Trump Deepens Tariff Battle With Threat Over EU’s Google Fine

Summary

Bloomberg Businessweek Podcast Summary

Episode: Trump Deepens Tariff Battle With Threat Over EU’s Google Fine
Date: July 24, 2026
Hosts: Carol Massar and Tim Stenovec
Key Guests: Michael McKee (Bloomberg Economics & Policy), Mandeep Singh (Bloomberg Tech Research), Clara Gillespie (CFR), Jason Leopold (FOIA Files), Claudia Chamberlain (Berry Bros. & Rudd)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the escalation of the Trump administration’s tariff battle, especially concerning recent threats over the EU’s fine on Google. It covers the legal and economic dynamics of new U.S. tariffs, implications for tech and broader markets, global energy challenges amid geopolitical tensions, insights into government transparency and FOIA discoveries, and a lively discussion on fine wine as both a personal indulgence and an asset class.

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Key Segments & Insights

1. Trump’s New Tariffs & EU Tech Tensions

(03:10–08:06)

• Background: The “Liberation Day” tariffs were struck down by the Supreme Court last year. President Trump responds by issuing new tariffs using a different legal basis: Section 301 (national security and treaty violations).
• Details:
  • The new tariffs maintain the previous 10-12.5% levels, but use “Section 301” justification, targeting countries accused of forced labor or lax enforcement regarding imports.
  • Debate on legality: Ongoing lawsuits question whether this is just “an excuse for the tariffs that were already struck down” (Michael McKee, 04:51).
  • Possible escalation: The administration threatens further retaliatory tariffs, arguing the EU unfairly fines U.S. tech companies while protecting their own.

Notable Quotes:

• “They hope [the new justification] will be legal before the Supreme Court... But some companies have already filed suit against the president on those tariffs.”
  — Michael McKee [04:51]

• “It’s deja vu all over again.”
  — Michael McKee [05:01]

• Legal Nuances: The President’s authority is now based on more specific legal levers, but there’s “a lot of disagreement” about which are actually permissible (07:31).

• Next Steps: Supreme Court decision on these tariffs might not happen until late next year [08:09].

---

2. Economic Impact & Inflation Pressures

(08:14–09:43)

• Tariffs & Inflation: While tariffs are inflationary, “not to the extent we thought they would be,” due to businesses absorbing costs and managed inventories.
• Corporate Responses:
  • Qualcomm raised prices by double digits, possibly signaling more consumer impact ahead.
  • The inflationary impact hasn’t reached a level to worry the Fed just yet.

Notable Quote:

• “They weren’t the kind of level of inflation that the Fed would worry about at this point.”
  — Michael McKee [09:14]

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3. Tech Earnings & CapEx in the Age of AI

(10:34–16:16)
Guest: Mandeep Singh, Bloomberg Tech Research

• Intel’s Mixed Results: Server side strong; consumer/client side faces pricing pressures from higher memory costs.
• AI CapEx Race:
  • All major tech companies are raising capital expenditures (“if you’re not raising capex, in my mind that is a sign you are cutting back somewhere else” — Mandeep Singh, 12:24).
  • Alphabet increased CapEx by 4%, reflecting strong AI/cloud investment.
  • “Cloud growth of 82%... and margins expanding to 36%” at Alphabet [13:37].
• Outlook:
  • Big Tech remains optimistic—raising prices, maintaining spend, and backing AI infrastructure expansion, suggesting belief in continued momentum.
  • Anticipation for next week’s earnings from Microsoft, Amazon, Meta, Apple.

EU Fines & Tech:

• President Trump’s social media threats about EU’s fines against Apple and Google are interpreted as “very supportive of big tech... Overall positive for big tech companies” (Mandeep Singh, 16:16).

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4. Global Energy Uncertainties Amid Middle East Conflict

(19:41–26:57)
Guest: Clara Gillespie, CFR

• Oil Market Volatility: Brent crude up 30%—markets “remain incredibly fragile” due to conflict expansion.
• Asia’s Energy Shift:
  • China and others look toward non-fossil energy for long-term security but still rely heavily on coal for immediate needs.
  • Coal consumption is rising, especially as LNG markets remain tight. This has long-term implications for pollution and import dependency.

Notable Quote:
“We’re already seeing more demand for coal, more than both today and more than our expectations.”
— Clara Gillespie [24:38]

• Climate Concerns:
  • Progress in renewables and nuclear, but “the potential for rising use of coal” is troubling for global carbon emissions [25:54].
• Oil Price Outlook:
  • Too many uncertainties to predict if $100/barrel oil is sustainable heading into fall (26:57).

---

5. FOIA Files & Government Oversight

(27:31–34:35)
Guest: Jason Leopold, FOIA Files

• FOIA Challenges:
  • Four years to receive social media guidelines from Customs & Border Protection, highlighting agency sluggishness.
  • Social media documents reveal strict internal rules against propaganda, vulgarity, and improper posting—“the agency is kind of straying from what they’re obligated to do” (Jason Leopold, 28:29).
• Transparency Issues:
  • Agencies claim guidelines are “periodically reviewed and updated,” but clarity is lacking [31:17].
  • Typical FOIA requests should not take four years; process is arbitrary and often inexplicable.

On Epstein Files:

• Recent document releases expose the scope of Epstein’s flight/trafficking operations and renewed investigations in France.
• “It’s, it’s great investigative work... shows the vast network of flights over a period of 10, 11 years” (Jason Leopold, 34:57).

---

6. Wine as Culture & Asset: Berry Bros. & Rudd in the US

(40:45–51:34)
Guest: Claudia Chamberlain, Advanced Sommelier, Berry Bros. & Rudd

• Company Profile: Oldest UK wine merchant, now in DC—responding to increased US interest in fine wine.
• Clientele & Education:
  • Advises everyone from new sippers to serious collectors.
  • Americans largely focus on “consumption and opening wine at peak,” less on investing long-term [43:09].
• Expert Tips:
  • Drinking windows depend on taste—fresh/acidic vs. mature/earthy.
  • Summer sales spike for Champagne and white Burgundy; red wine still popular, sometimes served slightly chilled.
  • Highlights of the tasting:
    • 2023 Domaine de Castillo Pay Le Merange (Burgundy Chardonnay): “Vibrant, savory, perfect for summer.”
    • 2009 Château Langoa Barton: “Exceptional Bordeaux vintage, showcases our access to great producers.”
    • Berry Bros. & Rudd Grand Cru Champagne (“top seller, great value at $44.95”).
• Why DC: Wealthy, wine-savvy population, strong culinary scene, and a base for national expansion.

---

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On Tariffs:
  “They hope [the new justification] will be legal before the Supreme Court. But some companies have already filed suit against the president...” — Michael McKee [04:51]
• On Tech CapEx:
  “If you’re not raising capex, in my mind that is a sign you are cutting back somewhere else.” — Mandeep Singh [12:24]
• On Global Energy:
  “For me, one of the biggest takeaways is just the degree of uncertainty that we’re seeing on a day to day basis...” — Clara Gillespie [20:08]
• On FOIA Delays:
  “Sometimes it’s ridiculous in terms of how long agencies take to produce documents.” — Jason Leopold [28:29]
• On Wine Enjoyment:
  “If you love something that is a little bit more broken in, like fine leather... opt for something more mature.” — Claudia Chamberlain [44:32]

---

Key Takeaways

• Tariff Volatility: Trump’s new tariffs rehash old conflicts; their legality and impact on inflation will play out over months.
• Tech Stays the Course: Despite pressures, Big Tech continues heavy CapEx for AI, viewing supply and component cost increases as manageable signs of continued momentum.
• Energy Markets See-Saw: The Russia-Middle East turmoil keeps oil and coal demand volatile, with troubling climate ramifications.
• Government Transparency Lags: FOIA processes remain slow and unreliable, even for seemingly straightforward requests.
• Wine Is Both Pleasure & Asset: Fine wine culture in the US is shifting—consumers want immediate enjoyment but also aspire to knowledge and collecting, guided by historic expertise.

---

[End of Summary]

Transcript

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[Bloomberg Businessweek Daily Podcast Host]

Studios podcasts radio news this is Bloomberg Businessweek daily reporting from the magazine that helps global leaders stay ahead with insight on the people, companies and trends shaping today's complex economy. Plus, global business, finance and tech news as it happens. The Bloomberg businessweek daily podcast with Carol Massar and Tim Stanweck on Bloomberg Radio.

[Tim Stenovec]

We got Mike McKee with us, Bloomberg News international economics and policy correspondent. He joins us here in the Bloomberg businessweek studio. Mike, I have trouble keeping track of all of these. Fortunately, you are here to set us straight. People are familiar with the Liberation Day tariffs from last year struck down by the Supreme Court. I'm still waiting on my refund check. I don't know if you've gotten yours.

[Michael McKee]

No.

[Tim Stenovec]

Okay. You haven't gotten.

[Michael McKee]

You're not likely to get one. Don't wait too long.

[Tim Stenovec]

Okay, we'll get to that. The new tariffs that were laid out yesterday, 4:57pm Wall street time, how are these different than what the president did last year?

[Michael McKee]

Well, the president did the Section 122 tariffs after the Supreme Court struck down his IEPA tariffs, which gave him the ability to do 150 days of tariffs at 10% around the world. And that expired at midnight last night. So today they announced these new Section 301 tariffs, which is basically an effort to recreate the tariff levels that they already have. In this case, they're arguing Section 301 allows tariffs on national security grounds or if the US is party to treaties and people are not keeping up with the treaties. And it's kind of that part that it falls under because the US Is accusing these countries of either using forced labor to produce things or not policing the companies that they're importing from. And so then they've levied 10% to 12 and a half percent tariffs on these people, which is the same as what we had before with the 122. So it doesn't change the tariff level maybe, you know, a little bit for some companies, but in general keeps tariffs at about where they are.

[Tim Stenovec]

It's just a different justification, just a

[Michael McKee]

different justification that they hope will be legal before the Supreme Court. But while you were talking, we just saw a headline that some companies have already filed suit against the president on those tariffs, arguing that they're just an excuse for the tariffs that were already struck down as illegal by the Supreme Court. So we're back where we were. As Carol was saying, deja vu all over again. And now we have these other threats today on from the president on the 301 tariffs, arguing that it's not fair to American companies, that the EU can fine them for breaking EU law.

[Carol Massar]

Yet some would say if The US felt foreign companies were breaking the law or.

[Bloomberg Businessweek Daily Podcast Host]

Right.

[Carol Massar]

We would do that? Well, of course we would impose fines, of course.

[Michael McKee]

But you're trying to be logical.

[Tim Stenovec]

Okay, what are the, what are the, what are the. I mean, is there a sing. Is it, does it stem from forced labor in China? Is that where all of this stems from?

[Carol Massar]

Yeah.

[Michael McKee]

What is that about? Not necessarily. I mean, there, there is. And Bloomberg's done some award winning reporting on this. Forced labor, basically slavery around the world in many, many, many countries, particularly in Southeast Asia and southern, in lat. Where in Africa people are just forced into producing for workers. And it, it can be actual slavery where you're imprisoned and you're made to do it, or it can be economic imprisonment, basically.

[Tim Stenovec]

But are there, I mean, is that a, is it, is it legitimate? Does the, does the US have a legitimate way of actually proving that these countries are doing business with companies that are using 301?

[Michael McKee]

You have to do an investigation. And so the administration has a written justification for these countries. Now I, I would put some of it certainly under stretching the law as far as it will go. The United Kingdom, for example, or Canada. But there are some legitimate uses. And so we'll have to see how legally this all plays out. But what's happening is the President is using these and he's going to put the tariffs in place and, and they will be in place while whatever legal battles go on.

[Carol Massar]

So essentially a mechanism for imposing these tariffs while everybody figures out really what he can or can't do.

[Michael McKee]

Right?

[Carol Massar]

Essentially. So the Supreme Court ruling, like you brought this up because you've been talking with some of your buds or last night who were like, how can the President do this right with coming after the Supreme Court ruling? This is just a reminder that he has different levers he can pull.

[Michael McKee]

There are different levers and there's different. A lot of disagreement about which ones are legal. And the court basically ruled in the IPA case, the very first Liberation Day tariffs, that Congress didn't give him the right to impose broad based tariffs like that, that what Congress did was say the President could impose tariffs on case by case basis when there are obvious violations of U.S. law. So there's some grounds maybe to look at this broad 301 effort today as also problematic for the President. But it's going to be up to the Supreme Court to decide.

[Tim Stenovec]

And what would the timeline on that potentially be?

[Michael McKee]

You're going to be talking probably sometime late next year. So. Okay then.

[Tim Stenovec]

Okay, so let's push forward to the Fed next week and sort of the

[Michael McKee]

Let me just mention one thing. There's another 301 in process for overproducing goods, which similar to the idea of the dumping that countries are doing. And that one the president may add on to the tariff levels. So we may see tariffs go up from the 10 to 12% range even higher.

[Tim Stenovec]

So are tariffs inflationary?

[Michael McKee]

They are, but not to the extent that we thought they would be, in part because the world has changed, but in part because a lot of the people who were tariffed, the businesses doing the importing, absorbed some of the tariffs and then they were working off of inventories that they'd stocked up on because the tariffs were coming. So the price changes didn't hit people all at the same time. Now, you saw today that Qualcomm said they're raising their prices by double digits. So maybe we're going to get a bit more of a reaction now. But in the grand scheme of things, they weren't to take it back to where you want to go. They weren't the kind of level of inflation that the Fed would worry about at this point.

[Tim Stenovec]

But with Qualcomm, that would be like what Apple did as a result of memory prices. Right?

[Michael McKee]

Yeah. That falls under the category of as a result of supply and demand. There's more demand than there is supply for air goods.

[Claudia Chamberlain]

Right.

[Michael McKee]

And that's something the Fed mentioned at their last meeting that they were concerned about in terms of inflation.

[Carol Massar]

30 seconds, something really important before you leave. Most read or among the most read stories on the Bloomberg LeBron James, a Laker no more.

[Michael McKee]

A Laker no more. His contract is not going to be inflationary because he took a very low payday in order to join the 76ers. And hopefully he leads them. Hopefully he says he leads them to another championship. I'm sure anybody who doesn't live in Philadelphia doesn't have the same hope.

[Carol Massar]

Yeah, I know we have some folks on our team from Philadelphia and they were pretty happy, I think, about this. Mike, thank you so much. Really appreciate it. Bloomberg TV and Radio International economics and policy correspondent Michael McKee.

[Tim Stenovec]

You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week daily podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5pm Eastern. Listen on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app or watch us live on to Bloomberg Intelligence Global

[Carol Massar]

head of technology research Mandeep Singh is with us, joining us remotely in New York. Mandeep intel shares, you were with us. They rallied more than 12% following results. You were here with us. Shares coming back down to earth here and they are lower as we speak. Post the intel earnings call, what did we learn? What anything here change? You're thinking about the results?

[Mandeep Singh]

Yes, I think the server side obviously was quite refreshing, that fact that they are under shipping demand but on the client side that's where the memory prices probably will have a bigger impact in the second half. And that's where I think intel tempered expectations for how much that client side is going to grow in the second half. And the other thing I would call out is just the CapEx expectations. I mean, they talked about ramping up foundry and yields getting better. But you know, when it comes to financing some of that foundry expansion, it wasn't clear that they have the balance sheet to do it one and if it will involve some sort of equity financing. I think the financing aspect just wasn't clear if they were to raise their capex. And that's where I think there was some nervousness around what this means to Intel's balance sheet.

[Tim Stenovec]

Mandy, we're going to talk about the week that was when it comes to tech, but before that and kind of related to that, we did hear from, from Alphabet and certainly concerns about Alphabet's CapEx and, and people thinking, okay, well how do we add that into the picture of how all these companies are spending on capex for AI demand and then also the backlog there and looking at AI demand, did we get anything from intel that makes that picture any clearer?

[Mandeep Singh]

I mean, right now it feels like every company has to raise their capex simply because all the components are getting more expensive. In fact, if you're not raising capex, in my mind that is a sign that you are cutting back somewhere else. And so the fact that Alphabet raised their CapEx by 4% for the full year 2026 is a sign that they're actually taking in the memory prices into account and not curtailing anywhere else. And same thing with, I would say even intel, you know, things are getting expensive for them in terms of making those investments. So it's a good sign that these companies are staying on track when it comes to taking the component price increases into effect and they're not holding back in terms of cutting somewhere else. So I view it positively personally in terms of this overall infrastructure expense.

[Carol Massar]

Right. If you're, if you're looking for signs of optimism, it's not just about growing backlogs and other things, but it's if you are willing to raise prices and still keep on spending, you wouldn't do that unless you felt like the momentum is going to continue for longer. Correct?

[Mandeep Singh]

Exactly. And look, Alphabet did give us a proof point in terms of their cloud growth of 82% and margins expanding to 36%. Yes, near term they may come down, but that's for a different reason because they're renting from, you know, third parties and so everything. Every data point that we gathered this week at least was positive. Obviously we'll find out next week if the same holds true for Microsoft, Amazon and others. But the narrative so far supports the AI infrastructure expansion as well as the ROI you are seeing on that investment.

[Tim Stenovec]

So okay, let's talk a little more about the big picture and kind of the week that was. Well, if we have time, we'll get to the President's view on, on, on tech and tech with regard to Europe. But given that we have four more of the Mag 7 next week. Mandeep, we'll hear from Apple. I'm trying to understand the big picture of what we learned this week and what we need to be prepared for next week.

[Mandeep Singh]

I mean two big things. One is obviously the cloud revenue comparison and now that you know, Alphabet has set the bar so high with their 82% cloud growth at $100 billion run rate and the backlog that they have shown 500/billion now, you know, Microsoft will be measured to that bar in terms of whether azure growth is 40% or 45 or 50. Same thing for Amazon AWS. Is it going to be 30 or accelerating sequentially? Because I think everyone is expecting to see ROI on this big spend in the cloud numbers for sure. Meta it will be different because they don't have a cloud business and it'll be interesting to see how they talk about that on the call in terms of what they plan to do going forward. And Apple, to my mind, you know, they are another case of a company that is facing component price increases that I mean if I were to contrast them to intel which said second half, you know, consumer pieces may actually slow down because of the demand destruction tied to higher memory prices. The same thing should be applicable to Apple. So it'll be interesting to see what they end up guiding to for the second half.

[Carol Massar]

Hey, 30 seconds. Anything we need to know about the President here out on social about EU fines against Apple and Google and looking to kind of go back after the eu. I mean these nations have a right to right, oversee these, these big companies that operate. They're just got a few seconds, 25 seconds.

[Mandeep Singh]

I mean very supportive of big tech, both on the EU side as well as the open source models and how they are looking to scrutinize them. So overall positive for big tech companies. In terms of the support from the administration, you're amazing.

[Carol Massar]

We owe you like an apple basket or a box of chocolate or something. Mandeep, thank you for always being there for us. Mandeep Singh, Bloomberg Intelligence Global Head of

[Tim Stenovec]

Search Stay with us. More from Bloomberg Businessweek Daily Coming up after this

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[Tim Stenovec]

Brent is up about 30% this month alone. For more, we are joined by Clara Gillespie, Senior Fellow for Climate and Energy at the Council on Foreign Relations. She joins us from Washington, D.C. clara, did, did the, did the like the energy markets told us a few weeks ago that the worst was behind us and it seems like they got it wrong. What is the price action reflecting to you about the current state of affairs of what's happening in the Middle East?

[Clara Gillespie]

For me, one of the biggest takeaways in what we're seeing with oil prices right now is just the degree of uncertainty that we're seeing on still a day to day basis because this is another week in which energy markets have remained incredibly fragile. And yet even so, we've seen resilience, adaptation coming from a number of fronts. I think one of the challenges that we're dealing with is now we're talking about a situation that's not just an ongoing conflict. It's a conflict that's expanding on multiple fronts with implications for markets.

[Carol Massar]

Yeah. What are the implications? Like, you know, one of the things, Clara, that we've been talking about is, you know, watching China, how they are increasingly embracing other forms of energy. They want to not be beholden to the world when it comes to their energy needs. And that's whether it's nuclear, whether it's alternative energy, like we said. See that I do wonder, you know, when we think more broadly about energy and we're still very reliant on fossil fuels, but longer term, I mean, Saudi Arabia, the whole region, Middle east, they are thinking about like life after fossil fuels, aren't they?

[Clara Gillespie]

You know, I'm not sure yet if countries are thinking about life after fossil fuels, but I do think increasingly we're seeing questions about life, life after peak oil or at least the kind of reliance on oil that we've seen in previous years. A big part of this and what we've seen in the number of adaptations over the last few months is this kind of rising interest and focus on electrification, on vehicles, on other things that can help curb that demand for oil. It's certainly something that has also factored into Saudi Arabia's thinking as well on multiple aspects of its energy security strategy. And for that reason I think also influences how it thinks about its remaining export potential. But the reason I'm hesitant to say that we're in a world that's thinking beyond or kind of post fossil fuels yet is some of the broader things that we've seen on this front. One of the questions is of course, what we've seen with natural gas trade, where I think some of the stories continue to be more mixed and there are questions there. But I also think quite a bit about coal demand as well. Where you have, for example, in response to this crisis and rising demand for electricity, Asia really increasing its consumption of coal to make up for that gap it's had in tight LNG markets. And so longer term a question is, you know, do we see that sustained, clearly multiple economies, not just China, but you also have Vietnam and others have been thinking about that transition to greater use of renewable energy sources. They were thinking about that pre Hormuz as well. So there is a question of how much more they can do and what as they see as their most challenging sources of potential system strain.

[Tim Stenovec]

Yeah, well, what's the, I mean coal for now is easier than some of the renewables you talk about and perhaps some of the nuclear because you can just increase what you're, you're actually doing when it comes to coal. What are the long term implications if there is a higher reliance on coal in some of those countries you mentioned?

[Clara Gillespie]

There are a couple of implications of longer term reliance on coal. And I'll say it's not just that coal is easier. It's in some case the capacity is just already in place, underutilized if you continue to utilize it. So why has it been underutilized? What are the risks of if it's utilized at a greater degree over the long term? We talk a lot about air pollution in particular, which the Asia Pacific and region in particular has really been front and center. We've all seen the stories of years and years of really toxic air pollution out of Beijing, New Delhi, elsewhere. I think that's one of the implications. Another is we often talk about coal as this sort of low cost source of energy. We talk about it as something that's domestically abundant. We are seeing more and more across the region, both rising prices on coal and rising requirements for coal imports as well to meet those needs. So there's a little bit of a geopolitical concern there as well.

[Carol Massar]

Wait, so more demand for coal you're saying in general or what? I'm sorry, I think I'm kind of missed the point here.

[Ashley Iconetti]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Clara Gillespie]

In the near term, we're already seeing more demand for coal, more than both today and more than our expectations that already saw demand for coal rising in south and Southeast Asia as well. But beyond just kind of the near term shock, there are things that I'm watching now where it's going to be interesting to see what actually moves forward or does not. For example, there's been some reporting on Vietnam of questions of if it is considering new construction of coal fired power plants. It is not the only one across the region that has had trouble, not just in questions of reducing its use of existing plants, but holding off on additional builds. And that's something that could further incentivize demand higher.

[Carol Massar]

So I think about your senior fellow for climate and energy. So how do you think about all of this in terms of the global climate picture going forward in a year where certainly here in the US we've been dealing with smoke coming down from wildfires in Canada, you know, extreme weather again, whether it's water or heat. So I'm just curious, as you watch the global energy picture and what's going on there and what it means for global climate, how do you tie it all together? Is it worrisome?

[Clara Gillespie]

It's worrisome. And I would also say that it is a bit of a mixed story because you have seen already a number in the region who in the response to this ongoing global energy market shock, have talked about the increased use of nuclear energy, earlier restarts or new builds. They've talked about their greater ambitions for not just the renewable energy sources that we think about, so wind and solar, but also biofuels and other alternatives as well. So I think these are all great trends, but I think they do not fully eliminate my concern about one, the potential for rising use of coal. And in turn, even with greater progress, I think we still do have those real serious growing challenges of the reasons rising carbon emissions and the challenges that creates not just for individual communities in the region, but for global action at large.

[Tim Stenovec]

We just have 10 seconds and I want to end where we began and that's with oil prices and just your prediction as we get into the fall, are we going to stay around $100 a barrel.

[Clara Gillespie]

You know, I think we are still in an environment where there are so many uncertainties. We are wondering if the price point that we're at now is sustainable and if some of the things.

[Ashley Iconetti]

Yeah, I would love to know, too.

[Tim Stenovec]

Gillespie, senior fellow for Climate and Energy at the Council on Foreign Relations, joining us from Washington, D.C. you're listening to

[Bloomberg Businessweek Daily Podcast Host]

the Bloomberg Business this Week daily podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5 Eastern. Listen on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app or watch us live on YouTube.

[Tim Stenovec]

We're talking about the latest when it comes to FOIA Files. Jason Leopold is Bloomberg News senior investigative reporter. He's the author of the FOIA Files newsletter, comes out each Friday. You can read it and subscribe to it on the terminal or by going to bloomberg.com/newsletters. Jason also has the podcast Disclosure and he's the executive producer and executive producer of the new documentary the Real Wolf of Wall Street. It premiered earlier this month exclusively on Paramount. Plus all episodes are available for streaming right now.

[Carol Massar]

Do you ever joins us from la.

[Tim Stenovec]

Well, I was gonna say, Jason, we don't have any time left after that introduction because you're doing too much. So, you know, maybe make us keeps

[Jason Leopold]

me out of trouble.

[Tim Stenovec]

It does, but it doesn't make the rest, you know, okay.

[Jason Leopold]

That's basically why I'm working, to stay out of trouble.

[Tim Stenovec]

All right. Well, we like it when you stay out of trouble because you can kind of explain the trouble that other folks are getting into. And maybe that's a good segue to talk about why it took, what, four years for you to get. It took four years to get to a Twitter account. What happened here?

[Jason Leopold]

Yeah, I mean, this was this is just sort of an example of how sometimes it's ridiculous in terms of how long agencies take to produce documents. But the reason I wrote about this this week because I felt it was still relevant. And, you know, back in 2022, the customer, customers and Border Protections West Texas Twitter account kind of went off the rails and started liking politically charged tweets from Stephen Miller that was critical of the Biden administration's immigration policies. And in addition to that, it, it liked, you know, tweets that were also homophobic from Pete Buttigieg, who is the secretary of Transportation. I wanted some documents around that to find out how it happened. What I was really interested in was the social media guidelines. And if anyone's been, you know, watching social media over the past year and a half, I think it's pretty apparent that the way in which official government social media accounts have been communicating with the public have been, you know, quite aggressive. It's been volatile. And the social media guidelines really sets forth the ways in which, you know, government agencies are supposed to communicate with people. So that was the real get for me here, where these guidelines that were previously marked for official use only, which essentially shows that, you know, that they're not supposed to. When I say they, you know, certainly in this case, CBP, because these are CBP's guidelines, they're not supposed to be engaging with the public or posting any posts, tweets on X now, which is what it is. That would be vulgar. That would rise to the level of propaganda. So these strict guidelines, these 11 pages would appear to show that the agency is kind of straying from what they're obligated to do actually under the law in some cases as well. We've seen pictures of individuals who've been accused of various crimes. What these guidelines say is that they're not supposed to be doing that.

[Carol Massar]

So, wait, have you reached out then back to them to find out, like, in this environment, whether those rules are being followed? Since it's a bunch of pages on rules and regulations?

[Jason Leopold]

Yeah, I did reach out to CBP just to find out if these 2019 guidelines are still in effect

[Michael McKee]

or if

[Jason Leopold]

there's some new ones. And basically what the spokesperson told me is that they are updated as needed. Wouldn't say one way or another whether they're still using these guidelines or if there are new ones, but just periodically. They're periodically reviewed and updated.

[Carol Massar]

I don't even know what to say.

[Jason Leopold]

These are the questions I know. These are the questions I ask. This is why I was like, well, how did they come to tweet that or post that? And that's when I say, you got a foia.

[Tim Stenovec]

Is it typical that it would take something four years to get files like this?

[Jason Leopold]

No, it's not typical, and I don't have an explanation for it.

[Tim Stenovec]

But you have no idea why some. Why you get some within a few months and some within a few years. You have no idea.

[Carol Massar]

This seems like an easy request. No offense, right?

[Jason Leopold]

Very easy request. Yeah, very easy. No explanation behind that.

[Tim Stenovec]

So, Jason, I'm asking before about this, and I want you to sort of go into it a little bit. How do you know that what you're getting is actually exhaustive?

[Jason Leopold]

It's a great question. So it's based on my request. So if, you know, if I ask for a wide range of documents and the agency only turns over A few, you know, pages of records that I question the integrity of research. So I'm carefully looking at what they produced in response to what I specifically requested. And, you know, there are many instances I did it yesterday where I appealed the integrity of an agency search because I didn't think it was exhaustive enough.

[Carol Massar]

Well, speaking of keeping an eye on the government. Oh, yes, okay. We are keeping an eye on. Because President Trump is making some comments from the White House. We do have some headlines. Hang on a second.

[Claudia Chamberlain]

Sure, Jason.

[Carol Massar]

As we just kind of go through President Trump, the Saudi nuclear deal, the time for them to do the Abraham Accords. That is certainly an agreement when it comes to nuclear weapons and nuclear capabilities. And that is something that we've talked about here with our team that's unlikely that Saudi Arabia would sign on to.

[Tim Stenovec]

But the president says at some point they will.

[Carol Massar]

We will see. Yeah, yeah. He also said on Iran, problem disappearing, no great power anymore. I would, I would think it's safely safe to say that if you talk to Iran, they would probably disagree.

[Tim Stenovec]

Well, I guess the, you know, it

[Carol Massar]

goes, I beg to differ.

[Tim Stenovec]

What he, what he said over the past few months about that, that whole country, country's military being decimated, being destroyed, parts of the Navy being destroyed. We are still fighting over the last

[Carol Massar]

two back and forth on both sides, Iran. So. Yeah.

[Ashley Iconetti]

All right.

[Carol Massar]

We're going to monitor, though, folks, and certainly bring you any headlines as they are known and certainly relevant to the Bloomberg audience and an investing audience. But we want to stay with Jason Leopold, senior investigative reporter at Bloomberg News. Hey, Jason, before our time wraps up, we do want to get to your attention. You've been so great in kind of keeping us up to date on all things Epstein. And the news flow has definitely slowed down, but we know that there are still documents that we don't have and people don't have, and there's still stuff being gone through. There's a really interesting and fun.

[Claudia Chamberlain]

Fun.

[Carol Massar]

Wrong word. Tracking flights in terms of Jeffrey Epstein's operations, thousands of flights booked by the financiers staff, connected associates and victims to a global network of properties. Finding all of this stuff out and tracking, it's important, right?

[Jason Leopold]

Oh, it's hugely important. This is, this is an example. This, this story today by our colleagues. I mean, it's, it's, it's great investigative work. And what they did is they, they took the data and documents that the Justice Department released earlier this year and carefully read through everything, read through, you know, various spreadsheets and, you know, connected the dots and you know, what it ultimately, you know, shows is, you know, the vast network of flights over, you know, period of, of around maybe 10, 10 or 11 years, if I'm not mistaken.

[Carol Massar]

Yeah.

[Jason Leopold]

And how that may have been, you know, ultimately part of this, this sex trafficking network that he was running.

[Tim Stenovec]

We, we also have a story about the French modeling scout with ties to Jeffrey Epstein who was found dead in Paris. A story is like this, Jason, get people's attention because. Well, for a few reasons. But what have you and the team found here?

[Jason Leopold]

Well, you know, Daniel Siad, who was this, this French modeling scout and what we know from the documents, I mean, he's in many of these documents and that, you know, he was paid, he was paid thousands of dollars. There were discussions between Epstein and Jean Luc Brunel, who ran this modeling agency, MC2, where they discussed women, girls that Daniel Siad was tasked with finding women for. Don't know if it's for the agency or specifically for Epstein, but his name resurfaced earlier this year and he went on to posted a video essentially saying he had no idea that this is what he was involved with. But he was the subject of an investigation that was reopened in France related to Epstein's. Epstein's crimes. And currently they're investigating the, you know, the cause and manner of the death.

[Bloomberg Businessweek Daily Podcast Host]

Right.

[Carol Massar]

All prompted by his death. The Justice Department's release of that large trove of Epstein files raises a lot of eyebrows, though. Yeah, it absolutely does. And has us talking about it again as we try to piece everything together, as you always help us do. Listen, Jason, thank you. Thank you so much. Really appreciate it. Have a good weekend. Jason Leopold. He's senior investigative reporter at Bloomberg News. He is, of course, author of two the FOIA Files newsletter. You can get it on the Bloomberg Bloomberg.com newsletters. He also hosts the podcast Disclosure. And we mentioned the Real Wolf of Wall street, the document on Paramount Plus. Stay with us. More from Bloomberg businessweek Daily. Coming up after this.

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[Ashley Iconetti]

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[Ashley Iconetti]

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[Tim Stenovec]

You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5pm Eastern. Listen on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App or watch us live on YouTube.

[Carol Massar]

Family run British wine and spirits merchants so talk about having some history and being around for a long time. They have seen, to say the least, a lot of wine, a lot of beverages.

[Tim Stenovec]

Probably we're talking about Barry Brothers and Rudd. Claudia Chamberlain joins us now. Advanced Sommelier And US General manager at Barry Brothers in Rud. She joins us from Washington, D.C. claudia, welcome, welcome. Before we get to the wine, give us a little history of this establishment that goes back centuries.

[Claudia Chamberlain]

Yes, absolutely. And thank you all so much for having me on this fine Friday afternoon. So we are a heritage British fine wine and spirits merchant. As you said. We've been around since 1698, but we just opened our doors in the US this past November. So we have a physical store that's at Farragut Square in Washington D.C. and then an online service, and then we specialize in something that we call private client advisory services.

[Carol Massar]

Well, couple questions. Why the U.S. why? Why now?

[Claudia Chamberlain]

Yeah, so I think that's a great question. The US has been for the longest time one of the biggest consumers in the world. And that data just continues to point us in the direction of a lot of Americans are really interested in fine wine. And so Barry Brothers, having been around since the end of the 1600s, they have quite a big database of clientele around the world. And so they've had a number of American clients for a long time. And we decided to make it a bit easier to access the services by opening up our doors in the US

[Tim Stenovec]

So for people listening right now who may not consider fine wine an alternative asset class yet at this point in their financial journey, the folks who you advise when it comes to the private climate clients or private client service that you offer, what do you advise them on? What do you tell them about? What do you educate them on?

[Claudia Chamberlain]

Yeah, I think, you know, it's, it's a number of different things because it's really a one on one conversation around whatever it is that they're interested in. So it could be that they are new on their fine wine drinking journey, it could be that they're an established collector. So maybe they want to talk through different types of white wines that they're interested in. Maybe they have questions, questions about different vintages, questions about how long to lay a wine down for, questions about how to serve a wine, how to pair a wine, all of those types of things. So it's really about meeting the client, where they're at and giving them advice on how to drink better and also have a lot of fun while doing it.

[Carol Massar]

So is it all about drinking better and being smart and understanding? Is it also about wine collecting? We've done so much reporting here at Bloomberg, and, you know, I'm just reading from a story that we've done over the last year. Passionate collectors buy wines they love and plan to Drink, yes. But to invest you have to select the right ones at the right price at the right time. If you have access to buy in the first place and have them maintain their value. How many people are looking to buy? Put them on a shelf in a cellar, let them sit for a while and rise in value to either drink later or to maybe even sell.

[Claudia Chamberlain]

Yeah, I think it's, it's again, it's a mix. So our clientele is from all walks of life, truly. And so there are people that are looking for something that they're going to be drinking weekend that they're sharing with friends and then there are people who are looking to grab a case of their daughter's birth year wines to hang on to for a while. So we see all different kinds of things. I would say that in general, the American consumer is very focused on the act of consumption and the act of how to drink something in its perfect drinking window and how to find the thing that they can open more in the immediate versus hanging onto it for a long amount of time.

[Tim Stenovec]

Carol wants to start drinking soon, but I have some more questions.

[Carol Massar]

No, but keep going. No, but I mean I am learning as I go and happy been stills like how do you figure out like when's the perfect time to, to drink it or, or what you need to do or what you should be looking for? I mean this is what you do.

[Claudia Chamberlain]

Yeah, exactly. It is up to personal preference. So if you prefer something that is really vivacious and fresh and sort of bright and acidic, then you're probably going to lean more on the younger vintages of things or maybe the cooler vintages from the different growing regions around the world versus if you love something that is, is a little bit more broken in, like fine leather. Right. Then maybe you're going to opt for something that's a bit more mature. So it totally depends. It also depends on what you're eating, how you're feeling, what the temperature is outside. So the type of thing is we have a range that can apply to any of those situations. And I would argue there's a case for all of those types of things. It really comes down to how you like your wine and how you want to be enjoying it in that moment.

[Tim Stenovec]

Claudia, I know there's a lot of spending power in the Washington D.C. area, but there's also a lot of spending power in New York, Louisiana, San Francisco, Miami. Why Washington D.C. is your first U.S. location?

[Claudia Chamberlain]

That's a great question. So I think, you know, as a heritage British merchant, it made a lot of sense for us to settle down. Our first flagship store in the nation's capital for our first foray into the US but also, you know, dc, as you've just mentioned, there are some of the wealthiest counties in the US that are right here in our backyard. It's a super transient city, so people are always coming and going. It has a very high sort of engagement wine scene, and so there's a really incredible network of fine dining and wine bars and different sommelier sort of centric groups. And so it felt like a natural place for us to springboard from. There's also direct flights to most of the US and with our online business and our different offerings, we do cater to clients in 46 different states as well.

[Carol Massar]

All right, so you were kind enough to share some wine with us so that we can kind of work our way through. Should we start with the white or the red?

[Claudia Chamberlain]

I think let's start with the white.

[Carol Massar]

Okay, so tell us what you sent to us. I'm not going to go and pronounce it because I'm always bad with this.

[Tim Stenovec]

Didn't you take French? Didn't you take Spanish?

[Claudia Chamberlain]

Right.

[Carol Massar]

No, I took them. Muchas anos de espano. So go ahead.

[Clara Gillespie]

Very good.

[Carol Massar]

Tell us about this white that you shared with us, and I'm going to actually open it up and.

[Tim Stenovec]

Oh, let's hear it.

[Claudia Chamberlain]

Absolutely. I'm honestly so jealous. We should have had some here in the office for this too. So you are drinking the 2023 Domain de Castillo Pay Le Merange. So it is a Chardonnay coming from Burgundy, and we chose this one to show to you because it really heralds. While we specialize in the iconic wine of the world and the really well known producers, we also prize ourselves in being able to take our customers on a journey and being able to open their eyes to the new wave of what's going to be collectible and what's really cool. And so this is one of those producers that is really allocated. It's a new grower in Burgundy. They've trained under some of the very best, and the wine itself is very vibrant and, I think, savory and a really nice way. That has to be a perfect pairing for your Friday afternoon.

[Carol Massar]

That's nice. I'm not a. That's actually really nice and kind of soft. I'm not a huge white wine drinker. The audience probably knows, but. But this is nice. And it's so funny. Like, I do this and I'm like, why don't I drink white wine? Because it's really, really lovely. Do more people, do you find are drinking more white wine in the summer because of the heat? Because I'm. I kind of drink red wine no matter what. But I'm just wondering, do you really see that uptick when it's warmer out there, especially with some of the heat waves that we've been having globally?

[Claudia Chamberlain]

You certainly do. I would say Champagne in particular is very in vogue at the moment, just given how warm it's been in the summer. In the east coast in particular, we've seen a huge spike in champagne sales. White Burgundy, which is the glass of what you're having, is absolutely incredible at this time of year. Sancerre continues to be something people really reach for as it gets warmer. And also. So we do see an uptick in white wine sales, but I think in general, we specialize in mostly French and Italian wines. And so we still have a very healthy base of sales of red wines during this time as well. So with the. With the red wine category, you can put some of the lighter ones. Some people will sometimes put a little bit of a chill on it, so leave it in the fridge for 20 to 30 minutes before you serve it. And that's the way to sort of get the best of both worlds, if you're more of a red wine drinker.

[Tim Stenovec]

Well, let's go to the red, please. Yeah. You sent us a chateau Langlois Barton St. Julian.

[Carol Massar]

Oh, stop.

[Clara Gillespie]

Shocking.

[Claudia Chamberlain]

Excellent.

[Tim Stenovec]

No, that wasn't very good, but thank you. I actually got, basically was told by my French teacher to take another language in all seriousness.

[Carol Massar]

All right, so that's wonderful.

[Claudia Chamberlain]

You're doing great.

[Tim Stenovec]

Thank you.

[Claudia Chamberlain]

Yeah, it sounds like you speak wine just fine. So, yes, this is the 2009, which is an exceptional vintage coming from Bordeaux. And so we chose this one to show you all because it highlights our provenance. And so when we say provenance, it means that because we are the oldest wine and spirits merchant from the uk, we have relationships that span decades. And so with those relationships, you get incredible access to the top producers of the world, to special library offerings, to large formats, to more bespoke offerings that don't necessarily reach a wider audience. And so we felt that the 2009 Chateau Languelle Barton was really exemplary for that reason. So this is a family that's been around since 1821. And so they're. They're one of the more iconic families of Bordeaux, and they own a number of different properties, but this is their third growth in St. Gillian. So this is going to Be a red blend. All Bordeaux is a blend typically of Cabernet Sauvignon and Merlot. This one comes from the left bank, so you're going to look at a base of around 50 to 60, 60% cabernet sauvignon, depending on the vintage. And then you've got some Merlot, some Cabernet Franc, and some Petit Verdot to make up the rest of it.

[Carol Massar]

It's nice. It's easy, right? It's an easy wine. And I could see it.

[Ashley Iconetti]

It's.

[Public.com Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Carol Massar]

Very, very nice. I love that it's a virus descent. I don't know that we talk about that lot. A lot of wines with kind of an Irish heritage. Right?

[Claudia Chamberlain]

Yeah, we really don't. And honestly, this is. It is a unique thing of the Barton family. And we were lucky enough to have Lillian Barton visit us this past January. And she. No Irish accent there, but she is absolutely fabulous. So they're doing a great job in Bordeaux.

[Carol Massar]

We just have 30 seconds left here. We're not going to open it up because we don't want to get hurt. We don't want to get hurt. It's a champagne. It's a little warm, so we want to be careful. But tell us about what you sent here as well. Champagne has had such a big comeback over the last few years. Just got about 30 seconds. Forgive me.

[Claudia Chamberlain]

Yep. So this is the.

[Bloomberg Businessweek Daily Podcast Host]

Our.

[Claudia Chamberlain]

It's our own label. So we showed this one to you because we have a label of our. Our range. And so we partner with some of those producers we've had relationships with for a long time. This is a Grand Cru champagne, and it retails for $44.95, which is a really great value for a champagne, especially of Grand Cru quality. So it shows you sort of the. The level of tiering that we have within the range. But also this is our number one bestseller.

[Carol Massar]

Wow, I love that. Well, next time, come in studio and we'll celebrate with you. It's been quite a week. Thank you so much. A great way for us to wrap up here. Claudia Chamberlain. She is advanced sommelier and US General manager at Barry Brothers and Rudd.

[Tim Stenovec]

This is the Bloomberg Business Week daily podcast available on Apple, Spotify and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5pm Eastern on bloomberg.com, the iHeartRadio app, tune in and the Bloomberg Business app. You can also watch us live Every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg.

[Jason Leopold]

Terminal.

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