Trump Calls on Allies to Seize Hormuz as Frustration Mounts

Summary

Bloomberg Businessweek Podcast Summary

Episode: Trump Calls on Allies to Seize Hormuz as Frustration Mounts
Date: March 31, 2026
Hosts: Carol Massar & Tim Stenovec
Main Contributors: Jennifer Welch, Peter Atwater, Lauren Grush, Stu Leonard Jr.

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the geopolitical and economic tensions stemming from the ongoing US-Iran war, President Trump's calls for international action in the Strait of Hormuz, and the ensuing global market reactions. The hosts also examine the impact of these events on everyday Americans—most notably via rising energy prices and food costs—featuring insights from economic experts, a supermarket CEO, and a special segment on NASA’s Artemis moon mission.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Geopolitical Escalation: Strait of Hormuz and US-Iran Tensions

• The episode opens with an analysis of the Biden administration’s (referring to Trump post-2024) discussions and strategy to potentially “reopen” the Strait of Hormuz.
• Key Point: The administration weighs whether a push into Hormuz could further escalate the conflict and push it past self-imposed timelines (04:00–05:00).
  • Quote: "A mission to reopen the Strait of Hormuz would push the war beyond his timeline of four to six weeks." – Jennifer Welch (03:42)
• Markets and global leaders are watching for signals of de-escalation or further entrenchment.
• Iran's Perspective: Iranian statements suggest willingness to end the conflict, but only under conditions deemed non-starters by the US. The issue of Iranian control over the Strait is a key sticking point (05:01–07:05).

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2. Economic Impact: US and Global Markets

• The economic fallout is dissected—immediate impacts (soaring gas and energy prices), potential for long-term inflation, and global interconnectivity.
• Immediate Effects:
  • American consumers feel "immediate effect on household income" from high gas prices.
  • Asian economies, heavily reliant on Middle Eastern energy, are hardest hit and forced into conservation measures.
  • US is more shielded as a net energy producer but is not immune (06:01).
• The "New Normal" for Oil:
  • The future cost of oil may remain persistently higher depending on Iranian leverage over Hormuz and the imposition of new tolls on shipping (07:05).
• Markets Response: Despite war and high oil prices, US stock indices are rallying, suggesting markets are hopeful or ignoring certain risks (15:03).

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3. Societal Implications: Inequality & "Powerlessness"

• Peter Atwater discusses how spiraling costs most severely affect those at the economic bottom and warns of potential for unrest reminiscent of the Arab Spring.
  • Quote: "If the word of the year for 2025 was uncertainty, the word of the year for 2026 increasingly is powerlessness." (10:37)
• Disconnection between upper and lower economic classes in understanding lived experience.
  • Quote: "We live in a Downton Abbey economy where those above don't see what's happening below." – Peter Atwater (12:17)

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4. Microeconomics: The Grocery Store Perspective

• Stu Leonard Jr., CEO of the Stu Leonard's supermarket chain, details pressure on margins and the challenges of holding down prices despite supply shocks and rising energy costs.
  • Retailer Response: Most grocers are “eating” some of the cost increases instead of raising prices, but margin pressure is intense (33:54).
  • Supply Chain Snags: Weather events, higher fuel and fertilizer costs affecting produce especially—short-term price increases are "inevitable" (36:27).
  • Shifting Consumer Choices: Shoppers are "sticking to lists" and trading down to cheaper proteins like pork over beef. (37:59)
  • Quote: "We're family owned, and we don't want to raise prices. So right now what's happening is we're eating a lot of it." – Stu Leonard Jr. (33:54)

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5. Global Reputation Risk

• Atwater voices concern that the US could face blame for sustained high global prices, impacting business and tourism.
  • Quote: "I worry about the implications to American businesses that operate globally. I worry about what this means for American tourists." (15:20)

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6. NASA's Artemis Program: A Moonshot Amid Turbulence

• Lauren Grush explains the rationale, challenges, and strategic importance of NASA’s Artemis moon return program.
  • Rationale: Moving beyond low Earth orbit is both a scientific and strategic imperative, especially amid a new space race with China (22:17–25:41).
  • Financial Criticism: Artemis faces skepticism over taxpayer cost ($93B to 2025) and slow progress. New NASA Administrator Jared Isaacman proposes to "ramp up the launch cadence" and deliver on promises (26:36–28:07).
  • Public/Private Mix: Artemis uses a hybrid of legacy contractors (Boeing, Lockheed) and new space companies (SpaceX, Blue Origin), testing different models for major exploration (29:09).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Geopolitics & Markets:

  • "The markets will be concerned until [the war]’s over." – Jamie Dimon (03:07)
  • "Iran has figured out they have major leverage...that they can exercise control over [the Strait of Hormuz] at relatively low cost." – Jennifer Welch (07:05)

• On Inequality:

  • "If the word of the year for 2025 was uncertainty, the word of the year for 2026 is powerlessness." – Peter Atwater (10:37)
  • "We live in a Downton Abbey economy where those above don't see what's happening below." – Peter Atwater (12:17)

• On Grocer Margins:

  • "We're eating a lot of it. Our margins are going to be thinner this holiday than they were last holiday." – Stu Leonard Jr. (33:54)
  • "Try to stick some jelly beans in your kids basket [instead of chocolate]." – Stu Leonard Jr. (35:55)

• On Space Exploration:

  • "The moon provides a really attractive place to send people...it's the next logical step." – Lauren Grush (22:17)
  • "There's also discussion of the Moon as the ultimate high ground...the farther you are in space, the better vantage point you could have." – Lauren Grush (25:41)

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Important Timestamps

| MM:SS | Segment | |-----------|---------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:32 | Jamie Dimon's statements on communicating through TV networks | | 03:38 | Bloomberg’s Jennifer Welch on the White House Iran strategy | | 05:16 | Economic impacts: Gas prices, US & Asia | | 07:05 | The future of the Strait of Hormuz & oil prices | | 09:19 | Peter Atwater on the longer-term fallout, K-shaped economies | | 10:37 | Powerlessness as the theme of 2026 | | 12:17 | Societal disconnect and implications for economic stability | | 15:19 | Atwater: Why he’s not buying US stocks now | | 19:18 | NASA Artemis segment (with Lauren Grush) | | 22:17 | Why go back to the moon | | 26:36 | NASA’s challenge: public trust and value for money | | 29:09 | Old vs. New space contracting in Artemis | | 33:30 | Stu Leonard Jr.: grocery margins and holding price lines | | 36:27 | Produce price jumps—supply chain woes | | 37:59 | Consumer behavior—trading down, sticking to lists | | 39:18 | Message to policymakers |

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Episode Flow & Tone

The discussion is direct, data-driven, and policy-aware, with a focus on real-world impacts for businesses and consumers. The hosts and guests stress the gravity of the geopolitical moment and its interconnectedness with global economic health, while also exploring the innovative frontiers of space strategy and the day-to-day struggles of both retailers and consumers. The mood is serious but pragmatic, with several moments of candor and relatability, especially in the grocery and NASA segments.

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Summary Takeaways

• The US-Iran war and threats to the Strait of Hormuz cast a long shadow over energy markets and global inflation, with ripple effects felt most acutely by lower-income individuals and the international community.
• Markets are volatile yet oddly optimistic, perhaps ignoring geopolitical risks.
• Retailers like Stu Leonard’s are absorbing higher costs to protect consumers but cannot do so indefinitely.
• The Artemis moon mission showcases US ambitions, anxieties, and the complex interplay of government and private enterprise even in uncharted arenas like space.
• Societal divides are widening, with a growing sense of "powerlessness" among those most exposed to economic shocks—a risk that goes beyond economics into social stability.

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For listeners seeking a deep dive into the economic, political, and social consequences of global instability—blended with a look skyward at America's next moonshot—this episode offers rich, timely analysis and first-hand perspectives.

Transcript

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[Carol Massar]

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[Tim Stenovec]

hey, when you want to speak to President Trump, some might say you go on networks that the President is believed

[Francine Lacqua]

to watch a lot.

[Jennifer Welch]

Reminds me of Makes sense about a year ago. Yeah, Jamie Dimon did that interview with Maria Bartiromo on Fox Business. Just around the tariff time.

That's right.

Trying to get a message to the President.

[Tim Stenovec]

Yeah, and I don't know, maybe that happened again today and maybe that was what was behind what JPMorgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimon had to say. Obviously very closely watched individual on Wall street we know this. And here's what he said earlier today on FOX Looks.

[Stu Leonard Jr.]

The markets are unpredictable and it's hard to for me to tell you exactly what. But I think they're just looking at is there a chance something can go wrong now? We should all hope nothing goes wrong. We should all hope that these bad people are, you know, that we win this thing and clean up the straits and that Iran is no longer a threat to everybody. And but they're, you know, the markets will be concerned until it's over.

[Tim Stenovec]

Yep. And the read on the markets right now feels like, well, maybe we are closer to it being over. But who says we've got to watch Devil's in the Details, as we said that, of course, Jamie Dimon, CEO of Morgan JP Morgan Chase, earlier today on FOX News.

[Jennifer Welch]

Well, an update on what our team is hearing and what the White House is doing when it comes to the US War in Iran, trying to gather the war with the global economy. I want to bring in Bloomberg Economics chief Geo Economics analyst Jennifer Welch. She joins us from the Bloomberg News Washington, D.C. bureau. Jenny, the Wall Street Journal did report late yesterday that President Trump and his aides assessed that a mission to reopen the Strait of Hormuz would push the war beyond his timeline of four to six weeks. He later told the New York Post the US Is not going to be there too much longer. And then we have the headlines coming from Iran as well. Is it indeed looking like from your perch that this war will soon be coming to an end?

Well, I think it depends on how we define coming to an end. I think the unfortunate reality is that some of these statements, including from President Trump, are very similar to statements he was making just a few weeks ago when he said that the war was very complete and that it would end very soon. And yet we are still in a live and very intense conflict with more US Troops moving into the region and likely options for escalation on his desk. And I think when you look at the statements from Iran's president, well, first, I think it's important to note who they came from. They are not from the supreme leader himself and ultimately it will be up to him. And second, that there is a predominant focus on the first part of that message of Iran is ready to end the war, but less attention, I think, from markets on the second part, which is really important, which is if certain conditions are met and those conditions are the same terms Iran laid out last week, at least one of which is going to be completely dead on arrival with the United States Jenny, you know,

[Tim Stenovec]

the other thing, you know, I'm just going to go back to Jamie Dimon earlier on FOX today that the markets will be concerned until the war is over. I get it. We certainly see that play out in terms of headlines on market moves, generally speaking. But you know, there's some debate about the economic impact of the war on the US and really the global implications. Madam Christine Lagarde had some thoughts about that when it came to some comments from the Treasury Secretary Scott Besson. But Dimon said our economy is so big and complex and integrate integrated and it's doing well. It's been doing well for years. It's prosperous. So this is not going to have an immediate it's one effect. Is he right? Are you hearing more about the war and a longer term impact on the US Economy and the global economy for that matter?

[Jennifer Welch]

Well, certainly, as you're highlighting there, there are going to be different effects across the world. If you look at, for example, Asian economies that are far more dependent on the Middle east for their energy sources, they are already having to make major changes in the way that they're workplaces are operating. Even government workers are operating in order to conserve energy. They are looking and scrambling for resources elsewhere. The United States as a net energy producer is a little bit more cushioned from the blow. But I think certainly for people who are filling up their tanks at the pump right now and looking at much higher gas prices, there is already an immediate effect on household income, certainly. And the longer this war lasts, the more intense the implications are going to be for every economy, including the United States, but especially for economies around the world that are more dependent on sourcing energy, both gas and oil from the Middle East.

Is there a floor, Jenny, to oil after this war wraps up, a floor that is higher than, you know, 60 to $65 a barrel that we saw before the war.

I think a key consideration is going to be what happens in the Strait of Hormuz after the war ends, if it does formally. Iran has now figured out that they have this major leverage over the Strait, that they can exercise control over it at relatively low cost. And that's probably a card that they're going to seek to play. In fact, one of the key terms of their call for peace that they put out last week is recognition of Iranian sovereignty over the state of Hormuz. That's something the United States won't accept. It's something that probably many Gulf countries don't want to accept either. But if they were to try and make good on that threat and see it become the new normal even after the war ends, then I think the risk is you're either going to see persistent risk of disruption in the Strait of Hormuz if Iran seeks to leverage that card again, or they're going to try and impose some sort of toll or other fee on shippers, in which case there'll be a question about what will the United States do to impose sanctions in response to that.

[Tim Stenovec]

Yeah, so many. And we'll see if we get any, you know, further detail from President Trump when he's, I believe, holding an event at the White House at 5:00'. Clock. And I think it's been open to press. So we'll see whether or not it's more tactical plays or something more definitive. But certainly we'll all be watching. Jenny, thank you as always. Jenny Welch is Bloomberg Economics chief Geo Economics analyst right there in our D.C. bureau.

[Jennifer Welch]

Well, let's stay on the economy. As Carol mentioned, Christine Lagarde challenging Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant's optimism that the Iran war's economic fallout will be short lived. That's according to people familiar with the matter. Madame Lagarde telling Besant and other G7 officials, Carol, that the effects of the war would be felt for a long time because so much has already been destroyed.

[Tim Stenovec]

Got to say, so much to talk about. Great to have back with us Peter Atwater. He is president of Financial Insights and adjunct lecturer of economics at the College of William and Mary and he joins us from Williamsburg, Virginia. He's also the author of the Confidence Charting a Path from Chaos to Clarity. It's a book that digs deep into decision making. Peter, so good to have you back with us. It's been an interesting 2026 to say the least. Madame Lagarde is concerned about the global economy. Is, is she right about the economic fallout from the war in Iran? More likely to be felt longer than shorter, as U.S. treasury Secretary Scott Besant has indicated. What's your view on this?

[Peter Atwater]

So, Carol, thanks again for having me. I think she's absolutely right and I'm particularly concerned for those countries that have K shaped economies that are even more distorted than the United States. What we know is that this is a crisis that is hitting those at the bottom disproport today. It can be felt in terms of energy, but we know that as energy prices rise, fertilizer prices go along with it, which means that food prices will be next. And one of the things that I pay very close attention to is the ability of those at the bottom to feed themselves. And we know that that's a growing issue. And I would hate to see a repeat of the Arab Spring, you know,

[Tim Stenovec]

and we're going to talk food prices to Stu Leonard, right?

[Jennifer Welch]

Yeah. Stu Leonard's going to be joining us in a few minutes and what he's going to talk to us about is what he's seeing at his grocery stores in the northeast of the United States. And I wonder, Peter, how what we saw with the Arab Spring and a K shaped economy in other countries, how you think about that in the context of the US and the US's K shaped economy and the fact that there are so many people in the United States who are struggling to get by and what happens if we see prolonged higher energy prices for longer?

[Peter Atwater]

Yeah, last, last November, Tim, the headlines were all about an affordability crisis. That crisis hasn't gone away. In fact, it's only gotten worse. And we've seen that in terms of individuals choosing because they can't afford health care to go without it. And now they're paying more at the pump. And there comes a point at which those at the bottom can't resolve the financial crisis that they face. I think if the word of the year for 2025 was uncertainty, the word of the year for 2026 increasingly is powerlessness. And that's what those at the bottom are experiencing. And I don't think that those above have any clear sense of the challenge that those at the bottom now face in the United States. And I think that it's not about putting off a vacation, which some of the media suggest is the choice that's being made. No, it's, it's a question of what can I afford? Can I afford to put food on the table tonight?

[Tim Stenovec]

And can I just say that that was a post of yours on X that caught my attention. It was a headline as gas prices approach $4 a gallon. We're there right now. Americans Rethink vacations. And you said specifically, and this is something, Tim, that really just caught my attention from Peter, is that, you know, those on the arm of the case, you've really spent some time with those at the bottom. Like there's this real disconnect in people understanding everything.

[Jennifer Welch]

Why is that? Why is bridging that disconnect so important? And not just important because of, in your view of the society that we live in. But what's the economic argument, the economic case for understanding what happens in another person's shoes?

[Peter Atwater]

Well, I think, particularly in this economy, I don't think those above truly appreciate the dependence that they now have on, on those at the bottom. In an economy where everything is delivered, where everything is prepared by others. I think that we, we live in a, in a Downton Abbey economy where those above don't see what's happening below and they don't appreciate every element of their condition is dependent on a growing population that there, that is invisible.

[Tim Stenovec]

You know, it's interesting and we've got a live chat and one of our producers CC sending us, sharing with us some information. It had to do with comments, Peter, that Jamie Dimon said earlier and forgive us because I don't have the exact quote in front of me, but kind of this idea that yep, gas prices are higher but people still have jobs and they have money to spend is that again, kind of and forgive me, I don't have the exact quote. So I don't want to get anybody in trouble or get me in trouble because it's Jamie Dimon. But I mean that idea that okay, you might be working but you're just, it's just not enough.

[Peter Atwater]

It's not enough. And appreciate again, those at the bottom have no choice but to go to their job. There is no work from home alternative. And so the impact is immediate and it's also visible I can't emphasize enough the kryptonite like impact that rising gas prices have on, on those at the bottom that these big billboards that they pass every day has a really pernicious effect.

[Tim Stenovec]

Does it, does it matter? What if, what if President Trump comes out at five o', clock, Peter, and says okay, the war is over? Does things change dramatically for, for people in America, especially those where those higher gas prices really do have an impact,

[Peter Atwater]

Peter So it may change in the short run to the extent that the markets now respond. I mean one of the things we've seen is almost a minute by minute correlation between market prices and prices at the pump. And so we could see some short term improvement and that, that would certainly be wonderful to see. But the, the rat is now in the snake and we haven't seen how that flows through how higher oil prices and shortages of certain crude commodities now flows through the system. And as that happens, we're going to I think people will be surprised that the cost of living increase isn't temporary, but plays out over a much longer period of time.

[Stu Leonard Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Welch]

Barrel of Brent still $104 a barrel. Crude WTI crude, the US benchmark still over $100 a barrel. Yet the S&P 500 up 2.5% the NASDAQ Composite up 3.4%. Today, we're seeing really the risk on rally. Would you be buying US Stocks right now?

[Carol Massar]

No.

[Peter Atwater]

And the reason I wouldn't be buying is I don't think yet that investors have fully appreciated what I think is today the biggest consequence of the war. And that is the degree to which America will be blamed by others around the globe for a much higher cost of living. And I worry about the implications to American businesses that operate globally. I worry about what this means for American tourists. I think that we have unknowingly created a moment where there's a lot that America can and will be blamed for that is in no way reflected in current market prices.

[Tim Stenovec]

The heavy Tuesday. Peter Atwater, thank you so much. Always, always really appreciate it. Peter Atwater, president of Financial Insights, adjunct lecturer of economics at the College of William and Mary, joining us from Williamsburg, Virginia.

[Jennifer Welch]

Stay with us. More from Bloomberg businessweek Daily coming up after this.

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[Tim Stenovec]

Well, American astronauts last set foot on the moon back in 1972. More than half a century later, NASA is preparing to take a big step forward and get back there. This is today's Bloomberg Big Take. It's narrated by Lauren Grush. She's Bloomberg News space reporter. And the first voice you're going to hear, though is Artemis 2 pilot Victor Glover.

[Stu Leonard Jr.]

I think our generation appreciates having a program that now we get a chance

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to take our own moonshots, what we

[Tim Stenovec]

call great things that humans accomplish.

[Lauren Grush]

NASA's Artemis program is the space agency's ambitious mission to send humans back to the moon for the first time in more than half a century. The last time NASA sent humans to the moon, they were locked in a space race with the Soviet Union. This time, NASA wants to go back to the moon to save in order to learn how to live sustainably off of the lunar surface. Four stage engines prior to Artemis 2, NASA launched the Very first major mission in the Artemis program called Artemis I, which sent the Orion crew capsule around the moon to demonstrate that they could work without a crew on board. Now it's time to show that they can actually keep a crew alive while traveling to deep space.

[Carol Massar]

Our goal is get to the moon and get back four days out, four days back.

[Tim Stenovec]

We are going to do as much

[Jennifer Welch]

science as we can on the way

[Tim Stenovec]

and on the far side of the

[Jennifer Welch]

moon we're going to have maybe 45

[Tim Stenovec]

minutes where we're in a loss of calm with Earth and all we can

[Jennifer Welch]

do is just train our eyes on that moon's surface.

[Lauren Grush]

The entire Artemis program has come under significant criticism for how much time it's taking to build and how much money it's costing the taxpayer. There's an estimate that between 2012 and 2025, the Artemis program has cost roughly $93 billion. Despite the criticism, it does benefit from strong congressional support. Many of the programs that are needed for Artemis are spread across the entire United States and provide a lot of jobs for constituents. While the Artemis II mission is coming up, Artemis iii, Artemis iv, Artemis V are all a bit of open question marks at the moment. There's development that needs to happen for hardware, notably with the landers that will actually take the humans to the surface of the moon. NASA is pulling out all the stops with its contractors to ensure that a landing occurs no later than 2028. But it remains to be seen if that date will actually be possible.

[Tim Stenovec]

All right, of course, reporting this Alfred Bloomberg and whose narration you just heard, of course, is Lauren Grush. She is Bloomberg News space reporter. She joins us from NASA's Kennedy Space center in Florida. Ahead tomorrow's launch. Lauren, so good to have you here with Tim and myself here on Bloomberg. Gotta say, my dad, a former engineer, very involved in the first space race to get a man on the moon back in the 1960s. Here we are more than 40, 50 years afterwards and we're going back. Why is everybody going back to the moon?

[Lauren Grush]

Well, I think from one person that I spoke to, it's a place that we went and we've always wanted to go back. Ever since, you know, after the Apollo program, we've kind of been, I don't want to say stuck in low Earth orbit, but we've definitely much more focused on the space that is closer to home.

[Tim Stenovec]

Right.

[Lauren Grush]

We had the reusable space shuttle and then we created the International Space Station. And those two programs have been kind of the primary focus of NASA for the last few decades. But now there's kind of this idea that, you know, we've, we've been there and we've done that with low Earth orbit. We don't want to leave, but we want to keep going. And so I think the moon provides a really attractive place to send people. And, you know, kind of at the heart of NASA, they like to have a big flagship, you know, human spaceflight program to move the needle forward and so that, you know, the moon is the next logical step for us to go.

[Jennifer Welch]

Does it, Lawrence, set us up for a mission to Mars? Is that the next step following what Happens with Artemis too.

[Lauren Grush]

It's certainly something that they hope will allow us to learn more about what it will take to live on the surface of Mars. Right. So the Moon has a lot of advantages in that it's close and so we can potentially get there in a much shorter amount of time than it would take to get to Mars. It could serve as someplace a little bit like our outposts in Antarctica.

[Jennifer Welch]

Right.

[Lauren Grush]

We can send supplies there. We can bring people back a little more quickly if we need to. It still poses is quite a lot of challenges, but it will give us kind of this proving ground on what it will take to live off of another surface. And then we can take those lessons and then apply them to Mars living, which is going to be a much more substantial challenge because we will not be able to come and go between Mars very easily. And the communication delay between us and Mars also can become quite significant. So any astronauts that will live on the red planet will have to be much more autonomous than the ones that will be on the moon.

[Tim Stenovec]

You know what's interesting, Lauren, and it's not just the U.S. you guys highlight China and what they're doing and I'm assuming there might be other nations looking at it as well. But I just, you know, I think about the International Space Lab and there was kind of collaboration and joint. These are not inexpensive ventures, but by countries separately focusing on it, it sounds like it's important whether it leads to technological developments, whether it's. There's a weapon defense aspect of it. I mean, walk us through why this maybe bigger term, longer term is so important.

[Lauren Grush]

Oh, absolutely. I mean, there are so many different reasons and benefits that are invoked as to why we go back to the Moon. You know, I kind of laid out the existential reason, but you know, there's been discussion about jumpstarting the so called lunar economy. So finding ways to make money off the moon, potentially those will probably be in service to the space world. So making it easier to live near the moon. Maybe not necessarily applications for back on Earth right away, but we can find that out when we get there.

[Tim Stenovec]

Right.

[Lauren Grush]

You also talked about China. There's a lot of discussion about whether we should be the ones to get back to the moon before China lands its astronauts there. There's a lot of concern about China potentially making it more difficult for us to expl the moon in the ways that we want. If they were to set up some kind of, you know, perimeter, obviously that is a very, you know, long term scare, but that is what is invoked as to why we need to get there. And then there's also discussion of the Moon as the ultimate high ground, as it were. So, you know, the farther you are in space, you know, the better vantage point you could have with assets in orbit around Earth. So lots of discussion about, you know, why we need to get back, what we'll do when we get there. But first we just need to get there. And that's taking. That's taking a bit of time, as you can tell.

[Jennifer Welch]

And NASA is in a moment of truth. It really needs to prove itself and prove that the money that it's spent on this is of good use. You noted in the Bloomberg Originals piece that we started with, Lauren, that there have been a lot of detractors. And you showed a Bloomberg opinion piece from a couple years ago that said that this is a giant waste of taxpayer money. What's the position that NASA finds itself in right now, and how does that compare to the first space race when and how NASA was looked at not just by lawmakers, but by Americans?

[Lauren Grush]

Yeah, absolutely. I think NASA is certainly faced with needing to show that it can execute on these ambitious programs. You know, the, the rocket and the capsule that are flying potentially tomorrow have been in development well over a decade now. Had their first flight together back in 2022, an uncrewed mission, and here we are in 2026. That's a big gap between those two flights. And so there's a lot of criticism about how slow the project has been, how much money, you know, each time they delay or there's, you know, another year that goes by that costs more money to keep the programs going. And so there's been many cost overruns, billions of dollars over budget. And so at some point, people have loaded, canceling. At this point, I think they're trying to show, okay, let's take the vehicles that we have developed and accelerate. So there's a lot of enthusiasm now, especially with the new administrator, Jared Isaacman, to ramp up the launch cadence for these missions to go more quickly and to do even more ambitious things with the money that they have put into, invested into this program. He's called for a lot of new change, a lot of really ambitious goals. And so, you know, there's not a long time to get those things done. So we'll see if we can actually accomplish them during his time as the administrator.

[Tim Stenovec]

You know what's interesting too, Lauren, you know, you've got Boeing involved, Lockheed Martin, like, you're kind of traditional iconic defense companies and space companies, if you will, but it's interesting. We have seen from when my dad was involved, that was all government work, you know, government contracts. But working for the government. Now you've got kind of the private space exploration industry, whether it's Elon Musk, whether it's Jeff Bezos. Why not? Some might say, why not just leave it to the private sector to figure this out? Just got about a minute left.

[Lauren Grush]

Sure. Well, that's what's so interesting about Artemis, right? It's a bit of a mashup of the old and new way of doing space. So you mentioned Boeing and Lockheed. Their contracts are very much the old NASA way. NASA oversees them, pays the entire bill and then owns the vehicles when they're done. But the lunar landers that are being developed for Artemis from SpaceX and Blue Origin, they're much more outsourced with NASA putting in partial investment money. But then they will the companies will own those vehicles when they are done. There are two conflicting approaches and it still remains to be seen whether one is the better way or the other. So I think we'll have to revisit that question later on down the road.

[Tim Stenovec]

Road 20 seconds. Pretty cool down there right now.

[Lauren Grush]

It's actually, you know, I come to Florida often for these launches. The weather is pristine and I can't complain. And that's not always the case when I come here. So I'm looking forward to it.

[Tim Stenovec]

Fingers crossed for tomorrow's launch. All right, Lauren, thank you so much. Lauren Grosch, appreciate it. Bloomberg News space reporter from NASA's Kennedy Space center in Florida.

[Jennifer Welch]

Stay with us. More from Bloomberg businessweek Daily coming up after this.

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[Tim Stenovec]

the news whenever you want it with Bloomberg News Now. I'm Amy Morris and I'm Karen Mossman, here to tell you about our new On Demand News report delivered right to your podcast feed. Bloomberg News now is a short 5 minute audio report on the day's top stories. Episodes are published throughout the day with the latest information and data to keep you informed. Yes, there are other products like this from a variety of news organizations, but they usually rerun their radio newscasts throughout the day. That's not what we do. We create customized episodes that can only be heard on Bloomberg News now. And we don't wait an hour to publish breaking news. When news breaks, we'll have an episode up in your podcast feed within minutes. So you're always getting the latest stories and developments. Get the reporting and the context from Bloomberg's 3,000 journalists and analysts. We're all over the world. Listen to the latest from Bloomberg News now on Apple, Spotify or anywhere you listen.

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[Tim Stenovec]

A Bloomberg Intelligence team has been thinking about certainly the cost of things. Cost of when we go to the grocery store, specifically noting that Easter seasonal candy sales are tracking toward a roughly 5% decline unless late season demand materially over delivers. If demand remains muted, a drop of up to 9% is possible. Adult self treating is broadening the holiday and I didn't even know that that was a thing. What is that?

[Jennifer Welch]

Self care. I guess it's like when you buy stuff for yourself instead of when I

[Tim Stenovec]

say honey, I'm going off to do errands. Self treating is broadening the holiday and could support a stronger finish. But shoppers growing tendency to wait for markdowns is making upside harder to monetize. So we wanted to get a read on the consumer.

[Jennifer Welch]

We had to Stu leon in Norwalk, Connecticut and to the President and CEO of the company, Stu Leonard Jr. Who joins us. Stu, always good to catch up with you. I want to talk about the consumer and in general how the consumer is doing. But but first I just want to get an update from you about how you are adjusting prices as a result of higher energy costs. Are you seeing them affect the way you're pricing at Stu Leonard's?

[Stu Leonard Jr.]

It's wild and crazy as far as the food business goes. You know, first of all, retailers don't want to raise prices. I mean, you can drive around town, gas stations that have 399A gallon, there's lines at them. The ones that have 409, there's no line. So we don't want to raise prices. And one of the things we're doing is holding our prices. Then Easter prices this year are about the same. We're in a tough spot right now because the customer is like everybody listening, right? You're up to here. You got your own personal energy costs going up. Gasoline's up, your cost is up and food on top of that is up. So it's pretty tough out there. And here we are, you know, we're on a thin margin business, we're family owned and we don't want to raise prices. So right now what's happening is basically we're eating a lot of it and, and our margins are going to be thinner this holiday than they were last holiday.

[Tim Stenovec]

Stuart, I'm glad you went right there. I mean, we talk about the supermarket world and you're right, your margins are so thin. I mean, how long can you, can you do that to help out your customers, not raise prices, but then kind of eat it, if you will? When it comes to margins, how long can you do that?

[Stu Leonard Jr.]

Well, you know what, I think this whole thing with the fuel prices in the economy is temporary. I mean, did I hear right that the stock market's up and oil's down today?

[Jennifer Welch]

Yes.

[Stu Leonard Jr.]

What, what happened out there? You know, so I think we're going to, you know, get things settled down a little bit and you're going to see energy and fuel prices come down in the future. So we're just going to hold on and try to protect the customer. Our job is to feed families with the best stuff at the best price and we're going to keep doing that at Stu Leonard's.

[Jennifer Welch]

When you look out across what you offer at Stu Leonard's right now, Stu, what are you seeing affected the most by higher costs? What are you having to beat the biggest margin on?

[Stu Leonard Jr.]

You see these little guys right here? These are chocolate. Right now there's a big drought and chocolate prices are up. You know, just your normal Easter candy now has gone up. So I would recommend try to stick some jelly beans in your kids basket.

[Jennifer Welch]

But what about produce, fresh fruits? The stuff that, you know, is really. The prices change constantly because, you know, how much a gallon of diesel costs really affects transportation and really throughout the entire supply chain.

[Stu Leonard Jr.]

And fuel touches every aspect of the farming industry. I was just talking to one of our farmers down in Florida on the West Coast. I know you just talked to your Cape Canaveral reporter there on the East Coast. He said weather was good. He's telling me they had a big cold snap down there. It's the worst his family has seen in 15 to 20 years. He's got to replant all of his crops. The price of vegetables is going to go up from Florida temporarily right now. And you know what he said to me? I got tractors, I got to put my fuel in it. I got fertilizer I got to bring in. He said, everything I touch seems to go up 50%. Wow. So you're going to see your vegetable prices go up a little bit right now. Unfortunately, not to that extreme, you know, but I think he was being a little. A little dramatic there. But we'll. We'll work it out. And then you see other things that are coming down. You know, salmon's down a little bit. You know, this is your. Your, you know, mother. This is your big selling item, the Easter ham right there. That price is 3.99 a pound. I mean, it's a great, you know, that's a low price for protein right now. And, you know, you look at beef is up in the high teens right now. And, you know, one thing we're seeing customers doing, Me personally, too, instead of eating a steak, I'm eating a pork chop. It's a third of the price. So I think we're seeing customers shift a little bit. We're seeing them also. They got a shopping list, you know.

[Jennifer Welch]

Yeah.

[Stu Leonard Jr.]

And they're sticking to it. You know, we're trying to demo me. I'm standing next to a basket of donuts right now. We're trying to get people to buy more donuts. Come and taste the donuts. You don't want to put that extra product in your cart right now. It's going to make your grocery bill go up. So stay away from our demos. You know, even though I shouldn't say that.

[Tim Stenovec]

Hey, hey, stubborn.

[Jennifer Welch]

I love the honesty.

[Tim Stenovec]

Listen, what about, you know, my mom always said I had champagne taste. So I want to ask you if I want filet mignon for Easter or I want a lobster. What is that going to cost me?

[Stu Leonard Jr.]

You know what? Our filet mignon steaks are going to be the same price, and I think we're like around 60, 99 a pound for them right now. I talked to one of our ranchers out in Kansas, and he said that, you know, what happened to herd sizes are the lowest they've ever been in 50 years. So it takes a couple of years to really harvest, to grow and harvest cattle.

[Jennifer Welch]

Cattle.

[Stu Leonard Jr.]

He's starting to populate his. His younger inventory right now with more cattle. So I think you're going to see that change over the next year or two, and I think, you know, I'm optimistic. I think you're going to see beef prices come back down in the low teens again.

[Jennifer Welch]

What's the message that you'd have for policymakers right now? You know, a lot of what they decide affects the different parts of your industry. Stu, what message do you have for that?

[Stu Leonard Jr.]

Boy, oh, boy. You mean policy in Washington?

[Jennifer Welch]

Yeah.

[Stu Leonard Jr.]

You know, I look at. I'm a. I'm a retailer here in Connecticut, New York and New Jersey. I don't know if I know how to play all those political games that are going on. I don't quite understand it. The only thing I know is that the people pushing the shopping cart through our store just want to see lower prices. And I think. I think, you know, if I was a leader in that thing, I'd want to do whatever I could to help that out. And we'll see. I think we're. We're in a temporary blip right now, and I'm hoping a lot of these economic issues will get worked out and prices will come down. Hey, you know what's really hot right now is tick tock. Tick tock. We're like, tick tock. It's amazing if something comes out on TikTok. Yeah, we had that. We had that butter ice cream cone where you dip an ice cream cone. I saw it right like now, now look what's hot. You see these things? Are they like. They're strawberries dipped in with chocolate dripped on.

[Jennifer Welch]

All right, stew, we save some for us.

[Tim Stenovec]

You are great for TikTok. I want one of those. Stu Leonard Jr. President and CEO of Stu Leonard's.

[Carol Massar]

This is the Bloomberg Business Week daily podcast available on Apple, Spotify and anywhere else you get. Your podcasts listen live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5pm Eastern on Bloomberg.com, the iHeartRadio app, TuneIn, and the Bloomberg Business app. You can also watch us live Every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg terminal.

[Francine Lacqua]

If you follow markets, you know the value of long term thinking. You plan, you diversify, you prepare for volatility. But in life, even the best strategies can't prevent every bad day a fire, a loss, a disruption that demands immediate attention. When that happens, what matters isn't just what you planned. It's who shows up. That's where Cincinnati Insurance comes in. For more than 75 years, they've helped individuals and businesses navigate life's toughest moments with care, expertise and personal attention. Together with independent agents, Cincinnati Insurance focuses on relationships, not transactions. Their approach is grounded in experience, follow through and trust built over time. Bad days happen, and when they do, you deserve an insurance partner who understands risk, respects what you've built, and is ready to help you move forward. The Cincinnati Insurance companies Let them make your bad day better. Find an independent agent at c I n-fin.com I'm Francine Lacqua, an award winning journalist and I've got a new podcast, Leaders with Francine Lacqua from Bloomberg Podcasts. I've interviewed everyone from heads of state to fashion icons about the news of the moment, but I've always been curious, who are these people? People as leaders?

[Tim Stenovec]

I don't think there's one right way to be a leader. Make decisions.

[Stu Leonard Jr.]

A poor decision is always better than no decision.

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Listen to new episodes every other Monday. Follow Leaders with Francine Lacqua Wherever you get your podcasts.