Estée Lauder in Talks to Buy Puig to Create Beauty Giant

Summary

Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast

Episode: Estée Lauder in Talks to Buy Puig to Create Beauty Giant
Date: March 24, 2026
Hosts: Paul Sweeney & Scarlet Fu
Key Guests: Clara Lizaraga (Bloomberg News, Madrid), Steve Mann (BI Global Autos & Industrials), Jennifer Reed (Senior Litigation Analyst, BI), Sam Fazelli (BI Director of Research, Senior Pharma Analyst)

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Episode Overview

This episode focuses on major M&A activity in the beauty, media, automotive, and healthcare sectors, with a deep dive into Estée Lauder’s potential acquisition of Puig—a move that could reshape the global cosmetics and fragrance landscape. The hosts also explore regulatory challenges in media M&A, recession risks for US autos, and recent biotech developments in Lyme disease treatment.

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Segment 1: Estée Lauder in Talks to Buy Puig – Creating a Beauty Giant

Guest: Clara Lizaraga, Bloomberg News (Madrid)
[02:08–07:32]

Main Theme:
Estée Lauder's ongoing negotiations to acquire Puig, a family-owned Spanish company famed for its top fragrance brands, in a bid to boost its global market presence and compete with giants like L'Oréal.

Key Discussion Points

• Puig’s Market Position & Strategic Fit

  • Puig derives most revenue from fragrances, owning top brands: Carolina Herrera, Rabanne, Jean Paul Gaultier, Nina Ricci.
  • “For Estée Lauder, it would help strengthen their position in this category of fragrances where they currently get about 17% of their revenues.” — Clara Lizaraga [02:39]
  • The deal would create a dominant global beauty company (~$20B in annual sales), increasing exposure in Europe and Latin America for Estée Lauder.

• Estée Lauder’s Corporate Strategy Concern

  • The company is currently reorganizing and focusing on streamlining, high-end products.
  • “There are questions about whether a deal with Puig would one be the right fit and also would be the right timing, considering these other complex problems need to be resolved.” — Clara Lizaraga [03:38]
  • Market skepticism reflected in falling Estée Lauder shares post-announcement.

• Family Dynamics & Potential Succession

  • Puig is family-controlled (third generation), owning >90% of voting rights.
  • The recent IPO aimed at succession planning, letting family stay as owners but move away from operational roles.
  • “It is surprising to think that the family would relinquish control over this company, which is over 100 years old.” — Clara Lizaraga [04:50]

• Fashion vs. Fragrance Business

  • Puig’s brands bridge fashion and fragrance; separating these is challenging.
  • Niche luxury brands like Byredo may be especially attractive to Estée Lauder, though questions remain about scaling such businesses.
  • “It’s hard to separate the fashion from the fragrance. I think in that sense it would be complementary to Estée Lauder.” — Clara Lizaraga [06:08]

• Regulatory Concerns

  • Potential antitrust issues exist, especially regarding Puig’s Charlotte Tilbury (third largest US makeup brand), though less so in fragrances.
  • “There could be issues on that [makeup] front. But on the fragrance brands front, I think it’s — there’s not a problem.” — Clara Lizaraga [07:13]

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Segment 2: Macro & Sector Insights – Recession Watch and US Autos

Guest: Steve Mann, Global Autos & Industrials Analyst, BI
[10:23–14:08]

Main Theme:
Anticipating the impact of potential recession and geopolitical shocks on the cyclical US auto industry in 2026, especially amidst the transition to electric vehicles.

Key Discussion Points

• Oil Shock & Consumer Shifts

  • War in Iran drives gas prices up 30–40%; oil at $150/barrel.
  • “Now the talk is, you know, are they going to sell that many pickup trucks and SUVs?” — Steve Mann [11:59]

• Interest Rates & Consumer Behavior

  • Higher rates make car loans more expensive, prompting some to keep vehicles longer or purchase used cars; benefits aftermarket companies like O’Reilly, AutoZone.
  • “A lot of consumers…will hold off, even if interest rates are lower, they want to make sure jobs are stable before they spend $20,000, $30,000, $40,000.” — Steve Mann [12:28]

• Average Car Price

  • “Average is $50,000.” — Steve Mann [13:04]

• Potential Revival for EVs and Hybrids

  • Oil shocks historically increase hybrid/EV demand.
  • Worst-case scenario: auto sales could drop 15% in the US.
  • “If oil prices are high…people will be more interested in hybrids and, this time around, battery EVs as well.” — Steve Mann [13:27]

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Segment 3: Media M&A – Nextstar’s Acquisition of Tegna and State Resistance

Guest: Jennifer Reed, Senior Litigation Analyst, BI
[16:33–22:27]

Main Theme:
Examining the unusual pushback by US states against large, regulator-approved media mergers, focusing on Nextstar’s purchase of Tegna, and the broader implications for antitrust enforcement under a second Trump administration.

Key Discussion Points

• Changing Regulatory Environment

  • “It’s going to be a very good time to get M&A done…regulators may be more accommodative.” — Paul [16:33]

• States Step Up Antitrust Action

  • Even after DOJ and FCC clearances, eight states (mostly Democratic) contest the deal.
  • “States have the right to enforce federal antitrust laws…try to see what we can do here.” — Jennifer Reed [17:32]
  • Comparable to state action post T-Mobile/Sprint merger, which ultimately failed.

• Unwinding Completed Mergers?

  • Risk of a judge forcing Nextstar to unwind the deal is “low”; more likely ordered divestitures in local markets if found anti-competitive.
  • “My guess would be the more likely outcome would be some divestitures of stations…” — Jennifer Reed [20:39]

• Market Definitions and Antitrust Harm

  • Despite streaming advances, traditional concerns about local market concentration and consumer harms remain valid under current law.
  • “If you have a discrete set of consumers that could be harmed because prices go up, it can still be an antitrust harm.” — Jennifer Reed [21:33]

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Segment 4: Healthcare & Biotech – Pfizer’s Lyme Disease Vaccine

Guest: Sam Fazelli, Director of Research & Senior Pharma Analyst, BI
[25:18–30:12]

Main Theme:
Pfizer’s partnership with Valneva produces moderate results in developing a Lyme disease vaccine, against the backdrop of declining research investment and political interference in university science during Trump’s second term.

Key Discussion Points

• Science and Market for Lyme Disease Vaccines

  • Only one vaccine (by GSK) was ever marketed in the US (1990s); none now available for humans.
  • Pfizer/Valneva phase results: 73% efficacy (comparable to current COVID vaccines' effectiveness).
  • “73% is not particularly high. So it’ll be interesting to see what the regulators say about this.” — Sam Fazelli [27:14]
  • Open questions: duration, need for boosters, and real-world demand when vaccine hesitancy in general remains high.

• Impact of Political Interference on Research

  • Federal grant delays and new uncertainties with university funding under the Trump administration.
  • “There has been some more uncertainty created, funds not being released…number of people seeking to do PhDs in the STEM world has declined…that’s really not helpful.” — Sam Fazelli [29:02]

Notable Moment

• “It is this foundation of science that then builds the future innovations…I don’t think that’s rocket science, right?” — Sam Fazelli [29:24]

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Fragrance M&A:
  “It is surprising to think that the family would relinquish control over this company, which is over 100 years old.” — Clara Lizaraga [04:50]

• On US Autos:
  “Average [new car price] is $50,000.” — Steve Mann [13:04]
  “If oil prices are high…people will be more interested in hybrids and this time around, battery EVs as well.” — Steve Mann [13:27]

• On Antitrust Enforcement:
  “Once you have the federal regulators that have approved these deals, it is very difficult for the states to…convince a judge that the experts that cleared the deal were wrong.” — Jennifer Reed [18:55]

• On Science Funding:
  “It is this foundation of science that then builds the future innovations…I don’t think that’s rocket science, right?” — Sam Fazelli [29:24]

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:08] Estée Lauder’s bid for Puig, with Clara Lizaraga
• [10:23] Recession scenario and US auto sector, with Steve Mann
• [16:33] Media M&A and state regulation, with Jennifer Reed
• [25:18] Pfizer’s Lyme Disease vaccine and research funding, with Sam Fazelli

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Summary Takeaways

• Estée Lauder’s Puig move is bold but risky, possibly yielding major growth in fragrance and luxury—if strategic timing and family ownership complexities can be overcome.
• US autos brace for macro headwinds, with high oil and interest rates prompting lasting shifts in consumer behavior.
• In M&A, states are increasingly stepping into regulatory shoes, challenging deals even after federal approval, signaling an evolving—and politically charged—antitrust landscape.
• Vaccine development for neglected diseases like Lyme is scientifically promising but faces both efficacy and adoption hurdles, further complicated by political uncertainty in research funding.

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This episode delivers a sweeping view of strategic deals, market risks, and policy shifts shaping the global business environment in 2026, enriched by expert voices across key sectors.

Transcript

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[Paul (Podcast Host)]

Kind of a merger Tuesday, if you will. Estee Lauder Companies is in talk to buy Pooj Brands in a deal that would create a cosmetics giant with about $20 billion in annual sales here. Let's get some more details on this transaction. We're joined by Clara Lizaraga. She is companies reporter for Bloomberg News. She is based in Madrid. Claire, tell us a little bit about Pooj brands. Who are they and why do you think Estee Lauder is in talks to acquire them?

[Clara Lizaraga]

People, thank you for having me. So Pooj, unlike Estee Lauder, gets most of its revenues from Fragrances. It owns major brands like Carolina, Reda, Robin, Jean Paul Gautier and these are brands that have products that have consistently been Amongst the top 10 best selling fragrances. So for Estee Lauder, it would help strengthen their position in this category of fragrances where they currently get about 17% of their revenues. And as you said, it would create a much larger company with a stronger exposure to Europe and Latin America and help it compete more efficiently against rivals like l'. Oreal. L', Oreal, for example.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

So Clara, I guess the thing with Estee Lauder is that this is a company in reorganization mode. It's got this plan to focus on niche luxury priced fragrances. Does buying pooch fit into that very specific strategy?

[Clara Lizaraga]

Well, exactly. So this is, these are some of the questions that have that have been asked today. So whether this is the right time for estate loader. Because they're in the middle of streamlining operations, they were at some point reviewing underperforming brands to see if they could divest from some of them and focusing on higher end, more profitable products. So there are questions about whether a deal with Pujna would one be the right fit and also would be the right timing considering these other complex problems need to be resolved. The reaction so far. So Estee Lauder shares have been falling yesterday and again today. So it would seem that these concerns are definitely weighing in.

[Paul (Podcast Host)]

And Poosh is a family owned. I know the, the CEO Mark Pusch, a member of the founding family, did give up that role, but is executive chairman. What role does the, the family play in this company?

[Clara Lizaraga]

So the family owns most of the capital and, and over 90% of their voting rights.

[Paul (Podcast Host)]

Okay.

[Clara Lizaraga]

This is the third generation of the family. And part of the reasons behind the IPO that happened less than two years, that they wanted to plan succession and prevent any tensions that could arise relating to generational change. By listing the company and making sure that the, you know, the future generations would be owners of the company, but not necessarily in operational roles. So in that sense, a deal could go in further in that direction. But it also is surprising to think that the family would relinquish control over this company, which is over 100 years old.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Yeah, there's so many things to have to kind of reconcile here. We talked about how Estee Lauder would want to add to its fragrance line to widen that portfolio. But the thing about Pooj is that it also operates, as you mentioned, Carolina Herrera, Nina Ricci, these are all fashion brands. They present collections during the Paris Fashion Week is that something Estee Lauder wants to get into or is that that's something that Estee Lauder might, I don't know, divest, or would that be part of the acquisition?

[Clara Lizaraga]

I think it would because so in essence, the food strategy has been to buy brands. They, they make fashion, but they also create this image around the, the brand and then thanks to that, they sell the fragrances. So it sort of goes together and it's hard to separate the fashion from the fragrance. I think in that sense it would be complementary to Estee Lauder. I guess the question is PUJ also has a smaller part of their business that's called niche brands. So things like Byredo, another one called. And these are much smaller brands with higher price, higher prices that the company's been wanting to scale, but they currently account for roughly 10 to 15% of revenues, according to analysts. So that's something that would be interesting to Estee Lauder. There are questions about really how much can that grow? And well, would they want all of these kinds of fragrances or only certain brands?

[Paul (Podcast Host)]

Is there any regulatory concern here about this deal getting approved?

[Clara Lizaraga]

There's some concerns on the makeup side. So Poo Jones, Charlotte Tilbury, which I believe is the third largest makeup brand in the US and so there could be, there could be issues on that front. But on the fragrance grains front, I think it's there's not a problem.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Stay with us. More from Bloomberg Intelligence coming up after this.

[Paul (Podcast Host)]

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[Paul (Podcast Host)]

One of the things that the Bloomberg Intelligence folks are looking at is gaming out a recession scenario that may be a little bit more on the front burner now with what's happening in Iran. And one of those industries that you really have to be on the outlook for should the economy soften is the U.S. auto business. And Steve Mann joins us here, Global autos and industrials research analysts for Bloomberg Intelligence joining us live here in our Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio. So Steve, I mean the auto business, I mean cyclical business, but also one that's undergoing a profound transformation trying to make this transformation to electric vehicles. Probably not a lot of spare capital lining around the cushion during if the economy were to soften. How do you guys think about it?

[Steve Mann]

Well, yeah, the industry did take a lot of write offs because, you know, the EV sales are not going to be what it expected, especially in the US and we were actually coming into 2026 relatively positive for the auto, the big Detroit, big three because Trump eliminated, you know, the penalties on gas guzzlers. We thought, you know, they're going to, you know, these automakers are going to push out These pickup trucks, SUVs with high margins and that's how we Came in looking at the industry at the beginning of 2026, been in this, the war broke out. Right. And gas prices are at where they're at. If you talk to the people that actually buy and sell gas, oil, it's like 150 bucks right on the ground. So it's going to, it's having a huge impact. Gasoline prices are up 30, 40% where I'm at.

[Paul (Podcast Host)]

Yep.

[Steve Mann]

So now the talk is, you know, are they going to sell that many pickup trucks and SUVs? Yeah.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Especially with interest rates rising. That means auto loans also become more expensive for consumers. But people will still need cars and they will still need to upgrade or replace their aging vehicles. Where does that leave the automakers? I mean, do people go to secondhand cars? Do they take another look at hybrids and EVs in this environment?

[Steve Mann]

I think it's a combination of both. The, the third thing that could happen is they keep their cars a little bit longer. You know, that's going to benefit companies like O'Reilly Autozone that actually sells aftermarket parts. You know, a lot of, a lot of consumers, especially in this key economy, those are looking, who are looking for value. And affordable vehicles will, will hold off, you know, even if interest rates are lower. You know, they, they want to make sure, you know, the jobs are stable. And before they spend 20, 30, $40,000.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

How much is a new car again? On average?

[Steve Mann]

Average is 50,000. Yeah.

[Paul (Podcast Host)]

And I'll tell you, my boy Joe is used car. His car repair shop in Manasquan, his lot is packed, man. I mean, he's got more business he knows what to do with. So that goes to your point. Yeah, people are keeping the cars longer. You know, if we get higher for longer fuel prices, does that revive maybe some demand in EVs and hybrids?

[Steve Mann]

It might look. We actually looked at what the worst case scenario is. We looked at past oil shock all the way back to the Iranian revolution back in the 70s. And we're coming up with, okay, worst case. Sales in the US could drop as much as 15% now. The pie is shrinking. But even within that pie, the split is changing, definitely. I think it's no surprise if oil prices are high. It has happened in the past. People will be more interested in hybrids and this time around, battery EVs as well.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Stay with us. More from Bloomberg Intelligence coming up after this.

[Paul (Podcast Host)]

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[Paul (Podcast Host)]

One of the issues from an M and A perspective with the second Trump administration is this is going to be a very good time to get M and A done. The regulation, the regulators, whether it be the Federal Trade Commission, Department of Justice, maybe be more accommodative. And that was certainly the expectation. And I, from what I understand, that's turning out to be the truth. And we want to focus on one particular deal because it's a deal that I'm very familiar with, having covered the media industry for a while and that is nextstar Big TV station owner buying Tegna Another big TV station owner, Jennifer Reed, joins us. She's senior litigation analyst for Bloomberg Intelligence, joining Us live here in our studio. So as I understand it, nexstar, again, a huge owner of TV stations across the country, hundreds of them, closed its purchase of Tegna, which are the old TV stations owned by Gannett Co. The newspaper company that closed. Yes, from the regulators like the Federal Communication Commission, the Justice Department, bless the deal as people thought they would.

[Jennifer Reed]

That's right.

[Paul (Podcast Host)]

That's this administration. But there's still some suits going on. What's going on with that?

[Jennifer Reed]

Right. So that expectation that the Department of Justice and Federal Communications Commission would go ahead and allow that deal to go forward, I think ramped up a group of states to be ready to try to go after this deal. And it's because the states have been saying, many states have been saying, and not just Democratic state attorneys general, but in a bipartisan way. The states have been saying, if this administration lacks antitrust enforcement, if they start allowing a lot of consolidation across many industries, we're going to pick up the slack because states have the right to enforce federal antitrust laws and they have the right to go after a merger that they believe is unlawful under the antitrust laws, just as the Department of Justice or Federal Trade Commission do. So that's what we're seeing here. You have eight states that have said this wasn't right for different reasons. FCC approval was improper for certain reasons. The Department of Justice clearance was improper for other reasons. And we're going to go ahead and go to court to try to see what we can do here.

[Paul (Podcast Host)]

I've been doing this media m and a thing for a long time. I've never really seen this before. I'm sure it's been out there. So this is basically the state saying, for whatever reason, the federal government from our perspective, from our point of view, is not as strong a regulator as it needs to be. Therefore, we're going to pick up the slack and do it from a state level.

[Jennifer Reed]

Yes.

[Paul (Podcast Host)]

Have we seen this before?

[Jennifer Reed]

Not a lot. Normally the states are sort of aligned with the Department of Justice or any of these agencies that are reviewing a deal. We have one example from several years ago when T Mobile and Sprint merged, they settled with the Department of Justice, they divested some assets to Dish, and the Department of Justice went ahead and cleared the deal. The FCC cleared the deal and the states went to court. A group of states, I don't remember exactly how many. I think it might have been around 10, went to court to try to block that deal. And, you know, a lot of people would say, and I'll say in this case too for nexstar that once you have the federal regulators that have approved these deals, it is very difficult for the states to then go into court and convince a judge that the experts that cleared the deal were wrong. The states lost in the T Mobile Sprint effort. And you know, we don't know yet what's going to happen with nexstar, but they do go in with a tough case to make once the FCC and DOJ have approved, which they have.

[Paul (Podcast Host)]

So are they doing this, these states? And you say it's bipartisan. So it's not just Democratic states that maybe wanted to just go against this administration's regulatory policy.

[Jennifer Reed]

I think in this case it may simply be Democratic states that the ones that have sued nextar. We also have states that have are continuing litigation against Live Nation that originally the Department of Justice had joined them with was the lead plaintiff. The Department of Justice settled with one week of trial. The states on a bipartisan, in a bipartisan way have gone forward to continue that litigation. So we are seeing bipartisan efforts in that area with the nextar Tegna. I'd have to look at those eight states to see the attorney generals, whether they are Democrats or Republicans.

[Paul (Podcast Host)]

If your nexstar, you close this deal, you pay Tegna the money.

[Jennifer Reed]

Yes.

[Paul (Podcast Host)]

Is there any risk to nextar that somebody, some judge could say you got to unwind this thing?

[Jennifer Reed]

I think that risk is low. I think actually getting an order saying you must unwind this is low. If there's some kind of a liability decision yet this deal was anti competitive, my guess would be the more likely outcome would be some divestitures of stations, which is honestly what I thought would have happened with this deal with the Department of Justice to start if it had followed kind of its long standing traditional with respect to TV broadcaster deals. Usually the Department of Justice would ask these companies, including nexstar, which has divested all sorts of stations doing deals in the past to divest in a local area called a dma. In this case, to divest if they would own more than one of the local affiliates of the big four, which are NBC, cbs, Fox, abc.

[Paul (Podcast Host)]

And that rule today, having done a million broadcasting M and A deals in my life seems so antiquated today. It was antiquated 20 years ago, but now with all this streaming and I mean it's like, who cares?

[Jennifer Reed]

Well, that's the argument that defendants will make and that's what the Federal Communications said Commission said in part in approving this deal. But I will say that There was an 8th Circuit decision about the FCC's. Every four years it reviews its rules about its review of its rules. And that narrow market definition focused on those broadcast stations in the big four was challenged, and the 8th Circuit didn't reject that. They rejected rules changes for different reasons, but not because of that market definition. And the thing is, Paul, I know viewership has changed radically, right, in the last 10, 20 years. You've got all the cord cutters. You have people who've never even heard of a cable subscription, but you still have a set of consumers that get those cable subscriptions or FiOS or whatever it is. They want those local stations, they want sports, they want the local programming they can get. And if you have a discrete set of consumers that could be harmed because prices go up, it can still be an antitrust harm.

[Paul (Podcast Host)]

Stay with us. More from Bloomberg Intelligence coming up after this. Support for the show comes from Public. Lately it feels like there are two types of investing platforms. Some are traditional brokerages that haven't changed much in decades, and others feel less like investing and more like a game. Public is positioned differently. It's an investing platform for people who are serious about building their wealth on public. You can build a portfolio of stocks, options, bonds, crypto without all the bugs or the confetti. Retirement accounts? Yep. High Yield cash? Yes again. They even have direct indexing. Public has modern design, powerful tools and customer support that actually helps go to public.com market and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com market and paid for by

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[Cincinnati Insurance Representative]

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[Podcast Host/Announcer]

you're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live weekdays at 10am Eastern on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app Listen on demand, wherever you get your podcasts or watch us live on YouTube.

[Paul (Podcast Host)]

Switch gears. We'll go to health care, as we like to do. There's always news coming out of the health care business. There's always M and A trades, and this is no different. Pfizer trying to they've been working on a Lyme disease drug here and they recently had, I think they had a study. Didn't really impress too much. But I'll tell you, in this part of the country, Lyme disease is no joke. Boy, a lot of people get it debilitating.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Yeah. And it affects you for life.

[Paul (Podcast Host)]

Yep.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Even if you get over the worst of it in the first two years.

[Paul (Podcast Host)]

So there's just another area where you're kind of waiting for the great science of the pharmaceutical and biotech industry to come to the rescue. Sam Fazelli joins us, Bloomberg Intelligence Director of research for Global Industries and a senior pharma analyst for Bloomberg. So, Sam, what's going on with Pfizer? What's going on broadly with the this little niche field of Lyme disease, Lyme disease?

[Sam Fazelli]

Paul so all those farmers and folks who go out into fields have a risk of that? Of course, anyone who goes out into a, into a green space, I mean, you know, I've got a, got a bit of a garden. I'm sure you do. And those ticks, man, they do like your legs and anything that's nice and hidden in there to go and have a, have a bite at. And all your animals suffer from it, etc. So those animals can take drugs to prevent ticks, but there's really no such thing for humans. And I mean the vaccines have been around, but Lyme disease vaccine is something that would really be quite an attractive option for those who are at risk. The question is who would take a Lyme disease vaccine? But these guys had some data. It's Data from a vaccine that they're developing with a French partner called Valneva. It's been in development for a while. And I'm just reading the details here again off the screen on the Bloomberg terminal. 73% effective against the tick borne illness, which of course can be as bad as encephalitis and causing major then longer term issues. So the problem is 73%. I mean, you know, is that good enough these days? I mean, think about COVID Covid vaccines now on a background of people having lots of COVID infections are in the 50 to 60 to 70% range effective against hospitalization. Now that's on the background of lots of COVID infections. Here you're not, you're testing it literally against somebody having no immunity. So 73% is not particularly high. So it'd be very interesting to see what the regulators say about this.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Sam, I'm kind of confused. Why are there no current human vaccines for Lyme disease on the market? I mean, there was something I believe back in the late 1990s from GSK, but this seems like something that, that there's a real demand for efficacy.

[Sam Fazelli]

We need efficacy, we need the effectiveness. Sorry, in vaccine world, I've forgotten now all those years of writing about COVID you need vaccine effectiveness, which is how much does it protect you? How long does it protect you for? So this is something that, that I think would be interesting to see whether this result is better than what folks have been used to. But again, if you took this, you're only 3/4 of the way, let's say protected. And I'd like to see the data, how long does it last? Do you need another shot? Who takes this? I mean, do we want everybody? I mean people are hardly taking infectious disease vaccines where they can pick it up in the subway. Are they going to worry about this? Take this. Those are questions, right?

[Paul (Podcast Host)]

Hey Sam, the beginning of President Trump's second term, there really a lot of threats towards universities and maybe some of their medical research. Has that in fact come to fruition? Are funds being withheld? Are funds being pulled? Is that impacting university research?

[Sam Fazelli]

There has been some more uncertainty created funds not being released. There's been a lot of those situations arising. Of course, it's not just grants going to universities. It's also direct investments, for instance by the nih, which has a huge budget. NIH gives out grants accounts, but they also have research institutes, institute for this, institute for that. So there has been some effects. People are worried. The number of people seeking to do PhDs in the stem world has declined. I don't know what the latest statistic is, but it's definitely declined. And that's really not helpful because it is this foundation of science that then builds the future innovations, right? I don't think that. I don't think that's rocket science, right? So I don't know why this became such a big thing, but I'm wondering whether it was just noise and it was playing to the public and it's kind of eventually going to dissipate and go back to what it normally was. And of course Congress needs to get in there. We've seen, for instance, courts coming back saying what the HHS has done isn't right for vaccines, etc. So maybe this will happen here too.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

This is the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast, available on Apple, Spotify and anywhere else you get. Your podcasts listen live each weekday 10am to noon Eastern on Bloomberg.com, the iHeartRadio app, TuneIn, and the Bloomberg Business app. You can also watch us live Every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg Terminal.

[Cincinnati Insurance Representative]

If you follow markets, you know the value of long term thinking. You plan, you diversify, you prepare for volatility. But in life, even the best strategies can't prevent every bad day a fire, a loss, a disruption that demands immediate attention. When that happens, what matters isn't just what you planned, it's who shows up. That's where Cincinnati Insurance comes in. For more than 75 years, they've helped individuals and businesses navigate life's toughest moments with care, expertise and personal attention. Together with independent agents, Cincinnati Insurance focuses on relationships, not transactions. Their approach is grounded in experience, follow through and trust built over time. Bad days happen, and when they do, you deserve an insurance partner who understands risk, respects what you've built and is ready to help you move forward. The Cincinnati insurance companies Let them make your bad day better. Find an independent agent@cin fin.com.

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