Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3

[Chase Bank Representative]

month equivalent to $15 per month Required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full [e-mail] if you're feeling off

[Carol Massar]

fatigue, mood changes, skin shifts, yet your

[Chase Bank Representative]

labs say everything's normal. You're not alone. Mitoestra from Inner Balance the first all in one prescription strength bioidentical hormone cream that's natural and effective and only takes

[Carol Massar]

one drop, 10 seconds a day.

[Dr. Sylvia Kwan]

Oestra replaces five to six products women

[Chase Bank Representative]

typically use to treat symptoms and is third party tested to ensure the highest quality. Visit innerbalance.com today to start feeling like yourself again. That's innerbalance.com.