US Consumer Spending Powers On Even as Inflation Persists

Summary

Bloomberg Businessweek: "US Consumer Spending Powers On Even as Inflation Persists"

Date: September 26, 2025
Hosts: Carol Massar & Tim Stenovec
Key Guests:

• Michael McKee (Bloomberg TV and Radio International Economics and Policy Correspondent)
• Elizabeth Renter (Senior Economist, Nerd Wallet)
• Chris Strohm (Bloomberg News, Justice Department Reporter)
• Max Abelson (Bloomberg News Finance Reporter)
• Carol Schleife (Chief Market Strategist, BMO Private Wealth)

---

EPISODE OVERVIEW

This episode explores the persistent strength of US consumer spending despite elevated inflation, examines current Federal Reserve policy, recent economic data, and their implications for monetary policy. It moves on to analyze notable legal news, delving into the unusual indictment of former FBI director James Comey. The episode also unveils new revelations from thousands of Jeffrey Epstein’s private emails obtained by Bloomberg, offering fresh perspective on the breadth of his connections and influence. The conversation ends with a market wrap involving the latest on IPOs, stock performance, and business resilience amidst economic complexities.

---

KEY DISCUSSION POINTS & INSIGHTS

1. The US Economy: Consumer Spending, Inflation & Fed Policy

• Resilient Consumer Spending:
  Recent economic data reveals surprisingly strong consumer spending, despite persistently high inflation and falling sentiment.
  • "We got better than expected spending numbers for from consumers. So at this point, it's really hard to say what's going to happen." (Michael McKee, 03:51)
• Inflation Slowdown, But Still Above Target:
  The latest core inflation measure grew at a slower pace but remains closer to 3% than the Fed’s 2% target.
  • "Inflation is not going down. It didn't get any worse, but it is still closer to 3% than the Fed's 2% target." (Michael McKee, 04:10)
• Fed’s Stance: Data-Dependent, Not Prescriptive:
  Richmond Fed President Thomas Barkin emphasized an "adaptive and attentive" approach, resisting predictions about future rate cuts.
  • "I feel like very adaptive is the way to think about it... I'm not being prescriptive... I think we're going to see and learn a lot as we go here." (Thomas Barkin, 02:57)

Notable Quote

"Adaptive and attentive sounds like data dependent."
— Carol Massar (03:18)

2. Labor Market & Economic Outlook

• Strong But Evolving Labor Market:
  Despite a low hiring environment, unemployment claims fell, signaling resilience.
  • "If there's some good news out of this week in addition to the consumer spending is that the initial claims came down, the unemployment claims. So that's a bright spot." (Elizabeth Renter, 07:34)
• Upcoming Jobs Data & Possible Government Shutdown:
  There’s anticipation and uncertainty regarding the next nonfarm payrolls report due to potential government shutdown.
  • "The big question next week is not only what we're going to see in the jobs data, but if we're going to see the jobs data." (Elizabeth Renter, 08:41)
• Labor Participation Issues:
  A shrinking labor force, in part due to reduced immigration, is helping hold the unemployment rate steady despite weaker job growth.
  • "...the break even rate or the number of jobs we have to add each month... is decreasing. That's because the labor force is decreasing." (Elizabeth Renter, 09:12)

Notable Quote

"...The economy continues to grow according to the GDP figures."
— Elizabeth Renter (07:34)

3. Consumer Sentiment & Real World Inflation

• Disconnect Between Sentiment and Behavior:
  Consumers are spending robustly, but sentiment is weak due to ongoing price pressures, especially on essentials like food and gas.
  • "Consumers are feeling a bit of a burn more than that headline number would have you believe." (Elizabeth Renter, 06:49)
  • "The consumer sentiment numbers went down because of inflation... when you go to the grocery store, it's all just inflation legislation to you." (Michael McKee, 05:47)
• Tariffs, Gas, and Grocery Prices:
  Even when inflationary pressures arise from different sources (tariffs, gas, meat, turkey), it’s all felt similarly by average Americans.

Memorable Exchange

"My people are my husband and my daughter. But man, they brought some steaks and I was like, how much did they cost? When they told me, I was like, whoa."
— Carol Massar (06:14)

---

4. Legal Spotlight: James Comey Indictment

• Unusual Charges & Political Context:
  Former FBI Director James Comey has been charged with lying to Congress and obstruction, relating to 2020 testimony about leaks involving Andrew McCabe.
  • "The charges are highly unusual. There's two charges against Comey... related to testimony he gave in September of 2020." (Chris Strohm, 14:14)
• Inspector General’s Prior Findings:
  The Justice Department Inspector General found Comey was truthful and that McCabe was not, although Justice is now asserting otherwise.
  • "To our knowledge, there's no new information that would prove Comey was lying." (Chris Strohm, 16:26)
• Debate Over Presidential Power and DOJ Independence:
  The broader implications center on the precedent of presidential influence over Justice Department prosecutions.
  • "Historically, the Justice Department has maintained independence from the White House... but that's largely based on norms and traditional practices." (Chris Strohm, 17:38)

Notable Quote

"There’s no law or regulation that says the president can’t interfere in prosecutions."
— Chris Strohm (17:50)

---

5. Investigative Feature: Epstein's Newly Revealed Emails

• Scope and Nature of the Emails:
  Bloomberg reviewed 18,000+ previously unseen, private emails from Epstein’s Yahoo account, offering unparalleled insight into his dealings.
  • "These are private emails... This is new stuff and it’s from a private email address." (Max Abelson, 22:12)
• Insights Into Influence:
  The correspondence reveals the breadth and depth of Epstein’s relationships—not just with public figures, but academics, strategists, lawyers, and power brokers across the political spectrum.
  • "It's a story about money and a story about power and a story about connections." (Max Abelson, 23:19)
• Example – Seeking Crisis PR:
  In 2008, just before going to jail, Epstein sought out crisis communications help, illustrated by drafted apology letters from consultant Mary Spaythe.
  • "What do we find in these emails, but these draft apology options... one’s very meek... The third one... He cites William James." (Max Abelson, 25:04)
• Humanizing the Apology (or Not):
  Epstein never actually issued a public apology, even as his PR advisors considered it.
  • "For all we know, Epstein was really very close to saying sorry, but he did not. He did not in the sense of giving a broad apology, certainly to his victims." (Max Abelson, 27:18)

Notable Quotes

"What this story is about is in some ways... not the usual, you know, Epstein is of course in some ways a story about sex and sex crimes. But... it's really a story about money and a story about power and a story about connections."
— Max Abelson (23:19)

"There are a lot of questions about what's gonna happen now over the next few days and weeks and months with Epstein and his files."
— Max Abelson (24:35)

---

6. Markets & Investing: Valuations, IPOs, and Business Resilience

• Market Overview:
  US equities ended a streak of gains with a down week for the S&P 500, while Electronic Arts stock surged on takeover speculation.
  • "We are expecting a down week on the S&P 500 this after three consecutive weeks of gains." (Carol Massar, 30:25)
  • "Electronic Art said to be near a takeover by Silver Lake... could announce a Deal as soon as next week." (Tim Stenovec, 31:15)
• Valuations & Fundamentals:
  Stock valuations are high, but underlying earnings and GDP estimates have come down, and high valuations alone don’t end bull runs.
  • "Valuations are not what kills a bull market, nor do they revive a bear market. Things can stay over or undervalued for a great length of time." (Carol Schleife, 32:54)
• Resilience Amid Uncertainty:
  Despite concerns over tariffs, policy shifts, and geopolitical developments, both businesses and markets are demonstrating adaptability.
  • "We've urged investors to cling... to follow the fundamentals and to look at companies and to listen to what companies are doing and watch what they're doing." (Carol Schleife, 34:28)
• IPO Market & Public Company Trends:
  The locked IPO market may be easing, with thousands of mature firms potentially preparing to go public; the US now has more ETFs than publicly traded companies.
  • "Having some IPOs because we peaked in terms of public companies back in 1996... Currently there are more ETFs than there are publicly held companies in the U.S." (Carol Schleife, 38:09)

Notable Quotes

"The one theme that's been very consistent is the resiliency of businesses, the economy, and consumers."
— Carol Schleife (33:31)

---

IMPORTANT SEGMENTS & TIMESTAMPS

| Time | Topic/Segment | |-----------|-----------------------------------------------------------| | 00:54 | Opening: Inflation gauge & consumer sentiment | | 02:35 | Thomas Barkin (Richmond Fed) on policy flexibility | | 03:51 | Michael McKee: Recent economic data & Fed expectations | | 06:33 | Elizabeth Renter: Inflation’s real world impact | | 08:41 | Labor market & jobs outlook / data uncertainty (Renter) | | 14:14 | Chris Strohm on James Comey indictment | | 22:07 | Max Abelson: Epstein email revelations | | 30:25 | Market wrap: S&P 500, EA takeover speculation | | 32:54 | Carol Schleife on valuations & business resilience |

---

QUOTES HIGHLIGHT

• "Adaptive and attentive sounds like data dependent." — Carol Massar (03:18)
• "It just kind of beats those who are in the middle. For the Fed, they're probably going to be waiting till much closer to October 29th to make any kind of decision." — Michael McKee (04:28)
• "We all remember being kids and having to apologize." — Max Abelson (25:05)
• "There’s no law or regulation that says the president can’t interfere in prosecutions." — Chris Strohm (17:50)
• "Things can stay over or undervalued for a great length of time... The resiliency of businesses, the economy, and consumers." — Carol Schleife (33:31)

---

EPISODE TAKEAWAYS

• US consumers keep spending robustly, even as economic sentiment drops and inflation stays elevated.
• The Federal Reserve remains cautious and highly data-dependent, unwilling to commit to any specific path on rates.
• Labor market data is stable, but further releases could be delayed by a potential government shutdown; a shrinking labor force is a notable trend.
• James Comey’s indictment is legally and politically unprecedented, raising broader questions about the independence of the Justice Department.
• Bloomberg’s exclusive look into Epstein’s private emails reveals the full scale and diversity of his power network, underscoring America’s persistent elite entanglements.
• Stock valuations are high, but business fundamentals and adaptability are keeping markets afloat; the IPO drought may be breaking, with potential for more listings.

---

For a deeper dive into these stories, listen to the full episode or check out the related features on Bloomberg.

Transcript

[A]

Pinpointing the genetic changes that predispose us to disease Identifying the roots of mental illness Treating congenital anomalies even before birth. At Boston Children's Hospital, we're investing in children's health today to ensure the well being of adults tomorrow. As home to the world's largest pediatric research enterprise and more than 260 specialty programs, Boston Children's is where the world comes for answers. The learn [e-mail] Every business starts with an idea. How can you go from daydreamer to industry leader? Amazon Business accelerates your journey with smart business buying. Get everything you need to grow in one familiar place. From office supplies to IT essentials and maintenance tools. Amazon Business takes the buying experience you know and love from Amazon plus tools that help you save costs and make insights based decisions ready to bring your visions to life. Learn [e-mail] Hiscock Small Business Insurance Knows there is no business like your business across America, over 600,000 small businesses, from accountants and architects to photographers and yoga instructors, look to Hiscox Insurance for protection. Find flexible coverage that adapts to the needs of your small business with a fast, easy online'@hiscox.com that that's his cox.com there's no business like small business. Hiscox Small Business Insurance Bloomberg Audio Studios Podcasts Radio News this is Bloomberg businessweek Daily reporting from the magazine that helps global leaders stay ahead with insight on the people, companies and trends shaping today's complex economy. Plus global business, finance and tech news as it happens. The Bloomberg businessweek Daily podcast with Carol Massar and Tim Stanweck on Bloomberg Radio. Hey listen folks, we did get a key inflation gauge. It came out earlier this morning. It grew at a slower pace last month. We also got some data on a resilient US Consumer. We also saw incomes growing and yet US Consumer sentiment fell in the month of September to a four month low on growing concerns about the impact of high prices and personal finances. Richmond Fed President Thomas Barkin spoke with Bloomberg TV and Radio International economics and policy correspondent Michael McKee before this morning's batch of U.S. economic reports and he talked about the Fed's dual mandate and keeping an eye on all the data as it continues to come in.

[B]

It's a low hiring environment, but the labor supply is also short and you have to be very attentive to that balance because it could get out of balance, right? Similar on the inflation side you do have these cost pressures and four and a half years of inflation over target. On the other hand you're not seeing that show up and spikes in inflation in the real time numbers. We are seeing what seems to be a productivity boom. And so I think you have to be very attentive to how little we know about how each of our mandate variables is going to play out. And so, you know, I feel like very adaptive is the way to think about it as opposed and that's part of why I'm not being prescriptive into oh, it's this many cuts over this period of time because I think we're going to see and learn a lot as we go here.

[A]

Adaptive and attentive sounds like data dependent. That is Richmond Fed President Thomas Barkin earlier this morning on Bloomberg with Bloomberg TV and Radio International economics and policy correspondent Michael McKee. Mike joining us from D.C. along with Elizabeth Renter, senior economist at the personal finance company Nerd Wallet. We'll get to her in just a moment. But Mike, I do want to start with you. This morning's data drop of US Data and what you heard from Fed President Barkin, does it all kind of mesh with what we got in the latest Fed decision and commentary?

[C]

Maybe not. And that's the situation that Tom was describing is we came out of the Fed meeting thinking that they were going to do a rate cut in October and there was a good chance of another one in December. And then over the last four or five days we've gotten a number of data points that suggest that the economy may be rebounding from a summer low, maybe stronger than we thought. Second quarter growth was revised up and today we got better than expected spending numbers for from consumers. So at this point it's really hard to say what's going to happen. The one thing we know from today's PC report is that inflation is not going down. It didn't get any worse, but it is still closer to 3% than the Fed's 2% target. So it just kind of beats those who are in the middle. For the Fed, their probably going to be waiting till much closer to October 29th to make any kind of decision.

[B]

Mike, is there a shoe to drop when it comes to inflation as the as a result of tariffs? Because we did have so many companies pull forward goods purchases before tariffs hit and we just haven't seen it show up. We're going to start hearing from companies in the middle of next month for their latest earnings report, but we're not seeing the spikes in inflation like he was talking about to you.

[C]

Well, we have seen some, we've seen prices go up for Some goods. And there are expectations that we'll continue to see that. It depends, as you mentioned, on inventories and how fast those are worked down and then supply chain adjustments. It's very hard to say exactly when things are going to hit. But economists do expect, and the Fed does expect to see inflation rise over the next couple of months. Then the question is, does it go down again or does it keep going up? Because maybe the President is continuing to put on additional tariffs. The one thing that we can probably intuit is that Americans are not happy the consumer sentiment numbers went down because of inflation. And even though it doesn't have a lot to do with the President's tariffs, gasoline prices have gone up, meat prices have gone up, turkey prices have gone up there for different reasons. But when you go to the grocery store, it's all just inflation legislation to you.

[A]

Yep. I don't do a lot of the shopping in my house. My husband tends to do my job.

[B]

You've got people to do that?

[A]

No, my people are my husband and my daughter. But man, they brought some steaks and I was like, how much did they cost? When they told me, I was like, whoa. Elizabeth, come on in on this because we are continuing to get data points. How does that cross with what we did get from the Fed and your view on where the economy is and what needs to be done in terms of monetary policy?

[D]

Well, I think largely what's been said is, is accurate. You know, the Fed is trying to keep their eye on the ball. We're all trying to our eye on the ball, but there's a lot of balls in the air right now and some of them are flying in completely different directions. So it's really hard to suss out where things are headed when it comes to inflation. Yes, it ticked up just slightly, but it's not showing real acceleration right now. To your point, consumers are feeling a bit of a burn more than that headline number would have you believe. You know, food inflation rose last month according to today's data. And that's something we all interact with on a weekly, if not daily basis. We see that number. And so that's definitely playing into consumer sentiment. We also, we're more exposed to all of this talk about the economy. Right. We're all talking a lot about when inflation is going to pick back up the impact of tariffs. And so that's in the back of consumers heads as well. So they anticipate a lot of potentially bad stuff happening. As of yet. We haven't, haven't seen it translate into Reduced spending from a big picture overall, I'd say this week we got some more of those mixed messages though.

[E]

Right.

[D]

Consumer spending is strong despite weak sentiment. The economy continues to grow according to the GDP P figures. I say if there's some, there's some good news out of this week in addition to the consumer spending is that the initial claims came down, the unemployment claims. So that's a bright spot, I suppose, on the recent past labor market.

[A]

You know, I'm thinking of a conversation that Tim and I had yesterday with the CFO of a firm. Right. And we talked to the CEO just a couple of weeks ago and they're saying they're pretty busy. There's a lot of activity on their platform. We were thinking, well, wait a minute, how does this mesh with maybe a slowdown in consumer, you know, concerns about the consumer. And they were our own Stewart Paul kind of weighing in that, well, what's happening is people are buying, but they're buying and taking longer to pay for things. And that's making use of that.

[B]

Like essentially if he sees a service such as though that being used, then it could be a sign about the way the consumer is feeling. Elizabeth, I want to go to you on next week and the nonfarm payrolls print that we're expecting a week from now we'll be sitting here talking about that number. 50,000 is the number of jobs that economists surveyed by Bloomberg expect to be added to the economy. How is the labor market in your view?

[D]

The labor market is hanging in there. You know, I think the big question next week is not only what we're going to see in the jobs data, but if we're going to see the jobs data. You know, if, if the.

[A]

I saw that story. Right. If there's a shutdown, the BLS would delay the next US Jobs report. Right.

[D]

And this is crucial data for monetary policy, as you all know. I mean, ideally, if there is a shutdown, it will be brief as recent ones have been, and the Fed will still have that data in hand before their next meeting, regardless of when we get it. I anticip that data is going to show, you know, weaker job growth as we've seen over the past several months. But I do believe the unemployment rate is going to remain relatively steady. The break even rate or the number of jobs we have to add each month in order for the unemployment rate to remain steady is decreasing. And that's because the labor force is decreasing. Right. We know we're not getting as many immigrants right now and some immigrants that were already here, already working, maybe leaving the workforce, the magnitude of that a little uncertain. But I do believe that's going to help hold that unemployment rate where it is.

[A]

Mike, saving 30 seconds for you because I think we have to bring up Fed Governor Lisa Cook, this case before the Supreme Court. President Trump wants the Supreme Court to I guess give him the okay to fire her. She's fighting it as well. Just quickly, what do we know? What might we get in terms of news either today or potentially over the weekend?

[C]

Well, a decision could come any time by the court and they have tended to move quickly in these Trump firing officials cases. Except that in this case there are a lot of Nikkei filings, friends of the court filings that the, the justices may want to wade through. And also we've seen in a couple of controversial cases that some justices want to dissent. And so that takes some time to write. So we don't exactly know when we are going to get this decision. If the court allows her to stay in the job, then we kind of lose the headlines for a year or so while it goes through lower courts. And if they fire her, then of course we'll be back here immediately talking with you about what happens next to the Fed.

[A]

Right. And we talk about whether or not we have an independent Fed anymore. All right, Mike McKee, thank you so much there in D.C. bloomberg's Mike McKee along with Elizabeth Rent, our senior economist at Nerd Wallet.

[B]

Stay with us. More from Bloomberg Businessweek Daily. Coming up after this.

[A]

Pinpointing the genetic changes that predispose us to disease, identifying the roots of mental illness, treating congenital anomalies even before birth. At Boston Children's Hospital, we're investing in children's health today to ensure the well being of adults tomorrow. As home to the world's largest pediatric research enterprise and more than 260 specialty programs, Boston Children's is where the world comes for answers. Learn [e-mail].

[F]

This is the Small Business Minute brought to you by Amazon Ads. I'm Lisa Mateo. Credit card perks offered to small business customers include cash back and travel rewards. But the feature many business owners find the most attractive is a high credit limit. Nearly half of all the small and medium sized businesses surveyed by payments.com and payments processor i2b said so. But the smaller and younger the business, the more likely higher credit limits were at the top of the priority list. The survey also found small business owners using business and personal credit cards to finance their operations. And nearly half of the smaller and younger businesses were carrying card balances over each month. Payments.com and i2b say the survey speaks to the need for alternative credit solutions tailored to the needs of small businesses. That was the Small Business Minute brought to you by Amazon Ads helping you reach relevant audiences through streaming TV ad solutions. These days, AI can help you write emails, summarize long meetings, and even create presentations that impress your most demanding customer. But how about industrial AI that uses data and simulation to boost productivity on the shop floor? AI tools that help you understand machine language. AI that helps you grow your business. With Siemens Xcelerator, you can use AI services, software and consulting from a single trusted digital business platform. Plus, you can find the right AI partner without having to search through hundreds of providers. That's AI for real. From the global market leader in industrial AI to Siemens accelerator learn more at Siemens US slash accelerator.

[A]

You're listening to the Bloomberg Businessweek Daily podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5 Eastern. Listen on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app or watch us live on YouTube. While former FBI Director James Comey has been charged with lying to Congress and obstruction related to testimony, testimony he gave in 2020 accelerating President Trump's push for legal action against his perceived political enemies. Now after the indictment, Comey said in a video on Instagram that he is not afraid. His lawyer to Tim has come out with a statement.

[B]

Yeah, his lawyer said Jim Comey denies the charges filed in their entirety. We look forward to vindicating him in the courtroom. I want to bring in Bloomberg News Justice Department reporter Chris Strome. He joins us from Washington, D.C. chris, a relatively short indictment. What exactly is James Comey alleged to have done?

[G]

Well, the process here is highly unusual. The charges are highly unusual. There's two charges against Comey. It's for lying and obstructing a congressional proceeding related to testimony he gave in September of 2020, which was just about five years ago, which was right up against the statute of limitations for DOJ to go get these charges.

[A]

So I got to say, all of us are, I think, doing a deep dive to try and remember. I can't even remember what happened on Monday. So to think about what happened in five years ago. Although when you start doing it, you like, oh yeah, I think Monday.

[B]

Monday was the Tylenol press conference was that's all I remember.

[A]

Well done, well done. So. But Chris, take us back there and what it is that he is charged with lying about.

[G]

Yeah. So during the hearing, it was before the Senate Judiciary Committee, he was asked about A situation in which his deputy, Andrew McCabe, had leaked information to the Wall Street Journal about Hillary Clinton. And he, Comey, was asked if he stood by previous testimony he had given that he didn't authorize the leak, and he said he did. Now, the Justice Department is trying to say that Comey wasn't telling the truth because he was involved in authorizing the leak. And it goes back actually to 2016, when there was a dispute between Comey and his deputy, Andrew McCabe, regarding the leak. McCabe had said that Comey approved of the leak after the Wall Street Journal reported on it, and Comey said he had no memory of that. The Justice Department inspector general looked into this and issued a report that found that Comey was telling the truth and McCabe was lying about it. And so, essentially, Comey was reiterating that he had no knowledge of the leak. But the Justice Department is trying to say, well, Andrew McCabe said you did have knowledge of the leak, and so therefore, we are going to charge you with lying. Now, the Justice Department might have some additional information, but this has been well investigated, and to our knowledge, there's no new information that would, that would prove Comey was lying.

[B]

So it raises the question. And back to what Patrick Fitzgerald, the lawyer for James Comey, said. He denies the charges filed, and we look forward to vindicating him in the courtroom. Does it, does it make it to a courtroom?

[G]

It's hard to know at this point. Comey is going to have an initial appearance on October 9th. I'm sure that his lawyers are going to move to just dismiss the charges before they ever go to trial. Getting charges dismissed is very difficult. So it's, it's, it's, you know, probably more likely that, that they will end up going to trial. I would expect Comey and his lawyers to call for a quick trial because they believe the facts are on their side and that Comey can get acquitted.

[A]

What about a history lesson for everybody, a civics lesson for everybody? I mean, do presidential powers extend to something like this and using the Justice Department to maybe go after presidential foes?

[G]

Well, this has been one of the raging debates under the Trump administration, both the first Trump administration, but definitely under the second administration. How far do Trump's powers go as president? Now, Trump will say that he controls the Justice Department, that he can order prosecutions, that he is the chief law enforcement officer. Historically, the Justice Department has maintained independence from the White House and from the president, but that's largely based on norms and traditional practices. There's no law or regulation that says the president can't interfere in prosecutions.

[A]

Yeah, I guess I would say some presidential historians would also suggest that maybe you Google the Watergate, like at this point. Right.

[B]

Like, well, that time you had a lot of pushback from Republican senators who made their way to the White House. And we haven't heard that this time around.

[A]

Right. So like, we'll see. Right. We'll just have to, I guess, kind of wait and see how this plays out. Interesting story. Another one certainly on our mind. Chris, thank you so much for running through it for us. Chris Strom, he's Justice Department, Justice Department reporter joining us from Washington, D.C. stay with us.

[B]

More from Bloomberg Businessweek Daily coming up after this.

[F]

This is the Small Business Minute, brought to you by Amazon Ads. I'm Lisa Mateo. Credit card perks offered to small business customers include cash back and travel rewards. But the feature many business owners find the most attractive is a high credit limit. Nearly half of all the small and medium sized businesses surveyed by payments.com and paymentspro processor i2b said so. But the smaller and younger the business, the more likely higher credit limits were at the top of the priority list. The survey also found small business owners using business and personal credit cards to finance their operations. And nearly half of the smaller and younger businesses were carrying card balances over each month. Payments.com and i2b say the survey speaks to the need for alternative credit solutions tailored to the needs of small businesses. That was the Small Business Minute brought to you by Amazon Ads helping you reach relevant audiences through streaming TV ad solutions. These days, AI can help you write emails, summarize long meetings, and even create presentations that impress your most demanding customer. But how about industrial AI that uses data and simulation to boost productivity on the shop floor? AI tools that help you understand machine language. AI that helps you grow your business. With Siemens Xcelerator, you can use AI services, software and consulting from a single trusted digital business platform. Plus, you can find the right AI partner without having to search through hundreds of providers. That's AI for real from the global market leader in industrial AI, Siemens Xcelerator. Learn more at Siemens US Accelerator.

[B]

So have you heard the story about the prescription plan? With savings automatically built in, it's where a family of any size can feel confident the cost of their medication won't hold them back. Go to CMK Co Stories to learn how CVS Caremark helps members save just by being members. That's CMK Co Stories.

[A]

You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week daily podcast. Catch us Live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5 Eastern Eastern. Listen on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app or watch us live on YouTube.

[B]

In the meantime, we continue to piece together the life of Jeffrey Epstein. Bloomberg News has gone through more than 18,000 emails from Epstein's personal Yahoo account that was obtained by Bloomberg News. That cash revealing, Carol, a sweeping array of details about not just his public life, but his private life as well.

[A]

Exactly. We want to get into it. It is today's Bloomberg big take. Bloomberg News finance reporter Max Abelson, part of the team who wrote it. He's here in studio. Max, so good to have you here. Another incredible read. It is among our most read stories on the Bloomberg. First of all, step back. We've been covering this, right? These emails remind everybody the emails that Bloomberg got access to what you guys have been going through.

[E]

Yeah, that's right. It's been one of the Highlights of my 20 years in journalism to be a part of this team with Siri Matu and Jason Leopold and Eva Benny Morris and many others. So you know, Epstein, who remains so profoundly central to the public imagination and yet such a profound enigma, Bloomberg News obtained, you know, Thousands more than 10,000, more than 18,000 emails. And I want to be clear, these are, these are private emails. These aren't things that have been recycled through. It's not things everyone knows about. This is new stuff and it's from a private email address. Actually, for example, there was one email where someone says, listen, I need to talk to you about something private. What email would be good? And he writes back and says this one to give you a sense of what we're talking about here. And my colleagues, including Harry Wilson and others, did some really remarkable reporting on Peter Mendelsohn, who lost his job as the UK Ambassador to the United States exactly in the week of their story. And Betty Morrison and, and Jason Leopold have done, and others have done great work on Gillian Maxwell and really carefully showing that her relationship to Epstein was just, just much deeper and their partnership was much closer than either either have had admitted. And what this story which I wrote with this, this wonderful team, what this story is about is in some ways, I hope, you know, not the usual, you know, Epstein is of course in some ways a story about sex and sex crimes. But I think what you'll find is that what this story is about is about what I, what I cover. It's, it's really a story about money and a story about power and a story about connections. And that's how we talked about it with. With our editors, including Lauren Etter.

[A]

And it's a. But can I just pop in, in that there's a bunch of people pictures. And I'll be honest with you, I think when we both look, I didn't recognize most of them.

[B]

Well, that's what I think was so notable about this. I mean, there are certainly the. The names that have been associated with Epstein for years, like Alan Dershowitz, for example, and there's new information, new emails from there, and a couple conversation that your team had with him about that. But there's also a name that I'd never seen before, Mary Spay. That somebody who's a crisis strategist. She was director of media relations at one time for the White House under Ronald Reagan. What did she. What role did she serve?

[E]

Well, thanks for that question, because I think what's special about the piece, and I hope viewers and listeners check it out. I think what. What makes it a valuable piece of journalism, especially at this moment, when Epstein is really in the news and is all of a sudden has gone from being an exclamation point to a real question mark. And there are a lot of questions about what's gonna happen now over the next few days and weeks and months with Epstein and his files. What our story is about and why Mary Spaith comes up is that it's about the depth and the breadth of his relationships. And, you know, it is not a story about Republicans versus a story about Democrats. It's a story about powerful people.

[A]

People.

[E]

And it's a story about different kinds of power. It's a story about academics and researchers, people who made it make it into high elite echelons of the intellectual life. It's about people who offer, like Mary Spaythe offers basically strategy for people who are in trouble, crisis strategy, public relations. And it's a story about counselors and lawyers. And to answer your question about Mary, there was a point, believe it or not, where investigators are closing in. Jeffrey Epstein, this is early 2008. He's about to go to jail for the. It's like about a year. It's a little bit longer than a year. And after that, he's a free man for a very long time. I think about a decade until the 2019 charge, sex trafficking. And then he dies. He's found dead in prison or jail right after that. But back in 2008, investigators are circling. Epstein's in trouble. And what do we find in these emails, but these draft apology options where she sends him three different kinds of apologies. One is, one's very meek, talks about his memories of being a kid. Actually, I found it very deep. You know, all of us remember being kids and having to apologize. Second one is very short. It's really terse. But the third one, the word we use is elegiac and is he cites William James. I'm hoping it's the first Bloomberg News story that calls out William James, 19th century American philosopher, talks about the hour of terror and the hour of satiety. How about that word? And he talks about the American dream, talks about the American dream and his substantial rewards. And he says this is a public and heartfelt apology.

[B]

I just want to say space firm was hired through a lawyer to provide communications options for Mr. Epstein and his legal team. She said in response to questions for the story, she said, quote, I ultimately terminated the engagement because of my discomfort with it.

[E]

That's, that's right. That's right. Thanks. Thanks for saying that. I think it's really important out of fairness that we add things like that. And, and you know, you know, she also said, you know, because of confidentiality and privilege, she can't comment further. But you know, we don't know, we don't know what was going on here. I want to be clear with our viewers. You know, for all we know, Epstein was really very close to saying sorry, but he did not. He did not in the sense of giving a broad apology certainly to his victims. And I want to be clear, the U.S. department of justice says there are more than a thousand of them, more than a thousand of them. And Epstein did not give a heartfelt William James quoting apology as far as we know. But our story shows what it is could have potentially sounded like if he had.

[A]

It's why we say there are so many questions still out there. And you guys, by going through these emails, maybe there's not direct conclusions, but you start to piece together, you know, kind of a little bit more of the life around Jeffrey Epstein. Max, thank you as always, Max Abelson. Abelson, he's finance reporter at Bloomberg News. This is the big take. Check it out on the Bloomberg.

[B]

Stay with us. More from Bloomberg businessweek Daily coming up after this.

[F]

This is the Small Business Minute brought to you by Amazon Ads. I'm Lisa Mateo. Credit card perks offered to small business customers include cash back and travel rewards. But the feature many business owners find the most attractive is a high credit limit. Nearly half of all the small and medium sized businesses surveyed by payments.com and payments processor Iteration B said so. But the smaller and younger the business, the more likely higher credit limits were at the top of the priority list. The survey also found small business owners using business and personal credit cards to finance their operations, and nearly half of the smaller and younger businesses were carrying card balances over each month. Payments.com and i2b say the survey speaks to the need for alternative credit solutions tailored to the needs of small businesses. That was the Small Business Minute brought to you by Amazon Ads Helping you reach relevant audiences through streaming TV ad solutions these days, AI can help you write emails, summarize long meetings, and even create presentations that impress your most demanding customer. But how about industrial AI that uses data and simulation to boost productivity on the shop floor? AI tools that help you understand machine language? AI that helps you grow your business. With Siemens Xcelerator, you can use AI services, software and consulting from a single, trusted digital business platform. Plus, you can find the right AI partner without having to search through hundreds of providers. That's AI for real from the global market leader in industrial AI, Siemens xcelerator. Learn more at Siemens US Accelerator so.

[B]

Have you heard the story about the prescription plan? With savings automatically built in, it's where a family of any size can feel confident the cost of their medication won't hold them back. Go to CMK Co Stories to learn how CBS Caremark helps members save just by being members. That's CMK Co Stories.

[A]

You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5 Eastern Eastern. Listen on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app or watch us live on YouTube. All right, tick tock everybody. Just about 1819 minutes to go until we wrap up the trade for the day and for the week overall, we are expecting a down week on the S&P 500 this after three consecutive weeks of gains. However, there is one name that is definitely on our radar. I've had to play around with the gainers that I'm going to talk about with my TV colleagues because as soon as we saw the headline popping about electronic art said to be near a takeover by Silver Lake initially reported by the Wall Street Journal, this is about a $50 billion maybe deal to go private.

[B]

That's big.

[A]

That according to people familiar that would be massive.

[B]

It's not just Silver Lake, but also Saudi Arabia's public investment fund. This according to people with knowledge of the matter. The video game maker is known for Madden NFL, the Sims and then Carol's favorite Battlefield. I walk by every plane that all the time love it could announce a Deal as soon as next week, said the person who asked not to be identified discussing confidential information.

[A]

Stock up about 14% as we speak. So we said it could be a $50 billion take private right now, the market cap at 48.2 billion. All right, let's talk about. Not necessarily that, unless she wants to, but let's talk about the stocks overall for the day, for the week. Carol Schleife is back with us, chief market strategist at BMO Private wealth, joining us from Minneapolis. BMO Private wealth, by the way, $315 billion in assets under management. And I got to say, if you're lucky enough to have a 401k and you've looked at it recently and you're buying the market, Carol, you're pretty happy.

[H]

It's thumbs up. Yeah, yeah, you're pretty happy. And it, it almost doesn't matter what segment you're in. And it's actually better to have spread it around this year because in in particular, diversification, which we preach all the time, is work. It definitely worked this year.

[B]

So let's, let's talk a little bit about valuations because earlier this week we heard from Fed J.J. powell. He was asked about stock valuations. There was not an irrational exuberance moment. No, no, there was not.

[C]

No.

[B]

He did say it's not a time of elevated financial stability risks. But he also said, Carol, CAROL S. Some asset prices elevated versus historical levels. And by many measures, equity prices are fairly highly valued. Is he right?

[H]

Yeah, they're rich. But it's also important to put the caveat in there. And actually, the piece I wrote this week for our field was called Bear Hunting, and we talked about valuations in there. And one of the things it's important to recall is that valuations are not what kills a bear market, nor do they, or kills a bull market, nor do they revive a bear market. Things can stay over or undervalued for a great length of time, and it's usually something structural that breaks, that brings markets down. And so, yes, the valuations are high, but earnings estimates and GDP estimates have been brought down low because no one knows exactly how to, how to filter through all the impacts of everything thrown at us this year. And the one theme that's been very consistent is the resiliency of businesses, the economy and consumers.

[A]

You know, it's kind of wacky, right? Like we just, in terms of the moods of this market, like you go back to January and I think we weren't, you know, we were still in the biden economy and people were still talking about US Exceptionalism. And then we got the inauguration and the White House started, you know, implementing executive orders and different initiatives. And then, of course, the tariffs. And we saw stocks sell off, and then we've seen the bounce back as things kind of eased. When it comes to tariffs, it's just been kind of all over the place. Is there a dynamic, though, to this market that you kind of can cling to?

[H]

I think the dynamic we've been clinging to, and the thing we've urged investors to cling to all year, is to follow the fundamentals and to look at companies and to listen to what companies are doing and watch what they're doing. And it's interesting because we also had, in addition to all of that, we also had the big disconnect between the hard data and the soft data for a long time, or the sentiment. And you still see inklings of that, particularly among consumers. But we've also encouraged clients to step back and think through. This is really the mirror image of what you had in Trump 1.0, where when he came in there, you had a lot of really optimistic things going on with the economy. And then we had tariffs hit in the back half of that. And then we had Covid, and everybody has collective lack of recall of what came before COVID in a lot of cases this time around. If you recall, after the election and into early January, we came in with a lot of optimism. Wall street staffed up thinking we were going to have all the M and A and IPOs and all of that go on. And then we got hit all of a sudden with tariffs and trade policy and geopolitical issues. And markets took a step back and looked at that. And now we're back to where a lot of that stuff's pushed aside. Markets are desperately trying to get to the other side of tariffs and focus on something else, but businesses through it all. And that's one of the advantages we have, is that we bank multigenerational businesses and we also manage the money for those businesses when the liquidity events happen. And so we're plugged into a lot of that. And when we talk to the business owners and the commercial teams we have that serve those. Those business owners, they've told us throughout that they're adapting and adopting as best they can, and they're nervous, but they still have to grow and they have to continue to do business because they have shareholders and bankers and employees.

[B]

What are they nervous about?

[H]

I think they're just nervous like anybody else trying to Figure out, you know, where does the next policy change or shift come from?

[B]

Where there's, I think the answer is true social. That's where it comes from.

[H]

Maybe it's social media. But the hard part is it amplifies moves too. And even when you go do a search on social media, your search is going to feed you your personal preferences, if you will. You have to be active about searching a variety of sources or active about searching out something that's going to be neutral and down the middle. And so it's definitely been a challenging year, but it's a bit process of having to write every week really helps because we're trying to sort through the. Okay of all of this stuff going on.

[A]

Right.

[H]

What is impact for portfolios moving forward, Carol?

[A]

But I thought it was interesting that you said that the work that you guys are doing for businesses that even though there's some concerns and uncertainty and fears out there, that they're making decisions. Right. Because they have to run a business. And if it's a competitive world, as we all know, and if they kind of delay, miss something, there's potential that they're going to lose share. Right. And they're going to fall behind. Yes. So that they're pulling, you know, that they're actually moving ahead with things. Even like we see the IPO market. That's a good sign.

[H]

Yeah, it's a great sign. And we've been talking about for some time when you look at the stats of what's out there, because we've had such a locked up IPO market for such a long time. I've seen some estimates recently of as many as 30,000 companies that are revenue and earnings generated, mature companies in venture capital and private capital portfolios, if even 1% of those go public. The other thing that's really interesting is when you were tracking the earnings as they came in the second quarter, they're technically, according to Bloomberg, there were only 497 names in the S&P 500. So we've had this net reduction of public companies out there. And so having some IPOs because we peaked in terms of public companies back in 1996, I think it was. And currently there are more ETFs than there are publicly held companies in the U.S. interesting.

[A]

Wait, all right, wait, we gotta go. But we gotta come back on that point at some in the future because I think it's an interesting dynamic to this market and what it, what it says. Carol, thanks. Glad we could reconnect. Carol Schleife, she's Chief Market Strategist at BMO Private wealth joining us from Minneapolis. This is the Bloomberg businessweek Daily Podcast available on Apple, Spotify and anywhere else you get. Your podcasts listen live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5pm eastern on bloomberg.com the iHeartRadio app, tune in and the Bloomberg Business App. You can also watch us live Every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg Terminal. How can you free your team from time consuming office tasks? Amazon Business empowers leaders to not only streamline purchasing, but better support their teams. Smart business buying tools enable buyers to find and purchase items fast so they can focus on strategy and growth. It's time to free up your teams and focus on your future. Learn more about the technology, insights and Support [e-mail] these days.

[H]

AI can help you adopt better time management, but it can't stop colleagues booking meetings during lunch. But how about being able to easily adopt industrial AI to streamline your business?

[A]

Siemens Xcelerator helps you find the right AI providers and easily understand what they.

[H]

Offer so you can use modular solutions to quickly scale up and grow your business. That's AI for real from the global market leader in industrial AI, Siemens. Learn more on USA.siemens.com AI promotional products.

[F]

Aren'T just giveaways, they're strategic brand tools. That's why so many businesses turn to four Imprint with thousands of customizable options from premium apparel, drinkware, tech totes and more for Imprint offers the variety to fit your goals and budget. Many items come with no setup charge to help you maximize value Even more. With expert support, fast Turnaround and a 360 degree guarantee, you can be for Imprint certain your order will be done right on time. Explore [e-mail] 4imprint for certain.