Private Equity Selling Their Equity, TD's Billion Dollar Scam

Summary

Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast — Episode Summary

Episode Title: Private Equity Selling Their Equity, TD's Billion Dollar Scam
Date: March 19, 2025
Hosts: Scarlet Fu and Paul Sweeney
Guests: Claire Beck (Bloomberg News), Shelby Magid (Atlantic Council), David Verakis (Bloomberg Law)

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Episode Overview

This episode explores two major financial stories: the creative strategies private equity firms are using to realize returns amid a sluggish exit market, and the details behind TD Bank’s $3.1B money-laundering scandal. The hosts are joined by subject matter experts for each segment, delivering analysis, background, and implications of these headline-grabbing events. The episode also provides insights into US-Russia-Ukraine ceasefire negotiations, featuring a conversation with Shelby Magid on the evolving diplomatic situation.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Private Equity Exit Strategies in a Frozen Market

Guest: Claire Beck, Bloomberg News Senior Reporter
Segment Start: [01:41]

• The Exit Dilemma:
  Private equity (PE) firms are struggling to offload their stakes in portfolio companies due to a stagnant IPO and M&A market. Rather than traditional exits, PE firms are increasingly relying on "dividend recapitalizations" (recaps)—taking on new debt at portfolio companies and paying themselves dividends to generate returns.

  "There's a bit of sign of life, but it's nowhere near where they wanted it to be... They're having to get creative and do other types of deals in order to try and show some returns to shareholders."
  —Claire Beck [02:07]

• Dividend Recaps Explained:
  There’s a surge in dividend recaps and debt refinancing. Credit markets are “hot,” with record inflows into funds eager to find yield, providing PE sponsors with ample opportunity to leverage their companies further—even if this increases risk.

  "They're adding down to companies and taking out in the form of dividends. This is something that investors traditionally don't like because obviously you're piling leverage onto a company and it's something that's usually a no go. But because the debt markets are so hot at the moment, they're like, yeah, this is great."
  —Claire Beck [02:46]

• Market Volatility & Investor Concerns:
  While some mega deals (Walgreen Boots LBO) are proceeding, deal flow remains thin. Investors are reluctantly participating, attracted by the opportunity to invest, even if returns are diminished and leverage increases.

  "Investors are...holding their noses and buying in. Basically, this isn't the type of deals that they would have liked...but it is an opportunity to invest more money."
  —Claire Beck [04:20]

• Returns on Dividend Recaps:
  Returns vary—some sponsors are simply recovering their initial investment, others gain a substantial profit. Example cited: Clarios’ $4.5B debt raise delivered a 1.5x return on their equity.

  "Clarios...raised 4.5 billion of debt and they took all of it out as a dividend and they got one and a half times return on their equity."
  —Claire Beck [05:53]

2. US–Russia–Ukraine Ceasefire Negotiations

Guest: Shelby Magid, Deputy Director, Atlantic Council Eurasia Center
Segment Start: [07:31]

• Ceasefire Developments & Skepticism:
  Following calls between US President Trump and Russian President Putin, a limited, energy-focused ceasefire was discussed, but Russia immediately violated it with drone attacks on Ukrainian infrastructure.

  "President Trump yesterday said...that there was an immediate limited agreement for a ceasefire and that would cover energy...Russia immediately violated it."
  —Shelby Magid [08:46]

• Leverage and Potential Dynamics:
  The US maintains significant leverage, but Shelby notes that both sides are maneuvering. The White House remains engaged with Ukraine; additional sanctions are being considered.

  "Trump also threatened recently that there's still more leverage and pressure that he can put against Russia...there is more economic pressure that we can do with increased sanctions."
  —Shelby Magid [10:01]

• Ukraine’s Position & European Role:
  Zelensky expected to push back on Russian “maximalist demands” and push for continued US and European support. Europe, particularly Germany, is increasing its support, but may not participate directly in ceasefire negotiations.

  "Europe really stepped up their commitment and their action...we see movements about this idea of a coalition of the willing...we see more commitments on European defence..."
  —Shelby Magid [13:35]

• Trust in Putin?:
  Shelby is critical of the suggestion to “trust Putin,” pointing to hundreds of past ceasefire violations.

  "The history is that you should never take Putin at his word...Russia has violated ceasefire agreements...I think it's between 100, 200 times over the Minsk agreements."
  —Shelby Magid [12:01]

3. TD Bank's Billion-Dollar Money Laundering Scandal

Guest: David Verakis, Bloomberg Law Reporter
Segment Start: [16:50]

• Scandal Overview:
  TD Bank pleaded guilty to conspiracy to commit money laundering, paying $3.1B in fines. After rapid US expansion, the bank failed to scale its anti-money-laundering (AML) systems—overlooking basic controls and ignoring red flags.

  "TD bank failed to implement basic money laundering controls that all banks are required to use so that criminals cannot wash money...into the financial system."
  —David Verakis [17:20]

• How It Happened:
  A money-laundering syndicate led by David C. exploited TD’s lax controls, bribing tellers and evading currency transaction reports (CTRs) meant to flag large deposits. TD failed to file accurate/required CTRs in hundreds of cases, allowing criminals to launder over $500M.

  "[The] controls at TD bank were the most lax of any of the banks that he used...he was able to bribe tellers to be able to put large sacks of cash into the bank."
  —David Verakis [18:31]

  "In hundreds of instances, TD bank did not file accurate currency transaction reports...and so that allowed SEAS organization to launder more than $500 million..."
  —David Verakis [18:31]

• Consequences:
  More than two dozen defendants charged, including bank insiders; David C. has pleaded guilty and awaits sentencing.

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Memorable Quotes

• On PE Market Creativity:
  "They're having to get creative and do other types of deals in order to try and show some returns..."
  —Claire Beck [02:07]

• On Trusting Putin:
  "The history is that you should never take Putin at his word."
  —Shelby Magid [12:01]

• On TD Bank’s AML Failure:
  "TD bank failed to implement basic money laundering controls that all banks are required to use."
  —David Verakis [17:20]

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Notable Timestamps

• [01:41] – Private Equity's struggle to exit positions and the rise of dividend recaps
• [05:53] – Specific returns and risks of dividend recap deals
• [07:31] – Breakdown of recent US–Russia–Ukraine ceasefire discussions
• [10:01] – US and European leverage points in negotiations
• [12:01] – Dangers of trusting Russian overtures and history of violated ceasefires
• [16:50] – TD Bank scandal background and system failures
• [18:31] – Details of how money laundering was enabled through weak bank controls
• [21:26] – Legal and criminal fallout from the TD Bank case

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Conclusion

This episode provides a robust analysis of high-stakes financial news—how private equity firms are maneuvering in a restricted exit environment and the deep-rooted risks this poses, as well as a detailed expose of TD Bank's compliance failures resulting in a multibillion-dollar scandal. The segment on Ukraine rounds out the show by highlighting the fluidity and fragility of current geopolitics, bringing in expert opinions from the front lines of economic and diplomatic developments.

Transcript

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[Host/Interviewer]

News.

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[Host/Interviewer]

One story that caught my eye today actually had to do with private equity firms and private equity firms getting rid of their equity and the liquidity in the market. Always a big question, but even more so now as the IPO market in the M and A market kind of goes nowhere fast. Claire Rutkin is a Bloomberg News senior reporter and she joins us on in this story. Claire we are kind of waiting for the private equity guys to like offload all their stakes and companies. This is that happening?

[Claire Beck]

It's not happening at the moment. There's a bit of sign of life, but it's not it's nowhere near where they wanted it to be. And so because it's nowhere near where they wanted it to be, they're having to get creative and do other types of deals in order to try and show some returns to shareholders. And that's by dividends. They're loading their portfolio companies with debts and they're taking it out as a dividend to show some sort of distribution.

[Co-Host/Commentator]

What are the lenders saying here? Because I mean, you know, this is a dividend recap. That's what we used to call it back in the day here. And that's not the type of loan that you generally like to make, but it seems like lenders are willing to step up here.

[Claire Beck]

Yeah. So we're still calling it dividend recaps. They're happening quite a lot. If you look at like where del flow is coming from. You've got a lot of like refinancing of, of existing debt and then you've also got these dividends now happening. It's like the next stage on because the debt markets are so hot. So there's been a record level of inflows into credit funds and collateralized loan obligations, which are the biggest buyers of, of loans and they're desperate to put their money to work. And because there's been a lack of M and A and a lack of like new places to put this money, sponsors have been able to get creative. That's private equity firms and they are doing dividend recaps. So they're adding down to companies and taking out in the form of dividends. And this is something that investors traditionally don't like because obviously you're piling leverage onto a company and it's something that's usually a no go. But because the debt markets are so hot at the moment, they're like, yeah, this is great. It's a new place to, you know, put new capital. And so they're giving the go ahead to them basically. So we have seen quite a bit of volatility hit the market at the moment because of Trump and tariffs and deals are starting to get pulled, but the ones that are not the dividend recaps.

[Host/Interviewer]

So usually when we talk to private equity guys, they're like, look like you're locking in your money. 5, 7, 10 years. It's going to be fine. We can manage any sort of big swings in volatility. Does that still ring true or are we seeing some issues here? When liquidity tightens up, it gets harder and harder to find ways around it.

[Claire Beck]

Yeah, that's right. They are having some difficulties. They're having, having difficulties showing those exits. So whether it's by the IPO market or the M and A market, they just haven't come back yet to the level that they would have wanted. We are seeing some deals happen. So Walgreen Boots was a massive deal. It's most probably one of the biggest LBO since the financial crisis and that's something that banks have piled into and they feel confident that they can sell down to investors. But those mega deals are few and far between. We might see some more deal flow happening in the second half, but it really, it's not where people would have wanted it to be. And therefore private equity firms are having to get creative and investors are, you know, holding their noses and buying in. Basically this isn't the type of deals that they would have liked. In essence, you are piling debt onto companies, you're increasing leverage, but it is an opportunity to invest more money and therefore they're doing it, even if that means that the existing debt is getting refinanced at a lower rate and therefore they're getting a lower return on their money.

[Co-Host/Commentator]

Claire, one of the, one of the key, key variables in these types of deals is what kind of return does the equity investor get paid here on this dividend. If I, you know, if this person, you know, investment firm put in a dollar and I loan them money for a dividend recap, do I value that dollar at a dollar, $1, $52, $3? Are they getting returns when they get these dividend recaps?

[Claire Beck]

It depends. It depends how much they're able to take out. I mean Clarios is, is one of the biggest, most recent examples. It's the biggest dividend recap that we've seen in a very long time. They took out, they raised 4.5 billion of debt and they took all of it out as a dividend and they got one and a half times return on their equity. And, and we are seeing other companies come back and they're issuing, you know, not just one dividend but it might be their second or their third time that they're doing this. So in some instances they're just getting their initial equity return or reducing the amount of equity that they have in the company. But in other instances, yeah, they're getting all the equity back, if not more. And the debt markets are allowing for that. They, they, there's a lot of money out there that needs to be invested, invested and this is a place where they can invest it. So there is a caveat. It has to be for most, probably a strong issuer, a well known company with a borrower that you know, that they know and a private LT sponsor that is liked.

[Host/Interviewer]

Really great reporting. It was such a great story. I recommend that everyone read it on the terminal there. Again, it's about private equity firms getting rid of their equity. Clara, thank you very much. Claire Beck and Bloomberg News senior reporter.

[Host/Producer]

You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch the program live weekdays at 10am Eastern on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station. Just say Alexa, play Bloomberg 1130.

[Host/Interviewer]

Well, later on today, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky will speak with US President Donald Trump for following Trump's conversation with Putin that lasted nearly two hours on a cease fire yesterday. Now, Steve Witkoff is a White House special envoy to the Middle east and he joined Bloomberg Surveillance this morning and when asked about a ceasefire between the two countries, he said it is very likely to happen.

[Co-Host/Commentator]

What was agreed between the two presidents was and it was at President Trump's suggestion that there be a cessation of attacks on energy infrastructure from both sides.

[Host/Producer]

And all, and civilian infrastructure for that matter.

[Co-Host/Commentator]

Also working towards a Black Sea moratorium on hits on on naval vessels and freighters carrying grain and things of that sort.

[Host/Producer]

And ultimately that would evolve into a full on cease fire.

[Host/Interviewer]

That was Steve Woodkoff, White House special envoy to the Middle East. Let's get more perspective on this with Shelby Magid, deputy director of Eurasia center at the Atlantic Council, joining us now on this. Lots of questions to unpack here, Shelby, but based on what we saw overnight in terms of some attacks, in terms of some attacks on energy infrastructure, what did you make of where the ceasefire is and where the reality is? Thank you.

[Shelby Magid]

And I'm glad you mentioned those attacks. And those are Russian attacks. Russia sent over 150 drones and hit Ukraine, including taking out the power in one city, hitting hospitals and other infrastructure. So what we're seeing is that President Trump yesterday said, and he posted on Truth Social that there was an immediate limited agreement for a ceasefire and that would cover energy. And I'm not sure how immediate that is because as we now see, Russia immediately violated it. They might say that this will be agreed on later looking at how to actually enact this and execute it in the talks in the Middle east with the US And Russia. But unfortunately, I do think Witkoff's assessment of the call and the situation is a bit optimistic, though we are moving in the direction where we could see a ceasefire, but it doesn't look like Putin's overall goals and demands have changed.

[Co-Host/Commentator]

Shelby, as we sit at this stage here, the US Slash Ukraine on one side and maybe, I don't know, Russia on the other, is there where's the leverage right now, do you think?

[Shelby Magid]

So, of course, the US has leverage, and we saw President Trump using that leverage against Ukraine, and that was a painful rollercoaster. But I think we're in an okay position there right now.

[Host/Producer]

But.

[Shelby Magid]

But Trump also threatened recently that there's still more leverage and pressure that he can put against Russia. There are. There is more economic pressure that we can do with increased sanctions. And I believe Senator Lindsey Graham also is preparing a package of legislation that could put that pain on Russia as well.

[Host/Interviewer]

What do you think the conversation is going to be later on today when Zelensky and Trump wind up having this phone conversation? In light of the last 24 hours.

[Shelby Magid]

I'm glad they're speaking. It's really important that Ukraine is not left out of this conversation, and it's great that President Trump is taking the time to speak to him immediately. I imagine that President Zelensky will point to the Kremlin's readout of the call, which differed from the White House readout. The Kremlin's readout reiterated many of these maximalist demands that Putin has that are red lines for Ukraine and truly would be existential threats to their security. So Zelenskyy will point to that. He'll talk about the damage that Ukraine saw overnight. But Zelensky will also, smartly, I hope, thank the US for the continued engagement and support and also talk about Ukraine's willingness and desire for peace, because as we've seen, Putin and Russia are the obstacle.

[Co-Host/Commentator]

So I guess just yesterday's call, some could read it as a disappointment that Russia did not agree to the cease fire as Ukraine has done. Do you read it that way?

[Shelby Magid]

I am not surprised. I am disappointed with everything that Russia does, frankly. But I read it as positive, neutral, or slightly positive on the US Side. And that is actually more important because we did not see President Trump move away from support for Ukraine. We did not see him bend too many of these demands from Putin. And on the Russian side, they're stalling for time. President Putin is very good at playing people, and so I hope that Trump does not get played well to that point.

[Host/Interviewer]

What was interesting is that Steve Woodkopf, the White House special envoy, said that we're going to trust Putin and take him at his word. What is the history in that happening?

[Shelby Magid]

The history is that you should never take Putin at his word. So again, as I said earlier, that's an optimistic take. Of course, you need to listen to what Putin is saying, but you also need to look at his actions. As for the history, Russia has violated ceasefire agreements with Ukraine, I don't know the exact number of times, but I think it's between 100, 200 times over the Minsk agreements. And they continuously act aggressively even after they say they won't and that they want peace, that they care about saving human lives. And Putin has shown he doesn't even care about the lives of his own soldiers.

[Co-Host/Commentator]

So I guess, you know, White House Special Envoy Witkoff did say that the cease fire could happen in a couple of weeks. Do you share that timeline view?

[Shelby Magid]

I think that could be realistic. It depends on what the US Continues to push on Russia. I do think that Putin and the Russians are hesitant to completely say no to Trump and risk hurting their warming relationship and angering him. So a cease fire, there's a lot to work out on the technicality side. Ukraine is not the hold up, so we'll have to see. But I think, I would say sooner than a couple of weeks does not seem likely, but a lot of discussions can happen in a couple of weeks. So maybe, maybe.

[Host/Interviewer]

It doesn't sound like you're particularly optimistic necessarily. What role, if I'm paraphrasing you, what role do you think that Europe will be playing in this? Because we make a lot of hay about Germany expanding its ability to, to reindustrialize and rearm, but all of that's going to take a while. In your estimation, what does that part of the story look like?

[Shelby Magid]

That's a good question, and you were right in your paraphrasing of me. I'm not overly optimistic, but I do feel better when I look at the European angle. I don't see a European role in the upcoming negotiations on the ceasefire, which I think is a mistake because they have a huge stake here. But what has been great is that while the catalyst was unfortunate, following the Oval Office blow up with Trump and Zelensky, Europe really stepped up their commitment and their action and we've seen a lot of progress and they're trying to do more than just words and meetings. So we see movements about this idea of a coalition of the willing that would be European forces to go in after a peace agreement. Of course, we're not there yet. We see more commitments on European defence and the moves in Germany are really important and, and this all adds up to signs and signals to Putin too. So I think it all is positive, but we might not see the immediate effect.

[Co-Host/Commentator]

All right, Shelby, thank you so much. Really appreciate getting your thoughts here. Shelby Magee, Deputy Director, Atlantic Council's Eurasia center.

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[Host/Interviewer]

We like to delve into the Big Take stories. They're deep, deep, deep reporting and digging onto the top financial, business and economic stories of our time. And the latest one today has to do with TD Securities, TD Bank, I should say, losing billions in a money laundering scam. It's complicated and we're here to help break it down for you. David Verakis is a Bloomberg Law reporter. David, can you just remind us as to what this story is actually about?

[David Verakis]

This is a major money laundering scandal involving TD bank after it did a large expansion in the United States and the bank pleaded guilty to conspiracy to commit money laundering in federal court in New Jersey last year and it paid a 3.1 billion dollar fine to various US agencies. What became clear and what our story is about is how TD bank failed to implement basic money laundering controls that all banks are required to use so that criminals cannot wash money, as they say, into the financial system.

[Co-Host/Commentator]

Well, I've learned all about this money laundering thing for various TV shows, you know, including Breaking Bad. That's where I get most of my.

[Host/Interviewer]

Knowledge is from, which is, you know, Breaking Bad's a fair.

[Co-Host/Commentator]

And I'll note that this happened in the great state of New Jersey. That's how we do it. That is how you do coincidence, folks. All right, so David, if you're Toronto Dominion, how did this happen? How did, how does this stuff like go undetected in such size like this?

[David Verakis]

Well, what happened was TD bank expanded rapidly over a decade and spent something like $20 billion to increase its footprint in the United States. And as it did that, it was also supposed to scale up its anti money laundering controls. However, it failed to do that and there were a lot of red flags along the way indicating that its system was not working and because of its cost cutting measures, it did not spend the money it needed to spend to make sure that criminals were not accessing its branches. And I would just say that the story really begins when we talk about a Chinese born businessman in Queens, New York named David C. Who had gotten into money laundering. And he, as part of his money laundering organization helped drug dealers put their money into the financial system. And through a series of tests he determined that the controls at TD bank were the most lax of any of the banks that he used. And so he was able to bribe tellers to be able to put large sacks of cash into the bank. And the bank was supposed to follow federal regulations to ask a lot more questions than they did. For instance, if someone wants to put more than $10,000 in cash into the bank, the bank is supposed to file a report called a currency transaction report which alerts the Treasury Department to this deposit. And in hundreds of instances, TD bank did not file accurate currency transaction reports about the deposits made by David C. And the people he was working with in this criminal enterprise. And so that allowed SEAS organization to launder more than $500 million. Even though the regulations were in place and the bank knew what it was supposed to do, it failed to do so. And more than two dozen people have now been criminally charged as a result of the investigation stemming from TD Bank. David C. Has pleaded guilty. He's awaiting sentencing and there's several bank insiders who've also been criminally charged by the Justice Department.

[Host/Interviewer]

All right, we really appreciate it. Thank you so much, David. David Reoccus, a Bloomberg legal reporter, joining us on that. Big take. Definitely check it out in the Bloomberg terminal. Also bloomberg.com big take the money laundering scams. The cost TD bank billions. Wow. That's something.

[Co-Host/Commentator]

You know, having learned about this on various television shows, it the hard part of being a criminal is laundering the money, I think. I mean, how do you take your all those, you know, singles and fives and tens and put them into a bank and write checks and do all that kind of stuff. ATM cards.

[Host/Interviewer]

Yeah, you know, it's tough stuff.

[Shelby Magid]

It's a lot of work.

[Host/Announcer]

Yeah, it's a lot of work.

[Co-Host/Commentator]

You need to do that.

[Host/Interviewer]

There you go.

[Host/Producer]

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