Netflix Weighs Amending Warner Bros. Bid to Make It All Cash

Summary

Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast

Episode: Netflix Weighs Amending Warner Bros. Bid to Make It All Cash
Date: January 14, 2026
Hosts: Scarlett Fu and Paul Sweeney
Notable Analysts/Guests: Geeta, Alex, Mandeep Singh, Matt Boyle

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into key business stories shaping the markets, with a focus on the escalating bidding war between Netflix and Paramount Skydance over Warner Brothers Discovery. The hosts consult Bloomberg Intelligence analysts to explore the implications for investors and the broader media landscape. Other major topics include Meta’s major strategic pivot from the metaverse to AI, the competitive war for tech talent, and a special segment on how CEOs are preparing for a potential second Trump administration.

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1. Netflix’s Pursuit of Warner Bros.: All Cash Bid Consideration

[02:20 – 07:33]

Main Theme

Netflix's share price plunge amid its pursuit of Warner Bros. Discovery, the likelihood of an all-cash offer, and how this intensifies the competition with Paramount Skydance, whose own all-encompassing bid is facing skepticism.

Key Discussion Points

• Share Price Drop and Urgency:
  • Netflix shares have dropped ~25% since pursuing Warner Bros.
  • January 21 is a critical deadline due to Paramount Skydance’s $30/share tender offer for all of Warner Bros. (02:20)
• Investor Concerns and Offer Structure:
  • Warner shareholders are nervous about stock value volatility, prompting Netflix to mull an all-cash offer to “assuage investors.”
    • Geeta: “There has obviously been a lot of worries about that falling stock price and investors kinda questioning... what is the value?” (02:31)
• Escalating Bidding War:
  • Paramount Skydance is not expected to back down.
  • For Paramount, the deal is more critical than for Netflix; Netflix has a “strong financial profile.”
    • Geeta: “Paramount is in a very dire situation. They need these assets very, very badly. Not the case for Netflix...” (03:33)
• Differences in Bid Scope:
  • Paramount Skydance’s bid assumes the cable channels are worth zero and covers the entire company.
  • Netflix only wants the streaming and studio businesses.
    • Scarlett: “What does that say about Paramount Skydance’s own legacy cable business? ...does that mean its business is also worth something similar to zero?” (04:01)
  • Geeta notes both companies’ cable holdings still generate cash despite cord-cutting.
• Industry Impact and Strategic Moves:
  • “Melting ice cube” theory in cable networks—they’re in decline but still cash-flowing.
  • Warner Bros. plans to separate its global networks business by Q3 2026.

Notable Quotes

• Geeta: “This is really turning out to be very, very interesting. I think Warner Brothers still kinda sees a lot of value in its networks.” (04:29)
• Alex: “Not too long ago, Bank of America said this bidding war is reshaping the broader media industry. What are the consequences...?” (05:55)
• Geeta: “Linear networks are in a really precarious position... the biggest question is what happens with Comcast’s NBC Media Group—it’s the hidden jewel.” (06:10)
• Scarlett: “The last we heard, only about 2% of outstanding shares had been tendered. So shareholders still holding out for that sweetened offer.” (07:21)

Timestamps & Segments

• 02:20 – Netflix stock decline and urgency
• 02:31 – Investor worries and bid structure
• 03:18 – Paramount’s strategic situation
• 04:01 – Bid scope and impacts on cable valuations
• 05:55 – Broader industry consequences
• 06:58 – What’s next? Deadlines and shareholder sentiment

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2. Meta’s Reality Labs Layoffs & AI Pivot

[10:04 – 16:46]

Main Theme

Meta is scaling down Reality Labs (VR/Metaverse) and ramping up AI investment, with ramifications for tech sector spending, talent, and competition.

Key Discussion Points

• Layoffs and Financial Losses:
  • Meta (formerly Facebook) is cutting over 1,000 jobs from Reality Labs, which has lost ~$70 billion in 3 years.
    • Mandeep Singh: “Reality Lab segment is almost losing $20 billion a year, and cumulatively they've lost about $70 billion over the past three years.” (10:38)
  • The reduction is significant, but less than rumored (10% cut, not 30%).
• Strategic Shift to AI:
  • Meta prioritizing AI infrastructure and large language models (LLMs).
    • Goal: develop “AI agents” for daily tasks (travel, Uber, shopping).
    • Mandeep Singh: “What everyone is chasing right now is an AI agent that can book your travel, your Uber trip, order food, you know, do shopping for you. That's the vision Google is chasing... So Meta has that surface area with Instagram and WhatsApp.” (12:32)
  • Obstacles: Integration into mainstream devices; operator restrictions (especially from Apple/Google).
• Competition & Partnerships:
  • Apple-Google partnership for default agents seen as negative for Meta.
  • Distribution/control of operating systems is vital for success in AI services.
    • “Distribution really matters and operating system control really matters. So Meta is somewhat at a disadvantage...” (12:32)
• AI Talent War & Compute Access:
  • Big Tech companies attracting talent through compute power (infrastructure access).
  • Mandeep Singh: “Right now the talent is going to where the computers. If you don't have the compute, you just cannot attract the talent...” (15:07)
  • Nvidia’s move into foundational models is a sign of value shifting to infrastructure providers.
• Airbnb’s AI Strategy:
  • Hired Meta’s head of generative AI.
  • Focus on open-source LLMs to retain customer interface (away from relying on OpenAI/Gemini).
    • Mandeep Singh: “Brian Chesky has been quite vocal about using open source LLMs… He doesn’t want to give away his bookings interface to these LLMs...” (13:58)

Timestamps & Segments

• 10:04 – Meta layoffs context
• 10:38 – Financial impact and rationale
• 11:58 – Pivot to AI and industry landscape
• 13:44 – Airbnb AI strategy and competitive hires
• 15:07 – Tech talent wars and role of compute
• 15:46 – Early thoughts on Big Tech earnings (focus on Alphabet/Google, Oracle)

Notable Quotes

• Mandeep Singh: “If you’re hearing job cuts then... it’s going to be hard for [Meta] to show positive [earnings] revisions this year.” (16:00)
• Scarlett: “It feels like the counterpoint to an Alphabet, a Google that's doing really well is Oracle. We've seen it really fall from grace...” (16:46)

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3. CEO Strategies for a Potential Trump Second Term

[20:09 – 26:01]

Main Theme

Bloomberg’s Matt Boyle discusses his “CEO Playbook” for U.S. corporate leaders contending with the unpredictability of a second Trump presidency.

Key Discussion Points

• Cautious Engagement:
  • Most CEOs and trade groups avoid public commentary on Trump due to risks and unpredictability.
    • Matt Boyle: “The usual sort of voices of corporate America... just don't want to go there. It’s the third rail.” (20:39)
• Direct Access Matters:
  • CEOs with clout (e.g., Jamie Dimon, Exxon’s CEO, Nvidia’s Jensen Huang) more willing to push back or influence.
    • Matt Boyle: “Jensen... went on Joe Rogan in December and said Trump is extraordinarily accessible.” (22:30)
  • Trump often reachable directly by mobile phone—unique White House dynamic.
• Navigating Favor and Influence:
  • CEOs sometimes curry favor with personal gestures or gifts (“trinkets and trophies”).
    • Matt Boyle: “He does respond to these types of trinkets and trophies. As we've seen with the Apple CEO, Tim Cook...” (24:09)
• Second Term Differences:
  • Trump is more “unshackled” with fewer traditional Republican moderates, requiring CEOs to be more proactive and direct.
    • Matt Boyle: “Now it’s just all true believers. So he’s sort of unfettered, he’s unshackled, and there’s not many checks.” (23:18)
• Corporate Silence—Risks and Realities:
  • CEOs often see “no upside” in public engagement about Trump, but the environment is so changeable that silence may soon be riskier than speaking out.
    • Matt Boyle: “The chaos is no longer in the background. The chaos is baked in. It’s in the system. It’s coming for them.” (25:54)

Notable Quotes

• Scarlett (on CEO access): “Direct engagement does seem to pay off if you can find your way to the President’s mobile phone, which apparently he hands out pretty willingly...” (22:10)
• Matt Boyle: “Everything is a transaction with this president.” (24:55)
• Scarlett (on CEO readiness): “It feels in many ways like those who know how to navigate governments in emerging markets might be better positioned.” (25:54)
• Matt Boyle: “Exactly, of that sort of slightly more chaotic, slightly more freewheeling environments. And many of these big multinationals, of course, do operate in those areas.” (26:01)

Timestamps & Segments

• 20:09 – CEO playbook reporting insights
• 21:07 – CEOs pushing back and consequences
• 22:10 – Direct access strategies
• 23:18 – Differences in Trump’s second term, corporate strategy
• 24:09 – Gifts/favors as influence
• 25:54 – CEO rationale for silence; navigating chaos

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4. Brief Roundup: Key Tech & Earnings Themes

[16:00 – 16:46]

• Alphabet (Google) best positioned for positive earnings surprises due to efficiency and improved AI perception.
• Market skepticism toward long-term, unproven revenue streams (e.g., Oracle’s guidance)—calls for demonstration of near-term ROI for AI projects.

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5. Memorable Moments & Quotes

• Scarlett Fu (on Paramount cable valuation): “What does that say about Paramount Skydance’s own legacy cable business? ...does that mean its business is also worth something similar to zero?” (04:01)
• Alex (on CEO navigation): “Shackles is a fantastic word.” (23:58)
• Scarlett (on Trump approach): “Free range Trump.” (24:00)
• Matt Boyle (on corporate engagement): “Everything is a transaction with this president.” (24:55)

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Summary: Why This Episode Matters

• The Netflix–Paramount–Warner Bros. drama is reshaping industry M&A, forcing companies to re-think the value of legacy assets and the role of streaming.
• Big Tech’s pivot from metaverse hype to real-world AI products marks another critical inflection for investment, earnings, and talent.
• The “CEO Playbook to navigating Trump” provides insights into crisis management, influence strategies, and how U.S. business leaders are planning for a uniquely unpredictable policy environment in an election year.

Listeners gain a comprehensive view of shifting strategic priorities in media, technology, and the C-suite, informed by market analysis and candid industry commentary.

Transcript

[Scarlett]

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[Scarlett]

Netflix shares are down about 25% since they began pursuing Warner Brothers in in October. So is Netflix in a race against time here?

[Geeta]

I think so, Scarlett. I mean, you know, there has obviously been a lot of worries about that falling stock price and investors kind of questioning okay, so really what is the value, right? If that's an 8515 split for Warner Studio and streaming assets? I mean Warner shareholders obviously very worried about the falling value of, you know, the Netflix stock. And so obviously Netflix you're really trying to assuage those investors by making it an all cash offer. But yes, they are, you know, very much running against the clock. There is that the January 21 deadline from a rival Paramount Skydance for tendering shares at $30 for all of Warner Brothers Discovery. So there are multiple things going on here, but this definitely should spark some sort of response, we think from Paramount.

[Alex]

Geeta, it feels like we're getting one escalation after the other in this bidding war. Do you think that proposing an all cash offer could actually expedite, expedite the closing of this deal by Netflix or do you expect that Paramount will fight back again?

[Geeta]

We definitely think that Paramount will fight back because for them the cost of not doing the deal is definitely greater than it is for Netflix. Paramount is in a very dire situation. They need these assets very, very badly. Not the case for Netflix, which has a really strong financial profile, has a really strong content library. This is really more of a nice to have rather than a must have. Expect, definitely expect something from Paramount Skydance. We don't expect them to go away quietly.

[Scarlett]

We don't expect them to go away quietly. But there's a real question mark here because Paramount Skydance is bid for Warner Brothers Discovery assumes that the value of the legacy cable channels is zero. And of course its bid covers the entire company, whereas Netflix is only looking for the streaming in the studio business. Yet what does that say about Paramount Skydance's own legacy cable business? Zero. I mean, does that mean that its business is also worth something similar to zero?

[Geeta]

I mean, that's just such a brilliant point that you raised, Scarlett. Absolutely. I mean, when they, you know, basically devalue the Warner Brothers assets, they, they risk doing the same for their own cable networks. But there is, you know, there's absolutely no way to sugarcoat the fact that the cable network business is a declining business. What Paramount is doing to its, you know, kind of favoring its argument is basically using the, the poor stock performance of Versant, which is the cable network group from or the cable network spinoff from Comcast. Its poor performance is kind of the reason, their justification for why the Warner Brothers legacy network should not really be worth much. But I still think, you know, obviously there is still, yes, there is cord cutting, yes, advertising is under pressure, but they are still cash cows. They still do throw out a good amount of cash. And that is true both for Warner Brothers as well as for Paramount. And obviously Paramount still sees a lot of rationale in kind of combining those two portfolios. Paramount's own cable networks along with Warner's to kind of just stem that whole melting ice cube argument. That said. Yeah, it's, it's, this is, this is really turning out to be, you know, very, very interesting. I think Warner Brothers still kind of sees a lot of value in its networks. They do want, you know, that the separation, they think they can extract a lot more value with a separation of their global networks business, which is supposed to happen by the third quarter of, of this year. So again, it's still a wait and watch. But I think at this point, Scarlett, the ball is definitely in Paramount Court.

[Alex]

Geetha, not too long ago, bank of America said that this bidding war is reshaping the broader media industry. What are the consequences of it for the broader media industry, do you think? And what kind of precedent does it set for future media company acquisitions?

[Geeta]

Yeah, absolutely, Alex. I think one of the things, one of our key takeaways from this, this whole exercise is that, you know, obviously linear networks are in a really precarious position. No doubt about that. Then the studio assets as well as the streaming platforms, the content generation part of it, there's still quite a lot of value in those. So any of you know, the studios that you see out there, whether it's Alliance Gate or, you know, maybe even an AMC Networks, which has a television production studio, maybe all of that still has some value. But I think really the biggest question for us, and I think for media investors at large, is what happens with Comcast and what happens with its NBC Media Group. That really is somewhat of, you know, this hidden jewel. I would say they have to extract value for that. They probably have to spin off that asset. So I think everybody is really super focused on what they do next.

[Scarlett]

Okay, so in terms of what happens next, we are waiting to see if Netflix actually does revise the term of its offer to something that's all cash. And then on the Paramount Skydance side, you said the deadline is coming up for the tender offer. When is that exactly?

[Geeta]

January 21st.

[Scarlett]

January. So next Wednesday we'll get a sense of whether shareholders are in favor of it. And what do we think? Is the reception right now?

[Geeta]

Very, very poor. The last we heard, only about 2% of outstanding shares had been tendered. So really, shareholders still kind of holding out for that sweetened offer.

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[Scarlett]

Some big news out of Big Tech this week when it comes to jobs as well.

[Alex]

Yeah, layoffs from meta platforms. It is beginning to cut more than a thousand jobs from the company's Reality Labs division, part of its plan to redirect resources from virtual reality and Metaverse products, which is really, really interesting given the fact that it invested so much into this endeavor, even changed its name accordingly. And we have with us Mandeep Singh, Global Tech Research, Head of Bloomberg Intelligence to discuss this. Mandeep, what does this all mean for Meta's bottom line? What are these jobs cut?

[Mandeep Singh]

Job cuts do I mean, Reality Lab segment is almost losing $20 billion a year, and cumulatively they've lost about $70 billion over the past three years. So a lot of investors questioned, you know, how long they were expected to remain patient on those kind of losses. And I think the initial rumors were about a 30% cut in that unit. So this is somewhat below expectations in terms of 10% job cut. But it just goes to show that right now the company is obviously focused more on the AI side in terms of building the infrastructure, building their own large language model. And it may take a while to really bring that LLM concept in that variables or whether it's a VR headsets or the glasses. When you compare VR headsets or the glasses that they are selling to, let's say, AirPods, the number of units pale in comparison. You're talking, you know, 10 million, maybe they do 20 million. Apple does more than 100 million AirPods a year. So what's the opportunity here? And I think that's where you probably will see more cuts in that business.

[Scarlett]

That is a really, really important contrast to make there in terms of what Matter is trying to do, because they want to be part of the mass market here, but it's not quite there yet. Mandeep, as Metta pivots away from VR in the metaverse to AI, what does that mean for spending? I mean, they obviously had to spend a lot to build out the metaverse, to build out their VR offerings. And now they're going to shift everything to building out the AI offerings, the large language models, these AI glasses. What do you think that the pace of spending will just kind of continue? It won't really shift all that much.

[Mandeep Singh]

Yes. On the air side, the opportunity is huge. What everyone is chasing right now is an AI agent that can book your travel, your Uber trip, order food, you know, do shopping for you. That's the vision Google is chasing. That's what Amazon Alexa launch was all about. So Meta has that surface area with, you know, Instagram and WhatsApp. And you could argue they could in theory develop such an agent, but the hard part is integration and getting the AI to where it's, you know, reliable and predictable. And that's where, I mean, it's anybody's guess who is best positioned. I think the Apple Google partnership that we saw this week is probably a negative for matter in the sense. Like if Apple is setting up defaults in their phone, then that makes it hard for an external kind of agent to do these kind of things. So from that perspective, distribution really matters and operating system control really matters. So Meta is somewhat at a disadvantage when it comes to, you know, their distribution on Apple and Android devices.

[Alex]

Mandeep we also got news today that Airbnb hired Meta's head of generative AI, which is really interesting because wasn't it not too long ago that they declined to work with open AI? What does this all mean for its artificial intelligence endeavors?

[Mandeep Singh]

Yeah, I think Brian Chesky has been quite vocal about using open source LLMs as opposed to, you know, propriet proprietary LLMs like OpenAI and Gemini. And so his thing is I've got a direct customer traffic coming to my website. If I give away my bookings interface to these LLMs, then I'm losing that customer direct customer touch. And he doesn't want to do that. He instead wants to build his own LLM based on an open source model that's already out there. And that's where Meta has open sourced their model in the past. So it makes sense to have somebody from Meta come in and do something along those lines. Airbnb has been open to using Chinese open source models and building on top of that. So from that perspective, it's an interesting strategy that they are going ahead with in terms of using all kinds of open source and not just the US based model.

[Scarlett]

Who in the tech world is winning the talent war? Because it felt like for a long time OpenAI anthropic, they were picking up a lot of talent. Is that still the case?

[Mandeep Singh]

I mean, right now the talent is going to where the computers. If you don't have the compute, you just cannot attract the talent because these models need a lot of compute for training and you may be the smartest person, but if you don't have the computer, you can't test your idea.

[Scarlett]

Right?

[Mandeep Singh]

From that perspective, infrastructure build really matters, which is why Nvidia, even though they are the chip provider now, they launched their own foundational model in autos self driving. That just goes to show what compute can do, you know. And Nvidia is definitely moving up the stack. So it'll be interesting to see how many areas where they compete in with their own foundational model.

[Alex]

Mandeep we're early into the earnings season, but big tech results will be here before we know it. And obviously the bar is really high when it comes to what these companies are saying about how they're monetizing their heavy investments. Do you think that they'll live up to the expectations?

[Mandeep Singh]

I think right now you have to focus on where you will see positive earnings revisions. And given the capex investments are going up for this year, it's going to be hard to show, you know, positive revisions when it comes to earnings. Except for someone like Alphabet that really has seen a big shift in sentiment because one everyone realizes that their models have caught up and they also are the most efficient when it comes to their stack, the use of TPUs and low cost inferencing. So from that perspective I think Alphabet clearly is best positioned to deliver positive surprises. But for someone like Meta, I mean if you're hearing job cuts then you know, probably it's going to be hard for them to, you know, show positive revisions this year.

[Scarlett]

And I feel like the counterpoint to an Alphabet, a Google that's doing really well is Oracle. We've seen it really far from grace of it and I wonder how critical investors are going to be when they hear from the company this earnings season.

[Mandeep Singh]

Well, they will have to give proof points of the build out the open air backlog that they have and how that translates into revenue because the good thing is market is skeptical of really far out revenue streams. And so from that perspective this is quite healthy that there was a correction in Oracle. Even though they have given a four or five year revenue guide and they have the backlog, market doesn't believe it. The market wants to see more proof points. So I think that's what companies will have to do when it comes to OpenAI monetization and ROI. They'll have to start showing more tangible proof points.

[Scarlett]

Stay with us. More from Bloomberg Intelligence coming up after this.

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[Scarlett]

We are talking about the big take that Bloomberg has published today and it's called the CEO Playbook to navigating Trump. This is kind of the question of the President's second for your second four year term, how do you manage this president? And the answer is with, with difficulty because the rules kind of keep changing. Matt Boyle is one of the co authors of this story and Matt joins us now. Matt, and it was something that you had trouble reporting on insofar as a lot of people wouldn't talk to you.

[Matt Boyle]

Exactly. I mean the usual sort of voices of corporate America, the Chamber of Commerce, the Business Roundtable were just like, you know, we're going to take a pass on this one. And just about every CEO under the sun, you know, just they just don't want to go there. It's like the third rail. So it was challenging to report, but we had a lot of great conversations, let's say on background with those who are advising CEOs. And that led to our playbook here, the five rules for dealing with the Trump Madness.

[Alex]

Matt, we've seen a growing number of business leaders recently kind of push back more than usual on some of President Trump's policy proposals. We had Citi CFO this morning pushing back on the credit card cap. ExxonMobil CEO calling Venezuela an investable. Is this unusual and what might be the consequences for them?

[Matt Boyle]

Yeah, it takes a certain CEO to push back. It takes a Jamie Dimon or The CEO of ExxonMobil, who have the clout and the authority and the industry backing to say, no, this is actually not perhaps a good idea. But most of the time, as we saw with tariffs, it was happening behind the scenes. Remember, this is going back a ways, but when Trump told the Walmart CEO Doug McMillan to eat the tariffs, Walmart said nothing. And that was probably pretty wise. There was no reason to get into a public spat on Truth Social with Trump. But now maybe it's because Trump is in a different position 12 months later or it's the issues involved. You know, banking CEOs are very happy to go out against interest rate caps. But we are seeing in certain cases some CEOs push back. Yes.

[Scarlett]

And direct engagement does seem to pay off if you can find your way to the President's mobile phone, which apparently he hands out the number pretty willingly to certain top CEOs. You talk about Nvidia's Jensen Huang having a direct line to the President also Lip and Tam Lipboardam of Intel being able to do that as well.

[Matt Boyle]

Exactly. I mean, Jensen, you know, Nvidia CEO went on Joe Rogan in December and said Trump is extraordinarily accessible. The United Airlines CEO said the same thing to us. I mean, you can call this man up, he does answer his cell phone, as we've seen. Sometimes at 4:30 in the morning he will pick up his cell phone. But not everybody has Trump on speed dial. So a point of our story was that you have to find a way in, whether that's Susie Wiles, the Chief of staff, whether it's Scott Besson, treasury or Commerce, Howard Lutnick or one of the sort of lower level aides. Also, I mean, we found that, you know, the director of the White House Office of Public Liaison is somebody you can, you can go to also. So the point is to find a way in, no matter how you do it.

[Alex]

Matt, what are some of the differences in how President Trump deals with business leaders in his second term from his first term?

[Matt Boyle]

Well, the second term he's a little bit more unshackled. Let's say in the first term you had a few more traditional Republican voices. You know, you had Rex Tillerson in there and other folks who were able to Maybe play a little defense. They were able to slow walk some of Trump's more outrageous policy proposals. Now it's just all true believers. So he's sort of unfettered, he's unshackled, and there's really not many checks. So what this means for CEOs is, yeah, they really can't hide. They can't just say, well, we'll let our industry association take care of this or don't worry. I mean, look at just the past week what's been going on. CEOs really need to be on watch.

[Alex]

Yeah, shackles is a fantastic word.

[Scarlett]

Free range Trump.

[Matt Boyle]

Right, There we go.

[Scarlett]

The other thing that you could do if you're trying to get his attention or curry favor, is to give him a made up award.

[Matt Boyle]

Yes, he does respond to these types of trinkets and trophies. As we've seen with the Apple CEO, Tim Cook was able to give him this sort of glass, you know, trophy with a 24 karat gold base or something, you know, with the Apple logo on it. And guess what? It was over tariffs. And Cook and Apple were looking for some relief on foreign microchip tariffs and that helped. It also helped though that Cook had really put in the work though, talking to Trump for years now, going back to the first administration. So you can't just sort of throw a trophy at him. But it does take some groundwork as well. But look at the Swiss business executives also giving him a gold Rolex. And so these things do tend to have an impact. As we say, everything is a transaction with this president.

[Alex]

Matt, you mentioned it's been difficult getting people to speak to you for this story. Did any of the business leaders you spoke to give you reasoning for why they might be afraid to talk? Or did they kind of just brush you off?

[Matt Boyle]

It's, I mean, many brushed us off through their gatekeepers. They just, the thing is they just don't see much upside. They don't want to be the one CEO talking to any reporter on the record. But as we've seen now, maybe we might see some more come out of the woodwork now that diamond and others are talking about, you know, the interest rates. The defense companies also might have something to say about Trump pressuring them to, you know, to up their game. So we'll see. But it's that, you know, CEOs again, it's that they might be speaking out on certain issues, but when it comes to Trump, again, they just fail to see the upside. But at this point, as we say, or it was a Yale School of Management person wrote today in Bloomberg Opinion. The chaos is not just no longer in the background. The chaos is baked in. It's in the system. It's coming for them. So they might want us talk and sit down.

[Scarlett]

Yeah, it's front and center. And it feels in many ways like those who know how to navigate governments and emerging markets might be better positioned.

[Matt Boyle]

To have that experience exactly, of that sort of slightly more chaotic, slightly more freewheeling environments. And many of these big multinationals, of course, do operate in those areas.

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