Trade and Geopolitics on the High Seas

Summary

Podcast Summary: Bloomberg Businessweek – “Trade and Geopolitics on the High Seas”

Date: January 28, 2026
Hosts: Carol Massar & Tim Stenovec
Guest: Stamatis Santanas, Chairman & CEO of Synergy Maritime Holdings and United Maritime Corporation

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Overview

In this episode, Carol Massar and Tim Stenovec explore the intersection of global trade and intensifying geopolitical tensions, focusing on how these dynamics are impacting shipping and commodities markets. Their guest, Stamatis Santanas, an industry leader in maritime commodities transport, shares firsthand insights into how trade routes, shipbuilding, and raw materials demand are shifting in response to global instability.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Escalation of Geopolitical Instability

• Santanas’ View on Stability
  • “[Things are] certainly…less stable. I mean, you have so many things going on around the world. You have disruptions, you have…potential wars…military drive…shipping and raw materials…become more and more relevant all the time.” (01:58)

2. Commodities Rally and Demand Drivers

• Rise in Raw Materials Prices
  • Santanas observes a rally in commodities: “You have gold, you have silver, you have tin, you have copper, you have all these prices surging…demand is so strong for these products.” (03:00)
• Strategic & Defense Needs
  • Importance of metals isn’t just for real estate: “It's strategic, it's defense, it's military…you need to upgrade the power grids…create all these data centers…and all these things require vast amounts of metals…” (03:21)

3. Geopolitical Disruptions to Shipping Routes

• Red Sea and Black Sea Instability
  • “Red Sea has been out of the question for more than a year now. Black Sea is out of the question because of missiles…The more places you avoid, the more diversions…longer distances…more ships you need. So freight rates go up, unfortunately.” (04:11)

4. Shipbuilding Trends and Costs

• Inflation and Asian Shipyards
  • “Inflation is everywhere…building ships has surged a lot…China has been building a lot of ships recently and prices keep going up…US at a certain point need to start building ships.” (04:39)
  • Santanas confirms his companies are building new ships in China and Japan but notes minimal US shipbuilding activity. (05:06-05:17)

5. US Trade Policy and Globalization

• Tariffs and Onshoring vs. Unstoppable Trade
  • Despite US tariffs and efforts to reshore manufacturing, global trade continues to grow: “In theory that’s a very correct statement. But in practical terms, I think global trade keeps going up every year after year and it's unstoppable.” (06:06)
• Growth in Heavy Commodities
  • “Consumer goods is only a part of shipping. All the heavy things…oil, oil products, metals, iron ore, coal, bauxite…keep increasing year after year…” (06:26)

6. Flow of Commodities: China’s Central Role

• China’s Growing Share
  • “China has been producing 56% of the global steel production…$5 trillion of committed infrastructure projects globally…a lot of steel you’re going to require in the next few years.” (07:10)
  • Tariffs and global tensions “haven't really slowed down China at all...They continue to increase their production of steel and aluminum and all the strategic metals...” (08:06)

7. Company’s Business Focus

• What Synergy & United Maritime Transport
  • “Mostly iron ore, coal and bauxite…20 million tonnes of raw materials every year…” (06:45)
• On Oil Shipping
  • Used to have oil tankers; left at the last peak but plans to re-enter when the cycle is right: “At the next part of the cycle we will definitely get back into tankers.” (09:00)

8. Venezuela’s Limited Role in Oil Shipping

• Not Yet Significant
  • “Venezuela is still not a big part…they only do like a few hundred thousand barrels per day…so far, we don't really see them as making any material difference in seaborne oil.” (09:22)

9. Takeaways from Davos

• Military & Infrastructure Focus
  • “It’s all about infrastructure, it’s all about defense, it’s all about military spending. It's all about alliances…” (10:03)
  • “The narrative in Davos…it's all about the future of alliances, infrastructure, real estate…”
  • Notably recounts a dinner with Eric Trump discussing Middle East real estate projects. (10:03)

10. Middle East as a Growth Engine

• Optimistic Outlook
  • “Middle East is a spectacular place…everything’s modern, new, huge scale…I’m very hopeful [the UAE and Saudi Arabia] will continue to be investing hundreds of billions of dollars...” (11:03)

11. Looking Ahead: Adapting to Disruption

• Santanas’ Outlook for 2026
  • “It will continue to be very, very challenging. I think that we're going to see way more important disruptions happening and trading routes being kind of broken down. But shipping has always been very agile to adapt…we did everything. So it’s going to be fine.” (11:34)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Shipping and raw materials…become more and more relevant all the time.”
  — Stamatis Santanas (01:58)
• “The more places you avoid, the more diversions you have for the ships, the longer distances you make, and the more ships you need. So freight rates go up, unfortunately.”
  — Santanas (04:11)
• “In practical terms, I think global trade keeps going up every year after year and it's unstoppable.”
  — Santanas (06:06)
• “China has been producing 56% of the global steel production.”
  — Santanas (07:10)
• “The narrative in Davos, it’s all about the future of alliances, of infrastructure, real estate…defense.”
  — Santanas (10:03)
• “Shipping has always been very agile…So it’s going to be fine.”
  — Santanas (11:34)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Geopolitical instability vs. 2025: 01:46–01:58
• Commodity price surge & demand: 03:00–03:21
• Shipping route disruptions: 04:11–04:31
• Shipbuilding trends: 04:39–05:17
• US tariffs & future of trade: 06:06–06:26
• China’s dominance: 07:10–08:33
• Oil transport cycle: 09:00–09:43
• Davos takeaways: 10:03–10:45
• Middle East outlook: 11:03–11:24
• 2026 shipping prognosis: 11:34–11:56

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Tone and Language

The tone is pragmatic, focused, and anchored in real-world operational insights. Santanas brings a global perspective, balancing concern over current disruptions with the historic ability of shipping to adapt and rebound. The hosts keep the dialogue practical and news-driven, providing a comprehensive snapshot of the high-stakes interplay between trade and geopolitics as experienced on the high seas.

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Recommended for listeners wanting clear, first-hand insight into what’s happening in global logistics, commodities, and the economic shifts driven by world politics in 2026.

Transcript

[Marsh Representative]

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[Carol Massar]

You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Massar and Tim Stanvak on Bloomberg Radio. You may remember on Wednesday, United Airlines CEO Scott Kirby warned that geopolitical tensions risk disrupting what's been a pretty hot start to the year. Here's what he said to Bloomberg's Lisa Abramowicz, quote, we're the largest global airline from the US we're exposed to all levels that are all around the globe. He later noted it would cause short term pain, but his airline will, quote, stay focused on the long term.

[Tim Stenovec]

I have to say, it does feel like executives. We've talked about JP Morgan's Jamie Dimon, the conversation with David Rubenstein. When he talks about what could maybe, you know, create some problems within financial markets and he talks about like what's going on around the globe and geopolitics, we're increasingly hearing folks point to that.

[Carol Massar]

That's exactly what we want to talk about with Stomata Santanas chairman and chief executive officer of Synergy Maritime holdings and founder, chairman and CEO of United Maritime Corporation. The two firms together, they're micro caps, they're traded in the U.S. together, they have a total of 25 ships. They carry grains, wheat, corn, steel, copper, oil and more all over the world. Tomatoes is back here in the Bloomberg Interactive brokers studio. Welcome back.

[Stamatis Santanas]

Thank you. Nice to be here.

[Carol Massar]

We spoke to you last over the summer in July, and that was a time of geopolitical tension too, but it was a different type of geopolitical tension. Are things more or less stable in your view than they were then?

[Stamatis Santanas]

Well, they're certainly they're less stable. I mean, you have so many things going on around the world. You have disruptions, you have like potential wars, all these things happening. And you have all this new military drive that people need to start building things again, which is not just for real estate, but you need it for strategic reasons, defense and, and all that. So, you know, shipping and raw materials of steel, bauxite, iron ore and coal, they become more and more relevant all the time.

[Tim Stenovec]

So tell us what you're seeing. Like I remember doing a trip to India during the financial crisis and trying to understand, you know, you got a great view of this being an emerging market and driving somewhere in the middle of the night and seeing all the big trucks and really understanding the build and the moving of materials around. You have such a great vantage point of that. So with the stuff that's going on around the globe, whether it's from the White House, whether it's from other regions, whether it's China, what has shifted in terms of where the ships are going and where activity is happening and what's being moved around?

[Stamatis Santanas]

Well, first of all, you have a commodities rally, right? I mean, you have gold, you have silver, you have tin, you have copper, you have all these prices surging to these levels. And I strongly believe that you're going to see aluminum, you can have steel and all these things coming up a lot because demand is so strong for these products.

[Tim Stenovec]

So there's more movement of all of this.

[Stamatis Santanas]

I strongly believe you can have a lot of movement for that because it's not just a good to have real estate or a house, but it's strategic, it's defense, it's military. So you're going to have a lot of these things going on. On top of that, you also have the AI you need to upgrade the power grids, you need to create all these data centers and all these things require vast amounts of metals, you know, that we transport. So it's pretty much important these days.

[Carol Massar]

The geopolitical disruptions as far as what's happening out there while you're, while the ships are out there, have you had to make changes to routes as a result of any issues, as a result of countries military doing operations in certain places, we saw the disruptions around Venezuela, in that region just to commercial airlines, for example, when Nicolas Maduro was brought to the United States. Have you been affected by any of that?

[Stamatis Santanas]

Well, of course. I mean, Red Sea has been out of the question for more than a year now. Black Sea is out of the question because of missiles going on board ships. So we tend to avoid this kind of area. So the more places you avoid, the more diversions you have for the ships, the longer distances you make and the more ships you need. So freight rates go up, unfortunately.

[Tim Stenovec]

What are your biggest costs? Is it give us an idea. I mean, these ships are not cheap. Walk us through some of, of the dynamics or the financials here.

[Stamatis Santanas]

Well, inflation is everywhere, right? Building ship day has surged a lot because, you know, of all these raw materials you need to build the ships and then have fuel but fuel has been quite stable, I must say. Yeah, but building the ship has actually gotten way more expensive. That's how it is. And that's also strategic. I mean, China has been building a lot of ships recently and prices keep going up and up all the time. So, you know, the US at a certain point need to start building ships.

[Tim Stenovec]

Are you building.

[Stamatis Santanas]

We are. We, we are building some ships, yes. Okay, yes. In China and Japan you are. Yes, we are.

[Tim Stenovec]

But the US is not.

[Stamatis Santanas]

No. You don't see a lot of shipbuilding activity here?

[Carol Massar]

Well, the President hopes there will be some military shipbuilding activity here.

[Stamatis Santanas]

We all hope that there's going to be some shipbuilding activity here as well, but we're just going to wait and see when that's going to take place.

[Carol Massar]

Do you think the US can build the ships that the President wants to see?

[Stamatis Santanas]

Well, there's nothing that or that you want to buy. There's nothing that the US cannot do, to be honest. It's just going to be a matter of cost and time. Yeah. So we're just going to wait and see.

[Carol Massar]

Hey, speaking of that, in the US over the last year we've seen a push toward bringing manufacturing back to the United States. The tariffs that have gone into effect, the tariffs that have been used as a cudgel against countries to get what the President wants. In your view, does that eventually lead to fewer goods traded between countries, to fewer. The less of a need for your services?

[Stamatis Santanas]

It should, but it doesn't happen. Global trade has been going up year after year. You have all these container ships actually being ordered and built and everything. So in theory that's a very correct statement. But in practical terms, I think global trade keeps going up every year after year and it's unstoppable.

[Carol Massar]

Why? Why is it unstoppable?

[Stamatis Santanas]

Because you need infrastructure. So in order to create. It's not just consumer goods. Consumer goods is only a part of shipping. Right. All the heavy things, which is all oil, oil products, metals, iron ore, coal, bauxite and all that. I mean that keep increasing year after year all the time.

[Tim Stenovec]

What's the biggest part of your business in terms of the stuff that you move around?

[Stamatis Santanas]

It's mostly iron ore and we do a lot of bauxite and coal. So we move around 20 million tonnes of raw materials every year. And that's a lot. Long hauls.

[Tim Stenovec]

That is long hauls. I am also curious about in terms of trade routes, I think, you know, with the US kind of pushing back and tariffs and so on and so forth. Are you seeing More trade just in general between China and other parts of the like. Where are you seeing increases? Where are you seeing decreases?

[Stamatis Santanas]

Well, China has been increasing their imports in iron ore and coal. Year after year. China has been producing 56% of the global steel production. So wherever you need steel, you need to get it mostly from China. That's how it works. You have about $5 trillion of committed infrastructure projects globally. So that's a huge amount of steel you're going to require in the next few years, excluding data centers and everything associated with that. So you're going to require a lot of steel in the next few years. And China has been very well prepared in importing a lot of raw materials.

[Tim Stenovec]

But I think we're also. What that's fascinating because it's just a reminder of supply chains where things are right. But what about in terms of the pushback? Is there more trade between China and Europe? I think we're trying to assess what are the relationships around the world. And the US Continues, it feels like, some say, to alienate certainly its allies in other parts of the world. But is that really happening from what you see in terms of the activity?

[Stamatis Santanas]

Well, all this tariff talk and all this port use and everything that has been in discussions for the last year or so, that hasn't really slowed down China at all. China has been importing big quantities of iron ore and bauxite and all that. So year after year they continue to increase their production of steel and aluminum and all the strategic metals that you're going to require for the future. So, yes, China is still a very vital part of the global commodities and especially the metals.

[Carol Massar]

We're speaking with Stamatis Santanas. He's the chairman and CEO of Synergy Maritime holdings and founder, chairman and CEO of United Maritime Corporation. You transport oil around the world?

[Stamatis Santanas]

We transport mostly iron ore, coal and bauxite. That's what we do.

[Carol Massar]

But also. But also, yeah, we used to have.

[Stamatis Santanas]

A few oil transportation ships, tankers, but we sold them a few years ago.

[Carol Massar]

At the peak, would you get back into it?

[Stamatis Santanas]

The answer is yes. At the next part of the cycle we will definitely get back into tankers.

[Carol Massar]

What part of the cycle?

[Stamatis Santanas]

Well, it's all times high right now, so asset values and freight rates are at this peak of all peaks. So we will wait for the right timing the cycle. Maybe it's going to be next year or the year after, and we're definitely going to get back into that.

[Carol Massar]

Do you see Venezuela as an opportunity for you to ship oil from to.

[Stamatis Santanas]

Other parts of the world, Venezuela. It's still not a big part of the transportation of oil globally. They only do like a few hundred thousand barrels per day. So that's not really important and vital right now. Maybe it's going to get to a point in the next few years, and I'm hopeful they will. But so far, we don't really see them as making any material difference in seaborne oil.

[Tim Stenovec]

You're just back from Davos?

[Stamatis Santanas]

Yes.

[Tim Stenovec]

Talk to us about what you heard on the ground, what you thought was interesting. We just talked with our David Westin of Wall Street Week, and you know how so much of what the conversations evolved, once again around President Donald Trump. But I'm just curious, your take on the ground and what you were hearing and seeing.

[Stamatis Santanas]

Well, it's all about infrastructure, it's all about defense, it's all about military spending. It's all about alliances. So people don't talk so much about, you know, diversion and inclusiveness and all these things anymore. They talk about strategic stuff. So it's completely different. I mean, the narrative in Davos, it's all about the future of alliances, of infrastructure, real estate. I was at dinner with Eric Trump the other day, and he'll talk about, you know, about the projects of the family in the Middle east and how spectacular that he expects to be in the next few years. So you hear a lot about real estate, infrastructure and, of course, defense and alliances. That's what you hear.

[Tim Stenovec]

What are you doing, like, between the, you know, with the Middle east that you can tell? I mean, it just seems like they're certainly looking to diversify their economy, investing in sports, investing in lots of different projects, technology and so on and so forth. How do you see it in terms of what they're doing and the activity?

[Stamatis Santanas]

The Middle east is a spectacular place. That's all I can say. I mean, the amount of development you see there, everything's modern, everything's new, everything's in huge scale. So I'm very hopeful that the next few years, the Middle east, especially the UAE and Saudi Arabia, will continue to be investing hundreds of billions of dollars into these beautiful big buildings.

[Tim Stenovec]

Stamatis just got 30 seconds left here. A word or two that you would describe the global economy right now or for 2026 as you see it.

[Stamatis Santanas]

Well, it will continue to be very, very challenging. I think that we're going to see way more important disruptions happening and trading routes being kind of broken down. But shipping has always been very agile to adopt in whatever geopolitical or what have you changes has happened. We've been to Covid. We did everything. So it's going to be fine.

[Tim Stenovec]

We know you've been on the road a lot, and I know you're headed home. But thanks so much for finding time and stopping by our studios. Stamata Santanas. He is Chairman and CEO of Seen Energy Maritime holdings and also of the United Maritime Corporation, Synergy.

[Marsh Representative]

Forgive me.

[Tim Stenovec]

Maritime holdings, this is Bloomberg.